LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Friday, February 21, 1992

The House met at 10 a.m.

PRAYERS

MATTER OF PRIVILEGE

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I rise on a matter of privilege.

My motion, by the way, will be followed by a substantive motion.

I was not in the House yesterday afternoon to hear some remarks made by the honourable member for Wellington (Ms. Barrett), but my members of the Legislature quickly let me know exactly what those remarks were. I came in this morning and immediately obtained a copy from the files, which I am prepared to file in this House, in which the member said: "I also found it very interesting that the member for Niakwa, his comments were very different from the comments that were made at the vigil by the Leader of the second opposition party (Mrs. Carstairs) who felt that vigils were of no use and who did not understand the use of vigils."

Mr. Speaker, I have never in my life experienced such a misrepresentation of fact as was made in this House yesterday afternoon. I made some statements at the vigil. I particularly made sure that there was no media there, because I do not want vigils to turn into any kind of media event. I want them to be a meeting of men and women who feel that this issue is one in which we must work together.

I stated very clearly that it was not a political issue, and I made reference to every single MLA who was there that I saw. I went up to the member for Radisson (Ms. Cerilli) afterwards and apologized to her because I had not seen her in the circle and said that I would have mentioned her name as well.

I indicated in my comments to this vigil that I was frustrated that we had to keep coming back to these vigils. I mentioned my concerns about my two daughters, my 22‑year‑old, who is afraid to go out at night; and my 19‑year‑old, who, because she is an equestrian and spends often long evenings in a barn and is often there by herself with her horse, that we always were concerned about what might happen to her in such a circumstance.

Mr. Speaker, nowhere in those remarks did I indicate that vigils were useless. Nowhere in those remarks did I say they were of no value.

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I think anyone who has been in this House since 1986 knows that I have on a number of occasions risen and spoken of the issue of violence towards women. I have also spoken about violence towards men, because I think unless we change attitudes, there is going to be a continuation of violence towards all human beings.

I believe it is appropriate for the member for Wellington (Ms. Barrett) to apologize, but if the member for Wellington is not prepared to apologize, I move, seconded by the member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux),

THAT this House do refer the statement of February 20, 1992, made by the member for Wellington in this House to the Standing Committee on Privileges and Elections.

Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington): Mr. Speaker, if the member for River Heights or any other member of this House finds any comments that I have made either yesterday or at any time in debate in this House offensive or inaccurate, I withdraw those comments and apologize for having made them.

Mr. Speaker: That concludes the matter, satisfactory to the Chair.

PRESENTING PETITIONS

Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Judith A. Manning, Megan E. Cooper, Ian R. Wood and others, requesting the government show its strong commitment to dealing with child abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Phuong Nguyen, Linda Froese, Gord Siddorn and others, requesting the government show its strong commitment to dealing with child abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign.

Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (St. Johns): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Rolf C. Simon, Don Rencz, Al McGregor and others, requesting the government show its strong commitment to dealing with child abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS

Mr. Speaker: I have reviewed the petition, and it conforms with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth

THAT child abuse is a crime abhorred by all good citizens of our society, but nonetheless it exists in today's world; and

It is the responsibility of the government to recognize and deal with this most vicious of crimes; and

Programs like the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign raise public awareness and necessary funds to deal with the crime; and

The decision to terminate the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign will hamper the efforts of all good citizens to help abused children.

WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislature of the Province of Manitoba may be pleased to request that the government of Manitoba show a strong commitment to deal with Child Abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign. (Ms. Barrett)

I have reviewed the petition, and it conforms with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth

THAT child abuse is a crime abhorred by all good citizens of our society, but nonetheless it exists in today's world; and

It is the responsibility of the government to recognize and deal with this most vicious of crimes; and

Programs like the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign raise public awareness and necessary funds to deal with the crime; and

The decision to terminate the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign will hamper the efforts of all good citizens to help abused children.

WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislature of the Province of Manitoba may be pleased to request that the government of Manitoba show a strong commitment to deal with Child Abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign. (Mr. Chomiak)

I have reviewed the petition, and it conforms with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth

THAT child abuse is a crime abhorred by all good citizens of our society, but nonetheless it exists in today's world; and

It is the responsibility of the government to recognize and deal with this most vicious of crimes; and

Programs like the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign raise public awareness and necessary funds to deal with the crime; and

The decision to terminate the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign will hamper the efforts of all good citizens to help abused children.

WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislature of the Province of Manitoba may be pleased to request that the government of Manitoba show a strong commitment to deal with Child Abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign. (Ms. Wasylycia-Leis)

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

Bill 42‑The Amusements Amendment Act

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Labour): Mr. Speaker, I would like to move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns), that Bill 42, The Amusements Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur les divertissements, be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.

Motion agreed to.

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Bill 43‑The Farm Income Assurance Plans Amendment Act

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach), that Bill 43, The Farm Income Assurance Plans Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur les regimes d'assurance‑revenu agricole, be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.

His Honour the Lieutenant‑Governor, having been advised of the contents of this bill, recommends it to the House. I would like to table also the message of the Lieutenant‑Governor.

Motion agreed to.

Bill 44‑The Milk Prices Review Amendment Act

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture): Mr. Speaker, I would like to move, seconded by the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach), Bill 44, The Milk Prices Review Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur le controle du prix du lait, be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.

His Honour the Lieutenant‑Governor, having been advised of the contents of this bill, recommends it to the House. I would also like to table the message of His Honour.

Motion agreed to.

Bill 45‑The City of Winnipeg Amendment, Municipal Amendment

And Consequential Amendments Act

Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Urban Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mrs. McIntosh), that Bill 45, The City of Winnipeg Amendment, Municipal Amendment and Consequential Amendments Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur la Ville de Winnipeg, la Loi sur les municipalites et d'autres dispositions legislatives, be introduced and the same be now received and read a first time.

Motion agreed to.

Bill 46‑The Jury Amendment Act

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), that Bill 46, The Jury Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur les jures, be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.

Motion agreed to.

Bill 47‑The Petty Trespasses Amendment Act

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), that Bill 47, The Petty Trespasses Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur L'intrusion, be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.

Motion agreed to.

Bill 49‑The Environment Amendment Act

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): I move, seconded by the Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae), that Bill 49, The Environment Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur L'environnement, be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.

His Honour the Lieutenant‑Governor, having been advised of the contents of this bill, recommends it to the House. I would like to table the message of the Lieutenant‑Governor.

Motion agreed to.

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Introduction of Guests

Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery, where we have with us this morning Mr. Howard Pawley, the former Premier of the province, now a professor of political science at the University of Windsor, accompanied by 16 fourth year honours political science students from that same university.

Also this morning from Elwick Community School we have 50 Grade 5 students. These students are under the direction of Martin Kashty. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for The Maples (Mr. Cheema).

Also this morning from Bismarck, North Dakota, we have 20 students and their teachers from the Century High School Patriot Jazz Ensemble. These students are under the direction of Mr. Tim Fogderud.

On behalf of honourable members, I welcome you all here this morning.

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

GATT

Supply Management Proposal

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, supply management and the protection of supply management in Canada is one of the most important challenges in our trade negotiations going on at the GATT round. Canadians are joining together in a strong consensus position to defend the supply management system in Canada, which has provided viable industries in our country, viable jobs, and has helped us in our rural communities across this country, helped us maintain a strong agricultural industry, with nutritious and productive products in our country.

Mr. Speaker, in trying to achieve that consensus, eight provinces out of 10 signed a declaration to the Prime Minister to speak strongly on behalf of supply management and to take a strong stand in Europe and in the United States to protect the supply management system. Eight provinces out of 10 signed the declaration to the Prime Minister; two Conservative provinces did not. One of them was Manitoba, and one of them was Alberta.

I would ask the Premier: Will he override his Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Findlay) and now take a strong stand to sign the declaration to the Prime Ministers so that we can in fact have a consensus position with agricultural ministers to protect supply management in this country?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, if the member will examine that petition, it talks about, in the course of the GATT negotiations, ultimately giving the top priority to protecting supply management. We have always said that we will not abandon any of our farmers. We will take a balanced approach, and we will not favour one group of farmers to the exclusion of others.

We know that the greatest challenge that is facing western Canada over the next decade will be the resolution and the removal of the export subsidies on grain. If we are not able to achieve that, that member will be condemning tens of thousands of western Canadian farmers to leaving their farms. We will not do that. This government will not abandon any of our farmers and we will not play sides one against the other.

