Winnipeg Jets
Operating-Loss Agreement
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, I believe we are all very proud in this Chamber to note that today the Cree in Quebec have voted 96 percent in favour of Canada in the referendum that took place today.
I will proceed with the question that may not be as positive.
Madam Speaker, last Wednesday, we asked the government about the liability of losses for the taxpayers under the 1991 operating-loss agreement signed by the Premier (Mr. Filmon). We asked about the liability of losses under that agreement. Unfortunately, the minister responsible for the Jets, the Minister of Finance, answered in terms of the liability that he, quote, had met the owners of the team that morning, and he indicated the liability would be in the range of $17.5 million and would end with the selling of the team at the end of this season in June of next year.
Madam Speaker, we find out that the liability agreement is still in place until 1997, the agreement the Premier signed, and the date does not expire until July 15, 1997.
I would like to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon) why his Minister of Finance did not inform us after meeting with the majority owners, why he did not inform the public of the offer date agreement and therefore the liability until 1997.
Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, the agreement that the member is referring to was forwarded to us later that same day, that Wednesday that I met with Mr. Shenkarow, Mr. Sector and Mr. Davis in terms of the official agreement that they ultimately entered into with Mr. Burke and Mr. Gluckstern.
I want to make it clear, Madam Speaker, that the clause the member is referring to does suggest that the team would be sold by July 1997 or an earlier date as agreed to by the buyer and the seller, and the majority owners here in Manitoba indicated to me that morning that it is their agreement with Mr. Burke and Mr. Gluckstern to sell the team by July of 1996.
That is certainly what they went out and said publicly, Madam Speaker. That is what Mr. Burke and Mr. Gluckstern have said, and the majority owners also have confirmed that in writing to me today, that the whole intention is to conclude the agreement by July 1996, and while there is a master agreement that reflects some of the terms of the 1991 interim agreement that the Leader of the Opposition refers to, there will be subagreements executed and entered into that will very clearly outline that the team will be sold by July 1996.
Mr. Doer: Is the minister telling us today that the majority owners, when they met with the minister last Wednesday morning prior to Question Period, did not inform him that the agreement stated July 15, 1997, which would make our liability in terms of the operating-loss agreement of the Premier (Mr. Filmon) extend another year, Madam Speaker?
Did he not know that? Was he not informed of that when the minister informed the House that our liability was over at the end of this hockey season?
* (1340)
Mr. Stefanson: The fact is, Madam Speaker, it will be and is over by July 1996. That is the very clear undertaking of the majority owners of the Winnipeg Jets hockey team, with the support of both levels of government, the City of Winnipeg and the Province of Manitoba, to sell the team as soon as possible after this hockey season.
I have explained for the Leader of the Opposition why there is reference to July 1997. It is a technical issue because of the interim operating agreement, but the agreements between the majority owners today and the buyers, Mr. Burke and Mr. Gluckstern, are to transfer that team by July 1996.
As I have indicated, we do have that outlined in writing to us today, and we also will be receiving copies of the subagreements that will spell that out in further detail, Madam Speaker.
So what I outlined to the House that day were the results of meetings I had that morning in terms of confirming what is going to happen with the Winnipeg Jets, and that was confirmed that same day by Mr. Shenkarow at a press conference he held that has been widely covered through the media here in Manitoba, Madam Speaker.
Mr. Doer: I asked the minister specifically what is our liability and what are our losses going to be, and the minister answered our liability is only to the end of this season.
An undertaking does not change a liability. I would like to ask the minister, does our liability extend to June 30, 1997, pursuant to the operating-loss agreement signed by the Premier (Mr. Filmon)? An undertaking does not change a liability. What are we liable for, the losses to 1997, Madam Speaker? Is the government going to pass legislation to change that agreement as we have proposed in the past?
Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, we will be responsible for 50 percent, but when I say we, I mean the Province of Manitoba will be responsible for 50 percent of the losses for this hockey season, 1995-96.
The transaction will close by July of 1996, and we will no longer be responsible for any portion of any of the losses. In fact, as the Leader of the Opposition knows, we will receive our share of the proceeds, proceeds coming to the two levels of government of some $32 million by the time you pay back the private sector notes. Our share of those proceeds will be approximately $10 million or $12 million, Madam Speaker.
