LEGISLATIVE
ASSEMBLY OF
Tuesday,
April 6, 1993
The House met at 1:30
p.m.
PRAYERS
ROUTINE
PROCEEDINGS
PRESENTING
PETITIONS
Mr. George Hickes (Point
Douglas): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of
Paul Reeks, Janet Hartley, Eddie Ledwos and others, requesting the Minister of
Family Services (Mr. Gilleshammer) to consider restoring funding of the student
social allowance program.
Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis
(
Mr. Conrad Santos
(Broadway): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of
Gheta Shaw, Kevin Kirton, D'Arcy Christie and others, requesting the Minister
of Family Services (Mr. Gilleshammer) to consider restoring funding of the
student social allowance program.
Ms. Becky Barrett (
Introduction
of Guests
Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the
attention of honourable members to the gallery, where we have with us this
afternoon a group of Scots representing various clans and tartans throughout
the
On behalf of all honourable members, I
would like to welcome you here this afternoon.
ORAL
QUESTION PERIOD
Nursing
Staff Layoffs
Mr. Conrad Santos
(Broadway): Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like to
express my appreciation to my party Leader, the caucus chair and members of my
caucus for giving me this opportunity, first time.
Mr. Speaker, it is written: No man can serve two masters, for either he
will hate one or love the other, or else he will hold to one and despise the
other, especially if one of the masters is money, for the love of money is the
root of all evil.
Mr. Speaker, the Trizec Corporation is a
parent corporation which owns a subsidiary corporation called
Central Park Lodge received more than $3
million from government funding for nursing care health services for seniors in
* (1335)
They decided to lay off 25 registered
nurses and, therefore, effectively converted a portion of the public money into
private funding for realty development in
My question to the honourable Minister
responsible for Seniors (Mr. Ducharme):
As responsible minister in charge of the affairs of seniors in this
province, does he have any say at all in the decision about this laying off of
25 nurses, any input at all?
Hon. Donald Orchard
(Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, my honourable friend poses a
question which undertakes and begs an answer which has already been given to
the House, Sir, in terms of staffing pattern decisions made at the long‑term
care facility
I realize my honourable friend wishes to
create this aura of somehow wrongdoing, but surely my honourable friend must
acknowledge that when questioned about the allegations that he has repeated,
incorrectly, Sir, I might add, of this being a decision directed by Trizec Corporation
to Central Park Lodge, that is totally incorrect. That was stated as totally incorrect by the
registered nurse who is the managing director of Central Park Lodge.
To repeat that, Sir, does nothing to
enhance my honourable friend's integrity in this House when he quotes from the
Bible to start his question.
Now, Mr. Speaker, my honourable friend
should know that Central Park Lodge, in their restructured staffing patterns,
meets provincial guidelines, will provide more, not less, hands‑on care to
the residents in that facility.
Is my honourable friend now saying that he
is against more care providers providing more care to those residents in
Central Park Lodge?
Because that is what this change in
staffing pattern is doing, Sir, more quality care, not less.
Mr. Santos: Since the honourable Minister of Health is so
eager to answer the question, I might as well direct the question to him.
Can the honourable Minister of Health
explain to this Legislative Assembly and to the people of
Mr. Orchard: Mr. Speaker, I cannot give an answer to a
question which is inaccurate in its premise and presentation.
Mr. Santos: Mr. Speaker, I do not say anything without the
statistics.
Staffing
Requirements
Mr. Conrad Santos
(Broadway): This Central Park Lodge was funded for 43.7
equivalent full‑time professional staff, and it was only provided with
37.5, short of 6.2, not even satisfying the minimal requirement for staffing in
this province for a private nursing home.
Why?
Hon. Donald Orchard
(Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I simply indicate to my
honourable friend that the staffing patterns at Central Park Lodge are such
that they comply with the guidelines of the
In fact, Sir, with this change, there will
be more caregivers providing more hours of care to those residents than prior
to the change, more care, not less care, an increase in care, not a decrease in
care, so my honourable friend's premise, preamble and alleged allegations are
not accurate.
Mr. Santos: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question?
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Broadway with a new
question? No.
Child and
Family Services Agencies
Service
Reduction
Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis
(St. Johns): Mr. Speaker, three times in the last couple of
weeks, under questioning by the member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale), the
Minister of Family Services has stated that he has met with the executive
directors and presidents of the Child and Family Services agencies regarding
their collective ability to provide services to the children in need of this
province. He has talked about
delivering.
In response to those questions, he
indicated that this government would be working in partnership with those
agencies, and he has indicated that the issues were manageable.
Now we have learned from the executive
director of the largest Child and Family Services agency in
I want to ask the Minister responsible for
Family Services, who has been clouding the issue and downplaying the
seriousness of this issue, how he intends on dealing with a potentially
disastrous situation facing the children of this province with a budget that is
going down and the number of children in care going up.
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer
(Minister of Family Services): Mr.
Speaker, yes, indeed I did meet with the presidents and the chief executive
officers of the agencies to indicate some of the budget decisions that Family
Services was bringing forward in this budget that is being tabled today.
I do not downplay the very, very important
work that the Child and Family Services agencies and their staff do across this
province.
