4th-36th Vol. 55B-Oral Questions

Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have this afternoon twelve Grade 9 students from Arthur A. Leach Junior High under the direction of Mrs. Chandardaye Manmohan. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship (Mrs. Vodrey).

Also, twenty-two Grade 9 students from River West Park School under the direction of Miss Tammy Rack. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Charleswood (Mrs. Driedger).

We also have 16 English as a Second Language students from Red River College under the direction of Mrs. Alice Landry. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Broadway (Mr. Santos).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the Premier (Mr. Filmon). Madam Speaker, further to the question yesterday I raised about vacancies in the Crown attorneys department and Crown office here in Manitoba, Mr. Hannon, a Crown attorney, has talked about the heavy caseloads and the stressful working conditions that have led to unprecedented numbers of Crowns quitting in the last few weeks.

I would like to ask the Premier today to do what we asked him to do a year ago in this Chamber and override his Minister of Justice and conduct an operational review of the Crown attorneys office in Manitoba in terms of the impact the Crown office has on caseloads and backlogs in courts.

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I appreciate that question. I know I have an ongoing opportunity to discuss issues with Mr. Gord Hannon. Of course, I, when I was a Crown attorney, worked very closely with him. Indeed, I met with him and other members of the association only two weeks ago, and this was not an issue that was raised with me.

I had occasion to speak with Mr. Hannon in respect of this particular matter, and certainly my understanding of the conversation with him is that the article in the newspaper does not indicate what in fact his position was.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, we have a situation in Manitoba where a Crown attorney dealing with the Flett case stated that she had 70 cases to deal with in one day. We had a situation on radio today where the Premier indicated that if a review was necessary--and we have said for a year that it is necessary--that a review would be conducted. I would like the Premier to take the action we asked him to take a year ago and deal with the situation.

We have vacancies that are of an unprecedented nature. We have cases, Madam Speaker, 70 cases with one Crown attorney. Surely, in the interest of justice for the people of this province, we can have an operational review of the Crown attorneys office. A similar action has taken place in the province of Saskatchewan. Can we please have that, as reported in the paper here in Manitoba?

Mr. Toews: Well, Madam Speaker, I know that the member has a tendency to put inaccurate facts on the record and once again has done that. He indicated that there were eight vacancies in the Crown attorneys office. The member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh) indicated that there were 15. In fact, that is not the correct figure. The only direct vacancies that I am aware of today are the two vacancies that were created as a result of the appointments last week. There is a reorganization going on, and my staff is very mindful of the impact that has on the Crown attorneys.

Indeed, on May 26--I might indicate this is somewhat coincidental that the member for Concordia would rise the day after this meeting occurred with the Crown attorneys and with the senior staff in my department to look at a long-term plan to ensure that the reorganization does not impact negatively on Crown attorneys and that, in fact, all these issues are dealt with on an ongoing basis.

So, again, the member has brought misleading facts to this Chamber and then expects me to have any faith in what he is indicating to the Chamber.

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Mr. Doer: I asked the minister yesterday about the numbers of vacancies in the department, and he did not even have an answer in this Chamber. He obviously is not on top of his department or he is misleading the Legislature by omission by not answering the question--[interjection] Madam Speaker, the Premier (Mr. Filmon) laughs.

Mr. Flett was released on bail, and a Crown attorney stated that the day that person was released she had 70 cases on the same day. Do you not realize people are quitting? The head of the Crown attorneys association said: an unprecedented number of people have quit. That is another quote.

I would like to ask the Premier to take action on the Department of Justice so that we can have adequate resources in the Crown attorneys office, and we can deal with the backlog in our courts and we can deal with the unprecedented numbers of cases the Crowns have here in our justice system.

Mr. Toews: Madam Speaker, one of the reasons I did not specifically address what positions were, in fact, vacant was that if in fact I made any mistake, then the member would come back and say, oh, now he is changing his mind or now he is changing his story. I would prefer not to do that.