We have therefore put on the table a balanced approach, a balanced approach that says we will do everything possible to strengthen Article 11 under the GATT to protect our supply management and to ensure that we roll back and remove so far as possible the export subsidies on grain so that our grain farmers can make a living forever in future, so that families can pass along their farms, so they can continue to farm in this country, in this province.

Mr. Doer: I would ask the Premier also to include in his position for a balanced approach the whole area of transportation policy of Canada too, which is also on the table, and a very, very important element. Please do not leave out all these elements, Mr. Speaker, in the pursuit of one objective that potentially could achieve zero objectives.

The declaration calls on the Prime Minister to intensify and reinitiate multilateral discussions with the heads of other governments. Mr. Speaker, other governments and other Premiers and other Ministers of Agriculture also want to remove the subsidies of grain in the European market and also want to remove and have a balanced approach to the negotiations going on in GATT, but they believe as part of that balanced approach that we should be unequivocal in our support and develop a consensus on supply management systems. It is not an either/or, it is a pro‑Canadian position for the agricultural producers of Canada, and part of the pro‑Canadian position as part of that balanced approach is the support of supply management.

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Now why will this Premier not join other Premiers and other governments in signing the balanced declaration to the Prime Minister for a strong and united stand at GATT for all Canadian producers, including supply management producers? Has the Premier written these people off?

Mr. Filmon: Well, Mr. Speaker, that is precisely the point I make, that it is not an either/or.

The wording on that says: the highest priority to protecting supply management. It is directed only to supply management, and it cuts adrift the grain farmers of western Canada, tens of thousands of them right across the west, many of them in this province, who would not have a future if we cannot resolve the export subsidy problem, the transportation issues and all of those issues that must be resolved in order to ensure a secure long‑term future for our grain farmers in this province.

I will not cut them adrift like the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) is prepared to do, Mr. Speaker, for his politics. I will take the balanced approach, and I will ensure that at all times we are working to protect both sides, strengthening Article 11 and ensuring that we roll back the export subsidies for our grain farmers.

Mr. Doer: I will send a copy of this declaration over to the Premier, because it calls for a support of all the elements of a balanced position pursued by the federal government. Mr. Speaker, the declaration talks about a balanced approach to trade.

Surely the Premier knows that the Premier of Saskatchewan and the Minister of Agriculture of Saskatchewan, which is also vitally concerned and has a number more grain farmers than we do in Manitoba and is also vitally concerned about the subsidy issue in the European round, would not sign a declaration like this if it was going to affect their grain producers. Mr. Speaker, it merely gives some consensus on the issue of supply management in Article 11.

I would ask the Premier to re‑evaluate their position on this declaration and join the other eight provinces that have signed and have joined in a consensus position to the Prime Minister, provinces that also want a balanced approach to trade, and make sure that we have 10 provinces speaking with the same voice on supply management to Canada and through Canada to the international community rather than eight provinces, with Manitoba not being one of them.

Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, just so that the Leader of the Opposition does not in any way mislead anyone who might be listening, the petition does not refer to a balanced approach. The petition says: declaration to the Right Honourable Brian Mulroney, Prime Minister of Canada, in support of Canadian supply management programs‑‑period, nothing else.

Then it says that the undersigned respectfully request the Prime Minister of Canada to immediately intensify and renegotiate multilateral negotiations as a matter of the highest importance.

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So we are saying, this is the highest importance; rollback of export subsidy is not the highest priority. If we took that position, Mr. Speaker, we would be condemning to no economic future most of the grain farmers of western Canada and Manitoba.

I will not do that to 20,000 Manitoba grain farmers. That is not a balanced approach, and no amount of politicking is going to make me abandon those farmers just as the Leader of the Opposition is prepared to do.

Health Care System

User Fees

Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (St. Johns): Mr. Speaker, the Premier is reported to have had a cozy chat yesterday with Nova Scotia Premier Don Cameron, and they were apparently in agreement over just about every issue of the day.

The Premier should know that the Premier of Nova Scotia, Don Cameron, and his Finance minister have both said that Liberal Premier of New Brunswick Frank McKenna's support for user fees in our health care system should be seriously considered.

