LEGISLATIVE
ASSEMBLY OF
Wednesday,
December 11, 1991
The House met at 1:30
p.m.
PRAYERS
ROUTINE
PROCEEDINGS
Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for Sturgeon Creek, I
have reviewed the petition and it conforms with the privileges and practices of
the House and complies with the rules.
Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?
Mr. Clerk (William
Remnant): To the Legislature of the
The
petition of the undersigned, The Salvation Army Grace
THAT
The
WHEREFORE
your petitioner humbly prays that the Legislature of the
AND
as in duty bound your petitioner will ever pray.
PRESENTING
REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES
Mr. Leonard Evans
(Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the First Report
of the committee on Public Accounts.
Mr. Clerk (William
Remnant): Your Standing Committee on Public Accounts
presents the following as its First Report.
Your
committee met on Tuesday, January 29, 1991, at 10 a.m., and Wednesday, January
30, 1991, at 2 p.m. in Room 255 of the
Your
committee also met on Thursday, April 4, 1991, at 10 a.m. to consider the
aforementioned reports and Volume 3 of the Public Accounts for the fiscal year
ended March 31, 1989, and Volumes 1, 2 and 3 of the Public Accounts for the
fiscal year ended March 31, 1990.
Your
committee also met on December 10, 1991, at 10 a.m. to consider all of the
aforementioned reports and the Supplement to the Provincial Auditor's Report
for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1990.
On
January 29, 1991, your committee elected Mr. Evans (Brandon East) as its
Chairperson.
On
January 29, 1991, your committee accepted the resignations of Mr. Sveinson,
Mrs. Vodrey, Mr. McAlpine, Mrs. Render, Hon. Mr. Neufeld and Hon. Mr. Orchard
as members of the committee, and elected Mrs. McIntosh, Mr. Reimer, Mr. Helwer,
Mr. Laurendeau, Hon. Mr. Downey and Hon. Mrs. Mitchelson to replace them.
On
January 30, 1991, your committee accepted the resignations of Hon. Mrs.
Mitchelson, Mrs. McIntosh and Mr. Helwer as members of the committee and
elected Mr. Rose, Hon. Mr. Neufeld and Hon. Mr. Orchard to replace them.
Your
committee received all information desired by any member at the January 29,
January 30, April 4 and December 10, 1991, meetings from the Minister of
Finance, staff from the Department of Finance, and from Mr. Fred Jackson,
Provincial Auditor. Mr. Stan Puchniak,
Assistant Deputy Minister, provided information at the January 29 and 30, 1991,
meetings. Mr. Rick Mayer, Director of
Special Audits, provided information at the January 29, 1991, meeting. Mr. Charlie Curtis, Deputy Minister of the
Department of Finance provided information at the April 4 and December 10, 1991,
meetings. Ms. Carol Bellringer,
Assistant Provincial Auditor, and Mr. Warren Johnson, Director of Professional
Practices, provided information at the December 10, 1991, meeting. Information was provided with respect to the
receipts, expenditures and other matters pertaining to the business of the
province. The fullest opportunity was
accorded to all members of the committee to examine vouchers or any documents
called for and no restriction was placed upon the line of examination.
Your
committee finds that the receipts and expenditures of the monies have been
carefully set forth and all monies properly accounted for.
At
the December 10, 1991, meeting, your committee adopted the following motion:
"THAT
the Public Accounts Committee adopt in principle the following recommendations
of the Provincial Auditor for use in the operations of the Public Accounts
Committee:
1) That the Committee, to be most effective,
carry out its responsibilities on a more
timely basis
2) That the Committee consider adopting a
working agenda
3) that notice of factual questions which
require reasonably detailed answers to
be raised at committee meetings should
be provided in advance of the meeting whenever
possible."
Your
committee has considered Volumes 1, 2 and 3 of the Public Accounts for the
fiscal years ended March 31, 1989 and March 31, 1990, and the Report of the
Provincial Auditor and Supplements for the fiscal years ended March 31, 1989 and
1990, and has adopted the same as presented.
All
of which is respectfully submitted.
Mr. Leonard Evans: I move, seconded by the honourable member for
Rupertsland (Mr. Harper), that the report of the committee be received.
Motion agreed to.