I can indicate that, through the efforts of my colleagues in cabinet, they have approved a number of new positions in the Crown attorneys office. The Lavoie inquiry has resulted in seven new Crown attorney positions. That is essentially one-tenth of the Prosecutions staff that is being added and that, then, in addition to other support staff. So I am not saying that the system runs perfectly, but I am certainly saying that, if the member comes here expecting me to take action on the basis of what he says, at least get his facts right.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): To the Minister of Justice. It was one year ago almost to the day that we began demanding in this House that the minister stop blaming everyone else and get a grip on the ugly parade of foul-ups caused by stresses in the Prosecutions branch, order an operational review so that the Crown attorneys, those hard-working Crown attorneys, can get the supports and protocol they need to do the job.

My question to the minister, who does not even know how many people are leaving, does not even know what his director of Prosecutions knows, is: would he reverse, stop his denials and admit that the exodus of Crown prosecutors and the Association of Crown Attorneys now joining us in their demand for an operational review is a way of saying that a government cannot be tough on crime while weak on prosecutions?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Well, Madam Speaker, every single individual case that this member has brought forward has been shown to be very faulty in the application once it comes to the analysis of the facts. For example, the member for Concordia talks about 70 cases. Now, of course, he is misleading the House because it is not 70 cases. It could be 70 matters relating to bail, and that does not even necessarily mean 70 separate bail hearings. This member--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Toews: I think one of the objective measures that we can use is looking at the length in which it takes a matter to come to trial. We have one of the best records in Canada, as opposed to other provinces, specifically B.C., where thousands of cases, thousands, not just eight cases that the member alleges some Crown attorney has not conducted properly--which I disagree with him--but thousands of cases in jeopardy in British Columbia because the NDP government there has refused to properly staff the people.

Mr. Mackintosh: Would the minister at least admit, Madam Speaker, that public safety and victims have been compromised by a crisis of overwork, cuts and mismanagement, which has now moved to a crisis of a severe staff exodus from Prosecutions which will then lead to a crisis of inexperience, or does he not know what is going on in his department?

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. Toews: Madam Speaker, that is incorrect. It is one of the areas that I take very, very close observation in respect of what is going on there. As indicated, I met with the head of the union two weeks ago where we discussed a number of issues. Now this issue, despite the fact that we were together probably over two hours, was not raised. It is, I believe, because there are mechanisms within the department that are being utilized to ensure that Crown attorneys are receiving the appropriate resources.

I might indicate that every single time we believe there is an issue relating to resources, my colleagues in cabinet and government have provided those resources. So I am committed to ensuring that we in the Department of Justice have the appropriate resources. I look forward to the discussions that are ongoing between the association, between prosecutors and between my senior staff to ensure that, if there are concerns, we will meet those concerns.

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Mr. Mackintosh: Madam Speaker, would this minister, who is demonstrating he does not know what is going on in his department--he is losing over a quarter of his prosecutors--explain: how will Prosecutions adequately protect our safety now? How many plea bargains and remands will be agreed to to get files off the desk? How many dangerous bail releases will be acquiesced in now, and what kinds of foul-ups should we be expecting? This is a crisis that he has created.

Mr. Toews: Madam Speaker, again, the member misleads the House. He knows very well it is not one-quarter of the prosecutors. In fact, some of the things that we are doing is moving senior experienced prosecutors into the area of family violence.

Perhaps the member opposite does not consider family violence and domestic abuse an important thing, but I will tell you and I will tell the members of this House that I consider it a priority of this government that we have good prosecutors conducting those cases. So the changes that are the transfers being made, not the quitting, are in fact designed to strengthen areas of my department.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health. One of the roles of the opposition and all members of a Legislature or a parliament is to raise issues of concern, safety and otherwise to the appropriate government for follow-up and investigation.

For a number of weeks, both here in the Legislature and in Ottawa, our critics have been raising the concern about the safety of the blood product albumin that is being used on a daily basis in our hospitals. Those safety concerns have not been addressed. I have had the opportunity to review the consent decree issued by the United States with respect to the manufacturing of this product, and there are very valid safety concerns concerning albumin.

My question to the Minister of Health today is: what specific steps is the Minister of Health taking to review the use of albumin in hospitals and in facilities in Winnipeg, and will he update us and outline for us what steps he has taken to ensure the safety of this product?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, first of all, I do recognize that it is the role of the opposition to bring these matters forward. I do appreciate many occasions when the member for Kildonan does bring forward a variety of concerns, many of which I share, that are raised publicly.

