4th-36th Vol. 59B-Oral Questions

Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members, first to the Speaker's Gallery where we have with us this afternoon a delegation of parliamentarians from Chile under the direction of Minister Henriquez, Minister of Housing.

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you today.

I would like to also draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today Grand Chief Francis Flett, MKO, and Chief Fred Harper of Red Sucker Lake.

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

Also, we have in the public gallery this afternoon, thirty-five Grade 9 students from Linden Christian School under the direction of Mr. Derek Kroeker. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable First Minister (Mr. Filmon).

Also, seventy-two Grades 1 to 12 students from Valley Mennonite Academy under the direction of Mr. John Friesen. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Pembina (Mr. Dyck).

Also, thirty-nine Grade 5 students from Belmont School under the direction of Ms. Sukhbir Gill and Mrs. Shelley Maslow-Myk. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh).

Also, thirty Grades 9 and 10 students from Arthur Meighen High School under the direction of Mr. Ryan Muirhead. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Faurschou).

Also, fourteen Grade 11 students from Otter Nelson River School under the direction of Ms. Martha Greenwood. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, in 1992 the provincial government cut programs for speech and language services to children and preschool children. When the Postl report was made public, it stated that the waiting list was some 18 months and recommended staff be hired. The government then promised they would do so in the election campaign and have failed to do so since.

Today, in meeting with parents, a parent named Lorraine said that a child that does not learn to communicate gets frustrated and gets behavioural problems that will carry on into the school system.

Madam Speaker, I would like the Premier today to announce that they are in fact going to implement the Postl report and implement finally their election promise. It is over three years since they made this commitment. Let us make this commitment on behalf of our children here in Manitoba today.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, there is no question that we believe that the investment made in children in their ability to learn, their ability to study, is an important investment, and indeed this government has indicated that it is committed to reduce the waiting lists for speech therapy for those areas to assist our children with speech difficulties in learning. Certainly we are committed to implementing those improvements.

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Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, the waiting list has gone up from 18 months under the Postl report to two years now, according to Mr. Thorfinnson, and parents that we listened to today said that the parents have two options. They can pay between $60 and $100 a day for private, fee-for-service clinicians that have gone from 10 under his government to 60, or they can wait two years. Will the Premier stop just talking about this issue and start introducing real programs, real resources, real clinicians to deal with the real challenges that hundreds of Manitoba families have right now?

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, indeed we are committed to dealing with it. My understanding is that resources have been budgeted for that purpose, and it is our intent to reduce the waiting lists.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, the Postl report also goes on in terms of talking about a Healthy Child program. It talks about the essential role of nurses in schools and talks about having preventative health programs and direct health care programs in our schools, not only to help the children but to relieve the pressure on teachers. We have heard that the responsibility for dealing with head lice in the Winnipeg schools has moved now from public health nurses, a city jurisdiction, to teachers, who of course are under the purview of the provincial Minister of Education. Would it not make a lot more sense to hire more nurses to do preventative health work and direct health work in our schools, as recommended in the Healthy Child report, instead of going again in the opposite direction on behalf of our kids?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, the member asks a very good question and one that this government has taken a lot of work to reply to even in advance of it being asked. Last year, for example, the Department of Health made available for school divisions some $450,000 for the express purpose of hiring registered nurses for schools. That was a very good move that was taken up by school divisions to the tune of some $270,000. I may have the figure off a little bit there, but in that neighbourhood. As well, we have side-by-side pilot programs going on right now where we have public health nurses, say in Polson School, along with community police officers, et cetera. So the ability through the Children and Youth Secretariat to put together programs where the whole child is seen and where appropriate servicing coming from Health into the schools and all those kinds of co-ordinating activities are well underway by this government.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, Manitoba parents are telling us of horrendous waiting lists at the preschool level, waiting lists of over 500 for evaluation in speech and language therapy. Children stay on that list for years; they never reach the top. Then they are school age and they go to the bottom of the waiting list, and some of those waiting lists are growing, as the Leader of the Opposition has said. We have heard the Premier's platitudes; we have heard him express concern. I would like to hear from the Minister of Education today what specific steps she is going to take to reduce those waiting lists in the next six months for Manitobans.

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): The member has heard me speak in the first question, has heard me speak on other occasions about the work of the Children and Youth Secretariat and about putting whole service schools into being, notwithstanding the fact that there are clinicians and resource teachers, school psychologists and people of that nature in the school. In fact, we currently have a ratio of 14.9 to 1 in terms of educator-pupil ratios in the schools, and many of those are clinicians in those extra four positions.

