ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

Winnipeg Jets/Arena

MEC Proposal

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): I want to congratulate the former member for Rossmere being the first Conservative to admit about the $800-million-plus deficit. You were right.

My question is to the Acting Premier.

Madam Speaker, on June 23, 1995, in legislative committee I asked the Minister responsible for Infrastructure, Finance, Lotteries and the Jets a specific question on the forwarding of $10 million to the so-called private sector group, the MEC group, for the deposit for the hockey team to be purchased. On June 23 the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) took the question as notice. I note that on June 14 the Ministry of Finance issued a transfer of a cheque of $5 million as a so-called repayable advance to Thompson Dorfman Sweatman in trust for the Manitoba Entertainment Complex.

I would like to know from the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) why his Minister of Finance did not disclose at the committee that $5 million was forwarded by the government as part of the deposit and did not disclose that to the legislative committee that was meeting at the time.

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): If the Leader of the Opposition was putting all of the information on the record and reading his entire question from that day, I am sure he will recall, because we discussed it later, that he asked me about the advancing of the $10-million deposit and whether or not there were any elements of that which included money from the grassroots campaign, the campaign by CJOB, by the media outlets, by the banks and so on that raised approximately, I believe ultimately, some $12 million or $13 million.

I believe I indicated to him at the time that I did not think any of those funds had been utilized, but I would take the matter as notice. I ultimately informed him of that, and I am sure he can confirm that here today, that in fact in terms of the $10-million deposit, none of the proceeds used were drawn from the grassroots campaign. I would hope that he would put his entire question on the record. The question that he asked that day in Estimates, that was the question that he asked. I answered his question, and I would ask him to be comprehensive when he asks his question, Madam Speaker.

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Mr. Doer: I suppose there are sins of commission and there are sins of omission, Madam Speaker, and if the Minister of Finance feels it is appropriate not to inform the public at a legislative committee about the $5 million, I am truly disappointed and I think Manitobans should be.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I am certain the honourable Leader of the official opposition has a question.

Infrastructure Works Agreement

Entertainment Complex

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, under the so-called Canada-Manitoba Infrastructure Program Agreement, contracts that are awarded for the implementation of projects would be entered into with the relevant provisions of this agreement referenced. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance to table today the contract under the Canada-Manitoba Infrastructure Agreement that deals with all payments to the MEC group, the Spirit group dealing with the so-called infrastructure proposals and funds that will go from the people of Manitoba to--[interjection]

Well, if the Deputy Premier wants to answer the question. I asked him the first question. If he would like to answer it: I would like to ask the Deputy Premier to table the contract pursuant to the Canada-Manitoba Infrastructure Agreement.

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, besides his direct question, the Leader of the Opposition had a lengthy preamble and I think he seems to be suggesting to us that not only do we answer his questions directly, we speculate on what other questions he might want to be asking or thinking he should be asking and try to answer that. Talk about absolutely ridiculous. He asks a question, we answer his question, we provide him with that information.

In terms of the infrastructure agreement, as has been indicated, in fact, the same process he is referring to back on June 23, we discussed at length the infrastructure program. In fact, the member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) moved a motion deleting funding from the infrastructure program that we had indicated would be utilized for a new entertainment complex arena if one were to be built here in Manitoba.

So, again, in terms of the tone of questioning, we had a lengthy discussion back on June 23 about the utilization of the infrastructure program. It is a program that has to be agreed to by the federal government and the provincial government. We did agree that if a facility was going to be built, that is where we would draw some of our commitments from, certainly the first commitments, and that has been the basis of our advances to date.

In terms of any particular documentation, I will take that portion of his question as notice and pursue providing him with any additional documentation I can, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Finance referenced the Kenaston underpass project. I would like to table the program description and the contract between the federal government, the provincial government and the City of Winnipeg dealing with the Kenaston underpass project.

Will the Minister of Finance agree today to table a similar contract or agreement under the Canada-Manitoba Infrastructure program pursuant to the guidelines that the government released as the guidelines between the federal and provincial governments? Will the minister agree today to table in this House--you have it in your files--can you table in this House that proposal similar to the Kenaston underpass proposal so that we can see all the disbursements that are agreed upon between the government of Manitoba, the Government of Canada and the City of Winnipeg under an infrastructure program for an arena that was never built?