Was this matter of user fees in our health care system on the agenda at this meeting yesterday between our Premier and the Premier of Nova Scotia, and does this mean that this Premier is going‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): No, Mr. Speaker.

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis: Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier, since this is a very serious issue in terms of our health care system and the future of medicare: Will this Premier do what some other Premiers like the Premier of B.C. has done and state unequivocally that he is prepared to strenuously fight against the notion of user fees in our health care system and that he is opposed to any‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, I said that in Ottawa and I said that after returning from Ottawa and I would be happy to repeat it any time that the member would want to ask me.

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis: Mr. Speaker, we certainly appreciate that unequivocal‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Question, please.

Goods and Services Tax

Harmonization

Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (St. Johns): Will the Premier be forthcoming about his apparent plan, his secret plan dealing with GST harmonization and cross‑border shopping? Will he table that plan for all of us here in Manitoba to see, to discuss, to have a dialogue over in the interests of this government's commitment to being open and honest with the people of Manitoba?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I think we should expect a little honesty out of the opposition from time to time, not just talk about open and honest government that we do have.

The fact of the matter is that there has not been a proposal for harmonization with the GST that we have in any way endorsed or accepted or been involved with, Mr. Speaker, and despite confused media coverage on the issue‑‑

An Honourable Member: Oh, it is the media's fault.

Mr. Filmon: When the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) says that the provincial government should remove the GST and does not even understand that it is not a provincial tax, Mr. Speaker, we can understand that there is great confusion out here about that tax. Harmonization is not on the table, and our counterproposal does not involve harmonization, I want to assure the member for St. Johns (Ms. Wasylycia-Leis) about that.

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Goods and Services Tax

Harmonization

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I am delighted that the Premier has now said very clearly in the House that there is not to be harmonization in any way, shape or form, either at the border or elsewhere in the province of Manitoba. Will he now explain why some of his officials told a reporter that the plan was to twin the taxes only at the border?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, harmonization means taking the GST and input tax credits and everything totally together and making us adopt the federal plan of GST. We have said no to that before, and we have never wavered or varied from that position. That remains the issue.

If the federal government wants to put all kinds of permutations and combinations together, we said as all Premiers did, all 10 Premiers, and that includes the Premier of Saskatchewan, the Premier of British Columbia, the Premier of Ontario, the Premier of New Brunswick, the Premier of Newfoundland, that we would be open to suggestions from the federal government of ways and means that we could work together to stem the flow of cross‑border shopping. Not because we want to make things more expensive for Manitobans, but because we have lost several thousand jobs in the retail sector in Manitoba, and if you look at statistics they demonstrate that probably one‑third of the retail sales jobs in North Dakota, our neighbouring province, are sustained by Manitoba shoppers. Now that one‑third of jobs could be in Manitoba if the shopping took place here.

I cannot understand the Liberal Party being on both sides of the issue. On one hand they say, do something about job losses in Manitoba; on the other hand they say, do not do anything that would change anything, because we like it the way it is, where thousands of jobs have been removed from Manitoba retail operations and put into operations on the other side of the border where they do not pay taxes, where they do not support our medicare or anything else. You cannot have it both ways.

Report Tabling Request

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition): If the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) and the Premier (Mr. Filmon) did not keep mixing up their uses of the words "twinning" and "harmonization" as well as their members of staff doing the same thing, then perhaps the public of Manitoba would not be so confused about the future of this initiative.

Will the Premier today table his so‑called plan, which he is now prepared to discuss with the Premier of Nova Scotia, but is not prepared to lay before this House or the citizens of this province?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I know that the Leader of the second opposition party has not had to engage in any of these negotiations before. She has never been involved in this kind of process. Negotiations involve people putting forward proposals and counterproposals back and forth. It does involve people attempting to arrive at some resolution that meets our tests, and one of our tests is nonharmonization. That meets some other objectives, which may well be to try and repatriate some of the shopping that is taking place across the border and re‑establish some of the thousands of jobs that have been lost here in Manitoba. It is very important to our Manitoba economy. It is very important to all of us to strengthen our economy for the future to re‑establish that shopping in Manitoba.

