LEGISLATIVE
ASSEMBLY OF
Monday,
March 16, 1992
The House met at 1:30
p.m.
PRAYERS
ROUTINE
PROCEEDINGS
PRESENTING
PETITIONS
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The
Pas): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of
Arthur Desjarlais, Joseph Cote, Chris Desjarlais and others requesting the
government show its strong commitment to aboriginal self‑government by
considering reversing its position on the AJI by supporting the recommendations
within its jurisdiction and implementing a separate and parallel justice system.
Mr. Daryl Reid
(Transcona): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of
Maureen Kaiser, Linda Jeffrey, Andrea Badgley and others requesting the
Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae) call upon the Parliament of Canada to amend
the Criminal Code to prevent the release of individuals where there is
substantial likelihood of further family violence.
Mr. Gregory Dewar
(Selkirk): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of
G.M. Ralph, Bozena Haneu, Lena Haddad and others requesting the Minister of
Justice call upon the Parliament of
Ms. Marianne Cerilli
(Radisson): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of
Michelle Frankton, Dawn Pullon, Darcy Normand and others requesting the
Minister of Justice call upon the Parliament of
Mr. Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the
honourable member, and it complies with the privileges and practices of the
House and complies with the rules. Is it
the will of the House to have the petition read?
The petition of the undersigned citizens
of the
The Aboriginal Justice Inquiry was
launched in April of 1988 to conduct an examination of the relationship between
the justice system and aboriginal people; and
The AJI delivered its report in August of
1991 and concluded that the justice system has been a massive failure for
aboriginal people; and
The AJI report endorsed the inherent right
of aboriginal self‑government and the right of aboriginal communities to
establish an aboriginal justice system; and
The Canadian Bar Association, The Law
Reform Commission of
On January 28, 1992, five months after
releasing the report, the provincial government announced it was not prepared
to proceed with the majority of the recommendations; and
Despite the All‑Party Task Force
Report which endorsed aboriginal self‑government, the provincial
government now rejects a separate and parallel justice system, an Aboriginal
Justice Commission and many other key recommendations which are solely within
provincial jurisdiction.
WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray
that the Legislature of the
I
have reviewed the petition of the honourable member, and it complies with the
privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the
petition read?
The petition of the undersigned citizens
of the
The bail review provisions in the Criminal
Code of Canada currently set out that accused offenders, including those
suspected of conjugal or family violence, be released unless it can be proven
that the individual is a danger to society at large or it is likely that the
accused person will not reappear in court; and
The problem of conjugal and family
violence is a matter of grave concern for all Canadians and requires a
multifaceted approach to ensure that those at risk, particularly women and
children, be protected from further harm.
WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray
that the Legislature of the province of Manitoba may be pleased to request that
the Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae) call upon the Parliament of Canada to
amend the Criminal Code of Canada to permit the courts to prevent the release
of individuals where it is shown that there is a substantial likelihood of
further conjugal or family violence being perpetrated. (Mr. Reid)
I
have reviewed the petition of the honourable member, and it complies with the
privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the
petition read?
The petition of the undersigned citizens
of the
The bail review provisions in the Criminal
Code of Canada currently set out that accused offenders, including those
suspected of conjugal or family violence, be released unless it can be proven
that the individual is a danger to society at large or it is likely that the
accused person will not reappear in court; and
The problem of conjugal and family
violence is a matter of grave concern for all Canadians and requires a
multifaceted approach to ensure that those at risk, particularly women and
children, be protected from further harm.
WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray
that the Legislature of the province of Manitoba may be pleased to request that
the Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae) call upon the Parliament of Canada to
amend the Criminal Code of Canada to permit the courts to prevent the release
of individuals where it is shown that there is a substantial likelihood of
further conjugal or family violence being perpetrated. (Mr. Chomiak)
I
have reviewed the petition of the honourable member, and it complies with the
privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the
petition read?
