Michael Bessey
Tuition Fees/Cash Advance
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister.
Mr. Bessey, a person known well to the Premier of the province, worked in a number of capacities, hired by the Premier, at deputy minister levels: secretary to Treasury Board, secretary to economic committees of government, and generally hired at a deputy minister level to conduct a lot of negotiations on behalf of the people of Manitoba.
Madam Speaker, it has been learned by the public that at the same time Mr. Bessey was working for the Premier in the government, he negotiated a tuition fee at Harvard, some $20,000 U.S. and an undisclosed amount of money for a so-called book advance.
I would like to ask the Premier, was he aware that one of his senior public employees was negotiating these arrangements at the same time he was working for the Province of Manitoba? Can the Premier tell us today how much money is being advanced for the so-called book in this arrangement?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, Mr. Bessey is a student at Harvard. He made his arrangements on his own. He submitted his resignation to the government of Manitoba, and Mr. Bessey has no further involvement with the Province of Manitoba. He is not on a leave of absence; he is not offered any opportunities for employment after he receives his Ph.D. His own arrangements with respect to his studies were ones that he made on his own.
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Mr. Doer: The Premier did not answer the question, and he did not answer whether the individual who worked for the Premier was making these arrangements at the same time he was working for the public of Manitoba.
On the one side of the street, Mr. Bessey was on the board of Faneuil ISG. Mr. Browne was involved with Faneuil as a vice-chair of economic development and a person that Mr. Bessey dealt with in terms of negotiations. Mr. Browne also owned a hundred percent of Stanton Corporation and he has a financial interest in Stanton Europa, a company that has now provided free tuition and a book advance to the same individual while he was still working for the province.
I would like to ask the Premier, has he investigated this matter, and did he make these arrangements as reported at the same time he was supposed to be working for the people of Manitoba?
Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, the facts of the case, as I understand it and have certainly investigated to the extent of being made available of the facts of the case, are that Mr. Bessey has a scholarship arrangement, including a repayable loan from a corporation that has no relationship to Manitoba and no relationship to the Faneuil group. The only relationship that has been able to be established by those who have been investigating it is that there is one common director between the two companies. Under any circumstances that have been made available to me under any information, I have no information with respect to a conflict of interest or any potential conflict of interest.
What I would recommend to the Leader of the Opposition is, rather than deal in innuendo, deal in perception and all of those things, that he simply put forth the allegation to the Legislative Counsel, Shirley Strutt. That is her responsibility to make those interpretations on behalf of anyone who makes an allegation.
I have no evidence to suggest that there is any conflict of interest in the circumstances, and rather than us deal in innuendo and rather than us deal with an individual's reputation based on perception or political expediency, Madam Speaker, what I would--[interjection] The conflict of interest for all the information that has been provided for me does not exist.
If the Leader of the Opposition has information, then he should go directly to the Legislative Counsel with that information so that we can get to the bottom of it, rather than deal with innuendo and perception and rather than attempt to simply besmirch the reputation of an individual who has served the province well and who has served the province in good stead.
Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, the Premier did not answer the question of whether he made these arrangements with the same individuals who were involved in Faneuil while he was on the board and while he was employed by the Premier. The Premier has not answered that question.
I would refer the Premier to the Oath of Office of public employees: I will not ask or receive any money, services, recompense or matter of anything whatsoever directly or indirectly in return for the services of discharge of my duties except my salary and wages.
Madam Speaker, this individual is reported to have negotiated tuition fees and a Newt Gingrich book advance while he was working for the Premier.
I would like to ask the Premier: In light of the fact that Legislative Counsel works for the Premier and cabinet, would the Premier agree to an independent investigation, an independent inquiry, bring in Ted Hughes or somebody independent from the government so we can investigate what was going on in the Premier's Office with somebody who seems to be working on both sides of the street? Will the Premier do that to clear the air?
Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, this is the most preposterous suggestion that has ever been made in this Legislature, and it shows why the members opposite have absolutely no credibility.
The fact is that we all deal in circumstances in which we have to make judgments each and every day, and when I make those judgments I go and ask the people who are responsible for the administration and the interpretation of the act to tell me what it is that is right and what it is that is wrong.
I have been given a set of information in which the only connection between a company that has provided a scholarship and the company that he has named, Faneuil, is that they have one common director. The company that is providing the scholarship has absolutely no business in Manitoba. Its business is economic consulting, primarily in Europe, and the work that is being done has to do with economic consulting and analysis to do with European economics in those countries that they deal with. That shows absolutely no evidence, as far as anything that I have been led to believe, that there is any potential for a conflict of interest.
