LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF
Monday, December 7, 1992
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
PRAYERS
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
PRESENTING PETITIONS
Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present thepetition of Mona
Yvon, Tanis Finney, Darlene Jackson and others,urging the government of
Mr. Speaker: I have
reviewed the petition of the honourablemember for
To the Legislature of the
WHEREAS each year smoke from stubble burning descends
uponthe
WHEREAS the Parents Support Group of Children with Asthma
haslong criticized the harmful effects of stubble burning; and
WHEREAS the smoke caused from stubble burning is not
healthyfor the general public and tends to aggravate the problems ofasthma
sufferers and people with chronic lung problems; and
WHEREAS alternative practices to stubble burning
arenecessitated by the fact that the smoke can place some people inlife‑threatening
situations; and
WHEREAS the 1987 Clean Environment Commission Report
onPublic Hearings, "Investigation of Smoke Problems fromAgriculture Crop
Residue and Peatland Burning," contained therecommendation that a review
of the crop residue burningsituation be conducted in five years' time,
including are‑examination of the necessity for legislated regulatory
control.
THEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the
LegislativeAssembly will urge the government of
TABLING OF REPORTS
Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Highways and
Transportation):Mr.
Speaker, I would like to table the Annual Report for the year1991‑92 for
the Department of Highways and Transportation.
INTRODUCTION OF BILLS
Bill 11‑The
Regional Waste Management Authorities,
The Municipal Amendment
andConsequential Amendments Act
Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development): Mr.Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister
of Agriculture (Mr.
Motion agreed to.
Introduction of Guests
Mr. Speaker: Prior to
Oral Questions, may I direct the attentionof honourable members to the
Speaker's Gallery, where we havewith us this afternoon, His Excellency Ignatius
Olisemeka, theHigh Commissioner of
On behalf of all members, I would like to welcome you
herethis afternoon, sir.
Also with us this afternoon we have seated in the
publicgallery, thirty Grade 5 students from the
Also from the
On behalf of all members, I would like to welcome you
herethis afternoon.
ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Core Area Agreement
Federal Participation
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Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, myquestion is to the
Premier. During the election of 1990,
thePremier promised during that campaign to renegotiate an innercity core
tripartite agreement to build upon the successes of thepast two
agreements. Subsequent to that date in
1990, theMinister of Urban Affairs agreed after the election to extend thedate
of the second Core. Since that time we
have heard varyingcomments of optimism, cautious optimism and concern from
theprovincial government about the success of the renegotiationswith the
federal Conservative government on the Core AreaAgreement.
Mr. Speaker, in 1991 the Premier himself, who was meeting
atthat time again with the Prime Minister, said the matter ofrenewal with the
federal government for urban revitalizationcontinues to be a matter of
discussion between the two parties.Again Thursday the Premier was meeting with
the Prime Minister,and as we understand that was also a matter of discussion
betweenthe two Conservative leaders, the provincial Conservative Premierand the
federal Prime Minister.
I would like to ask the Premier today in light of the
needfor a third Core Area Agreement, a need that we believe waspassed in terms
of extending the date, has the Premier secured atripartite agreement to
revitalize and continue to revitalize notonly the physical part of the Core
Area Agreement but the humancomponents of our Core Area Agreement?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the Leader of theOpposition is
quite right in saying that was a subject that Icovered with the Prime Minister
on Thursday. In fact, in thediscussion I
indicated to him that this had been a matter thathad been open in discussion
for more than two years between ourtwo governments. It is a matter that we believe is very,
veryimportant to the city of
We as a province have made our commitment. In fact, we haveeven indicated to the city
that we would go with a bilateralagreement with the City of
Mr. Doer: Mr.
Speaker, I hope that the federal government comesthrough. I think all Manitobans would not want to see
us leftwith a bilateral greement. In
fact, I am quite surprised thePremier would make that statement in the House
today, knowingthat the federal government will read his comments and feel
nottoo compelled to follow through on this tripartite agreement.They have just
potentially saved themselves $35 million overthree years.
Mr. Speaker, the government chose to extend the 1991 date,and
they announced that right after the provincial election inOctober 1990. We thought at that time that was a
negotiatingerror on the part of the province, that they had allowed thefederal
government not only to offload by extending the date butthey allowed the
federal government to be removed from theculminating deadline of the closing of
the Core Area components.
I ask the Premier:
Now that it was his strategy to extendthe date and his strategy now to
say that they are willing to gowith a bilateral agreement, how does he intend
to lever thefederal government so that we can get a third Core Area
Agreementand that we can get federal money that is absolutely required forthe
inner city of this province, the inner city of
Mr. Filmon: Mr.
Speaker, there are two things to that question;one is that the Leader of the
Opposition is anticipating orassuming that the agreement would be on the same
terms andconditions and with the same programs and priorities as
previousagreements, and I think that our Minister of Urban Affairs (Mr.Ernst)
has already indicated that such would not be the case. Soa mere continuation of the previous program
is not what we arelooking for.
Secondly, with respect to issues such as going
itbilaterally, the reality is that the federal government has doneas it did in
renewing the agreement with the previous NDPgovernment, offered reprofiled
money and not new money. We havesome
concerns about the fact that the previous governmentaccepted reprofiled money
as opposed to getting new money. Wehave
said that if that is all that is on the table, we obviouslydo not need the
federal government in it. They have already
gotthat money committed through EIC, through Pathways and otherprograms. We are looking for new money, and that is why
webelieve that it is irrelevant to the bargaining to say that weare committed,
along with the city, and we will not let the citydown if the feds do not come
in with new money.
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Core Area Agreement
Government Priorities
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, the CoreArea Agreement has
received international awards for the trainingcomponent of the program, for the
Infill Housing Programs, forthe kind of human programs that are contained
within the CoreArea Agreement.
I would like to ask the Premier today, the human
investmentthat was featured in both Core I and Core II, the humaninvestment in
people as well as the physical investments thattook place in Core I and II, the
Forks being one of the notableones in Core II‑‑are the human
dimensions and human investmentsnot contained as priorities of the provincial
government in athird revitalized Core Agreement? Can we know from thegovernment today, what
are the actual priorities of thisgovernment?
Would they have allowed the federal government toextend the
agreement? They have allowed the federal
governmentnot to participate in the third agreement; we have no new
federalmoney, as we did in Core I and Core II.
What are the prioritiesof this provincial government, and why are we not
succeeding interms of a Core III with the federal Conservative government?
Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Urban Affairs): Mr. Speaker,certainly the human elements, as
the Leader refers to them,contained in past Core Area Agreements have been
successful inlarge part. Things such as
the core area training program and soon, I have had an opportunity to be there
to see the kind ofpeople who have graduated from those programs, to see
thebenefits that the programs have brought to those individuals. Wewould want to see those kinds of things
continue in a futureagreement.
We are, Mr. Speaker, not tied to any specifics at the
moment,because I have publicly committed the government to hold publichearings
along with the mayor and hopefully Mr. Epp or whomeveris the senior member of
the federal government in order to hearwhat the people of the core area want,
what they see as theirpriorities, what they see as the successful programs that
werecontained in the Core Area Agreement of the past and what newideas have
come forward. We have some new ideas
ourselves, andwe will be unveiling those at the same time so that people havean
opportunity to comment on those very excellent programs thatwe have had in the
past and on the new ideas that we will bebringing forward in the future.
Chris Davis
Wheelchair Purchase
Ms. Judy Wasylycia‑Leis (
My question to the Minister of Health is, what is his
delay?He has known about this situation for five months. Why not giveChris assurances today that the
department will purchase thewheelchair, so that at least one aspect of the
community carerequirements of Chris Davis are met and he is cared for?
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Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, myhonourable friend makes the
case that all we have to do ispurchase a wheelchair, one of 10 in
Mr. Speaker, my honourable friend further alleges that
Ipersonally knew of the individual circumstance for five months.I did not,
because in many circumstances the Department ofHealth, working with other
ministries, attempts to findappropriate community placements for individuals for
whomhospital care would be an inappropriate location. Thisindividual is one of those.
Mr. Speaker, what we are attempting to do, and this has
beenan ongoing process, is to find the most appropriate communityplacement for
living to assure that the medical needs which arenot simple medical needs are
able to be met for this individualso that placement in other than an acute care
hospital can assurethe individual's safety.
Mr. Speaker, my statement to Chris today was, the issue
cameto light on Friday because the supplier of the specializedwheelchair
announced on their own initiative that they werepulling the chair by five
o'clock on Friday. I suggested thatwas
an inappropriate time line for the supplier to undertakebecause we expect,
through co‑operation between the departmentsand with Chris, to resolve
this problem, Sir.
Ms. Wasylycia‑Leis: Mr. Speaker, the impossible was morepossible
several years ago.
I would like to ask the Minister of Health how it waspossible
for this government several years ago to purchase asimilar wheelchair for
someone with similar needs to that ofChris Davis, that person now living and
doing very well in Fokushousing.
Why is it harder now, after this government's health
carereform initiative, to move towards cost‑effective community‑basedcare
than post his announced plan of action?
Mr. Orchard: Again,
Mr. Speaker, I do not know of what similarwheelchair‑‑because it is
my understanding that this wheelchairis one of 10 of the new model. It is not, as my honourablefriend alleges,
the one that we purchased two years ago.
Let me explain for my honourable friend how the
ministryworks, and this is not unusual because this is a similar processthat
has taken place for a number of years.
We provide modifiedwheelchairs, motorized in the case where needed,
where mobilityis impossible without a motorized wheelchair. Depending on thecircumstance of the individual's
need, those wheelchairs aremodified and modified quite significantly.
Mr. Speaker, that opportunity exists for this
individual.The specialized wheelchair, yes, is one that would meet hisneeds,
but there are also programs for modifying wheelchairs toalso accommodate that
need. Overriding that, the wheelchair
isnot the only issue. What is needed to
be determined and providedis a safe placement for this individual that will
meet theindividual's medical needs with assurance that they will not
becompromised. That is the process that
has been ongoing in termsof stabilizing the individual, assessing medical needs
andplanning for safe placement other than in a hospital.
Service Co‑ordination
Ms. Judy Wasylycia‑Leis (
Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, as usual,my honourable friend
considerably stretches her facts. Let
usdeal with some of the special needs individuals that were therein 1988 when
this government came into office. Let us
considerthe head injured, on their desk in 1988 when we took
overgovernment. What is the solution
today?‑‑a special wing in
Let us deal with another issue of the young disabled,
Mr.Speaker. What we are doing is working
with a number ofproponents in the health care community for the provision
ofyoung disabled placements in the community to meet specialmedical needs, more
appropriately met in specialized facilities.
Mr. Speaker, my honourable friend says there has been
nothinggoing on. The only thing that has
not been going on is myhonourable friend's understanding of significant change
in thehealth care system under this government.
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Investigation
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr.Speaker, my question is to the Minister
responsible for ManitobaHydro.
I think everyone in this House is relieved that there was
noloss of life or serious injury as a result of the explosion lastFriday. I would like to know from the minister if he
can tell usif this incident is being investigated by Hydro officials or hashe
directed an impartial independent authority to examine whathappened and to make
public their report.
Hon. James
I can inform the House that we are extremely fortunate,
allManitobans, that there was not any loss of life or limb, or infact any
injuries. We are extremely thankful for
that. As well,Mr. Speaker, there is a
full investigation being carried out byWorkplace Safety and Health, as well as
Manitoba Hydro. At thispoint, we are
trying to work to co-ordinate all activities asthey relate to that issue.
It is my understanding as well, the Fire
Commissioner'sOffice has it under full investigation. I want to take thisopportunity, if the member
does not mind, to acknowledge the hardwork and effort of all the people,
individuals and agencies thatparticipated and helped on Friday with people who
foundthemselves under the stress of the extreme incident. I canassure the member that it is being fully
investigated.
Compensation
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr.Speaker, there is a serious question about
insurance that hasbeen raised for those businesses and, more importantly,
theindividuals who have been affected, nearby homeowners andtenants, some of
whom have no dwelling whatsoever to live in.Processing of all of those claims
will obviously take some time.
Can the minister give us any information today with
respectto interim compensation, particularly for those people who haveimmediate
needs such as window replacement and in some casesalternate accommodations?
Hon. James Downey (Minister responsible for The
As far as interim arrangements are concerned, I am
preparedto work with other agencies that are involved in government tomake sure
that there is in fact support provided.
There is amunicipal responsibility as well, as it relates to that. To whatamount Family Services are involved, I
am not sure, but we areworking to try and co-ordinate some support.
Mr. Speaker, there is, of course, until all the
investigationwork is done, some question as to who in fact was responsible ina
legal manner as to the accident. Until
the full investigationis done, I cannot respond any further on that.
Mrs. Carstairs: Mr.
Speaker, can the minister tell us if thedepartment will be working with
claimants in order to ensure thatthose claims are made as rapidly as possible
and that they aresettled as quickly as possible?
Mr. Downey: Mr.
Speaker, again, it is a matter of making sureindividuals are accommodated to
the best way possible. I want toassure
the member that we are prepared to co‑operate and workwith all agencies
that will in fact try to accommodateindividuals during this difficult time.
As far as insurance claims and settlement, there has to
be alot of work done as to the responsibility as to who in fact
wasresponsible. The investigation, I am
sure, will clarify a lot ofthose details.
The Pas,
Justice System Backlog
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Mr. Speaker, my question isdirected to the
Minister of Justice.
Over a year ago, when the AJI report was released by
theMinister of Justice, he stated that there was nothing that he wasworking
harder on. The St. Theresa Point Youth
Court receivedfunding after a press conference in our office here not all
thatlong ago. Later on, the Hollow Water
Healing Circle alsoreceived some funds, as have a few other joint projects with
thefederal government, including the Swampy Cree tribal justiceproject and the
Island Lake Tribal Council family violenceproject. Since then, almost nothing has happened, Mr.
Speaker.
My question is:
Since there are over 300 court casesoutstanding in The Pas, with delays
of up to nine months now, aswe are speaking here today, will the minister now
hire a secondCrown attorney who is familiar with things like healing circlesand
other aboriginal justice systems to clear up the backlog thatis in The Pas?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney
General):Mr.
Speaker, I thank the honourable member for raising thisquestion, because he
should be advised that the Department ofJustice is in the process of hiring a
second prosecutor in ThePas. There has
been a delay, and that delay is occasioned by thedesire of the Department of
Justice, if possible, to hirelocally.
That creates some challenges for us.
We are dealingwith that, and that prosecutor will be in place
shortly. In themeantime, we are dealing
with the situation as best we canthrough the use of
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Aboriginal Justice
System
Program Funding
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Mr. Speaker, I would also like toask a
question to the same minister.
Given that the year is almost over now, will the
ministerrelease the complete list of all projects that have been fundedfrom the
AJI budget that was set aside for the fiscal year '92‑93?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney
General):Mr.
Speaker, the Department of Justice is working very closelywith some aboriginal
communities in this province through theauspices of the Aboriginal Court Worker
Advisory Committee. Thatadvisory
committee has membership representing the Assembly of
The honourable member will know that just over a week ago
Iattended a native justice round table discussion in
Mr. Lathlin: Mr.
Speaker, I still say that we should have a listof those projects that have been
funded through the AJI budgetfor '92‑93.
Aboriginal Justice
Inquiry
Recommendation Analysis
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): My third question is again to theMinister of Justice,
Mr. Speaker, and that is, the department hasbeen doing analysis on the AJI
recommendations; I want to ask theminister if he is prepared to release that
departmental analysisof all that was done on the recommendations of the report
so thatManitobans can see for themselves why so many of thoserecommendations
have either been dismissed or are not implementedor are being shelved and for
whatever reason.
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney
General):Many
of the recommendations in the Aboriginal Justice Inquiryflow from the key
recommendation that there be separate andsovereign systems of government for
aboriginal people. That isnot a
recommendation that we are in a position to accept sotherefore a number of the
recommendations in the justice inquiryare not able to be acted upon.
As I was saying in my last question, this was a matter
thatwas debated between the Assembly of First Nations Grand ChiefMercredi and
myself just over a week ago. Obviously
Grand ChiefMercredi, like the honourable member, will continue to putforward
the concept of separate sovereign systems of governmentwhich include separate
sovereign justice systems for aboriginalpeople.
As I said to Ovide Mercredi, I will say to the
honourablemember, we can debate that until we are both very, very old andin the
meantime we will not have done anything.
That is not goodenough, because the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry says that
too, andthere is general agreement that where we can work co‑operativelywith
communities we should indeed be doing that.
That isprecisely what we are doing.
The discussion of political will came up, the issue
ofpolitical will to create better systems of justice. Thepolitical will has to come not only from
provincial governmentsand the federal government but also from aboriginal
communities.The honourable member's community is one of those communitiesthat
has demonstrated it has political will and has moved withthe government to‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order,
please.
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Emilio Garcia
Parole Review
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, my question is for theMinister
of Justice. It is ironic hearing the
minister'scomments this morning that the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry alsostated
that aboriginal people represent a disproportionate amountof people who were
incarcerated because many cannot pay fines andhave trouble understanding the
justice system.
We have learned that Emilio Garcia, a lawyer in the city
of
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney
General): Iam not sure how the honourable member's, the
two parts of hisquestion tie together.
We did not need an Aboriginal JusticeInquiry to tell us that there were
a disproportionate number ofaboriginal people involved in our justice
system. The honourablemember should have
known that long before the Aboriginal JusticeInquiry. The members on this side of the House
certainly knewthat.
The justice inquiry did provide some useful advice
togovernment and to aboriginal communities, but surely for thehonourable member
to tell us that he did not know about thatbefore the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry
says something that israther disturbing about him and the members on his side
of theHouse. The honourable member asks
about a specific case. Ishall conduct some
inquiries and ascertain some information forthe honourable member on that case.
Mr. Chomiak: Mr.
Speaker, my supplementary to the sameminister.
Talk about a sovereign system‑‑how is it thisindividual got
out when the rules on parole that any of us areaware of‑‑it is
totally contrary to rules on parole to be outafter three months on a 64‑month
sentence. The minimum rulesthat we are
apprised of are one‑sixth of your sentence before youget out on day
parole, and how did this individual get out?
Talkabout a sovereign system.