Mr. Doer: With a new question, Madam Speaker, in 1993, the government told us the operating-loss agreement would end at the end of June of 1994.
Madam Speaker, in June of 1994, the government extended that agreement until May 1, 1995, and before the election the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and the minister responsible for the Jets promised us that we would no longer be liable for losses after May 1, 1995.
I would like to ask the Premier, why should the public believe this government that this undertaking will cancel our liability, when every time we have been promised before, it has, unfortunately, not been carried out and implemented by this government as they have indicated, Madam Speaker?
Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, the terminating of the 1991 interim agreement by May of this year was obviously on the basis that the Leader of the Opposition knows full well, that the team would be sold. That was one of the conditions in terms of all of the discussions and negotiations with originally the MEC organization and then ultimately Spirit.
The member refers to believing people in this Chamber, Madam Speaker. I want to remind him that it was they who came to this Chamber with suggestions that we would be responsible for $6 million in one year as part of a contract for the hockey player, Keith Tkachuk. It was not us who came with that inaccurate information. I clarified that information for them here in the House, that we are responsible for one-fifth of that contract. They were wrong on that issue.
The member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) suggested some time ago when asking about--[interjection] You do not want to hear the answers? Madam Speaker, the member for Crescentwood some time ago made reference--
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Point of Order
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, I believe if you refer to Beauchesne's, I think you will find that the minister can choose not to answer the question. The minister can choose to put on the record, but the minister ought not to try to attempt to answer questions he could not answer last week in the context of his response, and he ought not to provoke debate, and I think you should call the minister to order on that.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Kildonan does not have a point of order. It is a dispute over the facts.
* * *
* (1345)
Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, only this government can defend hiring Keith Tkachuk, paying his salary and closing emergency wards in community hospitals. Those are the priorities we see opposite.
Madam Speaker, the minister just answered that the operating-loss agreement was going to be cancelled because they were going to sell the team to another set of owners.
Is this not the same undertaking the minister now has, another attempt to buy the team by another group of owners, so are we not liable in a legal way until June 30, 1997, when the operating-loss agreement is over, Madam Speaker, and why did the minister not tell us about the total liability and the 1997 date? Why did we have to find out about it a week later?
Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, I have already outlined very clearly for the member that the current majority owners have an agreement with Burke and Gluckstern to sell the team effective July 1996, and part of that agreement will be the termination of the 1991 interim agreement, and with the termination of the agreement, that terminates any liabilities or responsibilities of the City of Winnipeg and the Province of Manitoba.
I want to get back, Madam Speaker, to his question in terms of the whole issue of credibility on this issue. His member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) suggested there is forlorn hope that there will be any interest returned on the $5-million down payment.
Well, I want to tell the Leader of the Opposition here today, Madam Speaker, that today we received a cheque from Aikins MacAulay, the solicitors for the Winnipeg Jets, for $5,116,318.79, which is the full refunding of the $5-million deposit along with interest, so once again, as has been the case on this issue continually, they bring misinformation, inaccurate information, and are incorrect in terms of their dealing with this issue.
Barry Shenkarow Salary
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, last week, the minister indicated that he would take as notice the salary that is being paid to Mr. Shenkarow for the '93-94 year and the 1994-95 hockey year.
The minister has had a week now to get that information. Can the minister now tell the public how much is the salary for Mr. Shenkarow?
Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, an oversight when I responded to that other supplementary question, I will table copies of the letter I referred to.
Madam Speaker, the member is correct. He asked me that question last week. I followed up on it that day. The chair of the committee responsible for reviewing the interim operating agreement, Mr. Del Crewson, was out of town, is expected back this week, and I will certainly undertake to obtain that information from him this week and provide it.
Winnipeg Jets
Purchasing Agreement
Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, under Section 9.5(a) and (b), (i) and (ii) of the interim operating agreement signed by the Premier (Mr. Filmon), a buyer of the team, and I quote, shall have executed and delivered to the province and Enterprises an offer in writing, take along offer to purchase all, less than all and so forth.
The Minister of Finance has a very easy way of resolving the questions that have been asked in this House, and that is simply to table the offer which the province has received, which has a material effect on the well-being of the province's finances over the next year.