Mr. Stefanson: Firstly, Madam Speaker--and the Leader of the Opposition refers to them--they are guidelines and just that, guidelines utilized in terms of the program. At the end of the day, in terms of the utilization of the infrastructure program from the strategic pot of $84 million, those are decisions made by the federal government and the provincial government.

As I have indicated publicly and in this House, in terms of all of the funds utilized in terms of the development of a new entertainment complex arena from the federal government, from the provincial government, from the City of Winnipeg, from the private sector, it is our intention that all of that information will be made public and will be audited by an independent auditing firm here in Manitoba. It will also be audited by the Provincial Auditor and the city auditor, Madam Speaker, and as soon as all of that information is in and is compiled, we will make all of that information available.

We have indicated we believe it is in everybody's best interest to see all of that information, to see how the funds were utilized in terms of the facility design, in terms of the preconstruction activities, in terms of the marketing activities and so on.

But in terms of where we directed our funds from, we have made it perfectly clear throughout the whole process that if we funded a new entertainment complex it would come from the infrastructure agreement. I told the Leader of the Opposition that on June 23, 1995, and nothing has changed today. The advances that we have made towards that facility were made from that particular agreement.

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The Pas Health Complex

Funding

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Madam Speaker, my questions are directed to the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson).

I sit here day in and day out listening to the Minister of Health telling people, telling this House that everything is A-okay in the health care system.

Madam Speaker, The Pas Health Complex is facing a $1.3-million funding reduction for the next two years. The board has expressed its concern to the government in that those funding reductions were strictly fiscally targeted and had nothing to do with the so-called health care reform that this government embarked on three years ago and for which Connie Curran received $4 million to do. These reductions are strictly fiscally targeted.

What I would like to ask the minister is this: Why are these guidelines for those cuts in The Pas Health Complex based strictly on fiscal targets and not on the so-called reform plans that Connie Curran got a million dollars to do?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the changes that we foresee for The Pas Health Complex and other rural and northern facilities are in line with the staffing guidelines that we have taken a long period of time to develop and in consultation with health care providers in the facilities. An inordinately large representation on that review committee was from northern Manitoba.

Mr. Lathlin: Madam Speaker, given the fact that the North is always behind in terms of program funding and services and so on, could I ask the minister to advise the House how those 26 positions, what impact will it have on patient care at The Pas Health Complex and surrounding area?

Mr. McCrae: We expect, Madam Speaker, by those guidelines to see health care delivery in overstaffed areas equalized with care delivery delivered in what were previously understaffed.

What the honourable members opposite forget is that what we have here, in some cases, the guidelines in some facilities were not being adhered to, and the staffing levels rose above the requirements for health care in those places. So the guideline review resulted in a more equalized sort of treatment throughout the province.

Mr. Lathlin: Madam Speaker, since this government and The Pas Health Complex are at odds in terms of what is the level of funding reduction that should take place, will the minister agree to put the funding reduction on freeze and go back to negotiating with The Pas Health Complex?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, that is what we did in the fall of 1993.

We put on hold the requirement that hospitals adhere to the staffing guidelines. We undertook a year-and-a-half-long review of the staffing guidelines using the process that I referred to involving bedside nurses in the process, involving the Manitoba Association of Registered Nurses, the Manitoba Association of Licensed Practical Nurses, the College of Physicians and Surgeons, hospital administrators and caregivers at the hospitals, and as I said, representation from northern Manitoba was inordinately high on the staffing guidelines committee.

Health Care System

Role of Licensed Practical Nurses

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, LPN nurses have been completely eliminated at St. Boniface, heavily reduced at Health Sciences Centre and are in the process of being either eliminated or greatly reduced at Seven Oaks Hospital.

Can the minister explain how the elimination of front-line nurses, who provide the majority of patient care and have contact with the patient, can possibly improve the quality of health care in our hospitals?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I have been involved in numerous meetings regarding this particular issue. The licensed practical nurse is facing the same pressures as other nurses in some of our institutions.

Their services are very valued in many health applications, Madam Speaker, so much so that I am hearing complaints that facilities and others cannot find enough LPNs to get the job done.

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Seven Oaks Hospital

Health Care Aides

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, my supplementary to the minister: Is it government policy that the LPNs who are being eliminated specifically at Seven Oaks Hospital are going to be replaced by health care aides who will then provide that care, and what effect will that have on the quality of patient care?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Each institution, Madam Speaker, sets up its staffing mix based on the requirements of its patient load and its budget. There are applications where you will see more LPNs in some places than in other places. That is a fact of life in our health care system. It is a reality.