Mr. McCrae: The
reason for my taking notice of the honourablemember's question is I want to
ensure that the information thehonourable member is bringing forward is
correct. We havecertainly seen plenty of
examples‑‑not as many times from thehonourable member as from some
of his colleagues who occupy thefront benches‑‑of incorrect
information being brought forward.Certainly three months on a 64‑month
sentence does deserve to belooked into and that is exactly what I told the
honourable memberI would do.
Mr. Chomiak: Mr.
Speaker, I am wondering if the minister canalso apprise the House whether or
not there is an ongoinginvestigation as to the $3 million that is still
outstanding interms of this trust fraud in light of the fact that the
LawSociety is concerned that some of that money may have been movedout of the
country.
Mr. McCrae: My
understanding is that when this kind of mattercomes forward every member of the
legal profession in thisprovince is extremely concerned for various reasons and
all ofthem very good reasons. On that question,
I will take thatquestion as notice as well.
Universities
Tuition Fees
Mr. Reg Alcock (Osborne): Mr. Speaker, I have a question for theMinister
of Education. Since this government took
office, feesat the
I would like to know from the Minister of Education, what
isthis year's policy on student fees?
Are they intending to holdthe line at all?
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): Mr.Speaker, I have some laryngitis and so I am
going to try andanswer the member's question as well as I can, and I hope that
hewill be able to hear me.
I think that it is very important for the member
tounderstand that we also have great concern around the issue ofstudent tuition
fees. We are in the process now of going
throughour budget cycle in the Department of Education as a departmentin
government. We are making every effort
to take intoconsideration issues relating to university funding and theimpact
on student tuition.
Mr. Alcock: Mr.
Speaker, the policy to date has been to transferthe cost of universities off
the general revenues onto the debtloads of students. I would like to ask the minister: Will sherecommend through the Universities
Grants Commission to theuniversities that they hold university fee increases
this year tothe cost of inflation?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr.
Speaker, the issue again of student tuition hasbeen of concern to this
government. We have made every attemptto
assist students, where tuition fees have risen, to make surethat those students
then have available to them student aid whichmay be of assistance to them to
allow them to continue in theireducational process.
Mr. Speaker, that is correct. The government has allowed thestudents to
pick up on their debt load with its inability to fundthe university.
Student Financial
Assistance
Mr. Reg Alcock (Osborne):
Mr. Speaker, I would ask the ministerif she can report to the House what
progress she has made in herdiscussions with the federal government,
discussions she wasquite proud of in Estimates last year, and whether or not
she hasbeen able to encourage them or get them to increase basic supportrates
for students.
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): Mr.Speaker, as the member knows, I have had
two face‑to‑facemeetings with the federal minister
responsible. I have alsocommunicated by
letter to him. I have met with the
studentpresidents from
In addition, Mr. Speaker, the Council of Ministers
ofEducation from across
Manitoba Public
Insurance Corporation
No-Fault Insurance
Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, I have a questionfor the
Minister responsible for MPIC.
Mr. Speaker, this minister has acknowledged that
Autopacrates could increase by as much as 90 percent in the next sevenyears. The previous NDP government asked Judge
Kopstein torecommend ways to reduce Autopac costs. The major recommendationof Judge Kopstein is
in the report, and I will read that onemajor recommendation: In my opinion, the inclination of a pureno‑fault
automobile insurance system is the issue which requiresmost urgent
consideration by the government of the province of
Mr. Speaker, my question to the minister is: Why has theminister refused to act on this
recommendation, which he has hadover four years, in order to really bring
Autopac costs down?
Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister charged with the administration
ofThe Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): Mr. Speaker,obviously, the member has been
reading with some interestarticles that he saw in today's paper.
The fact is, Mr. Speaker, that we have been looking
verycarefully at the cost containment in terms of the total cost tothe people
of the province. Over the last three
years, since wesaw the 28 percent that his previous government imposed on
thepeople of this province, the cost increases in the corporationhave not been
that dramatic. The fact is that there is
a trendbeginning to develop again in personal injury costs that we needto
examine.
Public Utilities Board
Process
Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, I want to be veryspecific with
this minister about costs.
Will this minister confirm that when the group
representingAutopac brokers and agents raised the matter of limiting agencyfees
and commissions with the MPIC, the corporation told them
Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister charged with the administration
ofThe Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): Mr. Speaker, Iam not sure if I even followed
the member's question, but I donot think I have any knowledge of whereof he is
speaking.
Mr. Leonard Evans: The
minister asked me to repeat thatquestion, my second question. Well, Mr. Speaker, it is obviousthat they
were asked to follow the proper procedure, and thiscabinet was prepared to
abort the proper procedure.
Agents' Fees
Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, my last questionto the minister
is: Will the minister now reconsider
hisposition, in light of his acknowledgement of rapid increases inthe future as
well as those in the past? Will this
ministerreconsider his position on agency fees and allow Autopac toproceed to
cap agency or broker fees to 3 percent now instead ofallowing them to rise to
nearly 10 percent? Let us have
someaction now. Let us save a million
dollars right now.
Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister charged with the administration
ofThe Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): Mr. Speaker, inthe incorporation of the
changes of Autopac 2000, as I have saidto the member several times, there will
be a dramatic change inthe way the corporation does business and the way that
they dobusiness with their agents as well as the public.
Mr. Speaker, in putting together that proposal that has
beentaking place for over the last three and a half years, it hasbeen one of
the primary focuses of the corporation to movetowards these cyclical
renewals. Why would you now decide
thatin the middle of those discussions, you should all of a suddenchange
direction?
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Labour Force Development
Government Initiatives
Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Mr. Speaker, over 70,000 Manitobansare now
dependent upon social assistance. The
vast majority ofthose families want and need training and retraining, but we
havea government in
I want to ask the Minister of Education: Will she tell theHouse when she will sign
that agreement with
Mr. Speaker: Order,
please. The honourable member has put
herquestion.
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): Mr.Speaker, we have been working on the
signing of theCanada‑Manitoba Labour Force Development Agreement. We are, Ibelieve, very close to making sure
that the interests ofManitobans are now represented in that agreement, and I
expect tobe looking at signing it very shortly.
Consultations
Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Mr. Speaker, I would like to askthe minister
to change the policy that she announced in thisHouse last Thursday, when she
said that she would not consult anyfurther with the labour movement or with
education until aftershe had signed that agreement. I want to give her theopportunity to retract
that.
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): Mr.Speaker, I believe the member has
misconstrued any remarks made.
We have in fact met and are very willing to consult
withbusiness, with industry and with labour to make sure that theirinterests
are represented and most particularly, Mr. Speaker, tomake sure that their
interests are represented in the formationof any boards which then will flow
from the signing of thatagreement.
Crop Insurance Review
Report Release
Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): Mr. Speaker, I have a question forthe
Minister of Agriculture.
The crop insurance review was undertaken last year, after
ageneral concern that was expressed throughout the province aboutinequities in
crop insurance, crop insurance distortions invarious areas of the
province. The minister undertook a
reviewwith a committee that was appointed that travelled throughout theprovince
and provided him with a report that he received lastJune. That is over five months ago. Since June, this ministerhas not released that
report, despite repeated requests that havebeen made by myself and many others
for this report.
I want to ask the minister: Why will he not release the cropinsurance
review report that was undertaken? What
is he hiding?
Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture): Mr. Speaker, we arehiding nothing. We had a very open process of 10 people
goingaround and hearing input from producers and agribusiness people,whoever
wanted to come forward and make some comment to the CropInsurance Commission.
On behalf of the board of directors of Manitoba CropInsurance
and the minister and the federal minister, all threeparties are reviewing
it. Many of the aspects in the review
arenow being implemented by the Crop Insurance Corporation, and theboard is
reviewing the final details in order to be able torelease the document. It will be released before too long. Theboard is reviewing and acting as fast as
they can on many of theinitiatives in the report.
Mr. Plohman: Mr.
Speaker, this is incredible. How can
thisminister say he is implementing this report when farmers, theKeystone
Agricultural Producers, the committee members themselvesare asking this
minister to release it? When will he
releasethat report?
Mr. Findlay: Mr.
Speaker, the farmers of
Mr. Plohman: Mr.
Speaker, in doing all kinds of things insecret, is it not a fact that this
minister is hiding this reportbecause he has been proven wrong in basing GRIP
completely on thebasis of crop insurance, and the distortions that were in
cropinsurance are magnified many times in GRIP because of it?
Mr. Findlay: That
member is saying revenue insurance is no goodfor the farmers of
That member does not want
Mr. Speaker: The time
for Oral Questions has expired.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS
Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister responsible for Sport): Leave torevert to ministerial statements,
please?
Mr. Speaker: Does the
honourable minister have leave to revertto ministerial statements?
Some Honourable Members:
Leave.
Mr. Speaker: It is
agreed.
Mr. Stefanson: Mr.
Speaker, I have a ministerial statement tocirculate.
I am honoured to rise before the House today to salute
themany Manitobans who contributed to the city of
As well documented through the media,
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These special community-minded and
community-spiritedcitizens, who pooled their skills and abilities and devoted
theirtime and energies for the better part of two years, and incertain
individual cases longer, are to be duly recognized fortheir contribution to
what will result in long‑term benefits toManitoba.
While the ultimate decision still rests with the Pan
AmericanSports Organization, it is generally felt endorsement from theCanadian
Olympic Association was the biggest challenge towardsecuring the games.
In proceeding now with what I feel will be another
successfulbid, the investment we will make to hosting the games in 1999will
create 2,000 full‑time jobs, add $136 million to the
Mr. Speaker, both the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and I had
theprivilege of being in
I would ask all members to join me in congratulating
thosededicated volunteers who served on the 1999 Pan American GamesBid
Committee and in offering encouragement and support to thehost bid committee
and the Canadian Olympic Association towardsecuring the endorsement of the Pan
American Sports Organizationfor Winnipeg as the host of the 1999 Pan American
Games.
Thank you.
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Yes, responding to theministerial statement
that we reverted back to, Mr. Speaker, Iwould like to congratulate the
delegation on behalf of the cityof
Mr. Speaker, the minister has mentioned the volunteers
whohave worked actively on behalf of the
Mr. Speaker, I would like to pay tribute to a couple of othervolunteers
who I think it is very important today to remember inthis ministerial
statement. One is Jim Daly, who led the
1967Pan American Games and the tremendous voluntary activity in 1967in
I also think that Art Mauro deserves a tremendous amount
ofcredit, because the hosting of the Grey Cup last year withcommunity
volunteers, when you compare that with the hosting ofthe Grey Cup in Toronto
last week, I am sure made the differenceof the one vote in terms of the voting
delegates, and I think weowe some gratitude to those people who were involved.
I know also that we were seized with this responsibility
in1987. I know that Minister Desjardins
visited down toIndianapolis with the former deputy mayor, now the
Ministerresponsible for Sport, in 1987 in terms of the initial lobby.
I also recall, Mr. Speaker, that former minister of
SportParasiuk had to deal with some of the capital concepts of hostingthe Pan
American Games, and I want to bring to the attention ofmembers opposite, one of
the capital considerations that he hadbefore him and that I would ask the
government to consider. Oneof his
criteria for contributing with the Sports Federation andthe province in
contribution with the city and the federalgovernment was to ensure that all the
sports facilities that willbe left behind, all the investment that will be left
behind foramateur sports and community quality of life will be spreadevenly
throughout our Manitoba communities and not be justrelegated to one area of the
city or another. I would raise thiswith
the minister now, because it will be an issue that we willbe watching for to
ensure the kind of fairness that we asked forthe federal government last week
is the kind of fairness that wesee with facilities that are required in the Pan
American Games.
I would also raise one other issue‑‑and I
mean this very seriously‑‑to the government, because I do congratulate
them ontheir successful activity in getting this bid. I want to saythat not only to the Minister of
Sport but to the Premier (Mr.Filmon) and all others who were involved in the
bid presentationthis weekend.
One of the things we were worried about in 1986 when we
weredealing with the initial bid requirement was the fact that we hadto get a
Core Area Agreement in place with the federalgovernment, because it would not
appear to be fair to some peoplein our community who are most vulnerable for us
to have a federal-provincial agreement on the Pan American Games and nothave a
federal-provincial agreement on the Core Area Agreement.
I say very seriously to the government today that this
willbe perceived as a void in our celebration.
So we hesitated forat least a year before we started our lobbying, until
we got thesecond Core in place before we started actively pursuing the
PanAmerican Games in 1999.
I congratulate the government. I congratulate all whopresented the
briefs. I congratulate all the volunteers
from1967 on. We pledge our cooperation
with the government on thisvery important project, but I would ask the
government toconsider those two points that I raised here this afternoon.Thank
you very, very much.
Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The Maples): Mr. Speaker, I would also liketo join with
the minister, the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and themembers of the House conveying
our best wishes to Mr. DonMacKenzie and Barbara Huck and all of the volunteers
who haveworked so hard to make sure that we got to the first place tohave the
Pan American Games in Manitoba.
Our task will not end at this day. It is the first step. Itis a very important step, but the final
step will take some time,more effort and more organizations and support from thegovernment
in making sure that we get to the final stage so thatwe not only get the
financial benefit, but also games are such animportant thing in the world
today. That way we can not onlygather
the financial resources but also convey what
When there are so many tensions, the games are one of
theavenues where we can really do very well.
I will certainly joinwith the government and the people and the
volunteers who haveworked so hard and make sure that we will be successful. Thankyou.
NONPOLITICAL STATEMENTS
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr.Speaker, I would like leave to make a
nonpolitical statement, ifwe are reverting now to that.
Mr. Speaker: Does the
honourable Leader of the Second Oppositionhave leave to make a nonpolitical
statement? [agreed]
Mrs. Carstairs: Mr.
Speaker, 75 years ago yesterday was thelargest man‑made explosion, up to
the disaster of
In the
My father was a student of 16 on that day of December
6,1917. He was actually sitting in his
classroom when he looked upand saw the enormous ball of fire and watched as his
teacheractually, who had the peculiar habit of his desk apparentlyfacing the
window, lost one eye immediately. Most
of the boys inthe room were covered in cuts and wounds‑‑and I am taking
much ofthis account, by the way, Mr. Speaker, from my father'smemoirs‑‑and
they gradually worked them out of the school.
Whenthey arrived outside, they began to separate and go to their
ownhomes.
My father went home with a young man by the name of Dan
McTiernan, but when they got to Dan McTiernan's house, the househad
disappeared. There were no houses
anywhere near thisparticular home, and Mrs. McTiernan was one of the dead. Myfather then became concerned about what had
happened to his ownhome. When he arrived
at his house, the whole top part of thehouse was destroyed, and so they camped,
literally, in thebasement and on the first floor for several weeks.
We often like to poke fun at the neighbour to the south
ofus. Sometimes we are not at all in
sync with their political andsometimes their economic policies, but my father
accounts that itwas the people of Boston, Massachusetts, who were the first
tocome to the support of the people of Halifax.
The transportationlinks had been cut off every place else because of
damage to therails, and it was
That is why it was with interest last week, when I picked
upa story from the
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* * *
Hon. Gerald Ducharme (Minister of Government Services): Mr.Speaker, may I have leave to make a
nonpolitical statement?[agreed]
Mr. Speaker, it is indeed my pleasure to rise in the
Housetoday to congratulate the Dakota High School Varsity BoysVolleyball team
who once again won the Provincial AAAA VolleyballChampionship. This comes on the heels of last weekend's
victoryby the Dakota High School Freshman Girls team who won theirprovincial
division.
This speaks very loudly for the fine athletic programs
thatthe St. Vital School Division provides for their students. Thetraining does not begin in high school,
but starts with ourelementary and junior high schools by very many
dedicatedteachers. Virtually all of the
champions have come up throughthe system, and probably some of them, Mr.
Speaker, willparticipate in the Pan Am Games in 1999.
Some of those could be of the following: the freshman girlsteam coached by Lisa Hill
and Lara Winstone and consists ofJacqueline Bilodeau, Crystal Brown, Dayna
Butterworth, CherylClark, Cynthia Croatto, Kyla Hanec, Cadence Hays,
KathleenHolmes, Dana Klatt, Katie Marie, Jill McAndless who was thetournament's
most valuable player, Shea Telfer, Holly Thiessenand Amy Tuck.
The varsity boys are coached by Phil Hudson, Sandy
Prabhakarand Carmine Sparanese. On that
team is Sean Barr, John Causon,Brunel Delorme, David Foster, Steve Graham, Dan
Hudson, RickHuff, Brian Martens, Mike Martens, John Minkevich, MarkSchmidtke,
Bill Schoen, Ken Unger, Dan Webb and Bruce Winstone,who was also the
tournament's most valuable player this year andlast year. Well done, Dakota.
Point of Order
Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Mr. Speaker, I would like toapologize to the
honourable member for Emerson (Mr. Penner).
Indebate on Friday, I forgot the name of his fine constituency. Ialso referred to it in unparliamentary
terms, and I apologize forthat, as well.
The honourable member invited me to visit Emerson which
infact I have done. I have preached at
Emerson,
I would also like to invite‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order,
please. The honourable member does not
havea point of order. That is clearly
not a point of order.
* * *
Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development): Mr.Speaker, may I have leave to make a
nonpolitical statement?[agreed]
Mr. Speaker, at this time of the year, we see many
provincialvolleyball tournaments around the province. Indeed, myconstituency, the town of
More importantly, I would like to congratulate the Goose
LakeHigh Boys Senior Varsity team for being successful in achievingthe
Provincial AA Championship in volleyball this year. Coachedby Hugh Newton, Mr. Speaker, they did
an excellent job throughoutthe year in terms of practices, and indeed they have
shown thatRoblin Goose Lake High produces some top quality athletes in
thisprovince. So congratulations to all
of them.
* * *
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, might I have leave tomake a
nonpolitical statement?
Mr. Speaker: Does the
honourable member for Kildonan have leaveto make a nonpolitical statement?
[agreed]
Mr. Chomiak: The
member for Roblin‑Russell truly did speak whenhe said that it was sort of
the volleyball season in sportseason. I
want to join together with other members of the Housein congratulating the
Garden City Collegiate girls volleyballteam for winning the first provincial
championship in theirhistory, which they won on the weekend, Mr. Speaker.
