Madam Speaker: Order, please. The hour being 5 p.m. and time for Private Members' Business.
"WHEREAS Manitoba is one of the most dynamic provinces in Canada for pork production; and
"WHEREAS Manitoba has some of the most aggressive and successful pork producers in all of Canada; and
"WHEREAS more than 12,000 Manitobans are employed in the production, processing, transportation and distribution of pork products; and
"WHEREAS in 1990 there were 2,042,800 hogs marketed in Manitoba and by 1996 an estimated 3,082,000 were marketed, an increase of 50%; and
"WHEREAS with every additional 1,000 hogs that are produced and processed in Manitoba we gain six more jobs; and
"WHEREAS exports of Manitoba pork and pork by-products have nearly tripled from $29 million in 1991 to $82 million in 1995 with exports destined to over 30 countries worldwide; and
"WHEREAS for more than 10 years, Manitoba pork has earned the highest average rating under Canada's national carcass grading system, which measures the meat yield content of each carcass.
"THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Provincial Government continue on its present course of building the best possible environment for stable, long-term development of this industry in Manitoba and maintain a leadership role in this important value-added industry."
Motion presented.
Mr. Sveinson: Madam Speaker, looking back over the last couple of years and knowing the things that have transpired then and now and you can see into the future, I would say that many of us, if not all of us, are somewhat envious of the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns), envious for this reason, that the exciting, the very exciting things that are happening and are going to happen in agriculture are really exciting.
When we look at things like the elk ranching, agrifood industry that has been started, the entrepreneurial spirit that is happening in Manitoba in regard to agrifood industries, when we look at the hog industry and the expansion of the hog industry in Manitoba, it is really quite extraordinary. Our government believes Manitoba is ideally situated to capitalize on an expansion of the hog industry. With the end of the Crow rate, Manitoba farmers have been diversifying their operations. The Manitoba pork industry has become very aggressive over the last few years. This attitude is clearly illustrated by the leadership taken in the industry in being the first province to implement a flexible hog marketing system.
A further indication of this aggressive attitude is with the joint government and industry initiative called the Manitoba Pork Advantage. This collaborate effort by all parties involved in this industry highlighted the achievements and the advantages of pork production in Manitoba. The Manitoba Pork Advantage also laid out clear plans for the future direction of the hog industry.
Madam Speaker, the industry infrastructure in Manitoba is of the highest quality. The infrastructure includes world-class expertise in construction, equipment manufacturing and feed company knowledge and leadership. Yes, Manitoba has seen tremendous growth in hog production over the past few years. By all indication, this trend will continue into the future. From January 1 to December 31, 1996, there was a total of 16,826 new sow places, actual and under construction. Between January 1 and December 31 of 1996, there was the construction of new grower finisher barns that would produce 207,350 new pigs. If all the weaners from the actual new sow places, assuming 20 weaners per sow, were grown out in Manitoba, in 1997 we would see an actual additional 336,520 hogs marketed.
An Honourable Member: That is a lot of weaners.
Mr. Sveinson: Yes, it certainly is. On top of this, if it were possible to keep all of the live, finished hogs in Manitoba that are presently exported to the United States, there would be an additional 690,000 hogs available. Finally, if all the weanlings that are presently exported to the United States stayed in Manitoba to be finished, another 425,000 hogs would be available.
Manitoba is indeed poised to become the Canadian leader in hog production and processing. The Manitoba Pork Advantage is a hog production and marketing program sponsored by government and industry. It highlights the natural and economic advantage of producing high quality pork in the province for the global marketplace. Its aim is to increase export sales and investments in our province's growing pork industry. Manitoba is building the best possible environment for stable, long-term development including a flexible marketing system, competitive tax regime and strong infrastructure.
Madam Speaker, higher profit potential is one of the main reasons for the rapid expansion of our pork industry. Our province is one of the most cost-effective sites in Canada for hog production. Reasonable land costs, lower manure disposal costs, modern efficient production practices, knowledgeable producers, favourable tax environment and abundant grain supplies--all of these factors are contributing to the growth we have seen.
As I noted, Manitoba pork has earned the highest average rating under Canada's national carcass grading system which measures the meat yield content of each carcass. Our producers have shown themselves willing to develop a product geared toward consumer preferences. At both the production and processing levels the industry is continually working towards new, unique products and the colour and the carcass size favoured by today's markets.