The petition of the undersigned citizens
of the
The bail review provisions in the Criminal
Code of Canada currently set out that accused offenders, including those
suspected of conjugal or family violence, be released unless it can be proven
that the individual is a danger to society at large or it is likely that the
accused person will not reappear in court; and
The problem of conjugal and family
violence is a matter of grave concern for all Canadians and requires a
multifaceted approach to ensure that those at risk, particularly women and
children, be protected from further harm.
WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray
that the Legislature of the province of Manitoba may be pleased to request that
the Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae) call upon the Parliament of Canada to
amend the Criminal Code of Canada to permit the courts to prevent the release
of individuals where it is shown that there is a substantial likelihood of
further conjugal or family violence being perpetrated. (Mr. Clif Evans)
* (1335)
MINISTERIAL
STATEMENTS AND TABLING OF REPORTS
Hon. Harry Enns
(Minister of Natural Resources): Mr.
Speaker, I am pleased to table with the House the Annual Report of the ministry
of Natural Resources for the year '90‑91.
Hon. Eric Stefanson
(Minister responsible for Sport): Mr.
Speaker, I have a ministerial statement.
One week ago, it was with great pleasure
that I rose before the members and, on behalf of the members and citizens of
Manitoba, took the opportunity of congratulating Connie Laliberte and her Fort
Rouge rink of Laurie Allen, Cathy Gauthier, Janet Arnott and Arlene MacLeod on
winning the Scott Tournament of Hearts Canadian women's curling championship.
It is with that same great pleasure that I
rise again today to extend congratulations to Manitoba's new Canadian men's
curling champions‑‑Vic Peters and his rink from the Granite Curling
Club, Dan Carey, Chris Neufeld, Don Rudd and fifth man, John Loxton.
While the Peters rink had previously
served notice in
Like the women before them, the Peters
rink has brought pride and distinction, through curling, to themselves, their
families, the Granite Curling Club and the
The Peters victory now gives
On one other point, there were two other
teams that deserve recognition in the House today. The Canadian University Athletic Union
women's volleyball championship was determined over the weekend, and the final
featured both
Mr. Clif Evans
(Interlake): Mr. Speaker, I rise to also add our
congratulations to Vic Peters and his rink from the Granite Curling Club. As we are certainly aware, it is the first
time since 1984 that
For those of us who were able to follow
Vic Peters rink throughout the week, we noted a splendid performance, ending up
in first place overall, getting a buy into the final, and if we were able to
watch yesterday's game against Russ Howard, the previous world champion, or a
world champion of his own, I am sure that many of us spent quite a bit of time
in front of that TV chewing our nails as, I may add, I did, for sure.
We on this side of the House offer our
congratulations, not only to Vic Peters and his rink, but to Connie Laliberte
and her rink and wish them all the very, very best. I think we are aware that not only do we have
excellent representatives in the curling, but we have excellent ambassadors
representing not only
*
(1340)
Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The
Maples): Mr. Speaker, we would also like to join with
the members of this House in extending our best wishes to the
They have done a wonderful job, and they
have given a good name to the people of
Mr. Speaker, we would also like to extend
our best wishes to the other two teams, the
Hon. Clayton Manness
(Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I would
like to table the first Quarterly Financial Report of the Manitoba Public
Insurance Corporation.
Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson
(Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship): Mr. Speaker, it is with pleasure that I table
Issues, Trends and Options: Mechanisms
for the Accreditation of Foreign Credentials in
Mr. Speaker, I have just tabled the
executive summary of the report prepared by the Working Group on Immigrant
Credentials. This report will guide us as we take steps to help immigrants use
the skills and talents they bring to our province.