On behalf of all colleagues in the House, I am sure you
willjoin with me in congratulating the girls volleyball team. Thankyou.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
THRONE SPEECH DEBATE
(Seventh Day of Debate)
Mr. Speaker: On the
proposed motion of the honourable member forSeine River (Mrs. Dacquay) for an
address to the honourableAdministrator in answer to his speech at the opening of
thesession, and the proposed motion of the honourable Leader of theOpposition
(Mr. Doer) in amendment thereto, as follows, standingin the name of the
honourable member for Point Douglas, who has33 minutes remaining.
Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): Mr. Speaker, before Icontinue, I would just
like to clear up a little misunderstandingfrom some of my comments on Friday.
Some of the members took my comments not in the
intentionthat I raised them. I was not
questioning any member of theHouse's integrity or understanding of aboriginals
or visibleminorities. The only point I
was trying to make was that Ipersonally would love to see a fairer
representation of peopleliving in
On that, I would just like to continue on with
theconstituents of Point Douglas who, as we know, are trying to workvery hard
to try and make ends meet and continue on with theircareers and their lives.
When I was talking about the opening of many food banks,
weall know that is not the answer. The
answer is training andjobs. I hope when
we look at training opportunities forindividuals in
I think another area that we have to make sure that we do
notlose sight of, and we do not lose, is our English as a SecondLanguage
programs because those are very important to people thatcome from other
countries, and English will now become theirsecond language. We all know how difficult it is when you
travelto another country, or to a foreign place, and English is notyour
language, how difficult it is to try to communicate or evenjust to catch a bus
or to purchase something. It is
verydifficult. I hope we do not ever,
ever lose those kinds ofprograms because
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I would like to just take a few moments to talk about
myformer colleague, the former member for Rupertsland.
For us aboriginal people, it was a big breakthrough when
wefinally had a national hero that a lot of the children andaboriginal people
could look up to. I am not saying that
justbecause he came from our party. It
would not have mattered if hecame from the Liberals or Conservatives. There was an aboriginalperson that finally
had recognition across
A lot of the housing in some of those northern
communitiesare really second‑, third‑rate housing, and nobody had
reallyrecognized that and really worked hard‑‑well, I guess
theaboriginal people had worked hard, but the citizens of Canada, Ido not
think, were really aware of it until the former member ofRupertsland stood up
and got the true recognition across Canadaand the world.
When I think of some of the times that I had the
opportunityof travelling with the former member and just being at theairport or
in an elevator, the number of total strangers thatrecognized the former member
and came up and said, "Thanks," asan aboriginal person, I do not know
if I will ever feel as proudas I did at those times.
Now we hear talk about aboriginal self‑government,
andaboriginal this and aboriginal that.
A few years back, you wouldhave never, ever heard those kinds of
statements made. I hope,because of the
support that is out there now from a lot of thenon‑aboriginal people,
that a lot of those goals and dreams forour children will be fulfilled because
my friend and formercolleague had represented the North, and the North right
nowneeds a lot of help.
There is the community of Churchill, which is my home town.They
were trying to develop a space port and wanted support fromthe governments and
various organizations and agencies. When
youtalk about the space port program, you are talking about 500 jobsin
refurbishing the rocket range. Those 500
jobs would create alot of employment opportunities and a lot of dollars for
northernManitoba, because if you have the space port program, then thereis
justification for keeping the railroad open, and when therailroad is open there
should be justification for continuingwith a port, because even this summer
when the grain ships left Churchill there was a memo that went out from CNR to
make surethat there was no grain left in Churchill.
That is very scary, because if they are looking at
abandoningthe port, they are looking at abandoning a lot of
employmentopportunities for the citizens of that community because there
isreally nothing else happening there during the summer months.But if you get
the space port program and if it gets off theground, just like the rockets when
they are launched, if it getsoff the ground then the railroad should be
maintained andhopefully the port will continue on.
When I was growing up in Churchill, I remember many,
manytimes watching the rockets being fired and it was a greatthrill. In fact, they used to fire about 3,000
rockets everyyear and if they could get that kind of commitment from
variousspace programs, then hopefully it will get a much higher ratingby
interested companies and by governments for that much‑neededsupport.
Also, when we talk about the North, we look at
mining. Themining in northern
An Honourable Member: Whose
fault is it?
Mr. Hickes: Well, I
do not know whose fault it is. I guess
to acertain extent you could lay fault, because of some of theinitiatives that
have not taken place and some of the, I guess,the initiatives that took place
that were detrimental to miningin northern
Then, on the other hand, you cannot blame a government
whenthe mine runs out, because the statement has always been madethat the day a
mine opens, the next day you start planning for itto close because the
orebodies have to run out some time.
Iguess, in anticipation of that, there should have been measuresput in
place and more exploration done and more investment tofind alternative
orebodies.
An Honourable Member: They should not have been taxed to thelimit,
right?
Mr. Hickes: Well,
the member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laudendeau)said they should not be taxed to the
limit. Well, in reference‑‑
An Honourable Member: What did
the NDP do? They taxed them outof the
province.
Mr. Hickes: In
reference to the member's statement that the NDPtaxed them to the limit, well,
in 1989, his government which issitting today raised the mining tax 1.5
percent. If they weretaxed to the limit,
why did the government raise the mining tax1.5 percent? They should have maybe lowered them 1.5 percent
if,as the member states, they are taxed to the limit. If you aretaxed to the limit, there is no
more room to add tax. Thereshould not be
any more room. So I guess the member
should speakto his colleagues and ask them why they raised the tax 1.5percent
if they are already taxed to the limit.
Ask them.
(Mr.
Ben Sveinson, Acting Speaker, in the Chair)
When we talk about mines, like planning for when mines
aregoing to close, the dollars that are put in right now forexploration and prospectors
and stuff, that is a good program.Northerners and people in
So maybe the exploration and prospecting work should
havebeen started three, four years ago, because when you findorebodies it takes
at least two years to have that mine intoproduction. So when we talk about that, we can go back
and forthand blame each other, and we do.
That is okay, because that iswhat government is for. Opposition, that is our role.
I really believe that there is more to life than
justpolitics. When we are in this forum
here, when we are in theChamber, this is where our forum is to get our ideas
across,hopefully, and the government to justify their actions. This isa political forum. But when we leave this building, I hope
thatwe all remember that we all have families, we all love, we allcry and that
there are times when there is no room for politics.
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A good example I will give you is some of us members
here, wehave participated in hockey teams.
We have members from allthree parties, and we go out there and we have a
heck of a goodtime, a really good time, and we are all people. There is nobodydifferent in that room. When we are on the ice, there is
nobodydifferent. [interjection]
Well, I would not jump up and down and say that, but we
allgo out there and we participate and we have fun together. We area team made up of different political
stripes. That is why Ireally believe that
all the negative stuff that we hear fromother people about politicians, that if
we could just get thatteam together and go and tour some of these communities
and helpthem fund raise.
Say, for instance, in St. Norbert if they are having
afund‑raising project for whatever, that we put our team togetherand
challenge an old timers team from there and whatever money isbrought in goes to
that organization. If we did that, say
in theEast, the North, the West, we would go out and have a lot offun. It might take three or four days out of our
time. I thinkthe people would look at us
in a different light.
Maybe some members do not believe in that. I feel sorry ifthat is the case, because I
think it is an excellent opportunityfor the people to see us as we really are,
I would say, I hope98, 99 percent of the time.
We do not have the greatest team,but we have a lot of fun doing it. In the summertime, we coulddo the same thing
playing ball. [interjection] Yes, we shouldhave mixed teams. I fully agree with you. I really believe thatis the kind of stuff
that we should be doing. If we did more
ofthat, I really believe that people would look at us in adifferent light. That is an idea maybe we could pursue
further.
Anyway, I would like to get back to some of the
issuespertaining to the constituency of Point Douglas. Just recently,we had people who were finally
charged in Point
When we look at the problems facing a lot of the
individuals,whether it is sniffing glue or drinking Lysol or sniffing
nailpolish, we are doing a lot of damage to our youth and smallchildren. It is not unheard of to see kids six, seven
years oldwith a plastic bag over their mouth and if we could just putmeasures
into place to stop that kind of action.
That is onepart of the problem.
The other part of the problem goes a lot further than
that.It goes into the families and the opportunities for employmentand
opportunities for training and on and on and on. I know itis not going to be solved overnight,
but if we could just takesmall steps at a time and, hopefully, some day we will
not haveto worry about those kinds of problems.
The more we do, I guess,the more we can do and the more we hopefully
accomplish for thepeople, because that is what this life is supposed to be
allabout, then I think the better world we will have to leave to ourchildren.
I do not want to take up too much more time. I just wantedto put a few things on
record. I hope the government will
lookat proclaiming Bill 91, because that will be one of the steps toachieving
those goals for the people of
Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development): Mr. Acting Speaker, I would first of all say
that I am pleased to rise todayto be able to add my comments to those that have
already beenoffered on the throne speech.
Let me begin by congratulating andwelcoming back Mr. Speaker to his
Chair and, indeed, wishing himwell during this session.
Mr. Acting Speaker, I would like to welcome two new
membersto our Legislature. First of all,
from the
I know that he is going to be a very contributing member
tothis Legislature and he is going to represent
Mr. Acting Speaker, I would also like to welcome to
theLegislature the new member for Crescentwood, Ms. Avis Gray.Indeed, as she
comes back to the Legislature, I know that she isgoing to contribute very
positively to the debate that goes on inthis House. Indeed, she will represent Crescentwood in a
veryrespectable way, and I wish her well in terms of her tenure asthe
representative for Crescentwood.
Mr. Acting Speaker, I would like to also say that things
havechanged somewhat since we were here last spring. Indeed, we haveseen three members of this
Legislature who have decided to doother things with their lives.
First of all, I offer my best wishes to someone who came
intothe Legislature at the same time I did, and that is the formermember for
In addition, Mr. Acting Speaker, someone whom I have had
manylively debates with in this House, the Leader of the secondopposition party
(Mrs. Carstairs), I have to tell her that indeedI enjoyed the debates we had
and some of the exchanges we had inQuestion Period but, again, from time to
time this Housedegenerates a little bit and we get into the politics
ofpersonalities. I would like to say to
her that I was veryinterested in her closing remarks at the last session when
shestood in her place and talked about decorum in this House and thefact that
this House needed to look towards dealing with issuesrather than personalities.
I have to say to her that I really welcome her comments
thissession and, indeed, she has dealt with the issues and she hasnot dealt
with personalities. She, as Leader of
her party, hasindeed brought her party a long way in this province and
hascontributed admirably to the political process in our province.I wish her
well as she chooses other endeavours in her life, butI know during this session
we will have some lively exchanges,and I look forward to those as well.
Mr. Acting Speaker, the member for Rupertsland, who
haschosen to do other things as well, leaves this Legislature, buthe does leave
his mark on the political process in our provinceand in the history of this
province. I wish him well as hechooses a
new way of life, perhaps looking to other politicalaspirations down the road.
I would like to welcome the new interns whom we have with
usthis session. I would like to welcome
our new Pages, and I amvery impressed with the work that they are doing here in
ourHouse. I am sure that this will be a
learning experience to themas well. I
would like to welcome them to the Legislature at thistime, and I would also
like to welcome Judy White to the table ofthe Clerk.
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Members of this House have returned for another session
andindeed are looking forward to some debate and how they cancontribute to the
political process in our province. When
weended the last session, I come back again to comments that weremade by the
Leader of the official opposition (Mr. Doer) and theLeader of the Second
Opposition (Mrs. Carstairs) and indeed thePremier (Mr. Filmon) of this House
with regard to what we are allabout and why we are here. We are here to represent the peoplewho have
elected us. We are here to deal with
issues.
Although we view things from different perspectives, it
isimportant that we keep in mind that we are here to bring forwardthose ideas
of the people whom we represent.
Mr. Acting Speaker, I cannot emphasize strongly enough thatfrom
time to time we should look at ourselves and ask ourselveswhether or not we are
truly dealing with issues, or whether wesometimes or too often get into this
whole rhetoric of dealingwith personalities and our view of another individual.
Mr. Acting Speaker, I think it is important that we
introduceguests into this Legislature as we do the students from variousschools
in this province. I have travelled to
many schools inthis province and have talked to students who have been in
ourLegislature. From time to time, you
will get comments fromstudents who are in Grade 8, and they will ask you the
question,is this how you people really conduct your affairs in the
House,because it is not the way we are allowed to act in school, and ifwe acted
like this in school, they would probably call ourparents in.
Maybe we should learn a lesson from some of these
students.Perhaps we need to take some of those comments to heart andindeed
conduct ourselves in a more respectable fashion from timeto time. I know that the call came from the Leaders at
the endof the last session, and I am hoping that this session willindeed take
on a different flavour.
Mr. Acting Speaker, I would like to spend a moment or
twotalking about the constituency I represent.
It is a constituencythat is a long way from this Legislature, at the
west side of theprovince and somewhat north of here as well, and we have
probablyhad one of the most difficult years that I can remember and thatmany of
my constituents can remember as well. As
a matter offact, my father says that in his lifetime he can only rememberone
year which probably was as hard on the rural economy as thisyear was, and it
was 59 years ago when he was just a newlymarried farmer in that area.
This year our constituency was hit by probably the
mostdevastating frosts that we have seen in a long time. I rememberwe were at the ministerial
conference in Clear Lake on the 13thof August, when I got up at about 5:30 in
the morning, and Icould not believe my eyes because the ground was white, and
itwas the first frost of the year, so to speak, that was going todo some great
damage to our crops and, indeed, that did hurt thecrops. Then there were frosts two weeks later that
literallydestroyed what potentially would have been one of the best cropsthat
we had ever grown.
Mr. Acting Speaker, a lot of the crop is still out in
swathin the fields and probably will not see the bin, and much of itwill be
destroyed in the spring. This puts a
very bleak pictureon the people who live in my constituency. Many are wonderingwhether or not they have a
future in agriculture or whether theywill be able to make it through this
year. Many are thankinggovernments, both
federal and provincial, for the GRIP program.Indeed, I was at a meeting not
that long ago where a farmer stoodup and said, thank the government for the
GRIP program because ifit were not for GRIP, we would not be in the agriculture
businesstoday.
My constituency is a very resilient one and one which
isinhabited by people who always believe that there is a bettertomorrow. With that spirit, they are looking forward to
nextyear as being a better year, and indeed one where they canperhaps get back
on their feet and start making some dollarsagain and seeing their lives put
back together again.
Mr. Acting Speaker, the statistics came out on my area,
and Ithink it is the highest unemployed area that we have in thisprovince at
the present time. I think the
unemployment rate inmy area is about 24.5 percent at this time.
There are many factors that contribute to the fact that
it isa high unemployed area, and therefore we need to pay some specialattention
to an area which has an unemployment rate of thatnature, but it is not
government that is going to fix it for thepeople there. It is going to have to come from the
peoplethemselves and indeed from the businesses that operate in thatarea.
To that extent, Mr. Acting Speaker, I have to say that I
wasvery motivated on Friday when I attended a graduation at TheRussell
Inn. It was the first graduation of the
AssiniboineCommunity College Parkland Southwest Campus. At that graduation,there were 11 women who
were graduating with a program in dataprocessing and a business program. It was interesting, becausenone of the 11
people who were graduating had employment in thelast two years. As a result of their taking the program, six
ofthem had already gained employment before the night of theirgraduation.
I guess all this does is point to the importance of
trainingand retraining in some of our rural areas. The little campusthat was established in that
community has served not only thatcommunity well, because there were graduates
there from areasthat were 30 and 40 miles away, so indeed it is a benefit to
thatside of the province.
It is my hope that that program will only increase in
termsof the number of participants in it and there will be a widerrange of
programs offered in the future.
When we talk about opportunities and training and
retraining,I guess when you see a statistic like that, where out of 11people who
have not worked for at least two years, six havegained employment because of
their ability to become retrained,we see how important it is for us to put
emphasis on training andretraining opportunities.
Mr. Acting Speaker, we live in a very tough economic
time,not only in this province but indeed in this country and allaround the
world. We are coming out of a recession,
or we hopewe are coming out of a recession.
We have seen people lose theirjobs all around the country, and there are
not any simplesolutions or cures. Some
people think that there are some simpleanswers but, indeed, there are not. Restructuring is takingplace all around the
world, not just in our province but indeedthroughout our country and all around
the world. As I say, thesolutions are
going to be ones that are not simple and are goingto take some time to
implement.
When I listened to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.
Doer) inhis address to the throne speech, he highlighted such things aslayoffs,
job shortages, the suffering of people who do not havejobs. He said that his party listens. He accused our side ofnot listening to the
people of our province. Well, let me tellmy
honourable friend that indeed our party and our governmentlisten very carefully
to the people of this province, and weinvolve the people of the province in
decision making.
I ask the Leader of the Opposition where he was the day
thatthe Economic Innovation and Technology Council held its forumhere in
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Although the members opposite may ridicule the process,
therewere many at that forum who thought that this was the rightprocess that we
should be embarking on. Oh, yes, we
couldcriticize any one of the speakers or any one of the functions ofthat
forum. We could always find criticism. But let us look atthe bigger picture, and let
us understand that the solutions donot come from the top. Indeed, we have to reach out to thepeople to
find solutions, and that was the idea behind the forum,Mr. Acting Speaker.
Indeed, through the participation within the groups
andlistening to the speakers, there were ideas that came out that Ithink need to
be acted on down the road. These are
ones that aregoing to help lead our province perhaps out of the situation
thatwe find ourselves in today.
Mr. Acting Speaker, it is very evident that we cannot
thinkabout solutions in old ways. Our
thinking must reflect thechanging economy.
Our actions must be creative. We
must alsounderstand that there is going to be some risk taken when we
Mr. Acting Speaker, when I listened to Dan Will that
morningat the forum, it was evident that in his comments he was quiteclear in
indicating that this process of restructuring oureconomy and our society today
is one that needs a partnershipapproach.
That partnership must include labour, it must includebusiness and it
must include government. We must call on
allsectors of our society to become involved as partners in achanging
world. We know that those who resist
change will beleft behind, and those who pick up the challenge are going
toeventually emerge as winners.