I think that is a worthwhile objective. I think it is an objective that all of us would want to work towards. I would say to you that it is a significant objective. I know that I heard Premier Rae say that there are $2 billion of losses annually to Ontario's economy by virtue of cross‑border shopping. He is willing to take an objective view of this, and he is willing to look at potential solutions. He is a New Democratic Premier. We have a Liberal Premier such as Frank McKenna or a Liberal Premier such as Clyde Wells willing to be open and look at solutions, because those solutions are important to our economic future. All we have is irresponsible opposition‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

Mrs. Carstairs: Mr. Speaker, first of all, I certainly would not take any negotiating skills lessons from the Premier, because he has lost in every round with the federal government.

Mr. Speaker, why is this government unprepared at this moment in time to share with the people of this province a plan that they are prepared to discuss with other Premiers? Why are they denying open government, which they say they approve and applaud in this Chamber and in this province?

Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, because it is not a plan that has been approved or finalized. It is a series of alternatives being presented that has to be agreed upon ultimately by 10 provinces and the federal government. Therefore, when you are dealing with drafts and texts and all kinds of proposals, that is the kind of thing that causes confusion.

That is the kind of thing that I know is great fodder for the Leader of the Liberal Party (Mrs. Carstairs) to ask questions on when nothing has been agreed to, nothing has been accepted, nothing has been refined or decided upon, so that gives her things to speculate on. We are not in for speculation. We are in for solutions. We are in for solutions that will be good for the Manitoba economy that will ensure that we repatriate thousands of jobs in the retail sector and strengthen our economy. That is what we are doing.

School Divisions

Election Postponement

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Education.

Rumours about the government's position on boundary review have been circulating for months. Now that the minister has written trustees with the proposal regarding postponing school board elections for one year and now that a deputy minister has indicated that is a government option, will the minister indicate what the government's policy is on postponing school board elections for a year.

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, I have met with the trustees and what the trustees have asked me is that any initiative put forward by this government be a well‑considered initiative. We are still considering the issues at this time.

Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, can the minister outline what the process being undertaken is, how long it will take, when it will be tabled‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mrs. Vodrey: I will be announcing the process when the mandate is fully considered and prepared. It is a priority for this government. It is a priority for us in education at this time.

French Language Division

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, my final supplementary is: Will the government review include the government's initiative for the imposition of a French‑language school division within the city of Winnipeg?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): The mandate will be announced when all the issues have been considered, and it will be announced as a priority when the announcement is made.

A

Aboriginal Education

Post-Secondary Accessibility

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Education.

Manitoba has the lowest participation rates in post‑secondary education for the generation aged 18 to 25. One considerable portion of that young population is aboriginal.

Now given that this minister's government has cut back on ACCESS programs, cut back on community colleges, and given also that the federal government's new funding programs for aboriginal education also severely restrict access to a number of programs, I would like to ask the minister what specific steps she has taken to change what I believe is a tragic situation.

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): We consider the training opportunities for the people of Manitoba to be very important, and we also consider the training opportunities for aboriginal people to be equally important. We have not wavered on our commitment to access, Mr. Speaker.

Ms. Friesen: Mr. Speaker, I do not think I heard any specific steps she has taken.

Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

Community Colleges

Post-Secondary Accessibility

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Is the minister aware that Manitoba again is at the bottom of the list when we look at the proportion of students in community colleges compared to the number of students in universities? Is she aware that this is because, clearly, the universities have been more open and accessible to our young people than community colleges?

Mr. Speaker: Question, please.

Ms. Friesen: I would like to ask the minister again: What action is she taking to ensure that this situation ends and that she will end the waiting lists at community colleges?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): We are very concerned about the range of educational opportunities in this province. We are moving toward community college governance and, as we move toward community college governance, those colleges will be able to be very responsive in their regional areas to the kinds of training opportunities that are required.

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Funding

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Mr. Speaker, is the minister aware that in the last budget, post‑secondary education suffered the second‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member, kindly put your question, please.

Ms. Friesen: Is the minister aware‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member, kindly put your question now, please.

Ms. Friesen: Given the post‑secondary education‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. I have asked the honourable member on two separate occasions to kindly put your question. Put your question now, please.

Ms. Friesen: Would the minister assure the House that she is going to at least restore the funding that was cut from her department last year, the second largest cut to government departments?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): The funding available for community colleges will be announced when the budget is announced in this House.