TABLING OF
REPORTS
Hon. Leonard Derkach
(Minister of Education and Training): Over the
last two days I attended the Council of Ministers of Education meeting and for
the information of members in this House, I would like to table a communique on
student financial assistance.
Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson
(Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship): I have the pleasure of tabling several
reports: the
INTRODUCTION
OF BILLS
Bill 9‑The
Economic Innovation and Technology Council Act
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): I move, seconded by the honourable Minister
of Rural Development (Mr. Downey), that Bill 9, The Economic Innovation and
Technology Council Act; Loi sur le Conseil de l'innovation economique et de la
technologie, be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first
time.
His
Honour the Lieutenant‑Governor, having been advised of the contents of
this bill, recommends it to the House.
Motion agreed to.
Mr. Speaker: The honourable First Minister has tabled the
report.
* (1335)
Bill 2‑The
Environmental Bill of Rights
Ms. Marianne Cerilli
(Radisson): I move that Bill 2, The Environmental Bill of
Rights; Code de protection de l'environnement, be introduced and that the same
be now received and read for the first time.
I
would also like to take the opportunity to describe the principles of the bill.
It
will be seconded by the member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale).
Motion presented.
Ms. Cerilli: The principles behind this bill are that the
public has the right to a healthy environment, and also that the public has the
right to access the courts and tribunals, including the right to sue polluters
to protect the environment. We need to
have increased public participation in environmental decision making, that
increased government responsibility and accountability for the environment are
required and that greater protection for employees who blow the whistle on
polluting employers is required. This
bill will ensure that residents and citizens of the
Motion agreed to.
Bill 5‑The
Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister
responsible for the Status of Women): Mr.
Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Family Services (Mr.
Gilleshammer), that Bill 5, The
Motion agreed to.
Bill 6‑The
Denturists Amendment Act
Hon. Donald Orchard
(Minister of Health): I move, seconded by
the Minister of Highways and Transportation (Mr. Driedger), that Bill 6, The
Denturists Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur les denturologistes, be
introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.
Motion agreed to.
Bill 7‑The
Real Property Amendment Act
Hon. James McCrae
(Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the
Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), that Bill 7, The Real Property Amendment
Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur les biens reels, be introduced and that the same
be now received and read a first time.
Motion agreed to.
Bill 8‑The
Garnishment Amendment Act
Hon. James McCrae
(Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I
move, seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), that Bill 8, The
Garnishment Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur la saisie‑arret, be
introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.
Motion agreed to.
* (1340)
Bill 10‑The
Hon. Harold Neufeld
(Minister responsible for The
His
Honour the Lieutenant‑Governor, having been advised of the contents of
this bill, recommends it to the House. I
also table the Lieutenant‑Governor's report.
Motion agreed to.
Bill 11‑The
Bee-Keepers Repeal Act
Hon. Glen Findlay
(Minister of Agriculture): Mr. Speaker, I move,
seconded by the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns), that Bill 11, The Bee‑Keepers
Repeal Act; Loi abrogeant la Loi sur les apiculteurs, be introduced and that
the same be now received and read a first time.
Motion agreed to.
Bill 12‑The
Animal Husbandry Amendment Act
Hon. Glen Findlay
(Minister of Agriculture): Mr. Speaker, I move,
seconded by the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Downey), that Bill 12, The
Animal Husbandry Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur l'elevage, be
introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.
Motion agreed to.
Bill 14‑The
Highways and Transportation Department Amendment Act
Hon. Albert Driedger
(Minister of Highways and Transportation): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the
honourable Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard), that Bill 14, The Highways and
Transportation Department Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur le ministere
de la Voirie et du Transport, be introduced and that the same be now received
and read a first time.
Motion agreed to.
Bill 21‑The
Provincial Park Lands Amendment Act
Hon. Harry Enns
(Minister of Natural Resources): Mr.
Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Labour (Mr. Praznik),
that Bill 21, The Provincial Park Lands Amendment Act, Loi modifiant la Loi sur
les parcs provinciaux, be introduced and that the same be now received and read
a first time.
Motion agreed to.
Bill 22‑The
Lodge Operators and Outfitters Licensing and Consequential Amendments Act
Hon. Harry Enns
(Minister of Natural Resources): Mr.
Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Agriculture (Mr.