I have asked for the interpretation from people who have to do with the administration of the act, and I am satisfied that there is not any conflict of interest.
If the member opposite has any evidence, rather than deal in innuendo, rather than trying to have a trial here by allegation, just go to the people who administer the act, present the facts and ask them to give you the legal interpretation. Please do not deal with people's lives in such a cheap political way for your own gain. That is all I ask.
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Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, it has been confirmed and not denied that the individual negotiated his personal arrangements while he was working for the Province of Manitoba, for the people. It has been confirmed or not denied by the Premier that this individual negotiated on the one hand with the company in question and on the other hand negotiated his own tuition and an undisclosed amount of money for a so-called book advance--those facts have not been denied by the Premier--while this individual was working in his office.
This individual was on the board of Faneuil ISG that was negotiating with Mr. Browne. Mr. Browne is a hundred percent owner of Stanton, and he also has financial interests in Stanton Europa. Stanton Europa had entered into these financial arrangements with Mr. Bessey while he was still working for the people of Manitoba.
Does the Premier not want to clear the air over a senior staff member who travelled all over the world with the Premier? Does he not want to clear the air about this individual, have an independent inquiry, an inquiry that is independent of government, Madam Speaker, so the public can be assured of the facts of this matter?
Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, the air is cleared. Under any information that has been presented on this case, there is no conflict of interest. If the member opposite has information that should lead to an investigation of conflict of interest, please go to the Legislative Counsel, I implore you, rather than just simply try and come here and smear an individual for your own political purposes. Please go to the--
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Point of Order
Mr. Doer: On a point of order, Madam Speaker, it is not members of this side who received a free tuition to Harvard and a book advance while we are working for the provincial public service. I wish the Premier would deal with the question about an independent inquiry, not engage in cheap politics as he is doing right now.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Leader of the official opposition does not have a point of order. It is clearly a dispute over the facts.
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Madam Speaker: The honourable First Minister, to complete his response.
Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, the only cheap politics that are being played are by members opposite.
I implore them. We have a system of law here based on democracy, and democracy says that if you have evidence or information, please go to the Legislative Counsel, put it before her, ask her to evaluate it and ask her to give you a response.
I am satisfied that the information provided does not give any conflict of interest, and I have sought legal opinion on it which has confirmed that point of view.
Madam Speaker, I ask the member opposite, please do not just engage in McCarthyist tactics and smear tactics. Please go here and go to the Legislative Counsel.
Point of Order
Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): On a point of order, Madam Speaker, Beauchesne is very clear in terms of Question Period. The Premier does not have to answer questions if he does not wish to do so, but it is the opposition's right to ask those questions.
Madam Speaker, it is not only unparliamentary but is offensive for that Premier now to be talking about McCarthy-type tactics. What we are asking for is for the Premier to be accounting for a question that is being raised on this side which deals with some very serious concerns. We have phrased those questions very carefully. All we ask from the Premier is straight answers.
Madam Speaker: On the point of order, I would remind the honourable First Minister to indeed exercise caution with the choice of his words.
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Michael Bessey
Tuition Fees/Cash Advance
Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, Faneuil's offices are located in Boston--the same address, the same fax number, the same receptionist answers the phone calls for Stanton group. Stanton is in the same offices. Mr. Browne, who owns Stanton group and who owns a beneficial interest in Stanton Europa, is a senior vice-president, a vice-chair and occupies other roles in Faneuil. It is very clear that Stanton Europa, while it may legally be an arm's length corporation, nevertheless is very directly related to the beneficial interests of Mr. Browne in his role in Faneuil.
Can the First Minister then explain why it is not a potentially inappropriate use of influence for a senior officer of government who is sitting on several senior commissions and trying to broker deals with Faneuil corporation with Mr. Browne, why is that not an inappropriate use of his office when he receives and has admitted he has received a very distinct benefit in terms of--
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): If the member opposite would like to go and learn about The Conflict of Interest Act which was passed--
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Point of Order
Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, I have never used the term, nor has the term been used by this side of the House today, "conflict of interest." The term has never been used. The First Minister keeps using the term, accusing us of calling this a conflict of interest. We have not done so. The term has not been used.
Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Crescentwood does not have a point of order. It is clearly a dispute over the facts.