But, Madam Speaker, when we talk about trying to integrate services into the schools, as our pilot projects are now showing, and we bring in the medical services as well as the justice, et cetera, into the schools, I think you are going to see a very positive report come on those pilot projects. In the meantime, in terms of the students that are being serviced by the existing health care providers, we are working both at the preschool and the school level to reduce those waiting lists by ensuring that there is, first of all, a good early referral by audiologists to those kinds of therapies.

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Ms. Friesen: Would the minister confirm the information provided by the Speech and Hearing Association, that Manitoba has only three educational audiologists for school-aged services in Manitoba, that city school divisions have waiting lists of over 20 and that one rural school division has a waiting list of over a hundred and two? What specific steps will you take in the next six months to change that?

Mrs. McIntosh: The member asks me to confirm those figures, and I will, because, as we have seen from many other examples in the House, the figures provided in the preamble from the member opposite are frequently incorrect. So I will confirm them, Madam Speaker, and provide the answers to her once her figures have been confirmed as accurate or otherwise.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, the minister will find that I raised these questions last week, and she still has not--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Would the honourable member please pose her question now.

Ms. Friesen: Would the minister tell the House whether she is recommending to school divisions the practice that some parents are now resorting to of bringing private clinicians into public schools? Is that the future of public education in Manitoba that this government has led us to?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, I have not received recommendations from parents to bring private clinicians into the schools in Manitoba.

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Madam Speaker, foster parents with children with special needs are telling us that they have to fight for every dime of respite services, homemakers, recreation, clothing, and this is a very discouraging process for these people. They want to know why it is that the agencies are not more considerate, and why it is that the more articulate they are and the harder they fight, they get the services, instead of the services being based on the needs of the children. Will this minister address this problem so that the needs are being met on the needs of the child, not on the ability of the parents to fight?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): I thank my honourable friend for that question. I do know that many, many of the children that we have in foster homes today, significantly more than ever in the past, have additional supports through special needs rates in our Child and Family Services system. I would say over half of the children within our system certainly are supported with more than the basic rate in our foster home placements, and I know that additional services based on the needs of the child are supposed to be available.

I have had conversations with some foster parents, yes, who have called my office with issues around difficulty in accessing services. I certainly pass that information on. I know we have been able to help a lot of families as a result of working together to try to ensure that the services are there when the children need them.

Mr. Martindale: I would like to thank the minister for acknowledging that it is the special-rate foster parents that we are talking about and ask the minister: why is it that the parents of these children are being so nickled and dimed to death, which is what they tell me, and becoming so discouraged that they either want to stop fostering or they go to other agencies where they are paid much higher rates? At the time when we have numerous children in hotels and in four-bed units, why is this minister and her government's policies discouraging these parents when we need more parents to foster?

Mrs. Mitchelson: I indicated in my first answer that I have had foster parents call my office directly. Every time a foster parent calls with an issue, we refer it to the agency. We work with the agency to ensure that the services are there and available for those children.

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If my honourable friend has specific circumstances and specific families or foster parents that are raising issues with him, I would encourage him to share that information with me or have those foster families call. We will ensure that we work with the agency to try to resolve the problem.

Mr. Martindale: I would like to ask the minister why it is that parents would have to phone the minister's office. Why can they not get the help they need by talking to the contact person in the agency? Why do they have to fight for these services? Why do they have to phone the minister's office, and why is it that these policies are discouraging people from fostering so that they want to quit taking foster children or they switch to the other agencies where they get much higher rates? Then Winnipeg is backlogged with children in hotels. Why will this minister not do something about this unacceptable situation?

Mrs. Mitchelson: I will tell you what this government has done to address the issue of children in care. We have increased support to the Winnipeg Child and Family Services agency by $23 million over the last five to six years, not an insignificant amount to try to address the needs. We have funded the agency with the dollars that they believe are required to provide the services to children in the city of Winnipeg.

If, in fact, there are some workers in the system that are not able to provide referrals and supports to those children, we need to know about that so we can try to address that issue. But I want to indicate that the funding is there. There have not been reductions in support to the Winnipeg Child and Family Services agency, and we will continue to attempt to meet the needs through increased resources as they are needed for children that need support through our Child and Family Services system.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, several weeks ago the Minister of Health (Mr. Praznik) pronounced the MMA as irrelevant. A couple of weeks later the MMA were up in Brandon and were the minister's best friends. Several weeks ago when we suggested binding arbitration, the government and the minister rejected it. Then the minister came back and said binding arbitration with conditions. Several weeks ago the minister said, no, we will not negotiate for salaried doctors. Now there has been a negotiated settlement for salaried doctors.