We have indicated that there are very
difficult budget decisions that have to be made within this budget, and we have
indicated to the presidents of those organizations and the CEOs of those
organizations that we will work with them to find the creative solutions
required so that the services that are required can be presented.
* (1340)
Ms. Wasylycia‑Leis: Mr. Speaker, we are dealing with the most
vulnerable members in our society, and we are dealing with a statement from
Keith Cooper saying there will be less service.
I want to ask the Minister of Family
Services: How is this government going
to respond to a 13 percent increase in the number of children needing care in
the last 18 months when this government has decreased its budget for Child and
Family Services by $5 million and, through the legislation involving the Civil
Service, will cut out 3,000 days of service?
Mr. Gilleshammer: Mr. Speaker, I would point out to the member
that when we had this discussion with the presidents and the CEOs and talked
with them about the challenges facing the Family Services agencies, there was
certainly recognition of the additional support we had put into those agencies
in the last number of years and also a feeling of co‑operation that we
could work together to resolve these issues.
The member talks about the budget for that
line being reduced by some $5 million.
It is a little less than that, but I would point out to her that the
majority of that funding was funding that flows through to foster parents and
the foster parents organization, not for the direct delivery of service by the
child welfare agencies.
Ms. Wasylycia‑Leis: Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the minister a
final question because, in fact, the statements from the head of the largest
Child and Family Services agency in
What is the plan of this government to
fill that gap and ensure that no child, not a single child, is left to fall
between the cracks?
Mr. Gilleshammer: Mr. Speaker, when we had the opportunity to
talk to the presidents and the CEOs, including the CEO mentioned by the
honourable member, certainly there is recognition that there is a challenge in
the fact that the workweek will be reduced, but there are some creative ways of
going around that, the same methods that would be used in 24‑hour
institutions such as hospitals.
Video
Lottery Terminals
Revenue
Investment
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (
Because of a broken promise that this
Premier made to rural Manitobans with respect to the VLT revenues, we asked
this government to allocate 25 percent of the VLT revenues out to the rural
municipalities.
The Premier's response to that particular
question that I had asked was, and I quote from Hansard‑‑he is
referring to the people of Manitoba‑‑quote: " . . . they do not want us to set aside
25 percent of Lotteries funds in a slush fund . . . ."
Mr. Speaker, I find that it is completely
unacceptable for the Premier of this province to accuse the rural
municipalities of wanting to create a slush fund.
I would ask the Premier: Why does he believe the rural municipalities
will treat this fund as nothing more than a slush fund, something that this
government has created‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member has put his question.
*
(1345)
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Mr. Speaker, the point that I make is that we
do not have a whole series of different priorities in this province, that when
taxpayers tell us that their greatest priorities are health care and education,
those are the greatest priorities. We
should not transfer our priorities over to other people to choose for their
priorities.
The fact of the matter is, there is only
one taxpayer. Every dollar that we
collect from people by way of taxes is a hard‑earned dollar that they
want spent on the things that are most important to them. That is the point I make, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, the Premier talks about
priorities. The priority was with the VLT revenues that any monies generated
from that would be going back into the rural economy.
My question to the Premier is: Why did the Premier break his promise to
rural Manitobans?
Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, we made a commitment at the time
that we introduced VLTs into rural
As I pointed out in a recent discussion in
That says nothing, Mr. Speaker, of the
money that goes into that community by way of the health care institutions that
reside there, the rural development, the
All of that was money spent in rural
Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, let us make it clear. What this Premier has done is, he has broken
a promise to rural
In excess of $30 million has come out of
the rural economy because of this decision of this government, whereas they
have spent a small percentage of that money back into rural
My question to the Premier is: Why will he not live up to his original
commitment and put that money back into the rural economy?
Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, as usual, the member for
I listed for him projects that exceed the
$30 million in the city of
Mr. Speaker, the member has no case.
Highway
Traffic Act
Licence
Plate Exemption
Mr. Daryl Reid
(Transcona): Mr. Speaker, Chapter 3, Sections 6(1) and
6(2) of The Highway Traffic Act indicates that every motor vehicle in the
province shall have a number plate placed in a conspicuous position on the
outside of a motor vehicle as to make it distinctly visible.
My question is for the Minister of
Highways and Transportation or the Minister of Justice.
Has either of these ministers granted
permission to any person or groups of people allowing them to operate personal,
private motor vehicles without displaying licence plates?
Hon. Albert Driedger
(Minister of Highways and Transportation): Mr. Speaker, this is a zinger I think he
has got.
Mr. Speaker, I have not given that
authority, nor has the Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae). If there is a specific case that he is
concerned about, all he has to do is give me the details and we will look into
the matter.
Mr. Reid: Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for that.
Highway
Traffic Act
Licence
Plate Exemption
Mr. Daryl Reid
(Transcona): Information drawn to our attention indicates
that many private vehicles are being operated without licence plates to and
from the Northern Blower plant site in Transcona.
Will the Minister of Justice explain why
the City of Winnipeg Police are not enforcing The Highway Traffic Act requiring
licence plates to be displayed, after this matter was drawn to their attention?
* (1350)
Hon. James McCrae
(Minister of Justice and Attorney General): As
my honourable colleague has said, it does appear to be a zinger, Mr. Speaker.
