VOL

TIME – 6 p.m.

LOCATION – Winnipeg, Manitoba

CHAIRPERSON – Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski (St. James)

VICE-CHAIRPERSON – Mr. Bidhu Jha (Radisson)

ATTENDANCE – 11 QUORUM – 6

Members of the Committee present:

Hon. Messrs. Mackintosh, Smith

Mr. Dewar, Mrs. Driedger, Messrs. Hawranik, Jha, Ms. Korzeniowski, Messrs. Maloway, Penner, Reimer, Swan

APPEARING:

Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson, MLA for River East

WITNESSES:

Bill 10–The Convention Centre Corporation Amendment Act

Mr. Klaus Lahr, The Convention Centre Corporation

WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS:

Bill 2–The Private Investigators and Security Guards Amendment Act

Mr. Lanny McInnes, Retail Council of Canada

MATTERS UNDER CONSIDERATION:

Bill 2–The Private Investigators and Security Guards Amendment Act

Bill 3–The Enforcement of Canadian Judgments Act

Bill 8–The Official Time Amendment Act

Bill 10–The Convention Centre Corporation Amendment Act

* * *

Clerk Assistant (Ms. JoAnn McKerlie-Korol): Good evening. Will the Standing Committee on Justice please come to order.

The first item of business is the election of a chairperson. Are there any nominations?

Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): I nominate Ms. Korzeniowski.

Clerk Assistant: Are there any further nominations? Seeing none, Ms. Korzeniowski, would you please take the Chair as appointed Chairperson.

Madam Chairperson: The next item of business is the election of a Vice-Chairperson. Are there any nominations?

Mr. Dewar: Madam Chair, I nominate Mr. Jha.

Madam Chairperson: Are there any further nominations? Seeing none, Mr. Jha has been appointed Vice-Chairperson.

This evening the committee will be considering the following bills: Bill 2, The Private Investigators and Security Guards Amendment Act; Bill 3, The Enforcement of Canadian Judgments Act; Bill 8, The Official Time Amendment Act; and Bill 10, The Convention Centre Corporation Amendment Act.

We do have a presenter registered to speak to Bill 10. It is the custom to hear public presentations before consideration of bills. Is it the will of the committee to hear public presentations on this bill? [Agreed]

Mr. Klaus Lahr, representing the Convention Centre Corporation, has registered to speak to Bill 10. That is the organization that has registered so far. If there is anybody else in the audience that would like to register or who has not yet registered and would like to make a presentation, would you please register at the back of the room. Just a reminder that 20 copies of your presentation are required. If you require assistance with photocopying, please see the Clerk of this committee.

I would like to inform presenters that, in accordance with our rules, a time limit of 10 minutes has been allotted for presentations and five minutes for questions from committee members.

I would also like to inform the committee that a written submission has been received from the following organization: Lanny McInnes, Retail Council of Canada. A copy of this brief was made for committee members and was distributed at the start of the meeting. Does the committee grant its consent to have this written submission appear in the committee transcript for this meeting? [Agreed]

Bill 10–The Convention Centre

Corporation Amendment Act

Madam Chairperson: I now call on Mr. Klaus Lahr, representing the Convention Centre Corporation, to make his presentation. Mr. Lahr, do you have copies of your presentation to distribute to the committee?

Mr. Klaus Lahr (Convention Centre Corporation): Thank you, Madam Chair. No, I do not have any copies. I merely came to be present if there are any questions from the committee in regard to the proposed amendment.

Madam Chairperson: Are there any questions? Seeing no questions, thank you, Mr. Lahr.

* * *

Madam Chairperson: That concludes the list of presenters. Is there anyone else in the audience wishing to make a presentation? Seeing no one else, is it the will of the committee to proceed with clause-by-clause consideration of Bills 2, 3, 8 and 10, and, if yes, in what order do you wish to proceed?

Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): To go in numerical order of the bills.

Madam Chairperson: Is that agreed by the committee? [Agreed]

Bill 2–The Private Investigators and

Security Guards Amendment Act

Madam Chairperson: Does the minister responsible for Bill 2 have an opening statement?

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Just in response to the interest of the Retail Council of Canada in recognizing loss prevention officers as a distinct class of security guards, that is the intention as a result of discussions with the industry on the regulations, because it is important, for example, that requirements on the wearing of uniforms not be mandated for loss prevention officers.

That is the main area of difference, so that was contemplated in the drafting of this scheme.

Madam Chairperson: We thank the minister.

Does the critic from the official opposition have an opening statement?

An Honourable Member: No.

Madam Chairperson: We thank the member.

During the consideration of a bill, the enacting clause and the title are postponed until all other clauses have been considered in their proper order. Also, if there is agreement from the committee, the Chair will call clauses in blocks that conform to pages with the understanding that we will stop at any particular clause or clauses where members may have comments, questions or amendments to propose. Is that agreed? [Agreed]

Shall clauses 1 and 2 pass?

Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): I have a question to the minister. He just indicated that in his opinion the definition section complies with what the Retail Council of Canada has submitted in written form with respect to their interpretation and with respect to how they felt that that provision should be changed.

Seeing that the minister has indicated that the concern of the Retail Council of Canada has been met in the definition section, is he prepared to at least speak to the Retail Council of Canada with respect to that and relay that information to them and satisfy them in that respect?

Mr. Mackintosh: Yes, the definition certainly embraces loss prevention officers, and, as I say, it will be recognized as a distinct class.

There were a couple of other less significant points raised by the Retail Council of Canada, and staff will contact them in the morning to assure them that their concerns are met. The other one was the ability of private corporations like large employers or perhaps even the council to host the training. There is no limit on who can provide the training, and, indeed, we do expect the private sector to be stepping up to provide that maybe at the workplace and maybe jointly.

So I think we have met all their concerns, and certainly it was contemplated in the drafting of the legislation.

Mr. Hawranik: They had that concern about the definition section which the minister just addressed, and they had a second concern, though, with respect to minimum training standards in the bill itself to allow at least those pre-existing training programs to be accredited or at least recognized in the context of what is going to be required in this bill. Is the minister prepared to do that?

* (18:10)

Mr. Mackintosh: Well, that raises two points. First of all, there will be a grandparenting of the requirements. I believe they are looking at 3000 hours when someone will be recognized as being fully qualified just by experience on the job. Second of all, there may be many security guards who far exceed the 40-hour training standard here. For example, I think of our own security guards in Transportation and Government Services at the front door, I suspect they far exceed the requirements. That kind of auditing will be done. As well, the Corps of Commissionaires far exceeds it. But there may be other workplaces, as well, that would qualify, or other individuals that would qualify to be exempted, based on training with their employer or with community colleges or other education providers.

Mr. Hawranik: Can the minister indicate how that evaluation of those existing training programs will take place, who is going to do it and whether the bill, in fact, contemplates that?

Mr. Mackintosh: Manitoba Justice will do that in consultation with employers. I can say there has already been a lot of work done on this by way of the consultation initiative. I mean, the consultation has been extensive. This really is an industry initiative, in large part, which really is then embraced by the legislative change.

Madam Chairperson: Clauses 1 and 2–pass; clauses 3 and 4–pass; clauses 5 through 10–pass; clauses 11 through 14–pass; enacting clause–pass; title–pass. Bill be reported.

Bill 3–The Enforcement of

Canadian Judgments Act

Madam Chairperson: Does the minister responsible for Bill 3 have an opening statement?

Mr. Mackintosh: No.

Madam Chairperson: Does the critic from the official opposition have an opening statement?

Mr. Hawranik: No.

Madam Chairperson: Thank you.

During the consideration of a bill, the table of contents, the enacting clause and the title are postponed until all other clauses have been considered in their proper order. Also, if there is agreement from the committee, the Chair will call clauses in blocks that conform to pages, with the understanding that we will stop at any particular clause or clauses where members may have comments, questions or amendments to propose. Is that agreed? [Agreed]

Clause 1–pass; clause 2–pass; clause 3 through 6–pass. Shall clauses 7 and 8 pass?

Mr. Hawranik: I guess I have one question of the minister with respect to this bill. That is, I know we are recognizing judgments from outside of the province in Manitoba through this bill, but what progress has been made by other jurisdictions to recognize Manitoba judgments in their jurisdictions? Can you give us an update on that?