Madam Speaker, my question to the Premier is: with all of these flip-flops by his Minister of Health, will the Premier consider putting another minister in charge of the negotiations with the Manitoba Medical Association?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, of course the member for Kildonan, with his glib approach to this, belittles the complexities and all the difficulties of delivering high-quality health care to the people of Manitoba, to over a million citizens. Dealing with a whole spectrum of doctors, many of whom are specialists, distribution in different areas, ensuring that we have doctors in places that are needed, ensuring that we deal with the various complexities and anomalies of providing for after-hours service, for weekend coverage, specialty referrals and all those things; it is easy for him to boil it down to glib one-word answers and 10-second clips, but that is not the kind of thing that is going to be needed for good public policy in Manitoba for a high-quality health care system in Manitoba.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, how does the Premier expect his Minister of Health (Mr. Praznik) to negotiate these complicated agreements with the physicians and in our health care system when, after negotiations are concluded, to begin to deal with the issues, the minister stands up and publicly says that the doctors have kept the people of Manitoba as hostages? How do you expect this minister to have the ability and the good will and the confidence of those people to negotiate agreements, given those kinds of statements?

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, if the member opposite supports putting in jeopardy the most vulnerable people in our society, the people who are in dire need of health care coverage and attention, if he believes that is the best approach to dealing with government, then I am glad that the people of Manitoba have seen fit not to have him in government and in charge of these things.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, can the Premier explain, therefore, given his comments and given what I have said earlier, why it is that it took three weeks for you to agree to our suggestion of three weeks ago that would not have put Manitobans through this, of going to binding arbitration in the first place without those conditions, and why you had to go through such a process and allow the minister to go back and forth and flip-flop? We would have had a settlement, and we would have been negotiating three weeks ago if you had not blown it.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, the only people who blow it here every day are the members opposite who cheer when people are being put at risk, when individual Manitobans are being denied service. Those are the people who are blowing it day after day.

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Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): Madam Speaker, on a point of order, I do believe the comments of the Premier are once again unparliamentary. He talks about cheering. We have been the ones in this House arguing that this government should have gone to arbitration a lot sooner so that people would not be put in that position.

I would like to ask, Madam Speaker, that you ask him to withdraw the unparliamentary comment and, in addition, answer the very serious question we are asking about why it took this government so long to deal with the need for arbitration to deal with this dispute.

Madam Speaker: The honourable First Minister, on the same point of order.

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, on the same point of order. It was the member opposite who used the term having "blown it" in the negotiations and the discussion. It is the member opposite who is the one who has been, throughout the piece, supporting efforts to withdraw services and to put people in jeopardy, and he demonstrates it by coming here day after day.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Thompson, I can find no verification that the words stated by the honourable First Minister are unparliamentary.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): My question is for the Premier. In recent media reports, we hear of the unholy alliance of the Reform Party with the Bloc party, Madam Speaker, and what they want to do is divide Canada into 10 separate nations.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

An Honourable Member: Which party are you with today, Kevin?

Mr. Lamoureux: Not with the Reform Party.

Madam Speaker, the question for the Premier is in respect to the whole issue of national unity. When you have arguments coming from the one side, where we are talking about a highly decentralized national government, does this government have a position on the issue of decentralization versus the status quo?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, this government has always favoured having a strong national government that is able to act in the best interests of people nationwide in the development and assurance of qualities and standards on a nationwide basis.

This government also recognizes that in many cases the government that is closest to the people, that is actually responsible for delivering the service, should have a great deal more to do with the delivery of that service and not have standards or not have imposed upon them dictates from Ottawa, who do not know as much as we do about things that are going on in the local economic area.

We believe that it is a matter of ensuring that those responsibilities that are being divided up amongst the governments of Canada, that were conceived 130 years ago at a time when Canada was very, very different, ought to be reviewed from time to time, and that at all times, rather than have ideology, rather than have lust for power as our motivation, we ought to be evaluating whose best position to deliver those services and who can do the most efficient and effective job on behalf of the taxpayer, because we are all one taxpayer. That has always been our approach. It has been a very pragmatic approach.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, given the Premier's response: will he then be prepared to commit to the belief that it is indeed in Manitoba's best interest that we maintain cash transfers and that any discussions with respect to the possibility of tax points transfers over the cash transfers is something that this government will not tolerate whatsoever?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, when the cash transfers continue to erode and to erode to the point that we are virtually left without cash to be transferred from Ottawa, what good are cash transfers to us? How on earth can we continue that circumstance in which the cash transfers continue to be eroded and reduced from Ottawa to the provinces? That is not something any of us should be supporting, and I am surprised that the member for Inkster is taking that position.