Approximately 25 percent of all pork exports are bound for destinations outside of Canada. In fact, our high quality pork is consumed in over 30 countries worldwide. There exists a tremendous opportunity for further expansion. The Minister of Agriculture and a delegation of representatives from the pork industry, including J. M. Schneider, Manstock International Ltd., CIBC and Manitoba Pork, went to Asia last fall to further promote our products. This delegation went to areas such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong. Recent events in Taiwan since the suspension of all exports of domestically produced meat products offers Manitoba producers an excellent opportunity to move in and offer their services.
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Members opposite did not agree with our decision to move to a dual marketing system for hogs. They predicted dire consequences as a result, but, Madam Speaker, nothing could be farther from the truth. Manitoba Pork continues to provide leadership in market and industry development activities that benefit all producers. These activities are funded by a levy on all hogs marketed from Manitoba.
Consumer demand is an ever-changing component of any industry. Our pork industry required a greater range of marketing options. This government was the first government in Canada to meet this need by moving to a more open and flexible marketing system. In other Canadian provinces the industry had no choice but to buy and sell through a provincial marketing board.
In Manitoba, producers and processors can enter into direct agreements and contracts, or they can buy and sell through Manitoba Pork. This flexibility allows our pork industry to respond to market forces quickly and efficiently, ensuring that Manitoba can supply the type of produce the world demands and when it demands it. This system is part of this government's commitment to pork industry growth.
Madam Speaker, a key advantage of our pork producers lies in Manitoba's strategic location. This advantage continues to be developed through initiatives such as Winnport, something my honourable colleague for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine) so eloquently put forward during his recent resolution. Our central location in North America means that there are only approximately 300 kilometres further to Tokyo from Winnipeg than from Los Angeles. Our Central time zone is another competitive advantage for pork exporters. From our province companies can contact customers and suppliers anywhere in North America across five time zones within normal business hours.
Our province is a crucial link in a major trade corridor running from Manitoba through the Midwest United States and into Mexico. Indeed, Winnipeg is a busy hub of major air, rail and road networks and within one day's trucking of 80 million people. Winnipeg also has the only international airport between Toronto and Calgary, and one of the few on the continent operating 24 hours a day. Today there are approximately 2,000 hog operations in Manitoba. There are a good number of those in my constituency.
Yes, the pork industry generates some 12 percent of all farm income and contributes more than $1 billion to our economy. One of our greatest assets is the vast amounts of land available for pork industry expansion. There are more than five million hectares suitable for agricultural production. Our province has sufficient land for expansion of hog facilities and environmentally sound manure disposal. Because of this large land base our manure disposal costs are low compared to other intensive hog-producing nations.
Madam Speaker, our province has set the stage for responsible, long-term expansion by taking a proactive approach to hog production issues. Government and industry have worked together to develop a practical set of guidelines, regulations and services to protect the environment and the long-term viability of the industry.
Our government's practical and proactive approach to sustainable development will ensure that Manitoba's pork industry remains competitive and growing long into the future. I believe that our government, with its progressive agricultural policies and strong leadership, is set to meet the target for annual production of four million hogs.
Members opposite, I am sure, have some comments to put on the record, but before they do I would encourage them to show their support for this resolution. The goal of this resolution is that the provincial government continue on its present course of building the best possible environment for stable, long-term development of this industry in Manitoba and maintain a leadership role in this important value-added industry.
This resolution allows members opposite to reaffirm their support of Manitoba's pork industry. Thank you.
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, I want to assure you that we do affirm our support for the Manitoba pork industry. We stood by the Manitoba pork industry when they asked the government not to change their single-desk selling component, and the government refused to listen to them. So I can assure you we are very much in support of the industry and we want to see the industry grow, but not the way this government is dictating it will grow.
Now, the member talks about wanting to see the industry double, and the minister has said that on many occasions he wants to see the industry double by the year 2000. Well, the industry doubled over the years when there was a demand; and, when the hog producers saw demand, they doubled the industry and they met the needs of the market. It does not take for a government to say we want to double the industry. It takes for the market to be there. Certainly, there is a role for the government to develop markets and ensure that things are in place, but the government does not have to dictate that the industry will be doubled.