Mr. Mackintosh: First of all, this legislation is unique in terms of the protection order piece of it. This is the first of its kind, where it will be enforceable in Manitoba without having to register with the court. It will be enforceable on the face of it by law enforcement. In terms of the monetary or other aspects of the legislation, there was an earlier recommended draft that went out. Several provinces, including British Columbia, Yukon, Saskatchewan and Nova Scotia, have enacted those provisions, but they have not proclaimed them. Of course, what goes into the proclamation will be the necessary rules of court changes. I think that is the key proclamation activity.

So four jurisdictions that I am advised of are in the process of moving along. I am sure that member sees that this legislation is important in terms of protection orders, but it has a very important role in recognizing the rights of creditors to collect debts across the country. I think, when we have an integrated economy, presumably, in this country, this is an important initiative for corporations to realize on their amounts owing to them.

Mr. Hawranik: There are still five provinces left over and a couple of territories as well. Is there any indication as to when they are going to be enacting legislation similar to this in their jurisdictions?

Mr. Mackintosh: This legislation follows on the Uniform Law Conference which met in late August.

So this came out of the Uniform Law Conference which just met in August, so we expect to see the introduction of this legislation over the course of this year, depending on people's legislative agendas.

Madam Chairperson: Clause 7–pass; clause 8–pass; clause 9–pass; clause 10–pass; clause 11–pass; clause 12–pass; clause 13–pass; clause 14–pass; clause 15–pass; clause 16–pass; clause 17–pass; clause 18–pass; clause 19–pass; table of contents–pass; enacting clause–pass; title–pass. Bill be reported.

Bill 8–The Official Time Amendment Act

Madam Chairperson: Does the minister responsible for Bill 8 have an opening statement?

Hon. Scott Smith (Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and Trade): Madam Chair, I think the bill is very self-explanatory. The bill basically comes into conformance with a lot of the changes that will happen in the United States with the daylight-saving time changes that they are making. Many of the other provinces are now moving to this. We got a lot of advice from the trucking industry and a lot of the businesses in Manitoba and this basically comes into the same conformance bill that the changes will be met in 2007 by the United States.

Madam Chairperson: We thank the minister.

Does the critic from the official opposition have an opening statement?

During the consideration of a bill, the enacting clause and the title are postponed until all other clauses have been considered in their proper order.

Clause 1–pass; clause 2–pass; clause 3–pass; enacting clause–pass; title–pass. Bill be reported.

Bill 10–The Convention Centre

Corporation Amendment Act

Madam Chairperson: Does the minister responsible for Bill 10 have an opening statement?

Mr. Smith: Madam Chair, just very quickly, this bill comes on the advice of the Convention Centre and the Convention Centre board. The bill is a positive move, moving public representation onto the board with competency skills for members of the board.

It is something that they believe is something that is needed with very specific skills to reduce the amount of city councillors that will be on the board and more public representation and specific skill sets that are needed. Thank you.

Madam Chairperson: We thank the minister.

Does the critic from the official opposition have an opening statement?

* (18:20)

Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): Madam Chair, I just want to say that I would like to commend the board and the staff at the Convention Centre, the administration, for the good work that they do. I think our Convention Centre is a showcase for our city. Having attended many events at the Convention Centre, I know, dealing with organizing events, that we have nothing but professional service and great support. So I just want to say to those that run and manage the Convention Centre, "A job well done. Congratulations and keep up the good work."

Madam Chairperson: We thank the member.

During the consideration of a bill, the enacting clause and the title are postponed until all other clauses have been considered in their proper order. Also, if there is agreement from the committee, the Chair will call clauses in blocks that conform to pages, with the understanding that we will stop at any particular clause or clauses where members may have comments, questions or amendments to propose. Is that agreed? [Agreed]

Clauses 1 and 2–pass; clauses 3 through 6–pass; clauses 7 through 10–pass; clause 11–pass; enacting clause–pass; title–pass. Bill be reported.

That concludes the business before this committee. What is the will of the committee?

An Honourable Member: Rise.

Madam Chairperson: The hour being 6:21 p.m., committee rise.

COMMITTEE ROSE AT: 6:21 p.m.

WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS PRESENTED

BUT NOT READ

Bill 2–The Private Investigators and Security Guards Amendment Act

Mr. Lanny McInnes, Retail Council of Canada