Mr. Acting Speaker, I could ask the question, well, how
doesManitoba sit in relation to our neighbours with regard to thechallenges and
the changes that are taking place? I
could go toThe Globe and Mail, and I know this article may have already
beenused by someone, but I think it is such a good one that it shouldbe used
over and over again by all of us. It is
an article thatwas in the November 10th Globe and Mail and its headline says:Burst
of activity linked to provincial strategy boosting thesector. It talks about the biomedical industry
setting up shopin
Mr. Acting Speaker, this is a good news story, because
ittalks about the whole biomedical industry and how it is in factusing
Mr. Acting Speaker, there are several of these
initiatives,like the initiative of Apotex Incorporated that will look at a$19‑million
biotechnology investment in this province, or wecould look at the Trimel
Corporation from Toronto which will beopening a $30‑million state of the
art pharmaceutical factory inSteinbach.
We could look at Health and Welfare Canada'sconstruction beginning with
a $143‑million virology lab, or wecould look at the Medix Corporation or
at the National ResearchCouncil investing $21 million in this province.
Mr. Acting Speaker, this does not happen by
accident. Ithappens because there are
people in this province who want tomake it happen. These people are the government of
thisprovince. Dr. Sherman says that
These are industries that are going to provide long‑termemployment
for our province. It is high‑tech,
it isprofessional, it is an industry that is going to bring with itspin‑off
industries, related industries. It
brings with itresearch. It brings with
it the academic sector as well.
Soanytime that we can go out and attract businesses, we can
attractservices which are of this calibre, I think that all of us shouldjoin
together and ensure that we do that for the benefit of ourprovince.
Mr. Acting Speaker, as I said, there were certain things
thathad to be in place before some of this could happen. Some ofthis that I speak about has been
happening over the last four anda half years, and it is this government
controlling governmentspending, keeping the taxes down‑‑over five
budgets taxes havenot increased‑‑actively pursuing industries into
our province,industries that are high‑tech that will add jobs so badly
neededin this province.
All of this also creates a need for us to look carefully
atour training and retraining programs.
Over the last number ofyears, we have looked at training and retraining
as importantcomponents of our society.
The
It was for that reason that Red River Community College
putin programs which would teach our youth, train residents of ourprovince to
become skilled in the types of industries that wouldlead them to full‑time
and permanent employment. It is for
thatreason that we put Workforce 2000 together, so that those whoperhaps were
underskilled or needed training could get thattraining, not in a formal
classroom, but also could get thattraining while they were working in a job
situation.
Mr. Acting Speaker, much more needs to be done. Oureducation system must become part of the
changing world so thatit can better respond to the demands and the needs of
oursociety. Our graduates must be as
good as their counterparts,not just in
We could point to a couple of examples that have shown
thatit is shortsighted or without result.
I refer specifically tosuch an endeavour as the Jobs Fund. I want to know, and I wonderif there is still
a single job around that was initiated underthe Jobs Fund. The only thing that has remained is the
humongousdebt that was created as a result of the Jobs Fund. I do notbelieve that there is a single job in
this province still aroundthat was created as a result of the ill‑fated
Jobs Fund. So, Mr.Acting Speaker,
although that Jobs Fund consumed enormous amountsof money, the results were
short‑lived, if there were any at all.
An Honourable Member: And what have you done?
Mr. Derkach: Mr.
Acting Speaker, as I indicated‑‑[interjection]The member for The
Pas (Mr. Lathlin) says, what have you done?
Iremind him that he was in a different capacity at the time that Iwas
Minister of Education and Training, where for years he triedto get an agreement
from the former government for a B.N.training program in The Pas. That was not achievable under theformer
administration. When we came to
government, Mr. ActingSpeaker, he became a lobbyist of our government. As a matter offact, he almost made me believe
that he was a Conservative at thetime, but I knew better, and he was trying to
convince theLiberals that he was a Liberal.
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Mr. Acting Speaker, I can tell you that it was under
thisadministration that we were able to achieve a good agreement, Ibelieve, one
which provided for a Bachelor of Nursing Program fornative students in the
community of The Pas. Now I have
notfollowed the program as of recent months, but I can tell you thatit provided
an opportunity for students from northern Manitobaand especially aboriginal
students to become trained and tobecome professionals in the area of nursing. I hope that is aprogram that will continue to
be successful in the future as well.
Mr. Acting Speaker, again this simply shows that
solutions donot come from the top, and indeed people together have to createthe
atmosphere for resolving problems. Together
we have to formpartnerships so that we can go ahead and together
resolveproblems in the best interests of the people that we represent.We have
to remodel our education system. It is
true. That doesnot mean we throw away
the strength of the system. We have
tobuild on the strength, because our system has many good things init.
My children attend a public school. I can tell you that theyget a fairly good
education, but it does not mean that it cannotbe improved and it cannot be
added to. That is what we need todo to
ensure that our children are going to learn so that theycan then compete in a
very competitive society and a verycompetitive world, Mr. Acting Speaker. So let us not sort ofthrow the baby out with
the bath water. Let us ensure that webuild
on the strengths of our system and address the weaknesses,and indeed there are
weaknesses in the system.
Mr. Acting Speaker, I would like to turn my attention
torural
Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): But do you do your work whileyou are
there? That is the other question.
Mr. Derkach: Mr.
Acting Speaker, my rural critic from theLiberal Party asked me whether I do any
work when I am outthere. I invite him to
join me some day and follow me around forthe two days that I am in my
constituency.
Mr. Gaudry: You know
I have been there.
Mr. Derkach: Oh, yes. My colleague says he has been there, andindeed
he has. He has passed through my
constituency severaltimes, but he has found that there is no sense in hanging
aroundbecause everything is in good order.
Point of Order
Mr. Gaudry: On a
point of order, Mr. Acting Speaker, just toremind the honourable member for
Russell that I have been thereand I have done some work. He knows.
We have sat in his officeand we resolved a few problems.
The Acting Speaker (Mr. Sveinson): Order, please. The memberfor St. Boniface does not have a
point of order.
* * *
Mr. Derkach: Mr.
Acting Speaker, as I said, rural
Rural
Our government is indeed committed to rebuilding
andrevitalizing our rural economy, but we cannot do it alone. Wecan be a partner, we can be a catalyst in
the process but much ofthat revitalization has to come from within the
communitiesthemselves. Communities must
be encouraged to seek answers tothe problems that they face and the challenges
that they face.Mr. Acting Speaker, from my travels throughout the
provinceManitobans are prepared to take up that challenge and that hasbecome
evident in community after community.
Again, they are notlooking for handouts, but they are looking for
solutions tocomplex problems that face them.
Mr. Acting Speaker, a couple of days ago I visited
northernManitoba and I visited the communities of Flin Flon, Lynn Lake,we went
up to Thompson, we were in The Pas and while visitingthose communities I first‑hand
saw the‑‑I do not know what youwould call it, but it was a very
demoralizing kind of experiencewhen I drove through the town of Lynn Lake and
we saw theboarded‑up homes, the vandalized homes, a community that
wascertainly looking for some answers and looking for some newindustry that
might emerge in that community. I met
with thecouncil there and it was evident that they did not want just tosee more
money thrown their way so that they could spend and thenthey would be back to
government for more funding.
They wanted to see some assistance in terms of developing
along‑term strategic plan. They
did not want to see what themember for Flin Flon (Mr. Storie) is suggesting,
that we keepdigging for ore even though there is not any ore left
downthere. They did not want any
handouts either.
What they want is a way in which they can find solutions
tothe problems that face them, a strategic plan. Together we areprepared to work with the
community of Lynn Lake and, indeed,their mayor and their council have indicated
very clearly thatthey would welcome people from my department to work with them
inputting together some form of plan where they can become aself‑sustained
community again, perhaps focusing on a differenteconomy than they have seen in
the past. It is difficult andthey
understand that very clearly.
Over the last number of years we have ventured into some
newprogram areas for rural
Mr. Acting Speaker, we have moved over 600 positions out
ofthe city of
On Friday, a decentralization office in Carman was
opened.Although I was not able to be there, my staff tell me that it wasreally
an experience that one had to be there to witness in orderto appreciate the
kind of enthusiasm that there is in thecommunity for welcoming this
decentralization office.
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Not that long ago, I shared a platform with the member
forBrandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans) at a decentralization opening
inBrandon. Although we have taken some
criticism from membersopposite about decentralization and about moving jobs out
ofWinnipeg, I was happy to see that a member of the oppositionunderstood the
importance of decentralization to his community.It is not often easy for
somebody from the opposition to say,yes, decentralization is a good and
important initiative. I haveto give
credit to the member for Brandon East who did stand inthe public and say that
this was a good initiative and hesupported this initiative, and I give him a
lot of credit forbeing able to stand up and say that.
I would like to touch on a few other programs that
areoffered through the Department of Rural Development which I thinkare helping
rural communities find their way, if you like, interms of revitalizing their
economies. A program that wasintroduced
a year or so ago, two years ago, is called theCommunity Choices program. This program, Mr. Acting Speaker, isone which
allows the communities to bring together leadingmembers from their community to
a round table to look at thestrength of the community, develop a vision
statement for thatcommunity and then embark on an action plan in order to
create aneconomic base to attract business into that community, but again,very
structured in the way that they do it because they look atwhat strength that
community has, not unlike what is happening inLynn Lake. The community of
The Community Choices program has been an excellent one
andhas been a very successful one. We
are now finding thatcommunities around this province understand what their
strengthsare, and they are beginning to focus on those strengths. Theyare beginning to build on those strengths
so that it is not ahaphazard approach to economic development. Indeed, it is a veryorganized one and one
which is going to lead to some verypositive results.
To add to the Community Choices program, Mr. Acting
Speaker,we introduced the Rural Economic Development Initiative, morecommonly
known as the REDI program. We indicated
that thisprogram was going to be designed to assist rural communities toaccess
dollars which are generated from the video lotteryterminals to build upon and
indeed to help them develop theireconomic base.
Indeed, it is Ayerst that was the first recipientof the REDI program
when it received a million dollars from theRural Development Initiatives
program.
Mr. Acting Speaker, there are four different programs
underREDI, and indeed communities all around the province are lookingat ways in
which they can access REDI funding.
Indeed we haveover 100 applications, 78 of which are being looked at
veryseriously at the present time.
Another program, Mr. Acting Speaker, which I think is
veryimportant to us is the Grow Bonds program.
I do not need to gointo this except to tell you that we have three very
successfulprojects: one, being the Grow
Bonds program in Teulon which sold$800,000 of Grow Bonds; the other one being
at Morden which soldabout $127,000; and now, most recently, one in Portage,
theSunnex proposal, which will be seeking to sell $220,000 worth ofGrow Bonds. These programs have been exceptional in terms
oftheir success so far, and we look forward to them beinginstruments that
communities can use to build upon and to enhancetheir state in this economy.
Mr. Acting Speaker, to conclude, I would just like to say
theDepartment of Rural Development sees its role in our society asone which
will assist rural communities to invest in themselves,will assist rural
communities to become revitalized, and indeedwill help our province to become a
stronger province than we havebeen in the past, and one which we can look to
the future withoptimism and strength.
(Mr.
Speaker in the Chair)
With that, I see that my light is flashing and it looks
likemy time has expired, but I wish to thank you. [interjection] Oh,I have one
more minute. Well, thank you very much,
Mr. Speaker,you are very generous.
Our department is not addressing many of these
challengesalone. We have taken a
different approach to addressing many ofour challenges in our province. We are working very aggressivelywith the
Department of Agriculture, the Department of Industry,Trade and Tourism, the
Department of Environment, Education,Urban Affairs, Government Services,
Consumer and CorporateAffairs, and Labour and many of the issues that have
beenidentified in rural Manitoba.
Mr. Speaker, when we talk about Tourism, as an example,
it isthe Department of I, T and T that we work with veryco‑operatively. So it is not a one‑department approach
tohelping rural Manitobans; indeed, it is a collective‑governmentapproach
that we use in addressing many of the challenges thatare before us in our
province.
I think
I think that our throne speech does point to a
directionwhich indeed talks about the importance of revitalizing ruralManitoba,
and indeed it is one that should be supported by allmembers of this House, Mr.
Speaker. Thank you very much.
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): I welcome the opportunity, Mr.Speaker, of
joining the Throne Speech Debate again at an openingof another session.
I would like to commence by welcoming the Pages and all
ofthose who have returned again to this Chamber and to wish thePages well in
terms of their jobs, and to welcome you back, Mr.Speaker, into your position as
the Chair and arbitrator of eventsin this House. I look forward to your usual very
efficientmanners of dealing with matters in this House.
I would also like to welcome the two newly elected
members tothe Chamber who already have indicated to me, at least from myvantage
point of someone who has only been here two years myself,that they will
contribute greatly to the discussion in thisChamber, and I sincerely believe that,
Mr. Speaker. We often donot give credit
to people who are elected, given events of thepast few months, to elected
office, and I welcome them to thisChamber and look forward to their
contribution.
I would also like to comment on the loss to the Chamber
ofthe member for Rupertsland, who, in the words eloquently spokenby the member
for Point Douglas (Mr. Hickes), made a contributionto aboriginal people that
will probably never be eclipsed orerased, at least to this juncture in our
country's history.Regardless of what happens from here on in, regardless of
howhistory should turn, I will, I suspect‑‑probably my children
orgrandchildren will say at some point, my grandfather orgreat‑grandfather
sat in the same House as Elijah Harper.
I saidthat to Elijah as a credit to him and all that he has done
torepresent the aspirations of aboriginal people in this country.
I note that the Leader of the Liberal Party (Mrs.
Carstairs)has indicated over the past month or two that she will bestepping
down. I actually am reserving comment,
Mr. Speaker.Because of the ebb and flow of political process in this
country,one never knows, and I have been around politics a long time toknow
that many times members have come up to me at midtermgenerally to say that they
are stepping down, only to find whenthe bell rings again, off to another
election, that they arethere. Should she
go through with her decision, I certainly wishher and her husband a pleasant
period of relaxation andwell‑deserved respite from this Chamber and for
the activitiesthat she has distinguished herself well in this process and
inthis Chamber.
With respect to the throne speech, Mr. Speaker, I wish
Icould stand up in this House and perhaps logically or in anonpolitical sense
discuss this document rationally, but I havegreat difficulty, because the
document itself is very short onnew initiatives and very, very short on
ideas. It basicallyoffends my sense of
politics by virtue of some of the statementsin it. Many of the statements in the throne speech
are rehashesand reworkings of previous government initiatives which have
beenrepackaged as they have been repackaged before and repackagedprior to that
in the two and a half years that I have been inthis Chamber to somehow present
a new face.
It is like a Rubik's Cube. Every time the government at itsweekly
polling gets a new poll out and sees a new face that theyhave to put on, they
kind of flip the Rubik's Cube and try torealign their face for the electorate, but
frankly it is the samecube with only a realignment. It is greatly disappointing.
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Nowhere greater do we see this disappointment and
thishypocrisy than in the area of offloaded taxes. We looked upon itwith great amusement when
the throne speech came down and thegovernment chastised the federal government
for its offloading oftaxes. I found it
incredible that a provincial government, aprovincial regime that has probably
offloaded more taxes than anygovernment in the history of this province, would
have the galland the nerve to stand up and lambaste the federal government
fordoing precisely what the provincial government has done.
Mr. Speaker, we put together a chart outlining what has
beencommonly referred to now around the province as the GFT, and weused
government estimates that are very, very conservative, small"c," I
might add, very small "c" conservative estimates of theoffload on the
property tax portion alone that the Conservativegovernment has offloaded onto
municipalities. It amounts
toapproximately $70 million that has been offloaded onto localtaxpayers; that
is for the education portion alone. That
doesnot account, for the property tax portion of the municipalassessment,
strictly educational loan. This has been
offloadedonto school divisions, while, at the same time, the government
issaying, prioritize your programs, tighten your belts. At thesame time, what they are forcing
divisions to do is cut backprograms, cut back services and raise taxes at the
local level sothat the Premier (Mr. Filmon), the member for Tuxedo, can
proceedto indicate that he, like George Bush‑‑read his lips‑‑has
notraised taxes.
The lips should really say, we have not raised taxes
exceptlocal property taxes. We have not
raised taxes except educationtaxes. We
have not raised taxes except every single permit,licence, everything that moves
that has been taxed. There was atime
during the regime of Sterling Lyon, they said thateverything was taxed but the
tips on crutches, Mr. Speaker. Weare
achieving those goals again as everything gets taxed in thisprovince to allow
the member for Tuxedo to say we have not raisedtaxes, but everyone in the
province knows that it has been anoffload.
I wish the government would have the intellectual honesty
toat least admit that, at least to have the intellectual capacityto come to
grips with the fact that they have offloaded ahorrendous extent upon the
taxpayers of this province. We haveyet
to hear a word from members of that side of the Houseacknowledging that this,
in fact, has taken place.
We had an occasion, Mr. Speaker, for the Premier last
week tofinally, on behalf of the government, confront the Prime Ministerabout
the damage that the Conservative policies had wreaked uponthe
I sincerely believe that this particular federal
governmentin power now has done more to wreak havoc on not only theCanadian
economy, but the Canadian national psyche than any otherprevious regime. The sooner this government is taken out
ofoffice, the better it will be for all Canadians. If it couldhappen before Christmas, I would
welcome it with open arms,because I sincerely believe that. I can tell you that certainlyin my own
constituency, it is reflected in the comments ofeveryone that I meet at the
door.
I do want to diverge slightly on a point that I wish to
makeabout events in my own constituency, and that is we all know thatthe lot of
the politician has been lowered somewhat in the eyesof the general
elective. We generally are not held as
in greatesteem as perhaps we would like to or perhaps many of us feelshould be
the case. Frankly, I believe that the
Mulroneygovernment has done more, the Prime Minister in particular, tolower the
spectrum and the level of politics in this country thanany other politician in
a good deal of time, Mr. Speaker.
Again,once the Prime Minister is removed from the scene, I think thatall
of us will function much more effectively and perhaps someform of credibility
can again return to the political process,something that has been lacking as a
result of that particularregime in power.
Discussing my own constituency of Kildonan, I have had
thepleasure to be able to continue my door‑knocking and my contactwith
constituents. It certainly is the case
that the economicdownturn, finally admitted by members opposite to be a
recession,has affected the people of Kildonan like all people of theprovince of
I am struck by the number of students, married and
otherwise,who are at home with their parents.