With respect to the quality of drugs, of blood and blood products, of food products in our system, not only is the jurisdiction and responsibility with the national government, but very practically the ability for them to--for the assessments to be made accurately on product rests with them. The Manitoba Ministry of Health, because we do not have that constitutional responsibility, is not geared up to be in a position to redo that work, in essence.

I rely, as minister, upon my director of public health, Dr. Greg Hammond, who works very closely with authorities, for his advice on flagging whether or not there is a potential problem. He works very closely with his counterparts in Health and Welfare Canada. To date, I do not have a reason before me to take any of the steps that the member is suggesting.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, in light of the fact that I have been informed that a directive has gone out from Health Sciences Centre to not use the unlicensed product, will the minister be prepared to write to the Health minister, Allan Rock, outlining our concerns and ask for confirmation that, in fact, all steps have been taken and all steps will be taken to utilize the proper product in Manitoba?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, that is a very, very reasonable request, and I can tell him that that correspondence is being prepared. I was hoping to get it out this morning, but I can assure him that it will be out today. It is very good advice, and it was what I considered, as I said, doing in the few days. That letter, in fact, is being prepared.

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Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, will the minister also make an inquiry to ensure that the lot numbers presently being used in Manitoba facilities are not lot numbers that were issued prior to the order being put in by the United States court in January that called for product to be destroyed, et cetera, because we are of the opinion that it is possible that blood product now being used is inventoried from November and October of last year, and it may have quality problems that have to be reviewed? Will the minister ensure that is done, so that Manitobans can be assured about the safety of the product as well?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, facilities which are providing health care within this province or regional health authorities have that responsibility to ensure that their products are safe to the best of their ability. I can assure him that Dr. Greg Hammond is working with those facilities, particularly the Health Sciences Centre. The issue that he raises, I do not have specifics on it, but I can assure you that Dr. Hammond is on top of this particular matter. I would be pleased to advise him at some other time and update him on exactly the state of those lot numbers.

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): I rise today on a very important matter. I want to bring to the attention of this House, and particularly to the Minister of Justice whom I have some questions for, the death of Joseph Akiwenzie who died on the 12th of May of this year.

Madam Speaker, if you will bear with me, I have to bring forth some information here that is very important for the minister to know and also all Manitobans.

On May 1, Mr. Akiwenzie was beaten by two people in Brandon, and they stole his pension cheque as well. He was taken to the hospital later that day, admitted, wandered out of the hospital in a state of confusion as a result of head injuries that he sustained. He was determined to be drunk, police were called and he spent a night in the drunk tank. Nine days after, on May 10, he was again taken to the hospital by ambulance, refused care again by the facility and was again taken back to the drunk tank. On May 11, the police, realizing that this man was indeed experiencing head injuries and could not even sign his own name with a pen--was returned to the hospital, airlifted to Winnipeg, and as a result, died of a brain hemorrhage on May 12.

Madam Speaker, this appears to aboriginal leaders in this province to have racial overtones, that maybe this death could have been prevented as a result if this man was given appropriate treatment by the hospital and also by the police.

My question to the Justice minister: have charges been laid against the people that administered this beating on Mr. Akiwenzie? Equally, will the minister hold accountable the hospital and the Brandon city police?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I thank the member for drawing this issue to my attention. I was briefly made aware of this situation this morning. I have not yet received any status report in respect of whether or not charges are laid. Of course, the laying of charges is a matter not for the Minister of Justice or indeed the Department of Justice or the prosecutors. It is a matter for police.

Now, if the member is raising a specific concern about the conduct of a police force, there are avenues to pursue in that respect, but I certainly want to assure the member that I think both the Minister of Health (Mr. Praznik) and myself and others would be very concerned about the situation to ensure that everything that was done was appropriately done.

So, while I cannot give any specific assurances or comments at this time--indeed it may be inappropriate for me to do so if this is a matter that is under investigation, but if there is an appropriate time in which to further raise this issue with the member, I will do so.

