LEGISLATIVE
ASSEMBLY OF
Wednesday,
February 26, 1992
The House met at 1:30
p.m.
Mr. Clerk (William
Remnant): I must inform the House of the unavoidable
absence of Mr. Speaker and, therefore, in accordance with the statutes, would
call upon the Deputy Speaker to take the Chair.
PRAYERS
ROUTINE
PROCEEDINGS
PRESENTING
PETITIONS
Ms. Becky Barrett (
Mr. Daryl Reid
(Transcona): Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to present the
petition of Mika Simes, Cheryl Hawrychuk, Jonas Johnson, and others, requesting
that the government show its strong commitment to dealing with child abuse by
considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign.
Mr. Dave Chomiak
(Kildonan): Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to present the
petition of Margot McEdward, Chris Herrera, Bob Monpetit, and others,
requesting the government show its strong commitment to dealing with child
abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign.
Madam Deputy Speaker
(Louise Dacquay): I have reviewed the petition, and it conforms
with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the
rules. Is it the will of the House to
have the petition read?
The petition of the undersigned citizens
of the
THAT child abuse is a crime abhorred by
all good citizens of our society, but nonetheless it exists in today's world;
and
It is the responsibility of the government
to recognize and deal with this most vicious of crimes; and
Programs like the Fight Back Against Child
Abuse campaign raise public awareness and necessary funds to deal with the crime;
and
The decision to terminate the Fight Back
Against Child Abuse campaign will hamper the efforts of all good citizens to
help abused children.
WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray
that the Legislature of the
I have reviewed the petition, and it
conforms with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the
rules. Is it the will of the House to
have the petition read?
The petition of the undersigned citizens
of the
THAT child abuse is a crime abhorred by
all good citizens of our society, but nonetheless it exists in today's world;
and
It is the responsibility of the government
to recognize and deal with this most vicious of crimes; and
Programs like the Fight Back Against Child
Abuse campaign raise public awareness and necessary funds to deal with the
crime; and
The decision to terminate the Fight Back
Against Child Abuse campaign will hamper the efforts of all good citizens to
help abused children.
WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray
that the Legislature of the
* (1335)
I have reviewed the petition, and it
conforms with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the
rules. Is it the will of the House to
have the petition read?
The petition of the undersigned citizens
of the
THAT child abuse is a crime abhorred by
all good citizens of our society, but nonetheless it exists in today's world;
and
It is the responsibility of the government
to recognize and deal with this most vicious of crimes; and
Programs like the Fight Back Against Child
Abuse campaign raise public awareness and necessary funds to deal with the
crime; and
The decision to terminate the Fight Back
Against Child Abuse campaign will hamper the efforts of all good citizens to
help abused children.
WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray
that the Legislature of the
TABLING OF
REPORTS
Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister
of Urban Affairs): I am pleased, Madam Deputy Speaker, to
present the 1990‑91 Annual Report of The Forks Renewal Corporation.
Introduction
of Guests
Madam Deputy Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw
the attention of all honourable members to the gallery, where we have nineteen
Grade 5 students from
Also with us this afternoon, we have
twenty‑eight Grades 7 to 9 students from
On behalf of all honourable members, I
welcome you this afternoon.
ORAL
QUESTION PERIOD
Federal
Budget
Employment
Creation Strategy
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of
the Opposition): Madam Deputy Speaker, when the Premier was
recently at the First Ministers' meeting in
We concur with the Premier's assessment of
the state of the Canadian economy and the state therefore of the
Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to ask
the Premier: There are thousands of
Manitobans now on social assistance, there are 57,000 Manitobans now
unemployed, does this federal budget provide any hope for the thousands of
Manitobans who are suffering the most in this recession? Does it provide any hope that there will in
fact be employment opportunities for them and their families in the 1992 year?
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Madam Deputy Speaker, there are a number of
aspects to the federal budget that obviously address some of the concerns that
have been raised by various critics, observers and people who have met to give
advice to the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance.
