LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Friday, February 28, 1992

 

The House met at 10 a.m.

       

Mr. Clerk (William Remnant):  It is my duty to inform the House that the Speaker is unavoidably absent and, therefore, in accordance with the statutes, I would call upon the Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Dacquay) to take the Chair.

 

PRAYERS

 

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

 

PRESENTING PETITIONS

 

Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Filomena Villas, E. Watson, H. Stasiuk and others requesting the government show its strong commitment to dealing with child abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign.

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Wilf Betts, Adele Betts, Paul Danter and others requesting the government show its strong commitment to dealing with child abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Shannon Walesiak, Cindy Hamlin, Darren Solmundson and others requesting the government show its strong commitment to dealing with child abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign.

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  I beg to present the petition of M.L. Taronno, S. Gordon, Val Werier and others requesting the government consider restoring the former full funding of $700,000 to fight Dutch elm disease.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley):  I beg to present the petition of Jean Hunter, Stella LeJohn, Joan Rogers, and others requesting the government consider restoring the former full funding of $700,000 to fight Dutch elm disease.

 

PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES

       

Mr. Bob Rose (Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Economic Development):  I beg to present the report of the Committee on Economic Development.

Mr. Clerk (William Remnant):  Your Standing Committee on Economic Development presents the following as their First Report.

      Your committee met on Thursday, February 27, 1992, at 10 a.m., in Room 255 of the Legislative Building, to consider the October 31, 1990 and 1991, Auditor's Reports and Consolidated Financial Statements and the business of A.E. McKenzie Co. Ltd.

      Mr. Dale Smeltz, Chairperson, Mr. Ray West, Chief Executive Officer and Mr. Ken Robinson, Vice‑President, Finance, provided such information as was requested with respect to the Auditor's Reports, the Consolidated Financial Statements and the business of A.E. McKenzie Co. Ltd.

      Your committee has considered the October 31, 1990 and 1991, Auditor's Reports and Consolidated Financial Statements and the business of A.E. McKenzie Co. Ltd. and has adopted the same as presented.

      All of which is respectfully submitted.

Mr. Rose:  I move, seconded by the honourable member for Niakwa (Mr. Reimer), that the report of the committee be received.

Motion agreed to.

 

TABLING OF REPORTS

 

Hon. James Downey (Minister responsible for The Manitoba Natural Resources Development Act (with respect to Channel Area Loggers Ltd. and Moose Lake Loggers Ltd.)):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I am pleased to table Channel Area Loggers Ltd. Annual Report, 1990‑91, and Moose Lake Loggers Ltd. Annual Report, 1990‑91.

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs):  I am pleased to table the report of The Trade Practices Inquiry Act, and I am pleased to submit the report required under Section 114(4) of The Insurance Act.

* (1005)

 

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

 

Bill 57‑The Consumer Protection Amendment Act (2)

 

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood):  I move, seconded by the member for Flin Flon (Mr. Storie), that Bill 57, The Consumer Protection Amendment Act (2) (Loi no 2 modifiant la Loi sur la protection du consommateur), be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.

Motion presented.

Mr. Maloway:  I am very pleased to introduce Bill 57 to deal with a problem in this province with odometer rollbacks in used cars. I am sure that all members in this House will agree that this is both a timely and necessary bill and, over the past week in particular, it became widely known that consumers had been at risk due to the actions of a few unscrupulous salespeople.

      This legislation has been requested by the RCMP among others who want more power, both to prosecute those found tampering with odometers of used cars and to make it clear that such activities will not be tolerated in this province.

      We know regrettably that the RCMP has said that it is a widespread problem, and it will not go away by wishful thinking.

 

 

Point of Order

 

Hon. James McCrae (Acting Government House Leader):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I would hope the honourable member would remember the rule about the introduction of bills that it is not the time for making a speech.  It is a time for a very brief description of what the bill is.  It has gone beyond that limit already.

Madam Deputy Speaker:  On the point of order, I would draw the attention of the House to Rule No. 85.  It indeed is a point of order.  When a bill is introduced by a member upon motion for leave, the mover of the motion may make such an explanation as will enable the House to understand the purport of the bill, but the explanation is to be brief.