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Mr. Robinson: In a meeting with the Grand Chiefs of MKO and AMC this morning, Madam Speaker, they both concluded that attitudes and policies have not changed in the last 10 years since the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry was commissioned. The Grand Chiefs are also wanting the minister to enact an independent public inquiry, because certainly uncertainties will prevail for a long time surrounding the death of Mr. Akiwenzie. I would like to ask the minister if he will enact that independent public inquiry into this man's death.

Mr. Toews: Madam Speaker, as the member may be aware, it would be inappropriate to have any kind of an inquest or an inquiry if there is an ongoing police investigation. So I would assure the member of my deep concern over the issue and that, if there is something that the Department of Justice should be doing at this time, it will be done.

Mr. Robinson: Madam Speaker, I am sure that the minister, like myself and members of my caucus, does not tolerate racial indifference. I want to ask the minister if he will meet with the Grand Chiefs of MKO and AMC to further discuss the independent public inquiry and its parameters at the earliest opportunity.

Mr. Toews: Madam Speaker, I thank the member for that invitation. It is not an invitation that I am at liberty to accept at this time. I know I have met with those individuals on other occasions. I have had very important and interesting discussions with them. While it would not be appropriate for me to meet at this time with them on that issue, I can certainly make very senior members of my staff available to them. In fact, I would encourage them to contact them, or indeed I will have my staff contact those individuals directly.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for Hydro. It is quite disappointing in terms of the government's lack of leadership on something that is important to all Manitobans. We recognize the need for an amalgamation of Manitoba Hydro and Winnipeg Hydro. There are no doubt many benefits by moving in that direction, and this government has done nothing to that effect in the last 10 years.

My question specific to the minister responsible is: has the minister had any dialogue whatsoever with city councillors or with the mayor of Winnipeg with respect to Winnipeg Hydro and Manitoba Hydro?

Hon. David Newman (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act): Yes.

Mr. Lamoureux: It is an answer; I will give it that much, Madam Speaker. My question then is: will the minister elaborate a little bit on his "yes" and tell us when did he correspond and what was the essence of the correspondence?

Mr. Newman: Madam Speaker, I welcome the opportunity to elaborate. Indeed there have been personal conversations with the mayor and representatives of the council, the Executive Policy Committee, at a meeting in this building. I frankly challenged them to get the best advice they possibly could, consider it, and look very seriously at what I thought was an opportunity for the City of Winnipeg and the customers of Hydro, Winnipeg Hydro in the city of Winnipeg to perhaps enter into a relationship with Manitoba Hydro that would be to the benefit of Winnipeg citizens and for the benefit of the customers of Hydro in the city of Winnipeg.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, can the minister indicate then that the government is prepared to look at some form of compensation to the City of Winnipeg because they do use revenues from Winnipeg Hydro into their own general revenue? Is the province prepared then to enter into that sort of dialogue to ensure that the City of Winnipeg, in fact, will receive some benefit in the amalgamation of the two Crown corporations?

Mr. Newman: Madam Speaker, of course we would expect the elected representatives of Winnipeggers to exercise very, very careful judgment and prudent business acumen in determining what was an appropriate deal involving a possible disposition of Winnipeg Hydro or a merger or some other relationship with Manitoba Hydro which would be other than a contractual one now respecting the provision of power by Manitoba Hydro to Winnipeg Hydro for the benefit of Winnipeg customers. So, indeed, we would expect them to come forward with a very responsible price or approach to negotiations which could lead to a transaction, as I say, for the benefit of Winnipeg citizens, Winnipeg customers and all Manitobans.

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Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, how would we or how would the Minister of Family Services know that caseloads for front-line Child and Family Services workers are too high? Would it be because the Child Welfare League says the ratios are too high? Would it be because the workers themselves are saying it is too high, because the Children's Advocate is saying it is too high? Well, now today we have a new answer. We have a supervisor testifying at an inquest who says, and I quote: by virtue of the fact that a child in the caseload died.

