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Mr. Assistant Deputy Chairperson (Gerry McAlpine): Order, please. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. The committee will be resuming consideration of the Estimates for the Status of Women.
When the committee last sat, it had been considering item 1. Status of Women (a) Manitoba Women's Advisory Council (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits, on page 136.
Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Mr. Chairman, when the committee adjourned at six o'clock, I had been asking some questions about the executive director and what was happening with that position.
If I could just summarize it, I believe the minister told me that the position had been vacant since January 1, and there was now a process underway and within two weeks there would be an advertisement for the job, advertising the job of executive director. It was hoped that the process would be conducted expeditiously so that somebody may be in place for that position on August 1. Is that an accurate summary?
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister responsible for the Status of Women): Mr. Chair, yes, that is correct, as I understand it from the advisory council.
Ms. McGifford: I know too that the minister expressed, not concern but pointed out if the process were slowed down, for example, if somebody, I suppose, were hired who needed time to give a proper leave or resignation from another position, that would be allowed for.
Mrs. Vodrey: I am told that would be considered and allowed if that became the person who was the one for the job.
Ms. McGifford: I believe also the minister said that it was not unusual for a position like that of executive director to be vacant for the six months for which this job has been vacant.
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, I am told that throughout the civil service, that is a possibility.
Ms. McGifford: Could I ask why the executive director resigned?
Mrs. Vodrey: She moved away. She moved to another country with her family.
Ms. McGifford: I think I remember now the minister having told me that in the House. Let me back up. What exactly is the job description, and perhaps I should not say "exactly," but generally speaking, what are the executive director's duties?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told by the chairperson that the executive director has been responsible for staffing, for the financial issues relating to the budget and also has done some work as a policy analyst, particularly in relation to the social and the economic issues.
Ms. McGifford: Is that a general description, or is this what has been done recently?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that is a general description.
Ms. McGifford: Can I ask who is responsible for directing research in the office of the advisory council?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that direction is given by council and the executive director then oversees the fulfillment of that.
Ms. McGifford: So the executive director oversees the research in the advisory council. That is correct?
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, I am told that is correct.
Ms. McGifford: Mr. Chair, I would like to ask the minister, who has been doing the executive director's work in the basically six months that that position has been available?
Mrs. Vodrey: I am told those duties have been assumed by both the chairperson of the advisory council and also other duties by the analyst.
Ms. McGifford: Well, then, as far as the analyst is concerned, that must have made her a very busy person.
I am wondering in regard to the chair, I would like to know how the chair combines executive director's duties with the chair's official duties.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, the question was how does the executive director then assume those kinds of additional responsibilities?
Ms. McGifford: The question, Mr. Chair, was, it would seem to me that there is one set of responsibilities that are the chair's and one set that belong to the executive director, and I am wondering how the chair in her allocated time does both sets of duties.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, the chairperson has assumed those responsibilities by working some additional hours in order that they are fulfilled.
Ms. McGifford: Has the chair received remuneration for those additional duties?
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, and it was through operating per diems.
Ms. McGifford: I think I am left puzzled, because my understanding is that the advisory council was deemed to best work with an executive director and with a chair and that these two positions were distinct one from the other, and yet we understand that for six months, the duties have been more or less combined, and this seems to me passing strange.
Mrs. Vodrey: To say combined, the member would somehow assume that they were sort of compacted or squished into a single block of time.
There is a recognition of the desire to have a new executive director, but until that could be accomplished and in order to make sure that the advisory council continued to function in what we really believe is an efficient way--they are an energetic council; they are a council that I believe is working well with the women of Manitoba.
So the chairperson, until the time the executive director is hired then, has assumed some of the duties that might have been done by the executive director, but as I said, we are looking for a new executive director. The chairperson has been able to identify what that person might do, and the competition is in process.
Ms. McGifford: My understanding is that it had been identified, that there is a job description for the executive director so that the chair did not really need to identify what the executive director would or should do. But what I am curious about is, why did it take so long? Why did it take this long to make a decision to advertise for an executive director?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am not sure what the member is looking for, if she is looking for something underlying in the process. The questioning seems to lead me to think that may be the case, and I do not know how to answer her because that is simply not the case. The answer is that there is a process the chairperson gave in a general sense, which I replied to this evening, what the executive director might do.
The chairperson has identified what the executive director's duties would be. The process is ongoing. Somehow I have a feeling had things gone the other way, we had quickly rushed to fill the position, then the member would have said to me, well, what is the hurry? Why did you hurry and do that right away and not take a fair amount of time? So I am not sure, I mean, if there is something underlying that the member wants to identify, I wish she would do so because there is not an underlying issue or problem in this case. It is proceeding as it should, and we all look forward to the appointment of the executive director.
Ms. McGifford: I would ask, Mr. Chair, that the minister not impute motives to what I would have done if a set of circumstances that do not exist had indeed existed. That seems to me irrelevant to our conversation this evening.
My duty as a critic is to work for the full and equal participation of women in society in the province of Manitoba. What I am learning, and, I must admit, what I had learned earlier was that for six months one of the leadership positions in the minister's department had not been fulfilled. I do not think it is irrelevant or untoward to ask some questions about why it took six months to make a decision to advertise for that position. It could have been done in one, two, three, four. I am wondering why it took six.
* (2010)
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, well, I have given the member the answers. I have answered in the same way, I believe, three times. If there is something more that the member would like to know, perhaps she could be precise.
Ms. McGifford: I do not think that the minister really has answered my question as to why it took six months to advertise for this position.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, the answer may not be one that the member wants to hear, but nevertheless it is the answer. That is why I am asking her, is there something else that she is trying to uncover here that I do not believe is there? If she would give me the opportunity to say so, then I would be glad to do that.
I have told her from the beginning that this was a position which we are seeking to fill now, which was vacated when someone left the country. The chairperson of the advisory committee is determining the kinds of needs, if any, that may be different that she would require in an executive director if she is more comfortable now and/or as she gets to gets to know how the advisory council is functioning. With that in mind and through the process required by the civil service, we are in the process of filling that position.
I am sure as we get on in the process of these Estimates the member may ask me to identify further work that is being done, I will be happy to do that. I think that the record of this advisory council and the staff who support it is very good. In fact, I believe it is really genuinely very active, and I think, as she has told me she has spoken to the women's community across Manitoba, I am sure that is the feedback that she must be getting. Because I also have been acquainted with the advisory council for some time. I see this to be a very active one. So, if there is any--you know, frankly I do not know what additional information to provide for her.
As I am reminded, council is arm's length. When the request for the staffing was put forward, I signed it; I moved it along. That is the process. Now, if the member is suggesting that a minister should be more intimately involved with the advisory council, I think that makes it very difficult for the council to operate at arm's length. So I have given the answer, I think, now four times and I am struggling to find what additional information might be suitable to the member.