Motion agreed to.
Introduction
of Guests
Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the
attention of honourable members to the gallery where we have with us today 20
parents and students from the Manitoba Association for Schooling at Home. They are under the direction of Judy Andrich.
Also,
from the Arborg Collegiate we have forty‑two Grade 9 students. They are under the direction of Tara
Kozub. This school is located in the
constituency of the honourable member for Interlake (Mr. Clif Evans).
Also,
from the
From
the
On
behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here this afternoon.
* (1345)
ORAL
QUESTION PERIOD
Education
System
Funding
Formula
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of
the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, we have been outlining the job
losses in the
The
private sector is not the only place where employment is going down in our
province. Indeed, in the public sector
employment opportunities are going down for Manitobans and in spite of the
flowery words from the Speech from the Throne where the government says many
improvements have been made in
I
would ask the Premier how is he going to make up for the losses in the last
year in terms of employment and investment in our youth in terms of the
education system, and what will the policies of the government be in funding
our education system for 1992? They are
in a crisis situation, Mr. Speaker, and we would ask the Premier what type of
leadership will he be providing for our youth and for our future.
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Mr. Speaker, throughout the period of time
that we have been in government, going on four years now, we have attempted to
fund the public school system to levels that were commensurate with the ability
of the taxpayer of
Under
those circumstances, of course, that may not be as much as some would have
chosen, Mr. Speaker. The fact of the
matter is that we have to live within the means that are available to us. The alternative to that, of course, would be
to do what the opposition party, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer), would
have us do and that is to raise taxes.
Raising taxes would only make it more difficult on people in our economy
and would have resulted in more job losses.
We did not want to face that kind of circumstance.
I
know that higher taxes are a cradle of the New Democratic Party, Mr. Speaker,
and they have proven in the past with the substantial job destruction that they
wrecked upon this province in the 1980s that those policies do not work.
Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, that is a very, very long non‑answer
to the question dealing with education funding.
Mr.
Speaker, this First Minister and his government front benches have been telling
us in the Speech from the Throne and in questions we have been asking about the
economy all week, that happy days are here again. The growth is going to be 4 percent next
year, and
* (1350)
Mr.
Speaker, I have a letter in my hand addressed from his Minister of Education
(Mr. Derkach) telling the school divisions again that the recession is going to
last. We are not having the recovery
that we had predicted. He is also
advising all school boards in
I
would ask the Premier what impact will that again have on the taxation levels
for families, on the education and quality education levels in the education
system? This is the largest crisis we
have ever had, and the Premier is going to exasperate it with another year of
zero funding to the education system.
Mr. Filmon: Well, actually, Mr. Speaker, the Leader of
the Opposition is going to exasperate me.
The fact of the matter is that we are attempting to be a very open
government. We are laying before the
people of this province in the sectors that have to make decisions as much
information as we can provide them with as they plan for their budget
procedures.
The
Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) can appreciate that when the government
passes along a 3 percent increase in funding for public schools and the public
schools choose to increase the salary levels of their teachers by 5 percent and
6 percent, that creates a pressure on the system. That pressure likely results in jobs being
lost as local school boards have to make decisions to downsize, because they
cannot live within that pressure between the increases that we are passing
along and the increases that they are giving to their teaching staff.
In
those circumstances, we felt that it was important to share with the school
divisions as much information as we could about our budgetary forecast so that
they would be better able to plan for the forthcoming budget year, and in their
negotiations with their staff and with their teachers be prepared for the kind
of increase in expenditure and increase in funding that we could pass along. We feel that is open government, good
planning, and an opportunity to share with these local governments as much
information as possible.
Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, I find it rather ironic when I
look back in 1982 at the Premier's comments expressing dismay at a 12.9 percent
increase and saying that is not enough in the public education system. Now the Premier, today, is standing up in the
House and saying that he is supporting a zero percent grant to the school
divisions.
Can
he explain to the people of
Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, as I indicated, our increase in
expenditures in public schools last year was 3 percent, which I might say
exceeded the 2 percent increase which the New Democratic government in 1986
with the member for Flin Flon (Mr. Storie) as the Minister of Education‑‑they
passed along a 2 percent increase to school divisions at a time when their
revenues were increasing, I might say, at three and four times that rate. They did that kind of expenditure control and
priority choosing.