In some places, there is a higher level of LPNs than in other places. Certainly in long-term care there is a need for LPNs. The challenge here is, and the honourable member did not mention it, but the challenge is to ensure that we have enough LPNs in the marketplace to provide the services that are required.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, can the minister confirm what I have in writing in a letter from the vice-president of nursing at Seven Oaks Hospital that the LPNs who are being eliminated at Seven Oaks Hospital will have the opportunity to apply to be health care aides after they have taken a course at Red River Community College to qualify to be health care aides, to maybe have the possibility of working in the health care system that the minister says there are so many positions for LPNs in?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, the honourable member will understand that it depends upon where and what facilities and what functions are required to be carried out where the demand for LPN services is going to exist. The honourable member knows that.

Apprenticeship Training

Federal Funding

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, there are concerns on this side of the House that the federal government proposes to phase out its support for apprenticeship over the next few years.

I want to ask the Minister of Education to tell us whether she has been informed of this, and can she tell the House what the impact of this will be on the already declining numbers of young Manitobans in apprenticeship?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): I thank the member for her question and her interest in this particular topic.

I have not received information from the federal government in terms of specifics on details on many items that I would like to have more detail on. The major overriding concern, of course, for those of us involved in education is the impending impact of the cut in transfer payments which will impact everything that we do.

We have been working very hard in the department and in collaboration with those federal officials with whom we interact on a daily basis to make apprenticeship more relevant and to enhance opportunities for journeyman training and so on.

Ms. Friesen: Can the same minister confirm that developing federal policies on training will require the province to take greater responsibility for young people new to the labour market, women returning to the labour market and new immigrants, exactly the same people, Madam Speaker, who have been seriously hurt by this government's cuts to Access, New Careers, youth programs and Student Social Allowances?

Mrs. McIntosh: I have to indicate in terms of Access that we have more students enrolled now than before, so the take-up on that has not decreased, has increased, because we believe it is a good program and so do the students who enroll in it.

In terms of the dealings with apprenticeships, new apprenticeship registrations have increased by about 35 percent in the past fiscal year. In large part, that has to do with continuing emphasis in our department on preparation skills for the marketplace in community colleges and through apprenticeships, workforce training and so on.

Ms. Friesen: Would the minister undertake to be in contact immediately with the federal government to bring to the House the details on this withdrawal of support for apprenticeship and underline to the federal government that this is in fact flying in the face of the very means to post-secondary educational success that every one of our international competitors has?

Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, we on a regular basis communicate our concerns on these types of items to the federal government. We have also had discussions on these types of items with the Council of Ministers of Education of Canada meeting which was just recently attended last week in the Yukon where all ministers across the nation expressed concern about federal offloading, federal cutbacks in terms of post-secondary education in particular as it affected our particular jurisdictions.

We are committed to working together with other ministries to ensure that the federal government lives up to its responsibilities in the terms of education and training component. I thank the member for her support on that issue.

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St. Germain-Vermette

Secession

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Urban Affairs.

There has been a lack of good will from the provincial government to work with the City of Winnipeg in co-operation in trying to resolve the whole issue of areas of the city that are looking at secession. In fact, in the most recent edition of the Manitoba Taxpayers Association, I would quote the minister where he has said that he will allow taxpayers in south Winnipeg, in sections of St. Germain and Vermette to vote on secession, as Headingley did last year, and he will abide by their wishes.

My question to the minister is, has he set a date for a referendum to allow these two communities to secede from the city of Winnipeg and, if not, what are this government's intentions on this particular issue?

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Urban Affairs): I would like to point out to the member for Inkster that the procedures and the chain of events that are unfolding regarding the St. Germain-Vermette situation are identical to what was happening in the position that Headingley put itself through a few years ago. The one thing that has come about even to a more thorough position regarding St. Germain-Vermette was the fact that every resident in that area was given a copy of the study.