Stephenfield Reservoir

Irrigation Licensing

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James): Mr. Speaker, yesterday the government revealed that it had granted two new trial irrigation licences to farmers in the Winkler area to draw water from the Assiniboine River.

It is a rare occasion that I agree with the member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Connery), but I want to‑‑[interjection] If he wants to ask it, I will sit down this second, Mr. Speaker.

I do not want to steal his thunder, but he said yesterday, it is a little hypocritical or two‑faced when this government is saying they need water for industrial‑residential and at the same time they are issuing licences.

I agree with the minister on that calling of the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns) on his hypocrisy in this case. I am using the words of the member for Portage la Prairie, and I think the Minister of Natural Resources certainly deserves an opportunity to defend himself on that, Mr. Speaker.

I ask him, therefore: Why has he abandoned his earlier commitment that Assiniboine River water diversion south would not be used for agricultural irrigation?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Natural Resources): Mr. Speaker, to the honourable member for St. James‑‑and Portage la Prairie‑‑let me assure the honourable member that due to the foresight of my immediate predecessor, the honourable member for Rhineland, this government increased the capacity of the Stephenfield reservoir with the aid of the federal agency PFRA and my department to the point where we have been able to make the full reservations to the communities for residential and municipal water supplies of Carman and the R.M.s involved that enable without any threat to the changing of priorities of waters to provide on a yearly, not any firm licensing, two additional licensings to the Murta and Kroeker farms. That is in keeping with the policy that the department follows.

There has been in fact a Boyne River‑Stephenfield reservoir advisory board established to facilitate and to manage the local operations of the Stephenfield reservoir. They have concurred with these decisions and are monitoring the situation. It is anticipated that the final results of the review will not be available until the spring of '92. It will then be determined whether or not these licences can be, in fact, made firm.

Mr. Edwards: Mr. Speaker, can the minister explain how it is that his government is considering spending millions of dollars to divert water from the Assiniboine River to that very Stephenfield reservoir that he talks about, on the assumption that the water is needed for residential and industrial uses, which is what we are told by this minister, and at the same time granting new agricultural irrigation licences out of the same reservoir?

Mr. Enns: Mr. Speaker, the honourable member should be aware that within that south central region, Carman, Morden, Winkler, Altona, perhaps the most progressive, if I may use that term, and productive region of our province, there has always been a certain amount of irrigation capacity available. The problem that the 15 municipalities have that comprise the Pembina task force, who have made that application that he refers to, with respect to additional water, is that they are in urgent need of augmenting the water supplies to that region. That is going to be considered in due course by the Clean Environment Commission and/or other agencies of government.

I can assure the honourable member no decision of government has been made in that respect, but specifically to the operation of the Stephenfield reservoir, the federal government and the provincial government spent some $300,000, $400,000 on increasing the capacity of the reservoir. That project was completed in the year 1990, and that operation of that reservoir has not been changed fundamentally. The priorities of the residential and municipal water requirements, as stated by The Water Act, are being fully met.

Mr. Edwards: Mr. Speaker, finally for the same minister: Can the minister indicate on what basis these new trial irrigation licences are going to be granted, which are in total contradiction of his earlier statement that water would not be taken from the Assiniboine for agricultural irrigation and, in particular, in view of the fact that former member of Parliament Mr. Murta just happened to be one of the people who received those licences?

Mr. Enns: Mr. Speaker, I am tempted to infringe on the rules of the House to indicate just how important diversified agriculture is to Manitoba. I am tempted to talk about the 400, 500 jobs in rural Manitoba that are created at Carberry with our potato processing plant there, the 200 additional jobs that were provided this summer to keep the plant running for student help. I am tempted to talk about the fact that every acre that we take out of wheat or cereal production need not look for the subsidization as currently made available for cereal and grain production, that surely it is in the interest of all members of this House to see that our province economically prosper, particularly in rural Manitoba on this basis.

Mr. Speaker, I know that I am already stretching my privileges in this regard. I think I have answered the question. The priorities of domestic residential municipal demands first are being met in every way with the provision of these two provisional licences at this time.

Brandon General Hospital

Budget Reduction

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Health.