I will take the information the honourable
member is putting across and make inquiries and report back.
Mr. Reid: Mr. Speaker, I thank the Minister of Justice
for that.
Can we expect that when this information comes
forward, and it will be confirmed and I can provide that information and video
tape evidence for the Minister of Justice's information, that the
Mr. McCrae: Mr. Speaker, you know, as all honourable
members know, how many times in this House incorrect and inaccurate information
is brought forward and placed before us as if it were fact.
I do not know that happens very often with
this honourable member, and so out of respect for him I will look very
carefully at the information he has brought forward and, as I said, report
back.
Northern
Blower
Workplace
Safety Inspection
Ms. Marianne Cerilli
(Radisson): Mr. Speaker, under the current economic
climate, as jobs become more scarce and vulnerable, workers live in fear of
losing their jobs. We know that a number
of regulations are lax, or the enforcement becomes lax, and there is an
atmosphere that Workplace Safety and Health regulations may be shortcutted.
My question is for the Minister of
Workplace Safety and Health and Labour.
Since the strike began at Northern Blower,
when was the last Workplace Safety and Health inspection at that plant?
Hon. Darren Praznik
(Minister of Labour): Mr. Speaker, I would just point out to the
member for Radisson‑‑I know she brings this issue to the House, I
hope is well‑intentioned in doing so‑‑that one of my
experiences as Minister of Labour is that requests for Workplace Safety and
Health inspections tend to increase dramatically in many cases where there is a
labour dispute going on, that often that becomes a tool in the labour dispute.
If there are legitimate Workplace Safety
and Health concerns that exist in that facility, if she would like to bring
them to the attention of the director of the department, we will arrange for an
appropriate inspection.
Ms. Cerilli: Mr. Speaker, I asked a very direct and serious
question of the minister.
Has there been an inspection at Northern
Blower since the beginning of the strike, and is there a change in the number
of accidents that have been reported?
Mr. Praznik: Mr. Speaker, I will take as notice her
question as to whether or not there was an inspection recently at Northern
Blower, but I will again tell the honourable member that my experience as
minister has been that very often Workplace Safety and Health inspections
become an issue at the time of a labour dispute. They become a tool, in essence, in that
labour dispute.
If there are legitimate concerns there we
will ensure that they are investigated.
Accident
Reports
Ms. Marianne Cerilli
(Radisson): Mr. Speaker, are replacement workers reporting
these accidents? Is the company
reporting these accidents? Can the minister
tell the House what the causes of these accidents were and have any charges
been laid in any accidents at this worksite?
Hon. Darren Praznik
(Minister of Labour): Mr. Speaker, as to the specifics of this
facility, I will take the matter as notice and have that information obtained
from the staff at Workplace Safety and Health.
Omand's
Creek
Commercial
Development Protection
Mr. Paul Edwards (St.
James): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister
of Urban Affairs.
On no less than four occasions developers,
with the complicity of City Council, have attempted to pave over Omand's Creek
in the west end of the city.
Partly in response to this the former
member for Wolseley and myself passed an amendment to The City of Winnipeg Act
in 1989 banning commercial construction over waterways throughout the city of
This minister repealed that legislation in
1991 with the backing of a majority government.
The city did nothing to replace that legislation, and so this minister
brought forward new legislation requiring the city to come forward with
something.
Can the minister give members of this
House a report on progress being made at City Hall as to protecting the
waterways in this city from commercial construction?
* (1355)
Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister
of Urban Affairs): Mr. Speaker, let me say firstly that the
legislation that the honourable member participated in in 1989 is still in
force until such time as the city passes a by‑law.
I will take the substance of that, whether
the city has yet passed it or not, as notice and advise the member.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Speaker, can the minister indicate when
City Council is intending to come forward with legislation, if he knows?
This is an area of provincial jurisdiction
which the province has given over to the city.
Is the city in contact with this minister
to discuss what the protection should be, and is the minister aware at this
time as to what the city's intentions are with respect to some legislation?
Mr. Ernst: I indicated, Mr. Speaker, in my answer to his
first question that I will take the substance of that as notice and advise the
member.
Waterways
Protection Legislation
Mr. Paul Edwards (St.
James): Mr. Speaker, finally for the minister
responsible for Rural Development.
One of the aspects of this is that this
protection that was put in place is just in The City of Winnipeg Act.
Does the Minister of Rural Development
have any intentions to come forward with similar legislation protecting
waterways throughout this province?
This would seem only fair in terms of
protecting waterways for all Manitobans to the same degree.
Hon. Leonard Derkach
(Minister of Rural Development): Mr.
Speaker, I guess it goes without saying that all members in this House are
concerned about waterways and, indeed, Manitobans in general are concerned
about the quality of the water in this province.
I have not had a specific concern come to
me with regard to passing legislation that would parallel the kind of
legislation that was passed with regard to the issue in the city of
Until such time that I have had some
representation from rural
Canadian
Blood Agency
Blood
Fractionation Plant
Mr. Dave Chomiak
(Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister
of Health.