Madam Speaker, we have always said that when it comes to the transference of tax points, they have to be equalized tax points so that we not only get it on a per capita basis but we get the proportionate equalization that goes along with the recognition that equalization is very much a fundamental part of national transfers from the federal government to the provinces.

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Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, will the Premier acknowledge the only way in which you are going to get influence from the national government is through cash transfers, not tax points transfers? This government needs to take a position which supports the need for cash transfers and will reject categorically suggestions, whether they are from Alberta or B.C. or other potential provinces like Quebec, in favour of tax points transfers over cash transfers. That is not in Manitoba's best interest.

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, I do not think that Quebec is a potential province at the moment, but I say to the member opposite that the issue very clearly is that, in terms of cash transfers, successive governments for decades in Ottawa, Liberal and Conservative, have reduced and reduced those cash transfers. We do not have the security on cash transfers any longer. We have targeted programs that Ottawa comes into and out of. We just saw a recent one, one of the programs that we--

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, just on a point of order, because there is a responsibility to be more straightforward with the facts. From what I understand, there is a cash floor that has been established for the transfer payments. So the whole premise of the Premier's arguments is based on information that is just not accurate.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Leader of the official opposition, on the same point of order.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): On the same point of order. I believe this is a matter in dispute, but I think the record will show clearly that the Mulroney government cut money for health and post-secondary education, and that has been accelerated by the Chretien government. We say a plague on both their houses, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable government House leader, on the same point of order.

Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): We have just had a lesson from two opposition members on how to abuse the point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Inkster certainly did not have a point of order.

Madam Speaker: The honourable First Minister, to complete his response.

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, we know that, in terms of the cash transfers from Ottawa for health and post-secondary education, we have had since the Chretien government has been in office a reduction of transfers of almost $7 billion annually from Ottawa to the provinces. So there is no question about the reduction in cash transfers. We see the other approach which is then to take targeted money and put it into a program like Taking Charge!, a program that was in fact responsible for taking more than a thousand people off welfare, single people off welfare, and into employment here. Ottawa began the program, and even before their committed money was spent, they have pulled out of the program. That is the kind of thing that he wants to rely on for the future of Manitoba.

Well, I say that he is either naive or not in much understanding of the circumstances when he proposes what he does with respect to Manitoba's future.

Mr. Eric Robinson (Rupertsland): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Consumer Affairs.

As the minister should be aware, prices of basic groceries in many remote communities are normally about a hundred percent higher than Winnipeg. Allow me to give you an example: in some communities, $5 for six potatoes; $9 for a gallon of gasoline; $14 for a 10-pound bag of flour; $8 for four litres of milk.

Now what has been happening here is that many aboriginal communities in northern Manitoba feel that there has been some price gouging. In discussions with Chief Fred Harper this morning from Red Sucker Lake, he brought to us a 10-pound bag of flour from his community, sold at the Northern Stores, and it is quite evident that in the flour were weevils, as they are called.

In regard to these recent allegations of price gouging, I want to ask the minister whether he would ask his department to conduct an investigation into food prices in all remote communities that do not have all-weather roads or rail service.

Hon. Mike Radcliffe (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Madam Speaker, my honourable colleague wrote me a letter today, and it was delivered to my office about an hour ago, touching on this matter. I am advised that the federal Department of Indian and Native Affairs has made an agreement with the Province of Manitoba, arising out of the melt we had and the loss of the winter roads, that they would be augmenting the costs of--or they would be covering the additional costs of transporting goods into northern areas by virtue of an airlift. The understanding was that the northern merchants were to charge nothing in excess of what their normal prices were. We have heard an example, of course, of what the customary prices were; however, I want to assure my honourable colleague that if he would give me some more particulars on this, I would be delighted to have the Department of Consumer Affairs investigate the matter.

Mr. Robinson: Madam Speaker, according to a 1993 MKO report, it indicates that at the best of times Red Sucker Lake experiences 87 percent higher food costs than Winnipeg. They in Lac Brochet experience 88 percent higher food costs compared to Winnipeg. Grand Chief Francis Flett is in the gallery, as is Chief Fred Harper of Red Sucker Lake. I would like to ask the minister to avail himself of the opportunity to see first-hand that flour and also to see first-hand some of the concerns that these leaders of these northern aboriginal communities have.