* * *

Mr. Maloway:  In conclusion, I would like to encourage all members to support the passage of the bill, and I look forward to the support of quick passage and support from this government.

Motion agreed to.

 

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

 

Education System

Funding Formula

 

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):  Madam Deputy Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Education and Training.

      Madam Deputy Speaker, another 50 teachers face unemployment which is in addition to the 300 positions lost last year and just adds to the 57,000 unemployed in this province.  It is ironic that at the awards for exceptional children that I attended the day before yesterday, of the eight divisions receiving awards, more than half are going to have their funding cut absolutely by this government and its formula.

      Will the minister acknowledge the difficulty with the formula, something the former minister would not do, and the difficulty it is perpetrating on the province of Manitoba before every school division in the province has to attend at her office to ask for change?  Will she look at that formula and truly have the formula and the funding match the government's rhetoric of investing in children and our future?

* (1010)

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to start by saying that we are very concerned about the quality of education in this province, and that the funding formula which has been instituted was in response to the fact that divisions had felt the previous formula was not working.  The previous formula required a lot of patch‑ups, so in the development of this new formula, stakeholders were in fact the ones who sat around the table and did develop it; and, by and large, in this province, it is working.

 

St. Vital School Division

Funding Formula

 

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):  My supplementary question for the Minister of Education and Training, Madam Deputy Speaker:  Can the minister indicate in the first 60 days of this formula, which is already a failure in its first 60 days, what the percentage increase is to St. Vital School Division versus the percentage increase to private schools this year?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Madam Deputy Speaker, we have not yet announced any funding for independent schools in this province.  I would like to remind the honourable member that this government has provided a total 3 percent increase in Education, which looks very good, compared to the 1 percent increase offered in Ontario.

 

Education System

Funding Formula

 

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):  Madam Deputy Speaker, my final supplementary to the same minister:  Will the minister consider taking some of the millions going to private schools, 11 percent last year and probably 10 percent this year, and channelling that money into the public school system to try to deal with the difficulties incurred by St. Vital, Evergreen, Intermountain and the various school divisions which are suffering under this funding model?

* (1015)

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I think it is very important for the member to know that we are working together with school divisions to look at the issues which they are facing at this time.

 

Mount Carmel Clinic

Cross-Cultural Counselling Unit

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas):  Madam Deputy Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard).  The Cross‑Cultural Counselling Unit at Mount Carmel Clinic provided community‑based mental health services to new Canadians in 10 different languages and in the last year has provided culturally sensitive services to more than 140 people.  Many of these people need counselling services because they have been victims of torture in their own home countries, or because they are having difficulty in adapting to life in a new country.

      This pilot program was funded through the Core Area Initiative for one year, but that funding runs out today.  The cross‑cultural unit is now looking for emergency bridge funding of less than $50,000 while they are searching for new budget sources.

      My question to the Minister of Health is:  Will he provide that bridge funding so that the program can continue to provide community‑based, culturally sensitive mental health services consistent with his government's stated policies?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Madam Deputy Speaker, about a year and a half ago, or maybe it is two years ago now, I had the pleasure of being at Mount Carmel when the program was, as envisioned, kicked off.  I met with some of the individuals who from a volunteer basis were providing that kind of assistance to newcomers to Manitoba.  The department, I believe, earlier this month, was brought into the discussions around the one‑year funding commitment from the Core Area Initiative and has been, I suppose one might say, a last‑minute invitee to the table and has been working with Mount Carmel to see whether there is any resolution that we can participate in as government.

      As I stand today, I do not have the opportunity to provide any more information other than that we (a) are aware of the problem, and (b) are undertaking discussions with Mount Carmel.

Mr. Hickes:  Will the minister personally meet with the people involved with the program so that he can gain a full understanding of the services that are provided through this innovative program?

Mr. Orchard:  Madam Deputy Speaker, I realize there is a danger in having precrafted questions which have to be used, regardless of the first answer.  I indicated to my honourable friend from Point Douglas that 18 months ago or two years ago, I do not know exactly the date, I in fact met with a number of the people who were volunteering to provide services in that program.  My honourable friends in the opposition want instant solutions to everything.