Mr. Speaker, since the province
participates in the Canadian Blood Agency and since our province may be
required to sign a 10‑year contract with the Red Cross to purchase
supplies from the proposed blood fractionation plant to be built in
Hon. Donald Orchard
(Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I think my honourable friend's
question is probably stimulated by a recent March 23, 1993, article on the
perception that somehow Red Cross had gotten permission from the Canadian Blood
Agency to build a fractionation plant.
I would simply like to indicate to my
honourable friend that the Canadian Blood Agency, of which
Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, supplementary, to the
minister: Can the minister advise as to
whether there are ongoing negotiations with respect to this particular plant,
and will he come back to the House when those negotiations are concluded to
advise the House as to the status of it?
Mr. Orchard: Mr. Speaker, this country has a significant
history in terms of blood fractionation proposals. My honourable friend might recall the
initiative undertaken by a former Minister of Health, the Honourable Bud
Sherman, to have
Mr. Speaker, unfortunately, those plans
and circumstances did not produce the desired results and, subsequent to that,
for the past probably decade and a half, we have been purchasing blood
fractionation services from a major
That process will continue, Sir, because
there is considerable debate at the Canadian Blood Agency and the proponents as
to whether initiatives in terms of Canadian presence in blood fractionation
would be an appropriate investment by the Canadian taxpayers.
Canadian
Blood Supply Integrity
Public
Hearings
Mr. Dave Chomiak
(Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, my final supplementary: Can the minister advise what the province's
position is with respect to the demands by many, including the Canadian
Hemophilia Society, that a national inquiry be held into the integrity of the
blood supply system in
* (1400)
Hon. Donald Orchard
(Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, if I recall recent news reports again,
I think that the federal minister has indicated that that issue is under active
consideration by his ministry and by his department.
Mr. Speaker, I want to indicate to my
honourable friend that the very unfortunate circumstances that hemophiliacs in
Canada found themselves in as a result of tainted blood supplies from the mid‑'80s
is one in which
We have, in terms of provincial participation
to support those individuals, offered as much support as we can through our
various departmental expenditures and programs, not exclusive to the Ministry
of Health. We are supporting their
ongoing medical and other needs in the community circle.
Labour
Certification Program
Ms. Jean Friesen
(Wolseley): Mr. Speaker, one of the legacies of the
Roblin government was that it made a genuine effort to try and bridge the gap between
labour and management in this province by introducing educational programs for
both management and labour. This
government has cut the Labour Certificate Program at the
I want to ask the Minister of Labour what
he thinks the implications of that are for the continuing labour‑management
relations in
Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister
of Labour): Mr. Speaker, I hardly think that, I believe
it was, a $2,500 grant marks the death of a program. I think that is gross exaggeration.
Ms. Friesen: Mr. Speaker, did the minister check with the
Dave's
Quick Print
Unfair
Labour Practices
Ms. Jean Friesen
(Wolseley): I want to ask the Minister of Labour if he
will explain why the grant of $8,000 to Dave's Quick Print to train replacement
workers to take the Queen's Printer's jobs should not be considered an unfair
labour practice.
Hon. Darren Praznik
(Minister of Labour): Mr. Speaker, if
anyone wants to pursue an unfair labour practice, as the member for Wolseley I
would assume would know, there is a process before the
I would just point out, though, for the
benefit of members of this House that of the 50 or so employees in the office
of the Queen's Printer, through our placement process I think there were 10 or
less to date that we have yet to find jobs for, so we have employed almost
40. There have been a few who retired.
So the process has worked very well to
ensure that the people affected, Mr. Speaker, had minimum effect on their
lives.
Morgentaler
Clinic
Medical
Claims
Ms. Becky Barrett (
Will the Minister of Health now, a month
later, assure the people of
Hon. Donald Orchard
(Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, it was
indicated to me at the time of that decision by the Court of Appeal which found
that there was no charter contravention or Canada Health Act contravention by
the regulation as struck, which was very, very important, and I am sure my
honourable friend would want to acknowledge the importance of those two
findings of the Court of Appeal.
What the Court of Appeal found, Sir, is that
as written in our legislation under The Health Services Insurance Act, we did
not have the appropriate wording to assure that we had, by regulation, the
ability to determine where medical services are provided.
I indicated after that decision that it would
be the intention of government and myself to bring in the appropriate
amendments which would have the effectiveness to the date of the court
decision.
Ms. Barrett: Mr. Speaker, until he brings in legislation to
the contrary, the Minister of Health, if he is not paying for those services,
is in contravention of the Court of Appeal's ruling.
Will the Minister of Health now tell the
House that he will follow the law and will pay for those therapeutic abortion
services provided by the Morgentaler Clinic since March 2?
Mr. Orchard: Mr. Speaker, as I indicated, post that
decision, and as I have consistently indicated at any time my honourable
friends the New Democrats have posed this question, we are complying with the
provision of therapeutic abortion services in a number of hospitals in the
We are, as the Court of Appeal has found,
in full compliance with the
Surely, Sir, that should suffice to my
honourable friend's concerns. Certainly
it complies with our requirements of insured service provision under the
mandate of my ministry and this government's responsibility for health care
service provision.
Health Care
System
Duplication
of Services
Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The
Maples): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister
of Health.
Mr. Speaker, the complex issue of walk‑in
clinics and the perception of possible duplication of services is not unique to
Blaming one section of the health care
sector is not going to solve the problem.