Very simply, you have the offer in your possession. Will you table it so the public does not have to ask questions over and over and over again?
Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, it is certainly our intention to make as much information available as we possibly can relating to that agreement. We believe it is in the best interests of not only individuals in this Chamber but all Manitobans, recognizing that we are only one party to this entire transaction.
In fact, the agreement is with the majority owners of the Winnipeg hockey club along with Winnipeg Enterprises Corporation, which effectively owns the shares for the interest that the city and the province have in the entity, Madam Speaker, so, again, we are one party to a transaction.
There are elements of third-party confidentiality, but, certainly, I will undertake to provide as much information as we possibly can, that we are able to provide, on the agreement.
Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, given his refusal to provide documents that are in his possession and which could answer all these questions, will the minister then at least table with the House in writing the specific clauses of the offer which offer Mr. Burke and Mr. Gluckstern an out from the current agreement?
What are the conditional clauses? They will include at least NHL approval, a place for the team to go and many other clauses. What are the outs, Mr. Minister?
Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, I guess, unlike the member for Crescentwood, it is not a matter of refusing to table the information, it is a matter of respecting third-party confidentiality and the rights of other individuals, other than just the questions from the member for Crescentwood. It is that simple. I wish the member would understand and appreciate that.
We will certainly provide all of the information we can on that agreement. We have certainly provided some of the most significant information to date that we can in terms of the price that the team is being sold for, $68 million U.S.
We have now discussed and clarified the issue of the timing of the closing date, and we will continue to provide as much information as we possibly can on that issue, Madam Speaker.
* (1350)
Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, will the minister at least agree that keeping this information secret until after the civic election clearly has a material effect on the civic election and on the re-election of their favourite candidates in this case?--another political election manipulation.
Mr. Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, I have experienced many ridiculous questions from the member for Crescentwood, but that is unquestionably the most ridiculous question he has put in his short time since being elected.
I certainly encourage him to stand up and indicate who he is supporting for mayor and who the NDP party is supporting for mayor, Madam Speaker.
Manitoba Medical Association
Meeting Invitation
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, it is very clear that the decision to close the community hospital emergency wards was badly planned, ill-conceived and is frankly a mistake by the Department of Health.
Another example of that mistake is the fact that the Manitoba Medical Association which is supposed to be a partner in the planning of this entire process was not even invited to the planning meeting held last week in order to discuss the emergency wards.
Can the minister explain to this House, in the midst of all of the difficulties and the total failure in the planning of this whole process, how it is the Manitoba Medical Association was not invited to attend that major meeting?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the honourable member is wrong. The Manitoba Medical Association was, indeed, invited. That does not mean there was not some misunderstanding about the matter. [interjection]
I say that quite seriously, Madam Speaker. The association, the Manitoba Medical Association, was advised of the meeting prior to the meeting, the day before the meeting, but we have a letter from Mr. LaPlume of the Manitoba Medical Association complaining that he did not get appropriate notification, and he has an apology from the department about that, but there was notification of the meeting the day before.
Information Request
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, I will table a copy of the letter from Mr. LaPlume to the government, indicating that the government did not invite the MMA, and, in fact, the government's letter back to the MMA indicated they did not have their association members approved until after the meeting.
My question for the minister: Can the minister please advise this House whether or not the MMA, which is also requesting information, information that the public ought to have--will the minister provide the information the MMA is requesting and is suggesting that it will get from Freedom of Information?
Will he provide that information to the MMA so it can have some material to help base its decisions on, that it is supposed to be helping the government with when it gets invited and attends?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): The honourable member is aware, Madam Speaker, of the membership of the Integrated Emergency Services Delivery Steering Committee.
There are numerous, numerous medical people, including representatives of the Manitoba Medical Association, numerous people representing various aspects of the nursing profession, the Consumers' Association, the Manitoba Society of Seniors, Ron Wally of the MAHCP. There are other physician representatives. All the hospitals are represented on this committee.
Who better to be brought together to talk about emergency services than the people who know more about emergency services than I do or the honourable member, Madam Speaker?