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Mr. Filmon: I would encourage the member opposite to investigate our conflict-of-interest legislation which was conceived and developed by the New Democratic government which preceded us. Under that conflict-of-interest legislation, a member who is covered by that legislation, in this case Mr. Bessey, could in fact go to work for the Faneuil corporation, the restriction being that he could not then work on any matters that dealt with Manitoba. He is working on a thesis that will deal with eastern European economics. How on earth would that be a conflict of interest?
Madam Speaker, I implore the member for Crescentwood, if he is a man of principle, if he is a man who has any integrity whatsoever, to go to the Legislative Counsel--
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Point of Order
Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): Madam Speaker, Beauchesne's Citation 484 is very clear that members in this House should not either directly, or as the case of the Premier, by imputation reflect on the integrity of any member of this House. The Premier was very clearly doing that. If the Premier does not want to answer the question, he has that right, but he does not have the right to make those kinds of personal attacks once again against a member of the opposition who is simply asking questions in Question Period.
Madam Speaker: I will take the point of order under advisement and, if necessary, report back to the House.
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Madam Speaker: The honourable First Minister, to complete his response.
Mr. Filmon: I implore the member for Crescentwood to simply go to the Legislative Counsel, Shirley Strutt, and place his allegations on the table and let that be investigated in the manner in which it ought to be by the people who are responsible to ensure that we, either us as members of this Legislature or senior civil servants, do not breach any of the oaths that we take or any of the matters that are covered under conflict-of-interest legislation. Make the allegation and get a response.
Mr. Sale: Can the First Minister tell us what exactly were the roles of Mr. Bessey and Mr. Browne, who is Mr. Bessey's new employer, in negotiating new and lower rates for Faneuil so that Faneuil could bring some of its Chicago original, research customer-management services operation to Winnipeg?
When were those negotiations? What were the roles?
Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, the negotiations with respect to the Faneuil company concluded more than a year ago. The Faneuil corporation agreements were all signed and the Faneuil corporation made its announcement in August of 1994 publicly. All of that was done more than a year ago.
In addition to that, I would say that the member opposite says that Mr. Bessey is an employee of the Stanton Europa group. He has, as I understand it--and I am only going by what I read in the newspaper--a scholarship and an agreement to produce research that will be of benefit to the corporation, for which he will be paid.
Mr. Sale: Did Mr. Bessey at any time withdraw from board meetings of Faneuil ISG during the last six months as a consequence of his negotiations for tuition and book advance with Mr. Browne?
Mr. Filmon: Mr. Bessey was not dealing with and not negotiating, as I understand it, with the Faneuil corporation. He was dealing with a group that is independent of the Faneuil corporation on matters that have nothing to do with Manitoba or with the Faneuil corporation.
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Seven Oaks General Hospital
Nursing Supervisors
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, when we raised initially the concerns about the budget cuts to Seven Oaks Hospital in this Chamber, the Minister of Health denied that was taking place. When we talked about the LPNs being laid off, the minister talked about how he valued LPNs. Of course, the LPNs have now been laid off and, in addition, all the LPNs at Health Sciences Centre were told on Thursday they are being laid off.
Now the nursing supervisors at Seven Oaks are being laid off. They are the only backups available to the already tattered workforce at those hospitals as a result of this government's cutbacks.
Can the Premier explain to this House why, since they say they make the final decisions in this regard, they continue to cut and chip away at those hospitals and why they continue to eliminate nurses who provide the main level of care at the institution?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): The plan set out is before the Health department for review to see what effect it will have on hospital service delivery as well as the overall health system in Winnipeg.
We are talking about the reduction of some management positions, and some of those reductions have already been accommodated through attrition. We expect, through attrition and the process involved, that there would be not very many people having to face layoff.
In any event, Madam Speaker, a meeting is scheduled for this week, at which the president of Seven Oaks Hospital will be meeting with senior Manitoba Health officials to discuss the plan in greater detail.
Health Care System
Emergency Services
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, can the minister explain then when he will be announcing his decision with respect to the closure or the reopening of some or all emergency wards, and will he allow the public to have an input into those changes prior to the government implementing the changes to the emergency wards since, as I understand it, management have been told what those changes are already?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): The honourable member understands that incorrectly. When we talk about consultations taking place, that is exactly what is happening. And when we talk about those consultations being meaningful, we mean that too.