The
fact of the matter is that we will do everything we can to work co‑operatively
with school boards to make sure that we let them know what circumstances face
us and what circumstances we have to do in order to live within our means,
because the last thing we want to do, Mr. Speaker, is to pass along massive
increases in taxation. That is what the
New Democrats did throughout the 1980s.
That is something that could only hurt the economy and the individual
taxpayer, and we do not want to do that.
Universities
Funding
Formula
Ms. Jean Friesen
(Wolseley): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Education
recently wrote to all university presidents indicating that there will be no
increase in funding next year. Between
1979 and 1991, full‑time students in the Faculty of Arts at the
My
question to the Minister of Education (Mr. Derkach) is: How does the government
defend this situation, and more importantly, how does it expect to attract and
retain the knowledge‑based industries when it withdraws support from the
universities, the essential infrastructure of its economic strategy?
* (1355)
Hon. Leonard Derkach
(Minister of Education and Training): Mr.
Speaker, I guess it is fair to say that universities, our public school system
and those who are involved in such things as teacher negotiations, staff negotiations
want to know the ballpark of the type of funding they might be looking forward
to in the coming year. When we did not
signal any kind of a ballpark figure, indeed we were criticized that we were
not sending out those signals early enough so that institutions such as
universities and our public school system could not make the adjustments in the
best timing.
Mr.
Speaker, we have tried to indicate to the institutions at the post‑secondary
level at our school system as to the fiscal situation that our province is
facing and that indeed, in that way, they can make their decisions based on the
realities that this province faces today.
Ms. Friesen: What advice does the Minister of Education
have for the young Manitobans at the
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, it is true that the enrollment
at our universities has increased since last year, increased
substantially. I have to also say that
over 80 percent of our costs in education are personnel expenses. The money that goes to universities, a large
amount of it, will find its way into salaries, but we have a fiscal reality
before this province. Indeed the EPF transfers from the federal government have
been diminishing, and this has created a great deal of pressure on us as a
province.
Mr.
Speaker, because of those realities, provinces throughout this country have
met, as Ministers of Education, in the last two days to try and deal with the
whole situation of student financial assistance and to impress upon our federal
government that we have to update those financial assistance programs that have
not been updated since 1984, and it is for that reason that I tabled that
communique today to ensure that there is solidarity behind all the ministers of
education in this country to impose upon the federal government the importance
of post‑secondary education in this country.
Ms. Friesen: Mr. Speaker, is the minister aware that, if
he proceeds with the zero percent increase to the
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, at each level of government,
whether it is at the school board level or at the university level, there are
some very difficult decisions that have to be made in times of economic
restraint like we are living through.
Those decisions have to be those of the local institutions and the local
school boards. Priorities have to be
set, carefully weighed, and then programs implemented that will complement
those kinds of priorities that have been set by the institutions and by school
boards.
Social
Assistance
Abuse Rate
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs
(Leader of the Second Opposition): Shortly
after taking office, this government ordered a number of studies that were
given out by way of untendered contract to firms such as Stevenson Kellogg
Ernst & Whinney. One of those studies
was a review of the social assistance program, and it found, Mr. Speaker, that
there was a possibility of an abuse rate of less than 1 percent.
On
the basis of that study, can the Minister of Finance tell us today what new
information he has which would lead him to believe that people are collecting
welfare when they could be working?
Hon. Clayton Manness
(Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, there is
no new information to add to the conclusions as found in that report at
all. There was never any question in the
mind of the government with respect to the findings of that particular review
almost three years ago, and the state has not changed as of today.
Economic
Growth
Employment
Creation Strategy
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs
(Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr.
Speaker, will the Minister of Finance now admit clearly to the House that those
people who find themselves regrettably on welfare are there because of this
government's economic policies which are not creating jobs?
* (1400)
Hon. Clayton Manness
(Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I
totally and categorically reject the conclusion reached by the Leader of the
Liberal Party. Nothing is further from
the truth.
I
take from the member's assertion that indeed what this government should be
doing is going hundreds of millions of dollars further into debt in trying to
buy wealth and job creation. That is an
approach that has virtually bankrupt the nation. That has found to be not working. Indeed, sound economic foundations are built
when discipline and good management exists.