One of the areas that some provinces hold
out great hope for in job creation, investment and obviously getting people
back to work is the RRSP idea of people being able to take up to $20,000 out of
RRSPs to invest in a home that will stimulate the housing construction in this
country. Housing construction
traditionally, I might say, has been pointed to by Liberal and New Democratic
governments and others as being the quickest way to get people to work, so that
is one aspect that presumably is targeted toward job creation.
The budget, without going into detail,
indicated that the federal government was interested in pursuing with the
provinces the national highway program that would involve presumably investment
in long‑term infrastructure and in construction. I believe the surveys that were done by the
former government, the NDP government, indicated, I think, that close to 60
percent of every dollar spent on highway construction was for jobs. Again, you have another aspect of that budget
that does that.
You have the aspect of the budget that
transfers child credits into the hands of low‑ and middle‑income
people, giving them more dollars to spend.
Obviously, those dollars spent in the economy will flow through in the
way of creation of jobs to some degree.
There are other aspects of the budget that
do have that aspect to the budget, that does involve job creation, that does
involve stimulus to the economy and that does involve improvements over what
would have happened if, instead, we had followed some of the proposals of New
Democrats which would simply raise taxes, raise the deficit and stifle the
economy. That would have been a disaster, and I certainly would not accept that
kind of recipe for resolution to our problems, Madam Deputy Speaker.
* (1340)
Canadian
Centre for Disease Control
Construction
Schedule
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of
the Opposition): Madam Deputy Speaker, I am a little surprised
that the Premier was not disheartened with the 10 percent unemployment rate
prediction of the federal government. I
thought he would have been much more critical of that kind of double‑digit
unemployment target. I guess that is
why, unfortunately, Manitobans are having 57,000 people unemployed in our own
province.
Madam Deputy Speaker, one of the specific‑‑
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please.
Point of
Order
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Madam Deputy Speaker, I know that the Leader
of the Opposition would not want to misrepresent my remarks, so I point out for
him that I said that unemployment was unacceptably high in
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable First Minister does not have a
point of order. It is a dispute over the
facts.
* * *
Mr. Doer: Madam Deputy Speaker, the former New
Democratic government obtained an agreement with the federal government to
develop and build a virology lab in
On countless occasions‑‑in
fact, I have the Hansard in this House‑‑the Premier has talked
about the forthcoming announcement of the virology lab to be built in the city
of
The Premier told us after the First
Ministers' meeting that we would have to await the federal budget to find out
whether the virology lab was in fact going to be built this year to both create
jobs and health excellence that certainly New Democrats believe is important to
our economy.
I would ask the Premier: Has he been advised by the Prime Minister or
any of his other contacts whether the virology lab negotiated by the previous
government will finally be delivered by this government in the
Mr. Filmon: Madam Deputy Speaker, we know that the public
does not give a great deal of credibility to the claims that the Leader of the
Opposition makes about things happening, so we will just leave aside his
preamble.
I will say that, as the Leader of the
Opposition knows and as many people throughout
At that time, we also had been pursuing it
by virtue of our
I can tell the Leader of the Opposition,
if he is interested, Madam Deputy Speaker, that the federal government, as part
of its process, applied for a licence under our Manitoba Environment Act
because the laboratory Centre for Disease Control qualifies as a Class 2
development requiring a licence. Just
about 10 days ago, as a matter of fact, a matter of days surrounding our First
Ministers' Conference on the economy, we received a copy of the federal
environmental assessment. That is now
being reviewed in order to provide comments and to proceed to the next stage of
our process.
Everything that we have indicates that the
federal government is pursuing along the path toward the development of that
facility.
* (1345)
Mr. Doer: Of course, the Premier knows, when he made
his statement in
Then I would ask the Premier: Will we see the subject of the environmental
licensing, which was always one of the conditions for the lab, will we see the
approval of the capital projects to be in this fiscal year, this budget year
for the federal government so we will finally have the shovels in the ground,
finally have the disease lab rather than continue to be delayed and delayed,
and finally have both the capital construction and the health excellence that
will come from that virology lab, which is needed in this province right now?