I want to share with you some of the comments that have been made by people in the industry, and those are the people whom we should be listening to as we work towards building the industry. In December of 1994, at Manitoba Hog Days, Ken Foster, chairman of Manitoba Pork, stated that, although the hog business is a growth industry, processors felt growth must be achieved in a responsible and planned manner. The difficulty he said, and I quote, is that none of the double-your-production figure spinners have shown how this growth will occur and what effect it will have on the independent producers, processors and industry overall. That is the concern of the producers, and that is, as I say, whom we should be listening to.
So, despite the fact that the wishes of the producers, a new marketing board regulation was introduced in 1996 and the single-desk selling component of Manitoba Pork was changed, this despite the fact that producers during the 1995 election were told that they would be consulted on any decision to change the hog marketing regulations. They would be consulted by the Minister of Agriculture, but this government and the Minister of Agriculture failed to do that. Producers are very concerned. They feel that this move will benefit big operations and that the smaller operations will be the ones that will be the losers, and there is a move towards vertical integration of the hog industry.
The member across the way talked about all the benefits and how great it was going in the hog industry. Well, I want to share with you, Madam Speaker, what the producers--and, again, as I say, this is whom we should be listening to--a dual market for slaughtered hogs has cost producers millions of dollars in lower market returns and higher levies last year according to Manitoba Pork. A widening price gap between Manitoba and U.S. markets results from the open marketing system lowering producers' returns by $7 million in 1996. That is what Manitoba Pork is telling us what has happened as a result of this change to an open market.
The new system also forces producers who sell hogs through the board to pay a $1 levy a hog more in levies. The figures were discussed at district meetings this spring leading up to Manitoba Pork's annual meeting in Winnipeg. Mr. Chabidon says the price difference between Winnipeg and Omaha increased by $4.33 per 100 kilograms in 1996. This works out to $3.50 per hog. According to the board, Madam Speaker, the 1996 average Omaha price was $200.58 compared to Manitoba's average price of $180.58 per 100 kilograms. Manitoba's prices are historically lower than Omaha's, but not to this extent. The wide price gap translates to lower returns of $7.3 million based on 2.085 million hogs sold through the board in 1996.
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He goes on to say that the widening price gap between the two markets was the result of Manitoba Pork's inability to negotiate better formula prices with the province's four major pork packers in 1996. The processors felt less pressure to negotiate with the board because they saw the opportunity to buy the hogs directly from the producers later in the year. This government, Madam Speaker, has stripped the hog board of its central-desk selling monopoly and replaced it with an open market system that has had a negative impact on producers.
We can hear this flowery resolution saying how great it is for producers and how we want the industry to grow, but who we should be thinking about is the producers, the people at the grassroots who are the ones who do the work, and look at what returns they are getting. As a result of changes that this government has made, producers have less money in their pockets.
An Honourable Member: You are wrong.
Ms. Wowchuk: I hear the member across the way saying I am wrong. I would invite him to go to Manitoba Pork and talk to them. I would invite him to talk to Manitoba producers and look at their bottom line and see what they have gotten. The new system is costing board customers more in levies and board maintenance. The new universal levy charges producers $1 per hog whether the animal is sold on board or off board. The money goes to development and marketing research. In addition, Manitoba Pork charges a floating levy of over $1 per head of administration. So, Madam Speaker, what this government has done is put additional costs on and has taken away the ability of Manitoba Pork to bargain in the best interests of the producers.
We do want to see the pork industry grow in this province. We want to see it grow in a sustainable way. We want to see the producers get a fair return for their product. We do not want to see the producers at the mercy of the feed producers and see control shift over to other people rather than people have control of their own destiny.
As this industry grows--and it will grow in this province--we have to ensure that it is being done sustainably. We have to look at where the farms are being built, and there has to be a plan in place to ensure that when future generations come along, we do not sacrifice our environment at their expense.
In the Interlake region--and my colleague from the Interlake (Mr. Clif Evans) will speak on this, I am sure, when he has the opportunity--there is a problem with water. The same applies in many areas, so there has to be a plan in place to ensure, and the government has to have some control on this, that we do not just say--there are barns being built in sensitive water areas. We have to be sure that the process--there is a lot of waste from these--that we have a proper management of these wastes. The larger the operation becomes the bigger the problem of waste becomes. There has to be a plan in place as to how this will be addressed.
