Mr. Chairperson (Ben Sveinson): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This section of the Committee of Supply will be considering the Estimates of the Seniors Directorate. Does the honourable Minister responsible for Seniors have an opening statement?

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister responsible for Seniors): Yes, I do, Mr. Chairperson. As Minister responsible for Seniors, I am pleased to present the 1999-2000 budget Estimates for the Seniors Directorate. Seniors are the fastest growing segment of our society. In 1996, there were 152,165 citizens over the age of 65 in Manitoba. This was 13.6 percent of the population. Today, that number has increased to over 156,000 seniors. We know that this number is going to continue to increase dramatically in the years to come. Between the years 2011 and 2021 with most baby boomers retiring or retired, our senior population is projected to increase 231,200. The Manitoba population projections include 29,900 persons aged 85 and over. This is nearly double our 1991 figures. The growth in the numbers of seniors is occurring not only because of the aging of this population segment but also because of the increased life spans of both men and women. The overall health and the well-being of seniors has shown continuing improvement throughout the century. Life expectancies continue to increase as seniors overall health status improves. The 1996 Statistics Canada survey, Aging and Independence, reported that seniors between the ages of 65 and 69 report excellent or good health. At the age of 80 and over, 57 percent of the seniors continue to report excellent or good health.

Statistics from Manitoba Health from June of 1997 show that 12,576 people over the age of 65 were admitted to Home Care. This compares to 11,337 in 1995. A large portion of today's seniors are well educated, healthy and have greater disposable income than ever before. Consequently, seniors lifestyles and expectations are changing. As Minister responsible for Seniors, I have continued to reflect the changing expectations and needs of Manitoba seniors at the cabinet table. The Seniors Directorate also continues to work diligently to ensure that seniors needs and concerns are addressed in the development of government policies and programs. They work closely with government, nongovernment and community-based agencies which impact on the life of seniors. The directorate works in partnership with the community to address the needs of seniors throughout Manitoba. They have a close working relationship with Manitoba senior groups allowing the directorate to continue its ongoing dialogue with seniors.

The following are some of the highlights of 1998. In my discussion with seniors and representatives of seniors organizations, the concern for individual safety and security of older persons continues to be a very important issue. The growth of the number of seniors who are relatively healthy but who may be increasingly frail due to longevity brings them in an increasing demand for government attention to the safety and security needs of seniors. The Seniors Directorate is part of a federal provincial working group which is working on three key areas. These areas focus on prevention efforts which will increase awareness and promote safety and security within the communities.

The areas being looked at are: Injury prevention. By enhancing injury prevention we hope to minimize the overall number of injuries and injury-related deaths to seniors. Crime prevention and abuse of elderly. These areas all entail public awareness and the sharing of information across Canada. Ministers responsible for Seniors continue to meet to exchange ideas and work co-operatively and effectively to address the needs of our older populations. In 1997-98, we affirmed our joint commitment to include seniors perspectives and needs in relevant legislation, policy and program initiatives, and to continue to work co-operatively to this end. I am pleased to say that ministers from across Canada are continuing to work on the key issues of importance to seniors today: safety and security, palliative and continuing care, as well as supportive housing for older persons.

As I mentioned last year, we are developing a national database of federal, provincial and territorial policies and programs for seniors. This project is in the final stages. This database will be for use with the National Framework on Aging. It will contain information on health, social housing and income supported programs, and other services.

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In 1997, a set of principles and policy questions were developed in collaboration with seniors across the country. The five principles are based on what seniors expressed as their consistent values and aspirations for a high quality of life: security, independence, dignity, participation and fairness. These principles enable the application of a seniors lens to government initiatives at all levels. The principles and the policy questions contained in a guide entitled Principles of the National Framework on Aging: A Policy Guide was completed and distributed in 1998. This project spans three years and will provide government departments with a unique tool to enhance their ability to meet the needs and the priorities of the older citizens.