* (1355)
Health Care System
Emergency Services
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the minister, now that he is consulting after the wards are closed and have been closed, will the minister provide the public with information concerning why they made the decision, on what basis it was made, whether or not cost savings were the factor, et cetera?
Will he provide that information to the public, now that he has already made the decision, Madam Speaker?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, honourable members opposite often complain about the nature of answers to the questions that are put to us on this side of the House, and they confound the issue with their preambles, so that you have to spend the time allotted to you to sort out all of the incorrect rhetoric that they put on the record.
For example, the honourable member talks about the fact that we are now consulting. We have been consulting since back in July, long before the doctors decided to go on strike on Labour Day. I mean, we asked the doctors not to do that, but we had to do something to develop a contingency plan, and that has been done through a very, very consultative process and a consensus arrived at in these matters, Madam Speaker.
The honourable member gets told that by myself and by others, but he chooses not to hear that, I guess, Madam Speaker.
Health Care System
Emergency Services
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): My question is also for the Minister of Health.
It seems that it is only this particular minister or this government that believes that emergency community services are not necessary 24 hours a day. I was quite pleasantly surprised when the Minister of Health yesterday said, and I quote, the whole idea of savings is not what is driving the process of emergency services in the city of Winnipeg.
Madam Speaker, my question to the minister is, if it is not because of savings that you are doing this, then why are you doing something which it seems every expert out in the field is saying that you should not be doing? Why are you doing it?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the honourable member talks about savings, and I remind him that there will be a need for savings in our health system. We have to make sure we spend every dollar very, very wisely.
Just by way of example, if each and every community hospital in Winnipeg, not just the emergency rooms at night, but whole hospitals were closed down and those services not made available somewhere else, we would not have enough money saved to equal the $220-million cut that Ottawa will have imposed on us by two fiscal years from now. That is the gravity of the situation Ottawa is imposing on the provinces in this country, Madam Speaker.
I would like all honourable members to realize that this is the kind of environment we are working in. Nonetheless, Madam Speaker, that being the case, the honourable member talks about all these people who have a differing view, and yet the changes that have been made thus far have been made after consultations and after consensus-building has happened. I shared, yesterday I think it was, with the honourable member a membership list of the Integrated Emergency Services Delivery Steering Committee.
Madam Speaker, those are all experts in the field of emergency medicine, not the honourable member, not me, not the member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak), but people who know how these things should be handled.
Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, those individuals are not necessarily agreeing with what the Minister of Health is saying.
Madam Speaker, my question to the minister is, will he stand by what he said yesterday in this Chamber when he said savings are not what is driving this process and tell this Chamber what is driving the process if it is not savings?
Mr. McCrae: Well, the honourable Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) has asked this question, and the honourable member for Inkster, too, about savings. I have said that is not the driving, determining factor here, Madam Speaker. We were placed in a situation on Labour Day when we were in a position where we had to put together a contingency plan, which we did.
Madam Speaker, we are carrying on with an orderly reopening of emergency services in the city of Winnipeg. That is what happened when the strike came to an end. Services during the 14 hours of the day were brought back to ordinary levels of service available in our community hospitals and closed at night. That was the consensus reached at that time as to the best plan to go with.
The honourable member is alone, almost, except he is joined, I think, by the member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak), in saying that the best emergency services program is to have this 24-hour service across the city, when virtually everybody else agrees, Madam Speaker, that that amounts to an oversupply and not something that appropriately deals with the need that is out there.
* (1400)
Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, can the Minister of Health tell us who everyone else is, outside of this cabinet and the Conservative caucus? Who are the other people who are telling this minister that we need to shut down emergency services? It is not Marcel Laurendeau.
Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, it is not unlike, clearly, the honourable member to take the same attitude as members of the New Democratic Party, for example, who are on record in the past as saying that double-staffing is what should exist for certain circumstances--double-staffing, twice as many people as you need to deliver services.
In other words, our friends on the opposite side of the House would have health care professionals all across this province sitting around twiddling their thumbs, doing nothing while patients need services.
Health Care System
Sexual Assault Treatment Protocols
Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): My questions, too, are for the Minister of Health.