Mr. Radcliffe: Since I have had the honour and pleasure to occupy the chair as the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs, I have maintained an open-door policy in my office, and any citizen of Manitoba is welcome to approach my office and approach me personally if they find that they are having difficulties with any of the issues that my department covers. In response to my honourable colleague this afternoon, I would like to assure you, Madam Speaker, that I would be delighted to meet with these individuals whom he makes reference to.

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, Manitoba's mineral industry is in crisis. We have seen layoffs at Thompson and downsizing in Flin Flon and mine closures in Bissett, and we have seen a growing depletion of mineral resources in Manitoba. Serious questions are being raised about the government's commitment to dealing with Manitoba's shortage of prospectors and its commitment to ensuring a strong and healthy mineral industry.

Madam Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Mines: how does the minister explain the total bungling by the province of the prospectors course, which was to be offered last year in which 17 participants signed up for the program but only were given four weeks of a five-month program, to have it only end with no practicum? The whole thing was a total disaster.

Hon. David Newman (Minister of Energy and Mines): Madam Speaker, the companion I had on my trip up to Thompson to the Mid-Canada Mining Corridor Conference is exercising far more negative emotion than I saw exhibited in the trip North. However, fuelled by the great northern hospitality and the good news from the mining industry, I can understand why she might pose a question in this sort of fashion.

The answer to that is, indeed, I have nothing but dissatisfaction with the way that that program was handled last year, and the Mining Association of Manitoba, the industry members that were involved and the people that were involved in trying to make that a success are absolutely committed to improving on the performance of last year.

If I may take a moment, because, for the record, I have sent a letter to the honourable member for St. James indicating the facts about prospectors' assistance, and it is just not factual that she asserted--when she asserted before that it was reduced by 50 percent. The position that I advanced last time is indeed correct.

Ms. Mihychuk: Madam Speaker, I am afraid that the minister is totally confused. The question was based on a prospecting course that the province had initiated and was attempting to provide last year. The minister seems to be completely confused with a question that I had asked last week.

Madam Speaker, mining is a big industry and there are a lot of different factors, but the minister seems to be completely confused about the question.

Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, the honourable member for St. James can hardly be given much credibility when she rises on a point of order to try to bring attention to a minister who is simply correcting misinformation brought to this House by the honourable member for St. James. At the worst, we have a difference of opinion.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Thompson, on the same point of order.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): Yes, Madam Speaker, and indeed I could probably ask members to repeat after me: Beauchesne Citation 417, "Answers to questions should be as brief as possible, deal with the matter raised and should not provoke debate."

Madam Speaker, I often rise on a point of order when one or two of those provisions are broken, but I think the minister broke all three, and I would like to ask you to call him to order.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Now I am really confused. When the honourable member for St. James stood on her point of order, I did not recognize that she stood on the same point of order that was acknowledged by the honourable member for Thompson. However, the honourable member for Thompson did raise a point of order, and I would request that the honourable Minister of Energy and Mines respond to the question asked and keep his remarks as brief as possible.

Ms. Mihychuk: Madam Speaker, my second question to the minister will be very specific: can the minister explain why his department did not contact the mining companies about placing these students in this prospecting course into a practical field experience until after the mining field season was over? The field season was over, and the students were at the door. Bungling.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. Newman: Madam Speaker, I will endeavour to get a full explanation so that I am not going to attribute any interpretations of what happened in any way that may be confusing to the honourable member for St. James. I will undertake to do that from the Mining Association of Manitoba who indeed does have a perspective on that and has communicated with my department to make sure, as I said, that no deficiencies will occur in the program in future.

Ms. Mihychuk: Madam Speaker, can the minister explain, given last year the program was a disaster and did not get completed, given the strong support from the mineral industry, why he did not revamp the program and run it this year, given the crisis in the shortage of prospectors in Manitoba? If he believes that there is a need, why did he not do it this year?