As with any industry that grows, there are challenges. That is why we have to be sure that there is long-term planning in this. I want to refer to an article that I saw in a magazine that talks about the hog industry in North Carolina. In North Carolina, where there are very large operations, very serious problems have developed with how they are managing the waste. I urge the government, as they go along this path to increase the hog industry and as the industry grows to meet the market demands, that we have in place the safeguards to ensure that we do not run into the same kind of problems that we read about happening in other parts of the country.
Certainly we are located in a geographical region that offers us the opportunity to access markets very well, and it will be a real opportunity if the industry grows and we meet those market demands and get fair return for producers. But as I say, we have to do a lot of things. It has to be the producers who are involved. We have to ensure that it is the producers that are getting a fair return for the product. It makes no sense to put up these factory barns where hundreds of hogs are processed through there, thousands of hogs, but the people who work in those barns are working for minimum wages and the profits are being siphoned off somewhere else.
As I have said many times, to build a solid, sustainable community we have to have good wages in those communities, and people have to get a fair return for their work.
I think that the member in his resolution should have addressed some of those issues. Instead of just putting forward a flowery resolution that once again praises the government for what they are doing, what he should have been doing is encouraging his government to be sure that they address these issues, issues that will affect your community and mine. We have to ensure that there are guidelines in place, and there is a provincial plan in place that these hog barns do not just go up helter-skelter across the province without a plan. There has to be a very good plan in place as to how we are going to manage all of this waste, because the waste produced from hogs is in huge volumes.
Madam Speaker, I have to agree with the member that we do want to see the industry grow, but I would have to disagree with him on his comments that he made that his government's changes to Manitoba Pork and a move away from single-desk selling has been beneficial to producers, because it has not. It has cost them more money, and it is very clear that producers want Manitoba's pork to stay in place.
We saw this year that there was a problem with negotiating, and in fact contracts have not been negotiated with all of the processors here in the province. We do not want to see hogs flowing out of this province at the rate they are, hogs going down to the States to be processed. We could be processing them here. There is work that can be done on that. To say that we will just produce all of these hogs and we are going to have them processed here is not going to happen. We are producing them now. They are leaving the province.
There are very serious challenges facing this industry. As I say, we want to see the industry grow, but we want to see it done in a sustainable way. I have to say that we are in complete disagreement with the government when they say that what they have done is right.
The outflow of hogs from the province in the last year has hurt the packing industry. At this time last year packers were running as low as 70 percent of capacity because of heavy exports. We cannot afford to have those heavy exports going out of the country, but the province has forced these heavy exports to happen because of changing away from single-desk selling. We have moved to a system where they have the ability to negotiate price. All are not being treated fairly. When there was single-desk selling they worked together and negotiated one contract, and it was fair for producers. As I say, as a rural representative, I want to see the best possible return for producers, and I want to see a sustainable community. What this government has done has resulted in contracts not being negotiated.
Again I want to say that the industry can grow, but we cannot just say, yes, the industry is going to grow because the Minister of Agriculture has said it will grow. The industry will grow because the demands are there, and I encourage the government to look for markets, work with the industry in that aspect, but also be sure that what we are doing is sustainable and that we are not having one industry grow at the expense of other people. We do need to have cattle and livestock industries. Because of changes to the Crow, we have to look at other ways to use the grain that is growing in this country, but we have to also ensure again that it is the producers who have the benefit and that it is in the best interests of the people in the rural community. I would not want to see people having hog barns, then making a very small amount of money from the hogs that they produce and have it being that it is the feed companies who are reaping the real benefits of this. That is not what I would like to see.
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So certainly, we want the government to continue to build the industry and create an environment that is stable and have long-term development but also address all the other issues and also revisit their decision to move away from single-desk selling because that is not what the producers wanted.
So, Madam Speaker, with those words I must say that I want to commend the pork producers for the work they have done to build the industry in this province.
Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, some things certainly never change, and when a socialist takes up a position it is hard to move them off that position. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, my honourable friends opposite refuse to look at what is happening in the hog industry in the province of Manitoba and stick to the party line that they have so firmly wrapped themselves up with.
Madam Speaker, I will comment on some of the items that you referred to from the last Manitoba cooperators with respect to comments that were made attributed to representatives of Manitoba Pork.