Both the health care providers and the patients must be accountable.
Can the Minister of Health now consider a
proposal that each and every time a patient goes and sees a doctor at a clinic
he should sign and make sure the patient is being told how much is being paid
on his or her behalf by the taxpayers of
Hon. Donald Orchard
(Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, my honourable friend has made
that suggestion in the past. I have to
say that concept has merit in terms of the opportunity to educate users of our
health care services to what the costs of various physician office visits are.
I seriously investigated my honourable
friend's suggestion, but we have, as my honourable friend may well be aware, a
number of physician offices that electronic bill. In essence, there is no formal paper work
that is sent into the Ministry of Health. That has complicated the opportunity
to try and implement an initiative which will have the end result my honourable
friend desires.
We have been discussing other initiatives
which we hope will achieve what my honourable friend I think wants to do in
terms of public education around costs.
Mr. Cheema: Mr. Speaker, the duplication of services
within $1.8 billion can occur. As the
minister has pointed out, there are many possibilities.
Smart Card
System
Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The
Maples): Can the Minister of Health tell us what specific
actions are going to be taken to make sure that the smart card system is
implemented to make sure that the system is used as effectively as possible?
Hon. Donald Orchard
(Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, part of the throne speech
starting this session was the commitment that we were intent on introducing the
smart card, plastic card technology in terms of its application across the
health care system.
I reinforced that where I guess it was
just some two weeks ago when my honourable friend had a private member's
resolution on the Pharmacard, which is a program application of the smart card,
where I believe all members of the House unanimously passed that resolution
proposed by my honourable friend the member for The Maples.
That further reinforces the commitment
that this government has to implement the plastic‑card‑type
technology across our billing system and to do it as quickly as is physically
possible, Sir.
Department
of Education Mailing Costs
Mr. John Plohman
(Dauphin): Mr. Speaker, we have said
repeatedly in this House and pointed out to the Minister of Education that she
has failed to provide adequate funding for the education of children in this
province.
Yet, she seems to have money to send out
thousands of letters to teachers in this province to try to explain this
failure to provide adequate funding to them and to the children of this
province in education.
I want to ask this minister how many
thousands of letters she sent out and what the cost of these letters was, and I
want her to also point out whether she has more appropriate ways to spend money
in her department.
* (1410)
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey
(Minister of Education and Training): Mr.
Speaker, yes, a letter was sent to all the teachers in this province.
The reason is that I did have, with the
Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), an opportunity to speak with the educational
leaders, their representatives, the trustees, the Manitoba Teachers' Society in
one room.
I was able also to do that with the
universities, but I was not able to call every teacher in this province
together in one room and deliver the same message, so I had one way to
communicate that same message to teachers.
Teachers need the same information. They needed to hear a direct, unfiltered
message, and that is what I sent to all the teachers of this province.
Mr. Plohman: Some message, Mr. Speaker.
Education
System
Funding
Formula
Mr. John Plohman
(Dauphin): I want to ask this minister, since she said in
her letter, and I quote, the problem is nobody wants to invest in an unstable,
debt‑ridden province, whether that is the official line of this province
now, that is the reason for the cuts, or is it the minister's, the Premier's
statements that the private sector is doing everything in this province, investing,
and we are in tremendous growth in this province?
What is the real reason here? What is the real story?
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey
(Minister of Education and Training): Mr.
Speaker, the purpose of the letter also was to make sure that teachers understood
that they were not the only ones who were being asked to share. The point was to make sure that teachers
understood, directly from this government, the position of this government, the
financial position of this government and how we as Manitobans have to come
together to each do our share to make sure that our province continues to be
successful and is more successful.
Education
System
Funding
Formula
Mr. John Plohman
(Dauphin): Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Premier (Mr.
Filmon): Is he now saying, after five
years of Tory government in this province, that we are reduced to being
described by his Minister of Education as a debt‑ridden, unstable
province? Is that the message they are
communicating?
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): No, Mr. Speaker, in fact, what we are doing
is to ensure that we avoid that prospect by virtue of the decisions that we are
making. The member obviously has
difficulty understanding that that is what we are trying to avoid by ensuring
that we take the proper measures while we have the opportunity.
I might say that I do not understand why
the member for Dauphin (Mr. Plohman) has difficulty with sending out letters to
say things about what government is doing.
He has just sent out a letter recently
signed John Plohman, MLA for Dauphin, in which his last line of the letter
is: The problem we have, of course, that
the mass media in
Mr. Speaker: The time for Oral Questions has expired.
Introduction
of Guests
Mr. Speaker: I would like to draw to the attention of
honourable members the loge to my right, where we have with us this afternoon
Mr. J. Frank Johnston, the former member for Sturgeon Creek.
On behalf of all honourable members, I
would like to welcome you here this afternoon.
Also, this afternoon in the loge to my
left, we have Mr. Sid Green, the former member for
On behalf of all honourable members, I
would like to welcome you here this afternoon.
Nonpolitical Statements
Mr. Gerry McAlpine
(Sturgeon Creek): Do I have leave for a nonpolitical statement?
Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member for Sturgeon Creek
have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]
Mr. McAlpine: Mr. Speaker, nowhere in the lands across the
sea is the link with bonny
These newcomers braved starvation, the
weather, floods and the crackle of gunfire to put their roots into their colony
at the junction of the Red and
The first settlers from Sutherlandshire,
the Orkneys, and elsewhere in the old
Indeed, West and East Kildonan, separated
by the
Mr. Speaker, I am proud to stand in this
Chamber today, a place of honour, representing the McAlpine Clan attired in my
McAlpine tartan along with my guest representing the Clans Ross, McIntosh,
Fraser, Douglas, Campbell, Hepburn and McPherson. We stand together in honour of this day,
April 6, as Tartan Day throughout
On behalf of all Scots in
Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member for
Ms. Becky Barrett (
As someone who came from the
I would just like to, again, on behalf of
our caucus, congratulate the people of Scottish heritage for the celebration of
Tartan Day.
Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable Leader of the second
opposition party have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs
(Leader of the Second Opposition): I too
wish to join in the celebration of Tartan Day.
Tartan Days began, as a matter of fact, in the
I suspect, Mr. Speaker, I have the honour
of being the only member of the Legislature who has ever fitted a Tory cabinet
minister for a kilt. I did indeed fit
George Hees for a kilt in 1959 when I worked at the tartan shop in
The Scottish heritage is very much a part
of all of our heritages‑‑[interjection] Mr. Filmon is asking a
question the answer to which is, yes.
The heritage of tartans belongs to each
and every one of us, because in this multicultural nation that we live in, we
are all blessed by being able to rejoice in the participation of all of the
ethnic communities that make up so much a very vital part of this nation called
House
Business
Hon. Jim Ernst (Acting
Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, it is expected
that the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) will deliver his Budget Address at
2:30 p.m. I propose that we recess until
that time, perhaps ringing the bell once with two minutes before.
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. We will recess the House accordingly, and the
buzzers will ring at exactly 2:28 so that we would be back in for 2:30 for the
address by the honourable Minister of Finance.
* (1420)
* * *
The House took recess at
2:20 p.m.
After Recess
The House resumed at
2:32 p.m.
Hon. Clayton Manness
(Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I move,
seconded by the Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae), that this House approve in
general the budgetary policy of the government.
Motion presented.
BUDGET
ADDRESS
Hon. Clayton Manness
(Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I am
honoured to present our government's sixth budget to the Legislative Assembly
and the people of
On the road to building
In the months and years ahead, the
challenge for all Manitobans is to protect and preserve this quality of life,
by pulling together and having the courage to make some sacrifices today for a
better life tomorrow.
We are faced with significant challenges
that are very different and much more complex than those faced by earlier
generations.
Make no mistake about it. These challenges present a threat so clear
and ominous that many Manitobans have begun to fear that they will be unable to
pass on to their children the same standard of living that they have enjoyed.
Their fears are well‑founded. For, if we continue to live beyond our means,
and to spend and borrow without the ability to pay the bills, we will not be
able to provide for our children the quality of life our grandparents worked so
hard to achieve for us.
Nor should we be lulled into thinking
there are quick fixes to our problems, for none exist. Problems which have grown over decades will
not be swept away overnight.
However, if we act quickly, decisively and
with compassion, I believe we have an opportunity to ensure we pass on what was
so preciously passed to us.
The task is immense, so too are the
rewards.
Confronting
the Challenge
The
only way to ensure that much of what we enjoy today is passed on to future
generations is by living within our means. Unfortunately, over the past 20
years, governments have not been that wise.
While revenue was rising an average of 10 percent a year, government
spent far more than it earned, and borrowed to the hilt to finance programs it
could not afford.
Today this mountain of provincial debt,
over $45,000 for a family of four, overshadows the present, and threatens to bury
the future of the vital services that generations of Manitobans worked so
diligently to create.
Last year alone, interest costs exceeded
the combined spending of 12 government departments, and consumed 42 cents of
each
In
1992‑93, our difficulties were further complicated by:
a $130 million revenue shortfall, due
primarily to lowerincome tax revenue and lower federal transfer payments;
a $30 million increase in debt‑servicing
costs, causedprincipally by a softening of the dollar; and
a $67 million liability for repayment of
transfers,caused by a federal change in the methodology forestimating
population for 1992.
When combined, this leaves the provincial
government with a forecasted deficit of $562 million‑‑$232 million
more than the original budget.
Living on
a Budget
In
each of our homes, when spending overtakes income, and when there is no way to
earn more, habits must be changed, and family members asked to do more with
less. Governments are not immune to this
reality.
So we began our budget process by
examining every dollar that government spends:
all programs, tax credits and public sector salaries. In the coming budget year, program expenditure
will be reduced by 2 percent or $100 million.
Public debt costs have increased by $30
million, the largest dollar increase of any line in the spending
Estimates. This money was simply not
available for priority health and education services for Manitobans.
Departmental spending breakdowns include a
1.2 percent reduction in each of Health and Education, and a 4.5 percent
increase in Family Services. With the
exception of Rural Development and Environment, all other departments will
experience spending reductions, some as high as 14 percent.
In the medium term, this situation is not
expected to change. In fact, total
program expenditure will continue to decline by 1 percent in 1994‑95, and
remain flat through 1996‑97.