The study was there for them to peruse, to look at the consequences of secession, amalgamation with the municipality of Rosser, I believe it is, or staying within the city. Those are the parameters that the residents of the area are looking at now. To the best of my knowledge, they have not had a public meeting to discuss this. They have not come back to this office or to me in regard to what their preference is or what direction they would like to take, so at this time it is hypothetical whether there will be a vote or whether there will be secession or whether there will be amalgamation, because nothing has come back to this office regarding their wishes.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I would ask the minister, does the minister or his department have any time schedule when they would anticipate that a referendum will in fact be allowed? We do know that the minister has been having some meetings with both the municipality that is adjacent to it and no doubt some of the residents in the community.

Does he have in his mind or does the department have any idea when there is going to be a referendum in this area?

Mr. Reimer: Madam Speaker, I have to remind the member that that is a hypothetical question because he is anticipating that something possibly could happen or the direction that may be taken. To anticipate whether there is going to be a vote or when or anything like that, I just cannot speculate that way as to what he is asking.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, as the minister said and I would ask, his commitment was that he will abide by the wishes of these two particular communities.

Is the Minister of Urban Affairs trying to say to any community in the municipality of Winnipeg that if they so choose, that they feel it is in their best interests to secede and leave Winnipeg for whatever reasons, that this particular government will abide by their wishes, whether it is St. Boniface, St. Vital, Meadows West--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. Reimer: Madam Speaker, I was not sure whether you were ruling whether that was a hypothetical question or not because in my expectations that was another hypothetical situation that really cannot be answered until the situation is presented. Once the situations are presented, there is an evaluation of the procedures, decisions are made and then it becomes a direction. Until that time, everything is hypothetical.

Social Assistance

Food Allowance

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, Manitoba has the most disgraceful record on child poverty of any province in Canada, 10 out of 10, the worst record in Canada, and this can be directly attributed to the cutbacks of this government. Sister Lesley Sacouman, the co-director of Rossbrook House, says that poverty is structural violence.

In view of the fact that structural violence is increasing in Manitoba and that one out of 11 people in the city of Winnipeg are on welfare, how can this minister justify cutting back the food allowance for children on city social assistance?

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Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Madam Speaker, I thank my honourable friend for that question because it does allow me to speak a bit to what we had some discussion on in the Estimates process.

I think we have to put things into perspective when we look at the issue of child poverty and the definition of child poverty because, Madam Speaker, if in fact the numbers that were developed by Statistics Canada today were available in the days when I was growing up, I would have been considered a child living in poverty. I want to say to you that I do not consider that I lived in poverty. I was loved, I was cared for and I was nurtured, even though we did not have the financial means to be above any specific income level.

I think we have to look at what true child poverty means. In my mind and I think in the minds of many Manitobans, it is those children who live below the poverty line but are also neglected and abused and not properly nourished, and those are the children whom we have to focus on as government to ensure that they have the ability to thrive and flourish.

Mr. Martindale: Will the minister comment on the context of the election campaign where the Filmon Vision, the Manitoba Strong document, promised a number of things including implementing recommendations on the health of Manitoba's children, one of which recommendation was to increase the food allowance for children on social assistance?

Why is she cutting the rate of food for children on social assistance, contrary to their election promise?

Mrs. Mitchelson: Again, I thank my honourable friend for that question, because we did make a commitment, a very strong commitment to children and families during the election campaign, and we continue to work very aggressively on those commitments that we made.

Madam Speaker, we are not in the situation where we are today overnight, and we are not going to get out of that situation overnight. It is going to take a lot of thought and energy and co-ordination of effort and resources to ensure that we move forward in a new direction with a new reality.

We are not the only province that is looking at changes in the way we support families and children. At the ministers of social services annual meeting last week here in Winnipeg, provinces of all political stripes are struggling with this specific issue, and we have indicated that we are going to work together in a very unified way to share information and to share ideas on how, in fact, we can change our focus and the dollars that we spend to put money into early intervention, early child development and nutrition, and, Madam Speaker, those things will be happening, and as we move in that new direction, I will share all of that information with my honourable friend.

Mr. Martindale: Madam Speaker, this election promise is worthless.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would remind the honourable member for Burrows, this is not a time for a demonstration. This is a time to pose a final supplementary question. Final supplementary questions are to have no preamble, no midamble nor postamble.

The honourable member for Burrows, to pose his question now.

Mr. Martindale: My question, Madam Speaker, is, what is the Minister of Family Services going to eliminate from the allowance for children on city welfare, since it is based on a market basket of groceries. Is she going to eliminate lunch or supper or protein or milk? What is she going to eliminate from this food allowance?

