ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Federal Transfer Payments
Reduction
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, unfortunately, yesterday, the federal government passed the bill that both changes the vision of the way Canada operates and reduces the funds to provinces in vital programs dealing with health, post-secondary education and social transfers, a vision that turns this country into 10 separate jurisdictions and provinces and territories.
Madam Speaker, this also reduces the provincial government's share of funding by some $247 million over the next couple of years.
Before the election, Madam Speaker, we asked the Premier what he was going to do about this, and he said in Hansard and in this Legislature that he would try to get the Liberals to change their mind, and he would try to get the Liberals to support the provincial government in getting the money out of a so-called slush fund that the federal Liberals have created, so that we would not have a shortfall of $87 million next year, and we would not have a shortfall of $247 million by the time this reduction takes place.
I would like to ask the Premier whether he has been successful in reinstating that money, as he committed himself to try to do before the election.
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Regrettably, Madam Speaker, we have no commitments from the federal government for additional funding or for a greater share of the transitional funding in recognition of some key issues that we have to deal with here, with concerns that we have about many areas of social services.
But I can say this. This government will continue to make health care its greatest priority. In fact, by spending almost 34 percent of our entire provincial expenditures on health care, we are the province that devotes the highest proportion of its budget to health care of any province in Canada.
We will continue to keep those priorities before us as we make our decisions, but it is regrettable that the transfers from Ottawa are going to make it more and more difficult for us to achieve all of the kinds of programming and services that we want to.
Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, both the Premier and the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) indicated that they would put a total effort into getting the federal government to reverse its position, that they would meet with the federal government. They would do everything possible to get the federal government to change its mind.
I would like to ask the Premier of the province, the Minister of Federal-Provincial Relations, why the provincial government felt it was a priority to send two ministers to deal with the federal government changes in C-68, and why the provincial government could not find the effort and priority to send one minister to oppose the bill that would introduce these massive cuts in health, post-secondary education and social services here in the province of Manitoba, Madam Speaker.
Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, we have let it be known very clearly that we are opposed to the massive cuts that have taken place in federal transfers to this province.
We have let it be known at many different forums, on many different occasions, publicly in the media and in every other way, that we oppose these reductions in transfers to the programs that serve the most vulnerable people and the areas that are considered to be the highest priority by most people in our province, health, education, family services.
These are the areas of service that we have continued to increase as a proportion of our provincial budget and to increase in the totality of our spending. In fact, 90 percent of all new program dollars that we have spent in this province during the period that we have been in office have gone to health, education and family services, Madam Speaker.
We certainly do not believe that the federal approach to this is right, and we have spared no effort to make our views known.
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Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, we are very disappointed on this side that when the government talked a good line before the election and in this House in their own budget and when they had an opportunity to show up to the federal parliamentary committee and put their position clearly on the record, they chose to do so on Bill C-68, which was consistent with their public position, but on Bill C-76 they did not show up, which is absolutely inconsistent with their position publicly.
I would like to ask the Premier, is it possible that we did not have the time and energy to stand up for health, post-secondary education and social services because the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) and others were so tied up wheeling and dealing on the Winnipeg Jets that they could not stand up for health and post-secondary education here in Manitoba.
Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, not only have we written ministers, this government written to their counterparts in Ottawa and urged them, at the highest levels, to reverse this decision they have made, to consider the needs of Manitoba with respect to these services that are so vital to Manitobans, we, of course, as a provincial government, as well, have ensured that these particular topics are on the agenda for the western Premiers' conference, for the annual Premiers' conference. They are the major topic of discussion.
These are the things that we have done. I recall that when the Pawley government was faced with the same dilemma, they hired the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) and set up a huge bureaucracy that was called the Fair Share Office and achieved absolutely nothing except that they spent more money of the taxpayers for a bureaucrat, who then could be a political activist for them, and they achieved zero for the public, and they cost the taxpayers more money. That is their approach, and we reject that approach.
Home Care Program
Funding Levels
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, it is very hard to attach a lot of credibility to the Premier's (Mr. Filmon) statements about protecting health care, when the legacy of this government in health care is cuts and slashes.
Madam Speaker, yesterday in the House, the minister indicated for the Premier that last year they had inflated, before the election, the number of personal care home beds in the province.
My question to the Premier or the minister today is, can the minister explain why last year in his own documents they pledged to spend $52,252,000 on direct service for home care, and this year they have cut that budget by $1.7 million and what effect that will have on home care in this province, given their platitudes earlier and the comments of this Premier.
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): In spite of very difficult recessionary conditions in recent years in Manitoba, in spite of the declining support that we get from the federal government, not only this one, but also the one before and the one before that for health and post-secondary education, we have been able to virtually double the spending on the Home Care program in the space of seven years here in Manitoba.
In the last five years alone, Madam Speaker, we have put over 750 more people to work in our Home Care program.
Mr. Chomiak: Like yesterday, the minister did not answer the question.
Can the minister explain whether last year's figure of $52.252 million was an inflated figure, like the personal care home figure yesterday, or is it a downsizing this year, down to $50.486 million? What was it, an inflated figure last year or a cut this year?
Mr. McCrae: Just for the record with respect to personal care home spaces in Manitoba, there has been a massive increase in personal care home capacity in the last seven years in Manitoba, over 500 additional personal care home spaces and hundreds more under the Capital program of this government.
The honourable member and I discussed that yesterday, and, no doubt, will have an opportunity to discuss it again. I can only repeat what I said about the Home Care program. The Home Care program has been growing and growing and growing, and more and more people are accessing home care services, which makes hospital beds more readily available for people who need to have them.
We can look after people in their homes, and we have good staff throughout the province, and we are looking for continued partnership with the facilities in Manitoba to make the transition to home care as easy as we can make it.
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Mr. Chomiak: How can the minister explain cuts to hospitals this year of 2 percent and down $14 million, fewer personal care home beds this year from last year, and, in addition to that, a cut of $1.7 million to the very home care workers and the home care programs that are supposed to replace those cuts?
How does the minister explain it, Madam Speaker?
Mr. McCrae: Well, Madam Speaker, when you are at River East Personal Care Home, visiting the brand new spaces there and visiting with the residents, you can explain to them the direction the government is going in home care, or when you go to Donwood Manor or Kildonan Personal Care Centre.
In total, we are talking about 280 in those three alone, Madam Speaker. The honourable member asks how. We say we do so with pleasure, because the staff in those places are dedicated to providing a comforting, relaxing and home-like atmosphere for the residents there, and that is a good direction for us to be going in.
Post-Secondary Education
Funding
Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Education.
Madam Speaker, I know the minister is aware that the federal plans for withdrawal from post-secondary education will have a serious impact on Manitoba's future. Not only do we lose cash transfers, but we lose 25 percent of research monies, not just in agriculture, but in medicine, social sciences and sciences.
We are also losing the only national scholarship program that we had, from which Manitobans also benefited.
Madam Speaker, an Informetrica study recently showed that Manitoba university enrollment will decrease by 8,000 in 1996.
I want to ask the Minister of Education if she can table in the House what representation she has made to Ottawa to convey to them the very serious impact this will have on Manitoba families.
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): I think the member is aware that all of us on this side of the House, and we would welcome being joined by our colleagues on the other side of the House, as well, have taken the opportunity to phone, to contact for many, many weeks, indeed months, those counterparts we have federally.
She may not be aware that there is no federal Minister of Education, but I personally have contacted Manitoba M.P.s, and as the Premier (Mr. Filmon) has indicated, the First Ministers, in their meetings and in their contacts and ongoing dialogue with each other, as high priority, discussed these types of issues.
If the member would also like to share with me the number of contacts she has made with federal M.P.s on this issue, I would be pleased to support her thrust in the contacts that she and her colleagues have made with federal M.P.s.
Ms. Friesen: Could the minister tell us how many additional places are going to be made available in Manitoba's community colleges to accommodate those prospective 8,000 students, who will no longer be in universities?
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Mrs. McIntosh: I am surprised that the member has the ability to project so exactly what is going to be happening in the future. I would indicate, Madam Speaker, that the member knows, because she has an understanding of statistics, that in times of high unemployment, universities and colleges have increased enrollment. In times of strength in the economy when jobs are more available, you will see a resulting decrease in enrollment. That is true right across the nation.
There are articles--even just last week in our newspapers such as The Globe and Mail, for example, some of the national newspapers--which indicate that overall trend across Canada, and, certainly, with our adherence to the Roblin report, principles of restructuring, we expect to see opportunities for students at the post-secondary level.
Ms. Friesen: I want to emphasize for the minister that the numbers were not mine. They were--
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Ms. Friesen: Could the minister tell us the impact of the decline in the university and the community college enrollment that I understand must be happening, from her answer--what is going to be the impact of that on Manitoba's need for a highly educated workforce?
Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, the member is aware of the amount of money that we have pumped into community colleges, for example, massive increases long overdue, recommended by Roblin, not put in place under the New Democratic government, training people for the real jobs that do exist in the marketplace. The member is aware of the standards of excellence we are setting in place to be reached at all levels of education. The member is aware of the contents of the Roblin report and our commitment to it.
Madam Speaker, we are looking at working with industry, working with students, identifying and preparing curricula that will be relevant to the needs of students in Manitoba, to prepare them not just for the workforce in Manitoba, but any place they may care to travel.
Palliative Care
Funding Levels
Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Health.
Yesterday's Senate committee report that rejected the right to assisted suicide instead recommended sweeping changes to palliative care, pain control and withholding or withdrawing lifesaving treatment.
Yet, over the last seven years, palliative care units in Manitoba's hospitals have been cut, and we have learned that in the Princess Elizabeth Hospital, the palliative care unit has been severely cut despite the fact that caregivers do not feel the necessary palliative care home support services are in place in the community.
Can the minister tell the House how his government can justify spending millions of dollars on the Jets while terminally ill people are losing palliative care services?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, in a province where the highest percentage of government spending is being spent on health care, it needs to be remembered that palliative care and different methods of palliative care are all part of the equation when it comes to the delivery of a variety of services.
We certainly work with people involved in the field to see that our palliative care services are appropriate for the needs that are in our communities. Palliative care is carried out in various institutions, but it is also carried out in many instances at home, and our government is always there to work with others in the system to see that our palliative care services are appropriate.
Ms. McGifford: What justification can the minister give the House for the tendering to a private firm of the home IV program, currently administered by the Victorian Order of Nurses in conjunction with the home visiting contract for palliative care patients, especially given the importance of the continuity of care for these patients?
Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, the difference in approach sometimes between the one put forward by the honourable member and her colleagues and the one put forward by us is that our approach is one which places the emphasis on the patient.
I would say to the honourable member that rather than line up with what the union bosses think is the right thing to do, I would like to line up with the patients of this province and attempt to provide the most appropriate service for them.
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Advocate Services
Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Since a number of concerns have been expressed about the adequacy of home support services, like home care attendants, when will adequate services be put in place to ensure that people can die with dignity in their own homes, and what overall changes are planned for palliative care services to respond to the recommendations of the Senate committee on this issue?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the provision of palliative and other forms of health care services is an ongoing concern of our department and those with whom we work on an ongoing basis in the community and in the institutions. That sometimes has included, certainly on one occasion, a very positive experience we had, and the patients of Seven Oaks Hospital had, with a private firm.
The NDP have said they support that approach on the one hand, but the questions brought out today demonstrate they did not really mean it when they said that, because they must have had some discussions with their union boss friends in the meantime, Madam Speaker.
Judicial System
Custody Hearings
Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.
The Liberal Party in Manitoba has gone to great lengths to point out that police officers spend too much time sitting in courthouses when they should be out in the communities patrolling the streets. This government has the opportunity to change this.
At the end of June, custody hearings are moving to 408 York and will now be done by magistrates rather than hearing officers.
Will the minister assure this House that there will be sufficient resources, specifically Crown attorneys, sheriff's officers and so on, so police officers can immediately turn over their prisoners and return to the street where they are needed?
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, the member has referenced the move from the St. Boniface courthouse to 408 York, a move which was negotiated by a committee chaired by the chief judge, and we believe that location will be very helpful and perhaps more central.
The member also knows, I am sure, that as of April 1, with changes by the federal minister, police are able to release with conditions now, which they were unable to do in the past. However, I understand there is also a training process which the member should be well aware of, and that is an internal process which will be required to be done by the police.
However, it is very interesting, Madam Speaker, that this member is really very concerned about police officers being on the street when he and his party so strongly support Bill C-68, registration of firearms.
Young Offenders Night Court
Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples): I have another question for the Minister of Justice.
When will the minister produce a report on the success or failure of the young offenders night court and indicate whether night courts will continue for young offenders and possibly adults in the future?
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, we were very pleased to put forward a pilot project, an initiative of this government, a program of youth court that took place at night.
That project is currently being evaluated. It is being examined and I am looking forward to being able to say something about that, I hope no later than the fall.
Civil Court
Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples): I have one more question for the Minister of Justice.
Has the minister taken any steps to implement their party's election promise to streamline civil court proceedings in this province?
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I am pleased the member referenced one of the promises which we put forward during the election campaign which we will be moving to fulfill, and that is to look at the civil side of our court system to ensure that that side of the court system is operating as efficiently as possible.
The outline of the plan was presented during our election campaign, and I look forward to being able to announce the details of how that will work in the very near future.
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Department of Family Services
Federal Transfer Payments
Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, when the Canada Assistance Plan was repealed and replaced by the Canada Social Transfer Act, all of the provisions of CAP were gutted except one.
In figures provided by the Minister of Family Services in an analysis of the future transfers, it shows that in the 1996-97 fiscal year, the Department of Family Services will receive $38.2 million less from the federal government, and in the '97-98 fiscal year, $57.2 million less from the federal government.
I would like to ask the Minister of Family Services, how will her government and her department cope with this offloading from the federal government. How will it affect programs in her department in Community Living, Income Security and Child Care?
Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Madam Speaker, I thank my honourable friend for that question because, indeed, it is a concern for all members of this government in all of the departments that deal with people, especially health, education and social services.
Madam Speaker, we did put forward a paper tabled in the Legislature in the spring, a paper on Manitoba's perspective on social safety net reform and, in fact, what impacts that would have on Manitoba and some of the unique circumstances and situations that Manitoba faces that made it critical that special consideration be given to the province of Manitoba.
Madam Speaker, that was shared with all provinces across the country, and I received correspondence back from many other provincial ministers who felt our position was a strong position, a good position to put forward. It was shared with the federal government. We received no response back from them.
Not only are we receiving less as a result of the CAP changes, but, in fact, we have seen offloading on a regular basis over the last number of years since the federal government unilaterally decided to not fund supports for Status Indians off reserve in the areas of social allowance and child welfare. We are $70 million short already, and with the situation at Granville Lake and South Indian Lake, we stand to lose more, Madam Speaker.
Mr. Martindale: Madam Speaker, the question is, is this minister and her government going to cut programs in Family Services, such as Child Day Care or reduce housing allowances or the food budget?
What provisions are they going to make, or are they going to guarantee that there will be no reductions?
Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, again, I thank my honourable friend for that very good question.
It is an issue that we all have serious concern about, not only in Manitoba, but right across the country. Two weeks from now, when all of the ministers of social services are gathered here in Winnipeg for a ministers' conference, that will be one of the high-priority agenda items.
Manitoba is not in a unique circumstance, Madam Speaker. It is every province across the country that is going to be receiving less. The issues around all of the services to people are going to have to be very carefully looked at as we move into the future and see that the federal government has made it a very low priority, whereas we in Manitoba have made health, education and family services funding our highest priorities.
Social Assistance
Food Allowance
Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Will the Minister of Family Services look carefully and make it a high priority to keep the budget for children on city assistance at the current levels, which are higher than the provincial levels, or is this minister planning to take over city welfare in order to reduce the food allowance for children?
Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Madam Speaker, as I indicated in my two previous answers, this government, our government, under our Premier's (Mr. Filmon) leadership, has indeed maintained and enhanced support for health, for education and for family services at the expense of other government programs, and we will continue to ensure that they are our highest priorities.
Madam Speaker, we have also undertaken an initiative through the Child and Youth Secretariat to look at co-ordination of services, so we reduce and eliminate the overlap and the duplication from department to department to ensure that the dollars that we have to spend on children in the province of Manitoba are used to the maximum benefit for as many children as we can possibly serve.
So, Madam Speaker, we are committed to ensure that children in Manitoba come first and that our services and our priorities will reflect that.
Assiniboine Community College
Development Division
Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Madam Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Education.
In the major restructuring that has been announced for the Assiniboine Community College in Brandon, the college development division is being eliminated, involving four staff layoffs.
In the past year, this division sold training contracts to many, many organizations, bringing in approximately $2.1 million of federal training funds without requiring any provincial government funding.
My question to the minister is, why would your department eliminate a division of ACC that pays its own costs and generates additional training activity at Assiniboine Community College?
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, I should just indicate to the member for Brandon East that colleges have been given their own governance. Colleges have their own boards of governors. Colleges are able to make their own decisions. Colleges this year are faced with cuts from the federal government in purchasing seats that has caused them to have to do some rearranging and organizing from within. Our support for colleges remains high.
I have written to the federal minister, phoned the federal minister, done everything that I can to influence the federal minister. In the meantime, our financial support for colleges remains high, a very large increase in percentage and in dollars, and we applaud the colleges for the work that they are doing in governing their own affairs and in attempting to meet the needs of their people, even in the face of federal cuts.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Madam Speaker, I wonder if the minister would look into this and find out why this market-driven training centre is eliminated at ACC, when a similar centre is being retained elsewhere, such as at Red River Community College.
Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, as I indicated to the member, our support for colleges has increased to Assiniboine Community College by very large numbers, some $2.7 million to colleges.
The fact that they have had federal transfer cuts has caused them to make decisions. They have worked very hard to ensure that the decisions they make still offer students good quality of education, with increased opportunities for training that is applicable to the marketplace that the students are going to enter upon graduation.
The member references another college, Red River Community College, which also has the same self-governing ability. I believe I have answered the question on the first go-round, repeated it on the second go-round. If he wants to try a third time, I invite him to do so.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Those were two distinct questions, Madam Speaker, and I am not sure whether I got the answer to the question I posed.
Aboriginal Student Counsellor
Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): A third question--maybe she will look at Hansard and find out. The third question, Madam Speaker, I wonder if the minister would look into this.
Why would the senior aboriginal student counsellor be among those laid off at ACC, when Assiniboine Community College continues to have in excess of 200 aboriginal students enrolled?
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, it is not even Friday.
The college, of course, does its own hiring. It does its own reorganizing of staff. Attention is paid in the decisions that community colleges make. Witness Keewatin Community College, which in its adjustment and downsizing because of federal transfer cuts, has made arrangements to--it actually improves certain components of its delivery service for aboriginal students by bringing in elders and by ensuring that redeployment of staff has the aboriginal presence permeating all areas of the college, making it integral to all courses, as opposed to being isolated.
The aboriginal learning centre there, of course, is still in existence. Similarly at the other colleges, boards of governors pay special attention to the needs of their students and endeavour to meet them. With the extra money that they have been given from the province, they have some ability to make accommodations for those needs.
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Winnipeg Arena
Operating Losses
Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, the confusion on the matter of the losses of the Winnipeg Jets under the proposed new agreement with the child of MEC continues to grow. Today, John Loewen is quoted on the CBC saying that the private investors are trying to design an endowment fund to absorb any deficit, but he admits that if that does not work, public shareholders will be stuck with the losses.
My question for the Minister of Finance is based upon the regular briefings that the minister receives from his senior staff.
Will he confirm that, in fact, there are at present no guarantees whatsoever that the public sector will be 100 percent protected from absorbing operating losses?
Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): The discussions that have been taking place with the MEC group, the new private-sector investors and the current owners has always been on the basis that if an arrangement is struck whereby the ownership changes and a facility is built here in Winnipeg, one of the fundamental conditions is that the new group, the new ownership group, will take over responsibility for those losses starting this year in the 1995-96 hockey season.
That has always been a fundamental condition of any change in structure, always been a fundamental condition of building any new facility here in Manitoba, and that will continue to be a condition.
Mr. Loewen, the MEC group, all members are fully aware of that. I am assuming what you might have been referring to is that at the end of the day, they still have to raise $111 million. They have raised in excess of $60 million to date. That continues to be a challenge as part of what their side of closing the agreement is, Madam Speaker.
Public Shares
Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, I have a question to the same minister.
Will the 36 percent shares now held by the public sector be exposed to operating losses under any conditions or circumstances?
Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Absolutely not, Madam Speaker.
Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, to the same minister, are there any circumstances or conditions under which the public shares will be reduced in value relative to their value in comparison to the private-sector shares; that is, they are currently equal.
Are there any circumstances or conditions under which their value relative to those private shares will be reduced?
Mr. Stefanson: None that I am aware of, Madam Speaker. All discussions, all tentative agreements, have always been on the basis of the public-sector shares.
The public-sector shares are treated on the same basis as the private-sector shares, and based on the discussions that are taking place now, that is on the current estimated fair-market value with the public-sector shares having a value of approximately $30 million.
Residential Tenancies Branch
Work Orders
Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Madam Speaker, there has been a number of deteriorated and unsafe rental properties being brought to my attention. These are properties where the landlord is continuing to collect rent, even though there have been health inspections and there are outstanding work order repairs on the properties.
I want to ask the Minister responsible for the Residential Tenancies Commission if he can explain the comments he made last week when he said, the Residential Tenancies Branch may not even know there are work orders against these buildings unless they are brought to the attention of the Residential Tenancies Branch.
Can he clarify those comments for the House today?
Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Madam Speaker, as I indicated last week to the member for Radisson, fire department work orders, building and health work orders against particular properties in the city of Winnipeg are the responsibility of the city. They are there, first of all, to put them in place and, secondly, to enforce them against the building owners.
If it is brought to the attention of the Residential Tenancies Branch, we then investigate and determine if there is action necessary by the branch. If they are not necessarily brought to the attention of the branch, we may from time to time not know.
Ms. Cerilli: We have a system full of holes.
I want to ask the same minister, given that the requirements for the Residential Tenancies Branch are to ensure the provisions of The Residential Tenancies Act are understood and complied with by landlords and tenants, can he explain how this can happen if it is not automatic, if work orders by health inspectors are not automatically given to the Residential Tenancies Branch?
How can it do its job if it is not receiving either the city's work orders or its own department's work orders?
Mr. Ernst: Purely speaking, Madam Speaker, the Residential Tenancies Branch reacts to situations that occur. We are not out inspecting every building all the time. We do not have the staff for it, nor the mandate.
The mandate resides with the City of Winnipeg with respect to health inspection orders and with respect to building inspection orders and with respect to fire inspection orders. As a matter of fact, Madam Speaker, the City of Winnipeg by-laws govern, by and large, most of those types of activities.
If an order to repair is given and the landlord does not comply, it is brought to the attention of the Residential Tenancies Branch. Then we investigate and, if necessary, enforce.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. Time for Oral Questions has expired.
Speaker's Rulings
Madam Speaker: I have two rulings for the House today.
On May 29, 1995, during debate on the address in reply to the Speech from the Throne, I took under advisement a point of order raised by the opposition House leader (Mr. Ashton) respecting words he claimed were spoken by the First Minister (Mr. Filmon) from his seat. At that time, I indicated that I had not heard the words and would peruse Hansard and report back to the House.
As members will know, the printed Hansard contains no words spoken from his seat attributed to the First Minister in this instance. I also listened to the audio tape and was unable to hear the comment complained of by the opposition House leader.
Therefore, there is no point of order.
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Madam Speaker: I have a second ruling for the House today.
On Tuesday, May 30, the honourable member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) rose on a matter of privilege about comments made to him during the evening sitting on May 29 by the First Minister (Mr. Filmon).
After hearing from the honourable member, the government House leader, the honourable First Minister and the opposition House leader, I took the matter under advisement.
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First I want to say that I found this to be a very difficult ruling. Members will notice that I had just given a ruling on a matter which arose in the same debate and which involved the same sort of words.
I have listened carefully to the audio tapes and read the transcript of the remarks of both the member for The Pas and the Premier. The member for The Pas, in his submission on the matter of privilege, made reference to comments he said were made to him by the Premier from his seat.