In the 1993‑94 fiscal year,
expenditure reduction plans include the following measures:
a 5 percent across‑the‑board
cut in administrativeexpenses will save taxpayers nearly $11 million;
18 administrative and personnel branches
will beconsolidated into fewer units;
the salaries of all members of the
Legislature, allmembers of boards and commissions, as well as provincialcourt
judges will be reduced by 3.8 percent;
the freeze on salaries paid to all members
of Cabinetwill be continued for the 13th consecutive year;
513 Civil Service staff years will be
eliminated, withpermanent layoffs held to fewer than 100 as a result
ofattrition, aggressive redeployment efforts and voluntaryretirements;
a reduced workweek program will be
introduced for allprovincial civil servants, in order to trim salary costsby
3.8 percent and to avoid further layoffs;
all government‑funded entities,
including Crowncorporations and those providing education and healthcare
services, must achieve similar salary savingsthrough measures such as the
reduced workweek; thisapplies to all public sector employees, includingdoctors,
nurses, teachers and university professors;
all Crown corporations, agencies and
others funded bythe government, either directly or indirectly, muststreamline
their organizations.
Together, these measures move government
one step closer to living within its means.
However, to achieve this goal, we must remain committed to making the
necessary decisions in the future, regardless of how difficult they may be.
* (1440)
Preserving
Priorities
To
date, this decision‑making process has not been an easy one. In fact, it has been nothing short of a
struggle to find a way to preserve the programs that lie at the very heart of
what we love most about
Without question, this has been the most
difficult and trying exercise of my entire 12‑year career as an elected
official. Frankly, it is because there were no decisions in health care,
education or family services that my colleagues and I wanted to make; only
decisions we knew we had to make, if we were to secure our economic future and
the core of our social safety net for today and for the future.
We understand it is of little comfort to
explain that things could have been much worse, for we know our decisions will
cause some hardship. However, our goal
was to avoid the widespread suffering that would have been the result of much
harsher measures, like massive layoffs and significant tax increases. These are
choices we could have made. However,
knowing the course Manitobans want us to take, they were choices we refused to
make.
The priorities that guided our spending
decisions this year are the same as those that have guided us over the past
five years. In my six budgets, we have
chosen to allocate 92 percent of all new spending toward our most vital
services.
Increases since 1987‑88 total: $504 million or 38 percent more for Health;
$259 million or 34 percent more for Education; and $247 million or 60 percent
more for Family Services.
Again, Mr. Speaker, I reiterate, 92
percent of all new spending over the course of our first five budgets have been
directed to those three priority areas.
Even at this year's funding level of $3.5
billion for these three departments, there were difficult choices to be made
during the budget process.
In Family Services, for instance, we were
able to preserve programming for our most vulnerable citizens, including
children at risk, the physically and mentally challenged, senior citizens and
the most needy social assistance recipients.
To accomplish this, we were forced to find
savings by asking parents to pay a little more in daycare, by asking foster
parents to accept less, and by reducing dental, optical and pharmaceutical
benefits for social assistance recipients.
In the Department of Health, we were able
to maintain the Home Care base budget, continue the conversion toward personal
care beds for our aging population, and expand community‑based mental
health services‑‑all major components of health care reform. To do so, we had to ask hospitals to cut
administrative costs, and Manitobans to pay more for Pharmacare and for low‑cost
home care supplies and household maintenance.
Similarly, we maintained the prevention component of the children's
dental health program, but in doing so, we were unable to continue providing
treatment services.
In Agriculture, we preserved the
principles of the Gross Revenue Insurance Program (GRIP), but we were forced to
find savings in programs such as hail spot loss insurance and Superior
Management benefits.
Government skills training initiatives are
being consolidated in the Department of Education and Training to better co‑ordinate
these programs and strengthen their linkages to our economic strategy.
In the area of government grants, we were
able to continue funding groups and organizations whose central focus was the
delivery of key human services. However,
to do so, we had to withdraw funding from organizations where service delivery
is not the main focus, or where government can or already does provide similar
service.
The budget also includes $289 million in
capital spending, down slightly from last year, but still on a per capita basis
amongst the highest in
In isolation, each of the difficult
decisions taken on the expenditure side may not appear to make very much of a
difference to overall spending. However,
when taken together, they total savings of $100 million, and make a significant
contribution to the renewal of our province.
Creating
Conditions for Growth
To
enhance our renewal efforts further, government must continue to create a local
climate that is conducive to economic growth in an increasingly competitive
global economy.
Already, firms like Standard Aero, ISM
Corporation, Ayerst Organics, Monsanto, Palliser, D.W. Friesen and Teshmont
engineering, to name a few located in
No factor is more important in encouraging
business investment than a competitive taxation environment.
As a government, we have worked diligently
to move
In an effort to keep
Transportation
In
recognition of the vital role transportation plays in the provincial economy,
we will take the following action:
diesel fuel tax will be frozen for one
year in order tosupport the trucking industry‑‑this leaves
railway diesel fuel tax will be reduced by
3.15 cents alitre to 9.45 cents to support this important area ofemployment in
aviation fuel tax will be reduced from 5
cents a litreto 4.2 cents to boost local airport activity.