Firstly, let me acknowledge and thank my colleague, my good friend and colleague from La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson), for presenting this resolution. It is a timely resolution, one that needs to be debated in this Chamber from time to time. Too often agricultural issues do not get an opportunity to be taken seriously in this Chamber, and I am delighted to have the opportunity to add a few words to this debate.
You know, Madam Speaker, the issue that sometimes does legitimately come forward is why is it that the government has an interest in expanding hog production in the province of Manitoba? Let me agree with her 100 percent. I do not expect any hog producer to increase his hog production because I, as minister, said he ought to, or that the Department of Agriculture said he ought to, or that the government says he ought to. They should only be making that decision if the right market decisions or market signals are there, if the right conditions apply, if the right climate is there that leads them to believe that hog production is a sound investment, a sound opportunity for them to be engaged in. That is when they should be making decisions with respect to increasing hog production in the province, and that is exactly what is happening.
I know that in broad statements we have talked about the doubling of hog production, and it is happening. Since 1950, in a short 45 years, we have increased our hog production by 50 percent, and there is no abating of that expansion taking place. I am pleased to note that it is taking place in all parts of the province, in parts of the province that heretofore there had not been that much hog production. So let us lay that to rest. It is happening. If the honourable member who speaks so eloquently on behalf of Manitoba Pork, and I have the greatest respect for Manitoba Pork--I issued them a challenge. I told them to become the marketers of choice, and they have done just that and have done it very well, and are marketing 80, 85 percent of all the hogs that are marketed in the province of Manitoba without the heavy arm of government saying to every producer you must, you shall, the penalty of the law. I mean, that is not how you build loyalty to a marketing organization. So let that be put on the record.
Secondly, if she checks her annual record, Manitoba Pork has never had more financial resources at hand than they have today, as printed in their annual report. So where is the doom? Where is the gloom? Where is the despair that was uttered by honourable members opposite six or eight or 10 or 12 months ago when some greater flexibility was introduced into the marketing of hogs in Manitoba?
Madam Speaker, I am very interested in some of the comments by Manitoba Pork. I, as the honourable member, attended a very successful annual meeting of the hog producers and the pork industry in the city here just a week ago, I believe. I must say, I appreciate that I was hospitably received, and I would expect nothing less from farmers and farming producers. They are always, even though they do not always agree with one, are always hospitable and generous in their treatment of persons who from time to time may take a position that is not always in total agreement with theirs. But I enjoyed myself very much during that evening, and I was granted the opportunity of saying a few words. The honourable member, who was in the audience, will recall that.
Interesting, I find, but she did not raise, because that has been a decade-long point of irritation between the Manitoba hog producers, the price differential between Manitoba and Toronto, Winnipeg and Toronto. That is not even referred to in that article, because there is virtually no price differential now as a result of the changes made to the market structure. The article refers, and I have to take task, I want to have a chat with the gentleman that makes it, he compares the losses to Omaha. Well, Madam Speaker, why not to Copenhagen, Denmark? The loss probably would have been $11 million or $12 million. We do not ship hogs to Omaha, and that is the issue. We ship hogs to Toronto, we ship hogs to Sioux Falls; 700, 800 miles is about the outer limits that you can ship live animals to economically. So let us talk about that.
Now on the question about me having imposed a greater cost to the hog producers with the universal levy, a dollar, I am going to take that very, very seriously. I think it is too high. I think it ought to be 50 cents, and I am going to make recommendations to the Manitoba Marketing Council to reduce that to 50 cents because I do not want to, by my action, add any unnecessary administrative costs that would make our hogs less competitive anywhere in the world. Upon examination of the books, of the monies that are being collected under this fund, I happen to think that a more modest general levy is called for. After all, we are now marketing upwards to three million hogs, Madam Speaker. That is $3 million that goes to Manitoba Pork as a result of the universal levy. They have to show me that they need those kinds of dollars or else I will strongly recommend that we reduce that levy to 50 cents. I think that is something worthwhile that I will take from the honourable member's contribution this afternoon, and certainly challenge Manitoba Pork and my department to see whether or not that is not a reasonable thing to do.