I am struck by the number ofadults that I have talked to, who tell me in
conversation thatthey are advising their children to leave the province when
theygraduate. I am struck by the number
of occasions I have come toa home and both working adults in the home do not
have jobs. Itis a very tough economic
plight out there and anything that we inthis Chamber can do to improve the lot
and to improve theeconomic situation, anything that we can do will be of
benefit,because of the hardship that it has wreaked upon people acrossthe
province, and I see it on a daily basis.
Another very disturbing aspect that I see on a regular
basis,although I do not see it in regular door‑knocking, is the effectof
changes to the Workers Compensation Board.
I do not know howto hammer it home any more deeply, Mr. Speaker, than to
say it isastounding how many occasions I have been in the homes ofindividuals
who have been on workers compensation who have beendeemed or cut off and they
are left with no choice, there are nojobs available, there is no compensation
available. The onlything available is,
perhaps, social assistance. Many of thesepeople
never thought the day that they were injured that theywould be forced in this
situation to seek social assistance forsomething they believed in the past was
a right, and that is aright to be remedied by society for injuries obtained at
work, aright for which we have all given up our right to sue and manyother
rights, but that does not seem to cut much ice with some ofthe very regressive
changes that have been introduced by thisregime at the Workers Compensation
Board. It never fails toamaze me what a
significant hardship these individuals areencountering.
Health care is a huge concern of people in the
constituencythat I represent. The lack
of home care, some of the conditionsthat are now occurring in the hospitals,
the so‑called reform andlack of community services that are in place, the
lack ofservices to mental health patients and those with psychiatricillnesses
come up over and over again. Virtually
no one isuntouched by those kinds of concerns.
We on this side of the House are going to take a
proactivestance, Mr. Speaker, by sponsoring public meetings to try tobring to
the government's attention some of the concerns that areoccurring out there on
a daily basis with respect to health care,by sponsoring a series of meetings,
the first of which will betomorrow in the constituency that I represent. The health careconcern is uppermost in the
minds of the constituents of the areathat I represent.
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There is also an underlying concern, Mr. Speaker, in
theconstituency with respect to security and safety. Break‑ins, ifnot in actual fact,
apparently appear to be up, and there is agood deal of concern, particularly
amongst the elderly, aboutpublic safety.
While I recognize that that cannot be dealt withovernight, I am convinced
that we must double our efforts to tryto deal with concerns of personal safety
for our citizens in thecommunity, because it is expressed to me over and over
and overagain. We must put more
resources back into the communities, andwe must assist our enforcement officers
and others to try to dealwith this concern as it exists in the community,
because thereare concerns.
I might add to that end, we in the New Democratic Party
areagain sponsoring in this Chamber a resolution dealing withviolence on
television, again as one of our efforts and one ofour concerns that we are
raising to try to bring to the attentionof the public and to the members of
this Chamber what negativeeffect it can have.
I note that the inspector dealing with the youth division
ofthe City of Winnipeg Police Department again reiterated that facttoday, this
morning, on the front page of the Free Press when heindicated that there is no
doubt in his mind that some of theincrease in youth crime is as a result of the
effect of thetelevision transmission from Detroit, contrary to what
hadpreviously been the case when we had television transmission fromGrand Forks
and other more similar jurisdictions to our own.
I think there is some accuracy in that, which is why we
arelooking to all members of this House to support us when it comesto dealing
with the issue of violence on television and which iswhy we have brought the
resolution forward again this session andwhy we will be pushing for the
adoption of this resolution,because I have said many, many times in this
Chamber, when itcomes to matters of justice or matters of personal safety,
Mr.Speaker, it is sort of like the Fram Oil commercial: You pay menow or you will pay me a lot more
later. Certainly anything thatwe could
do to prevent even one youth or one person from enteringthat slippery slope of
the criminal justice system is money wellspent and is activity well spent.
I now turn, Mr. Speaker, to an area that I spend a fair
bitof time in, and that is the area of education. There is a wealthof material. Unfortunately, most of the material is
lacking onthe government's part of nonactivity that one could deal with. Iwill try to get through as much as I can in
the minutes allocatedto me.
I guess in the first instance, Mr. Speaker, I listened
veryattentively to the comments of the present Minister of Education(Mrs.
Vodrey) outlining the government's program for educationreform. I received just as much from those comments
as I didfrom reading the throne speech, which amounts to nothing otherthan
platitudes and verbiage and rehashes of previous statementsthat had been put
forward by the government. [interjection]
I tried. The
member for
In fact, when I look at the Throne Speech Debate and have
alook at the throne speech itself, I see that the very claims thatare made
inside the throne speech have already been announced bythe government. For example, the government promised: "Mygovernment has listened to public
demand," for example, "foraccurate student achievement
measures." I look to Strategy 62
ofthe government's own Answering the Challenge, this poorlyimplemented
document, dated June 1990. That promise
is alreadythere‑‑June 1990.
Throne speech, November 1992‑‑the two, how dothey
connect? A re‑promise of an old
promise.
I look further on, Mr. Speaker, to the government's
report:"My government will place greater emphasis on policies andprograms leading
towards producing sound reading, mathematics andlearning skills." I again look to the government's
documents. Ilook to Strategies 67
through to 69, and it is the same pledge,the same program. Why was it promised in June 1990, and now
itis being announced in the throne speech, November 1992?
So I listened with great attentiveness, I will again
repeat,great attentiveness, to the comments of the Minister of Education(Mrs.
Vodrey), saying, what is that program that they are goingto announce? What is the accountability? What I heard was,again, the commitments to
accountability and the commitments tothese concepts that have already been
previously announced andhave previously been put in.
Mr. Speaker, what is lacking, the minister said finally,
thatwhat they are going to introduce is a new education act in theprovince,
something we have been calling for for two years inthis House. The minister put in place a process last
year, wherethey structured meetings all across the province, and theminister was
to be provided with a summary of those meetings inthe spring of 1992.
I do not think the minister knew what she was going to
dowith the results of those discussions, except now they say theyare going to
have more public hearings which, frankly, are veryhard to object to, Mr.
Speaker. The fact is that education is
asignificant issue, and members of the public want to have someinput into those
discussions.
What has happened is, the government has said, we are
goingto have public hearings. They have
produced a document withabout 89 questions in it, held public hearings,
received theresults from those public hearings.
They are eight monthsbehind.
Nonetheless, the minister has received that document.Now they are going
to have more public hearings. It just
showsthe disjointed effort of this government.
One tends to believe,and I think accurately, that it is mostly an
exercise in publicrelations.
I will predict that this entire review of The Public
SchoolsAct is being brought in, Mr. Speaker, as a public relationsgesture, as
something to hold out there to the educationcommunity to say, this is what we
are going to do in education,and they are going to produce a document that is
probably goingto be all things to all people and say, that is Conservativereform;
we are listening to what you are doing.
I dare suggestthat this is in fact the case. [interjection] Well, I
mean, thatis the government's choice.
I asked the minister last week to publicly provide us
withcopies of the reports of these public hearings that the ministeris now
reviewing to have other public hearings on.
She said,well, she just received it and she could not review it. Isuspect they will do the same thing that they
did with thereports of the minister's education committee on finance, andthat
is, they will not release it.
In fact, we were forced to release the leaked
documentbecause the public of
I suspect at some point the government will release some
kindof sanitized version of those public hearings prior to the newpublic
hearings that will be taking place to determine The PublicSchools Act.
With respect to reform, Mr. Speaker, we see about a third
orfourth phase of this Conservative government as it moves to itsmandate, ever
getting closer to the next deadline which isanother election, and I dare say it
is already too late toimplement any of the meaningful reforms.
We are going to be‑‑[interjection] I welcome
that. I must bemaking‑‑and
we will be moving towards the election.
I daresuggest the government is already too late to rehash andrevitalize
those reforms, Mr. Speaker, for a government that hasfailed miserably to set
any kind of leadership whatsoever in thearea of education, to take any kind of
stance to properly put inplace a funding policy that adequately reflects the
needs of thisgovernment.
(Mr.
Jack Penner, Acting Speaker, in the Chair)
You know, when you look through the throne speech and
youlook through what the government promised in education, there issomething
sorely lacking, Mr. Acting Speaker.
There is no talkof equity. There
is no talk of access. One of the
foremostdifficulties facing education in this province is the lack ofaccess,
lack of equity, but we hear nary a word on that side ofthe House about
equity. We hear nothing about
equity. Thesupposed champions of rural
I toured rural
*
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Where is the co‑ordinated approach, Mr. Acting
Speaker? I amglad we are joined by the
member for Pembina (Mr. Orchard).Where is the co‑ordinated approach in
terms of this governmentand its approach to education? There has been a report sittingon the desk of
the minister; indeed, it sat on the desk of theprevious minister, the member
for Roblin‑Russell (Mr. Derkach).It was given to him in December
1991. It asks for the governmentresponse
and a government action plan on the co‑ordination ofservices to
children. It was given to the government
in thespring of 1991, and have we heard a response or a peep frommembers on the
opposite side about a co‑ordinated approach? No,we have just had one ball fumbled after
another, and there is nobetter example of fumbling balls than to look at the
question ofthe hiring of the audiologist.
The Department of Health cut $80,000 from a budget
toWinnipeg School Division No. 1 that assisted in the hiring of anaudiologist,
Mr. Acting Speaker, and when they cut thatprogram‑‑and the members
opposite still do not understand theimplication, so I will again try to explain
it to them. Whenthey cut that program
they jeopardized a prescreening programthat was put in place by School Division
No. 1 in order to catchhearing impairments of children in order to prevent
difficultiesfrom occurring in the school system. They cut the grant. TheMinister of Health (Mr. Orchard) did not
even tell the Ministerof Education (Mrs. Vodrey), who admitted that in this
Chamber.He did not even tell the Minister of Education that this grantwas being
cut, because she stood up and said, I will havediscussions with the Minister of
Health. The grant was cut andthe program
was cut and the school division, sensing the need fora program of that kind,
had to go on its own resources in orderto pay for the cost of that audiologist.
Now, the reason it is so significant, Mr. Acting Speaker,
isagain, by catching the hearing impaired, by catching childrenwith difficulty
at a very early stage, you are able to preventthese difficulties from occurring
later on in the school system,but we have had no response from members on that
side of theHouse to the program or the plan that was put forward by MAST,MASBO,
MASS and other organizations calling for a co‑ordinatedapproach to
government activities. We are still
waiting. As Iunderstand, there is some
kind of cabinet subcommittee that istrying to come to grips with that
difficulty.
I listened with great care and attention to the comments
ofthe Minister of Education (Mrs. Vodrey) at a public forum Iattended about two
weeks ago where the matter was discussed, butshe said not a word about that
issue, although it wasspecifically laid out on the agenda as a major concern to
beaddressed. There is nary a word
mentioned in the throne speechnor by members opposite.
It continues when you look at the fiasco that occurred,
theterrible situation that occurred, that was raised by the memberfor
Mr. Acting Speaker, I was also interested to hear some of
theconcerns raised by the Liberal Party with respect to educationreform. Now all of this must be taken with a grain of
salt,because we also attended a public forum about two weeks ago wherethe
Liberal critic was to address the issue of extending theschool year. The whole question was extending of the schoolyear,
and supposedly it is part of the Liberal Party platform toextend the school
year to allow more time for teaching so‑calledbasics, although the
Liberal critic, when she came and tested thewind, as often done by the Liberal
Party, and discovered it wasnot a popular move out there said, oh no, that is
not Liberalpolicy. It is not
Liberal. It was just a suggestion by
ourLeader, just a suggestion for discussion.
Mind you, if thepolitical wind had been blowing that way, it would not
have beena suggestion, just as the member for
I was very interested to see that the Liberal
educationreform came down squarely on the side of that of the government.In
legal terms, they often call that tweedledee and tweedledum.I noticed that the
Liberal Party has suggested corporate taxbreaks to allow companies to train
Manitobans. That is just whatwe need in
Manitoba, more corporate tax breaks, after thegovernment has thrown up its hands
and literally put millions ofdollars into the hands of companies to train and
retrain in thisprovince where we have one of the most miserable records
oftraining and where we have had dramatic cutbacks to our publiceducation
system.
Training colleges and training groups are springing up likemushrooms
around this province. Individuals are
doing privatetraining because they are getting the funds extended to them
bythis provincial government, and the Liberal Party says, more taxbreaks; we
need to give more tax credits to large companies totrain. I sincerely hope that the members of the
public will takethat with a grain of salt.
I was also very interested to hear the comments of
theLiberal Party, the Liberal program for time‑out schools
forstudents. I found it very, very
surprising. I have certainlylooked to
the Liberal Party to try to explain itself on thisissue, as to what reference
they are making to time‑out schools,in terms of its comments and how it
relates to education in theprovince of Manitoba where we have the sorry
spectacle of astudent and his parents being forced to bring a civil suit in
thearea of education in order to resolve the issue, which brings meto the point
of our very valid suggestion, our very significantsuggestion, that the Office
of the Ombudsman should have itspowers extended to that of school boards. This would certainlyallow parents and
students to have an opportunity to remedydifficulties and remedy any concerns
that are taking place at theschool board level.
What happens now, Mr. Acting Speaker, quite typically, is
aconcern arises at the school board level.
It is attempted to beresolved. If
it cannot be resolved, the letter goes to theminister. The minister writes back and says, I cannot
doanything about it; it is the school board's jurisdiction. Theschool boards say, we cannot do anything
about it, and the mattersits somewhere in limbo.
I know of at least half a dozen cases‑‑at
least half. Thereare many, many more
where these things are in complete limbo.The lack of government initiative and
the lack of governmentdirection has resulted in these problems not being
solved. It isunfortunate that students
and parents must come to this state ofhaving to sue the school division or the
minister in order toobtain some kind of redress.
I reviewed briefly the Estimates process of approximately
ayear and a half ago when I asked about the appeals procedures putin place for
special exceptional children, and the Minister ofEducation at the time told me
the guidelines were working so wellthat no one had even accessed the appeal
panel process in place,and I note, the present minister, when we initially made
oursuggestion concerning the extension of the Office of theOmbudsman said there
are all kinds of procedures in place.
Well, the fact is that no one has used those
proceduresbecause many individuals are not aware that those procedures arein
place, and I believe that all members should join us inattempting to extend
this solution, which would be a very readysolution, and not‑‑you
know, bills of rights as suggested by theLiberal Party are fine, and all kinds
of suggestions, butimmediately, we could put in place a process and a procedure
thatwould allow students and allow parents to have redress of wrongsthat
occurred at the school division level or attempt to come togrips with what is
government policy and what is not governmentpolicy, and heaven knows, that is a
difficult thing to ascertainthese days from the government as they flip around
and go backand forth with respect to their education policies, Mr.
ActingSpeaker.
It is a difficult area, but a very ready solution exists
interms of the Ombudsman issue which is one reason why we have putso much
emphasis on it. [interjection] If the
member for Pembina(Mr. Orchard) had been paying attention, he would have heard
mego through it the last five minutes, and he would have been ableto see what
ready resolve that was to it, but he has chosen, ashe has done on many other
issues, not to pay attention to theobvious, Mr. Acting Speaker, and to continue
with the tired oldTory rhetoric. Well,
we are two years into the mandate, and thetime is rapidly running out for this
government to even begin toput into effect any of its initiatives, other than a
rehashing ofthe old promises in a document that has already been cut toribbons
by members on this side of the House and by the publicwith respect to no new
ideas and no new suggestions in thisparticular document.
It is a tragedy that the Minister of Health (Mr.
Orchard),the member for Pembina, is trying well into the mandate to try
tosalvage some kind of respect for the health care system and senda reform
package at this point in time when it is well into hismandate, Mr. Acting
Speaker, and it is so far gone that thegovernment cannot turn it around. It is tragic because it is thepeople of
*
(1610)
So, Mr. Acting Speaker, there is much to be said with
respectto the area of education and a lack of activity on the part ofthis
government. I have made numerous,
numerous comments in thisHouse on many occasions with respect to the funding
and theinequities and the unfairness of the funding model that exists inthis
province. When the funding model was put
in‑‑I rememberwhen we announced what difficulties they would have
with thefunding model, the minister came out rather shocked and surprisedand
said that we were all wrong, but we have been, of course,proven 100 percent
accurate in terms of the difficulties thatoccurred with the funding model.
The first thing they had to do after putting in place
thefunding model was put in place supplementary funding to augmentthe
implementation of the funding model, Mr. Acting Speaker,because it did not work,
and then they had to have another pressconference to augment those funds again
because it still did notwork.
Now the minister says they are having group meetings
andcontinuing to meet to try to make the system work because itobviously does
not work, and in that whole period of time whenthey have offloaded onto school
divisions to the tune of, as Iindicated earlier in my speech, at least $70
million, usinggovernment figures of $70 million, we have lost hundreds
ofteaching positions and other positions.
Class sizes have grownlarger; programs have been lost, particularly in
rural andnorthern
All of this has been occurring, precisely what we
predictedwould happen with the new funding model, and it will only getworse, I
dare say, when the supplemental funding that was put inplace to try to ease in
this unwieldy structure runs out inanother year. And only then will we see the serious
effects.
We have already heard from the residents in the member
forArthur's (Mr. Downey) constituency as to the dramatic effects itis having on
that particular constituency. If you
look at thestatistics and you look at the Conservative plan that they wouldfund
80 percent of education costs, and you look at how far belowthe 80 percent they
have now sunk, it is‑‑well, I will not evenrepeat it into the
record, Mr. Acting Speaker, but I will providethe statistics to any member on
that side of the House who maywish to review the statistics. I might add, they are allgovernment numbers;
they are not our numbers. They are
thenumbers that we have put together based on governmentdocumentation, and they
are quite conservative projections atthat.
We look for the government to implement some kind‑‑for
sometime we have been waiting on this side of the House for some kindof
movement on the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, and we havereceived no action, Mr.
Acting Speaker. It is very
unfortunatewhen one considers all during the process the minister keptassuring
the House that, once the report was received, actionwould take place
quickly. It has been very disappointing
tothose of us who believed that this report, which is a watershed,I would
suggest, in judicial history, perhaps even Canadianhistory, has been so
overlooked, and there have been noinitiatives whatsoever taken by this
government on many of theproposals in the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry. It is indeedunfortunate and a major
disappointment to all Manitobans who arewaiting for some action, even the most
simple action that couldeasily be put in place, and it simply has not taken
place.