Seven Oaks General Hospital
Closure
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, my final supplementary to the Minister of Health: Will the minister also be consulting with the medical staff in the Department of Psychiatry at Seven Oaks Hospital who have written a letter of concern to the Minister of Health and to many of us in this Chamber about their concerns about the possible closure of Seven Oaks Hospital as a result of this government's cutbacks and the effect it will have on the already strained resources of mental health resources affecting psychiatric patients, not only in the north end of Winnipeg but the entire city of Winnipeg?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): As I have said, Madam Speaker, this health care system is not my health care system, nor is it the honourable member's health care system. It is a system that belongs to all Manitobans.
I hope the honourable member would repudiate what his Leader once said, that he would be delighted to defend Ontario health policy back in the days of Bob Rae. They shut down 10,000 hospital beds in that province and very little news about the level of consultation held in that province, or in Saskatchewan where 52 rural hospitals were shut down, very little word about the level of consultation in that regard.
But that is something that happens here. We consult very widely before decisions are made.
Manitoba Telephone System
Brokerage Firms--Mandate
Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Speaker, on Friday, after repeated questioning, we finally learned from the government that they have indeed--and this was confirmed in more detail outside of the House, coincidentally, by the Premier--engaged three brokers that are currently looking at a number of aspects related to the privatization of MTS, something that they denied repeatedly in this House and denied repeatedly as recently as September in a committee of this House.
Now it has finally been confirmed by the Premier, I would like to ask if the Premier can indicate when these firms were retained and what their mandate exactly is in terms of MTS.
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I do not have an exact date, but my recollection is it is sometime within the last three weeks.
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Mr. Ashton: I would like to thank the Premier for that information.
I would like to then ask not only why this was not raised publicly by the government, not only during the election, but why the government, which is talking about openness in terms of Crown entities, did not even bother to reference this in the throne speech which was tabled in this House, read by the Lieutenant Governor last Tuesday.
Mr. Filmon: Because, Madam Speaker, at this point we do not have a particular plan in mind. We are undergoing investigations that will lead to decisions presumably down the road.
As I said in my speech to the Chamber of Commerce luncheon the other day, the fact of the matter is that our Crowns are now in situations in which many of them, particularly the Telephone System, are competing with private sector corporations in areas in which they get half of their revenue, and an increasing portion of their revenue will occur from those areas of competition in future.
It is therefore incumbent on us, in order to protect the interests of the taxpayer, to continue to evaluate whether or not they should be operating in the public sector when they are one of only two companies in Canada that do that as publicly owned corporations. Everyone else in the field is a private sector corporation and so therefore it is incumbent on us, in order to protect a huge investment, a billion-dollar investment that the taxpayer has, to investigate whether or not it is still wise for them to be in that certain situation.
Privatization--Public Consultations
Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Speaker, since the public of Manitoba is in effect the shareholders, if you want to put this in corporate terms, and since we have no information from the Premier as to exactly when this process will take place--the brokerage firms are indicating that it could be as soon as January or February--will the Premier, who has not given much information on this until we raised this in the House, at least say to Manitobans today that he will not sell off any part of MTS without fully involving the people of Manitoba, not just the Chamber of Commerce, but the people of Manitoba, in the process of debating whether indeed we should keep MTS as a public-owned asset?
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, we have been elected to office to exercise judgment, to make decisions in the best interests of the public and we continue to always ensure that we take that responsibility very seriously and that in every area of administration and every area of responsibility, we continue to evaluate what we are doing, how we are doing it and whether or not we could be doing it better, and that is part and parcel of the evaluation that is taking place with respect to the Manitoba Telephone System.
Eye Examinations
Deinsurance
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.
There is a great deal of concern that Manitobans have with respect to the deinsurance or the potential deinsurance of eye examinations. In fact, the Manitoba Medical Services Council is not able to achieve a consensus with the different interested groups.
My question to the Minister of Health is: Is this government prepared to make a statement on their position regarding the potential of having deinsurance of our eye examinations?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, when word arrives that the Manitoba Medical Services Council is examining a particular tariff item, the concerns that arise arise not only in the mind of the honourable member or members of the public, they arise in the minds of honourable members on this side of the House too. We have legitimate questions that we want to ask of the Manitoba Medical Services Council. We ask those questions. Hopefully, at some point they will be able to respond to our concerns and if they make a report at that time, we would then look at that report and go from there.
Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, given that on October 19 and November 16 this committee actually met and I believe they have provided some information directly to the minister, can the minister give a government position on deinsuring eye examinations? Does this particular minister support that?
Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, the reason we have a Manitoba Medical Services Council is to assist government in arriving at the kinds of policy directions the honourable member is asking us to jump out with today. I think it is appropriate that we let the experts do their work and then go from there.
Mr. Lamoureux: Just so that I can be somewhat clear for the Minister of Health, we in the Liberal Party believe that eye examinations should be insured under health care. Does this minister believe likewise?
Mr. McCrae: I do not know what data the honourable member and his colleagues are using to arrive at the decision. It may or may not be the same data being used by the Prime Minister of Canada, Madam Speaker, who takes a very narrow view of the insured aspect of our Canada Health Act.
I suggest the honourable member might want to touch bases with his federal counterparts on that point. I think the Prime Minister referred to catastrophic events only. The honourable member has a different view, yet he will not pick up the phone when it comes to the very, very staggering reductions that are being imposed on us from Ottawa.
I hope the honourable member will raise his concerns with his colleagues in Ottawa as well as here.
Brandon General Hospital
Budget Reduction
Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Madam Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Health.
Since 1990, the Brandon General Hospital has had its operating budget cut by $5 million and is now being required to cut another $2.2 million by the Minister of Health for the year 1996-97. In responding to these pending cuts, the hospital may be forced to eliminate 35 beds at the Assiniboine Centre plus 20 acute medical beds, involving a reduction of over 40 equivalent full-time positions.
Will the minister confirm that he is cutting the additional $2.2 million at Brandon General Hospital and that it will further jeopardize the ability of that hospital to deliver top-quality health care in the Westman area?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, rather than going back simply to 1990, I think the honourable member for Brandon East might be encouraged to go back to 1987, when he and his colleagues unilaterally ordered the closure of 43 hospital beds at Brandon General Hospital.
I remember well sitting over on the other side of the House when my colleagues were asking Larry Desjardins and the NDP at that time, what was the basis for these cuts at Brandon General Hospital. You know the answer, Madam Speaker? Health care reform. That was back in 1987, so the honourable member ought to keep that in mind.
He ought also to keep in mind that we very, very carefully monitor every proposal that comes forward from the hospital sector to ensure that patient care is the No. 1 priority with the hospitals as patient care is the No. 1 priority with us.
Mr. Leonard Evans: I would wish the Minister of Health not rewrite history, and talk to the--
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Brandon East, with a supplementary question.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Does the minister have a plan for the future of Brandon General Hospital? How many more millions of dollars will he cut? How many more beds will he close? How many more staff will he lay off? Where is it all going to end, and when is it all going to end?
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Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, the honourable member for Brandon East keeps an eye on Brandon General Hospital just like I do, as we both represent Brandon constituencies, so it is certainly appropriate that we have an opportunity to discuss the future of Brandon General Hospital from time to time.
No matter how you look at it, Madam Speaker, the city of Brandon is today and will remain for the foreseeable future, for as long as the honourable member and I can see forward, a major regional centre in the western part of the province of Manitoba. There is no way to look at it any other way but that Brandon General Hospital will be an extremely important facility for many, many years to come. So it would be incumbent upon any government to ensure that their planning is appropriate to the kind of future that we can expect in health reform.
The honourable member ought not to ignore the fact that technology has made very, very significant advances for us in health care which have resulted in major changes in the hospitals, which will continue to happen.
Centre for Health Policy
Recommendations--Westman Area
Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Madam Speaker, will the minister confirm that the Centre for Health Policy, which is a government-funded body, has prepared a report recommending that eight hospitals in the Westman area will be closed, including Wawanesa, Glenboro, Boissevain, Treherne, Rivers, Rossburn, Shoal Lake and Birtle and that this will result in an exodus of doctors from these areas plus a large reduction of health care personnel and a consequential reduction in health care services in the Westman area?
Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I will not be confirming something like that. The honourable member knows that we are in the process of establishing regional health boards to run the health system in the various regions of the province of Manitoba. They have at their disposal the work and the capabilities of the Manitoba Centre for Health Policy and Evaluation which I think it was the NDP acknowledged was beyond reproach and an international leader in this sort of work.
So, no, I will not be confirming anything like that for the honourable member today, but all health care providers, all people involved in decision making for health care will indeed be addressing the issues in facilities and in the communities throughout Manitoba in the future.
Department of Natural Resources
Staff Biologist Firing
Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Natural Resources.
The Department of Natural Resources is riddled with secrecy, gag orders and intimidation. Employees are threatened with transfers and indeed some of them have been transferred just for doing their jobs. Last Friday, this government fired Dan Soprovich for raising concerns regarding the Louisiana-Pacific forestry agreement signed by this minister.
In specific, was Mr. Soprovich fired because he recommended a more accurate formula for calculating the volume of wood in the annual allowable cut or was he fired because he recommended better ways to protect wildlife?
Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, I am surprised and I am disappointed that the member would raise that issue here in the House. [interjection] Let me clarify that. The issue was first raised when there was a transfer suggested for Mr. Soprovich, and the question was raised by the member for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk) as to why this was happening. I normally do not involve myself with the administrative end of it, but in this particular case, because the question was raised, I did.
I can clarify why the transfer to Thompson at that time was suggested. We have had a position open there for almost two years where we have 40 outfitters out there, and it was felt instead of having a wildlife biologist in Swan, it would be advantageous to have a forestry individual in the Swan area because of the activities taking place there.
Madam Speaker, further to that, though, when I did a check into it--I want to caution the member that the individual who has been dismissed has the right to appeal and by having open discussion about that issue in this House here, I think we would jeopardize the opportunity for a proper appeal in that case.
An Honourable Member: Oh, great, you are such a generous soul. Fire him and now you are defending his right to appeal.
Mr. Driedger: Well, Madam Speaker, there was a further question asked. The member maybe was not on his feet, but I want to respond to his question as well.
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Mr. Struthers: How is it that one wildlife biologist can cause the whole department, including the minister, to be running scared? What are you hiding from?
Mr. Driedger: Madam Speaker, I do not want to get into the details of this at this point in time until the employee has had his chance for an appeal, but it would suggest the fact that the member for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk) and the member for Dauphin were basically huddling with that individual during the whole course of the hearing.
If the members want the full details of it, because I have now acquainted myself with the full details of what has happened with the dismissal, I will tell you something: I will make my statements after that individual has had his right for an appeal, and they should consider that very carefully.
Louisiana-Pacific
Federal-Provincial Review
Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Since the Minister of Natural Resources is too busy firing his own people, I want to ask the Minister of Environment if he realizes there are gaps in federal information and gaps in provincial information, so why would he participate in the hearings that are proceeding in January? Why not call for a provincial-federal review of the Louisiana-Pacific project, or does he prefer Manitoba to be left holding the bag for millions of dollars in future liability and court costs?
Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): Madam Speaker, I hope I misunderstood the member for Dauphin when he was implying that somehow the federal government is about to go into a great process of attempting to take our process to court. If that is his implication, I want to assure him that we have been working for years with the federal authorities to make sure that the process is clear, to make sure that any concerns that might be raised in the area of federal responsibility are appropriately answered.
Now if he has questions about whether or not there is information available, we have had a process that has been ongoing for the last number of months, and I think the very fact that the commission has extended for an additional day the opportunity to receive any further information would indicate that there is a pretty good working relationship between this province and the federal authorities on the delegation of responsibility. It could be better, but we have been working for years to make sure that it is at least cohesive, and I think he should rephrase his question.
Real Estate Industry
Fraud Investigation
Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, my question is to the minister responsible for the Manitoba Securities Commission.
On December 7 the minister said he had only become aware of the real estate flip ring after reading a week-old article in the newspaper. Now, hopefully, the minister can tell the House why the commission was aware of the ring over a year ago and yet he knows nothing about this ring that has preyed on first-time homebuyers and this minister has done nothing.
Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): The Manitoba Securities Commission is a quasi-judicial board that deals with regulations and overseeing the operations of a number of areas of our economy, Madam Speaker, one of which is the real estate industry. They do not regularly consult with me. I do not regularly consult with them. They have legislation under which they operate, and that is the charge given to them as a quasi-judicial board.
Mr. Maloway: Madam Speaker, we have an example of a house on Scotland Avenue that increased from $21,000 to $65,000 in one day. That is a $44,000 increase.
I would like to know how this could happen and why the minister could sit back and see dozens of these sorts of deals happen over the last year, year and a half, two years, and still do nothing about it.
Mr. Ernst: Madam Speaker, it is not my responsibility to question the value of real estate property in the city of Winnipeg.
Madam Speaker, if there is an impropriety involved in any matter with respect to licensed people regulated by the Manitoba Securities Commission, then evidence should be filed with the Manitoba Securities Commission and the appropriate action will be taken.
Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.
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