The Seniors Directorate continued to be the central point of contact for seniors and their organizations. The Seniors Information Line was again well used by seniors and their families, providing them with information, assistance and referral. The type of calls received reflect the issues and the concerns of seniors throughout Manitoba. In 1998-99, there were over 6,000 calls received on the Seniors Information Line. This represents a continued increase in the number of calls requesting information assistance. This does not include the additional calls made by the directorate on behalf of the callers to various departments and services.

The computerized housing directory which is maintained by the directorate continues to be a popular resource for seniors looking for a place to live. The directory lists rental units, condominiums, townhouses, mobile homes and residences for seniors, 55 and over, around the province. The list includes housing available for rent, purchase, or life lease. The directorate reviews and updates this list on an ongoing basis.

Directorate staff supported the Manitoba Council on Aging in undertaking its function as an advisory body to the Minister responsible for Seniors (Mr. Reimer). The insight and the recommendations from the council have been an invaluable resource in providing a direct link between the older Manitobans and our government. The Manitoba Council on Aging held consultation meetings with seniors in various communities in Manitoba. Seniors in Churchill, Swan River and Russell met with the council to discuss concerns regarding health care, pensions, housing, transportation and other issues of concern.

The directorate continues to play a leading role in the area on abuse of the elderly. With the concept that service delivery reflects our values, the directorate provided abuse training workshops in 1997 for professionals in various disciplines. Abuse of the elderly is a multifaceted problem which must be acknowledged and addressed.

Through other eyes, the training workshop targeted at business and agencies providing services accessed by seniors was launched last year. These two-hour workshops help businesses and organizations see their establishments through the eyes of the seniors. The aim is to remove physical and psychological barriers that may discourage seniors from using their services, products and facilities. Staff delivered workshops to retail, banking, and government departments to provide services or interact with seniors. For instance, all drivers' testers and clerical staff of the Motor Vehicle's licence office in Manitoba completed their course in 1998. Participants stated that the training had increased their knowledge of seniors and made them reassess how they communicate and interact with older citizens.

In June of 1998 during Seniors Month, special celebrations were held in The Pas, Altona, Winnipeg, St. Vital and at Assiniboine Park. Each year the directorate works with host seniors groups to plan these events. My columns in Seniors Today and MSOS General continue to receive a very positive response. Seniors have told me that the information is useful and helpful.

In 1998-99, the seniors handbook was given a facelift and released with a new name and title, The Manitoba Seniors Guide. This new guide is supported by advertisers which allow the directorate and the Council on Aging to update and distribute a new edition each year. This ensures that information Manitoba seniors receive is current and accurate.

In 1992, the United Nations Assembly designated 1999 as the International Year of the Older Persons. The United Nations theme for this year is Canada: A Society for all Ages. It will foster a worldwide awareness of the importance of seniors roles in society and the importance of intergenerational harmony, respect and support.

In October of 1998, it was my pleasure to launch IYOP in Manitoba and announce the theme for Manitoba would be Manitoba: A Province for all Ages. During 1999, I believe IYOP initiatives will not only affect the way we, as Manitobans, view the aging process but will enhance the respect and understanding between generations.

The Manitoba Council on Aging presented their recognition award to seven Manitoba recipients on June 26, 1998. The intent of this recognition is to honour organizations, businesses and individuals whose efforts have benefited Manitoba seniors. It also recognizes services and initiatives that reflect a positive attitude towards older Manitobans. The seven recipients honoured in 1998 were Leo Fillion of Great Falls; Dennis Storsley of Winnipeg; Frances Roesler of Hudson; Frances Labarre of Flin Flon; Heather McCaine-Davies of Oakbank; Florence Remus of Emerson; and also the Arborg Credit Union.

Some of the initiative plans in 1999-2000 include safety and security, which continues to be a priority for my government. During 1999-2000, the Seniors Directorate will be providing assistance to victims of abuse, their families and concerned citizens through the newly established elder abuse line. This confidential service will provide information, support and referral. As well, the directorate will have an elder abuse consultant who will provide educational workshops and seminars for professionals, seniors organizations and services in the community at large. The consultant will work with communities to develop appropriate responses and act as a resource for communities. We want to ensure that seniors are well informed and aware of the preventable measures. It is equally important that communities are prepared and able to meet the needs of the older victims. My staff also continues to participate on a network of interagencies' representatives on safety and security.