That is what this government is providing to the people of this
province.
Social
Assistance
Employment
Training Programs
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs
(Leader of the Second Opposition): One of
those sound foundations surely the minister refers to is the upgrading of
skills.
Can
the Minister of Finance explain why his government chooses to cut funding from
single‑parent mothers on welfare who are trying to go to school and puts
a freeze on funding of students who are disabled as of now so that they cannot
continue programs beginning in February?
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer
(Minister of Family Services): Mr.
Speaker, we have, within the Department of Family Services, a number of
programs which assist recipients to find training and eventually get into the
job market. Through our HROCs and HROPs,
through the Gateway program, through the Single Parent Job Access Program and
through the COPE program, we are providing opportunities for these people to
enter the job market.
I
think what the member is alluding to is the fact that we have a budget line
which provides for education and training for a number of our recipients. That budget line is in excess of $1.7
million. We have indicated to some who
have been on a waiting list that we have expended a portion of that. We have committed the rest of it for the rest
of this particular year, and we will have a new intake period starting with the
new budget.
Education
System
Program
Reductions
Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister
of Education and Training.
In
the new no‑name funding model, the model that is approved by absolutely
no one in the education community, the minister talked about the rich school
divisions giving up at the expense of other school divisions.
Can
the minister outline what rich programs these school divisions will give up, in
light of the fact that last year these eight school divisions in the city of
Hon. Leonard Derkach
(Minister of Education and Training): It has
been more than the three years that I have been in this portfolio that there
has been a cry for a new funding formula for school divisions in this province.
In
announcing the new funding formula for the province, I might say that the
response and the reaction has been very positive. I might say that the member opposite the
critic for Education for the NDP criticized us for the lack of funding to Winnipeg
No. 1 last year constantly. This formula
puts more money into the Winnipeg No. 1 school division, which that member has
not said a word about since then.
Mr.
Speaker, the new funding formula also addresses the issues of special needs, of
counselling, of library services, services which were not being funded
before. To assist those school divisions
that may not be receiving increases, the government of this province has put in
$12 million to phase in the impact of the funding formula as well.
Z
Taxation
Level
Increase
Mr. Dave Chomiak
(Kildonan): The minister is aware that they will get zero
like everyone else this year.
Mr.
Speaker, my supplementary question to the minister is: Will there be another 10
percent tax increase at the local level this year as there was last year as a
result of this minister and this government offloading onto school divisions?
Point of
Order
Hon. Clayton Manness
(Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, that
question is a budgetary matter. The
budget has not been developed and I consider the question highly out of order.
Mr. Speaker: The honourable government House leader does
not have a point of order.
* * *
Hon. Leonard Derkach
(Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, in
announcing the new funding formula in terms of the benefits to taxpayers, I
might say that this government moved to remove one mill off the provincial ESL
for all taxpayers in this province. That
is a benefit to all taxpayers in
Program
Reductions
Mr. Dave Chomiak
(Kildonan): My final supplementary to the minister
is: Can the minister outline where the
rich programs are and what programs are going to be cut as a result of this
inequitable funding formula that the minister has put in place together with
this whole six pages of information about it?
Hon. Leonard Derkach
(Minister of Education and Training): Mr.
Speaker, those are priorities that school divisions set. Local school divisions have not given up
their local autonomy as yet, as I understand it, in this province. Indeed, it is their responsibility to
determine what educational priorities they have within their divisions and then
on that basis to decide the kind of special levy that they will set within
their own school division areas.
Senior
Employee Salary Review
Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin
Flon): Mr. Speaker, this government often talks about
restraint but it does not practise it very often when it is dealing with its
senior management, presidents and CEOs of Crown corporations, its friends. Some time ago literally some tens of
thousands of civil servants across the province were forced to take zero
percent increase at the same time colleagues around them were losing their jobs
and their workload was increasing.
Mr.
Speaker, my question is to the minister responsible for the
Hon. Linda McIntosh
(Minister charged with the administration of The Liquor Control Act): I am pleased to respond to that question and
to put the information requested on the record.
I would like to begin, however, by saying that I have asked the chairman
of the Liquor Control Commission to review once again the salaries that arose
out of the reorganization that took place to determine whether or not they are
too high, in light of the fact that civil servants have taken zero percent when
we are all living through difficult times.