I note the flashing red light; with those comments, that
willconclude my comments on the throne speech.
Thank you, Mr. ActingSpeaker.
Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (St. Norbert): Mr. Acting Speaker, it isindeed a pleasure to
stand before the Assembly as a legislator,and as a representative of the fine
people of St. Norbert.
Allow me to give thanks through you, Mr. Acting Speaker,
toMr. Speaker for upholding the dignity and honour of the Chair.His judgment,
his fairness and humour do the House a greatservice.
Mr. Acting Speaker, I would also like to acknowledge
thetireless efforts of the Hansard staff.
They record the businessof the House with expediency and accuracy, no
simple task, Imight add, given the verbosity of some of the esteemed members.
I would also like to acknowledge the Clerks of the House,
andwelcome Judy White, and I am sure she will enjoy her work herewith the other
clerks who have been of great assistance to myselfand all other members of the
House.
Finally, Mr. Acting Speaker, the youth and vigour brought
tothis House by the Pages of the Assembly cannot be understated. Ifeel fortunate to have the assistance of
Karen Tymofichuk in theHouse this Session.
Karen is a constituent of St. Norbert, so wecan expect great things from
her. I am sure that all of
theirexperiences in the House will leave them with lastingimpressions,
hopefully, positive ones.
Mr. Acting Speaker, let me welcome the new members to
theLegislature, first from
I would also like to welcome the member for Crescentwood
(Ms.Gray) in the House. I knew her
before her political careerstarted, and I have always enjoyed listening to some
of hercomments, even though I did not always agree with them.
Mr. Acting Speaker, some of past members who are no
longerwith us, I really considered friends‑‑Mr. Connery from
The past member for Crescentwood, Mr. Carr, I always
enjoyedhis speeches. He was always
positive and on positive notes, butI do hope Mr. Carr remembers that he owes me
a few cigarettes.
Mr. Harper, I do owe him a large hand of applause
forteaching me more about the aboriginal issues than I ever did knowuntil he
came onto the scene. I had some talks
with Mr. Harper,the member for Rupertsland, and he helped me to understand
someof the concerns and the directions that had to be taken. I thinkthat the Legislature will truly miss
him.
I would like to take a moment to extend my best wishes to
theLeader of the Liberal Party (Mrs. Carstairs) as she has announcedher
intentions to step down. I wish her well
in her futureendeavours, and I am sure John is going to appreciate having
Mr. Speaker, there have been some great things happening
inmy constituency since the last session of the House. The peopleof St. Norbert have made valuable
contributions to the community,and I would like to share some of them with you
today. OnSaturday, December 5, the St.
Norbert Children's Centrecelebrated the official opening. It was because of volunteerismfrom a board of
directors from the children's centre that thisproject came to fruition. The volunteers had a dream, and thatdream
became a reality only on this Saturday with 92 new placesunder one roof. They were able to amalgamate the three
unitsthat they had in St. Norbert as one.
(Mr.
Speaker in the Chair)
The community and myself would also like to thank
thegovernment and particularly the Minister of Culture and Heritageand Citizenship
(Mrs. Mitchelson). There will be
someinteresting activity around the centre because of the funding forthis
project. I am confident that the
facility will provideyears of service to the constituents of St. Norbert and
will be amodel for other communities to follow.
*
(1620)
Thanks to the support of the Minister of Highways
andTransportation (Mr. Driedger) and the City of
I am pleased to recognize the ongoing efforts of the
St.Norbert Foundation. The foundation
continues to provide thevital services of a residential treatment centre for
those whosuffer from alcohol and chemical abuse. The foundation operatesa 72‑bed
facility, including a 12‑bed adolescent male treatmentcentre called Lemay
House, and another 12‑bed facility providingcare for adolescent females
called the Kirkess house. I foundthe
philosophy of the St. Norbert Foundation deeply profound, andI would like to
share it with you today, Mr. Speaker.
The philosophy is based on the belief that no person is
anisland and that self‑help comes from helping others. Thepositive power that resides in everyone
can overcome the negativeaspects of life.
If we are to learn and to teach, we must attachourselves to an
environment that is created and dedicated to thebetterment of humanity. We cannot cross a desert until we
haveprepared ourselves, and we cannot travel the road of life blamingthose
about us, but rather we must accept responsibility forourselves and each other
and conquer each situation that wemeet.
Our paths have been written and cannot be erased.
Therefore we must work and concentrate for today with
avision of tomorrow. No one can fail if
they are helping afailure, and no one can lose if they are winning.
The government of
Mr. Speaker,
Along the way, there will be new opportunities for
allManitobans. Through economic
development programs, businessassistance programs, and through the education
and retraining ofour work force, the days of tax and spend, Mr. Speaker,
arethankfully behind us. I have seen
time and time again howregulations distort economic incentives, raise costs to
businessand consumers.
The government realizes that competitive economies try
tokeep regulations at an essential minimum, and I could not agreemore, Mr.
Speaker. Lately I have heard many dire
and pessimisticcomments about the state of Manitoba's economy, and I am
oftenreminded of a quote from Charles Handy's book, The Age of Reason,which
strikes at the heart of what I would like the House toremember today.
Handy wrote: The
future we predict today is not inevitable,but we influence it if we know what
we want it to be. We cantake charge of
our own destinies in a time of change.
The path to a better tomorrow must however be decided upontoday,
and I applaud the government's direction.
True to this spirit, my colleagues and I were delighted
toparticipate in the Manitoba Economic Innovation Forum held inOctober. And for the benefit of the Leaders of the
oppositionparties who were conspicuously absent from this forum, allow meto
explain what you missed.
To take charge of our economic destinies, a commitment
whichthis government has made for Manitobans, we must make investmentsin our
capital, in our technology and in our infrastructure, inresearch and
development and most importantly in the educationand training of our most
precious resources, and that is ourpeople.
Mr. Speaker, the honourable member for Thompson (Mr.
Ashton)says, I should get a different speech writer, but at least I donot have
Susan Hart‑Kulbaba writing mine.
While our government has made advances in the development
ofnew technologies, in R&D, for example, in the areas ofpharmaceuticals,
and continues to provide infrastructural supportfor it, it must also be noted
that we have made inroads into thefields of education and training. In 1874, Prime MinisterDisraeli said of
Mr. Speaker, we have established the University
ReviewCommission, which will make recommendations on betteringpost‑secondary
education in this province.
Mr. Speaker, this government is committed to excellence
ineducation, and it shows, not like the past government. Ours is aknowledge‑dependent
economy. This means that economic value
andthe potential for greater productivity depends on the generationof ideas, on
the manipulation of ideas and on the ability ofworkers to continue and upgrade
their skills. Accordingly, Icommend the
government for its Workforce 2000 program, now in itssecond year of operation.
Mr. Speaker, most of us grew up during an age when a
strongback counted most. Today,
virtually every industry or businessyou can name is knowledge intensive. So while most of us grew upin a more
industrial age and, as a consequence, cannot set theclocks on our VCRs, our
children must operate in a highlycompetitive and rapidly changing
marketplace. The government hasrealized
this and created Project Real World.
Project Real World, Mr. Speaker, for the benefit of those
inopposition who probably have not read any of the brochures on it,is an
initiative which provides young people with the practicalexperience, skills and
knowledge their economic futures demand.I categorically support this
initiative, and I think we owe it toour children.
Preparing our children to compete in a
competitivemarketplace is but one component of the government's
prosperityplan. Just as the future of
the province must adapt to technicalinnovation, so too we must adapt to the
demands of a globaleconomy. Global
economy is no longer just a buzzword.
Thisprovince is doubly blessed.
Nature's generous bounty makes usrich in natural resources and material
wealth and, of course, theindustrious resolve of
The Mineral Exploration Incentive Program offers
taxablegrants equal to 25 percent of their investment upon completion ofa
project. The Minister of Energy and Mines
(Mr. Downey) knowsthat this incentive will help tap
Nowhere is the government's commitment to open
*
(1630)
As we move toward the 21st Century, Mr. Speaker, so too
mustour industries. I have already
commented on our mining andagricultural industries and the government's
strategy for globalcompetitiveness, but what about our human resources industry?
Take, for example, the health care industry.
This government is targeting areas of the health care
marketin order to ensure the most rational delivery system inManitoba. Mr. Speaker, I have attempted to stay
verynonpartisan, and I will stick to the issue.
The new fiscal realities of this federal government
pullingout of funding vital programs means that service deliveries mustbe
targeted. It means that we must spend
proportionately more onpatient care and less on administration. It means that we cannotsimply throw money at
the system in hopes that it will solve theproblem, Mr. Speaker. There will have to be some tough
decisionsmade on service delivery and on targeting, but we must face
thesedecisions. I know that the judgment
of the government will, asalways, be tempered with caring and compassion. Unlike withgovernments before, this one can
ill afford to spend its way outof contemporary problems. Quite simply, it is not an option, andwhile
this is admittedly not always the politically popularcourse of action, the
government of Manitoba would do the peopleof this province a disservice if they
were to tax and spend asthose before us have done.
Mr. Speaker, allow me to remind the House that democracy
is aword about compromise, and this government has come to acompromise‑‑balancing
the physical imperatives with socialeconomic development needs. Guided by this throne speech, we arenow on
the path to competitive success while keeping in step withthose who are slow to
follow.
Monsieur le President, nous sommes fiers d'avoir ici
auManitoba un quartier francais. Nous
allons avoir la chance decelebrer encore une fois avec les Voyageurs au
Festival duVoyageur. Nous dans la
communaute francophone avons appris‑‑cafait longtemps‑‑que
c'est la joie de vivre ici au
[Translation]
Mr. Speaker, we are proud to have here in
[English]
Mr. Speaker, I know it
is easy to sit in your seat and heckleand become very sinister almost about
where the economy is going,but I think it is time that we all have a positive
outlook onlife. I think it is time that
we stop looking at all thenegative issues that are put forth. I think it is time that theNDP start saying
what is positive about this province and what ispositive about our
communities. Stop being so
negative. Startlooking at the positive
issues. What do you have in
yourconstituency that you are proud of?
Is there something? I havenot
heard those positive issues coming forward from that side, sostop the
negativism. It is your problem that the
negativism isout there, and when you start being positive you will see
theturnaround. Those who are negative do
not create positive acts.So, please, for your constituents and for this
province, changeyour attitudes. Look at
the bright side. There is a future
foreveryone, and the sooner you look at the bright future for all ofus and
start seeing the real factor out there. [interjection]
The honourable member for
Mr. Speaker, it has been an interesting year for me. I wouldlike to thank all the members for
their assistance over thesummer and all the people of my constituency who have
stoodbehind me. We, in my community, are
looking at the positiveaspects of life.
We, in our community, are looking into thefuture for our children and
our grandchildren. We realize thatyou
cannot spend your way out.
We do believe in the programs but somewhere there has to
bereality. It is easy to put forward a
lot of ideas. It is easyto make
promises, but I want each and every member over there torealize the reality,
the reality that there is no more money.
Itall comes from one pocket. You
have to realize thatthrough‑‑[interjection] There they go again,
spend, spend,spend. They never come
forward with a positive approach and thatis adding where they would find those
dollars within.
Mr. Speaker, it is easy to sit there and criticize, but
atleast some of the members from the Liberal Party have comeforward with some
justifiable alternatives. I give credit
tothose members from the Liberal Party who came forward with thosestatements,
but I have not found any of that.
We have to become very responsible in today's future, not
forourselves, but for all Manitobans. I
think that is whatManitobans are looking for.
I think they would like to be ableto respect those of us who are
representing them here in theprovince, all 57 of us. So let us set aside our partisanpolitics and
work together. [interjection] Fifty‑six, as of now,but let us set aside
our partisan politics and work together forthe future of
Mr. Speaker, I am encouraged and enthused by the
directionthe government is taking. I can
see a bright future on thehorizon. I
would like to congratulate all the members of cabinetand our Premier (Mr.
Filmon) for leading us into the future.With the guidance that this government
has, we will go a longways into the next millennium. Thank you.
Ms. Becky Barrett (
As Speaker of the House, you have been a very
fair,honourable, just Speaker and have had to deal with some verydifficult
issues. We all appreciate your
abilities, your senseof humour and your justice.
I also would like to welcome the Pages who have been selectedto
work with us this session. They will put
in long hours andwill be required to do many jobs on behalf of the members of
theLegislature. We welcome them as
partners in our deliberationsthis term.
Again, I would also like to add my welcome to the two
newfaces this session: the member for
Portage (Mr. Pallister), whohas joined us this session as a new MLA and has
certainly learnedseveral lessons as an MLA very quickly, having delivered a
veryinteresting Speech from the Throne address and having learnedsome of the
other rules and challenges of the House and some ofthe occupations that members
of the House occupy themselves with;and also, the member for Crescentwood (Ms.
Gray). It is arewelcoming to the member
for Crescentwood after a couple ofyears outside the political process.
Mr. Speaker, what I would like to talk about today is
theSpeech from the Throne, what is and what is not in the Speechfrom the
Throne. I believe this is the sixth
throne speech thatthe government has delivered since it was first elected in
1988.I wish I could say that this was a new Speech from the Throne,that it had
some energy, some life, some vitality, some verve,some vigour, any one of those
positive, forward‑looking actionwords, but I am afraid that I am unable
to do so.
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It is not because I look only on the negative side. It isthat I read what is in the Speech from
the Throne. I have readwhat is not in
the Speech from the Throne. I listen to
thepeople of
Mr. Speaker, this is a tired old government. You can be oldat a very young age, and I
would suggest that this government hasshown absolutely no energy or youth in any
of its deliberationsover the past four and a half years, five budgets and six
thronespeeches.
It has lost touch with the people of
I fully intend to participate in the process in the
nextprovincial election to make sure that the old, tired
ProgressiveConservative government in this province gets its due and
justrewards, a long and healthy retirement.
Mr. Speaker, the Progressive Conservative government
inManitoba along with its federal Progressive Conservative cousinsin
(Mr. Bob Rose, Acting Speaker, in the Chair)
In
In the
In
I would like to speak very briefly, Mr. Acting Speaker,
aboutissues and the reality that face the people of Manitoba and thepeople of
Canada, things that the members of the government donot want to talk about,
things that are not happy, things thatare not bright.
I think it is important that we not just "look on
the brightside of life" as the member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau)
saidin his remarks, but it is important that we look at the realityof what is
going on in our world. I find it very
interestingthat that phrase "look on the bright side of life" first
saw thelight of day during the depression of the 1930s when there weremany
musicals put out in America that tried to take people'sminds off the current
financial, social and economic troublesthat were facing them.
One of the most popular songs from that era had as its
theme,"look on the bright side of life." These Conservatives today aredoing exactly
the same things that Herbert Hoover did in theearly 1930s, exactly the same
thing that John Major is attemptingto do in Britain today, exactly the same
thing that George Bushand Ronald Reagan in the U.S. attempted to do, which is
not payattention to the needs and the aspirations of the majority oftheir
citizenry but to speak only for and listen only to thelarge corporate agenda.
Mr. Acting Speaker, nationally what is happening to us
isthat we are going through the worst economic conditions since the1930s
recession. We had a recession in 1981-82
which technicallywas a deeper and sharper recession than the one that we
arecurrently involved in. Technically,
according to some economicindicators, we were supposedly out of this recession
in April of1991.
However, unlike the recession of 1981‑82, we really
are notout of the recession in any way.
We have not come out of thisrecession nearly as well as we did
before. In 1983, after the'81‑82
recession, the economy in Canada had a growth rate of 3.2percent, and in 1984,
6.2 percent, due in no small part to theactivist government such as those in
Manitoba that were committedto job creation as the basis of the economic
recovery. However,in this current
economic session between the second quarter of1991, i.e., July of 1991, just a
year and a half ago, and July of1992, our output grew by six‑tenths of 1
percent. Now this issupposedly while we
are out of a recession. In other words,
theeconomy, as a result of the end of the 1981‑82 recession, grewfive
times faster than it did in the first year that we weretechnically out of this
recession.
Mr. Acting Speaker, we believe that a large part of
thedifference in that performance can be attributed to the federaland
provincial political and trade policies that were in place in1991 versus 10
years earlier. The federal government
and theProgressive Conservative government in
Our unemployment statistics we all know are dreadful
thesedays. The unemployment rate is well
over 11 percent nationally,and in October there were 55,000 unemployed
Manitobans‑‑55,000.Fifty‑five thousand families in
The unemployment rate continues to be high, Mr.
ActingSpeaker, because the total number of jobs in the economycontinues to
shrink. In August this year, the number
of full-time jobs fell to a new low after a staggering fall of129,000 jobs in
In addition, there are almost one million Canadians who
areemployed in part‑time jobs who want full‑time jobs. Mr. ActingSpeaker, speaking as a woman, I am
really appalled at the tollthat these economic figures have taken on the women
of Manitobaand
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Mr. Acting Speaker, in 1991 for the first time since
the1950s, in 40 years, for the first time in 40 years the labourforce
participation of women declined. This is
not because, as I am sure Conservatives would like to have us all go back to,
it isnot because women have chosen to remain in the home. It isbecause they have no job
opportunities. The job creationprograms
are nonexistent; job training programs have been cutback; social assistance has
been cut back for women who want toget back into the work force, to do job
creation, to haveup‑grading. All
of those programs that would have a verypositive effect on the employment
statistics in this province andon the ability of women in this province to find
and maintainjobs have been cut back or eliminated by the provincialProgressive
Conservative government and their federalcounterparts in
Another statistic that I think bears repeating that
thegovernment refuses to pay any attention to are the welfare rollsand the food
bank use in
In the city of
With the recent changes to unemployment insurance that
thefederal Minister of Finance brought down last week, the situationwill only
get more desperate, for women particularly, inManitoba. It will be more difficult to get
unemploymentinsurance. People who are
being harassed at work or who arefinding their jobs untenable will now think
twice or three timesbefore they make any move at all to leave that position,
becausethey have to prove that they have been harassed or that theirworking
conditions were unbearable. The onus is
now on theworker not on the employer.