Last week, my colleague from Burrows (Mr. Martindale) expressed concern about the experience of a sexual assault victim. I note, as well, that on June 22, 1994, the member for Wellington (Ms. Barrett) expressed concern about there being no standard protocols in Winnipeg's emergency rooms to deal with victims of abuse and assault.
The minister answered that day that he had, and I quote from Hansard, today asked the Department of Health to bring together the Department of Justice, the major police forces, the Manitoba hospital organizations, so that we can sit down and decide on the appropriate kind of protocol.
My first question for the minister is, has the minister reviewed the policy guidelines from the Moncton Hospital in New Brunswick which the member for Wellington sent him in June 1994?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the question raised the other day by the honourable member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale) was taken very seriously by myself and by my department.
I would like the honourable member to know that in that case the appropriate measures, I am given to understand, were taken. In a case like that, for evidentiary and other reasons, it is appropriate that a person in those circumstances present at the forensic unit at the Health Sciences Centre. That is what was done in that case, and that would be appropriate to any protocols.
As far as the other part of the question, I will review my file on the matter and report to the honourable member.
Ms. McGifford: Can the minister assure this House that his department, in conjunction with the others listed earlier, has developed a standard protocol which is now in place in Manitoba's hospitals?
Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, I remember my days in a former portfolio, and much of my work at that time which I am glad to see is carried on by my successor had to do with creating a safer society for women and children in all of our communities.
Part of my work and part of the work that is still going on is to ensure that we follow protocols in Manitoba that flow from things like the Pedlar review and those types of reports dealing with violence, domestic violence and other kinds of sexual assaults and those sorts of things that have been more and more in Manitoba.
In fact, I am told even today that Manitoba is on the leading edge, and I am not being told that as a Minister of Health. I am being told that because that is what is important to people, Madam Speaker, right across this country, that issues relating to people's personal security and dignity are important in Manitoba, and the government recognizes that.
Ms. McGifford: Since the minister agreed last year that protocol was a serious issue, can he tell this House why he has not even taken himself seriously?
Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, with a question like that, I think really all you can do is consider the source.
I tell you, Madam Speaker, I take my responsibilities extremely seriously, and I know my colleague the Minister of Justice (Mrs. Vodrey) and all my colleagues take our responsibilities seriously, and those responsibilities have to do with developing the safest province that we can possibly develop.
MERLIN
Manitoba Telephone System Role
Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, in 1994, after six years in office, the government recognized distance education as one of its six educational priorities and created a special operating agency known as MERLIN. In its long-term business plan, MERLIN has indicated, quite naturally, that it must work closely with the Manitoba Telephone System.
I want to ask the Minister of Education to tell us why on September 26 of this year in committee the acting president of the Manitoba Telephone System, Mr. Fraser, could say: I am quite honestly not familiar with MERLIN and what role MTS may be playing with regard to it. I do not know if anyone is familiar with that.
Madam Speaker, this gives new meaning to the term "distance education."
I would like the Minister of Education to tell us how this could happen.
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): I cannot comment on a conversation that took place back in September of 1994--[interjection] 1995. I cannot comment on a conversation that was made in September 1995, Madam Speaker.
I can tell you, whatever was said back then, that the MTS is certainly aware of MERLIN today, and that is the important thing as we begin our work in distance education in Manitoba.
CRTC Licensing
Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, I was referring to the public record Hansard, September 26, not a private conversation, and that was--
Madam Speaker: Order, please. This is not a time for debate. The honourable member for Wolseley was recognized for a supplementary question.
Ms. Friesen: Madam Speaker, would the minister explain to the House how MERLIN will be involved in the setting of tariffs under the CRTC, again indicated in MERLIN's business plan as one of their major roles?
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, the member knows that MERLIN is in its infancy.
MERLIN has been set up as a special operating agency only very recently, and the work that is being done to date is to iron out specifically those kinds of concerns the member has identified, taking a look at regulations, taking a look at rates, taking a look at opportunities that are available for various communities, school divisions and others, because MERLIN will not be restricted specifically and only to education.
We will see other people coming onto that highway sharing costs and services, and all of that, Madam Speaker, the member would like to see in place today or tomorrow at 9 a.m., and I would as well, but I am indicating to the member that which I think she does know, that it does take time for projects to get up and running and be fully implemented.