Mr. Filmon: The Leader of the Opposition makes my point
precisely. The federal government had
committed to that lab in 1987. There was
no involvement of the province. There is
no negotiation. It is a total federal
decision within total federal jurisdiction to move that lab here, Madam Deputy
Speaker. Let him not try and take credit
for that. That is an absolute foolish
position. He looks embarrassed, and I am
glad.
The time lines that were envisaged in the
federal government's development plan did not call for ground breaking until
1995. The reality is that the federal
government is working towards the fulfillment of the requirements under the
environmental assessment. We also
believe that the final design is very close to completion and, therefore, it is
in a position perhaps to be moved forward.
We will continue to urge the federal government to do that, but at the
present time, all the indications are that they are on track and doing the
various things that would allow for that lab to be developed, at least on
schedule, if not ahead of schedule.
National
Child Care Strategy
Government
Support
Ms. Becky Barrett (
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): I would have to assume that, if the context
of her question is as inaccurate as her preamble, the member for
Ms. Barrett: Madam Deputy Speaker, will the Premier call
the Prime Minister today and ask that he honour the commitment made in the 1988
election campaign and several times since then by both this government and the
Tory cousins in
Madam Deputy Speaker: The question has been put. Order, please.
* (1350)
Mr. Filmon: Madam Deputy Speaker, I assume by her
response that she is acknowledging that she was in error in the preamble that
she gave, because she is dead wrong about her preamble about my standing side
by side with the Prime Minister at Western Glove Works. If she has that corrected‑‑
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please.
Mr. Filmon: Madam Deputy Speaker, the second aspect to
that question is that this government has consistently supported the
development of additional spaces in the daycare sector in
I think that the member for
Ms. Barrett: Madam Deputy Speaker, if this government had
not ruined the daycare system‑‑there are indeed empty spaces.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable member for
Ms. Barrett: Yes, she does, thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
I would like to ask the Premier of the
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.
Mr. Filmon: Madam Deputy Speaker, I think the member for
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please.
Point of
Order
Ms. Barrett: Madam Deputy Speaker, it was not the New
Democrats and the Liberals who stopped the original national child care
strategy‑‑
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for
* * *
Mr. Filmon: Madam Deputy Speaker, I would be happy to
correct the record to say that New Democrats opposed it in Parliament. Despite
the fact that it passed and went to the Senate, the Liberal majority in the
Senate was able to prevent it from passing.
As a result of that, we had a federal election in 1988 that did not
allow for the passage of that legislation.
Now we have the New Democrats trying to come back and say, well, we
really should have had it and so on and so on.
Give us another chance.
The fact of the matter is, I would have
thought that they would have been standing up and applauding the increase of
$1,000 per child in care of child care credits in the budget, but they choose
instead to try and take some kind of political angle on this. The fact of the matter is, those increases in
child care will help many people who have children in child care in this
country.
* (1355)
Federal
Budget
Finance
Minister's Position
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs
(Leader of the Second Opposition): Madam Deputy
Speaker, the Minister of Finance has a phrase he likes to use. He says, it is passing strange.
Hon. Clayton Manness
(Minister of Finance): I have not used it
this year that much.
Mrs. Carstairs: Well, this may be his opportunity, because when
the Premier went to the First Ministers' meeting, he asked for 12 commitments
out of this budget. He got one of his
12.