Mrs. Mitchelson: There seems to be a disease on the opposite side of the House today in asking hypothetical questions and wanting answers to decisions that have never been made or have never been articulated.

Indeed, I indicated last week that there would be standard rates for social allowances when the City of Winnipeg is amalgamated with the Province of Manitoba in a one-tiered system, Madam Speaker. There was no mention of what those rates might be. As we move towards that process, the rate will be set, and it is set on a yearly basis for families and for children.

Public Housing

Property Tax Credit

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Statistics show that 56 percent of families and seniors living in public housing have incomes of less than $10,000 a year. These are the same low-income families that are having their cupboards raided by this government in changing the food allowance for people on social allowance.

I want to ask the Minister of Housing if he can confirm that last year, by including the property tax credit for these people renting in public housing, the same property tax credit that was used to buy eyeglasses, hearing aids, home care supplies, that it netted over $300,000 for this government. Can he confirm that? I asked the question in Estimates, can he confirm it for the House today that this has been a tax grab--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Housing): I believe what the member is referring to is something that was allowable in the sense that the people, if there was an objection to the issuance of the taxed rent, there was an appeal process put in. Their situations were analyzed. In fact, I believe they are still going under an appeal process for any type of hardship that was realized by these people.

There was a realization that if there was a need, it was recognized. There was an appeal process so the people were able to come back to this government for recognition.

Ms. Cerilli: The minister has not answered the question.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Ms. Cerilli: The grab by this government on low-income Manitobans, $300,000 or more--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Radisson, with a supplementary question.

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Ms. Cerilli: Can the minister answer the question that I asked in Estimates? Has the government netted $300,000 or more from low-income tenants in public housing by adding their property tax credit into their rent geared to income?

Would they not admit this is balancing the budget on the backs of those least able to pay?

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would remind the honourable member for Radisson that a supplementary question is to consist of one succinctly worded sentence. One question.

Mr. Reimer: No, it was not a tax grab.

Ms. Cerilli: I would ask the same minister, can he tell the House how much money has been collected by adding this property tax credit into the rent geared for income and if that money is at least going to stay in public housing going to repairs and maintenance? Can the minister answer that question for the House?

Mr. Reimer: Madam Speaker, let it not be said that this government does not have a commitment to the maintenance and improvement of public housing. If we are looking at the expenditure of what this government--as of March 31, 1995, total expenditures are well over $113 million towards maintenance and improvement of this. The commitment, the conscious decisions towards maintenance and improvement in social housing in Manitoba has been recognized and consistent with this government and will continue to be of a priority.

Infrastructure Works Agreement

Entertainment Complex

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, the Minister of Finance has confirmed finally, although he did not see fit to put out a press release on the issue congratulating the government on infrastructure grants for the Winnipeg Jets, he has apparently confirmed that the $3 million of total grants that were to be made pursuant to the meetings in January were flowed during the spring and early summer period.

Will the minister then confirm that an agreement does exist that he will table very shortly in this House, since under the infrastructure agreement such agreements must be completed before the project is entered into?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Well, Madam Speaker, the member for Crescentwood seems to be functioning from a selective memory because he, I believe, participated in some of the discussion during Estimates of the infrastructure program and other initiatives that fall under my areas of responsibility. The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) was certainly there. The member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton) was there, and we discussed that any funding that we would be providing towards a new entertainment complex, new arena, that the initial allocation would come from the infrastructure program. We said, out of this year's budget of some $34 million, approximately $11 million was available to be utilized for an entertainment complex.

In fact, they opposed trying to find a solution so much that they introduced a motion to remove that allocation from the infrastructure program. It was moved by the member for Thompson. We came back in this Chamber, and we defeated that motion.

That is in keeping with their whole objective through this whole issue. They have never tried to be constructive. They have never tried to be a part of a solution. They have never tried to help the community and the people that have wanted to keep the Jets here in Manitoba, Madam Speaker--

Point of Order

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Leader of the official opposition, on a point of order.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, you have pointed out to members in the opposition asking questions that they must ask questions with one short sentence on a supplementary question.

Similar instructions should be issued to the ministers of government not to debate issues. If they cannot table the agreement they should just sit down, rather than entering into the debate as we have seen from the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson). This is totally off the mark from the question raised by the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale).

