LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Tuesday, February 25, 1992

 

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

       

PRAYERS

       

Mr. Clerk (William Remnant):  I must inform the House of the unavoidable absence of Mr. Speaker and, therefore, in accordance with the statutes, would call upon the Deputy Speaker to take the Chair.

       

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

 

PRESENTING PETITIONS

     

Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Emanuel Machado, Iris Stone, Mark Hagga, and others, requesting the government show its strong commitment to dealing with child abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse Campaign.

Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (St. Johns):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Cassandra Nicolson, Tammy Reimer, Glen Craven, and others, requesting the government show its strong commitment to dealing with child abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse Campaign.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Rhonda Law, Shelley Drummond, Susan Larson, and others, requesting the government show its strong commitment to dealing with child abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign.

       

READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS

       

Madam Deputy Speaker (Louise Dacquay):  I have reviewed the petition, and it conforms with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

      The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth

      THAT child abuse is a crime abhorred by all good citizens of our society, but nonetheless it exists in today's world; and

      It is the responsibility of the government to recognize and deal with this most vicious of crimes; and

      Programs like the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign raise public awareness and necessary funds to deal with the crime; and

      The decision to terminate the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign will hamper the efforts of all good citizens to help abused children.

      WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislature of the Province of Manitoba may be pleased to request that the government of Manitoba show a strong commitment to deal with Child Abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign. (Mr. Reid)

* (1335)

 

TABLING OF REPORTS

     

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to table the 1990‑91 Annual Report of the Department of Agriculture and the 1991 report from the Prairie Agricultural Machinery Institute.

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to table the Annual Report 1990‑91 of the Department of Education and Training.

 

Introduction of Guests

       

Madam Deputy Speaker:  Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the gallery, where we have with us this afternoon forty‑six Grade 5 students, from H.S. Paul School, under the direction of Karen Imhoff.  This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Seine River (Mrs. Dacquay).

      I would also like to draw attention to all members of the House to the loge to my left, where we have with us this afternoon the Honourable Larry Desjardins.

 

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

 

Bill C‑20

Extension

       

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Madam Deputy Speaker, for the eighth year in a row, we will have a presentation of a federal budget by the Conservative government in Ottawa.  These federal budgets usually represent a lot of bad news for Canadians, and the record of the federal Conservative government in terms of economic performance is well known to members of this Chamber, to people in Manitoba and to Canadians.  The Free Trade Agreement with the United States with its loss of jobs in Canada, the GST tax that allegedly was going to be revenue neutral continue to be the legacy of Conservative economic policy in our country.

      Unfortunately, too, another promise from the federal Conservative government that medicare would be a sacred trust is also another one of those slogans from the federal Conservatives that have proven to be without any merit at all.  Every federal budget we see, particularly in the last few years, has seen a radical decline in support from the federal government to our EPF programs and particularly to health and post‑secondary education.

      We are now in a situation, Madam Deputy Speaker, where the very fabric of medicare, as funded by our federal government, is at risk, and yet last December and through the last six months, when the federal government was extending the freeze on its cash payments to the provinces through C‑20, the federal legislation, the government opposite chose not to make any representation to Ottawa through the parliamentary committee to express their concerns and opposition to the two‑year extension of freezes on medicare.

      I would ask the Premier:  Is he aware of any reversal in federal government policy for medicare and will we see the reinstatement of transfers in medicare in the federal budget today, and if that is the reason why his government was silent on C‑20 when it was before Parliament?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I thank the Leader of the Opposition for that lengthy dissertation.  I would say that we as a government obviously have expressed our very serious concerns and condemn successive governments, both the former Liberal government that began the limitations and cuts to EPF and equalization transfers to Manitoba in the '80s and carried on throughout the '80s by the now Conservative administration of Prime Minister Brian Mulroney.  Every First Ministers' meeting that I have attended, I have raised the issue of the federal reductions in transfer payments or limitations on growth of transfer payments or caps on CAPs and so on, every single opportunity directly to the Prime Minister.

      I know that the Leader of the Opposition sent a representative to that parliamentary committee because that is the only forum for opposition members.  We have direct forums. The Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) has raised it directly with Mr. Mazankowski, and I have raised it directly with the Prime Minister, with the support of virtually every other province in this country.  We have made that message known, Madam Deputy Speaker.  We know that, even in my presentation to the Dobbie‑Beaudoin parliamentary committee on the Constitution, I indicated that we wanted to see the protection of those programs, EPF, CAP and equalization put in our Constitution as part of the framework of social program protection that we want to see in the Constitution.