Is the minister willing to take this new evidence--not numbers, not statistics, but a statement at an inquest that a child died and therefore that caseloads are too high--and immediately institute a review of the caseload of workers, of the front-line workers of Child and Family Services agencies?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Madam Speaker, I thank my honourable friend for that question, but I am not prepared at this point in time, until the inquest and all of the information is available and the report is done, to make comments on that inquest. I do want to indicate to my honourable friend, as I have in the past, that this year in our budget for Winnipeg Child and Family Services we have provided over $63 million. That is an increase of $25 million since the agency was combined into one agency back in 1991. That is exactly--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Thank you, Madam Speaker. That is an increase of $25 million since 1990-91. That is exactly the amount that the Winnipeg Child and Family Services agency has requested this year to provide services through their agency. I know that Mr. Lance Barber, the new CEO for the Winnipeg agency, is going through right now and today, as we speak, a strategic planning process that will in fact look at all of the operations of the Winnipeg agency. I am sure, if members across the way have the opportunity to see what the results of that will be, they should be very pleased.

Mr. Martindale: Madam Speaker, I would like to table three copies of a letter which was couriered to the minister this morning from the workers in which they say: we find it incredulous that the minister would so deny the realities we face and will not accept responsibility for caseload numbers.

Why is this minister going to wait until the inquest is over when she already has the evidence that she needs today? Why is she waiting for the inquest to review the caseloads? Why does she not institute it today?

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Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, again I will indicate that we have not waited for anything. Winnipeg Child and Family Services requested over $63 million in their budget this year, which they indicated would be sufficient to operate.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister of Family Services, to complete her response.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Thank you very much, and again, Madam Speaker, I will repeat: Winnipeg Child and Family Services indicated that $63 million this year was the budget they required to protect children in the city of Winnipeg. We provided that funding to them, and I will indicate again that the Winnipeg agency is not waiting for--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Thank you, Madam Speaker, and I will try again. I will indicate, and I will repeat again, that Winnipeg Child and Family requested $63 million in order to do their job to protect children in the city of Winnipeg.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Family Services.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, and I will try again. Winnipeg Child and Family Services agency requested $63 million this year to provide adequate support and protection to the children in the city of Winnipeg. We provided, through this year's budget, over $63 million to the Winnipeg agency. That is a $25-million increase since 1990-91, and that is a $10-million increase over the year that the issue around Sophia Schmidt occurred. The Winnipeg agency is doing strategic planning today as we speak. They are not waiting for the inquest to be finished. They are looking at reorganization and restructuring to ensure that they can protect children. They are going through that planning--

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): On a point of order, Madam Speaker, I believe the minister is essentially repeating with various rather lengthy pauses what she has already been saying. I would point out Beauchesne Citation 417 makes it very clear that answers to questions should be as brief as possible. I would ask that you ask the minister to follow that. Any of the conversations across the floor are probably relatively minor in comparison to the normal exchanges that take place, and I think the minister is unnecessarily delaying and extending her answer. I believe she should be brought to order.

Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, we have more evidence of the strategy I referred to a day or so ago. Honourable members opposite create the disorder and then raise points of order to complain about it. The honourable Minister of Family Services day in and day out has been trying to answer questions of the honourable member for Burrows and is interrupted by the honourable member for Wellington (Ms. Barrett) over and over again. So the Minister of Family Services attempts to wait for some quiet to prevail in this Chamber so she can make her answers. She is not allowed to do so, and now we have a point of order. I ask you to look very carefully at that one because the point of order, if there is one at all, is given rise as a result of the behaviour of honourable members opposite.

Madam Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton), the honourable member did not have a point of order. When the comments are coming from both sides of the House and the Speaker stands, the member that has been recognized to speak to either pose a question or respond to a question is obliged to sit down and then can resume the answer.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows, to pose his question now, please.

Mr. Martindale: I would like to ask the minister, who wants to talk about strategic planning and not answer the question, if she will address the issues raised in the letter to her today. In fact, they call her responses naive, misleading and an abdication of her responsibility. Will she agree to meet with these people? Will she agree to a workload review immediately and not wait another year until we have another report?

Mrs. Mitchelson: Madam Speaker, I knew that my honourable friend has been asking the same question now for four days as a result of the union asking him to ask those questions as evidenced by the letter that he tabled.