Madam Speaker: On the point of order, I would remind the honourable minister that the response should not provoke debate, Beauchesne 408(2) and Beauchesne 417.

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Mr. Sale: Could the minister confirm that under the infrastructure agreement the province ensured that the project that was discussed in January of 1995, approximately the 19th or 18th of that month, was structured so as to ensure that the ongoing operating costs are borne by the project proponent and that satisfactory financial arrangements were in place and were approved by the province at that time, Madam Speaker?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, in terms of the infrastructure agreement, as I have indicated, it was agreed by the federal government and the provincial government that if a new facility was going to be built, that that would be one element of providing some of the funding.

I should again remind members that if you go back to the first element of funding that occurred in terms of finding a solution to keep the Jets in Manitoba, that goes back to 1994 when there were some amendments to the interim funding agreement, Madam Speaker.

But this project was agreed to by the federal government and the provincial government, that the infrastructure program would be a portion of the funding if it were to be built, not unlike other projects, not unlike, as I mentioned to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) yesterday, the Kenaston underpass, that was a project that was started. Certain costs were incurred and then for various reasons that project was not proceeded with.

But in terms of the total utilization of funds, Madam Speaker, I have indicated that that information will be made available. It will be audited and it will be subject to scrutiny not only here in this Chamber but by Manitobans.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, is the minister then saying that no such agreement was ever drafted or exists, or is he going to have to create one and backdate it?

Point of Order

Hon. Jim Ernst (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, clearly the member for Crescentwood in posing that question imputed motives to the Minister of Finance which are highly inappropriate, and he should be asked to withdraw them immediately and unconditionally.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. On the point of order, I will review Hansard, and I will check the wording of that question very carefully and report back to the House.

But at this time, I want to remind all honourable members that I know emotions run high, but I would prefer and I insist that you select and choose your words most carefully, as well as the context within which those words are said.

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Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, the creation and backdating of agreements may be the style of the member for Crescentwood or the party that he is associated with, but I want to assure you it is not the style of this minister or this government.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. James, with one short question.

Immigrant Referral Centre

Funding

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): My question is to the Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship.

In response to a question that I asked the minister last week, he indicated his department and his government was committed to providing settlement services for immigrants. Given that the project for the recent immigrant centre is on the verge of collapsing because this government has not made a commitment and the Minister of Education (Mrs. McIntosh) has refused to fund ESL for that project, will this minister make a commitment and ensure that that project goes ahead?

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Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship): Madam Speaker, I do have to point out that the honourable member is factually incorrect. This government and this department have been involved and we have committed some staff to that project. I know that the member has a strong affiliation with Winnipeg No. 1 School Division and it is really their project that the member is here promoting.

We have dedicated some staff time to that and are working with the group to see if this project is doable.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Time for Oral Questions has expired.

Committee Changes

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): I move, seconded by the member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Economic Development be amended as follows: Selkirk (Mr. Dewar) for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin); Wellington (Ms. Barrett) for Transcona (Mr. Reid); Dauphin (Mr. Struthers) for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale), for Thursday, September 28, 1995, for 10 a.m.

Motion agreed to.

NONPOLITICAL STATEMENT

Royal Canadian Legions--Korean War Plaques

Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): Madam Speaker, do I have leave to make a nonpolitical statement?

Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for Gimli have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Helwer: Madam Speaker, this past Sunday, September 24, I had the opportunity to represent the Province of Manitoba at the unveiling of plaques recognizing the Korean War. I had the privilege to witness the Royal Canadian Legions of Gimli, Winnipeg Beach and Selkirk unveil a plaque, a Korean plaque, on their respective war cenotaphs. As well, I had the honour of laying a wreath at each cenotaph on behalf of the province and on behalf of all Manitobans. The plaques recognize the contribution of 26,791 Canadians who served during the Korean War from the 25th of June, 1950, to July 27, 1953. When Canada decided to assist South Korea in resisting invasion by the forces of North Korea, we had only a limited idea of what we were becoming involved in. However, the sacrifice of the 516 individuals who perished and those who served allowed one more nation to live under the flag of democracy.

I hope all Manitobans join with me in extending our thanks to those individuals who made this sacrifice and to also congratulate the Royal Canadian Legion branches of Gimli, Winnipeg Beach and Selkirk for recognizing this. I know that other legions throughout Manitoba have done the same. Thank you, Madam Speaker.