* (1340)

Mr. Doer:  I have a supplementary question, Madam Deputy Speaker.  We have the Premier's (Mr. Filmon) public comments in 1989 at the First Ministers' conference, when he presented a brief to the Prime Minister which stated in fact that he wanted to applaud the promising steps of action from the federal government dealing with EPF in health and post‑secondary education.  This was after a cut of $104 million; they wanted to thank the federal government for the promising steps that they have taken with the Conservative government in Manitoba.

      I also have the statement of the Premier at the most recent Finance Ministers' meeting, and I see no great condemnation of the federal government for the freeze.  We see nothing in Bill C‑20.  We see the provincial government saying that they have their own ways of dealing with Don Mazankowski.  We work in our own ways, Madam Deputy Speaker.  We see nothing publicly when the Premier is face to face with the Prime Minister.

      What assurances can the Premier have to Manitobans that the federal government is listening?  When we listen, we do not see any of these eyeball‑to‑eyeball condemnations of the federal Conservative government cutbacks in medicare, which we will see again, unfortunately, extended in the budget this afternoon in Ottawa.

Mr. Filmon:  I just want, because the member opposite is wont to misrepresent things, to say that I did not ever support or compliment federal government EPF cuts.  He knows that, and he ought not to misrepresent it.

      Secondly, he alleges that I attended a Finance Ministers' meeting, and I did not attend any such thing.  I do not know where he is coming from on the issue.  The issue is very clear. This government is opposed to any and all reductions in transfers from Ottawa on EPF, CAP and equalization, and we have said so, time and time again.

Mr. Doer:  A supplementary question, Madam Deputy Speaker.  In his statement to the Prime Minister, he says, your government has taken such promising steps and we want to work with you to make them as effective as possible, that is a cutback on health care and post‑secondary education, health services and health care finances.  That is after a cutback of $104 million.  No wonder the Premier, after budgets are presented, is in such disarray. He applauds the government before the budget is presented and then complains about it after we are cut back.

      Madam Deputy Speaker, a very simple question:  Why did the Premier not condemn the federal government in extending C‑20 for another two years and freezing medicare, one of the finest programs in the world, for another two years?  Why did he not condemn the Prime Minister at the First Ministers' meeting‑‑

Madam Deputy Speaker:  The question has been put.

Mr. Filmon:  Unlike the Leader of the Opposition who only engages in criticism and never in any positive side, when the federal government rebased the calculations for equalization, listened to our arguments and increased the payments on equalization that resulted in some $75 million additional dollars over two years to this province, obviously we would say that we complimented them on finally listening to us and doing it.

      Madam Deputy Speaker, I will compliment the federal government when it does the right thing such as it did in equalization, and I will continue to condemn them when it does the wrong thing as they have done on EPF, CAP and other equalization changes that they have made in the past.

 

ERDA Agreements

Status Report

 

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas):  My question is for the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism.

      Since the previous government was able to negotiate 10 major ERDA agreements for the Port of Churchill, the Core Area Agreements, the transportation agreements with a federal commitment of nearly $300 million, I want to ask the minister, has the minister negotiated a single ERDA agreement for the North where unemployment remains the highest?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Deputy Speaker, we have been in the process of negotiating some four different western economic partnership agreements with the federal government.  We recently signed a tourism agreement with the federal government.  We are finalizing a communications agreement.  Our previous Minister of Energy and Mines signed a minerals agreement.  Certainly each and every one of those agreements benefit not only northern Manitoba, but all of Manitoba, and have benefits throughout our province.

      Also, as part of that, was the agreement with HBM&S.  Clearly that is very much focused on northern Manitoba, but our tourism, our minerals, our communications all have a focus on Manitoba in totality, which certainly includes northern Manitoba.

* (1345)

 

ACCESS Programs

Federal Funding

 

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas):  My second question is for the same minister.

      Has this minister obtained any federal funding commitment for the ACCESS programs that were cut, programs which are vital for northern development?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): That is not an area that falls directly under my portfolio.  I will certainly discuss it with our Minister of Education (Mrs. Vodrey) in terms of negotiations on the ACCESS program, but as I have indicated, we have already entered agreements on minerals, entered agreements on tourism and are in the process of finalizing one on communication, Madam Deputy Speaker.