      I have indicated to my honourable friend that earlier this month the department was brought in to this discussion because we were made aware at that time that the Core Area funding would be ending and terminating without any opportunity apparently from Core Area Initiative to continue with this pilot project funding.  Those very discussions are ongoing right now without resolution as I stand today.

Mr. Hickes:  Madam Deputy Speaker, will the minister live up to the commitments that his government has announced over and over to community‑based mental health services and the provisions of services to new Canadians in their language of origin by committing today to provide funding for the program to continue? Yes or no?

Mr. Orchard:  Madam Deputy Speaker, I realize that probably in Ontario the Bob Rae government makes instant decisions on funding.  I do not imagine my honourable friend would want those kinds of zero funding commitments to be made by this government as they are made in Ontario.  I cannot give my honourable friend an answer today because we do not have a budget commitment for that program.

      My honourable friend must appreciate that the government of Manitoba, my mental health division was not involved in any way with the original funding of the program.  It was a Core Area Initiative which was undertaken with exclusive funding outside of the Department of Health.

* (1020)

      In terms of being brought into the discussion earlier this month with the funding ending tomorrow, I believe, the government is attempting to deal with the issue.  I do not have a resolution.  Madam Deputy Speaker, we have only been working with Mount Carmel on this program for this month, not even the full amount of this month.

 

Conawapa Dam Project

Renegotiation

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Madam Deputy Speaker, yesterday the Finance minister (Mr. Manness) indicated that change was a fact of life and that the Repap deal was being renegotiated because of structural change in our midst and changing economic conditions.  Well, when Manitoba and Ontario Hydro negotiated the Conawapa sale, it was on the basis that Manitoba needed the power by the year 2000.  We now know we do not need that power until the year 2012.

      In light of the government's recognition that things have to be renegotiated in changing times, will the Minister responsible for Hydro now agree and now initiate negotiations with Ontario Hydro with regard to renegotiating the contract on Conawapa?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Energy and Mines):  Madam Deputy Speaker, as has been indicated by the Manitoba Public Utilities Board, the agreement that is signed between Manitoba Hydro and Ontario Hydro is good for the people of Manitoba, is good for Manitoba Hydro, and it is not my intention to contact the Ontario government or Ontario Hydro to renegotiate that deal.

 

Repap Manitoba Inc.

Environmental Inspection

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  It is obvious that the government is not prepared to take any initiative.  They only respond when corporations demand that they take initiatives.

      On February 21, Madam Deputy Speaker, a lawsuit was filed in the Court of Queen's Bench, The Pas, between Hendrickson Mechanical & Structural Co. Ltd.  and Repap Enterprises Inc. and Repap Manitoba and Repap Ferrostaal, a copy of which I am prepared to table in this House.  The legal action is a matter of the courts to decide, but a number of issues were raised affecting the government of Manitoba which is not a partner in this suit and therefore can respond to those questions.

      Can the minister responsible for the environment tell this House today if a government environmental inspector was on site at the time of the cleanup to, one, ensure that the cleanup was done properly and two, that the government was getting value for the $3‑million bill that it paid?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Yes, Madam Deputy Speaker, we worked very closely in designing the  making sure that it was done correctly and to standards.  The second part of the question, yes.

 

Bunker Tank

Relocation

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Madam Deputy Speaker, can the Minister of Environment tell the House today if the movement of the Bunker C tanks to a new location was paid for by this government?  At the time they were moved, did they have on file a copy of a testing result which showed that the lines going in and out of the tanks not to be leaking?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  No, I cannot answer specifically to that question, Madam Deputy Speaker.  It only goes to demonstrate the enormous amount of cleanup that has to be done at that site.  The Bunker C for sloppy management practices for the full history of that plant allowed, just simply from sloppy practices, the pollution of an aquifer which we may never be able to clean up.

* (1025)

 

Recycling Programs

Glass Processing

 

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson):  Madam Deputy Speaker, my question is also for the Minister of Environment.

      Last week the government's Sustainable Development initiative was criticized by the Chamber of Commerce as merely a public relations tool.  Today I have another Chamber of Commerce report on the government's Waste Reduction and Prevention initiative stating that once again there does not appear to be in place a mechanism whereby targeted materials may be collected, recycled, and the process funded.