I take the issue that has been raised extremely seriously, and I do want all Manitobans to know that we, not only within my department but in the Winnipeg Child and Family Services agency, are looking now at the kinds of issues that were raised two years ago when the issue around Sophia Schmidt did happen, and as a result of that there have been significant changes made, I know, at the agency level and I know within my department also. They will continue in the Winnipeg agency under the new leadership of Lance Barber, the new CEO, to look at the best way to deliver protection services in the city of Winnipeg, and I know that we have provided funding that Winnipeg has asked for in order to do the job that they believe they need to do to protect children.

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, four provinces in Canada cover the cost of Betaseron but here in Manitoba, where the incidence of MS is extremely high and human suffering is commensurate and despite the minister's January 1998 promise to cover Betaseron, even Manitobans who meet all criteria for coverage have not received a single Betaseron treatment.

So I want to ask the minister, who knows that Manitobans are suffering, when he will honour his word. What is the holdup? When will these individuals who meet the criteria finally receive Betaseron?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I am pleased to provide the information to the member. It is a very important question, very important issue.

As the member remembers, the Manitoba committee recommended that we put a project in place to test this product. We agreed. We put the funding in place. The MS Clinic is to be the host for that project. They have done their preparatory work, hired staff. They have done the assessments on the eligible patients. I understand that they only have today one physician working at the MS Clinic who is away attending a meeting on Betaseron in France, and the requirement to issue the drugs requires that particular physician to authorize the use of the drugs on individuals.

This was brought to my attention a couple of weeks ago, and we are attempting to identify other physicians who would be able to fill that particular component of the program.

Ms. McGifford: Well, I hope the minister can do that expeditiously.

I want to ask the minister if he will follow the example set by Saskatchewan and establish a high-cost drugs task force which would establish protocols for coverage so we could avoid the current ad hoc decision-making process and protect Manitobans from unconscionable delays like the ones Manitobans with MS are now experiencing.

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, our intent with the change in the approval for therapeutic drugs and the development of the Betaseron project is to do just that, to develop the kind of process and measurement tools, et cetera, to test high-cost drugs where the benefits of those drugs are not totally ascertained.

Regrettably, in this particular case with Betaseron, the number of physicians practising at the MS Clinic when the clinic undertook to be the host, I believe, was two or three physicians. They now have one physician who, as I indicated, has been away at a Betaseron meeting overseas. So we have been working with the MS community and that clinic to be able to find another way of expediting the medical part of the program.

We are hoping that we are going to be able to see approvals very, very quickly. But it has not been for lack of effort or for lack of money to make this work.

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Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I am responding in respect of a question that was posed to me yesterday by the member for Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson) in respect of a specific trial involving a Mr. Wilson.

I could indicate that the Crown attorney who conducted the case has conducted a review of the transcript containing the judge's charge to the jury. He consulted with other senior members in the department, and it is the Crown attorney's opinion that no error in law was made in charging the jury in that case. However, the Crown attorney has recommended that the Crown file an appeal of the sentence imposed for the charge of manslaughter. The assistant deputy Attorney General of Prosecutions has signed this notice, and the same will be filed with the Court of Appeal.

Accordingly, as this matter is still ongoing, I do not believe it would be appropriate for me to comment any further.

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): To the Minister of Justice. The minister has recently purported to speak for the Chief Judge of Manitoba and today purports to speak, as well, for the president of the Manitoba Association of Crown Attorneys. Of course, I do not know if he hired another lawyer, Madam Speaker.

I would like the minister to tell this Assembly: is he saying that Mr. Hannon was misquoted when he says that seven of the people who have left out of a total of, we understand, 15, including a retirement, two secondments, two judges, that seven of them outright quit, or is he saying, as well, that Mr. Hannon was misquoted--on what? The heavy caseloads, stressful working conditions, the need for a detailed review, the poor working environment taking a toll on morale? What aspect is he purporting to speak on behalf of Mr. Hannon on?

Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I want to ensure that I stay in touch with members of our department. It is not simply the senior staff, but I speak to many of the line staff on an ongoing basis. I thought it was very important two weeks ago that I meet with Mr. Hannon on other issues. In fact, I met with him then; I have met with him on other occasions.

I prefer that these lines of communication stay open. Mr. Hannon, I know, is a very reasonable person, and I had a conversation with him this morning in respect of this particular issue. I do not purport to speak on his behalf.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Time for Oral Questions has expired.