I am extremely pleased and proud that this government has taken on this initiative and is working so hard to ensure that this project is ultimately successful--[interjection] Are you rising? The Speaker is not.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. It is absolutely amazing how many people would like to sit in this Chair at one point or other.
Ms. Friesen: Madam Speaker, could the minister tell the House whether MERLIN has yet applied for a licence from CRTC as a broadcasting entity--again in the business plan indicated as of the utmost priority for MERLIN?
* (1410)
Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, I do much rather take my instructions from you than members opposite. I am pleased to see that you insist upon that role being played.
The member has been informed as we went through Estimates in the spring and I believe as well through communications with my department and also just from general information that is available through committees, et cetera, that MERLIN is in the process of getting itself up and running.
I have indicated that they are in communication with the Manitoba Telephone System, with the--[interjection] Well, Madam Speaker, if this is another case where the member comes to the House, as she does so often, with a predetermined answer that she has decided is the answer--I mean, I am telling her an answer, and she is telling me what she thinks the answer is, does not clearly want to hear what I have to say, bases all her subsequent questions on her own assumptions of what she thinks the answer to the first question is, and like the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae), it is extremely frustrating to try and have a proper dialogue with these people.
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Point of Order
Ms. Friesen: On a point of order, Madam Speaker, my quotations have been precisely from the public record of Hansard on September 26. My questions have been based upon the business plan of MERLIN in the minister's department responsible to this minister.
Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley does not have a point of order.
Swan Valley School Division
Post-Secondary Distance Education
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, now that the Minister of Education has been briefed on distance education, I hope she understands that the Swan Valley School Division, after being denied FYDE and Universities North, went ahead and set up their own program, invested their own money, and people have been graduating from university courses, but that program is now in jeopardy because of high telephone costs.
What action is this Minister of Education prepared to take to ensure that this program that is such a success, a program that could be used as a model for the rest of the province, is not shut down because of high telephone rates?
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): If my memory serves me correctly, I believe I was asked this question yesterday, but I understand, according to the rules, members are allowed to ask the same questions repeatedly daily, and that is what she is doing.
As I told her yesterday and will tell her again today, we appreciate very much what has happened in Swan in terms of the initiative that the people there have put in place, getting involved in this initiative. Other divisions have done the same, and we feel that that is a very good thing. They have been proactive in that regard.
The government of Manitoba, working to put in its overall program, supports those kinds of initiatives in divisions. Madam Speaker, as I have indicated, we are working very hard to see distance education set up, so that those clusters that have already started can come together to a common network that might not just be in Manitoba but outside of the province, as well.
Now, all concerns about rates and so on, of course, are something that will concern all of those involved. We want the lowest possible cost available, and we will do whatever is possible within our power to effect that.
Ms. Wowchuk: Since the government has been spouting about its commitment to distance education and this program is in jeopardy, will the Minister of Education put in place a plan for interim funding until a decision is made by the CRTC on rates and interim plans, so that the programs can continue to be offered from Swan River Collegiate?
Mrs. McIntosh: The member indicates her interest and concern in the distance education initiatives in her area, and I commend her for that because that is what I believe MLAs should be doing, expressing concerns for their constituencies as they embark upon new initiatives.
Right now, of course, Swan is able to interact with Infotech. It has a few sources. It is wanting more. Obviously, we want them to have more. As we go through the process and as rates are determined, as needs are identified, I have assured the member we will do all within our power to ensure that distance education does that which it is intended to do, with the help of the special operating agency MERLIN there to try to help address some of the very problems she has identified, purchasing problems, getting on stream, et cetera.
So, Madam Speaker, I cannot say to the member that tomorrow at nine o'clock, all of these things will be addressed and in place. I can say we have been working on them for many months and are continuing to work upon them and bring along with us those divisions that have started already.
Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, the minister does not understand that this has absolutely nothing to do with MERLIN.
Why is this government not--
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
The honourable member for Swan River, please pose her supplementary question now.
Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, since this has nothing to do with MERLIN, why is this government not prepared to take action and ensure that rural students who cannot come to the city for their education have an opportunity to take their courses in rural Manitoba? Why will they not put in place interim funding?
Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, I believe I answered this three times yesterday and for the third time again today to indicate to the member that the distance education initiative of this government--this government put this initiative in place.
This government has worked very hard to work with divisions, those few divisions that have already started, to try to get co-ordination, get everybody onto a common highway. We are now working to try to see that rates and so on that might be of concern to various jurisdictions are properly addressed, and I do not know what more I can say than to give her those reassurances.
Sport Manitoba
Administrative Costs
Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): I have a few questions for the Minister responsible for Sport as he moves ahead with the amalgamation of the Manitoba Sports Federation and the Sport Directorate to create the new body Sport Manitoba, keeping in mind that this is being done to ensure administrative costs are spent efficiently with the aim being to support and develop the athletes, the coaches, the volunteers of amateur sport in Manitoba.
Can the minister, in terms of administrative cost, compare the cost for renting the new building on Main Street with the cost for the 31 staff at the Manitoba Sports Federation?
Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister responsible for Sport): I am not sure, Madam Speaker, of the question the member has asked. Perhaps she could clarify it somewhat for me.
Ms. Cerilli: I would be pleased to clarify the question. The minister has said publicly that this endeavour is to ensure efficiency in administration of sport in Manitoba, and I am wanting some clarification to compare the administrative cost of the rent for the building on Main Street with the cost for the staff of the Manitoba Sports Federation.
Mr. Ernst: Madam Speaker, I do not have the exact numbers, either of the lease cost of the Manitoba Sports Federation building, which is the business of the Manitoba Sports Federation, nor the cost of their staff, which is also the business of the Manitoba Sports Federation.
What we have done is put in place a transition team to try and ascertain all of these costs and to determine what direction should be taken in order to minimize those expenses.
Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.
Committee Changes
Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): I move, seconded by the member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Economic Development be amended as follows: Thompson (Mr. Ashton) for Wolseley (Ms. Friesen); The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk); Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson) for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans); St. James (Ms. Mihychuk) for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) for Thursday, October 26, 1995, for 9 a.m.
I move, seconded by the member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources be amended as follows: Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans) for Dauphin (Mr. Struthers) for Thursday, October 26, 1995, for 10 a.m.
I move, seconded by the member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs be amended as follows: Dauphin (Mr. Struthers) for Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen) for Thursday, October 26, 1995, for 2:30 p.m.
I move, seconded by the member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Agriculture be amended as follows: Wellington (Ms. Barrett) for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans); Thompson (Mr. Ashton) for Interlake (Mr. Clif Evans) for Thursday, October 26, 1995, for 8 p.m. Thank you.
Motions agreed to.
* (1420)
Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): Madam Speaker, I have committee changes.
I move, seconded by the member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Municipal Affairs be amended as follows: the member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson) for the member for Emerson (Mr. Penner).
I move, seconded by the member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Tweed), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources be amended as follows: the member for St. Vital (Mrs. Render) for the member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau); the member for Emerson (Mr. Penner) for the member for River Heights (Mr. Radcliffe); the member for Ste. Rose (Mr. Cummings) for the member for Kirkfield Park (Mr. Stefanson).
I move, seconded by the member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Economic Development be amended as follows: the member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Praznik) for the member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau); the member for Pembina (Mr. Dyck) for the member for Emerson (Mr. Penner); the member for Minnedosa (Mr. Gilleshammer) for the member for St. Vital (Mrs. Render).
I move, seconded by the member for St. Vital (Mrs. Render), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Agriculture be amended as follows: the member for Emerson (Mr. Penner) for the member for Springfield (Mr. Findlay); the member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer) for the member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson).
Motions agreed to.
* * *
Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): I would like leave to make a nonpolitical statement.
Madam Speaker: Does the honourable member for Radisson have leave to make a nonpolitical statement?
Point of Order
Hon. Jim Ernst (Government House Leader): I have no objection to granting leave, Madam Speaker, but I wonder if the member might wait for a couple of minutes while we have the second reading of Bill 19, following which then we could revert to nonpolitical statements. It would facilitate the agenda of the Minister of Family Services (Mrs. Mitchelson).
Madam Speaker: Is there agreement that we revert to nonpolitical statements after second reading of Bill 19? [agreed]