      My question for the minister is:  Will he take action on the confusion surrounding recycling of glass bottles, as this report states, and ensure that recycled glass bottles do not just pile up or end up in landfill sites?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Madam Deputy Speaker, the member raises a point that is one of very considerable concern to myself and to this government, because not only is the issue of recycling important the issue of developing markets to deal with the recyclables.  It is only within the last two or three weeks that we have seen a very severe critique of the blue‑box program in Ontario, because the costs are rising dramatically and being passed back into the municipal associations or the municipal jurisdictions that are dealing with it.

      The concern that we are dealing with‑‑and we have a program in place where we are waiting to deal with the City of Winnipeg to deal with newsprint recycling.  We need to make sure that we have markets available so that we are not simply subsidizing material either to be stockpiled or to be returned to the landfill.

 

Ozone Depleting Substances Act

Enforcement

 

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson):  Will the minister also respond to the criticism in the report that the ozone‑depleting substance regulations are largely symbolic, and immediately strengthen the enforcement mechanism to go along with this act?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Madam Deputy Speaker, the member is now getting on very thin ice.  The regulations that the Province of Manitoba has put in place are considered to be one of the leading sets of regulatory reform in this province for protection of the ozone layer.  Secondly‑‑and I hope the members opposite are listening carefully‑‑the industry has said, by their own calculation, that as soon as the completion of the implementation of the reforms and the direction that are involved in our regulations, within this year we will see a 50 percent reduction in the amount of CFCs released in this province.

Ms. Cerilli:  See how all those refrigerators and air conditioners are going to be collected.

Madam Deputy Speaker:  Order.  Please put your question.

 

Recycling Programs

Newspaper Processing

       

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson):  Madam Deputy Speaker, will the government also take action on its own report on the recycling of newspapers to ensure that newspapers are properly recycled and do not also end up in the landfill as we are currently seeing?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Madam Deputy Speaker, newsprint recycling is one of those issues where we keep expecting the price to rise to $60 or $80 a ton just around the corner.  Unfortunately, because of the world economy and because of the impacts on demand and the type of print being able to be recycled, we are approaching a real market growth as de‑inking plants come on stream.  We expect to see a new de‑inking plant looking for newsprint within a very short period of time.

* (1030)

      I put that on the table, Madam Deputy Speaker, because the ability to recycle newsprint material in this province will be there and will be in place as soon as we can access the markets. As I stated earlier, we have a proposal on the table to work with the City of Winnipeg and to work in regional waste collection programs across the province to be able to approach those markets and provide material very quickly as soon as we see some possibility of a reasonable price return.

 

Manitoba Housing Authority

Layoffs

 

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows):  Madam Deputy Speaker, a year ago the Minister of Housing (Mr. Ernst) abolished 98 locally controlled housing authorities, fired 600 volunteer board members, and now the axe is about to fall on 195 housing staff who will be laid off.

      Can the Minister of Housing tell the House and tell those staff, assure the staff, that the process will be fair and explain why people have to reapply for their own positions?

Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Housing):  Madam Deputy Speaker, the people of Charleswood elected me to this House to effectively and efficiently manage their affairs and spend their money as efficiently as possible.  I think that fact has escaped some of the members opposite in terms of dealing efficiently and effectively with the taxpayers' money.

      With respect to the Manitoba Housing Authority, that is exactly what we were doing, spending their money efficiently and effectively, a lot more so than was done in the past.  We are not perfect here in this House in terms of those kinds of programs, but we are working toward that, and we intend to continue to work toward that.

 

Service Contracting

       

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows):  Can the Minister of Housing then tell Manitoba taxpayers how there can be any savings when a private contractor bills the Manitoba Housing Authority $50 for a fuse, a fuse which costs $1.19, which I bought this morning? Where are the economies of scale?  Where are the efficiencies that this minister talks about and brags about?  Why is the minister contracting out services that are much more expensive?

Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Housing):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I am not familiar with the exact circumstances of that issue.  If the member wants to provide me with the information, I will look into it.

      In general terms, Madam Deputy Speaker, the expectation is that with the realignment and restructuring of the Manitoba Housing Authority, the taxpayers of Manitoba and Canada who share these matters‑‑

Madam Deputy Speaker:  Order, please.