Ms. McGifford: Well, what I am asking, I think, is extremely simple, and I am sorry that the minister has difficulty in understanding my question. But my question is, why was the position not advertised three months ago? Why did it take six, for example? I do not think I have had an answer. Now I think, perhaps, the minister was telling me that it took this long for the chair to decide what work she felt needed to be done by the executive director, so that for six months a job description was being drawn up.
Mr. Assistant Deputy Chairperson: Just for clarification for the committee, I would just like to remind the committee that the minister has the right to answer the question the way she sees fit, and unfortunately that is the way it is as far as the committee is concerned. So I would just remind the committee of that, that the minister when she is asked a question, she can answer the question the way she wishes to answer it.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I think the member has grasped what I have been telling her in the last few answers, the last time that I have repeated the answers, and that is that to my knowledge the chairperson has taken time to look at the office structure, what is required to have people work together, and any changes that she might determine should be there in a job description for the executive director. I say any, if any. But it is appropriate that she take some time to consider this.
I am certainly supportive of filling the position, and as I have told the member, we are well on the way to doing that. I do not know that there is anything further I can add to her information regarding the filling of this position. As I said, do not let me impute motives to her--one might, another person might say if it was filled within a month or two that somehow we had hurried up and rushed to fill it and had somehow tried to, you know, short-circuit the process. Now we hear the argument on the other side.
So all I am trying to assure her through this quite long process of speaking about the filling of the position of the executive director is that we are doing so according to the civil service. We expect it to be filled as soon as possible. I am told that the advisory council would like to see it filled by the beginning of August. However, I am also told that depending on the number of applications or, as the member herself has identified, maybe someone has to get out of a contract if they are the successful applicant. It will be filled as soon as possible.
Ms. McGifford: Well, I am very happy to hear that, and I am sure that it will be a very sought-after position because it certainly is an important position, and the role I think of executive director is an important leadership position for the women in Manitoba.
The minister has said, and I have always understood this, that is that the advisory council is at an arm's length branch of her ministry--is at arm's length from government. Now, earlier the minister said that the advisory council employees are not employees of government. Perhaps I misunderstood then. Could I have a bit of clarification here?
Mrs. Vodrey: The employees of the advisory council are employees of government. It is the council members who are not direct employees of government. They are paid a per diem; that is how the arm's length nature is established.
Ms. McGifford: Then the position of executive director, policy analyst and office persons are government positions, but the chair and the council itself are appointed positions.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, those employees of the advisory council are civil service employees for the purposes of payment but they do not report to me directly as minister. They report to the advisory council.
Ms. McGifford: I need to have my memory refreshed. I think the minister told me that the chair's salary came from personnel services.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, from operating.
Ms. McGifford: Could the minister tell me what the chair's salary is, please?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, it is by per diem. It is $82 a half day and $152 a full day.
Ms. McGifford: May I ask if there is a set number of days or half days that the chair works?
* (2020)
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, it is by an allotment, and the amount that is budgeted for the chair is $22,220.
Ms. McGifford: I would like to ask some questions about, well actually not some, just a question about indirect salary costs and ask what those are.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that number is for vacation pay.
Ms. McGifford: May I ask why there is such a decrease between '94-95 and '95-96?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that vacation pay is tied to seniority in the salary of individuals filling that position, so in this case, this is what is projected for the individuals who are currently in that position.
Ms. McGifford: I am wondering also about the quite large decrease in Supplies and Services. Has that anything to do with rent, or may I ask which is the budget line for rent?
Mrs. Vodrey: I am told that this 4.9 reduction is for rent.
Ms. McGifford: And I understand the advisory council along with the Women's Directorate changed offices, and that was some time ago and it is cheaper. Is that it?
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, that move took place May 1, '94, and the rent is less expensive.
Ms. McGifford: I would like to ask some questions about the council members themselves. May I ask, please, how many council members there are and how many there is allowed to be.
Mrs. Vodrey: The number of council members at the moment is 16, including the chairperson, and I am told that the total number possible is 18.
Ms. McGifford: I am wondering what the general guidelines are as far as selecting council members.
Mrs. Vodrey: Things that are looked at are, first of all, some geographical representation, that we have women who are available to act on the advisory committee from different parts of Manitoba, rural and urban Manitoba, northern Manitoba.
In addition, we also look for women who were involved in different professional activities, different sectors, as well as some women who may not be currently involved in the workforce.
So we are looking at women who represent what we believe to be the experience of women across the province of Manitoba.
Ms. McGifford: How many members from the North are there on the council and where are they from?
Mrs. Vodrey: I am told two from the Thompson area, one from Russell, and then as we move a little bit closer into southern central Manitoba, one from Brandon, two from Portage la Prairie.
Ms. McGifford: Are there any aboriginal women on the council?
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, I am told two, Anita Campbell and Gladys Cook.
Ms. McGifford: Is the minister satisfied that there is a sound mix of council members, or to rephrase my question, is the minister satisfied that the council accurately represents the mosaic of women in the province of Manitoba?
Mrs. Vodrey: I believe that it is a good mix. It is a good mix because not only are the women representative from around the province and from different groups around the province, but I believe that they are women connected within different groups around the province.
Some are from education, some are from health, some are from post-secondary education, and these women operate in circles of influence around the province, and so I do believe that they bring a very good representation of women from around the province.
Ms. McGifford: How long do council members serve?
Mrs. Vodrey: Council members are appointed for two years.
Ms. McGifford: Are the council positions paid positions?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, the per diem is $50 for a half day and $87 for a whole day or anything over three and a half hours.
Ms. McGifford: May I ask how frequently the council meets?
Mrs. Vodrey: Council meets six times a year.
Ms. McGifford: Are those meetings generally a half day or a day in duration?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told three meetings are a day and a half long, and three meetings are a day long.
Ms. McGifford: Where do the meetings take place?
Mrs. Vodrey: I am told that the meetings take place in the boardroom, but there has also been one meeting in Gimli, in the Interlake region.
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Ms. McGifford: I am wondering if the advisory council has ever considered meeting at various places in the province. While I suppose the council has met in a couple of different places, I was thinking of moving from the north to the south and rural and urban.
Mrs. Vodrey: I am told that the council has a meeting in November scheduled in Thompson, and they are looking to schedule another meeting in southern Manitoba, perhaps southwestern Manitoba around Morden, but they have not been specific about that place at the moment.
Ms. McGifford: I am interested in the process or exactly--or maybe I should not say "exactly"--what happens at the council meetings themselves. My first question is, how is the agenda established for the meetings?
Mrs. Vodrey: I am told that the agenda is set by issues which are brought forward by council members including the chair, and that the agenda is approved at each meeting.
Ms. McGifford: So that one meeting is, I guess--towards the termination of one meeting, the agenda for the next meeting would be set by council members bringing forth the issues that council members wish to discuss at the next meeting. Is that basically the way it works?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, yes, that is one way, in addition to other issues which may arise in between. I am told that the advisory council has also done a strategic plan in which they have identified certain issues of importance to the council where they have agreed upon certain topic areas, and those are also included in the agenda.
Ms. McGifford: Could the minister comment on that strategic plan, such as what are the identified issues for the forthcoming year?
Mrs. Vodrey: The areas are education and training, women in politics, boards and commissions to encourage and facilitate the participation of women on decision-making boards and commissions, women and health, immigration, to be informed of changes in immigration policies and to determine their effect on the status of women, social policy review, the issue of violence against women and, also, the fourth world conference on women in Beijing, and they have assisted the NGO group in that area.
Ms. McGifford: I am wondering if a member of the general public, a woman of the general public was interested in having an issue discussed at the advisory council, if there is a process or a way of that happening.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that letters are received by the advisory council, and those letters and their issues are raised on a regular basis at the advisory council meetings.
Ms. McGifford: So there is some back-and-forth communication between the public and the advisory council. My understanding is then, there is room for women from the broad community to feed their concerns to members of the advisory council, who, in turn, would raise those issues at the advisory council.
Mrs. Vodrey: I am told that representatives of groups have written to the advisory council to have their issues raised. Individual women have also written letters to have their particular concerns raised, and also some individuals, as well as representatives of the community, have made presentations to the advisory council.
Ms. McGifford: Is anyone from the advisory council going to attend the Beijing conference?
Mrs. Vodrey: No, I am told they will not have a representative there.
Ms. McGifford: I am also interested in the process of advising government. I read that one of the activities of the council is to advise the Manitoba government on matters of concern to women, and I am interested in the method by which--how does this happen? How does this process work?
Mrs. Vodrey: First of all, as minister, I receive the minutes of the meetings. Then, also, I do have meetings with the chair on request, and I have also had the advisory council in to make sure that that two-way process is facilitated.
The advisory council also has made representation to departments. By way of example, they had representation on the consultation process for the maintenance enforcement bill.
Ms. McGifford: Then there are two ways that the advisory council advises government. One is directly by meeting with the representatives from a department and the other one is through the minister.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, that would be correct. I had not thought of them as direct or indirect, but in fact, I suppose they could be categorized that way in terms of direct work through departments and also by making sure the minister receives advice which then can be useful in terms of decision making.
Ms. McGifford: That was just a way of clarifying it for myself. Can I ask, please, which departments the council has directly consulted with this year?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I have spoken about direct then to the Department of Justice. I am not sure if the member would call this direct or not. Family Services did consultation on their single-parent initiative and the advisory council took part in those. They have also taken part in consultations by the federal government, making presentations as well regarding the social services reform.
Ms. McGifford: I am curious about how it works. If the chair, for example, has met with the advisory council and the council has decided that there are certain issues on which it wishes to advise the government, does the chair then phone up the Minister of Family Services, for example, and say, hey, I have got some good ideas for you? How does that work? I guess what I am asking is, does the chair take the initiative or does the chair wait to be called?
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Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told the process is by way of letter to that minister, though I would receive a copy of that as Minister for the Status of Women to be aware that the advisory council was interested in dealing with an issue and relating to certain ministers.
Ms. McGifford: So the chair would send an unsolicited letter to the Minister of Family Services and at the same time send a copy of that to the minister.
Mrs. Vodrey: That is right, and I am sorry. On my last answer I forgot to tell the member that yes, these are unsolicited. These are issues which have been generated by work of the advisory council which then they follow up with government. So it is not a matter of them waiting to be invited by a minister, though, I suppose, ministers may also do that, but this is a proactive approach.
Ms. McGifford: My understanding then is that the advisory council has this year, for example, consulted or provided advice to Justice, Family Services, federal departments. I am wondering about some of the other ministries that the chair and the advisory council may have provided advice?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told they have intentions to contact two other ministers. I do not think I am able to tell you what that is. I would be preempting them to do so, but I gather there are issues which relate to Urban Affairs and Finance.
Ms. McGifford: Thank you for the answers to those questions.
I am also interested in groups that the advisory council consults with. I am not speaking about ministries here. I am talking about women's groups. I wonder if the minister could comment on groups in the community that the advisory council has worked with this year.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told the list is very, very extensive, and it is not put together on a single list that I can read to the member. I will give you some examples of the names that have been brought forward: the Provincial Council of Women, the Coalition for Education and Training, the Beijing group, LEAF. They have met with three different resource centres, the Women's Institute. Then they have regular contact with women's groups, where they provide the photocopying service, and also regular contact with groups of women where they provide the fax service as well.
Ms. McGifford: I wonder if I might have a copy of the list, not necessarily tonight.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am just checking for the staff. It is the extensive list of groups met with that the member is asking for. Yes, we can provide that to you.
Ms. McGifford: Can the minister tell me some of the concerns that women have brought up, or groups have brought up, in these consultations? It does not have to be in-depth, just generally speaking what people seem to have identified as the major issues.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I can give the member a list of some of the issues which have come up. Some of these have come up through presentations, others have come up through phone calls into the office on the kinds of community contact the advisory council has.
Requests for information and issues brought forward regarding child support, legal matters pertaining to separation and divorce, issues relating to Education and Training, employment, domestic violence, housing, funding, scholarships, student loans, how to enter politics, resume preparation, literature search, statistics on women, stalkings and pensions are among some of the issues that have been raised.
Ms. McGifford: That certainly is an interesting list, and it would seem from that list of items that there very well may be women in the community who phone the advisory council in search of direct service. I wonder what the advisory council does because I am almost certain that happens.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that this happens quite frequently. I am very happy to hear that because it does say that there is that community contact, and the advisory council is really women of the community. The advisory council staff have developed a base of information from which they are able to provide information to the person who is calling either to give them names of other groups they might contact or how to help them within government to make a contact to find out the information that they need.
Ms. McGifford: Who in the advisory council does that work?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that it has become somewhat of a shared responsibility based on some particular expertise of people who are involved. At the moment, it is shared primarily through the analyst and through the chairperson, and both have some special areas of expertise which they are able to offer.
Ms. McGifford: Thank you for the answers to those questions.
I am wondering what kind of outreach work the council does to ensure that the range of women's organizations and women present their issues to the council, or indeed, is that a possibility. Is it feasible for the council to do outreach work?
* (2050)
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that at every meeting there is a group or an individual who is invited to present on issues, things such as rural child care. The Gimli meeting was considered an outreach meeting. I am told that there were 20 groups that were invited. Four actually presented.
Ms. McGifford: I guess I am thinking of the fact that although I am sure that the advisory council makes very valiant efforts to be open and available, I am thinking of women whom we all know of who are truly so marginalized that the idea of writing a letter or attending a meeting or making a phone call is just not feasible or possible. I am wondering if there is any effort or any way of reaching the kind of group that I am sure the women present know I am talking about.
Mrs. Vodrey: I can only provide the member with the information that has come to me almost verbatim, that you would be surprised at the women who actually do pick up the phone and make that contact, that it truly is a very wide-ranging group of women who have used this as their particular entry point.
I know the member knows that women have to decide how it is that they are going to enter and get help, and, often it is not necessarily in the formal way that other people might, that often it is by phoning up and seeking information and through that, actually getting some other kinds of help they need. So I am told that in fact this really is effective, and I am very glad it has been that way too.
Ms. McGifford: We have been talking about the advice that the advisory council has provided to government and the meetings that the advisory council has had either directly or the influence that it might have had indirectly through the minister.
I guess I am wondering how often government follows the council's advice.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that with this advisory council as it is now, certainly they believe that they have been able to have influence to government in a number of areas. They believe one area is in the single-parent initiative. The second area is in the area of maintenance enforcement. The third area, they said the area of midwifery, they were very active in previously, though now that process is on its way. Also, they believe that they have been able to influence in the area of violence against women.
Ms. McGifford: I am not sure what the single-parent initiative is. Is this the Getting Started program or Taking Charge!?
Mrs. Vodrey: It is a program called Taking Charge! and my colleague the Minister of Family Services (Mrs. Mitchelson) is the lead minister in dealing with this project.
Ms. McGifford: The Taking Charge! program, I think we have discussed in the House on a few occasions lately, and am I right in understanding that in fact Taking Charge! has not got off the ground yet?
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, Taking Charge! is a co-operative effort between the federal government and the provincial government's Department of Family Services. They have made progress. There is a board that is appointed. They are in the process of hiring an executive director. I am told that they had in the range of 300 applications, and they hope to be up and running by August.
Ms. McGifford: This is the program, if I understand it correctly, that will be a kind of storefront program that will provide supports to single mothers on welfare and allow them to take training, et cetera, so that they may be employable.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am informed that it is a program that is taking a holistic approach. I have heard it referred to as she has mentioned, a storefront approach. The holistic approach is that it should take into account the continuum of needs on an individual basis so that as individuals present themselves, if they have the full continuum or range of needs being child care, education, training and job placement, that will be taken into account. If they only have some needs and maybe others, those will be taken into account.
Ms. McGifford: I understand too that the women in the community, women who may, indeed, take this program or maybe part of this program, had some influence in helping to shape it and provide guidance and direction. Do I have the correct program in mind?
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, I am told that there was consultation with women within the community to determine what they saw their needs were and how they felt they could best be dealt with.
Ms. McGifford: I am wondering about the library in the advisory council. I have a few questions about it; first of all, what the budget is for the library. Maybe we could start with that.
Mrs. Vodrey: I think I have the answer that the member is asking for. The library, itself, does not have specific dollars allocated to the upkeep of the library. However, there was a project which was set up, and it was to get the library onto a database and to set up the library.
Ms. McGifford: I was actually looking at one of the Expected Results which reads, to continue the development and maintenance of a reference library for use by students, women and the general public and government departments. I had assumed that would involve some money.
I also wondered if the library on an ongoing basis acquires new titles, one question. Second question, how well used the library is, if there are some stats available, and third question, how the library is advertised, so that people know it is there to be used, or if it is advertised.
* (2100)
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that the library does add new titles. I am told that actually, currently, it seems to have a set of titles or an availability that does not seem to be available in other places. So it seems to be very up to date. I am told there is a mailing list of about 2,000 who receive information, but, also, there is a great amount of word of mouth information, and there is the chair of Women's Studies who has spoken to her students about it, social work students, education students, human ecology students and with the Outreach program at the university, as well, it is receiving a great deal more attention and seems to be very well used.
Ms. McGifford: How does one get on the mailing list?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that people call in. They have seen publications, and they ask to go on the mailing list.
Ms. McGifford: Does the council keep any stats as to the number of people who use the library?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, no, I am told that they do not do that.
Ms. McGifford: Is it a lending library?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, no, it is a reference library, though I am told that people using materials are able to photocopy those materials at no cost.
Ms. McGifford: My last question about library is, who selects the publications that the library houses?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that, by and large, it is the chairperson and also the analyst who have a look at the possibilities and are aware of the needs and the requests that have come forward.
Ms. McGifford: I said it was my final question about libraries, and I have one more. Do the chair and the policy analyst review feminist periodicals or where do the titles come from?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that, first of all, information is received in the mail regarding publications. Secondly, I am told there is a good contact within the feminist community. They have in the past had publications that the feminist community has considered important and continue to do that.
Ms. McGifford: That was the last library question.
Can I ask the minister what she sees as the yet unresolved equality issues for women?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, this is a pretty broad question which I think deals with a number of issues. So I guess I would really start from the very beginning and reflect on some of the socialization issues which we have really been dealing with both from the advisory council side but also from the directorate side and as Ministers responsible for the Status of Women across Canada. We can talk a little bit about that project when we get into the directorate side, but it seems very clear that there has to be right from the very beginning a process of socialization that is equally encouraging to young women and that does not have young women treated differently either by family members or by people within groups of society or within the education system. I know that the Department of Education is certainly looking at all of the textbooks and curriculum that it has to try and make sure that it is looked at in terms of any gender bias.
Then there is, I guess, the more difficult issue of how do you give effect to a program within a classroom that deals with people's almost-unknown-to-them biases and that has to take place, I suppose, in the process of teacher training, as well as in the process of just general socialization.
When we look at the socialization issue, then we have to look at how young women form their hopes and their aspirations for themselves and what it is that they are looking for. I think that leads us to the very broad issue of economic security, how it is that women choose what they will study and have the courage to choose certain areas that in many cases may have been areas of nontraditional study for women and how women can, in fact, look at being in economically viable positions.
We have been really interested and concerned about those choices. That is what brought us to the Training for Tomorrow scholarship in terms of wanting to make sure that women would consider, and perhaps they just needed a nudge to consider, some of those areas of training which we know, according to labour market forecasts and actual hiring practices, lead people to jobs and good-paying jobs, but they needed somehow to be encouraged. Women have had to understand that when these opportunities are there, that they also can understand it applies to them.
I understand that we also have to look at the issue of power in women's lives, and I just want to go back to the education process for a moment, because within some of the programs within education now, some segments of them actually look at that issue in relation to women. It helps women to look at this not only in terms of their choice of careers, but it helps them to look at it in terms of their relationships, as well, and to recognize that imbalances of power within a relationship also lead to other kinds of difficulties. So what happens in those early years through the process of gender socialization will affect women, both in their economic security choices and also in the area of relationships.
Those are some of the major areas where I believe we are able to make a difference, as well.
Ms. McGifford: I think it is very interesting. I think Status of Women's groups are often caught between the devil and the deep blue sea and that we can work with the socialization of young girls and do work with young women to hopefully influence their attitudes, and on the other hand, one of the problems is the socialization of young men, and that work does not seem to be ongoing. I think that leaves women often in a very unfortunate position where they may have done their work, but that is only 50 percent of it.
I wonder if the advisory council has done work with teenage pregnancy.
Mrs. Vodrey: Within the Damsels in Distress conference, the issue of reproductive issues was looked at as one of the issues for consideration in that conference.
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Ms. McGifford: May I ask when the conference took place, please?
Mrs. Vodrey: November '93.
Ms. McGifford: Has there been any more recent work? Is there going to be any follow-up? Actually, I heard very positive things about the conference, and I wonder if there is going to be anything like it again. It seems like it was very successful, and some ongoing work of that kind might be really helpful for young women.
Mrs. Vodrey: I am told that much of the work has been advisory to people who have been putting on conferences or working in their own area.
One of the examples that was just raised to me was a conference that took place in St. James School Division. It was called a Teenology conference, and to my memory, it was in the spring or in March, and this was where young people came together to actually look at a number of the issues that were of importance to them.
I am also told that the advisory council has offered advice to individual teachers and has remained in touch with the ad hoc a cappella group.
Ms. McGifford: I wonder if the advisory council has considered taking a leadership role or consulting with the Minister of Education (Mrs. McIntosh) or the Minister responsible for the Status of Women on the developments in the Political Science department at the University of Manitoba.
Mrs. Vodrey: First of all, one of the council members is a dean of one of the faculties at the university, so we do have a connection through one of our members into the issues as they relate to the university, but the advisory council has also written letters.
I am told that a letter has been written to the selection committee for the new president, and they have been doing their best to continue to take sort of a positive and encouraging role around the role of women within the university.
Ms. McGifford: The minister said for the new president, and I am assuming that she meant for the new head of Political Studies.
Mrs. Vodrey: No, the new president of the University of Manitoba.
Ms. McGifford: Has the council considered writing to the Dean of Arts and expressing concern about the events, which it is very hard to get to the bottom of really, in Political Studies?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that through the president's advisory council there is an ongoing relationship. However, I am told also that a letter is being prepared.
Ms. McGifford: That letter to go to Dean Currie, the Dean of Arts.
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, that is correct.
Ms. McGifford: Mr. Chair, I am very glad to hear that a letter is going forth. I think it is a very disturbing situation for the women in Manitoba, and I think that many women and girls are unsure about entering that department and that real leadership is needed, so thank you.
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Mr. Chair, the minister indicated that the council has advised various government departments on issues important to women, and I would like to ask a few questions as it relates to rural women. Although there are issues that affect women right across the province, they do affect women in rural Manitoba differently than they do in urban centres.
(Mr. Mervin Tweed, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair)
We know that statistics tell us that women from rural Manitoba who end up in a divorce situation where there is farmland end up to be some of the poorest women in this province, and in fact farm women do have very little assets. So I am wondering whether the council has looked at these issues, particularly divorces and separations, pensions for rural women, and has been able to put anything together that offers supports for women in rural Manitoba.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told first of all that there are a number of calls from rural women which come into the advisory council because of the toll-free 800 number which brings the information in. I am also told that first of all we have rural members on the council, and two of those rural members are actively involved in farming, so they simply bring to council's discussion the perspective of rural women and rural women who really want their concerns considered within all of the issues that are being discussed.
I understand too that council had Lois Brockman attend, and she described her study on rural child care.
Ms. Wowchuk: The minister said rural child care. There are other issues as well, and one of them is child safety. We have heard of some terrifying accidents, and I want to ask whether the council has offered any advice to the Department of Agriculture or the Department of Health with respect to child safety and other issues--you said rural day care, that they had dealt with rural child care--and whether the council is at all involved with addressing the issue of child safety, or is that beyond the scope of the?
Mrs. Vodrey: I am told, to this point council has not met with any ministers on that particular issue, but it is a fairly new council with its new members. However, in just speaking with the council members who are here, they will happily take that information under advisement and get a sense from council about their level of how they might like to proceed with those issues.
Ms. Wowchuk: Another new initiative in rural Manitoba is the rural stress line, and that line is something that I think is very important. I would like to see that grow, as would many people in rural Manitoba, because for many people that is an access to services and I wonder whether the council had any input or has done any assessment on those services or whether they have had any input into development of that service.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told, no, the council did not have input into that service.
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Ms. Wowchuk: The other organization that represents women's issues in rural Manitoba is the Women's Institute, and I wonder if there is any connection or whether there are meetings to share ideas between the women's advisory committee and the Women's Institute.
Mrs. Vodrey: The Women's Institute was a partner in the Damsels in Distress conference, and I am told that there is an ongoing relationship between the advisory council and the Women's Institute.
Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Chair, I would encourage the council to make a special effort to address those concerns that face rural women because--I am not sure of the process of how they contact. They tell me that there is a toll-free line, but the women in rural Manitoba, particularly with the declining economy in the province and people leaving the province, farms becoming bigger and people carrying a bigger workload and not having as many people to communicate with, I think it is very important that we have these services, such as the rural stress line and I would encourage the council to look at the other issues, one of them that I mentioned earlier, daycare.
The minister says that council has addressed daycare but also the issue of farm safety and I am very much interested in expansion of the rural stress line. Those issues I would hope that the minister would encourage council to look at and just the different issues that affect farm families and affect farm women.
(Mr. Assistant Deputy Chairperson in the Chair)
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that one of the members of council has been consistently looking, particularly at that economic development side, at how to encourage women from rural Manitoba into the workforce, and that is a part of what happens on a regular basis, but I am sure the advisory council will consider the issues that have been brought forward by the member for Swan River and they will be passed on, I am sure, by the chairperson who is here this evening.
Ms. Wowchuk: One of the other areas I have a lot of interest in is, and my colleague for Osborne raised the issue of teenage pregnancies. The minister indicated that there were two aboriginal representatives on this council.
I represent a large number of aboriginal people, three reserves and several Northern Affairs communities. When I meet with people, there are a lot of young women who are pregnant, and a lot of young women who end up pregnant because they do not have the information they need. It also seems to be just like an escape to get out of poverty and without realizing what they are getting into, they are being tied down for many, many years trying to raise a child. They do not realize what they are getting into.
So I wonder whether the council does any work with aboriginal communities to ensure that they know what is available, and what kind of communication there is between council and the aboriginal community.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that a division of Marymound is a group called Roots and Wings. Roots and Wings is a group for young aboriginal women who are returning to independent living from a time when they have most recently had a baby. They have recently requested, I am told, 250 copies of the handbook, Parenting On Your Own, which I have been speaking about this afternoon and this evening as well.
Then, I guess since we are also speaking about issues of teenage pregnancy, there are a number of issues, as the member says, and it is really a complex issue. There are complex issues of personal self-esteem, of family relationships, of issues of belonging and all kinds of complex issues which are, I think, part of adolescent behaviour, as well as maybe complicated by other factors for young people. So, admittedly, it is a very complex issue.
The advisory council is very interested in it, as is the Minister responsible for the Status of Women and the Department of Education that really from the beginning is trying to address some of those issues of self-esteem within a number of the courses and curriculum, including the health curriculum that they are part of.
Ms. Wowchuk: If there was a community that was trying to grapple with this issue and was looking for some supports on how they could start dealing with some of the issues, and for example, if there was a group of young women who wanted to start looking at financial management and just getting control of their own affairs, if they made a call to the advisory council, what action would be taken by the council to address that particular concern if that kind of a call came in?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, well, obviously, in such a situation, I understand it is hypothetical, so it is obviously difficult hypothetically to answer exactly from every angle. But I would think, first of all, the advisory council has said that they certainly do a lot of referring, and, if the advisory council is the point of entry for a community trying to deal with an issue, then that would certainly be an entry which they would try to support.
They would have to support it by making sure that the community or the individuals or the group got to the right place, who could actually provide them with if it was direct service or whatever type of support is necessary. So that is certainly done, and we have spoken about that as one of the roles of the advisory council. I think it is important to say that, so we do not raise false hopes about what this advisory council can do, but, as I have said, when the advisory council becomes the point of entry, that is good, and they will do everything they can to deal with it.
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In addition to that, what they can do is, if it is a group, they might ask if that group or representatives of the group might like to make a presentation to the advisory council, because the more information the advisory council has about these issues and how they affect communities, then the better the advisory council may be at looking at what points they can advise government. That is the good part of the advisory council. The advisory council itself is so multidisciplinary that, when a group of individuals or a group of whatever kind approaches the council with a problem, there are people on that council who deal with a number of those issues.
We have a medical doctor who understands the medical side. We have educators who deal with education from the junior high, high school, college and university level. So we have a whole range of expertise which is already sitting there on the council, which is available, as well, to try and put their minds to the issues which might be raised by a community. So it is a two-pronged approach. One, they cannot do everything because they do not offer a program, but they can provide the direction and the referral. In addition, they do have the community expertise, and they are involved in other kinds of groups themselves as well which may then provide the information.
Ms. Wowchuk: Does the council have the ability or the resources to travel to do outreach work if they wanted to meet with a particular group of people other than having--the minister indicated that they have their council meetings, I believe she said, six times a year. But I am looking for other flexibility, whether there is room within the budget to do outreach, to travel to a particular area to hold meetings or to meet with people.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, as I said earlier, one meeting was held in the Gimli area. In November there will be a meeting in the Thompson area. There will also be one other meeting. I believe that will take place in southwestern Manitoba, it has been suggested, somewhere around Morden, though the area has not been specifically determined. So it certainly is possible for council to look at meeting outside the city of Winnipeg, and, through that, those meetings attempt to bring people from the catchment area in and make sure that they have the opportunity to present.
Ms. Wowchuk: What I am looking for is--the minister has indicated there are these scheduled meetings, and I am looking for whether or not there is flexibility where, if the council decided that they wanted to do a special project where they wanted to meet with some community outside the six meetings that are scheduled, whether they have flexibility in their budget that they can go out and address a particular issue.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that in the past there have been times when council has done that, and the midwifery issues were an example of that, where there was a group or some who did meet more regularly around that issue. So it is possible, but it is very hard for me to say right now, in response to a very hypothetical question around a hypothetical issue, exactly how they would approach it. But I am sure it would have consideration.
I can honestly say that this council is really making an effort to connect with Manitobans, and that does not take away from those before them, but this is the one I know the best, because I happen to be minister now. I can honestly say that I hear this council making sure that the community is there, is brought in and is able to bring forward issues, and as I said earlier, the good part is that this is such a multidisciplinary council. When those issues are brought forward they are heard from 16 different types of experience, you know, hear and filter the issues, and they have made an effort to also be out and around Manitoba. So I would say that if that problem was presented to them I am confident they would find a way to deal with it.
Ms. Wowchuk: I am pleased to hear that the council is working as well as they are and they are doing the outreach. Has the council looked at economic development in the North? Again, we have women who are wanting to diversify, and we have some very good skills up in the North, but these women have not had the opportunity to have the business development that they need. So I am wondering whether the council has looked at that, and what progress has it made in helping women in the North have some economic development?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, one of the council members, a woman whose name is Anita Campbell, a member of the council, works at the Thompson Friendship Centre, and I am told that she just knows the northern community very well and is extremely well connected within the community. So when the advisory council has received inquiries or requests, some questions from the North, I am told that they have referred a number of these women directly to one of their own council members in the North, because she knows the community so well and she is able to provide additional resources for those who are interested and who want it.
I am told that two of the members from the North, Anita Campbell and Annette Dreilich are both really interested in the economic development issues as well. They have not formally brought an issue or a package to council, I am told at this point; however, those issues are part of the framework or the frame of mind and background that they bring to the council.
Ms. Wowchuk: The minister indicated earlier that there were two vacancies on the council. I wonder when those vacancies will be filled and if the minister is looking for a particular skill or interest to bring to the council or why they have not been filled.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, they are not really vacancies. The act provides for naming up to 18 women, but it does not require that 18 women sit on the advisory council. So, in the naming of this council, I named 16, including the chair, and I believe that we do have a very good mix. I have left two open for the opportunity to fill those when in fact a special need is identified or an area is identified. Had I filled everything right away we would have had no option to do that. So at this point I now look to council for advice to say, here is where we need something in addition to help us do our work. I am certainly open to naming those additional members, but I want to make sure that it is what is needed now to do the work of council.
Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Chair, I just want to indicate that there was some comment made that I was putting down rural women. I want to state very clearly on the record that I think the women in rural Manitoba are very bright women and have played a very important role in the development of rural Manitoba and in no way am I putting them down. So I would just want to correct the member across the way who was implying that I was putting them down.
I think it is very important. Women have played a very important role. I think back to my own family. The role of women has also changed. When I think back to what my mother did and what my grandmother did, it was because of supports of women like that that I had the opportunity to be where I am today, but we also have to remember that women do face some difficulties and it is very important that we have those services there, not only for the women but for children as well. In some cases there are men who also need supports, but in this case statistics have shown that it is women who at most times need the support.
So I hope the council, when they are doing their work, will recognize that although rural women have the interests as urban women they have to be addressed in a different way because there are services that are lacking and we do need the supports for the women in rural Manitoba.
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Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, just in response to the member's comments, let the record show that she was not pointing to the Minister responsible for the Status of Women. I think that is really important to clarify. You know, nothing else need be said. Just in case there was ever any confusion on the record, I think that is important to say, because I will tell you, you certainly will get no argument from me in that regard about the importance of rural women.
In fact, I think most of us here can point to family members, certainly on my husband's side of the family, who are pioneers of Manitoba. His grandmother was a pioneer homesteader in Riverton, and so I certainly can point to women in our family who have taken the same incredible role and have made it possible for each and every one of us who are sitting here today to have the opportunities that we do.
It is always a danger to single out any one group, so I probably should not even do that other than to say, I guess one of my first opportunities as Minister responsible for the Status of Women was to attend the Farm Women's Conference. It was, I think, the first opportunity I had to really, as minister, get to meet and know a number of rural women, and every year I am just absolutely delighted in attending that conference. I just have said every time I have been there, the vibrancy among that group of women is just absolutely there to touch. It is just wonderful. I have since gone on to meet many other groups of women too, but I suppose that one, being the first one that I really came to know as a group, it really was a very important one. So the member certainly can believe that she has support from this minister regarding the importance of rural women, what they do, in all ways.
Ms. Wowchuk: The minister mentioned a particular group and a conference which is a very important conference. I do not know whether the advisory council has anything to do with the planning of that conference, but if they do I look forward to the next conference where there might be some real issues. Sometimes some of the topics of discussion--I feel in some of them there are some weaknesses in the topics of discussion, and I would like to see some of the speakers bring some real good discussion and information that will help rural women. When I was making my comments I was not referring to the minister who had indicated that I might be slighting farm women. I want to set that straight as well.
Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr. Chairman, I want to reflect for a minute on the discussion and the direction the discussion was heading for a while, and I became a bit concerned about that direction. I happen to know that in my previous life as head of the farm organization in the province, that one of the farm organizations, namely the Keystone Agricultural Producers, were probably the organization that brought forward the idea of setting up a crisis line in this province, and that of course took a number of years and debates, debating amongst the various farm groups and organizations.
Women's organizations especially became very actively involved in that debate, in the establishment of the crisis line. I am extremely pleased that eventually we have set up a crisis line. It is not only to reflect the needs of farm women or rural women or on farms or in various communities. It is also a great help for the male population in rural Manitoba specifically when you have a situation such as this spring when we had nothing but rain and rain and rain, and farmers and businessmen especially needed somebody to voice their frustrations to or concerns and sometimes ask for help, even if it just needed to have somebody to discuss their concerns with. So I think it serves a very useful purpose.
I also know that many of the women in rural Manitoba play an extremely important role in the management of the various family-owned businesses and farms which are large businesses these days, many of them multi, multimillion-dollar operations, and the women become very intricately involved in the management decisions and play very often a key role in the accounting end, the money-management end of the business. So the importance of the role of the women in especially rural Manitoba, many of the smaller communities, should never be underestimated. Many of the women are very, very bright women, very, very bright business people, and I certainly want to reflect that and have this committee reflect that view of women in society today, because I think very often in debates and comments such as this we underestimate the ability as a group, their ability to contribute to the economy of this province and society as a whole.
I think that we need to, much more aggressively, reflect on the needs of the business development side of the issue and debate instead of on the negative side, and I think we need to take a very positive approach to developmental initiatives reflecting financial needs of individuals, women as individuals, as individual business people and women as having the ability to access proper financing in the business world and all those kinds of things. I would hope that the committee on the Status of Women would reflect to a much greater degree in that area and very positively look at some of the things that need to be changed in some of our approaches that we have had in the past. I would commend the work that has been done so far and recommend that they take that direction in a very positive manner. Madam Minister, if you can support that and encourage it it would certainly be helpful to the female community in much of Manitoba, not only rural Manitoba.
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, just to end my colleague's very positive comments, I just wanted to pass on to members of the committee the advisory council tells me that they have given three nominations of rural farm women for the women entrepreneur of the year. So I think that is a real positive way in looking at some of the recognition that I think is absolutely due.
Ms. McGifford: The infinite variety of women, whether they be rural, urban, northern, southern, national or international, never fails to amaze me. So I am not surprised at all at the comments from the member for Emerson.
I wanted to just address a couple of things and that was to get back to something the minister had said earlier. I am sure that she is right about the efforts of council, and I am sure that the council works very hard and is very open and tries to include the community as much and as broadly as possible. I have really enjoyed the opportunity of talking with the minister about the council and learning about the workings of the council.
I have two quick questions about the council and the way it works. One of them is, when we were speaking earlier I did not ask a question that is of interest to me, and that is, what is the decision-making process within council?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told that an issue is brought forward, there is discussion and then substantive motions are made to make sure that this is recorded.
Ms. McGifford: I am interested in whether a vote is taken or whether the council works collectively.
Mrs. Vodrey: I am told that there is a vote on substantive issues.
Ms. McGifford: My other question is whether members of the council tend to have areas of expertise that they develop so that, for example, each person on the council may become--and I should put it in quotation marks I guess--the "expert" on a certain aspect of women's activities or those times in the lives of women in Manitoba, that sort of thing?
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Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told, yes, that would partly be by interest developed on the council, but it would also be by virtue of the background that a number of the women bring. As I have explained, we have women with medical backgrounds, education backgrounds, education at the post-secondary level, that being college and university, women who are homemakers, women who are involved in northern businesses, farm businesses. So it is really, I think, a very good mix of women.
Ms. McGifford: So women bring a certain knowledge with them and then there is flexibility within their role in the council to follow their own interests and become the kind of member that complements the council and that they wish to be?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, I am told first of all, yes, there is recognition for special talents and special interests, but in addition I am told that it is important that they become knowledgeable about a wide range of issues. So there have been guest speakers who have been brought in, or at various times some members of council have in fact done presentations for council themselves.
Ms. McGifford: So the council encourages the renaissance women approach?
Mrs. Vodrey: I am told, yes.
Ms. McGifford: Mr. Chair, I have no more questions on 22.1(a).
Mr. Assistant Deputy Chairperson: Item 1. Status of Women (a) Manitoba Women's Advisory Council (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $175,500--pass; (2) Other Expenditures $110,300--pass.
1.(b) Women's Directorate (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $485,400.