You are guilty until proveninnocent.
We know, given the historical precedent set by ourfederal and provincial
governments, that individuals will not belistened to nearly as much as the
employers in this province.
What is happening is that the transnational companies
aretaking over the business and the politics of our country. We arefast losing any semblance of
independence in
Mr. Acting Speaker, I would like to speak very briefly
aboutsome of the things that the government has done. The governmenthas not been totally inactive
in the last four years. No, no,the
government has been quite active. They
have been active indoing a number of things.
I would just like to take a briefmoment to list some of the things that
this government has done,how it has spoken up on behalf of and for all
Manitobans. Letthe people of
I would just like to do a bit of a reality check for
thePremier and suggest that he might want to look a little furtherthan his own
political back yard to find out exactly what thisgovernment has done and the
impact it has had on real Manitobans,ordinary Manitobans, middle‑class
working Manitobans, smallbusiness, employers, employees, families and children.
In the health care system, Mr. Acting Speaker, this
wonderfulaction plan for reform has done nothing except close
hospitalbeds. We have seen not one
single concomitant community‑basedprogram to replace the services that
were provided by thosehospital beds. We
have example after example of closings, ofdecline of service, with no increase
in community-based support,as the Action Plan for Health Care Reform said there
would be.We have had bed closures, licensed practical nurses‑‑a
vital, important, effective, cost-efficient part of the health care team‑‑cut
back, slashed; Street LINKS, a very viable preventiveprogram that was doing a
wonderful job, slashed by the provincialgovernment. Home care has been decimated. People have beentold, you pay for it; you
find the funds because we are no longer going to support you.
Now the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) has done an
enormousamount of delisting of drugs and other cut services that werecovered
previously, including now, Mr. Acting Speaker, the changethat we anticipate
having come through in January in the abilityof people to be covered under
medicare for an annual eyeexamination.
That will now be changed for every single group inthis province, high‑risk
children, high‑risk groups such as thosewho have hypertension, high‑risk
groups such as seniors. Every single
individual in
They have in their Pharmacare guidelines come down
on—harder than even the income tax system does‑‑people who do not
file ontime. There is absolutely no
leverage, no leeway for any person,whether they have been in the hospital or
have been otherwiseunable to file on time, to get their Pharmacare support.
They have cut help to the Unemployed Help Centre, this
intimes of massive unemployment. They
cut out completely theincome assistance program, a $55,000-a-year expense for
theMinister of Finance, which provided assistance for almost 14,000low‑income
Manitobans who now have to pay out of their own pocketfor help in preparing
their income tax. They have cut
supportfor the victims assistance programs, this at the same time thatthe
minister talked about zero tolerance of violence. They havecut the rural regional staffperson
for the Manitoba ActionCommittee on the Status of Women so that women outside
theperimeter will not be able to have access to the programs andservices they
had before.
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We all know what they have done in the realm of the
Autopacincreases, the political shenanigans and influence that tookplace under
there.
In my own area of Child and Family Services, in the last
yearand a half they recentralized the Child and Family Servicesagencies,
thereby leading to an enormous decrease in the role ofthe volunteers, inability
of staff to provide the kinds oflocally based services that they were able to
do before. In thedaycare field, they
made some enormously expensive, to themiddle‑income families of
Federally, Mr. Acting Speaker, they have not spoken out
tothe federal government on the negative impacts of the NorthAmerican Free
Trade Agreement. They have not said a
word aboutthe North American Free Trade Agreement. As a matter of fact,they did not even
participate in the hearings that were held, oneof five across the country, this
last week. Only the NewDemocrats
appeared before the all‑party federal public hearingprocess.
(Mr.
Speaker in the Chair)
The Premier (Mr. Filmon) refuses to say what his
government'sposition is on this vital issue that will have enormous impactson
Manitoba, and on Bill C‑91, the drug patent legislation.Finally, at the
11th hour, the Premier makes a public relationsgrandstand appearance with the
Prime Minister of Canada; theMinister of Health (Mr. Orchard) gets up and makes
a statement inthe House deriding and decrying the impact of drug
patentlegislation on the generic drug system in Manitoba and the coststhat this
government will have to bear.
Where, I would like to ask, was the provincial government
inthis issue for the last three years, when New Democrats in thisHouse and
across the country have been speaking out against thenegative impacts that the
change to the drug patent legislationwill have on the health care systems in
every province in thiscountry? Where
were they? They were nowhere to be
found. Youknow why? Because they are Conservative just like their
cousinsin Ottawa; because they believe, just like their cousins inOttawa, that
phone line that was supposed to be open from thePremier of Manitoba to the
Prime Minister has clearly beenderegulated to the point where it is out of
service.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to end my remarks by saying
yetagain that this government has not shown by any of its actionsthat it has
any positive ideas for the people of Manitoba.
Ithas no agenda for change. It
has no agenda for helping thepeople of
Mr. Speaker, we are advocating an activist
government. Weare advocating investment
in our economic and educationalfuture.
We are advocating an education system that does not justtrain people for
jobs, but gives people the basis skills so thatthey can take advantage of the
very changing and always beingmodified job market that we are faced with. We advocate apartnership between labour; business,
both large and small; andgovernment.
Mr. Speaker, we were the first province out of the 1981‑82recession
because of the activist partnership government of theNew Democrats. We are going to be the last province out of
thisrecession because of the inaction, the tired old policies of
thisConservative government.
Mr. Speaker, I wish I had more positive things to
say. I amafraid I do not. I think, again, the people of
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Family Services): Mr.Speaker, it is a pleasure to join my
colleagues and others inresponding to the Speech from the Throne. Before I get into myremarks and reflect on
some of the comments that have been madeby the most recent speaker and others,
I would like to of coursewelcome you back, Sir, to a very difficult task of
refereeing theongoing events in this Chamber.
Having had some small experiencein working with you in previous years, I
realize how difficult itis and what a tremendous job you do in doing that job
of lettinggovernment take place here in this Chamber. We are pleased tosee you back and in good
health.
We would also be remiss if we did not acknowledge the
changesin the Clerk's staff. I had the
opportunity to work with them inthe past as well at Estimates committee and
other committees andrecognize how many decisions have to be made on the spur of
themoment and how fortunate we are to have a well‑trained staff, butI
realize that changes do take place as they have this year andchanges will take
place in subsequent years as we see new facesfilling this very difficult
position.
A welcome to the Pages as well. It is gratifying to see anumber of Pages from
rural Manitoba who are a part of the team ofsix, I believe, who will be working
in the Chamber this session.It is my hope that students from all over the
province will getthis opportunity.
However, I realize the difficulties ofdistance in
Also, I would like to welcome all of my colleagues
back. Itis good to see you. During the sessions, we see a lot of
eachother, but there are times between sessions when we are all busyin our
constituency, and it is truly good to see members returnto this Chamber.
A special welcome to the two new members, the new MLA for
thegreat constituency of
I am not going to dwell to any great extent on the
greatconstituency of Minnedosa, but it has certainly been a pleasureto be able
to spend more time in my constituency to meet with theschool board, with the
R.M. councils and town councils, to attendthe many summer and fall events that
take place all over ruralManitoba and to truly be in touch with the citizens
that werepresent.
During the last six months since the House adjourned, we
havealso had the opportunity to visit many other parts of Manitobawith our
cabinet tour and other travels and in that time beingable to visit some of the
agencies that my department funds. Wehad
a delightful visit in a daycare at Russell during our cabinettour up there, and
it was nice to talk to parents and daycareworkers in rural Manitoba to hear
about some of their specialproblems, to look at the facility and to get a
better feel forthe type of job that they do.
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We also had an opportunity to visit at the Dawson
Trailopportunity centre in the constituency of one of my colleaguesand to
attend the official opening of a government building inthat community. At that time we were able to look at the
programthat Dawson Trail offers to the disabled members of thatcommunity, talk
to them about some of their future plans and talkabout some of the issues that
they foresee as they proceed intothe next number of years.
As well, in the interim we have opened another shelter
inDauphin. The members of our Family
Dispute Division and otherswere able to attend at that official opening. That brings thetotal number of shelters in
Having said my welcomes, Mr. Speaker, I would like to
turn myattention to the throne speech.
As I have reread it and listenedto some of my colleagues opposite talk
about the throne speech, Iam reminded of the old adage of the responsibility of
being ingovernment and the luxury of being in opposition, that
difficultdecisions have to be made given the economic climate in Manitoba,in
Canada, in the world.
This is a time of change.
My honourable colleague who is thecritic for the NDP indicated we have
no agenda for change. Yetin her remarks
and the remarks of other members of the officialopposition, I hear them trying to
preserve the ways and theinstitutions and the economic situation that has been
in thiscountry for decades. They are the
ones who are resistant tochange.
One of my colleagues spoke last week of the changes that
takeplace in the transportation industry, and it would appear thatmembers of
the New Democratic Party want to continue to have halfempty planes flying back
and forth across this country, to havepassenger trains continue where there is
no passenger servicerequired. I can tell
you that change is inevitable, change issomething as a government that we are
prepared to face, and Ihear those comments from across the way from people who
reallyare afraid of that change.
In the throne speech, the beginning lines recognize the
windsof change that are blowing in
The economy is something that has to adapt to this
changingworld, and the old solutions put forth in the past simply willnot
work. We cannot drive up the deficit and
the debt and spendour way out of this recession. We have to find new ways ofaddressing it, and
to that end an economic summit was heldrecently. I have heard members opposite consistently
call for aneconomic summit where they could have their input, where businessand
labour and government could get together.
I am appalled that the Leader of the official opposition
(Mr.Doer) chose not to attend. We have
been listening carefully forthe strategy that might come forward from members
opposite, whoserved in government in the 1980s and 1970s. The only strategywe hear is to create the
type of jobs that they created duringthe 1980s through the Jobs Fund. The counting of flowers, thepainting of
fences, where no tangible realistic construction wasdone. In fact, the Leader of the Opposition, who
was leader ofthe MGEA at that time, was very critical of the manner in whichthe
NDP government of the day chose to create those jobs.
We have had the opportunity during the recess to talk to
manysmall business people throughout
In the recent municipal election, the public of
Manitobaspoke very clearly and very eloquently on the idea of
raisingtaxes. I think that message was
clear and that members oppositecertainly should hear that as well.
In the rural area, of course, we have special
problems. Wehave a unique province with
60 percent of our people livingwithin the
I had the privilege of attending the Ayerst opening
inBrandon. It was a privilege to hear
business people from acrossthis nation and from other parts of the world talk
about theinfrastructure that they are going to create in
In the field of agriculture, we have the most
comprehensivesafety‑net program this country and this province has ever
seenbefore with the GRIP program, the crop insurance and NISA. Whilemembers opposite choose to find areas
that they are critical of,I can tell you that the producers out there are very
pleased,particularly the producers this year who live north of theYellowhead
Highway, that a safety‑net program is in place.
In the area of health reform, I have just listened to
themember for Wellington (Ms. Barrett) criticize the attempts andthe movement
toward health reform in the province of Manitoba,and I am reminded again of the
responsibility of government andthe luxury of being in opposition. All the provinces across thiscountry are
involved in health reform. It is a
needed reform.It is something that we have to do to preserve the medicare
wehave today. Rather than be appreciative
of the efforts that arebeing made, members of the official opposition are findingindividual
cases and being critical of the efforts that are beingmade there.
I am pleased that the second opposition party has the
abilityto analyze these changes, to be supportive of these changes, andmost of
all to recognize that these changes must take place. Ifwe do not make the health care reforms now,
the health caresystem as we know it will not be in place as we get towards
theyear 2000.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to turn my attention to
theDepartment of Family Services, and again, critics frequently aremaking
comment on some of the changes that have taken placewithin this department,
very positive changes so that we canoffer the best possible services to
vulnerable Manitobans throughthe Department of Family Services. I would repeat something Imentioned in the
House the other day, that we deal with some180,000 Manitobans through the
Department of Family Services, andall of our departments deal with very, very
vulnerable people.
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The members have brought up the increased use of socialallowances. This is certainly a reality in
We in this province have maintained our rate by
increasing itat the cost of living since we formed government, something thatis
not happening in other jurisdictions. In
fact, if that ratewas appropriate in the mid‑1980s, it must be
appropriate now,because we have increased it on a year‑by‑year
basis according tothe cost of living.
Last year, for instance, we increased thesocial allowances rate by some
3.6 percent. Only the Province ofB.C.
gave a larger increase than that and in fact a number ofprovinces gave a zero
percent increase and are looking at ways ofretracting some of the social
allowance benefits that are inplace.
On top of that annual increase we have also made a
tremendousnumber of reforms in that program that members opposite oftenforget
about and do not want to comment on. The
most recent onewas the extension of health care benefits to recipients of
socialallowances which will allow them to maintain their healthbenefits for a
full year as they move from social allowances intothe world of work in the
disabled category and the sole‑supportparents.
When we made that announcement, not one comment was made
byopposition members in recognition that this was a tremendous moveto allow
those people to move off of social allowances and intothe world of work. I was disappointed that my critic
fromWellington particularly did not applaud that move because it isone that
advocacy groups have been calling upon for many, manyyears to allow recipients
to move into the world of work.
We created a program last year called an income
supplementfor the disabled‑‑again, a longstanding issue in
thisprovince‑‑that recognizes that disabled people have special
costsand should be recognized and compensated for those. This year,even with a very, very difficult
budget facing us, we have againincreased that amount to the disabled by 16 to
17 percent.Again, this is an increase to the total social allowance's
budgetline and it is not just volume driven as members are wont tosay. We do have to take care of that volume, but
we also havemade these other enhancements.
We also gave special assistancefor school supplies, particularly for
high school students. Wehave passed on
the goods and services tax credit, the GST credit,without counting that as
additional income, and we introduced asupplementary benefit whereby the cost of
living and property taxcredits are now flowed on a monthly basis rather than an
annuallump sum.
I remember having the full support of the member for
Burrows(Mr. Martindale) in doing that, and then, of course, he laterchanged his
mind and said no, because some recipients are againstit, now I am against
it. But this has allowed recipients
toreceive that sum on a monthly basis, to be able to access thosefunds on a
monthly basis, and allow them not to be at the mercyof tax discounters who were
taking a hefty proportion.
Ms. Barrett: Give
them the choice.
Mr. Gilleshammer: Well,
the member for
We also made tremendous increases in the liquid
assetexemption level, again, a long‑standing issue that the
previousgovernment failed to address throughout the 1970s and 1980s. Inthe last two years we raised the liquid
asset exemptions to$2,000 for the disabled, $1,000 for other recipients, and we
putfamily maximums of $4,000 for the disabled clients and $3,000 forothers, so
that in fact recipients are able to accumulate some oftheir income, whether it
is exempted income or the monthlyallowance that they get, and are able to save
for the largepurchases that they sometimes wish to make.
The issue of the head of household is another issue that
hasbeen around for a long time, and, again, the previous governmentchose not to
make any decision on that. In recent
months we haveindicated that the guidelines had been changed to eliminate
thegender discrimination and that the family unit can indicate infact their
choice of who the head of the household should be.
Last session we passed, in this House, Bill 70 which is
goingto call for the standardization of rates and the standardizationof access
to social allowances. This was a
commitment that wemade in 1988, and through I think a really good process
withmembers of UMM and MAUM and the City of
We have also made a policy change effective November 1 on
thetransportation issue for wheelchair recipients for socialreasons. In the past we have allowed them 24 of these
tripsannually, two per month. We are
allowing them, at their request,something we have worked with the poverty
groups on and thedisabled groups who have asked that more flexibility be given
inthat area, that they can use these trips at their discretion withthe total
number of trips remaining the same.
While my honourable friend from Wellington (Ms. Barrett)
madethe comment that we have cut back on social allowances, we havein fact had
annual increases at the cost of living each and everyyear, something that this
government is very proud of, plus wehave done all of those other enhancements,
and every one Imentioned has a cost to government. I am only sorry that themember for Burrows
(Mr. Martindale) was not here from thebeginning to hear all of those changes
because I think it is apretty impressive list.
My honourable friend from
She made mention of the fact that there were not as
manyvolunteers; in fact, there are more volunteers working with theWinnipeg
agency. There are some 750 volunteers
that are now partand parcel of the
She also made a comment that the agency was giving
poorservice. I am sorry that she chooses
to characterize the work ofthe agency as being of poor service, because I think
they do atremendous job of providing services to the vulnerable childrenhere in
the city of
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There has been a tremendous amount of internal
organizationin terms of the rearrangement into four service areas throughoutthe
city of
In the area of service issues, they have been able to
dealwith issues that the previous six agencies, I think, haddifficulty with
because of the need for co-operation between thesix boards and the six
executive directors. I would like
toreport that real progress has been made on the issue of nightduty, and the
ability of the agency to respond to children whoare in need of service during
the late‑night hours and the earlymorning hours, and the agency now I
believe has a better abilityto respond to those issues. As well, there have beenimprovements in the
adoption function that the agency takesforward as well as the recruitment of
foster homes. There is nolonger that
competition for foster homes and, if a child isapprehended in one area of the
city, they have the ability to usefoster homes anywhere else in the city.
The final service issue that I would mention is the
newservice information system, and I do not think we havecommunicated well how
important a tool this is going to be forall of our agencies, the aboriginal
agencies and the departmentin coming years.
This last Friday, I had an opportunity inPortage la Prairie to visit the
central
As well, the
Recently, we signed a service and funding agreement with
theManitoba Metis Federation. At the
same time, the
Mr. Speaker, I suspect I am running towards the end of
mytime. I would like to just mention a
couple of other areas ofthe department.
The rehabilitation and community living, we havea number of initiatives
there that I think are noteworthy.
TheWorking Group on Community Living that met over the last coupleof
years to bring recommendations to government was establishedin June of 1990 and
reported during 1991. I am pleased that
wefinalized a number of the initiatives and announced them onNovember 5.
The centerpiece of this project is to take 25 individuals
whoare currently in provincial institutions or in unstable communitysettings
and to work with them to live more independently in thecommunity. I think this has been a tremendous process
whereby wehave involved ACL Winnipeg, ACL Manitoba, the institutions thatare
part of my department as well as department staff and otherson this working
group to bring forward these recommendations andto proceed with this pilot
program.