Mr. Ernst:  Madam Deputy Speaker, the taxpayers of Canada and Manitoba anticipate saving some $3 million annually with the restructuring into the Manitoba Housing Authority.  I think that is efficient and effective management.

Mr. Martindale:  Madam Deputy Speaker, paying a contractor $50 to replace a $1.19 fuse is not efficient, is not going to save this government money.

      Can the Minister of Housing explain how contractors are going to provide the personal kind of service that staff and former volunteer board members provided?  Do you realistically expect that they are going to check on senior citizens, that anyone is going to take responsibility for them, especially in small rural communities?

Mr. Ernst:  Madam Deputy Speaker, under the Manitoba Housing Authority, every single project in the province of Manitoba that houses some 22,000 housing units will have direct contact made with it through the Manitoba Housing Authority on a daily basis.

 

Health Sciences Centre

Knee and Hip Replacement Surgery

 

Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The Maples):  Madam Deputy Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

      Patients in need of hip and knee surgery continue to wait for their operations.  We have recently heard from a patient who has been confined to a wheelchair for the last year because she is unable to have a knee operation and she needs that operation now.

      On January 14, the Minister of Health called his quick response team into action and asked it to investigate the freeze on knee and hip surgery which his department, through Health Sciences, has placed for three months.  Madam Deputy Speaker, it is more than 43 days today.

      Can the minister tell us why his quick response team has not provided us with a report?  If he has a report, can he table that in this House today?

 

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I have the report.  I intend to release it Monday pending the receipt of two more pieces of information that I thought would be relevant for the discussion around the report.

      Let me correct my honourable friend on one small point.  The Health Sciences Centre made the decision to not proceed with any more elective surgery in either hip or knee replacement, not the province.  I do not want my honourable friend to leave the wrong impression that we ordered that.  That decision was not ordered by the province.

      I know that my honourable friend will be aware that already this year, in the first nine months of the year, the Health Sciences Centre had undertaken the same volume of services as they did in the previous 12 months.  I am also informed, for my honourable friend's information, that any urgent or emergent replacements of knees or hips are continuing at the Health Sciences Centre.

      The specific case my honourable friend referred to, if it was urgent or emergent, could be dealt with.

Mr. Cheema:  Madam Deputy Speaker, the decision was by the Health Sciences Centre.  I will correct that.

      Can the minister tell us why he would not release the report today so that we, as members of this Assembly, can also make a judgment, because the patients are waiting and they are suffering, and it is costing taxpayers more money to keep them in the hospital and in the community?

Mr. Orchard:  Madam Deputy Speaker, I indicated to my honourable friend that I hope to be able to release the report on Monday, pending receipt of two additional pieces of information that I requested after having received the report yesterday.

      I realize my honourable friend is anxious to have government's response.  I will be pleased to provide that for my honourable friend, but I do need two additional pieces of information that I think he, as a critic, would be asking me for.  In anticipation of that, I want to be fully informed so that I can more fully inform my honourable friend and Manitobans in terms of the circumstance at the Health Sciences Centre.

Mr. Cheema:  Madam Deputy Speaker, can the minister tell us, or assure Manitobans who are waiting for this surgery, as of his initial assessment from the report, can he at least assure us that the surgical procedure will resume as of Monday?

Mr. Orchard:  Madam Deputy Speaker, that assurance was given by the Health Sciences Centre in announcing their decision, in that any emergent or urgent surgeries in either hip replacement or knee replacement would be ongoing.  My understanding is that those urgent and emergent procedures are ongoing.

      As I indicated to my honourable friend in my previous answer, should the circumstance that my honourable friend described be deemed urgent or emergent, that surgical procedure could be undertaken today.

* (1040)

 

Manitoba Housing Authority

Parkland District

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  Madam Deputy Speaker, this government has committed itself to decentralization and talked extensively about employment opportunities it will bring to rural Manitoba.  However, as my colleague from Burrows has indicated, in the past year this same government has abolished local housing authorities and plans to amalgamate them with the Manitoba Housing Authority, closing the office in Swan River, and as a result, the people from Swan River will be served out of Roblin.

      Can the Minister of Housing explain why he has decided to move the office to Roblin and how he expects to adequately meet the needs of approximately 200 housing units in the Swan River area and expect to save money at the same time, if this is what he‑‑

Madam Deputy Speaker:  Order.

Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Housing):  Madam Deputy Speaker, the question of districts for the Manitoba Housing Authority was looked at long and hard.  In the Parkland area, it was divided in half, similar to how the Rural Development Corporations are divided.

      In doing that, there are about 600 units overall in that Parkland west district.  There are 181 units under management in the town of Swan River.  Madam Deputy Speaker, when you look at a geographic map of that area with Shoal Lake in the south and Birch River in the north, Roblin is in the geographic centre of that district.

Ms. Wowchuk:  Roblin also seems to be located in an area that has an imaginary line around it for appointments and jobs.

      Can the Minister of Housing tell this House how many jobs will be lost in rural Manitoba and why he is working against his government's stated policy of decentralizing jobs in rural Manitoba‑‑and not setting up one rural community up against another, and moving jobs from where there are 200 units to a place where there are 60?  This is not centralization‑‑

Madam Deputy Speaker:  Order, please.  The question has been put.

Mr. Ernst:  Madam Deputy Speaker, there were 98 housing authorities in the province of Manitoba; 96 of those are outside the city of Winnipeg.  To change anyone from one community to another is going to cause some friction.  I understand that.

      When you look at the fact that, in the case of the Parkland West region, Swan River is located at the extreme north end of that particular district; and, at some point, you have to make a decision as to where best to situate an office in order to serve the entire district.

Ms. Wowchuk:  In light of the hardship of this decision, the hardship which has been caused to the community of Swan River, which is struggling because of the recession, which is struggling because of farm prices and the loss of jobs from the Repap deal, will the minister reconsider his decision and open the office in Swan River?

Mr. Ernst:  Madam Deputy Speaker, as I have indicated to the member today, several days ago, in correspondence over a past period time, the rationale for locating the office where it is proposed to be located is extremely reasonable and the most efficient location within that district.

     

RCMP

Confiscated Liquor Disposal

 

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon):  Madam Deputy Speaker, over the last few years, the amount of liquor that is being confiscated by police forces in the province has increased dramatically.  I have learned that the RCMP are about to pour some $25,000 worth of confiscated liquor down the drain.

      I want to ask the minister responsible for the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission (Mrs. McIntosh), can she tell this House how much confiscated liquor and beer, the value of that liquor and beer in total, is being poured down the drain?  How many taxpayers' dollars are being wasted by this current practice?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister charged with the administration of The Liquor Control Act):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I will take that question as advisement, check the figures, and get back to the member.

 

Liquor Control Act

Confiscated Liquor

 

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon):  There is another problem which police forces have been raising with the minister for many months.  Madam Deputy Speaker, my question is, given that this minister has the right, under Section 147 of The Liquor Control Act, to resell confiscated liquor, will this minister explain to the House why she is allowing hundreds of thousands of dollars of revenue from booze poured down the drain disappear through this government's fingers?  Is that efficiency?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General):  I think the question is more an evidentiary matter, and not a matter for the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mrs. McIntosh).  I, too, will obtain some information about this, and inform the honourable member.

 

Point of Order

       

Mr. Storie:  Madam Deputy Speaker, the minister responsible for the Liquor Commission (Mrs. McIntosh) unquestionably has the authority to resell unopened confiscated liquor.  It is not an evidentiary matter at all.  It is a matter of government policy. Are they going to allow hundreds of thousands of dollars to be poured down the drain when they could resell this unopened liquor?  That is the question.  It is not an evidentiary question at all.

Madam Deputy Speaker:  The honourable member for Flin Flon does not have a point of order.  The question was directed to the government, and the government may indeed decide which minister shall respond to the question.

* * *

Mr. Storie:  Madam Deputy Speaker, for the third time in a week this minister has refused to respond‑‑

Madam Deputy Speaker:  Order.  Does the honourable member for Flin Flon have a final supplementary question?

Mr. Storie:  My question is to the minister responsible for the Manitoba Liquor Commission (Mrs. McIntosh).

      Given that she has the power, will this minister now put in place a policy that will collect revenue for the province of Manitoba to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year by not pouring liquor down the drain when it is unopened and could be resold for the benefit of everyone in the province?

Mr. McCrae:  Madam Deputy Speaker, we will ascertain if indeed, as the honourable member suggests, ministers of this government do have such powers.  That is not acknowledged by me today, but we will look into the matter.