As I ruled earlier, there is no indication in Hansard of such words, nor did I personally hear such comments. Therefore, I can only rule on what is in Hansard. What appears in the printed record from the Premier's speech is this: "I think that an individual like him, and I might say that I could be as vicious and as mean as he is by saying that I have heard oftentimes from people in his constituency in The Pas that they regard him as a racist. I could say that because that is the way he treats people in his area."
The Canadian authority on parliamentary privilege Joseph Maingot says that improper reflections by one honourable member upon another is a matter of unparliamentary language. That is, it is a matter of order, not a matter of privilege.
I would also observe that our own traditions and Manitoba Speakers' rulings are clear that the right time to raise such a matter is indeed when the words are spoken.
The former Manitoba Speaker Rocan and former House of Commons Speaker Fraser have had to deal with some very difficult issues involving the word "racist." In particular, on March 1, 1993, Speaker Rocan ruled that the phrase "those are racist comments" when spoken by a member about the words of another member in this House were indeed unparliamentary and asked that they be withdrawn.
In addition, on November 1, 1990, the Speaker ruled that the phrase "potentially racist attitudes" was out of order and directed that the phrase be withdrawn.
Members may recall that on May 29, I intervened after both the member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) and the Premier (Mr. Filmon) had used the word "racist" and cautioned both of them. I note that earlier on the evening in question, the member for The Pas had said "I have on a regular basis heard comments by our people, comments saying that programs and services, policies enunciated by this Premier and this government are racist." He went on to say "my people . . . are beginning to talk about racism as being central to the policies coming from this Premier and his government,"
Having reflected on the speeches of both members and having examined the context of the words used by each of the two members, I am ruling that both members should withdraw their comments. It is my sense that all members of this House would prefer that a word with such negative connotations not be used in this House to describe either another individual or another individual's beliefs, policies or actions.
Therefore, I am now calling on the First Minister and ask that he withdraw his words which I quoted earlier.
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I accept your wise counsel and advice. I regret that I responded in kind to the comments that were made by the member opposite, and I withdraw my comments.
Madam Speaker: I thank the honourable First Minister.
I am now calling on the honourable member for The Pas and ask that he withdraw his words which I quoted earlier.
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): I have a lot of difficulty in doing what you are requesting me to do, but I do not want to be disrespectful to anybody, especially to your office, Madam Speaker.
I want to repeat, however, that I did not call the First Minister directly to his face a racist. I still maintain that I will continue to do my job here as an MLA for The Pas whose riding consists of over 50 percent of aboriginal people. I will continue to speak for them as well as other nonaboriginal constituents.
I withdraw those comments that I made.
Madam Speaker: I thank the honourable member for The Pas.
NONPOLITICAL STATEMENT
The Maples Youth Justice Association
Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples): May I have leave to make a nonpolitical statement?
Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for The Maples have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]
Mr. Kowalski: Madam Speaker, last night, I attended the annual general meeting of The Maples Youth Justice Association. This is a youth justice committee, under the direction of the Young Offenders Act, that administers alternative measures. I was there with the member for River Heights (Mr. Radcliffe), and we enjoyed the hamburgers and hot dogs provided.
An annual general meeting may not bear the good will of this House to make a nonpolitical statement, but what was noteworthy was that two members of that committee who have--
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for The Maples is attempting to make a nonpolitical statement, and I would appreciate the co-operation of all members of the House.
Mr. Kowalski: What was especially noteworthy at the meeting was that for two members who have been there since the beginning of the committee when it was started three years ago and were instrumental with the start-up, Alona Mercado and Tracy Sumka, it was their final meeting.
Tracy is withdrawing from the committee because of career responsibilities, and Alona Mercado will be attending law school at the University of Ottawa.
Tracy Sumka, members may remember, received the Premier's Volunteer Service Award last year as evidence of the recognition of the good work that she performs in The Maples community.
Both of these individuals grew up in The Maples. They are just two examples of the many wonderful young people we have in The Maples, and I wanted to draw the House's attention to their good efforts and acknowledge them. Thank you.