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. Newman: Madam Speaker, for the record, in response to the question, the prospectors' involvement in any programs is reflected by the number of applications that they make to source funding for those kinds of programs. Although we had funding available in the amounts of $100,000 a year from 1992-93 through '95-96, only $47,000 to $80,000--$97,000 in one year--an excess was applied for. In 1996-97, and I might say granted on a supplemental basis, $150,000 was available, $89,000 applied for; '97-98, $150,000 was available, $122,000 applied for. So this year we made $125,000 available in anticipation that hopefully all of it will be applied for, and if more is applied for, I would certainly seek supplemental funding from Treasury Board.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, yesterday in Estimates debate, the Minister of Natural Resources confirmed that Linnet Graphics is going to maintain its control of the data that it amassed over the last five years on behalf of the province. While he acknowledged the province owns the data, Linnet will be the entry point for gaining access to the data and will pay the province royalties when data are accessed through the Linnet gateway.

Madam Speaker, my question to the minister: why in the world, when you have severed or supposedly severed your monopoly relationship with Linnet, are you letting it be a supplier of data that was collected by the province, with the province's money in the public sector? Why is the province not supplying that data at appropriate charges or free in order to encourage development?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, we do.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, the minister contradicts what he said in Estimates yesterday.

Madam Speaker: Question.

Mr. Sale: He indicated--

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Sale: Will the minister tell the House how it is that his answer yesterday was that Linnet would continue to provide data amassed by Linnet with provincial funds and pay royalties to the province, if he is now contradicting himself and saying today they are not doing that? Which is true?

Mr. Cummings: Madam Speaker, I think perhaps both the member for Crescentwood and I should peruse Hansard, because what I indicated was that there are often times when we are able to provide and do provide information, the same information that Linnet may well be providing.

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Whether you live in St. Vital, Riel, Transcona or anywhere else in rural and northern Manitoba, Madam Speaker, the purchase of a new home is likely to be the largest single investment any family would make. The Wakaluk family in Transcona purchased a new home recently and received occupancy approval from Kensington Homes. The family moved in and subsequently found the construction incomplete only after encountering health problems in the meantime.

In the eyes of the family, the builder and the New Home Warranty Program have been less than fully co-operative, Madam Speaker. I want to ask the Minister of Labour, who is responsible for building codes in this province, to undertake an investigation to see whether or not the City of Winnipeg and perhaps other municipalities are performing final inspections of these new homes before the occupancy permits are issued and before the families move into these buildings?

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Labour): I will endeavour to get that information for the member.

Mr. Reid: I want to ask the Minister of Labour if he will undertake to have his Building Standards Board undertake a review of the practices of builders allowing occupancy of homes before the construction is complete to ensure that families' safety and health is protected? Will he refer that matter to his Building Standards Board?

Mr. Gilleshammer: I will endeavour to review that matter.

Mr. Reid: I want to ask the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs, Madam Speaker, to undertake to lend the full weight of his department to ensure that the Wakaluk family, and perhaps others, are protected in such matters, since the New Home Warranty Program will not acknowledge a formal complaint as long as the builder picks away at some of the complaints, a process which can take a number of years, disadvantaging the families in these new homes.

Mr. Gilleshammer: Madam Speaker, my honourable friend has brought forward some information, and in the past it has not always been totally accurate. I have indicated that I will review this matter and certainly get back to him.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Speaker, earlier in Question Period, my colleague the member for Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson) raised some very serious questions about the impact of price gouging in northern communities.

What I would like to ask the provincial government, given the fact that the real concern in those communities came from the fact that they were dependent on winter roads which were not accessible due to the weather, and given the fact that this government has done very little to look at extending the all-weather road system in the province, I would like to ask the Minister of Highways whether he will now look at the request, the repeated request from many northern communities to start looking at planning future roads access to be extended to those communities that do not have roads in northern Manitoba.

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Madam Speaker, we look at roads all over the province but particularly in the North where access to communities is limited in many cases to air, and the only road access is winter roads in the wintertime. I can tell the member that we are looking at that and will, over the course of time, hopefully come up with solutions that serve some communities.

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Mr. Ashton: Madam Speaker, I am wondering, as a supplementary, whether the minister will listen to communities, for example, such as the community of York Landing which does not have road access, which have indicated their interest in becoming involved directly in the construction of all-weather road access that would give them year-round access instead of the seasonal access they have now.

Will he work with those communities and start planning for the future of northern Manitoba by trying to extend the road network of Manitoba into those northern communities?

Mr. Findlay: Madam Speaker, I am sure the member recognizes that one of the biggest stumbling blocks is dollars. I think I have received support from members opposite that the federal government has a responsibility in assisting all 10 provinces, two territories in this country in dealing with the road challenges we have in terms of building and maintaining roads that serve all communities all over Manitoba and all over Canada. I think that support is there, and I hope it continues to be there.

We on this side continue to work to get more dollars from a federal partner that should be playing a role.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.