Now, I am not particularly happy that the significant number of hogs, whether they are weanlings or whether they are finished hogs, are leaving the province for processing elsewhere, but Manitoba Pork--honourable members want to be very careful how they want to pursue this. I would assume, certainly, talking to people, talking to Mr. Gary Friesen, the reason why Manitoba Pork is sending hogs to Sioux Falls is because they are getting more dollars for them. I, like her, do not expect my hog producers to get anything less per hog than the market will command. I have no quarrel with it, and I have not offered one slightest bit of criticism to Manitoba Pork for shipping live hogs that are not being processed and adding value and providing jobs in Manitoba, going to the United States, to Sioux Falls.
Madam Speaker, what does that say, though, about the 22 years, 25 years that we were operating under the single-selling desk? Does she mean to tell me that that was costing? If they are going to Sioux Falls for a $6 or $7 or $8 premier hog, does it cost the Manitoba hog producers $7, $8 a hog for 22 years under the single-selling desk because hogs were not sent down there? The honourable member knows very well there were few of the larger, few of the bigger operators, Elite and them, they were shipping hogs to Burlington, Ontario for a premium, they were shipping hogs to the United States for a premium, but Manitoba Pork was not.
Now, Manitoba Pork is shipping hogs to Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Why? Because they get a better price. That is a challenge to our processors, and I have talked to our processors. I told the processors who were present at that meeting, roll up your sleeves. If you want to process the finest hogs on the North American continent, which we in Manitoba have, then you are going to have to buy them, you are going to have to meet the competition. That is exactly what is happening.
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Even more important than all of that, and that is really the issue that I wanted to speak to, because people do sometimes write me letters, often they are people from the city of Winnipeg who are concerned, as we all should be concerned, about the environmental issues involved in hog production. They are serious, but they are solvable. We are forever tightening our guidelines. We are creating circumstances. We are putting some of our research dollars into better waste management methods. Certainly, if a country like Denmark can produce 17 million hogs and do it environmentally soundly, then we in Manitoba can produce four, five, six, eight or 10 million hogs. You can take all of the country of Denmark and drop it into Lake Winnipeg, and there would still be water all around it. We are saying that we cannot produce hogs in an environmentally acceptable manner in the province of Manitoba. Of course, we can, and we will do it.
But, Madam Speaker, why is it that agriculture feels compelled to maximize our opportunities? It is because what happens in this House day after day after day. Agriculture, despite the fact that only 3 percent of the population make an inordinate contribution to the well-being of this province--and we do not need the hogs to feed ourselves. We do not need the wheat that we grow to feed ourselves. We do not need the beef that we grow to feed ourselves, but it is an income-earner for the province. If the members and the opposition want the dollars to be there to maintain our health services, if they want them there to maintain our education services, if they want them there for all the other government services that we are called upon every day to provide, then we have to be smart enough to utilize those opportunities that we have to create that wealth, whether it is in forestry, whether it is in mining, whether it is in our small oil patch--and we hope it will be growing--but certainly in agriculture we can make that contribution.
Canada under the federal government, under Minister Goodale, we have set a target of some $20 billion that Canada wants to earn just in the agrifood sector alone. That is so that we as Canadians can maintain our standard of living. Now, if we can do it in a sound, environmentally acceptable way, then, of course, that is what we should be doing. That is what we should be doing, and that is exactly what we can do. That is what we will do, and that is what we are doing.
Manitoba leads the country. In Saskatchewan, hog production dropped by 7 percent in the last year. For my urban friends, there is a simple explanation. Nothing beats triple-A farming: seeding in April, harvest in August, and Arizona in winter. It beats looking after cattle, looking after chickens, milking cows or anything else. When last May and April we saw that very welcome surge in wheat prices, in cereal grain prices, farmers in Saskatchewan put aside their plans to raise hogs or produce anything else other than wheat.
Thankfully, in Manitoba, we take a longer view of things. Our production is increasing in double-digit numbers. We will be surpassing Alberta in hog production this year, and with that come the opportunities, the job opportunities that the member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson) referred to in his resolution. With that comes the opportunity of earning wealth for the province so that we can continue to do those things that governments are asked to do on a daily basis in this Chamber.