During 1999, the Manitoba Seniors Directorate will act as a central contact for the International Year of the Older Person. It will publish events across Manitoba, share ideas and provide assistance wherever possible. The theme for Manitoba is Manitoba: A Province for all Ages. A special grants program has been established to stimulate activities throughout the province. Many of the projects will be intergenerational in scope and will involve not only seniors but also youth and school-age children. This year will provide Manitobans with the opportunity to enhance communication between the citizens of all ages and build bridges of understanding between generations.

As part of the Manitoba government's celebration of IYOP, the Seniors Directorate and the Manitoba Council on Aging have produced an educational video that conveys positive messages about aging and the older persons to school children. By exposing as many elementary school students as possible to images of healthy aging, the video will leave an enduring mark on the youth of today once IYOP has officially ended.

As part of its educational mandate, the Seniors Directorate will continue to offer Through Other Eyes to raise awareness of the special needs of aging adults and people with disabilities. Responses from business and service providers have been encouraging. Those who have used the training within their organizations reported that it enabled them to make positive change which benefited their older customers.

The directorate continues to respond to requests for educational print material on topics most requested by older persons such as legal, health care and safety. The senior citizen guide, the eighth edition, is now being distributed by the Council on Aging. The Manitoba Council on Aging will continue to honour Manitoba citizens with the recognition awards for exceptional acts which benefit seniors for those valuable services which reflect a positive attitude towards our older persons. Awards will be presented at a recognition ceremony to be held at the Legislative Building in June of 1999.

Physical activity is one of the most important things seniors can do to maintain their physical and their mental health. Their ability to live independent lives often depends on seniors being able to do things for themselves. The Seniors Directorate is working with a planning group to involve key Manitoba organizations and departments who are in a position to contribute to the health and the well-being of older persons in Manitoba to develop an active living summit for seniors. The purpose of the summit is to promote the concept of healthy active living with older adults and to improve and enhance their quality of life. This summit will be held in September of 1999. It will generate partnerships to develop a provincial strategy plan for the enhancement of active living. Bringing together a cross-section of citizens from communities throughout Manitoba will enable them to identify opportunities and examine the strengths, the weaknesses, and the barriers to active living for seniors. Seniors will, of course, have an important leadership role in all aspects of the summit.

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As Minister responsible for Seniors, I will continue to actively participate at federal, provincial and territory meetings of ministers of Seniors across Canada. I will continue my commitment and support for development of the National Framework on Aging. I will also continue to collaborate with other jurisdictions on common issues, such as the enhancement of safety and security for seniors, sharing models of service delivery to maximize quality care to older persons.

I remain committed to increasing awareness of the choices pertaining to palliative care and the sharing of best practices in the provision of supportive housing. I will continue to support and attend activities for the International Year of Older Persons in 1999. I will continue to voice and represent the aspirations and the priorities of seniors for consideration in all undertakings of this government. To this end, a two-way communication system for the sharing of ideas and visions and planning is critical.

In closing, I believe the Seniors Directorate and the Manitoba Council on Aging are continuing to fulfill an invaluable role within government by ensuring that we are meeting the needs of Manitoba seniors to the maximum extent possible. Thank you, Mr. Chairperson.

Mr. Chairperson: We thank the Minister responsible for Seniors for those comments. Does the official opposition critic, the honourable member for Broadway, have an opening statement?

Mr. Conrad Santos (Broadway): Yes, Mr. Chairperson. I would like to start with a statement that I want to focus my comments on the significance of 1999 as the International Year of Older Persons. Given that 1999 has been designated by the General Assembly of the United Nations as the International Year of Older Persons, I would like to say that all this importance called by the United Nations Assembly from basic documents such as the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, as well as the International Plan of Action on Aging.