 

Government Commitment

       

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas):  My final question is again directed to the same minister.

      Will this government make a commitment to the ACCESS programs?  Will they increase funding for this year, or will this government follow the lead of their federal counterparts and continue cutting education and training programs in northern Manitoba?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism):  I will take that question as notice and discuss it with my colleague the Minister of Education (Mrs. Vodrey), but one other agreement that I failed to mention when I responded to the first two questions was probably the most significant in terms of the monetary contribution, our forestry agreement which our Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns) was able to enter.  Clearly we have entered agreements on forestry, we have entered tourism, we have entered minerals, and communications are imminent, which all benefit not only northern Manitoba but all of Manitoba.

 

Provincial Deficit

Clarification

 

Mr. Reg Alcock (Osborne):  I realize that the attention today is going to be focused on the federal budget, but I would like to see if we cannot clarify some of the confusion around our own budget.

      Some three weeks ago, when the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) announced a special warrant for some $72 million, he had indicated that would not cause the deficit to rise because we were receiving some $75 million from Ottawa.  A couple of weeks ago, he then said, well, no, we were only receiving $55 million and $30 million would not be coming in corporate, so we would only receive a net of $25 million, but the deficit would not rise because of his management.  Yesterday, he announced that indeed the deficit will rise.

      I am asking him today, could he clarify exactly what is the situation, and why there is such apparent confusion in his department?

Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Finance):  There is no confusion whatsoever in the department.  Madam Deputy Speaker, what we have, and members in the NDP particularly know this because they have been in government, they would know that particularly during the months of late January, all of February and leading into March there is a significant revision of numbers that come forward from, particularly, federal transfer.  They would also know that there are requests by departments with respect to not only supplementary funding, but there are also areas that at times lapse within government appropriation.

      This is a big operation.  This is a $5‑billion operation, and from week to week, those numbers do change.  Obviously they have impact on the bottom line.  That is what I will be reporting in a consolidated, unaudited fashion to the people of this province next week.  At that time, the standing of the province's finances, basis December 31 numbers with an estimate to year‑end numbers, March 31, will be made available to all.

 

Increase

 

Mr. Reg Alcock (Osborne):  Can the Minister of Finance then tell us when he became aware that the deficit was going to rise?

Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Finance):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I am not going to suggest with certainty that the deficit is going to rise.  I am saying that the certainty that I expressed around the deficit decreasing is no longer there in a "certainty" fashion.  That is because of new information, so I am sorry I have to be vague on this, but I would ask the members opposite, listen and wait until next week, at which time, it will be all clear.

* (1350)

Mr. Alcock:  The question to the minister then is:  Is the new information he is referencing, information he has coming from the federal Finance minister as a result of today's budget that leads him to predict that our deficit is going to increase in this province?

       Mr. Manness:  No, Madam Deputy Speaker.  I would love to have insight to the federal budget.  I will be provided with the same at the same time as the member opposite, when it is read by Mr. Mazankowski in Ottawa.

      The information that came to light two weeks ago was yet another revision.  There are seven or eight of them during the course of a year, and the information that was provided to us as a government two weeks ago was one of those revisions.

 

Rural Infrastructures

Responsibility

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  When the Premier was in Ottawa, he called on the federal government to implement a national highways program.  In Ottawa, he recognized the importance of our rural infrastructure.

      I ask the Premier, if he says that our rural infrastructures are important, and I believe they are, how can he justify the cutbacks and offloading of roads onto municipalities when he knows that the municipalities cannot afford to upkeep these roads and all of those infrastructures are going to break down?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Madam Deputy Speaker, we can really now gauge the depths of the confusion in the NDP ranks when the member cannot tell the difference between maintenance of gravel roads and investment in infrastructure of building new highways, new sewer and water construction in capital works.  When she does not know the difference, there is obviously a serious problem on the NDP side.

      Having said that, I will inform the member for Swan River that this government entered into a trilevel agreement with both the municipal level and the federal level for a $90‑million investment in rural infrastructure, $90 million.  The Partnership Agreement for Municipal Water Infrastructure, the largest of its type, an agreement that the New Democrats could negotiate and never were interested in investing in, Madam Deputy Speaker.