Will the Minister of Finance tell the
House why, in his own words, he was encouraged with the budget when they have a
grade of 8 percent on the exam set by the Premier (Mr. Filmon) of the
Mr. Manness: Madam Deputy Speaker, the Leader of the
Liberal Party must not forget the two leading ranking items in the request from
the First Minister. They were: keep the taxes down, reduce them if possible;
secondly, reduce the deficit if at all possible and; thirdly, use
Madam Deputy Speaker, that was the essence
of the federal budget yesterday. I would
have to say, inasmuch as this government has been leading the way in
Mrs. Carstairs: Madam Deputy Speaker, in the list in the
Premier's speech, his first was a Canada‑wide tax freeze. His second was capital spending. There is no capital spending in this budget,
and the tax freeze, in fact, benefits someone earning $100,000‑‑55.5
times more than someone earning $15,000. Is that what keeps the Minister of
Finance in the
* (1400)
Mr. Manness: The moderate pleasure that I expressed with
respect to the budget‑‑[interjection]
Madam Deputy Speaker, when one crafts a
budget, you try to instill a fair degree of balance. In this budget, I saw some balance. I saw a reaching out to the community at
large with respect to taxation, with holding the deficit down, with trying to
hold and control government spending. I
also saw, with respect to those savings, some attempt to reach out to families
and to the children within families with respect to the tax form. I also saw a commitment to try and take the peace
dividend, so called, and direct it into good government programming.
Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, I can say,
though, I am also concerned about some of the long‑run forecasts. I am hoping that they are based on a strong
foundation. They have been missed
significantly before in other budgets.
Indeed, they had better come to be, because if they do not, then we are
no further along with the problems that we have with respect to debts and
ultimately deficits and, therefore, after that, taxation.
Madam Deputy Speaker, I am hoping I am
making myself clear. I am hoping that our budget can continue to follow in the
mold that we have developed over the last three or four years and indeed
followed for once by the federal government.
Economic
Growth
Employment
Creation Strategy
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs
(Leader of the Second Opposition): Madam
Deputy Speaker, the reality is there is $4 a month in a child benefit in this
budget, $4 a month. That is not very
good for a family where the father and the mother, either or both, are
unemployed.
Can the First Minister of this province
tell us, since their federal counterparts are doing absolutely nothing, what
they are going to do to get some jobs created in the
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Madam Deputy Speaker, no province has a more
progressive child tax credit system than we do in this province. That is something the Leader of the Liberal
Party ought to be aware of. We already
do have the most progressive and the best system for child tax credits.
In addition to that, Madam Deputy Speaker,
I guess the question has to be turned around to the Leader of the Liberal
Party. The only way in which massive
monies could have been spent on any of these programs was to raise taxes. Does she really honestly believe, in the
circumstances that face this country and this province today, that higher taxes
would have been a better answer than the kind of balanced approach that the
Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) talked about?
If she does believe that, she is further
out of touch with the people and the needs than I believed she was. That would be the wrong way to go, and I
reject that suggestion totally.
Employment
Retraining Programs
Government
Initiatives
Ms. Jean Friesen
(Wolseley): Madam Deputy Speaker, when the Premier went to
The clear response of the federal budget
has been to transfer another $100 million out of the Canadian Job Strategy to
reduce yet again EPF funding, and the Conservatives are offering no hope, Madam
Deputy Speaker, for the 57,000 Manitobans who are unemployed today.
I want to ask the Minister of Education
and Training, has she spoken to or faxed the federal government in the last 24
hours to speak on behalf of those 57,000 people or is she, too, going to stand
aside and wait until the federal government has offloaded every last bit of
post‑secondary education training onto
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey
(Minister of Education and Training): Madam
Deputy Speaker, I would like to tell the member that I have met as recently as
a week ago with the co‑chair of the Labour Force Development Board to
discuss training issues, and that my department has met with the Minister of
Employment and Immigration to discuss future directions of training. We are in constant contact in an effort to pursue
the best agreement for
Ms. Friesen: Will the Minister of Education and Training,
whose own government has cut in the past year ACCESS Engineering, community
college support, New Careers, Core Area training programs, make a commitment
today to this House to reinstate those programs for Manitobans?
Mrs. Vodrey: Those results will be known to the member
when the budget is tabled in this House.
Ms. Friesen: Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to ask the
Minister of Education and Training, is the silence that we hear from this department
a deliberate plan to ensure that Manitobans‑‑
Hon. Harry Enns
(Minister of Natural Resources): How can
you hear silence?