For the purpose of discussion of the International Year of the Older Person, I would rather pin my remarks on what I consider the five basic values enunciated by various documents which form the nucleus of the significance of the International Year of the Older Person. I will categorize these values as (1) the value of dignity; (2) autonomy; (3) participation; (4) care; (5) self-actualization. So I will discuss each topical heading and will restate the principles involved, and maybe we can illustrate it with some activities of government and nonprofit organizations.

Let us start with the topical heading of the value of dignity. The various principles associated with dignity are stated as follows. The first principle, older persons should be able to live in dignity and security and be free of exploitation and physical and mental abuse. To live in dignity, one must have security. If a person is insecure in his person or property or anything related to his well-being, how can one say that he lives in dignity? Dignity is the respectability that we give to a fellow human being on the basis of his being a member of humanity. To be able to live in dignity a person has to be respected as a person of equal worth and importance.

I am just reminded of Rodney Dangerfield, who has been filming a movie in Vancouver and who is in the news today. He has built his career on the statement that he gets no respectability. Respectability, therefore, hits the chord in everyone's heart, and therefore we should be able to be cognizant of the fact that our senior citizens are entitled to such respectability and dignity as a human being.

This comedian, Rodney Dangerfield, has won a lot of awards by his theme of no respect. In the paper today, I will cite some of his joke lines that gives him this prominence in the world of entertainment. He said, for example, I am a bad lover, you know. I was caught peeping by a peeping tom and he booed me. Next joke: I told my wife that a man is like a good wine; he gets better with age. So she locked me in the cellar in our home. Next joke: When I was a kid I had nothing. I was poor, really poor. My rich aunt died and in the will I found out I owed her $20. He said that he was an ugly kid, so one day he got lost at the beach and he asked a policeman if he could find his parents. The policeman said I do not know, there are lots of hiding places for your parents. He said he consulted his family tree and he found out that he was just a sap.

A man with no respect has a difficult existence. He said he bought himself some rat poison and the girl said: Should I wrap it or are you going to eat it here? One time, when he says his house was on fire, the wife told the kids: Be quiet, do not wake your daddy up.

So respectability is part of life; so is humour. Without the sense of humour, indeed life would be very dull and so routine that we might not like to live it. Dignity is an essential part of our humanity but, as I said, security is a precondition to such a sense of dignity. Without that, a person cannot have any respect, cannot be looked upon, and can always be subject to abuse by others. Abusive treatment by those who refuse to recognize the dignity of the older person or any other person for that matter sometimes leads to physical, mental or even financial abuses. We know that most abuses suffered by seniors are physiological, if not financial, in nature.

G. K. Chesterton once observed that when people begin to ignore human dignity it will not be long before they will also ignore human rights, because if you look at a person and he is without respect, without dignity, of course, you are liable to abuse his basic political rights as well as other rights. So that is the first topic that is essential that we should preserve in this year of the elderly, the dignity of the person, not only in words, but in our behaviour, in our dealings with other people, in our relationships particularly with the older person.

Words as you see, you have heard this new guy who replaced Peter Warren. What is his name? [interjection] Chuck Adler said talk, talk, talk, talk. There is a lot of talk in the world, but what we want is behaviour, the actual behaviour of people in our dealings with seniors. They are entitled to dignity and respect.

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That is the first principle we stated. Older persons should be able to live in dignity and security and be free of exploitation and physical or mental abuse. A second principle related to this value of dignity states that the older person should be treated fairly, regardless of how old he is, his age, or his gender or racial or ethnic background or even a disability or other status; he should be valued as a person independently of his or her economic contributions to society. The individual, being a member of humanity, should be treated fairly at all times, but then we will say, life is not fair. There are some people who enjoy certain privileges that other people do not enjoy, not because of the natural order of things in the actual world.

I just read in the paper today when I was scanning the Winnipeg Sun that, when the police busted this escort service, there is a ban from the courts. It affected only those privileged people like professors and medical doctors and judges and other high-ranking people who frequent all this legitimized escort service, which, we know, is an undercover for the oldest profession in the world, but the ordinary working man who wants to have the free time sometimes will get his name published, but not these high-ranking people.

Very recently, we can illustrate this also with the court treatment of a policeman of seven years service who happened to be off duty when he took a girl on a motorbike ride, and the girl consented without a helmet. She died when the motorcycle hit a post, and it turned out that he did not get the penalty that is attributable to the death of the woman. He only got the penalty for refusing to submit to a breathalyzer test.

Life is not really fair as soon as we consider the artificial distinctions in society accorded certain people because of their status or their rank or their vocations or profession in life, but it is an ideal principle that everyone should be treated fairly, particularly our senior citizens. If we cannot accord any such senior the human dignity that he or she deserves, we are prone to treat such a person with prejudice.

Prejudice can take place on an individual basis as well as on a group basis. When prejudice takes place on a group basis, the discriminatory treatment is usually enshrined in some laws, some rules, some norms. Normally these rules are formulated by the dominant group in a particular society to protect their interest. For example, in our own society, we should not be free from criticism. Self-criticism is the most important one.

In matters of certification and accreditation, for example, these are rules written by the people who are entrenched in their particular position. In their effort to eliminate the members of minority groups who know how to apply hard work, imagination and better methods than themselves, by their requirements which are sometimes unreasonable these groups are prevented from participating and thereby precluded from exercising their profession, their business in their field of endeavour in order to ensure the position or jobs of those who are already entrenched in them. So institutionalized discrimination is not uncommon even in our own society.

Now, let us go to the second topical heading. This could be a long one, but these I think are important values we have to bear in mind. Cognate to human dignity is the second virtue, the second value that we should remember is important to every individual human being and is what I will call autonomy. Sometimes we call it independence. Autonomy is the degree of flexibility or range of freedom, personal independence, to which the older person should be entitled to, unless, of course, he is restrained by some kind of affliction, physical or otherwise, or some kind of disability.

One principle that will promote basic human autonomy and independence is the principle that asserts that the older person should have access to adequate food, water, shelter, clothing, health care through the provision of adequate income, of family and community support and facilities for self-help. To be truly autonomous and independent an individual who is hungry or lacking some basic necessity cannot really be autonomous, independent. He will be subservient to the one who possesses and controls all these resources.

So this basic value can only be promoted if we make sure that seniors have adequate income, especially those women who on account of the earlier practice in our industrial and workaday world were not able to work themselves and therefore are very deficient in terms of support in their old age.

Without the basic necessities of life and of living, no one can be expected to be able to feel personally independent in order to do or not to do whatever activities he or she decides. Without adequate food, water, shelter and clothing, no one would be able to keep oneself in good health, much less to be able to feel he is free and independent.

Beyond the basic necessities of life, of course, the older person should have access to appropriate educational and training programs. These are essential in order to retool the person with new knowledge and with new skills. If he is still able to function fruitfully, the elder person should be given opportunities to find ways of using his skills and energies, and if he needs to find employment, have access to some income-generating kind of activities no matter how nominal. For example, we sometimes read in the newspapers some older seniors who are already retired and who make themselves available for some kind of work activities in homes, and they will be able to apply their skills. Once we do not have the opportunity to apply our skills, we gradually lose our skills, as practise and doing activities are essential in human life.

Given that the survival needs of the older person are assured and that he is given the opportunity to exercise his talents in productive ways, then we can rest assured that there is a greater likelihood that the older person will feel and act with autonomy, with independence, with dignity and with self-confidence.

The third value is what we call care for the elderly. No doubt, the older we get, the more personal limitations we have. True, the mind does not get old as long as you use your mind. If you do not use it, you watch TV like a vegetable all the time, it will deteriorate as well. Therefore, every older person should have facilities provided by the family or the community to protect such an older person against all the big decisions of life, not all, but the most difficult ones. The elder person should have access to health care to help such a person to maintain or regain an optimum level of physical, mental and emotional well-being and to prevent or to delay, at least, the onset of illness.