      We see right across this country what the New Democrats are doing.  They are preserving and increasing the numbers of their civil servants, their bureaucrats, and they are starving capital budgets.  This government is investing in long‑term capital infrastructure in highway construction, the largest highway construction budgets ever seen in this province under this administration, in the sewer and water infrastructure, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Ms. Wowchuk:  Madam Deputy Speaker, I know what offloading is and so do the municipalities.

Madam Deputy Speaker:  Does the honourable member have a question?

Ms. Wowchuk:  I would like to ask the Premier if he will now listen to the over 50 municipalities who have sent him petitions and letters asking him to reverse his decision.  Will they take back these roads that they have offloaded onto the municipalities?

Mr. Filmon:  Madam Deputy Speaker, not only did we transfer funding to the municipalities for the‑‑

An Honourable Member:  Six million dollars over two years.

Mr. Filmon:  ‑‑$6 million of additional funding over two years so that they could take over and do more efficiently, as I believe all taxpayers in this province want.  Manitoba taxpayers, like all taxpayers across this country, recognize there is only one taxpayer.  Whichever level of government can do things more efficiently and more effectively should be the level of government that does it, so in tranferring‑‑[interjection]

Madam Deputy Speaker:  Order, please.

Mr. Filmon:  Madam Deputy Speaker, I know that the New Democrats are hurting when they cannot even ask a proper question in this House and they have to heckle my response, but I wish that the member for Wellington (Ms. Barrett) would just calm herself down a little bit.

 

Point of Order

       

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader):  I believe there was some exchange across the way, as there was from both sides, probably due to the length of the question or the answer to the question from the Premier.

      I would like to ask, Madam Deputy Speaker, if perhaps you could ask the Premier to come to order and respond as to our rules, in terms of Beauchesne, to the question that was asked by the member for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk), a very serious question.

Madam Deputy Speaker:  The honourable member for Thompson did not have a point of order, but I do recognize the caution he has served, and I would ask all honourable members in this House to respect the rules.

* * *

Mr. Filmon:  Madam Deputy Speaker, we all noticed the Freudian slip about the length of questions from the New Democrats, and we accept that.  We expect that from them.

      The fact of the matter is that, in addition to transferring $6 million to the rural municipalities to enable them to do a better job on the rural road maintenance, we have not only brought in the $90‑million Partnership Agreement on Municipal Water Infrastructure, but we have put in place rural Grow Bonds to develop the rural communities and their investment in themselves.  We put in place the REDI program, the rural economic development initiative with VLT revenues going into rural communities.  We have brought in more programs to rural Manitoba than has ever been dreamed of by any previous government in the history of this province.

Ms. Wowchuk:  The municipalities were short‑‑

Madam Deputy Speaker:  Order, please.  Does the honourable member for Swan River have a question?

Ms. Wowchuk:  What assurances can the Premier (Mr. Filmon) give municipalities that they are not going to get any surprises in the very near future as they are preparing for their budgets as they did last year?  They had their budgets prepared, and then they got this offloading.  Can he assure us that there is not going to be any more offloading or cutbacks in funding to municipalities?

Madam Deputy Speaker:  The question has been put.

Mr. Filmon:  Unlike NDP Ontario that has offloaded millions and millions of dollars onto the rural municipalities, and I know that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) knows about that because he has argued the case for passing on some of these things to the rural municipalities very eloquently in the past when he was the Urban Affairs minister.  He was the point man on this issue as he offloaded millions of dollars.  Bob Rae is taking his advice and following along in that wrong path.  We do not want to do that.

      We will deal in an up‑front manner with the rural municipalities.  We will continue to consult with them.  We will continue to have an open dialogue and will continue to be cognizant of their problems and concerns as well as the problems and concerns that we face in preserving health care, education and vital family services to all the people of this province.

* (1400)

 

Stony Mountain, Manitoba

Environmental Concerns

 

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James):  For the Minister of Environment, on January 31 of this year, the M.P. for Portage la Prairie, Felix Holtmann, wrote to the Minister of Environment indicating his willingness to work with provincial and municipal levels of government to solve the problem that the Stony Mountain residents have with respect to the Bristol Aerospace pollution problem.

      In part, that letter stated:  I am prepared to direct the actions from the federal government point of view.  I ask you to designate a provincial partner, and I know I can count on the R.M. of Rockwood.  Collectively, we can solve the problem.