Madam Speaker, I do not divide the small and the big, board supporters and nonboard supporters. All I have created is a climate where there is a greater freedom, a greater flexibility, that obviously is working well in Manitoba. Hog production did not take a hiccup with what some accused me of making a major error and was going to cause great chaos in the hog industry. That has not happened at all. I can report to you and all members in this Chamber that hog producers will continue to provide the job opportunities in this province and they will continue to provide a great future for young farm entries into the business of agriculture, and they will be different than the traditional ones. There are different formations taking place. Groups of two, three, four families are coming together, not necessarily all farmers--maybe the local pharmacist or the doctor or the implement dealer is part of that. They are putting up these modern hog barns, and they are providing year-round employment. I am told the average wage is often in the area of $30,000 per annum, which is not shabby.
So, Madam Speaker, I regret that the honourable members opposite cannot see what is there before them as they drive through the countryside, as they read through the country papers and get on board with this exciting new industry, this exciting industry that is leading the way.
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, I, too, was wanting to put a few words on the record with respect to our party's position on the hog industry. If you take a look at the hog industry, it is comparatively doing exceptionally well as an industry, as a whole. I do not think that anyone inside the Chamber is opposing the industry in terms of potential growth that is out there. I think there is a great deal of concern in terms of some of the actions that the government has taken. The member for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk) has pointed out the changeover from the single-desk check-off system.
I do not want to claim to know or have extensive knowledge with respect to the hog industry or a lot of the agricultural services provided by the province. For all intents and purposes, I am somewhat of an urbanite, even though I do have a farm or two in my riding. But having said that, I recognize the importance of the agricultural industry to the province of Manitoba as a whole and therefore do have an interest, not only a personal interest but also from our party's interest in terms of the long-term viability and, hopefully, growth within an industry that does have great potential.
If you listen to the government or other members of the Chamber, and you hear about this potential growth, it really varies. I have heard the talks of having fresh pork flown out of the Winnport concept over to Hong Kong where there is a high demand for pork. We hear where the industry has virtually doubled in its size in the last few years. We hear great feelings in terms of potential growth within the next few years of bringing our hog production up to four million.
Madam Speaker, what I have heard through some of the hog producers--and these are hog producers that are in fact very strongly associated with all political parties and particularly the Conservative Party--that came and spoke to us as a caucus last year as we were attempting to change the system. There were a couple of things that came to mind right offhand as I was sitting listening to the NDP and the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns) speak on the member for La Verendrye's (Mr. Sveinson) resolution. One of them was the concern of the hog producer, the small hog producer that has a sense of ownership, that they are the ones that in fact are more than just a tenant.
Part of the fear was that by the movement towards the dual-marketing system that we were going to see more of a--and I believe it is--vertical integration of the hog industry which caused a great deal of concern in terms of what sort of an impact that that was going to have on the smaller independent--if you like--hog producer. Those are legitimate concerns because, in part, we are talking about a rural lifestyle that is indeed out there and worthy of preserving in whatever ways in which we can. So when you start talking about changing a system in which you market a product, we do not even have to talk about the hog industry, we could go to the Canadian Wheat Board. The minister is very familiar with all the arguments with respect to what has been happening with the Wheat Board.
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We acknowledge at times there is a need for change but when you attempt to enable or to allow for that change to occur, what one expects is that the government will, at the very least, have done some consultations. What I was surprised to have found out is that the consultations that the government did prior to the implementation of the dual checkoff was minimal at best. In fact, Madam Speaker, we had a great deal of hog producers that were very strong Conservatives that were saying that we really need as a party to take this issue and not let rural Manitobans forget about it. This is something that is going to come back to haunt the Conservatives, even if the government's predictions of prosperity are 100 percent accurate, because they felt that they were slighted, because they were not brought into the system and allowed to participate in a legitimate way to see the changes that they believed were necessary. The common thread that they have, that the Minister of Agriculture and, I would ultimately argue, all members of this Chamber have, is that they too want to see pork sales or the demand for pork increase. If the demand for pork increases, they know the long-term viability of the industry is going to be that much better well into the future.
I for one have enjoyed greatly the taste and the many different tastes of pork. Since being elected and having the opportunity to visit many different cultural events, I have been absolutely amazed with how many ways in which you can use pork. I must say I really enjoy it, and it has become a major staple of my own personal diet in particular. I have had it out of the barrel on a Hutterite colony. I have had it at Aristocrat or Bueno's and many different places, and no matter how it is cooked, it is a wonderful tasting product. I believe that not only will we see populations increase throughout the world so that there will a natural increase of demand, but what we are seeing, because of marketing from organizations such as Manitoba Pork, is the demand not only increasing because of an increase of the number of people but an increase of consumption from an individual. The taste buds, if you like, are more and more in favour of pork.