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The elderly person should be able to utilize appropriate levels of institutional care when he needs it. This kind of care will provide protection, rehabilitation, social and mental stimulation in a humane and secure environment.

Moreover, the elderly person should also be able to have access to social, medical, legal services in order to enhance personal protection, autonomy and independence. There are some lawyers here who have some discount rates for seniors, some accountants who help seniors with their financial problems and they give, accordingly, some kind of discounts to senior citizens.

The elderly person should also be able to enjoy his or her basic human rights and fundamental freedom even when residing in a shelter, care or treatment facilities. Such an elderly person should be entitled to full respect for his or her own beliefs, needs for privacy, including the right to make decisions about the nature and level of care that he needs and the quality of life that he or she wants to live. Such care can only be possible if there is co-operation in the family circle, as well as in the community at large.

The fourth topical heading in this year of the elderly is what we call participation. The older person should be able to participate actively in the formulation and implementation of policies, especially those policies that directly affect his or her well-being, including the opportunity to share acquired knowledge and skills with members of the younger generations. For example, due to the enthusiastic participation of many older persons, even the hated Prime Minister, Brian Mulroney, had desisted from clawing back the security pensions for the elderly. The former Prime Minister considered this a sacred trust, and if it is a sacred trust he should not claw it back.

A more recent example of the efficacy of political participation of the senior citizen was the federal government's proposal to integrate the Old Age Security Program and the Guaranteed Income Supplement into a new kind of program they call the seniors benefit program. Apprised of the effects of the federal proposal introducing and eliminating the Old Age Security payments at certain income levels, the seniors organized and protested in a co-ordinated fashion such that on July 28, 1998, the federal Minister of Finance, Paul Martin, Jr. announced, and I quote: "In the light of the structural enhancement to the public pension system, the turnaround in the country's economic prospects, and because of our commitment to sound fiscal management, the government is today announcing that the proposed seniors benefit will not proceed. The existing Old Age Security and the Guaranteed Income Supplement will be maintained."

On the following day, July 29, 1998, Al Cerilli, well-known labour leader now retired, he is a member at large for the Congress of Union Retirees of Canada Executive. He withdrew his application for funding from the Court Challenges Program of Canada, an application that was made possible so that the stakeholders forum to debate this issue of the seniors benefit program could be thrashed out so that it can be debated whether or not such a program would violate the rights of man, and, in particular, women individually and as a whole under Section 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

We know what that provision in the Charter of Rights provides, equality rights it is called, 15.1 says every individual is equal before and under the law and has a right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination, and in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

The older person should be able to seek and to develop opportunities for service to the community. He should be able to serve as volunteers in many positions appropriate to his own interests and capabilities. The older person should be able to form movements and associations of older persons for purposes of promoting objectives that they commonly share.

Finally, we come to the last topic or the last value, the last of the five values that we are actually trying to analyze. This is the value of self actualization. Self actualization means that the elderly should be able to pursue opportunities to the fullest development of his or her potential as a human being. Self-actualization means self-fulfilment to the highest possible degree of self-development. Therefore, it is essential that the elderly person be given access to cultural, recreational, educational and spiritual facilities and resources of society.

In Canada, when the various federal, provincial and territorial ministers of the Crown responsible for seniors agreed to establish a 15-member Canada co-ordinating committee to spearhead the implementation of the principles and values enunciated by the various documents promulgated and approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations, these ministers also approved the theme, as the minister had intimated in his opening statement, a society for all ages, under the heading of which Canada's co-ordinating committee are called upon to promote the following five objectives, and I quote them: first, to enhance understanding, harmony and mutual support across generations; second, to increase recognition of seniors contributions to their families, their communities and country; third, to improve understanding by all Canadians of how individual and societal choices and decisions made today will affect individuals in our society in the future.

Mr. Chairperson: Order, please. I hate to interrupt the member, but the time is twelve o'clock. When we next convene, the member will have four minutes remaining. Committee rise.