      I want to table that letter, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I want to ask the minister, I know that efforts have been made at the provincial level.  Has there been a specific response to Mr. Holtmann on this issue?  Have we designated a provincial representative to work with him to come up with funding to solve this problem?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Yes, we have contacted Mr. Holtmann, and we are quite prepared to work with him and put him to work.

 

Federal Funding

       

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James):  Perhaps the minister could indicate who that representative is.

Madam Deputy Speaker:  Does the honourable member have a question?

Mr. Edwards:  Yes.  Has the minister studied the suggestion that the Southern Development Initiative be looked to, to fund this program which Mr. Holtmann suggests, and can he indicate who the representative is from the provincial government to work with Mr. Holtmann?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Madam Deputy Speaker, my last offhand remark was not meant to reflect on the M.P. for that area.  I am quite prepared to accept his work on behalf of dealing with this problem.

      In response to the question regarding setting a framework in place to deal with this issue:  yes, we have put together an interdepartmental working group; yes, we have met with representatives of Mr. Holtmann's office; yes, we have had direct contact with the R.M. and indicated to them the steps that they should be taking if they wish, indeed, to deal with an alternative water supply; yes, in the interim, we are going to make sure the people of that district have clean potable water that we will be able to remove the concerns they have about the consumption of water no matter whether it meets with the Canadian drinking water standards or not.

 

Provincial Funding

       

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James):  Madam Deputy Speaker, finally for the same minister, the Member of Parliament Mr. Holtmann indicated sources of funds, put it on the table and said he was willing to come up with some funds.  Can the minister indicate what provincial programs he is going to be looking to, what provincial sources of funding to immediately deal with the problem, the pure water problem in this area, given that tying it to Bristol Aerospace or others in the area, if there are others, may be a lengthy process and people need the clean water now? What provincial sources of funding is he going to be looking at to meet the challenge which has been set down by Mr. Holtmann?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  I am pleased that the member is advocating on behalf of Mr. Holtmann's position.  I am not sure if he wants me to respond directly to the suggestions that Mr. Holtmann made about using orphan sites fund or suggestions of that nature.

      I can assure you, Madam Deputy Speaker, that the Manitoba Water Services Board, which is the vehicle that we would use to deal with any request for municipal water supply, is very much involved with the process.  If the member is suggesting that we are leaving some stone unturned regarding federal funds, I can assure him that I am all ears.

 

Port of Churchill

Rail Line Protection

 

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona):  Madam Deputy Speaker, last Friday while representing the member for Rupertsland (Mr. Harper), we joined with a group of concerned Manitoba residents meeting with the federal ministers of Transport to discuss the Port of Churchill's future and the future of northern Manitoba.  The group proposed a partnership arrangement to rehabilitate the rail line.  The federal Minister of Transport accepted the premise of a federal‑provincial rail company partnership.

      Will the Premier instruct the Minister of Highways and Transportation (Mr. Driedger) to initiate meetings between Manitoba, the federal government and other partners on this proposal, with a view to arriving at a positive long‑term future for Churchill's future?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Madam Deputy Speaker, the member is well aware from the many statements that the Minister of Highways and Transportation has made in this House about his commitment to Churchill and about all the efforts that he has undertaken, including having gone to Ottawa and met with the federal Minister of Transport on this issue just some week or 10 days ago.

      I will take that suggestion under advisement and discuss the matter with the Minister of Highways and Transportation at my earliest opportunity.

Mr. Reid:  Given the past success of ERDA agreements, will the Premier commit his government to play a financial role in the continuation of the bayline and Churchill's future instead of the stalemate we currently find ourselves in?

Mr. Filmon:  I am sure that the member knows full well the great challenges that face any government in this country.  I know that from having spoken with my colleagues, the other First Ministers, that many of them will be billions of dollars over their budget projections for the estimated deficit.

      Madam Deputy Speaker, I know that the member opposite would probably be the first one on his feet if he felt that we were not spending money on issues such as health care, such as education, such as family services, such as environment, so many of the demands that are upon us a government.  It is very, very difficult for us to talk in terms of tens of millions of dollars investment in issues of this nature without looking at the tremendous burden of costs that we face in vital services that the people of Manitoba depend upon.