As we approach the 21st Century, people
from every country, every continent around the globe are still choosing to come
to
This problem is a serious one that needs
to be resolved. The failure to address
it adequately robs our new immigrants of access to a better future and deprives
the greater community of the potential benefits of their contributions. This awareness has led us to take positive
measures, such as our creation in February 1991 of the Citizenship Division of
Culture, Heritage and Citizenship. By
bringing the Immigration and Settlement Services Branch from Family Services
and the Adult Language Training branch and Working Group on Immigrant
Credentials from Education and Training into one operation, we created a
vehicle which has the ability to move decisively to meet the needs of the
immigrant population in
Already we are experiencing positive
results of this reorganizational move.
The Working Group on Immigrant Credentials recently delivered to me this
comprehensive report on their findings, and we have been able to react quickly
to the recommendations. As a result, Mr.
Speaker, I am pleased to announce we have committed $150,000 in new money
towards the immediate implementation of many of the recommendations
outlined. Through this funding and the
redirection of extensive internal resources of the department, we have
established an Immigrant Credentials and Labour Market Branch within the
Citizenship Division of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship.
*
(1345)
One of the report's strongest recommendations
is the establishment of a central clearing‑house with international,
national and provincial links to assess foreign credentials. The branch will be just such a clearing‑house. It will begin by establishing a data bank
which allows educational institutions and credential granting bodies to access
information from foreign degree‑granting institutions. This data bank will be an immensely important
resource in the screening and evaluation of offshore credentials presented to
us. The branch will immediately begin
developing a directory of how credentials are granted in the various trades and
professions. Steps will then be taken to
ensure this directory is made available to every Canadian embassy, consulate or
other foreign post around the world.
The data bank and directory will be
further supported by a credential assessment officer. The officer will assist immigrants in
accessing information about having their own degrees and credentials recognized
in
Through this new branch, we will begin
working immediately with various institutions at all levels to facilitate the
process of how credentials are granted.
The branch will be responsible for identifying the demands of
It will not be an instant overnight
fix. It is an important first step in opening
doors for immigrants. We are confident
that this branch will help us to better utilize our human resources right here
in
Ms. Marianne Cerilli
(Radisson): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to be able to
respond to the minister's statement about this very important issue for
newcomers to
A credentials and skills evaluation
network is available in other jurisdictions.
I would encourage the government to spend the money to purchase the
computer system so that Manitoba can access that, also to tie this in with
other immigration policies like the focus on the investor class, which may
decrease the number of professional immigrants who we have coming to Manitoba,
to tie this program into other programs like English language training, English
as a second language training, so that when people come here and have the
academic qualifications, but what is really the barrier is that they need to
improve their English, to see that this is also provided for and that programs
which have been taught at Red River are reinstated to support this kind of a
positive initiative.
We will be watching to see that the full
range of recommendations made in this report are implemented, specifically the
ones that are going to deal with the professional and trade associations that
are providing a variety of barriers and are not regulated in any way in this
province. We will be looking forward to
seeing the government implement the many recommendations in this report.
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux
(Inkster): Mr. Speaker, for far too long many
Manitobans' talents, expertise and skills have been wasted by both the federal
government's and the provincial government's failure to recognize the
importance to bring on stream some sort of a body that would allow individuals
in Manitoba who are qualified to be able to compete on an equal footing.
I welcome, and the Liberal Party welcomes,
in fact, the working paper but do have some concerns. I know, for example, the minister, later on
this evening, is going to be meeting with some individuals who were invited to
present this particular working paper.
In talking to one of the groups, Mr. Speaker, I was told that in fact
they were not contacted in terms of having some sort of input into the working
paper. I hope and I trust that the
government has gone out to the communities, as they have gone out to the
communities now to present the working paper, but previously went out to the
different ethnic communities to get the input prior to coming up with the
paper.
*
(1350)
Mr. Speaker, the Liberal Party had
introduced a resolution a couple of sessions ago in which we acknowledged the
need to have some sort of a data bank. I
commend the minister on taking such a positive action. I think it is long overdue. In fact, we look to the
My colleague, our Health critic, had made
reference to a particular program that would have seen physicians accepted and
going out to rural
There are areas in which we believe that
the government can go and work a lot more, put more resources in terms of
ensuring that we are not wasting the skills that we have here in
Hon. James Downey
(Minister of Energy and Mines): Mr.
Speaker, I have a ministerial statement, and I have copies for distribution.
Mr. Speaker, I wish to report to the
Legislature today of a signing of an historic Northern Central Hydro
Electrification Agreement.
The agreement signed today is to supply
unlimited hydro landline electricity to nine communities in northeastern
Manitoba, specifically, the seven First Nations of Oxford House, Gods River,
Gods Lake, Red Sucker Lake, Garden Hill, St. Theresa Point and Wasagamack, as
well as two northern communities of Gods Lake Narrows and Island Lake. The agreement was signed by
This agreement is cost‑shared at a
ratio of:
The project is scheduled for completion in
1997 with an estimated cost of $117 million.
This project will provide considerable employment to our province over
the next five years, with many of the jobs being done by northerners. In addition to training and employment, we
expect much of the construction of the landline to be done by northern
entrepreneurs and businesses resulting in positive spin‑offs to the local
communities.
The scope of the work includes an
environmental impact study currently underway, the design and construction of a
high‑voltage transmission line with related transformer stations,
subtransmission lines and distribution systems.
Actual construction will include approximately 344 kilometres of
transmission line, 178 kilometres of distribution lines, four transformer
stations and the upgrading of an internal distribution system, the removal of
diesel generating plants, including fuel storage facilities and restoration of
sites.
*
(1355)
I applaud the co‑operation between
the four parties, Mr. Speaker. This
project will provide considerable employment to our province over the next five
years. Many of the jobs, as I have said,
will go to northerners. The skills
developed and enhanced during the term of the project can in turn be applied in
these communities to produce positive spin‑offs for those northern
communities.
This is long overdue and will make vast
improvements to the standard of living and quality of life in each of these
communities. We are pleased to finalize
negotiations with
Mr. Elijah Harper
(Rupertsland): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to respond to the
ministerial statement.
I believe the project is long
overdue. What I would like to say is that
it was not up to the governments to make it happen. Everything that we have
achieved as aboriginal people in this country has been up to the aboriginal
people themselves. What the minister is
announcing is initiatives that should have been done a long time ago. We should not even have to beg for these
services. These are human rights that
should be guaranteed automatically to the aboriginal people.
These resources come from the North, right
beside our communities. They flow
through the communities, yet the services and the quality of life that we get
from these resources are benefitted by southern people. It is a shame.
In 1986, we announced for a hydro
development together with the federal government, and the federal government
did not act, did not co‑operate with us‑‑not just only hydro
development. I give you an example of
the treaty land settlement, which I initiated here in this province as a
minister of this government. I passed an
Order‑in‑Council, and what did the federal government do? Nothing‑‑they sat on it.
What is happening today is because of our
initiatives as aboriginal people in this country. We are talking about unity, working together
as aboriginal people. That is why it is
happening today, not just because of kindness and generosity of the
government. It is the generosity and the
kindness of the aboriginal people who shared the land and resources, why
everybody else is living prosperously, the standard of living that exists in
this country. In the meantime, our
communities are suffering. It is about
time‑‑and credit should go to the people, our Indian people. It is about time they get something.
I would like to say with those few words‑‑I
know, as I said earlier this morning, that the elders would not want me to
speak with anger but rather to be appreciative and thankful. On behalf of the aboriginal people, we would
like to work with you and work on those projects so that we have an involvement
in the decision‑making process as part of our self‑government and
respect that. That is all we ask for,
nothing more and nothing less. Thank
you.
Mr. Paul Edwards (St.
James): Mr. Speaker, it is truly one of the great
ironies of development in the North and hydro development in particular that
while various governments have built dams to ship power across the continent,
the communities themselves that have paid the price for that power have not
been electrified and have not had the benefit of the same services which they
export. That is an irony which is clearly
not lost on the aboriginal community that populates most of the communities in
the North. It is not an irony which is
lost, I believe, on those fair‑minded Manitobans who have seen
development in the North, have seen the legacy of injustice, the legacy of
hardship and of friction between northern communities and various governments
and Manitoba Hydro, and through their obligation to the Native people, the
federal government.
*
(1400)
Mr. Speaker, I simply want to indicate
that certainly we applaud this improvement which will come to these
communities. We all join comments, and as the minister says himself, it is long
overdue. Everyone acknowledges
that. We look forward to the
environmental review process which, this as well as all other projects, should
and will go through. I know that the
communities themselves rushed to have the services. They obviously will support, and I know they
have in the past, a full environmental review.
Mr. Speaker, with respect to the job
creation in the North, that is a promise which was made with Limestone. That is a promise which is being made with
Conawapa. We see it again here in
print. We look forward to the training
initiatives, to the announcement of the training initiatives which will train
the people in northern Manitoba to take the highly skilled jobs to come out of
this type of project, this type of investment with skills for the future,
because that was not the case with respect to Limestone. We fear that is not the intention of this
government with respect to Conawapa, and we want to have the government of the
day put some teeth into that commitment on behalf of northern Manitobans.
Finally, it is, I think, important to
recognize that this government has already been committed for a year and a half
to a $5.8‑billion project, and roughly the same amount of money, about
$117 million, has already been spent in preparing for Conawapa. Just now, we
are getting around to spending that money to electrify and provide services to
these communities. It is far too late,
but we look forward to the end result, in fact, the coming to fruition of the
commitment to create jobs and economic benefit to northern Manitobans. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
ORAL
QUESTION PERIOD
Department
of Government Services
RCMP
Investigation‑Leasing Branch
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of
the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, one of the most important issues
dealing with the public is the public trust dealing with the Government
Services Department and the leasing offices of Government Services.
Mr. Speaker, we were informed last week
that members of the RCMP visited
Can the Premier inform Manitobans of what
the RCMP is investigating at those offices?
What is the nature and scope of their investigation at
Hon. Gerald Ducharme
(Minister of Government Services): Mr.
Speaker, I am glad to get on the record.
First of all, I will give a brief summary. We had an indication that there might be some
irregularities in the administration of the consulting contract connected with
the government lease from Manitoba Housing on Broadway. The irregularities appear to have occurred
within the department and have no relation to the landlord.
Once this came to our attention, we began
looking into the matter and ordered an internal audit investigation. After reviewing the results of the audit, the
advice of the legal counsel, we turned the information over to the RCMP. Now, with the RCMP involved, the matter is
under criminal investigation.
I cannot provide further details to the
member; however, I can confirm that the employee involved with this contract
has been reassigned to another area of the department until this matter has
cleared up.
Also, the internal audit report has been
turned over to the Civil Service Commission for their review and their
recommended action. I can assure you that
we acted immediately upon hearing and learning of this alleged problem, and my
department will continue to pursue this matter rigorously until it is resolved,
Mr. Speaker.
Internal
Audit
Leasing
Branch
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of
the Opposition): As the minister has indicated, an internal
audit has led to the RCMP being called in by the government. Given the fact that the leasing department of
government has such great contact with the public, and because of the issue of
leasing, tendering and the whole issue of its interaction with the public of
Manitoba, I would ask the minister whether he will be releasing the internal
audit that led to the RCMP investigation in that this is a very important
public office. It is very important that
the public knows the nature and scope of the investigation so that we may
address ourselves accordingly.
Hon. Gerald Ducharme
(Minister of Government Services): For the
sake of the individual involved and the department‑‑I have already
expressed that there is criminal investigation, RCMP, and also the Civil
Service Commission is looking at it‑‑it would be unwise at this
time to release that particular audit.
There will be many times during the process and after the completion of
the RCMP. They have asked us to co‑operate
with them fully. We have done that and
will continue to do that.
RCMP
Investigation
Leasing
Branch
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of
the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, the RCMP, as well as
interviewing a number of people, took blueprints from a number of different
buildings in Government Services and leasing department.
Is the minister able to advise the public,
through this Chamber, of what buildings are under investigation?
Hon. Gerald Ducharme
(Minister of Government Services): We are
investigating one particular individual.
That is what the RCMP are doing.
The individual is involved in several buildings, however, we are mainly
looking at one individual. That is what
the RCMP investigations are carrying out at this particular time.
Social Assistance
Employment
Creation Strategy
Mr. Doug Martindale
(Burrows): Mr. Speaker, today the Social Planning
Council issued a report with recommendations on child poverty in
We know that this report and their
research says that this results in higher health costs for children, and one of
the future problems is decreased employment productivity of these children as
adults. However, while this government
has spent $90 million this year on social assistance, this money is still
maintaining children in poverty, not getting them out of it.
Can the Minister of Family Services tell
us what his government is doing to increase job creation programs to help people
get off social assistance instead of cutting back on income supplement programs
as they have done?
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer
(Minister of Family Services): Mr.
Speaker, I would advise the member that we have not cut back on social
allowance payments, but we announced an increase in that in November, an
increase which I think is nearly twice the rate of inflation and compares quite
favourably with at least one other province that has made a rate adjustment.
As far as job creation programs, we did
announce in the budget, a Partners with Youth Program, which we will be giving
further clarification to in the near future.
I did meet with the Social Planning Council within the last few weeks to
look at the report. They have now
formally made it public, and the report is before the department for
comment. I would also mention the
federal government, in a recent announcement, has announced that they will be
coming forward with a program for children which looks very similar to our
CRISP program. It is a program that we
have encouraged the federal government to work on and bring forward, and we are
looking forward to the details of that plan.
CRISP
Benefits
Mr. Doug Martindale
(Burrows): Mr. Speaker, will the Minister of Family
Services now join with the Social Planning Council and many other groups in our
society in striving to eliminate child poverty and reconsider what is
effectively a cutback in the CRISP benefits which they have cut back every year
in office since 1988?
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer
(Minister of Family Services): Mr.
Speaker, of course, we will have an opportunity to look at the budget line by
line and discuss the details of that, but I have just indicated to the member
that the federal government has announced a new program for child poverty and
for low‑income families, and the details, which have not been completely
enunciated at this time, appear to be that they are bringing forward a program
quite similar to CRISP. As well, they
are going to have a program which deals with nutrition for low‑income
families, and again, they are working on the details of that.
We have had an opportunity to meet with
federal officials within the last few weeks, and I expect there will be more
information forthcoming in the next few months.
Mr. Martindale: We welcome any federal initiatives which
provide improvements, but what we see from the provincial government instead is
cutbacks in their programs.
Benefit
Cap
Mr. Doug Martindale
(Burrows): I would like to ask the Minister of Family
Services why his government is planning on putting a cap on social assistance
levels and punishing people on social assistance, giving them less income
instead of more, especially people on social assistance in the city of
*
(1410)
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer
(Minister of Family Services): Mr.
Speaker, I just indicated that rather than put a cap on social assistance
funding, we gave a substantial increase to social assistance recipients with a
3.6 percent increase in the general assistance funding. Again, I would point out, it compares quite
favourably to the 2 percent that
As well, in these difficult economic
times, we created a new program, a program for the disabled, which is going to have
a cost to government of some $8 million.
We also are bringing forward legislation that I believe the member is
going to support whereby we make the availability of social assistance common
throughout the province. No matter where
you live in
Seven Oaks
Youth Centre
Closure
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs
(Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr.
Speaker, on Friday my critic released parts of the Suche report, which the
minister has had for a number of weeks, on the Seven Oaks Centre. He released that report because consistently
every year, with a variety of ministers, my party has raised concerns about the
Seven Oaks Centre. I raised them with
the then‑Minister of Social Services Muriel Smith in 1987, and at that
point said Seven Oaks is a closed custody setting, and it is an entirely
inappropriate setting for a child who has been molested sexually or
physically. Nothing was done. We now have had several reports, most
recently the Suche report, with more incidents this weekend being reported
about the Seven Oaks Centre.
Will the minister tell us today what is
going to be done about the Seven Oaks Centre?
Is he going to close it as it should have been some years ago? Is he going to put those children finally in
appropriate placements?
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer
(Minister of Family Services): Mr.
Speaker, yes, we did talk about this last Friday when your critic for Finance,
and whatever else, brought this issue up.
The Suche report was a report commissioned by this government, and I
have had it now for three weeks. It is
before the government for study. I
believe the member would like us to deal with that report in a responsible
way. What the member is doing is picking
certain recommendations in there and saying:
Would you do this now and consider this later? We are going to take a little bit more time
to study this report in detail and come forward with a formal response to that
report.
The member raises issues about the Seven
Oaks Centre, and of course, her critic was the director of that centre during
the early part of the '80s. There were a
number of issues that we could get into about the management and the manner in
which the centre was run at that time, but I think we will not do that, because
I do not think these things should be personalized. I can tell you that changes have taken
place. At the time he was director,
there were 65 to 70 children there. We
have downsized it considerably, and today there are only 24 children there.
This is a centre that is there for use by the agencies when they take children
into care. It is used by the police, and
I would like to go into some more detail on this, and perhaps I can with a
subsequent answer.
Mrs. Carstairs: Mr. Speaker, since 1974 such facilities as
Seven Oaks in the
Child
Advocate
Reporting
Process
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs
(Leader of the Second Opposition): One of
the recommendations in the Suche report is the need for a children's advocate
reporting to the Legislative Assembly.
It was recommended in 1983 by Judge Edward Kimelman. It was recommended again in the AJI. We are now told by this minister that, no, it
is going to report to him, and I would like to know from the minister why.
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer
(Minister of Family Services): Mr.
Speaker, I will respond on the Child Advocate in a moment.
There is also an Ombudsman's report to do
with Seven Oaks, where he has identified certain practices in the medical unit,
certain reporting procedures and other recommendations that he acknowledges in
his report which we are moving on. I do
not want the member or her colleague to feel we have not done anything. There
has been considerable work done as far as Seven Oaks is concerned.
On the Child Advocate, yes, this is one of
the reforms which we announced last June, and I would remind her again that
this government has announced a number of reforms in child welfare.
We are going to bring forward legislation
to create a Child Advocate. We have
looked at the legislation that exists in two other jurisdictions in
We will get a chance to look at this
legislation in the near future, but we have looked particularly at the
Mrs. Carstairs: Mr. Speaker, Ms. Suche in her report says,
and I will quote: Many children
indicated that if their rights were violated by a residential care facility,
they would be reluctant to raise concerns with the same worker who arranged the
placement.
That is exactly why the children who need
the protection the most are telling this minister that they do not want to deal
with ministerial channels. They want to
have an advocate to protect them.
Can the minister please give us one reason
why he is rejecting the Suche report and is asking for the Child Advocate to
report to him when it should report to the Ombudsman?
Mr. Gilleshammer: Mr. Speaker, I would say clearly we are not
rejecting the Suche report. We have the
Suche report before a working group of government. The member is zeroing in on one component of
that report. We will be giving a formal
response to that report in the coming weeks.
A major recommendation is the creation of a Child Advocate. We are proceeding with that.
As the member has pointed out, previous
governments were advised to do that.
Previous governments were asked to create a Child Advocate. It is this government that is acting on it. It is this government that is bringing these
reforms in. I have indicated that we
have looked at that process in other provinces, and are modeling some of our
legislation after what works in those jurisdictions.