Also this session we will be bringing forward legislation
onthe vulnerable persons living with a mental disability. Thiswill replace The Mental Health Act, Part
II. Again we have hadan excellent
process of consultation with the wider community.We had hoped to bring this
legislation in last session, butbecause of the volume of work that had to be
done we were notable to complete that.
We will be tabling that legislation whenwe get back from the Christmas
recess, some time in March orApril.
We think that this is landmark legislation that I have
sharedin a small part with my two critics.
I would hope when we areready to introduce it we can have another
opportunity to discussin some detail the details of that legislation. Thislegislation, I am sure, is legislation
all members of the Housewill be able to support.
In the daycare area, certainly providing quality
daycareservices in rural
We have seen a tremendous decline in our numbers of
studentsin schools. Similarly, there is
a decline in the number of youngchildren in rural areas who need to access
daycare. Probably thebest avenue for
those parents is to access family daycare, and weare pleased that we have been
able to license more family daycarehomes in many areas of
We have been involved with the Department of Agriculture
andthe Women's Institute, looking at innovative ways to provideservice in some
remote and rural areas of
In the area of youth employment, in the last year we
wereable to maintain our program with the CareerStart Program thispast
summer. Many Manitobans were able to
access summer jobsthrough that program.
As well, we were part of the Partners withYouth program, which helped to
create more summer jobs within theprovince.
Similarly, the student job placement offices wereagain open throughout
rural
Mr. Speaker, in closing, I would again urge the firstopposition
party to bring forward concrete examples of changesthat we can bring about in
government throughout the variousdepartments, and would remind them of their
greaterresponsibility as members of the Legislature, not simply tocondemn and
to criticize, but to be part of the change that hasto take place over the next
number of years and to bring forwardideas that are going to truly help with
some of the majorinitiatives that we are in the process of undertaking at
thistime.
*
(1740)
The member for Wellington (Ms. Barrett) indicated that
wehave no agenda for change, yet it is that very change that istaking place
that she is so critical of, the health care reforms,the restructuring in this
department and the tremendous effortsthat the Minister of I, T and T (Mr.
Stefanson) and the economicportfolios in government have been looking at. I would urge themto be supportive of those
changes and to understand that we arein a changing world and that these
initiatives in keeping taxesdown and bringing forward other ideas are going to
have apositive influence on
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I have appreciated having anopportunity to make my contribution, and
would welcome theopportunity to hear some of the other ideas that might comeforward
from other members. Thank you.
Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): I appreciate the opportunity tospeak on yet
another throne speech, Mr. Speaker.
I must say, before beginning my introductory comments,
thatif I was to give this throne speech marks‑‑and I will get
intodetails of this later‑‑I would certainly give them A+
forcreative rhetoric, somewhat fewer marks in terms of actualsubstance. In terms of recognizing the reality of what
ishappening in
I want to begin with some preliminary comments because it
istraditional in the House to comment, Mr. Speaker, a number ofways, certainly
to welcome you back to the Chamber, and at therisk‑‑I know you have
various rulings to be making in the nextfew days, and I want to assure you that
I am not trying to begany favour by saying that I trust in your judgment, win,
lose ordraw, as I have done on many rulings in the House as Houseleader. You have been extremely fair. I really think you havebeen exemplary, and I
think you have truly upheld the kind ofspeakership that is in keeping with the
parliamentary system. Iknow I speak for
certainly all members in our caucus, and I willhope for all members of the
House, to welcome you back.
The other thing I would like to do is recognize some of
thesignificant passages that have taken place.
I think it wasHarold
We, first of all, of course, have had two‑‑well,
I was goingto say two new members elected to the House, Mr. Speaker. Wehave had one new, new member, and we have
had a returning memberelected.
I would like to, first of all, welcome the new member
forPortage (Mr. Pallister) to the House.
I want to commend him forwhat I thought was an excellent preliminary
speech. I think itwas very much in
keeping with parliamentary tradition, gave avery vivid picture of his
constituency, Mr. Speaker, and I thinkit set a tone in terms of his future
career in this House. Welook forward to
further speeches. I am sure some of them
in thefuture might be a little bit more political, and I wouldencourage him to
be as political as he wants.
(Mr.
Jack Penner, Acting Speaker, in the Chair)
I think he established very well the sort of
constituencyfocus in the first speech he gave, and certainly my experiencehas
been that what counts is the constituency level, certainly tothe people of
I would like to also welcome back the member for
Crescentwood(Ms. Gray). It is
interesting, Mr. Acting Speaker, it is veryrare actually, I think, for members
to return to this House afterhaving, shall we say‑‑I use this with
the member for Broadway(Mr. Santos). I
talk about his involuntary sabbatical between1988 and 1990. I could say the same for the member
forCrescentwood who was on an involuntary sabbatical. I certainlycredit her, as I have with the
member for Broadway, on beingpolitical phoenixes. I can think of only one other member,
AlMackling, the member of this House who went through a similarsort of
sabbatical in recent memory.
I think it shows real commitment to the public process
andthe political process when anyone, after seeing what life afterpolitics is
like, decides that they want to return to politics.We need that kind of
dedication at a time when it is not alwaysthat easy to be in public life. So I certainly welcome her back.
I wanted to comment, of course, on the retirement
fromprovincial politics of Elijah Harper, Mr. Acting Speaker. I wantto indicate that I will miss Elijah in
this House. I was electedin 1981 at the
same time, and the certain kinship that goes withbeing, shall we say, part of
the same class, in this case, theclass of 1981.
I just had the opportunity of reflecting inprivate conversations on how
many significant events havehappened in that 11‑year period. I remember the first time I metElijah after
the election, walking into a caucus meeting.
Ithink, if anyone had even begun to outline the events of the next11
years, certainly for all of us who were elected in 1981, andmost particularly
for the former member for Rupertsland, I thinkthat any of us would have
suggested that that individual wascrazy.
Who would have thought that the member for Rupertsland
wouldhave become a key spokesperson for aboriginal people as hehas?‑‑not
that he did not come in with a great deal of promise, aformer chief from the
Red Sucker Lake Band, full of ideas in1981.
I think it is interesting, Mr. Acting Speaker, and I thinkit is
something we should all take pride in this House, to seethe member for
Rupertsland now being seen as a nationalspokesperson for aboriginal
people. No matter what he does inthe
future, whether he continues in terms of politicsfederally‑‑and I
know he has certainly not ruled that possibilityout‑‑I know that he
could be working nationally on aboriginalissues internationally. He has become world‑renowned in terms
ofspeaking for aboriginal people.
I think, even putting aside some of the partisan
commentsthat we make over the years, all of us in this House would agreein
wishing Elijah Harper all the best in the future, Mr. ActingSpeaker, and thank
him for his 11 years of service, not only forthe constituency that he has
represented, but also for allaboriginal people.
I want to say on a personal note just howmuch I have learned about the
true view of aboriginal people frombeing a colleague and a friend of Elijah
Harper.
There have been a number of other passings as well. Theformer member for
Also, of course, the Leader of the Liberal Party
(Mrs.Carstairs) has announced that she is going to be stepping down asLiberal
Leader. I think she probably has the
rather uniqueopportunity now of not retiring immediately from provincialpolitics
but to, shall we say, be hearing somewhat prematureobituaries, memorials, Mr.
Acting Speaker, but maybe this isprobably something we should do more often in
this House, andthat is recognize the‑‑
An Honourable Member: Resign.
Mr. Ashton:
Resign. I notice some of the
Conservative memberssaying resign. If
they want to resign, we have no problem withthat.
What I wanted to do was remark on the fact that I think
shehit a very important tone in her speech as well, Mr. ActingSpeaker, in
talking about what has happened in this House overthe last number of
years. I find it interesting in
reflecting onconversations with the people who have sat in this House
longerthan I have and former members how there has been a deteriorationover the
years. I will always believe that what
is said in thisHouse on issues is one thing, what is said in the hallways,
whatit is said on a personal basis is another.
(Mr.
Speaker in the Chair)
*
(1750)
I think it is important, as the Leader of the Liberal
Partypointed out in her speech, not to carry on some of the politicaldebates
into the hallways. I recognize that all
57 of us areelected to represent our constituents‑‑56 now. We may havediffering views, and in fact even
the Minister of Consumer andCorporate Affairs (Mrs. McIntosh) and I agreed on
something lastsession. I think that is
an achievement. I know that when wewere
in Labour committee and I moved a number of amendments whichher minister agreed
with, she was somewhat suspicious because Iwas moving them and she felt that
she had to vote against them,although we actually voted on the same side on
that, Mr.Speaker. So long as we can
agree on even one thing, there has tobe some hope for all of us. I think as the Leader of the LiberalParty
pointed out, that is very important.
I think that we should look back in recognizing that,
alsoacross the political lines and issues as well. I know we werejust talking a few minutes ago
about some of the important issuesthat have come over the years, looking back
to The Human RightsAct of 1987, in which the Liberal Leader played a very
importantrole from her side supporting some initiatives that were beingbrought
in, particularly in terms of sexual orientation, whichwas a very controversial
issue in this Chamber. I am not tryingto
revive the debate, but it is the kind of thing that often isnot recognized in
terms of political analyses when one isfinished in terms of politics.
I think, Mr. Speaker, sometimes achievements of that
naturemean more than how many seats one gains or loses, althoughcertainly the
position of the Liberal Leader will be very welltaken in terms of history, of
having gone from no seats to theLiberal Party being active again.
I want to say that and I know there will be times once
theLiberal Leader is out of politics to say the same. I know thereis always a fear in this House if
we say something nice orpositive or recognize something else that someone in
anotherparty has done that might be considered suspect or might be seenin the
wrong way, but I have no hesitation in saying that on anumber of important
issues, politics aside, that she has had avery important influence on this
province and she will certainlybe missed in the House in future years. She has made a majorcontribution.
I just want to mention, for example, I remember when
theLiberal Leader was first elected, my daughter was about fouryears old at the
time and I remember having a tough time when Iwould ask her what she wanted to
do, explaining to her that shecould be an MLA.
I remember one time I asked her if she wantedto be an MLA. She said no, there were only boys, so I
pointedout that there were a number of girls‑‑women‑‑in
the Legislature,and I am saying that in a nonsexist way‑‑when you
are talking toa four‑year‑old about boys and girls, I am saying it
in thatsense‑‑and I remember that she recognized the Leader of
theLiberal Party at the point where I remember going on a bus tripto Brandon
for the Royal Winter Fair‑‑this was about a yearlater‑‑and
I considered it real progress when she recognized theLeader of the Liberal
Party and was saying, that is SharonCarstairs, that is Sharon Carstairs.
It is funny how you do not see, in a way, societal
attitudesuntil you see it in your own kids.
She had finally recognizedthat one's gender does not matter in terms of
politics. It maysound like a minor
point, but I think that is what is happeningin society generally. I personally look forward to the day inthis
Chamber when we have gender parity, Mr. Speaker, because Ithink it will be a
far better place and far more reflective ofthe reality of the changes in
society. I have found from my
ownpersonal experience how important that is.
Now I want to just also spend a couple of minutes, and I
willhave the opportunity to talk a bit further tonight, talking aboutmy
constituency, Mr. Speaker, because, as I said just a fewminutes ago, as far as
I am concerned we start in this Chamberrepresenting our constituents and our
constituents first. Thatshould be our
top priority. I say that because I find
in dealingwith constituent problems and concerns, talking to myconstituents as
I do on as regular a basis as possible, that isthe sense I get from people.
People are far more interested in public affairs than we
givethem credit. They have a much broader
perspective than we givethem credit. I
know in my case, representing eight communities,I find that there is always
something to be learned from goingand talking to the people that I represent,
and listening, thetoughest thing for anybody in public life, in politics, is
tolisten.
We talk about listening but we are actually better at
shallwe say, talking than we are at listening.
When one actually goesand listens, it is amazing the kind of wisdom that
one hears, thekind of constructive suggestions and legitimate concerns
andcriticisms that one hears.
I know my own area today, it is pretty tough; there are
toughtimes. Thompson, which had pretty
well been sheltered from therecession, is now being faced with the prospect of
the loss of125 jobs, hopefully through attrition and early retirement.
Many of the more remote communities in my constituency
havebeen facing tough times for many years, and it is getting worse.I was
recently in Nelson House again, for example, and theprospects for economic
development are pretty remote despite thefact that the band is doing a
considerable number of innovativethings.
It is the same thing in
Ilford, Thicket Portage and Pikwitonei, Mr. Speaker,
arebayline communities. They are very
concerned about the future ofthe bayline.
They do not have road access.
They are concernedabout the very future of their communities, and I want
to pointto the difficult circumstances they face. They have been leftbehind. Metis and C-31 residents who do not have the
reservestatus are being left behind in terms of aboriginalself‑government. We need to be looking at communities such
asthose and communities such as Wabowden as well in terms of thedifficulties
they face.
Wabowden, Mr. Speaker‑‑I will be in Wabowden
in a couple ofdays, as a matter of fact‑‑is facing difficult times
because ofRepap and the elimination of jobs in that community. Generally,across the board there are tough
times, very tough times incommunities.
And you know what? What I think
is important thatwe do in this House is not only bring forward issues but the
kindof experiences and the kind of reality that people are goingthrough.
I want to just outline a number of examples of that. The daybefore we began our pre‑session
ceremonies in this House, I wasin Thompson, at home. I decided to go and talk first-hand to
anumber of tenants on Cree Road who are living in situations‑‑andyou
know that area of town very well in Thompson, I know‑‑who arebeing
faced with being forced out of their properties because thelandlord in that
particular case has not been putting forth thekind of repairs necessary. Mr. Speaker, slum conditions.
I went in and I talked to people I had known for many
years,people who have lived in these apartments for 10 and 15 and 20years, Mr.
Speaker. The bottom line is, it is scary
that in1992, we can have people living in those kinds of conditions.This is in
Thompson which is generally a good standard of living,but that is one example.
I have been in Pikwitonei, in homes of individuals
whoinvited me in to see gaping holes in the floors, cupboardsfalling in, Mr.
Speaker. I have seen foundation
problems. Ihave seen windows that have
cracks to the point where it isimpossible to keep heat in those buildings. I have gone togovernment departments and
agencies to be told, well, that is notour jurisdiction and then have gone to
another and been told thatis not our jurisdiction either, while people continue
to live inthose conditions.
I have talked to people who have been unemployed for a
year,for two years, for three years, who have all but given up hope.I have
talked to people, Mr. Speaker, who live in remotecommunities and are lucky to
work a month or two, people who relyon UIC which is, once again, being cut
back, even just to make itthrough with any level of dignity working for two or
threemonths. I have talked to trappers
in my constituency who cannotmake a living anymore off trapping. Yes, indeed, there arepeople who wish to
continue to trap.
So this is reality out there, Mr. Speaker. It is a newreality, and that is the kind of
thing this government should berecognizing in its throne speech, not the new
buzzwords, but thenew reality.
You can look at it in terms of statistics‑‑the
highest levelof child poverty, one of the highest levels of poverty in
thecountry, Mr. Speaker. We have one of
the lowest levels ofindustrial wage.
There are tremendous changes taking place inour economy and,
unfortunately, what is happening is we are beingstripped of our industrial
capacity, particularly here in thecity of
We are seeing a shrinking in the mining industry that is
unprecedented‑‑Thompson losing 125 jobs, Flin Flon beingdownsized,
The fact is, there is a new reality out there and it
istough. You know, Mr. Speaker, I know
members opposite will say,well, you are just being critical. It would be easy to respond.I could read back
many a phrase, and I will, in fact, in a fewminutes, that members opposite put
on the record when they werein opposition, but that is not the point of
it. When I say timesare tough, they are
tough.
When I say that members of this House would do well to
getoutside of this building and talk to the unemployed and talk tothe people
living in slum conditions and talk to the young peoplewho are seeing very
little hope, that is not a question ofnegativity. That is a question of reality. That is whatfundamentally concerns me about
this government and this thronespeech, because this government is completely
and absolutely outof touch.
They brought in a throne speech that never once mentioned
theword "recession," the "r" word. It is almost as if, Mr. Speaker,the Premier
(Mr. Filmon) can stand here and the Premier canimagine that everything is fine
in the province of Manitoba, thatthere is no recession‑‑we have all
these statistics that show howgreat things are.
Well, the only way you can do that, like thePremier is doing it, is if
you are completely and absolutely outof touch.
The only way you can do that is if you see theprovince through the
window of a jet airplane looking down on it.
If you talk to people up close, you know that we have
arecession. It is a lingering
recession. We are in some of theworst
economic circumstances in this province since the 1930s,and the only way to
come up with solutions to the problems thatwe have is to recognize that there
is a problem in the firstplace.
Now, perhaps, the Premier (Mr. Filmon) does not
recognizethere is a problem. Perhaps the
people he represents, bothconstituency‑wise and also in terms of the
coalition that theConservative Party represents, perhaps they are not going
throughthe same tough times, but I even doubt if that is the case. Imean, if the Premier took the time to talk
to some of thetraditional supporters of the Conservative Party, they would
tellhim straight that there are tough times in this province, Mr.Speaker.
I want to suggest that this is more than just a failed
thronespeech. There have been six
Conservative throne speeches, Ibelieve.
This is the sixth one. After
awhile, one tends to losecount, Mr. Speaker.
This is obviously, to my mind, the one thatis most out of touch with
reality. You know, I would say thereis
some significance in that, because I think we are at awatershed with this
government. We are at a political
watershed.
When they were elected in 1988, they were able to run,
Mr.Speaker, against the NDP at the time.
Does anybody recall someof the key issues at the time? Autopac was one of them‑‑and
Iwill be getting to that tonight‑‑taxes, general view in terms
ofthe government being out of touch.
That was what they ran on in1988.
In 1990, they had the opportunity for a second term. Alot of what happened in 1990 was reflective
of some of theconstitutional discussions that had taken place and some of
theironic twists and turns of fate.
Now, Mr. Speaker, it is 1992, and we are going through
awatershed. Friday, the highest level of
unemployment in quitesome time‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order,
please. When this matter is again
beforethe House, the honourable member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) willhave 18
minutes remaining.
The hour being 6 p.m., I am leaving the Chair with
theunderstanding that the House will reconvene at 8 p.m.