Ms. Friesen: It is a deafening silence, from this
government, on higher education. Madam
Deputy Speaker‑‑
Madam Deputy Speaker: Would the honourable member for Wolseley
please put her question now.
Ms. Friesen: I would like to ask the Minister of Education
and Training, is this part of a deliberate plan to ensure that Manitobans can
compete on the low‑wage level playing field of
Mrs. Vodrey: Madam Deputy Speaker, there has not been
silence from this side of the House on the issue of training programs. This
government is in fact very committed to training programs on both sides, where
we support Workforce 2000, which is aimed at employers becoming involved, and
we also continue to support ACCESS programs, New Career programs aimed at
employees.
Farming
Industry
Financial
Assistance
Mr. John Plohman
(Dauphin): Madam Deputy Speaker, while this Premier (Mr.
Filmon) and Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) are busy apologizing for the
federal budget and justifying that budget, the Premier of Saskatchewan is
expressing his outrage at the lack of support for agriculture in yesterday's
budget.
Last November, the Minister of Agriculture
was dragged to
Can the minister indicate why he did not
show any leadership following that lobby, why he did not take any specific
federal action with the federal minister to ensure that he would follow through
with the requirement after that lobby?
Hon. Glen Findlay
(Minister of Agriculture): Madam Deputy
Speaker, farmers in western
The realized net income projections for
Mr. Plohman: Madam Deputy Speaker, is this minister in fact
indicating, since he took no substantive action, and his Premier (Mr. Filmon),
in his own quiet way‑‑
Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable member have a question?
Mr. Plohman: ‑‑never took any substantive
action, that this minister is in fact satisfied‑‑[interjection] Madam Deputy Speaker, I started with
a question.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Would the honourable member for Dauphin
please complete his question now.
Mr. Plohman: Madam Deputy Speaker, I will repeat it for
those who were not listening.
Is the minister indicating that he is
satisfied with the dismal response, the nonresponse, the cutback response of
the federal minister, since he did not take any substantive action, neither did
his predecessor?
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Does the honourable member for Dauphin wish
to have his question responded to? Thank
you.
Mr. Findlay: Madam Deputy Speaker, the farm community in
To give you some indication of the degree
of support from federal and provincial governments to the farm community in
* (1410)
Mr. Plohman: Can this minister promise today, in light of
the fact that farmers are behind‑‑they need at least $500 million
to tide them through this year, regardless of what the minister says is coming‑‑that
he will take a more aggressive approach, discard this quiet back‑room
diplomacy that the Premier (Mr. Filmon) is engaged in and go after the federal
government to come through with the required aid that is needed now?
Mr. Findlay: We have continually led the farm delegations
to
Madam Deputy Speaker, our farmers want a
deal in GATT. They want at least as good
a deal as on the table right now for grains, oilseeds and red meats, because
they know that will improve their market access. They know that will give better prices in the
future, and we have an ability to produce that will also stimulate the economy
of this province. The agriculture
minister of
Federal
Budget
Post-Secondary
Education
Mr. Reg Alcock
(Osborne): Madam Deputy Speaker, I, for one, was
profoundly saddened by what I heard yesterday.
I am increasingly saddened by what this federal government is doing to
our country. I am absolutely distressed
by a country that accepts 10.5 percent unemployment as the norm.
It is very interesting to me to note the
joyous attitude on the front bench of this government in the face of the
Premier's (Mr. Filmon) bold statements in
I would ask him, will he today contact his
federal counterpart and protest the lack of support for post‑secondary
education and training?
Hon. Clayton Manness
(Minister of Finance): Madam Deputy Speaker,
I am prepared to do that, but that would be about the fifth time this year
already that I have protested just that. That is contained, of course, within
the freeze under Established Programs Financing. The federal government has locked that into
place for several years. We have all
protested that action, all Ministers of Finance of all political stripes from
across
I can say to the member, I will send that
protest. As a matter of fact, I hope to
talk to the federal minister later on this afternoon and again mention it to
him, again, for at least the third or fourth time this year. I can assure the member it is an issue that
is very important to us. I will continue
to protest that action by the federal government in last year's budget and the
budget before.