 

Grain Shipment Commitment

       

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona):  Given that the federal Minister of Transport has expressed his support and in view of the fact that Mr. Epp and Mr. Mayer did not attend these meetings, will the Premier instruct his Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Findlay) to arrange a meeting between Manitoba, the federal government and the Wheat Board for a long‑term commitment of grain exports through Churchill?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Madam Deputy Speaker, the Minister of Transport has convened and participated in such meetings for several years now and made those demands.

 

CFB Shilo

Continuation

 

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):  I have a question for the Minister of Industry.  In view of the fact that the federal government has indicated that major cuts will be made in defense spending in today's budget, can the Minister of Industry advise the Legislature whether the Manitoba government has obtained a commitment from the federal government that Shilo will not be closed or reduced in any major way?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): There have been no indications one way or the other to my department, as of today, relative to Shilo.  I think the honourable member knows that there has been a series of meetings taking place over the last several months.  The position of our government, a position certainly that the opposition parties support relative to Shilo, has been put on the record on many occasions, has been put on the record in terms of delegations going to Ottawa, so our position is very clear to the federal government.  We have absolutely no indication of any expected changes in Shilo as a result of today's budget.

Mr. Leonard Evans:  I wonder, in view of the minister's answer, if the minister could take some time out now and seek an assurance from the federal government on the continuation of Shilo.  I ask that, recognizing there is an all‑party committee who are preparing to go to Ottawa to make a presentation to a ministry advisory committee.  I appreciate that, but nevertheless, I think it would be prudent‑‑

Madam Deputy Speaker:  The question has been put.  Order, please.

Mr. Stefanson:  We have certainly done that to date, as I have indicated.  Our government has done that on several occasions. The all‑party task force has travelled to Ottawa.  The position of our government is very clear, the position of the community, the work being done by our collective departments, by my department, in terms of compiling information to continue to make the case on behalf of Shilo, the work being done by the community and so on, certainly, to continue to reinforce that, reiterate that, we are more than prepared to do, Madam Deputy Speaker, as we have consistently done to date through correspondence, through conversations and through utilizing our Ottawa office.

     

Simplot ‑ Brandon Plant Modernization

       

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):  I would like to ask the Minister of Industry, who I know is interested in jobs in the Brandon area and economic development in the Brandon area, has the Manitoba government obtained an agreement with the federal government for joint funding of the modernization of the Simplot chemical plant in Brandon?  As the minister knows, the future of that plant is being threatened by Cargill's expansion in Saskatchewan.

Madam Deputy Speaker:  Order, please.  The question has been put.

* (1410)

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Deputy Speaker, once again, I think, as the honourable member knows, this is an issue that we are working very closely with Simplot as an organization, with executive of Simplot, with the community, with the mayor and the local town council, in terms of a financial commitment towards the upgrading and development of the Simplot facility.

      We continue to work with that organization toward retaining their presence in the community, the jobs that they create.  We certainly welcome any additional suggestions from members of the opposition.  Our position is perfectly clear on that issue, Madam Deputy Speaker, that we will continue to work with Simplot to retain their presence here in our province.

 

Consumer Warning

Odometer Tampering

 

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood):  Madam Deputy Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs.

      Yesterday, I asked the Minister of Consumer Affairs if she would issue a consumer warning to alert the public to the fact that used cars with tampered odometers have been offered for sale in Winnipeg.  I would like to know if she has now issued that warning.

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I discussed this issue with my staff yesterday, and through the months that I have been minister, there have been many, many instances where my department has been involved in police investigations, doing work to see what is going on out there that might be of trouble to consumers.  From that, I have learned that, until the police have issued a press release indicating their activities on any given issue, I will not jeopardize any work that may be being done by making comment prematurely.

      I can say that, if the member is aware of any particular instances with specific details that he thinks may be of danger to consumers, he should immediately contact the RCMP with those allegations so that they can be investigated.

Mr. Maloway:  Madam Deputy Speaker, given that one car dealer is being charged with six offences under the Weights and Measures Act for rolling back odometers, will she act so that persons who have bought low‑mileage used cars can have them checked for odometer tampering?

Mrs. McIntosh:  Madam Deputy Speaker, the RCMP have released the name of no individual at this point.  When and if they do, then I will be pleased to make further comment on any statement that they may issue to the public.