Manufacturing
To
encourage further investment in new manufacturing and processing in
Small
Business
To
assist small business in creating new jobs, we will increase the payroll tax
exemption from $600,000 to $750,000. This will result in the removal or
reduction of the payroll tax for about 900 small
A Shared
Solution
Despite
our best efforts to reduce spending and stimulate the economy, the serious
financial situation we are facing has forced changes aimed at generating more
revenue. Therefore, effective midnight
tonight, gasoline tax will be increased one cent a litre to 11.5 cents, the
fourth‑lowest rate in
In a move to help protect local jobs and
level the playing field for retail business,
Effective May 1, 1993, provincial sales
tax will apply to snack foods, nonprescription drugs, newspapers and magazines,
personal hygiene supplies, certain safety equipment, school supplies, baby
supplies, and sewing patterns. Books
will continue to be tax exempt.
Also effective May 1, provincial sales tax
will be applied to children's clothing costing more than $100 per item,
purchases of safety clothing and footwear, and restaurant meals under $6.
Effective August 1, 1993, the application
of provincial sales tax on private automobile sales will be tightened to ensure
sales tax is collected on the fair market value.
These sales tax changes raise $39.4
million this year, and help us keep the sales tax rate at 7 percent, the second
lowest in
* (1450)
Last year, the
The property tax credit on tax statements
will be reduced by $75 to $250.
Manitobans with family income less than $27,500 will recover at least a
portion of the reduction when they file their income tax returns. Homeowners and tenants with higher income
will have their credits reduced by $75.
A minimum property tax threshold of $250
before tax credits will be introduced.
This will ensure that every property owner makes some contribution to
the provision of local services.
The income definition used to determine tax
credits will be broadened to include previously exempt income from social
allowances, workers compensation, or Guaranteed Income Supplements. This will ensure that, regardless of income
source, people with the same income levels receive the same level of credits.
All applicants for the $175 benefit under
the Pensioners' School Tax Assistance Program will be income tested. Those having an income less than $15,000 will
continue to receive the full benefit.
Benefits will phase down to zero at $23,800 in income. Instead of receiving this benefit at property
tax time, benefits will be delivered through the tax credit application process
at income tax time.
The tax credit program changes also result
in a $5 million reduction in tax credit supplements paid directly to provincial
social allowances recipients through Family Services.
Toward a
Stronger
In
the course of this budget process, we have called upon all Manitobans to do
their part to protect all that we hold dear.
As a result of their sacrifices, we have
been able to control major sales and income taxes, and introduce new ways to
encourage continued economic growth.
Of equal importance is the progress
Manitobans have helped us achieve in the area of deficit reduction. When combined, our entire package of
expenditure and revenue measures will result in a deficit of $367 million. This is a $195 million or 35 percent
reduction from the 1992‑93 forecast.
In part, this is as a result of a $30
million transfer from the Fiscal Stabilization Fund, and a $60 million draw
from lottery revenue, including 65 percent of annual video lottery terminal
revenue.
While there have been many competing
requests for VLT revenue, Manitobans steadfastly believe that there is no more
urgent use for these funds than deficit reduction. To that end, our plan includes continued use
of lottery revenue until the deficit is eliminated.
We will dedicate the remaining $12.3
million or 35 percent of rural VLT revenue to supporting continued economic
growth and development in rural regions.
Of that total, $8.8 million, representing 25 percent of annual VLT
revenue, will provide an increased allocation for the Rural Economic
Development Initiative, as well as funding for special economic development
projects.
The remaining $3.5 million, representing
10 percent of annual VLT revenue, will be transferred by formula to local
governments. Further details will be
presented during the Estimates review.
There is no question that the Fiscal
Stabilization Fund and lottery transfers have played an important role in our
ability to reach a $367 million deficit.
However, our ultimate goal is to balance
the budget. To do so, we must continue
our focus on controlling spending at or below current levels; we must
experience revenue growth between 2 and 3 percent; and we must continue to
control taxes in order to attract investment that is essential to long‑term
recovery.
In 1994‑95, our deficit is targeted
to be $256 million. We expect to reduce
it further to $125 million in 1995‑96, and balance the budget in 1996‑97.
Balancing the budget is an important goal,
but not our sole motivation. In reality,
it is a means to an end, a way to ensure that our children will not be bound by
the burden of debt that prevents them from enjoying the services and quality of
life that we have been afforded.
Preserving this legacy has been our
driving force, a force that will keep on guiding us as we continue on the path
toward a stronger
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of
the Opposition): I move, seconded by the member for Flin Flon
(Mr. Storie), that debate now be adjourned.
Motion
agreed to.
Messages
Hon. Clayton Manness
(Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I have
two messages from His Honour the Lieutenant‑Governor.
Mr. Speaker: All rise.
The Lieutenant‑Governor transmits,
to the Legislative Assembly of
Also, the Lieutenant‑Governor
transmits, to the Legislative Assembly of
Be seated.
Mr. Manness: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister
of Environment (Mr. Cummings), that the said messages together with the
Estimates accompanying the same be referred to the Committee of Supply.
Motion agreed to.
Mr. Manness: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister
of Energy and Mines (Mr. Downey), that this House do now adjourn.
Motion agreed to, and the House
adjourned and stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow (Wednesday).