The member is reading selectively when she
says that the child who has been abused or misused by a social worker or
somebody in the system‑‑that is not who the Child Advocate is going
to be. The Child Advocate is somebody
who is detached from that. The Child
Advocate is somebody who is going to look after the interests of that child.
I would urge her to read that report‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order, please.
Seniors
Programs
Funding
Mr. Conrad Santos
(Broadway): Mr. Speaker, more likely than not, the
members of this House are familiar with the saying that to those who have more,
more will be given, and to those who have less, even the little they got will
be taken away from them.
Out of a total provincial operating budget
of $5.25 billion, one‑tenth of 1 percent‑‑not 1 percent, one‑tenth
of 1 percent‑‑is allocated to the Seniors Directorate. This is the least of all governmental allocations. Despite that, this provincial budget has cut
almost 13 percent out of the least of the least of all the allocations.
Can the honourable Minister responsible
for Seniors explain to this House and to the seniors of this province why he
allowed his colleague to do this cut to the distress of the senior citizens?
Hon. Gerald Ducharme
(Minister responsible for Seniors): Mr.
Speaker, first of all, I sort of agree with the saying by the honourable
member. However, in this particular
case, the minister approached myself in consultation, and in this particular
sense, the group that he is referring to had a surplus in 1989 of $28,000. At that time, they got a grant from the
55 Plus
Program
Funding
Restoration
Mr. Conrad Santos
(Broadway): Mr. Speaker, this is not the first time that
there has been this subtle assault on the base funding of senior citizens.
Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question to
the honourable Minister responsible for Seniors is, has the honourable minister
taken any step to mitigate this cut by restoring the 55 Plus to its original
status as an indexed social program?
*
(1420)
Hon. Gerald Ducharme
(Minister responsible for Seniors): Mr.
Speaker, there is no indication of 55 Plus being cut at this time in this
budget.
Mr. Speaker, he wants to get into
funding. Continuing Care programs
increased $7 million over '92‑93.
Is that hurting the seniors?
Also, Mr. Speaker, Pharmacare, mentioned
by the member from Flin Flon (Mr. Storie) across the room, personal care homes,
increased in the budget this year by $75 million in the Health budget.
Seniors
Programs
Government
Commitment
Mr. Conrad Santos
(Broadway): Given all these cuts which, to my mind, is
financial abuse of senior citizens' welfare, how does the minister reconcile
this with his so‑called government's commitment to the welfare of seniors
in this province?
Hon. Gerald Ducharme
(Minister responsible for Seniors): I just
explained, in the Pharmacare budget which contains a vast amount of money for
personal care and Pharmacare, in that particular part of the Health budget, he
will see that the increase is $75 million this year. I do not call that abuse‑‑$75
million, Mr. Speaker.
If he wants to go back to the original
concept that we talked about in regard to surpluses, MSOS is getting an
increase in funding from our department‑‑the secretariat, up to
$30,000. That will not be lowered.
Handi-Transit
Cost-Sharing
Agreement
Ms. Jean Friesen
(Wolseley): My question is for the Minister of Urban
Affairs. The demand for Handi‑Transit
in
My question for the minister is: Could the minister indicate whether he
disagrees with the city's position on expanding access to legally blind people
or whether it is simply part of the larger Tory strategy to send the bills to
the middle‑income homeowners of
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member's first part of the
question is out of order; the honourable minister, with the second part of the
question.
Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister
of Urban Affairs): Mr. Speaker, the question of Handi‑Transit,
the question of all transit in the city of
We provide a certain amount of money,
fixed grants and some cost‑shared grants over a wide variety of
departments. If they wish to expand
their services in any area that they have jurisdiction, they are more than
welcome to do so.
Ms. Friesen: The supplemental question is: Has the minister sought advice on the
implications of his refusal to continue to cost‑share this program for
challenges under the Canadian Charter of Rights and the Manitoba Human Rights
Commission?
Mr. Ernst: Mr. Speaker, we provide 50 percent cost‑sharing
on the deficit of the transit system in the City of