 

Business Practices Act

Restitution

 

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood):  Madam Deputy Speaker, has the minister examined the use of The Business Practices Act to see whether restitution can be obtained for anyone who has been a victim of odometer rollbacks?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs):  The member knows the Weights and Measures Act comes under a federal statute, the Criminal Code applies.  However, I am sure that The Business Practices Act, if a specific complaint was lodged, if a consumer has been victimized in any way which the act covers, then they can attempt mediation or some of the other measures in the act to attempt restitution for those who may have been victimized.

     

Decentralization

Brandon, Manitoba

 

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster):  Madam Deputy Speaker, my question is for the Premier (Mr. Filmon).  Once again, I should warn that you just cannot trust a Tory.  This government does not understand‑‑[interjection] The Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) says it might be unparliamentary.  Maybe you just cannot trust this government, and I will retract the "Tory."

      This government does not understand the concept of decentralization.  There have been four Lottery positions that have been terminated in the city of Brandon, and we have seen four new positions created, two in Brandon and two to be transferred over to the city of Winnipeg.  That is a form of decentralization, Madam Deputy Speaker, I think that most Manitobans would give up hope on this particular government.

      My question specifically to the Premier is:  Can the Premier tell this House why two jobs are being taken from Brandon and being centralized to the city of Winnipeg?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Madam Deputy Speaker, without accepting any of the preamble of the question that the member for Inkster has put forward, and recognizing that he would not in any way have investigated whether or not things might be done more efficiently by a government or a government agency as a result of any decisions made in government, I am sure that efficiency, cost effectiveness and saving money for taxpayers and Crown corporations would never be one of the issues that he would review.

      I can tell him this, that as part of our government decentralization initiative, we have decentralized over 100 jobs to the city of Brandon and another 30 or 50 more jobs into that southwestern Manitoba area.  We are very definitely committed to decentralization.  I will take the specifics of his question under advisement, and I will bring back the response.

Mr. Lamoureux:  Madam Deputy Speaker, we have now seen a government in a change in policy.  There is a new criteria.  Is he now going to look at every decentralized job, and if it is not efficient, it is coming back to the city of Winnipeg?  Is that what the Premier is saying, that the new criteria is one of efficiency?

Mr. Filmon:  Madam Deputy Speaker, if the member for Inkster will go back to every single speech that I have made on decentralization, dating back to my original speech in November of 1989 at the annual meeting of the UMM in Brandon, we said one of the criteria would be that the work of the department in the decentralized position would have to be at least as efficient and effective, as it was in the decentralized operation, as it was in others.

      I know that Liberals and NDP have no interest in efficiency in government.  They want to just waste money, throw taxpayers' money down the toilet.  We will not accept that response at any time.

* (1420)

Madam Deputy Speaker:  Time for Oral Questions has expired.

 

ORDERS OF THE DAY

       

Hon. Clayton Manness (Government House Leader):  Madam Deputy Speaker, will you call debate on second readings, the order of the bills as shown on the Order Paper.

 

DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS

       

Bill 6‑The Denturists Amendment Act

 

Madam Deputy Speaker:  To resume debate on the proposed motion of the honourable Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard), second reading of Bill 6 (The Denturists Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur les denturologistes), standing in the name of the honourable member for St. Johns (Ms. Wasylycia‑Leis).

      Is there leave to permit the bill to remain standing? Agreed?  Agreed and so ordered.

     

Bill 9‑The Economic Innovation and Technology Council Act

 

Madam Deputy Speaker:  On the proposed motion of the honourable First Minister (Mr. Filmon), to resume debate on second reading of Bill 9 (The Economic Innovation and Technology Council Act; Loi sur le Conseil de l'innovation economique et de la technologie), standing in the name of the honourable member for Interlake (Mr. Clif Evans).

      My apologies.  There was an error on my Order Paper.  The bill is standing in the name of the honourable member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans).  Is there leave to permit the bill to remain standing?

Some Honourable Members:  Leave.

Madam Deputy Speaker:  Leave.

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak to Bill 9, which is The Economic Innovation and Technology Council Act.  I also have to express my disappointment because my friend Tricky Dick will not be able to hear some of the things that I have to say in terms of economic activity in Manitoba, the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Downey).

      Let me start off by talking a little bit about the Northern Economic Development Commission that was announced by the Minister of Northern Affairs after promising to do so for about a year, a year and a half, as an election promise.  That Economic Developme