Ms. McGifford: Mr. Chair, I have some questions about the Women's Directorate. I am, first of all, interested in the Salaries and Employee Benefits and if we could start with the managerial position. I understand that is the assistant deputy minister's position.
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, that is correct.
Ms. McGifford: How long has the ADM been in that position?
Mrs. Vodrey: Four years.
Ms. McGifford: Could I ask the minister what the basic duties of that position are?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, it has responsibility for the budget process, the planning process, the supervision of staff and the setting of priorities.
Ms. McGifford: Does the ADM meet with the minister regularly?
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes.
Ms. McGifford: Could I ask how frequently, please?
Mrs. Vodrey: Once a week on a regular basis.
Ms. McGifford: My next question is in regard to the professional/technical positions. I gather that six staff years implies that there are six positions.
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, that is correct.
Ms. McGifford: I asked that question because I did not know whether there were 12 part-time people or six full-time people, so I take it that there are six people who work full time.
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, Mr. Chair, it is six full-time people.
Ms. McGifford: Could I have some details about their positions, the kind of work they do, what their titles are?
Mrs. Vodrey: We have two what are considered managers, the manager of policy and the manager of outreach, and then we have three policy analysts. That makes five. Now, the sixth position the member asked, is it six full time? I correct myself. I beg your pardon, the sixth position is in fact two half-time positions, outreach workers.
Ms. McGifford: I would like to come back later and ask some questions about the outreach work, but right now, could the minister explain to me the indirect salary costs?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, these relate to vacation benefits, as they did in the advisory council.
Ms. McGifford: I am also interested in the scholarships, that the Women's Directorate, in fact, gives away awards. I wonder if I could have some details about the scholarship--exactly where the money comes from; is there a list of the winners; are there any special criteria. I guess I would like to add at this point that I think these scholarships are very commendable.
Mrs. Vodrey: The scholarship is contained in a budget line under Other Expenses, and it is listed, Scholarships. It is the last line before Total Grants.
The qualifications for that are that individuals meet an academic qualification, that they have been accepted into one of the programs that are approved. The programs that are approved have been put forward by the community colleges.
They have worked with the labour market forecasters to look at what are jobs in a technical area where women have previously not applied, the nontraditional areas where employment is very likely.
They submit then an approved list of course areas. Women then who have been accepted into those course areas and who have the academic qualification and who have also written an essay--and that is the other part, that women have been required to write an essay.
Ms. McGifford: Writing the essay seems to me very important, so we get women who are skillful not only in science but as writers, which is a very important combination.
I asked if there was a list of winners available.
Mrs. Vodrey: We do not have it with us at the moment, but we can certainly provide it.
Ms. McGifford: I am wondering if there is a reason why the scholarships are being awarded to women who attend community colleges and not women who attend other forms of post-secondary education.
Mrs. Vodrey: Well, there are some scholarships available for women at the university level targeted to women. I am thinking particularly of engineering, and I think there are some scholarships for women in other science targeted areas. This is in keeping with the Roblin commission recommendations.
Ms. McGifford: Will these scholarships be awarded on an ongoing basis, or is it one shot only?
Mrs. Vodrey: Yearly, Mr. Chair.
Ms. McGifford: Well, that is certainly encouraging. I am very happy to read about that and hear about it.
The last annual general report from the Women's Directorate that I was able to obtain was the '92-93 annual general report, and I wonder if the directorate is intending to do a '93-94, if it is in the planning stages, or what is happening with that.
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Mrs. Vodrey: I am told it is at the printer.
Ms. McGifford: So I am assuming then it will be available, well, as soon as it is printed.
I am wondering if the directorate has a mailing list.
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes.
Ms. McGifford: How does a woman get on the mailing list?
Mrs. Vodrey: She phones, she can drop a line, or through the newsletter, there is a contact number.
Ms. McGifford: Is it the major publication that the directorate mails out about women?
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes.
Ms. McGifford: Are there any other publications?
Mrs. Vodrey: There is usually a mail-out to high schools for Women's History Month.
Ms. McGifford: Do women ever write in, in response to About Women? I guess I was wondering about the idea of an editorial page or something like that, if it had ever been entertained or if it is just simply not feasible.
Mrs. Vodrey: I am told it is not really that feasible because it is not really all that timely. The publication is twice a year.
Ms. McGifford: The toll-free women's line, I wonder how many women use it, if there are any statistics on that?
Mrs. Vodrey: I am told that calls range about half a dozen or so a week.
Ms. McGifford: Thank you for that.
One of my other questions was about the Outreach program, and I wonder if I could have some details about the Outreach program, what that program does, who it reaches out to and what its mission is, that sort of thing.
Mrs. Vodrey: I do have some fairly extensive information on that I would be more than happy to provide to the member. I can do that by letter, if that is helpful.
Ms. McGifford: I would certainly appreciate a letter and more information about that program. I am certainly a supporter of outreach. I think that it works very well with women, and it is a very fine way of including women in various groups and certainly in the Women's Directorate.
One of the things that I read is that the Women's Directorate does work to promote the celebration of women's achievements through such events such as national Women's History Month and International Women's Day. I wonder if I could have some details about what was done for both of those occasions.
Mrs. Vodrey: Well, as an example, we partnered with Eaton's, and we had eight storefront windows. We also had eight women in the store to speak extensively. There were opportunities for a lecture series or an informal opportunity to speak, and these women acted as role models.
Ms. McGifford: Were these women from the directorate?
Mrs. Vodrey: No, women from the community. For instance, Mayor Thompson was one.
Ms. McGifford: So the directorate created relationships, partnerships with women in the community, politicians, for example, who, in turn, participated in the Women's History Month and participated in, I suppose, celebrating women in history in this way.
Mrs. Vodrey: Yes, that is correct.
Ms. McGifford: And International Women's Day?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, looking at International Women's Day, we have hosted luncheons in Thompson, Portage and Winnipeg. We also have had speakers on International Women's Day.
Ms. McGifford: Does the Women's Directorate have a speaking bureau?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, yes.
Ms. McGifford: I am assuming the speaker's bureau may be called by the public school system, for example, or whatever, and that women from within the directorate go out and participate in community education?
Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Chair, the directorate does sometimes provide the speakers. They act as speakers themselves, but because there are so many requests, they partner with the community and try and arrange community speakers who are available too.
Ms. McGifford: I would like to thank the minister and her staff for very patiently answering all our questions tonight. I have no more questions.
Mr. Assistant Deputy Chairperson: Item 1.(b) Women's Directorate (1) Salaries and Employee Benefits $485,400--pass; (2) Other Expenditures $99,100--pass; (3) Grants $54,000--pass.
Resolution 22.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $924,300 for Status of Women for the fiscal year ending the 31st day of March, 1996.
This completes the Estimates of the Status of Women.