I have asked, Mr. Speaker, that that review be done.
I
would, however, like to just correct some information, because I do like
reviews to be taken in light of correct information as I am sure all members of
the House do. I would like to indicate
in terms of answering the request for the rationale. The rationale presented to me by the Liquor
Commission, which I have asked to have reviewed‑‑I am presenting
just the information requested‑‑is that the previous vice‑president
of licensing who retired in April was not replaced. Her salary of approximately $75,000 was to be
eliminated. Subsequently, the remaining
senior staff were asked to assume those duties, and they have received the
following increases in light of the reorganization or they proposed they
receive the increases of $2,900‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order, please.
Mr. Storie: Mr. Speaker, there is a very obvious question
in all this and who is in charge.
My
question is to the minister responsible for the Liquor Commission. Will she indicate to this House when she learned
that there would be a 26 percent increase to senior staff of the Liquor
Commission, what information she was providing‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.
* (1410)
Mrs. McIntosh: To complete the answer to the first question,
Mr. Speaker, if I may‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. I would like to remind the honourable
minister to deal with the matter raised.
Mrs. McIntosh: When I received the information that the
Liquor Control Commission was undergoing a reorganization‑‑and you
must understand that I have no authority to order particular salaries in an
independent. I can ask for a review
which I have done to ensure that they are not too high in light of what the
civil servants have had to take.
I
would indicate, however, to correct the information that was put forward, that
the average increase given the remaining senior staff who have picked up the
duties of the vice‑president who was not replaced, the average increase
recommended they be receiving by the commission is 7.4 percent, and the net
saving that has been indicated to me to the commission is about $50,000.
Chairperson
Resignation
Request
Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin
Flon): My question to the minister responsible for
the Manitoba Liquor Commission is: Will she
immediately remove the chair, Mr. Charles Birt, a former PC member in this
Legislature? Will she instruct the board
of the Manitoba Liquor Commission to remove that $26,000‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.
Hon. Linda McIntosh
(Minister charged with the administration of The Liquor Control Act): Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated, when the
bottom line on the net savings that would accrue to the Liquor Commission was
presented to me and I was told that $53,000 would be saved as a result of the
reorganization, the percentage salary increases were not at that time given to
me. I now have them. I have asked the chairman of the Liquor
Control Commission to review again this situation to see if a 7.4 percent
increase for assuming the duties of that retired vice‑president is
excessive.
Health
Care System
Surgery
Waiting Lists
Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The
Maples): My question is for the Minister of Health.
A
senior citizen who is a constituent of the member for St. James (Mr. Edwards)
is deeply concerned because she needs a knee replacement operation and she
cannot get it. Her physicians have told
her‑‑and I will table the letter later on‑‑that due to
cutbacks, she will not be able to get surgery until 1993, and by that time, she
may be permanently impaired and disabled.
Mr.
Speaker, there are a number of other Manitobans who are suffering the same kind
of situation. The waiting period has
gone from months to 18 months for many procedures. We will tell the minister that, by selling
pizza and perfumes, he will not solve the problems of health care.
Can
the minister tell this House what has he done to reduce the waiting period for
such operations for the last three and a half years?
Hon. Donald Orchard
(Minister of Health): In simple terms,
increased the funding in every single year that we have brought down a budget
to the hospitals of the
I
reject my honourable friend's accusations.
Mr. Cheema: Accusations are based on the facts.
Will
the minister tell this House why the waiting period for cardiac surgery has
gone up since he has taken over? We have
repeated that request many times in this House.
People are waiting for more than 18 months. Can the minister‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.
Mr. Orchard: Mr. Speaker, maybe my honourable friend could
share a little honesty with the House and indicate that, in every single year
that we have budgeted for open‑heart surgery, we have done more
procedures in each succeeding year, not less, as my honourable friend would
have the allegations.
Physicians
who do the scheduling for surgery determine which candidates receive the
surgery in what order. They prioritize
those waiting lists according to the most urgent needs. That is a medical judgment which governments
in the past have not chosen to dictate on the basis of phone calls to MLAs or
ministers' offices how that list ought to be intervened with. Surely my honourable friend is not wanting to
break that tradition.
Mr. Cheema: If the minister has chosen to.
Anesthetist
Shortage