Having said those few words, because I did not want to take much--I know the member for the Interlake wanted to talk on this particular resolution, Madam Speaker, so I will leave it at that.
Mr. Clif Evans (Interlake): Madam Speaker, I would like to just take the opportunity to add a few comments here with respect to this resolution, a resolution that in principle I think we have said, and my honourable colleague from Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk) has indicated, that the support for the hog production industry in Manitoba is certainly there from this side of the House. Of course, we are certainly hoping that the production and the marketing of pork to other countries and other parts of Canada will increase and that we will be able to provide our producers with an economic benefit.
But, Madam Speaker, I am going to go at the production and the industry in a different manner and on this resolution. The resolution states, and the part that I sort of find strange is, "on its present course of building the best possible environment for stable, long-term development." As we are aware, as the members of this House are aware, in the last two or three years, the production and the buildup of the hog industry in my constituency have increased quite a bit. I am not even sure the percentage of the increase. Large operations: 6,000, Silver; 6,000, Washow Bay; 6,000 in Chatfield; 6,000 in Vidir; somewhere between 8,000 to 10,000 in the Fisher Branch area around Fisherton. The hog production in my area, yes, but what bothers me, what bothers the people in the Interlake and what bothers the people that live in the Interlake and producers, agriculture producers as well, is the fact that these large barns are built in very sensitive areas with no real concern for the sensitive areas.
Madam Speaker, there have been meetings. There have been meetings all over the Interlake. Every time an operation wanted to come to be, there were open public meetings. Promises were made by the producers. We will build a proper lagoon. Not so. We will, and we do have the land to spread the manure. Not so. We will not do anything that is not within the regulations. Not so.
I have no problem and the people in my constituency have no problem with the fact of supporting economic development in the hog industry and in the marketing to improve the industry for this province and for its producers. None. What problem we do have and what problem my constituents have is the fact that not only the production but the operation of some of these barns has not been conducive to the environment and to the safety of our water and to the prevention of any kind of problems that may occur from bad spreading, bad production.
I can back all these up with pictures. I can back all this up with letters, seeing it myself, construction of the lagoons not being done properly. How can we expect to support--[interjection] That is right. [interjection] The Minister of Agriculture says, we will pull them out.
An Honourable Member: We will pull them out and shut them down.
Mr. Clif Evans: The Minister of Agriculture knows very well that people came to him to discuss the future of the hog industry in the Interlake and their concerns. The minister did not listen.
Some of the producers and some of the investors in my communities are friends. I have had many discussions with my friends in the Interlake who are investors. We know the issue is there. The people in the communities around say that we do not have a problem with hog production; we want it done properly. That is the key. Work alongside. Make it so that the hog production industry, the economic development can work alongside with the tourism industry, with the fishing industry and the people in the area.
Not once has this member ever said, not once, that I do not agree with the development of the hog marketing industry in this province. Not once. This member wants a hog marketing industry to be sustainable to the people in the area that it is being built in. This member is concerned, and so are the people in the constituency about how it is operated. It is very disrupting to want to be able to support an industry that is so very important to Manitoba producers and yet at the same time have to go to meetings, have to go out into the areas and have people say, look at the way they are spreading.
Madam Speaker, to operate and to get onside the community and the people, do not spread a million gallons of sewage, of manure on a 60-acre field. It does not make sense. We are looking at the fact, I look at the fact that if there is going to be production in the Interlake area or in the province of Manitoba, then let us have a plan put together properly. Let us have proper regulations. Let us have the producers, the large producers that want to expand, let them be working under stricter guidelines that will co-operate with all the system, with the environment and with the people, the fishing industry.
Let us not just let these people walk in and just slap up a barn without having proper consultation and working under the regulations. I think you will see that this member and the people in the Interlake and the people of Manitoba would support the industry.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. When this matter is again before the House, the honourable member for Interlake (Mr. Clif Evans) will have eight minutes remaining.
The hour being 6 p.m., this House is adjourned and stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow (Thursday).