 

Dutch Elm Disease

Government Position

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Madam Deputy Speaker, earlier this morning I presented, along with the representative for Wolseley, a petition with respect to the funding for Dutch elm disease and the restoration of that funding.  Two backbenchers, the member for Emerson (Mr. Penner) and the member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Connery) said very vocally, perhaps not in Hansard, but certainly from where we could hear it here, that there was absolutely no money, no further money should be spent trying to stop Dutch elm disease because it is a lost cause.

      I would like to ask the First Minister:  Is this the policy of the government of the Province of Manitoba, that they will do nothing further to stop Dutch elm disease and are prepared to watch the trees die?

* (1050)

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Without accepting any of the preamble of the question from the Leader of the Liberal Party, obviously the program has been in place to cut up and remove diseased trees, trees that are already diseased and dying.  I will look into the matter and have the matter responded to by the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns), under whose jurisdiction it does come so that he can engage in a full discussion with the Leader of the Opposition.

      I would say, Madam Deputy Speaker, that this is an area in which the Leader of the Opposition should be debating the issue when Estimates are brought forward on the expenditures of this province, so that she can debate the authorities and the various rationales that are presented with respect to Dutch elm disease and the money that is spent on the removal of diseased trees.

Mrs. Carstairs:  Madam Deputy Speaker, would the First Minister tell us if he is in agreement with his colleagues on his back bench that the money spent on Dutch elm disease is a lost cause?

Mr. Filmon:  Madam Deputy Speaker, as I said earlier, I accept none of the preamble of what the Leader of the Liberal Party has said.

Mrs. Carstairs:  Madam Deputy Speaker, will the First Minister undertake to have discussions with the members for Emerson (Mr. Penner) and Portage la Prairie (Mr. Connery) so that he will know first hand exactly what they said, which was that it was a waste of money?

Mr. Filmon:  Madam Deputy Speaker, last time she said it was a lost cause; then she says it is a waste of money.  She changes her story every time she stands up.

      I invite the Leader of the Liberal Party (Mrs. Carstairs) to debate this issue in Estimates of the Department of Natural Resources where she can obtain, from the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns), all of the rationale and all of the explanation as to what money is being spent with respect to Dutch elm disease.

 

Federal Budget

Impact Cultural Programs

 

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley):  Madam Deputy Speaker, the recent federal budget proposed many cuts which are going to affect Manitobans.  Amongst these are the Cultural Industries Development Fund, cut by $600,000; Telecom Canada, cut by $7.5 million; the National Film Boards Independent Film Makers, $500,000; the Museums Assistance Plan by $1.1 million.  This is on top of severe cultural cuts in the last year.

      I would like to ask the Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship (Mrs. Mitchelson), before she threw her support behind this Mulroney budget, did she determine the impact of these severe cuts on the Winnipeg Art Gallery, the Museum of Man and Nature, The Forks archeology program, the independent film producers of Manitoba, the conservation programs of Manitoba and the local archives networks?  Will she table this information?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship):  Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to make it abundantly clear in this House today that this government has supported our cultural industries in a very major and significant way.  We will continue to support our cultural industries and our cultural institutions in the province of Manitoba.  We consider them extremely important.  We consider that our cultural institutions, our cultural industries not only are a positive example of what Manitobans can do culturally but they also are of economic benefit to our province of Manitoba.  Our commitment is strong, and our commitment will remain.

Ms. Friesen:  Madam Deputy Speaker, to the same minister, I would like to ask:  Has she determined the impact for Manitoba's cultural sector of the federal transfer of $100 million out of retraining programs in the Canadian Jobs Strategy?  Will she table that information?

Mrs. Mitchelson:  Madam Deputy Speaker, we will, over a period of time, be analyzing the impacts of what the federal budget has done to culture in our province.  As I indicated in my first answer, our commitment is strong.  We believe and support our cultural industries.  We believe and support our cultural institutions and we will continue to do so.

 

Property Rights Proposal

Legal Opinion

 

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley):  Has the minister asked for a legal opinion on the implication for Manitoba's heritage of the Conservative property rights proposal for the Constitution?  Will she table that opinion?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship):