LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Thursday, March 5, 1992

 

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

     

PRAYERS

 

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

 

PRESENTING PETITIONS

 

Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington):  Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Terrence G. McCallum, Derek A. Sutherland, Gerald Levesque and others requesting the government show its strong commitment to dealing with child abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign.

     

READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS

       

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member.  It conforms with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules (by leave).  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

      The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth

      THAT child abuse is a crime abhorred by all good citizens of our society, but nonetheless it exists in today's world; and

      It is the responsibility of the government to recognize and deal with this most vicious of crimes; and

      Programs like the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign raise public awareness and necessary funds to deal with the crime; and

      The decision to terminate the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign will hamper the efforts of all good citizens to help abused children.

      WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislature of the Province of Manitoba may be pleased to request that the government of Manitoba show a strong commitment to deal with Child Abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign. (Ms. Barrett)

      I have reviewed the petition, and it conforms with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

      The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth

      THAT child abuse is a crime abhorred by all good citizens of our society, but nonetheless it exists in today's world; and

      It is the responsibility of the government to recognize and deal with this most vicious of crimes; and

      Programs like the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign raise public awareness and necessary funds to deal with the crime; and

      The decision to terminate the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign will hamper the efforts of all good citizens to help abused children.

      WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislature of the Province of Manitoba may be pleased to request that the government of Manitoba show a strong commitment to deal with Child Abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign. (Mr. Chomiak)

     

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS AND TABLING OF REPORTS

       

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, I have a statement for the House with copies for all members and a copy of a working group report on breast cancer screening.

      When I became Minister of Health, I made a commitment that the most fundamental concern of my ministry would be to improve the health status of Manitobans and that I would see that resources were appropriately targeted to those Manitobans who were most at risk of ill health.  In that context, I recognized that women's health would be one of the highest priorities for my ministry.  That is why we created the Women's Health Directorate and why we gave women's health a high profile in the healthy public policy programs division of the ministry.

      I made another commitment that we would not simply keep doing things in the same old way.  We would not continue along the all too familiar pattern where planning for health care is distracted by emotion, by inaccurate information and by inadequate research.

      I am pleased to provide you with the Report of the Working Group on Breast Cancer Screening.  The work done by the Working Group on Breast Cancer Screening challenges the old approach and is based on sound scientific data, analysis and research.  This scientific data may make some people uncomfortable, but I have a responsibility to respond to the valid conclusions of scientific research.

      I made the commitment that the new initiatives and programs of the ministry would receive priority on the basis of the evidence for their effectiveness in terms of improving the health status of Manitobans.  I have attempted to ensure that I have received the best and most expert evidence‑based advice as the basis for reforming the health care system.  For example, that is why I established the Manitoba Centre for Health Policy and Evaluation and why I called together the high‑profile professionals to advise me on one of the most critical women's health issues, breast cancer screening.

      Every year, in Manitoba, over 600 women will get breast cancer.  Except for skin cancer, it is the most common form of cancer in women in Canada, and it is the leading cause of cancer‑related death in women.  It is a tragedy that directly and indirectly touches most Manitoba families.  As with many cancers, the cause and cure for breast cancer continues to elude researchers.  In this province, we are committed to do whatever we can within the resources and the appropriate technology available to assure the best possible protection against the incidence of breast cancer in women.

      One year ago, in January 1991, the ministry convened a working group to address the issue of breast cancer screening and to provide a report and recommendations to me on the advisability of instituting mass mammography screening in Manitoba.  The report of the working group is based on work conducted by an ad hoc technical committee struck in 1989 in response to events in other jurisdictions and in response to changing patterns of practice in Manitoba.  The technical committee had the mandate to assess and identify effective options for early detection of breast cancer.  The committee then turned its work over to the working group which was asked to look at implementation options.

      It should be emphasized that a mixture of clinical mammographies and screening mammographies is already occurring in Manitoba.  In 1991, while the working group was reviewing the evidence, there were over 45,000 mammograms conducted in Manitoba.  The working group was able to concentrate most of its efforts on consideration of the evidence for the effectiveness and risk of various options.

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      The membership of the working group was carefully chosen to represent the best available expertise on breast cancer screening in Manitoba.  Several of them will be present today at 3 p.m. in Room 254 to go over details of the report, Mr. Speaker.  The working group was chaired by Sue Hicks, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Public Policy Programs and also the Director of the Women's Health Directorate.

      The rest of the working group consisted of 13 representatives from medical oncology, surgery, radiology, pathology, the Manitoba Medical Association, the University of Manitoba, Department of Community Health Sciences, the Women's Health Clinic, the Canadian Cancer Society and the Women's Health Branch of Manitoba Health.  Nine of the 13 members including the chairperson are women researchers, health educators, medical practitioners, health care providers or administrators.

      I will not read the list of membership of the committee, but I am sure all members of the Chamber would like to thank the dedicated professionals for their advice and the many hours of work spent on researching to present the report that I am tabling today, Mr. Speaker.

      This group has spent the last year intensively reviewing the current research on the benefits, risks and limitations of mass screening with mammography.  It has also looked carefully at mammography programs that have been established in Europe, the United States and in other provinces in Canada.  To date, British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario and Nova Scotia have established mammography screening programs.

      Women themselves have been asking for clarification of the breast screening issues, and measures are currently underway to provide them with up‑to‑date balanced information about the risks, benefits and limitations of mammography screening.  The Women's Health Branch will work with women's health agencies and others in educating women about breast screening.

      Access to women who, in conjunction with their health care providers, choose periodic screening will be in no way affected by this report, and diagnostic services will remain available as usual.  We will place special emphasis to ensure that women who are in high‑risk categories will continue to have access to screening and diagnostic services.  What this working group has found is that many questions remain to be answered about the effects of mammography screening.

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      The earlier optimism and hoped‑for benefits are not convincingly supported by the evidence at this time.  Women under age 50 do not appear to benefit from periodic screening with mammography in terms of reduced mortality, and the benefits to women over age 50 are still being determined.  The extent of problems that may result from mammography, such as false negative results and false positive results are just beginning to be understood.  We also do not know the risk from additional exposure to X‑rays posed by the screening.

      The working group has recommended that no program be established this year until there is further evidence of benefit to women from mass screening.  Studies such as the Canadian National Breast Screening Study in which Manitoba women participated are expected to provide important information on the issues in question.  These studies have been undertaken precisely because questions exist about the benefits and risks of mammography screening, and to proceed without benefit of their findings at this time would be premature and not in the best interests of women in Manitoba.  This report has the support of the Manitoba Centre for Health Policy and Evaluation, and it is consistent with our government's approach to have solid supportive data before introducing new programs.

      I would like to announce action the ministry is taking in response to the report of the working group.  First, by summer, we will launch an educational campaign to educate women about breast cancer and to educate health professionals on the risks and benefits of the options available for breast cancer screening.

      Secondly, in addition, in conjunction with the Centre for Evaluative Clinical Sciences in Dartmouth, and based on the most recent medical research available and on the best available clinical expertise in Manitoba, we will produce a video on breast cancer screening and make it widely available to women and their physicians.  The video will contain the most up‑to‑date information on the risks and benefits of screening and will contain the kind of detail that will empower women to make informed choices about their own health.

      I will shortly announce the establishment of a breast cancer screening advisory group with appropriate membership to monitor evidence regarding breast cancer screening.  In particular, one of the first tasks of the group will be to review the results of the Canadian National Breast Screening Study which are expected to be released this spring.  The group will also continue to monitor and reassess the appropriate options for breast cancer screening and prevention so that we can take immediate action as new evidence becomes available.

      Fourth, the ministry will continue to support and encourage national and Manitoba research on breast cancer prevention, treatment and screening.  Few of us have not been personally touched by breast cancer, and all of us sense the urgency to deal with this tragic disease.  This government's commitment is to the health and well‑being of all women, and with this commitment comes the responsibility to ensure that health services for women are truly effective and based on sound evidence of benefit. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (St. Johns):  I appreciate the opportunity to put some comments on record in response to the Minister of Health's statement on breast cancer, and I begin on behalf of our caucus by thanking the minister, this government, and the working group who have devoted considerable time delving into a most critical issue for women, that of breast cancer.  We appreciate the focus that this minister and this government have given to this issue, and we appreciate this update report.

      As the minister has said, this is a very scary issue for over half the population of our province and our country.  By the minister's own statistics, in 1989, there were 157 deaths and 655 diagnosed cases of breast cancer.  That is a very scary thought for all of us, Mr. Speaker, for all the women in this House, in this province, in this country.  By the minister's other statistics in our Estimates debates, he has indicated that one in 11 women in this country are struck with breast cancer.  That means one of us in this House can face that prospect at any time.  It is scary, and it needs urgent attention.

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      The minister has indicated that he recognizes the urgency of the problem.  It is urgent because we are getting so many different mixed messages about how to detect, how to treat and how to deal with breast cancer.  The minister has appropriately addressed the mixed message we are getting.

      I, for one, was very concerned and took a very adamant position in Estimates that this government was breaking its promise reiterated in a couple of Speeches from the Throne about the need to have a breast screening mammogram.  I remember yelling from the rooftops and going after the minister like crazy about the lack of action on this issue.  He pointed out to me some of the studies that were coming in indicating that this technology may not be as foolproof and as sound a piece of technology as we had originally thought.

      However, there are still mixed messages out there, as the minister knows, and women like us do not know what to do in terms of getting tested.  Some reports have indicated that the breast screening mammogram has increased the chances of cancer among women by a considerable percentage.  Other studies show that the mammogram has, in certain age categories, improved or reduced deaths among women from breast cancer by 20 percent.  There is confusion and uncertainty, and a need to deal with it urgently.

      I trust that this minister's statement today will be backed up by resources allocated in next week's budget.  I trust there will be staff and resources pulled together to ensure this wide‑sweeping, massive education campaign to tell women about the need to get involved in self‑examination, to get good physical examinations on a regular basis and to study the relationship to diet, stress and physical environment.  I am concerned that this be done on an urgent basis, and I am concerned about a number of other women and health issues.

      The minister has addressed in the past the question of Depo‑Provera, an injectable contraceptive for which there are rumours that it will be imminently approved by the federal drug protection agency.  The minister has indicated he is prepared to fight that kind of approval, but we are asking him today if he will fight the use of that injectable contraceptive among vulnerable target groups in our population, right now in the province of Manitoba, when they are injected with this contraceptive for purposes of sterilization.

      We know that only about 3 percent of all medical research funds goes toward dealing with women's health issues.  That is a very small percentage for over half the population.  We have had the discussions before about what would be an appropriate allocation, and I would like today to use this opportunity to suggest that, for too long, the health of women has been treated as a very secondary second‑class issue, that in fact, many times, women have been treated as guinea pigs for the purposes of trying out and advancing certain products when it comes to contraception or breast implants.

      Everyone in this House knows full well the horror stories around the Meme breast implant and contraceptives like Depo‑Provera, where women have been used as guinea pigs.  We have a saying on this side of the House that, if men could get pregnant, perhaps a lot more money would be devoted to research into contraceptives.

      I would conclude by saying, once again, commendations and congratulations to this minister, and particularly to the members of his working group, who have put long hours into this very important issue of breast cancer screening.  We look forward to being updated with respect to this study, these inquiries and reviews.  We look forward to this issue being treated on an urgent basis.  Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The Maples):  Mr. Speaker, I would like to applaud the government for this step.  In 1988, in our campaign, and 1990 campaign, that was one of the issues.  During the discussion between 1988 and 1990, in all the Health Estimates, that was one of the major issues that all the parties discussed, and we asked the minister to look at the issue very carefully.

      I think we should learn from this very good example, that the data which has been given to us today‑‑and we do not have the time to review the whole process, but it is a good example that we should look at the data very carefully in terms of developing a major policy which is going to have a long‑term impact, and not just follow one example in one part of the world or the other part of the world and just jump on the policy conclusions.  This is a very important issue and is one of the examples where we can develop a long‑term policy.

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      Also, how the health policy centre has been helpful in this issue, that again emphasizes the point that we must be very careful in health policies to develop a policy which will save us money in the long run.  This is one example which will not only save money, but most importantly, it will help more than 50 percent of our population.  I think it is a very serious matter that this cancer in women is one of the leading causes of death in this country.  For an industrialized nation to be worried about such a major issue and not do analysis, I think, is very sad, but now the governments are realizing, and Manitoba has taken the lead.

      I am sure the other provinces can learn from us, because we have data, we have individuals who have worked very hard, and they will continue to develop a policy which will help in the long run.

      Mr. Speaker, I would like to reinforce again that the other aspect which is very important in our health care policy is the education of the public and the education of this particular group, to teach them that we have this health risk problem.  Then each and every person knows the risk factors, and that can be dealt with in terms of health care professionals as well as through the Department of Health.

      The minister should take a positive stand.  They have taken in fact one part, to have a video developed explaining to the women of Manitoba how they can have access to a lot of services. I think we should also make sure that these services are not only available in Winnipeg but also in the North and other rural communities, because this procedure can be done in any community, and if you give advance notice, people can come there and have those procedures done.  We want the minister to make sure that each and every Manitoban has equal access to this good program, and we will continue to monitor and make sure that we are on the right track.

      Finally, I would like to pay our special thanks to the group in this particular section which has worked very hard.  They are very knowledgeable people, and they have no political bias, another good example of how the people of Manitoba can work together to achieve this very meaningful way to provide health care to our people.  Thank you.

 

Introduction of Guests

       

Mr. Speaker:  Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery, where we have with us this afternoon, from St. John's‑Ravenscourt, thirty‑five Grade 9 students, and they are under the direction of Mr. Einarson.  This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Education and Training (Mrs. Vodrey).

      On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here this afternoon.

     

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

       

Clean Environment Commission Report

Provincial Park Land Usage

       

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, I have a question to the Minister of Environment.

      The new Environment Act passed in 1988 or proclaimed in 1988 provided for a public process and an open process for licensing for all new proposed forest management plans in the province of Manitoba.  The government has followed through on the legislation with the Clean Environment Commission hearings and report that is now in the hands of the government and now before the public. There are a number of key recommendations in that report that have a great deal of significance for the people of Manitoba.

      I would ask the Minister of Environment, dealing with specific recommendations in the report, dealing with Nopiming Park and the recommendation asking the government to cancel all commercial forestry activity in all provincial parks in terms of a phased‑out way, whether the government is going to support that recommendation before the ministry, or is it going to act in a contrary way to the recommendations?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Mr. Speaker, the member is correct in stating that this report identifies an issue that has been in front of the public for a number of years in this province, going back to the time when he and his colleagues were the government of this province as well, an issue that is one that frankly this government welcomes a further debate on, and we look forward to an open discussion and a process that will allow public input on the policy issues that are raised around this particular recommendation.

      There were a number of recommendations regarding the future use of park lands.  Mr. Speaker, it is not an issue from which we intend to shy away from.

      I would remind the member of the process under which these recommendations are dealt with.  The director within the Department of Environment will deal with those portions of the recommendations that are the responsibility of the department. In the broader policy issues, we look forward to an open and public process of discussion and in fact, following very much along the lines that were recommended in the report.

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Mr. Doer:  Mr. Speaker, we have had the open public process with the licensing process.  I would remind the minister that the Premier even got involved, Premier Pawley, in 1985, in the Atikaki Park, in stopping the logging that was granted by a licence in 1979, stopping the logging in that wilderness park and negotiating with the company for alternative wood supply outside of that wilderness park.

      The question is, Mr. Speaker, what is the government going to do on those major recommendations?  I recognize that they are broad policy issues, as the minister has indicated, but he has not told us today in the House where the government stands.

      I would ask the minister another specific question.  In 1989, I wrote the minister recommending a process of stakeholders' involvement in many of these licensing and monitoring processes. A similar recommendation has been provided to the minister in this Clean Environment Commission report, calling on the government to establish a stakeholders' advisory committee to not only advise the government and stakeholders on the various resources and issues at stake, but also to monitor the conformity of the company and the province to the terms of the licensing agreement.

      I would ask the minister, will he follow through on that recommendation, a recommendation, quite frankly, that has been before the minister for a number of years on dealing with forest management plans?

Mr. Cummings:  Mr. Speaker, I welcome the Leader of the Opposition raising that question because, as a matter of fact, that is a process that has been written into and used in a number of situations already in this province.  We have involved advisory committees in the Oak Hammock licence.  We have had advisory committees in relationship to operations with Repap, a number of examples where that type of process is used.  The member knows the process probably as well or better than I do.  I would think that he should recognize that to ask me to respond definitively to certain conditions that may or may not be in the licence as written by the director, a licence which, by the way, I am the appeal to.  It would probably be inappropriate for me to comment much further than that.

Mr. Doer:  Mr. Speaker, if the minister is using the model of Oak Hammock Marsh and Ducks Unlimited, and the Repap project where they had chlorine bleach proposed, the last jurisdiction in the world to go ahead with a project like that, then we are in a lot of trouble in this province in terms of where we are going.

 

Clean Environment Commission Report

Provincial Park Land Usage

       

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  A final question to the minister responsible for the divestiture of Repap corporation.  Last week, the minister released terms of reference in this House, terms of reference quite a bit altered from the original terms of reference that the minister had incorporated in the contract he had negotiated.

      My question to the minister responsible:  Will he incorporate in the terms of reference and amend the terms of reference that he now has with the Repap corporation to include some of the recommendations in the Clean Environment Commission report that do impact on the Repap situation, specifically dealing with provincial parks and also dealing with stakeholders' committees, stakeholders' committees that include the inclusion of aboriginal people who are directly affected in the areas that are very, very crucial to this set of discussions with the minister and very much outside of the government's discussions right now?

Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister responsible for the administration of The Crown Corporations Public Review and Accountability Act): Mr. Speaker, what we will not do after the public dialogue leading to the government ultimately making a decision is, we will not forcibly expel cutters from one region and put them into another park like the former government did in 1985.

      Mr. Speaker, page 113 of Article 9 of the Purchaser's Covenant Agreement between Repap and the province spelled out that, and I will quote:  Manitoba reserves the right to withdraw certain areas within the forest managed licensed area.

      It stipulates a number of reasons why, or other uses, which Manitoba deems to be in the public interest.  That is part of the covenant that we have entered into with respect to the Repap agreement.  I would fully expect, as we are structuring the agreement, that certainly a commitment will be made to retain that element within a new agreement.

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North American Free Trade Agreement

Manitoba Opposition

 

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon):  Mr. Speaker, in July of 1991, this government set down six conditions which the government said must be met before they would approve the entering into of a free trade agreement with the United States and Mexico.  On February 17, when I asked the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Stefanson) what the government would be doing if these six conditions were not met, he did not answer.

      Mr. Speaker, it has today become very evident that the six conditions outlined by the provincial government will not be met in the free trade discussions, that in fact Canada is prepared to give up, and the United States continues to ask for concessions that would open the free trade agreement and establish other conditions which would violate the principles set out by the minister.

      My specific question to the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism is:  What specific action is this government going to take when it becomes evident that the free trade agreement will cost Manitoba jobs and not be in Canada's best interest?  What will they do specifically to highlight their opposition?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Mr. Speaker, firstly, I would like to correct the honourable member for Flin Flon that I did answer his question when asked in terms of what our position is, was and will continue to be.  We have said on many occasions that, if those six conditions are not met, we do not support the agreement.  That is what was tabled here at the House back in July of 1991, that we do not support a North American free trade agreement unless those six conditions are met.

      In terms of the one specific condition that he has referred to today in terms of the reopening of the Canada‑U.S. Free Trade Agreement, that is one of our six conditions.  It has been a condition to date of the federal government, if you listened to the Honourable Michael Wilson, that they do not support the opening of the Canada‑U.S. Free Trade Agreement because of concerns relative to particular industries like our cultural industry.  That is our position.  We have stated it on many occasions, and we will continue to state that, Mr. Speaker.

 

Impact on Manitoba

     

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon):  Well, Mr. Speaker, the minister did not answer the question.  The question was:  What specific steps is the minister going to take if he opposes it?  Is it going to be a muted opposition‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Question please.

Mr. Storie:  ‑‑Mr. Speaker, or are they actually going to do something to protect our interests?

      Mr. Speaker, my follow‑up question is to the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism.  Can the minister tell this House what he is going to do to protect the vegetable producers, in particular, who will be devastated by a free trade agreement with Mexico?  Can he tell us how many jobs will be lost as a result‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): First of all, Mr. Speaker, in terms of the Manitoba position, it has been outlined in writing to the federal minister, Mr. Wilson; it has been put on the record on at least two occasions at federal‑provincial trade ministers' meeting, and probably, as a province, we have more often stated our position than any other province within Canada, and I want to make that clear.

      In terms of any trade agreement, there are some winners, there are some losers in terms of the adjustments that would happen to any economy.  Clearly, a major part of it is also one of our conditions, Mr. Speaker, whereby under any free trade agreement, there have to be the necessary adjustment provisions, and that would relate to any industry that is in any way negatively affected by a North American free trade agreement.

Mr. Storie:  Mr. Speaker, we are talking about justice.  A Canadian study‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

Mr. Storie:  Mr. Speaker, my specific question was:  Can the minister tell the House how many jobs are going to be jeopardized by Canada's acquiescing to the U.S. demands and getting into this free trade agreement?  A simple question.  How many jobs?

Mr. Stefanson:  As the honourable member should know, and I would hope he realizes that, under any of these types of negotiations, there are a series of reviews that have been done by all different sectors, by all different industries.  Unfortunately, it is not a science; many of them point to different statistics. Some indicate that Manitoba and Canada might well be a net winner, even under a North American free trade agreement.

      We do have concerns.  We do not support a North American free trade agreement unless six fundamental conditions are met.  I have outlined those for the benefit of the honourable member on many occasions when we debated this under private members' resolutions, on two different occasions.  I outlined them for this House and for the honourable member, and I would encourage him to read Hansard so he gets them perfectly clear.

 

Forestry Industry

Sustainable Development

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, this government has been long on rhetoric on a policy of sustainable development.  The Clean Environment Commission's recommendations yesterday clearly are a blueprint for providing for sustainable development, particularly in the forestry industry.

      We have already heard earlier in this session that, despite this blueprint, the government will not commit itself to phasing out commercial forestry, it will not commit itself to ending commercial forestry in the park lands covered by the Repap agreement.

      My question is to the Minister of Natural Resources.  Will this government commit to a comprehensive, provincial forest policy consistent with the principles of sustainable development before any other forest management licences are renewed, including Repap's?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Natural Resources):  Mr. Speaker, for the sake of some 10,000 Manitobans whose livelihoods depend on commercial forestry, we would want to be very cautious about disrupting their lives in an economy that is already in some difficulty.  If I understand the honourable member's question correctly, my department is very much interested in looking at sustainable forestry in the province of Manitoba.

      My department, and more importantly, interested parties such as the Naturalists Society, The Wilderness Society‑‑Mr. Roger Turenne just a few weeks ago was in my office‑‑are well aware of the fact that senior officials in the department have been working towards putting together the necessary documentation and mechanics for extensive public hearings that will, I suspect, take place later on this spring, extend into the summer and perhaps the fall, that will address some of the very issues that the Clean Environment Commission report draws our attention to.

      I welcome that opportunity because there are a number of issues that need to be addressed, not least of them, one that I know that is near and dear to the heart of my Premier (Mr. Filmon) and to which this government is fully committed, our commitment to the Endangered Spaces Program here in Manitoba.

 

Nopiming Provincial Park

Wilderness Status

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  If the minister and if this government are truly committed to a sustainable forestry policy, then they will come up with a policy.  They will not commit in this House today to, in fact, establishing that policy.

      In light of his response to me, will this government commit itself to designating the northeast corner of Nopiming for wilderness status, given its commitment, he says, to the Endangered Spaces Program?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Natural Resources):  I have just had the privilege of returning from Ottawa where I, on behalf of the Province of Manitoba, affixed my signature to a national forest strategy that indeed this province, along with all other stakeholders, worked very diligently for the last several years to develop.

      It was, by the way, a very encouraging ceremony, with all provincial forestry ministers present, federal government, Canada forestry present, a large number of‑‑I always have trouble with this bureaucratic term for it, I believe they call them NGOs, but it means nongovernment agencies or something like that‑‑other people there that were not directly affected.  A number of them, including representatives of the Canadian Wildlife Federation and others, affixed their signature to that.

      Manitoba, I might say with some pride, had a great deal in developing this policy.  I take this occasion‑‑a former deputy minister of my department, Mr. Dale Stewart, chaired the review committee that led to the successful signing ceremony that I attended yesterday in Ottawa.

      Mr. Speaker, these kinds of policies are ongoing commitments.  They began not just with forestry.  In fact, we began, and my predecessor, with water and soil, with my colleague with agriculture.  We are doing it with forestry.  This government is committed; this government leads the nation in taking the round table discussions seriously.  This province leads the nation in taking‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

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Forestry Industry

Sustainable Development

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  One has to wonder how many trees were destroyed for all the paper that moved all around those tables during the signing procedures.  The problem is we wanted just a little commitment to a northeast corner of a wilderness park to get a designation so it would not be used for commercial logging, and we cannot get that.

      Well, perhaps we can get another commitment from the Minster of Natural Resources.  Will the government at least commit today to develop a comprehensive provincial forest policy consistent with the principles of sustainable development?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Natural Resources):  Mr. Speaker, it has been my experience, having been resource minister of this province on several occasions‑‑you know the one thing, the general public and particularly those who are, if you like, watchers of the environment, that concerns them the most is if governments do things without consultation.  I cannot talk about a cottage development in a park without being criticized if I do not take in the broadest consultation.

      Mr. Speaker, surely nobody on that side suggests that a fundamental alteration, a fundamental change in policy and in management should take place without consultation.  These consultations are going to take place, and what is important to know is that it is just not myself reacting to today's question. Mr. Roger Turenne of the Wilderness Society knows that to be a fact; Ms. Alison Elliot of the Manitoba Naturalists Society knows that to be a fact.  They have in fact been working with some of my officials since fall in developing the process that will lead to that broad public discussion that the Clean Environment Commission calls for.

      That will be the first order of business.  That will commence, I suspect, on or about May or June and no doubt will lead into the fall.

 

CareerStart

Funding Restoration

 

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):  Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Finance.

      According to Statistics Canada, the youth unemployment rate in Manitoba has increased dramatically to 16.8 percent.  As of January of this year, there were 17,000 unemployed youth in this province, an increase of 31 percent over January of last year.

      In view of the fact that this government cut youth employment programs in half last year, is the government now prepared to reinstate these programs to at least the 1990‑91 level? Specifically, will last year's $3‑million cut in CareerStart program be continued, or can we expect CareerStart to be increased to the $6‑million level of the previous year?

Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Finance):  Mr. Speaker, budgetary decisions have been made, even before the question being put by the member today.  They will be announced in their complete fullness, Wednesday next.

Mr. Leonard Evans:  The 17,000 unemployed young people will be anxiously awaiting the minister's announcement, I am sure.

 

Northern Youth Corps Job Program

Funding Restoration

 

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):  Will this government reinstate the Northern Youth Corps job program that was killed last year in spite of the fact that unemployment levels in northern Manitoba are the highest in this province?

Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Finance):  Mr. Speaker, one of my colleagues has helped me in my response to the member.  He will know that fully in six more sleeps.

Mr. Leonard Evans:  This is not a laughing matter with the 17,000 young people who do not have a job in this province.  Talk to their families, to the thousands on welfare in this province, and you are doing nothing about it.

 

Student Temporary Employment Program

Funding Restoration

 

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):  Mr. Speaker, is this government prepared to increase funding of the Student Temporary Employment Program this year in view of the fact that there has been a sharp increase in youth unemployment in this province to 16.8 percent?

Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Finance):  Mr. Speaker, this is not a laughing matter.  I say to the member opposite, his questions will be answered fully.  Also, it was no laughing matter indeed when the former government applied a 2 percent tax against everybody that earned $11,000 and more, destroyed jobs and sent the youth in this province outside, and killed the business initiative in this province.  That was no laughing matter.

      I say to the member, if they want to look at the reason for some of the problems we have today, all they have to do is reflect on the decisions they made around the cabinet table from 1984 to 1987.

 

Domestic Violence

Bail Conditions

 

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):  Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.  Despite the Pedlar report, despite the fact the Crown has now opposed bail in situations of abuse and abuse victims and in spite of federal lack of action in this area, often abusers get out on bail.

      As a concrete suggestion, I would like to ask the minister: Will he not ask his Crown prosecutors, in cases of bail, that a bail condition be imposed on an abuser that requires daily reporting to probation officers in order to ensure a check on the abuser and to provide some comfort and security to the victim of an abuse?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, that is a suggestion that I have raised and encouraged upon prosecutors so that they could ask for such things in cases where judges feel that it is appropriate that accused abusers be let out on bail.  That kind of submission is available to the Crown, and we are aware of it.  We take that suggestion very positively and thank the honourable member.

Mr. Chomiak:  Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for that response.

 

Rehabilitation Programs

       

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):  In conjunction with the Pedlar report, I am wondering if the minister can advise us whether or not the Crown has instituted any programs to deal with abusers in order to stem the tide of abuse in our society.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General):  By the Crown, I take it the honourable member means the justice system and the system that we have in general.  The Pedlar review does identify a need to deal with abusers while, at the same time, deal as well as we can with people who are victims of abusers.  In that regard, we are pleased with the performance of the Department of Family Services, under successive ministers in the last four years, with regard to funding for the shelter system, a very, very significant increase in funding over levels prior to our government taking office.

      Yes, indeed, the Pedlar report deals with going eyeball to eyeball, as it were, with abusers and making them responsible for their behaviour.  That includes things like sentences that include probation and counselling as a condition of that probation.

Mr. Chomiak:  Mr. Speaker, my final supplementary to the same minister is along the same lines.  I wonder if the minister can advise me whether or not the working group has met and whether we can expect concrete actions in the form of programs, as recommended in the Pedlar report, in which there has been no action‑‑in abeyance basically on most of those recommendations since the fall of last year?

Mr. McCrae:  Mr. Speaker, I suppose the honourable member could say that there has been no appearance of action, but indeed a couple of days ago the working group met, the community advisory group will be meeting later this month, so we believe there is nothing stopping us from proceeding along.  There is progress which would flow from the Pedlar report.

      Just before I sit down, since the honourable member for Kildonan has shown an interest in trying to curb violence, I wonder if he could encourage his colleagues to take a stand with respect to the deplorable language used by Daryl Bean in dealing with people who choose to work during the week when‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

* (1420)

 

University of Manitoba

Student Food Bank

 

Mr. Reg Alcock (Osborne):  Mr. Speaker, for four years now, we have been warning the government about the inadequacy of the student aid provided to university students in this province and other students in this province.  The situation has gotten so bad at the University of Manitoba that they had exhausted their emergency aid budget by November.  Their annual budget ran out in November, and students on the campus have begun to organize a food bank to ensure that other students have adequate food.  I think it is deplorable that we have reached a point in this country where food banks outnumber McDonald's, and that is the only alternative left to people.

      I would like to ask the Minister of Education if it is her government's policy to use food banks as an alternative to adequate financial aid for students?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, the conditions that students are experiencing are of great concern to this government and great concern to me as minister.  I was a student until I was elected to this government as well.  I know many of those students, both young people and also adult students who have come back to study.  The issues are of great concern.  I am raising the issue at a federal level as well to press the federal government, through the Council of Ministers of Education and individual meetings, to try and provide adequate assistance to students in Manitoba.

Mr. Alcock:  Raising the support might help, Mr. Speaker.

 

Department of Education

Underspending

 

Mr. Reg Alcock (Osborne):  Mr. Speaker, will the minister assure the House that the $6.6 million underspent in her department was not in part taken from the Student Aid Program?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, I am reviewing the results of that with my department now, but as the member will know, that percentage within my department, which is an extremely large budget, was an extremely small percentage.  I am examining it at this point‑‑less than 1 percent.

 

Budget Student Aid

     

Mr. Reg Alcock (Osborne):  Well, Mr. Speaker, 1 percent of $1 billion would provide a lot of aid for students in this province.  Will the minister ensure the House that the budget will contain sufficient support for students so that the opening of this food bank at the university will become unnecessary?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, I can say again that I am very concerned with the need for a food bank at the University of Manitoba and for any students who find themselves in that type of need, but the budget will be tabled next Wednesday in this House.