ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

Faneuil ISG Inc. Agreement

Michael Bessey Role

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister.

Yesterday, we asked some questions about the transactions between the debt of the Telephone System in terms of notes flowing through to the Manitoba Trading Corporation and flowing through to Faneuil ISG and asked whether the taxpayers would be subject through the Trading Corporation to a $3-million shortfall.

Madam Speaker, the Provincial Auditor's office has said and I quote, that we will have to cough up the $3 million, i.e., the taxpayers, and that we have begun to write off some of that money already in our books.

I would like to ask the Premier whether in fact Mr. Bessey advised the government and cabinet that this would be part of the agreement and why it was not in the original press release.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, the entire process involves many, many elements to it, many of them, if not all of them, of great interest and importance to Manitoba and to its economy.

For instance, during the period of the seven-year agreement with Faneuil, we not only will receive some $18 million in tax revenue, we will receive the entire repayment of the $16-million loan plus interest all the way through the piece. Even though in the first year they only receive $6 million of the debt that is being transferred from MTS, they are paying interest on $16 million. Even though in year two they will only have received $11 million of the debt from MTS, they will be paying interest on $16 million, so the taxpayer receives revenues based on this net present value of the loan in excess of what they would normally receive.

So all of that taken together, plus the fact that there are jobs--240 equivalent full-time jobs, 340 total jobs today--those are people who are paying taxes. We are getting income taxes from those people. We are getting payroll taxes from those people. We are getting sales tax from the goods that Faneuil is buying in Winnipeg. We are getting corporate taxes from all of those things, Madam Speaker. All of those advantages are there as a result of this Faneuil agreement. We believe that the agreement more than compensates the people of Manitoba, the Province of Manitoba.

This is the kind of thing that I would think members opposite ought to be very excited about, to have a thousand jobs created over a seven-year period, to have $18 million of revenue, and all they can do is knock it. All they can do is knock it. That just shows why they are on that side of the House and why they have no credibility with the people of Manitoba.

Due Diligence

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, it is interesting to watch the ethics of members opposite as they clap for an individual who negotiated this agreement and is now getting his tuition paid for by one of the financial principals. The Premier never answered the question about the Auditor's comments today, the Auditor's office, and he obviously could not.

Madam Speaker, my further question is to the Premier. He talked about the due diligence that was conducted on behalf of BCE, Venture, Vision Capital and a number of other venture organizations, all the recipients of the public assets, the data information. The Premier never spoke about the due diligence done by the public who were ordered to sell an asset, i.e., the database, to this new Faneuil ISG through the Manitoba Trading Corporation.

I would like the Premier, on behalf of the public of Manitoba and on behalf of the Crown corporation, the Manitoba Telephone System, to table today the due diligence conducted by the Manitoba Telephone System about why they should sell their data through the Trading Corporation and through over to Faneuil ISG. Could he do that, please?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I indicated to the member opposite that this agreement was the subject of the most extensive due diligence process that has probably ever been conducted--

Some Honourable Members: Table it.

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, I wonder if the members opposite would please indulge me to be able to respond to them.

Madam Speaker, this took place over a period of more than six months. It involved the Economic Development Board. It involved the Department of Industry, Trade and Tourism, the Manitoba Telephone System and six outside private sector firms in the areas of legal, technical and financial concerns, as well as BCE and Vision Capital who are major equity partners in the project. It covered people, corporate finance, auditing, legal, technical, customer satisfaction, personal background checks.

Some of the specific examples I might give him are a review of the business and marketing plans, a review of all the financial statements and pro forma, personal checks on all senior management including RCMP checks and every other type of check, review of the agreements to acquire businesses, review of minute books, review of incorporation documents, interviews with equity investors, reviewing all intellectual properties, rights and issues, review of all technical capabilities.

There was a check and review of client satisfaction through customer contacts, check with the creditors and bankers. It reviewed the banking commitments and the banking documents from a security point of view.

Madam Speaker, I will complete the list as time goes on.

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Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Speaker, rather than take the time in Question Period, I am wondering if the Premier might be prepared to table the document he is referring to, along with the due diligence that we have requested he table as well. That might perhaps enable us to get the information required. Will the Premier please table that information he was reading from?

Mr. Filmon: You asked the question, and I am putting it on the record.

Michael Bessey

Investigation--Terms of Reference

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, the Premier cannot answer the comments of the Auditor's office about a $3-million loss. The Premier cannot table today the due diligence conducted by the Manitoba Telephone System which was the company required by the Filmon government and by Mr. Bessey to sell the data to this organization.

I did not ask the question about people buying it; I am interested in the people who were selling it, that is, the public of Manitoba. You refused to answer that, so just table the due diligence.

My further question is, the Premier has now agreed to hire Mr. Scurfield to investigate the issues raised by Mr. Bessey's tuition fee paid by Mr. Browne, his book advance paid for by Mr. Browne, negotiated apparently at a time when he was still working for the Premier and the people of Manitoba.

I would like to ask the Premier, will Mr. Scurfield be able to examine the broader ethical issues in some of the contracts that were negotiated in Mr. Bessey's capacity working for Industry, Trade and Tourism? Will Mr. Scurfield have broad terms of reference to investigate the arrangements made through the Manitoba Trading Corporation, and will they investigate Mr. Bessey's relationship as a board member on the Faneuil ISG board?

In other words, will the Premier please table today the full terms of reference, and will they please include the deals on one side of the street, as well as the personal arrangements made on the other side of the street?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, Mr. Scurfield will have the latitude to be able to respond to all of the allegations and issues that have been raised by the Leader of the Opposition.

I might say that the Leader of the Opposition gets upset when I give him all of the information that he asked for because he is not interested in the truth, he is not interested in facts. He is only interested in innuendo.

Point of Order

Mr. Doer: On a point of order, the Premier is impugning the motives of members opposite. The truth has been given by the Provincial Auditor's office and it does not coincide with the answers given in this House. I would ask the Premier to withdraw those ridiculous statements.

Madam Speaker: On the Leader of the official opposition's point of order, I did not hear the exact words that the Leader of the official opposition referred to, so as a direct result I will take the matter under advisement and report back to the Chamber, if necessary.

Department of Health

Budget

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, we hear that the government is planning to cut 2 percent of its budget across the board in the next year, and we know the Minister of Health, who has closed 500 beds so far, has adopted the Calgary model of bed closures, and the government is planning to close up to 1,500 beds in Manitoba, including 1,000 in the city of Winnipeg. I will table a government document to that effect. I will table the government document that talks about the bed closures in Winnipeg alone, 1,049 beds.

I would like to ask the Minister of Health, why have you chosen to make your budget cuts on the backs of Manitobans who have already suffered so dramatically as a result of your budget cuts, and will you advise the House today, what is the budget cut in the Department of Health that is being made for next year?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the honourable member talks about a number of things, much of which is preamble in its nature and usually, coming from honourable members opposite, extremely questionable. He makes reference to what he calls the Calgary model when he knows full well that very often we look to what has been happening in our neighbouring province to the west, the province of Saskatchewan, where we will be doing the bed counts, as they are called there, both before they closed 52 rural hospitals and after they closed 52 rural hospitals, so that we can get an idea when we are talking about acute hospital capacity what is going on in places in the rest of the country.

We have heard about Calgary, we have heard about Vancouver, we have heard about Ontario, both before the Bob Rae government and after the Bob Rae government, and what we are trying to achieve is the appropriate mix for Manitoba. These other numbers are interesting and sometimes relevant to the discussion, but the Manitoba demographics have differences from demographics in places like Calgary, for example, where I understand in Manitoba we have an older population. That has to be taken into account, too.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, why is the minister afraid to confirm the figures in his own documents which talk about Calgary and cuts of l,049 beds, and why is he refusing to tell us what the budget cut is in the Department of Health since we know it is going to be at least 2 percent? Will he come clean today and tell us?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, we invited the honourable member to attend the forum discussing secondary and primary health care. I know he was there for some of it, and I know he is a busy fellow like I am and cannot be here for the whole thing, but certainly there are documents that flow from there. The member tables them on a regular basis, so, you know, he is involved in those discussions too.

We appreciate his being part of that and we appreciate his role, and we look forward to constructive input from the honourable member for Kildonan.

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Health Care System

Public Consultations

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, tomorrow at the Holiday Inn South the minister's hand-picked 12 executive committees are going to be making recommendations about the bed closures and the cuts, which include the conversion of Seven Oaks Hospital, the conversion of Misericordia Hospital, the possible transfer of the Children's Hospital to the Grace Hospital, the possible move of the Women's Pavilion to Grace Hospital.

Will the minister advise this House when the public and we in Manitoba will have an opportunity to comment on these changes prior to implementation by him and his executive hand-picked committee, Madam Speaker?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, just two or three days ago, we announced major changes with respect to emergency services and the potential for other change as well. The honourable member would be a witness to the fact that, over three months, there has been nothing but public discussion about emergency services issues.

The honourable member wants to deny the tens of thousands of petitions expressing points of view by members of the public, by newspaper, radio and television coverage of issues related to emergency services, his own part played almost on a daily basis when the House has been in session, Madam Speaker.

There has been plenty of public discussion, and I dare say there will be plenty more as we proceed through changes to improve and make more effective our health care services.

Lord Selkirk School Division

Senior 2 Math Curriculum

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Education.

The minister has received notification that Lord Selkirk School Division has discontinued its participation in the piloting of the new Senior 2 math. Madam Speaker, this is the first time in 20 years of experience in piloting provincial curricula that the school division has taken such a drastic step.

I want to ask the minister to confirm that the reason for this unprecedented disruption of a program is the lack of departmental support and the absence of professional development for teachers in the program.

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, I indicate to the member that I have not received that word. It may have been received in the department and I will certainly check into that when I get back to my office.

But I must indicate to the member, as well, that we have been having ongoing discussions and dialogue with the three organizations of MASS, MAST and MTS concerning implementation of the new blueprint and the Foundations for Excellence. With those organizations, their assistance, we are looking at professional development as one of the many aspects that are being put in place to ensure a good participation and a good understanding of New Directions and Foundations for Excellence.

Professional development, Madam Speaker, is certainly high on our list of priorities and is one we have had many discussions on with the Teachers' Society, the superintendents in particular.

Ms. Friesen: Madam Speaker, well, when the minister goes back to investigate an issue which I think has been on her desk for some time, could she then come back to the House and explain why, given her commitment to professional development, there has been no textbook prepared for this course, there has been no professional development and indeed there have been no support documents prepared for what is a new course, a very important course, Senior 2 math, important to any Minister of Education? Will she investigate that and table a report on that in this House?

(Mr. Marcel Laurendeau, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair)

Mrs. McIntosh: Mr. Deputy Speaker, the member knows that we have several things going on at the moment. We have frameworks for a curriculum development being prepared through the Western Protocol and here in Manitoba. We also have pilot testing going on. We have, as the member should know, testing that has been done for a number of years in various subject areas, and that testing is good preparation in readiness for the testing that will be counted when the pilot status is taken off and permanent implementation occurs.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I repeat again that we have been working with school superintendents, with the Manitoba Teachers' Society and with the school trustees on implementation of testing of new curricula. The matters that she raises as concerns, if they are indeed concerns, I know they have been raised with my staff but have not been raised specifically the way she raises them with me by the major stakeholders with whom I communicate regularly.

Education System

Funding

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think the real issue is evident in the kinds of answers we have had today on that question.

I want the minister to tell the House what the impact of an anticipated 2 percent cut this year in provincial funds to education will be on an education system which faces the rapid introduction of many new curricula, larger classes, fewer teachers, school boundary changes and a continuing decline in financial support from a department which has transformed itself in the history of this government from an educational ally to a bully and which has made--co-operation has gone out the window. This is a department of confrontation, and the result is being seen in the Lord Selkirk School Division.

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Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): I think the member would be well advised to inform herself better before she comes to the House as to what relations are between this department and the field.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, in recent weeks I have met on several occasions with the three organizations I mentioned earlier. We are working together in a very collegial, very co-operative relationship to implement blueprints.

The member shakes her head, no. I suggest she contact the president of the school superintendents association, the president of the Teachers' Society, and the president of the Manitoba Association of School Trustees, who, together with me, have formed an implementation committee to work on the implementation of the blueprints so that it goes smoothly and well.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, her indications of bullying, her assumptions that she already knows the funding for this year when that has not yet been determined are really indicative of the attitude that side of the House brings to this, which is to seek, find and encourage confrontation rather than to seek, find and welcome co-operation, which is our approach.

Her approach has been made very clear; she stands for the status quo, which has not worked in this province, which has much need for improvement. We have been told that by the people clearly and loudly, and so have they.

Pedophiles

Child Abuse Registry

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Mr. Deputy Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Justice.

During the election, the government promised that persons convicted of soliciting sex from child prostitutes would be deemed to be child abusers and treated as such. We look forward to some action.

My question to the minister is, would she explain, if children are indeed so important to this government, why the government has not deemed all convicted pedophiles to be child abusers?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Deputy Speaker, we did make a very serious election promise about how people who deal with child prostitution should in fact be noted as child abusers.

In fact, we have gone further than that with the federal government--have said those people who are procurers of child prostitution, those people who bring young women into prostitution and virtually ruin their lives, should virtually face a life sentence, Mr. Deputy Speaker. So we are working very diligently on this particular issue because we understand, too, that it takes young women and puts them into a life where there are other criminal acts available also.

Mr. Mackintosh: Well, that was not my question. My supplementary, Mr. Deputy Speaker--

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. I would like to remind the honourable member that there is no preamble.

Mr. Mackintosh: Would the minister explain the absurdity that persons only suspected of child abuse, for example, are listed on the Child Abuse Registry, but all convicted pedophiles, proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, are not on that registry?

Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Deputy Speaker, as the member knows we have a Child and Youth Secretariat. We have an opportunity now to co-operate through a very formal vehicle, the Department of Justice, the Department of Family Services, the Department of Education and the Department of Health. We are always interested in looking at examining ways to make Manitoba safer.

Community Notification

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Mr. Deputy Speaker, despite the highly touted notification committee of the minister's creation, will the minister explain why, in this justice system that purposely sends dangerous people back into the community, she has not ensured public notification about convicted pedophiles, people who are not in positions of responsibility for their victims through the Child Abuse Registry which is a proven long-term notification for schools and child care centres?

Will she bring in the needed changes? If not, we will.

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Deputy Speaker, the community notification committee is the only one of its kind in this country. It is a model across this country.

The member seems confused. Somehow he has the idea that it is this committee which releases people. The release is when a person has served their full sentence. This government has asked for a long-term tracking system from the federal government. That has not yet been granted. So this government took it upon itself to make Manitoba safer and to put in place a process where there was considered a risk that that person might re-offend, to make sure that the community in Manitoba would know who that person was and could protect themselves.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, the member across the way has continually been critical of the community notification committee in saying that it is simply not the answer. Well, we believe the safety of Manitobans is the answer.

Health Sciences Centre

Emergency Services--Capacity

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Deputy Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

The emergency services working group detailed in a news release an opinion that would have seen yet another community hospital, either the Seven Oaks or Concordia Hospital, close its emergency services.

Can the Minister of Health indicate whether or not the Health Sciences Centre emergency services has the capability and capacity to be able to service north end residents if you closed not only the Misericordia Hospital emergency services but also the Seven Oaks Hospital? Does the Health Sciences Centre have the capacity to do that?

Mr. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Mr. Deputy Speaker, the honourable member will recall a couple of days ago the announcement I made respecting emergency services. I would remind him also that the emergency services team recommended that there, in future, be five emergency rooms in addition to Children's Hospital operating in the city of Winnipeg, two of them at the tertiary centres of Health Sciences Centre and St. Boniface Hospital and three community hospitals, one of them in north Winnipeg.

The honourable member knows all that and I know all that and that is as much as I can tell him today because there is more work to be done before further decisions are made.

Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Deputy Speaker, can the Minister of Health assure north end residents and inner city residents that in fact the Health Sciences Centre would have the capacity to be able to service emergency services needs just through the Health Sciences Centre? Is that possible?

Mr. McCrae: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think I answered the question last time in saying that the recommendation is that we need, in addition to Children's Hospital, the services of the two tertiary hospitals and three community hospitals in the city, one of those three being in north Winnipeg.

Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Deputy Speaker, then can the Minister of Health confirm for the House, if he can, is Misericordia used at times as a hospital? If emergency services are at capacity at Health Sciences Centre, do they in fact divert patients from emergency services at the Health Sciences Centre to Misericordia, currently or in the past?

Mr. McCrae: Well, prior to the strike, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Misericordia Hospital emergency room was a 24-hour operation. During the strike, its daytime operations were curtailed--or carried on by staff that we could make available in light of the fact we had a strike.

Since the strike was over, the emergency services of Misericordia were kept closed down during the night. However, Misericordia Hospital was used as an overflow for Health Sciences Centre and St. Boniface Hospital. We are glad they were there. They were not used very many times, but they were indeed used.

Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the arrangement is that Misericordia Hospital emergency room will remain closed at nighttime. We now have the additional capacity of four community hospitals added to the two tertiary centres in the interim period, later to be reduced to three.

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Justice System

Northern Court

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Mr. Deputy Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Justice.

Why is this government breaking yet another major recommendation of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, page 227, by moving the court from Lac Brochet to Lynn Lake, over 200 kilometres away by air, when the residents will be forced to spend hundreds of dollars to travel to Lynn Lake, only, in many cases, to be remanded?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Deputy Speaker, as the member knows, we have been working on a strategy for northern courts. That strategy has been a co-operative strategy. It has had the judges of the Provincial Court, it has had the legal community and local communities involved.

A number of steps have been taken in order to attempt to improve the service in the northern part of Manitoba.

Mr. Jennissen: Mr. Deputy Speaker, my final supplementary question to the same minister is: Since the purpose of the justice system is to have a culturally sensitive legal system that can be respected by the communities affected, especially First Nations communities, will this minister agree that the needs and realities of life in northern Manitoba must come before the convenience of a court party?

Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am sure the member is acquainted with a number of the initiatives which we have put forward in order to deal with culturally sensitive issues.

I will point to the Magistrates Court, the pilot project in the community of Gods Lake Narrows, Cross Lake and Norway House in which we have Cree-speaking magistrates who are holding courts in those communities once a month. We also are attempting then to--[interjection]

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am surprised at the other side. They were asking for the initiatives which have been put forward which are culturally sensitive to communities in the North, so I am attempting to provide a number of the initiatives which have been put in place with co-operation of the communities, and also which are culturally sensitive and in fact are a very co-operative movement in northern communities.

Hog Industry

Marketing System

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Mr. Deputy Speaker, this government has based their recommendation to move to dual marketing hogs on a report that we feel was prepared by a biased group and by one that stands to gain from recommendation of the report to move to dual marketing. But there were many other recommendations in the report, for example, to establish an independent livestock operations review panel, more information to educate councillors.

Why did this government move on the one recommendation to go to dual marketing of hogs and not address all the other recommendations, such as educating councillors, environmental issues? In whose interests are they acting? Why are they moving to dual marketing now when they are not addressing all the other issues?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Acting Minister of Agriculture): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think if the member looks back in Hansard, she will find that question has been answered several times by the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns). I will take the specifics as notice on behalf of the minister, but I would recommend she read Hansard.

Ms. Wowchuk: Then I want to ask this government as well, since he said he is going to put in place a committee that will deal with the move to dual marketing, why he is not also acting on the recommendation that says to put in place a committee to co-ordinate education and training related to the pork industry? Why are they rushing on the one to move to dual marketing but not addressing the very important issue of education and training for producers? Why? In whose interests are they acting to move to dual marketing right now and ignoring all the other issues?

Mr. Findlay: Mr. Deputy Speaker, again, if the member checks the record, she will find that the Department of Agriculture and the minister have been deeply involved in developing guidelines for the pork industry with the involvement of councillors, through UMM. It has been an ongoing project to serve the needs of the councillors.

Provincial Roads

Maintenance

Mr. Clif Evans (Interlake): Mr. Deputy Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Highways.

The Minister of Highways has maintained the responsibility for provincial road maintenance for many years. It now appears, however, that the Department of Highways and the minister are in the process of planning to contract out road maintenance operations to the rural municipalities.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, such a change, a dramatic shift in policy, without proper consultation with the municipalities has caused confusion and will also cause hardship for many of these municipalities, if implemented.

Will the minister tell this House, if he has not consulted with the municipalities, whom did he consult with in order to develop these proposals, since prior to a meeting on December 6, they failed to discuss this proposal with the municipalities and with UMM? Whom did he discuss this with?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think that member was present at the UMM convention in Brandon, and I believe I mentioned to him at that convention that I had meetings over two days with 35 different municipalities or delegations of municipalities. Sometimes three and four municipalities at a time were in each meeting. Each meeting was a half hour where I asked them if they were interested in taking over the gravel road maintenance, summer and winter, and the common reply was, that makes all kinds of common sense.

So because of that response, because of that consultation, we are now in a process through UMM and the councils at arriving at what we would call a reasonable tariff to pay for that maintenance activity, but I want to remind the member, this has had consultation of an incredible extent.

Mr. Clif Evans: Mr. Deputy Speaker, how can this minister say what he has just said?

Will the minister confirm that not even the executive and the president of UMM knew about this proposal that he was telling different municipalities during his meeting, when municipalities that attended meetings with him from my constituency were not told anything? How can he say that?

Mr. Findlay: Mr. Deputy Speaker, if the member wants to calm down, I will remind him that I met with 35 delegations. I mentioned it to every delegation that came in. I asked them, are they interested in taking over the maintenance on some kind of contractual arrangement? I said, my door is open to discussion on that. They responded on a continuous basis.

It made all kinds of common sense because they have the equipment. They are doing 80 or 90 percent of the roads in the area anyway. They are closer to the constituents they are serving. It is a greater degree of efficiency; it reduces overlap and duplication in the provision of those kinds of services.

The department is in the process of following up on that initial demonstration of high level of interest, very high level of interest, on behalf of municipalities.

I have talked with UMM. I have talked to the president. I told him that his municipalities are interested. He said, that is very good, proceed.

Real Estate Industry

Fraud Investigation

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Mr. Deputy Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Consumer Affairs.

Two days ago the Minister of Consumer Affairs stated that his department had known about this house-flipping ring for over a year, a year and a half, and he did not think any action was needed until the RCMP completes their investigation, which could take months and months from now.

Now, given that the ring continues to operate to this day and over a hundred families in this city have been conned by this scam at a loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars, why will this minister not act now to protect homeowners?

Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Deputy Speaker, the other day when the member raised this issue, I told him that it was uncovered by the investigation unit of the Manitoba Securities Commission.

They were the ones who found out it was going on, not the member across the way and not the newspaper. It was the officials from the Manitoba Securities Commission who discovered that this particular activity was going on. They raised it with CMHC, who is the offended party in this instance.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, they have turned the matter over to the RCMP, and the RCMP is investigating the situation. When and if there are charges laid and evidence available to be able to determine what courses of action to take, we will take those actions.

Mr. Maloway: Mr. Deputy Speaker, my supplementary question to the same minister is this: Since the minister now admits that the government knew about this scam over a year ago--

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. I would like to remind the honourable member that there is no preamble necessary.

The honourable member, to pose his question now.

Mr. Maloway: Why did they not act on affidavits submitted to his department last summer from at least two homeowners who were ripped off in this scam?

I have copies of these affidavits here.

Mr. Ernst: Mr. Deputy Speaker, that is exactly what the Manitoba Securities Commission did do. They investigated and that is how they found out about it.

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Louisiana-Pacific

Timber Allocation

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Mr. Deputy Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Environment.

This government has committed 900,000 cubic metres of forest per year to Louisiana-Pacific. Federal departments and staff of the Department of Natural Resources have stated that the calculation of 900,000 cubic metres is inaccurate, yet any withdrawals from this number will put the province on the hook for over $80 million.

Over a year ago this minister's own environmental council stated in their report to this minister that the capacity of the Louisiana-Pacific plant appears to be over twice the annual allowable cut for the area.

My question to the minister is this: Why did he choose to ignore the recommendations from his own environmental council, knowing that inaccurate calculations of the AAC could result in huge compensation costs to the Manitoba taxpayer?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): First of all, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we will never ignore advice and always make sure that we get the best possible information in terms of decision making, as does the Ministry of Natural Resources. Unfortunately, what the member for Dauphin is ignoring is that there is an awful lot of difference in the harvestable quantity available when we are looking at the harvesting of aspen.

Mr. Struthers: I want to make it clear, this is his own committee that we are talking about.

When his council stated a year ago that either prime nontimber values will be threatened or some additional land should be subject to withdrawal, thus once again affecting sustained yield calculations, why did this minister not warn his government about the problems with the AAC calculations that would cost the taxpayers millions of dollars in compensation?

Mr. Cummings: Well, frankly, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the assumptions of the member are wrong. The information has been reviewed and, as I have said on several occasions, not only is it reviewed by Natural Resources and the experts in that department, but in the second sense, the harvesting processes are screened through the environmental process. This is a very carefully managed resource and will not be put at risk.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Time for Oral Questions has expired.

NONPOLITICAL STATEMENTS

Condolences--John George Sioux

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Mr. Deputy Speaker, may I have leave to make a nonpolitical statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable member for Rupertsland have leave for a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Robinson: Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is with regret that I rise today and, on behalf of the official opposition, extend our sincere condolences to the Sioux Family of Sioux Valley Dakota First Nation in southwestern Manitoba. The passing of John George Sioux on December 11, a couple of days ago, indeed left a vacuum in the First Nations community of this province.

Mr. Sioux was not only a credit to First Nations people but indeed to all Canadians. He served in World War II. He served in France, Belgium and also in Holland during the Second World War. He also served in the Second Division of the Essex Scottish Regiment, and while on active duty, he was wounded in action. As well, he was a prisoner of war from 1943 to 1946 in Hong Kong. He served as chief and councillor for the Sioux Valley First Nation for many, many years, and he was one of the leaders in the Manitoba Indian Brotherhood, the forerunner to the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs.

It is indeed with deep regret that I make this statement in the House today. I would like to extend our extreme and most sincere condolences to his wife, Elizabeth, and members of his family and also to the leadership of the Sioux Valley First Nation, Chief Ron Hall and the other councillors.

Again, the First Nations community has indeed lost a very dear man, a very beloved man and a man who provided a lot of guidance and direction to people like the member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) and myself. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Nonfiction Contest--

Winnipeg Free Press/Canadian Authors Association

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I seek leave to make a nonpolitical statement.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable member for Flin Flon have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Jennissen: Mr. Deputy Speaker, this year's nonfiction contest award winner of the Winnipeg Free Press/Canadian Authors Association, Manitoba Branch, nonfiction contest was Mr. Dale Seddon of Leaf Rapids.

Mr. Dale Seddon won the contest with a superb story entitled How to Tie Your Shoe Laces. It was published in the Free Press last Tuesday. I recommend all honourable members read this delightful and poignant story. All Manitobans, and especially northern Manitobans, should be proud of the literary talent of Mr. Seddon.

I am privileged to be acquainted with Mr. Seddon, and on behalf of all members here, I wish him and his family well. Above all else, Dale, keep on writing. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Street Proofing Our Kids Seminars

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): May I have leave to make a nonpolitical statement, please?

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable member for Transcona have leave to make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Reid: Mr. Deputy Speaker, the safety of our children is, and should be, of concern to all citizens. There are many hazards and dangers in our society for our children, both human and other dangers. Parents cannot be with their children at all times. Street proofing our children is an important part of ensuring their safety.

Between Sunday, December 17 and Wednesday, December 20 there will be six Street Proofing Our Kids seminars held in Winnipeg schools and youth drop-in centres. It is anticipated that approximately 100 people will attend each session. Three of the sessions will be for children nine to 13 years of age, two for youths between 13 and 18 years of age and one to acquaint adults with the program. Parents of children taking street proofing sessions are being encouraged to attend the same seminar as their children.

This Street Proofing Our Kids program is sponsored by the City of Winnipeg and the United Food and Commercial Workers Union and will be of great assistance in making our children and the family safer, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

We would like to congratulate and recognize Carol Walaschuk of the City of Winnipeg, Bernard Christophe and Don Keith of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union, and Frank Olson, an instructor who will be assisting in the program. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Condolences--John George Sioux

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would like leave to make a nonpolitical statement.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Is there leave for the honourable Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism to do a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Downey: Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would like to acknowledge and thank the member for Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson) for bringing to the attention of the Assembly the loss of Mr. John George Sioux, but I would like to as well, as the member for the area of which Mr. Sioux lived, acknowledge his contribution not only to his people but to the people of Canada and to Manitoba in his wartime service.

I can tell you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that anyone who has been part of a prisoner-of-war camp has certainly had extreme difficulties, but to come back and to show the leadership and be part of our community is to be commended.

I, too, want to extend my sympathy to his wife, Elizabeth and family. Thank you.