Federal
Budget
Student
Aid
Mr. Reg Alcock
(Osborne): Madam Deputy Speaker, will the Minister of
Education and Training, in light of the new damage done to students in this
country, protest that damage, protest the cut in the six‑month deferral
of student loan repayments? I was
astounded to see that the Minister of Education and Training has not done
anything.
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey
(Minister of Education and Training): Madam
Deputy Speaker, I am also concerned. I
will tell the member that I have had a communication from Mr. de Cotret's
secretary of state to attend a meeting to discuss student aid in the next
month, and I will be in touch with him before that time.
Federal
Budget
National Science
Council
Mr. Reg Alcock
(Osborne): Madam Deputy Speaker, will the First Minister
speak to the Prime Minister about the cut of the National Science Council,
given his introduction of Bill 9 and his vaunted support for research and
development?
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Madam Deputy Speaker, I know that the members
opposite are trying to put the worst face on the budget as possible. It is in their political interest to do so.
The reality is that, when you look at all
of the elements of a budget, you want to have taxes kept down, you want to have
the deficit kept down, you want to have a stabilized fiscal framework for the
future of our children and the young people of our society, we obviously have
to look at some areas in which we did not get all of the spending we would have
liked to have seen. Only the Liberals would spend the money, tax people and
raise their taxes in a time as desperate as this.
I just have to repeat that I do not
believe that the member for Osborne or any of his caucus fully appreciate how
concerned people are out there about their tax load. It has gone too high. There is too much. They are not advocating greater taxes like
the Liberals are. I wish they would get
in touch with that feeling, Madam Deputy Speaker.
Social
Assistance
Government
Priorities
Mr. Doug Martindale
(Burrows): Madam Deputy Speaker, the federal and
How does this Minister of Family Services
justify such a punitive and regressive policy when his government has
repeatedly stated that children are its first priority?
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer
(Minister of Family Services): Madam
Deputy Speaker, I welcome the opportunity to respond to the safety net that
this government offers to vulnerable Manitobans, that in a time when
governments have difficulty with raising dollars, this government has provided
a substantial increase to the basic social allowances to all of the Manitobans
on the caseload that we have. At the
same time, we have created new programs for the disabled, and we have also
flowed the tax credits on a more timely basis to put that money in the hands of
vulnerable families in this province.
We have other reforms in mind that we hope
to be able to announce in the near future, and we will also call on the federal
government to bring forward programs on child poverty. In a recent meeting with my colleagues from
across the country and the federal minister, Mr. Bouchard, he has indicated
that there will be programs coming forward to deal with that question of child
poverty.
* (1420)
Madam Deputy Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.
NONPOLITICAL
STATEMENT
Mr. Edward Connery (
Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable member for
Mr. Connery: Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise today to ask
this Legislature to join with me in congratulating 11‑year‑old
Amanda Wright from the
Committee
Change
Mr. Neil Gaudry (St.
Boniface): I move, seconded by the member for Osborne
(Mr. Alcock), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Economic
Development be amended as follows:
Motion agreed to.
NONPOLITICAL
STATEMENT
Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the honourable member for Wolseley have
leave to make a nonpolitical statement?
Leave? Leave has been granted.
Ms. Jean Friesen
(Wolseley): I would like to offer the congratulations of
this side of the House and of our party and caucus to Jim Compton, CBC
documentary producer, who has won an award.
Mr. Compton is an Ojibway producer who has won the Canada Award to be
presented at the 1992 Gemini Awards this March.
The award was given for a documentary
called Drums, which is a two‑hour presentation on the current situation
and attitudes of aboriginal people in the
I think, Madam Deputy Speaker, what it
shows to all Manitobans is the very significant role that the CBC and other
institutions such as the National Film Board, the federal cultural
institutions, play in our cultural life.
I know that all members of the House would recognize this, that we are
very conscious that the National Film Board and CBC are one of the ways in
which Manitobans are enabled to speak to each other.