LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Friday, March 20, 1992

 

The House met at 10 a.m.

 

PRAYERS

 

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

 

PRESENTING PETITIONS

 

Ms. Judy Wasylycia‑Leis (St. Johns):  Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Janelle Wright, Mark Matsubara, Kim Thiessen and others requesting the government show a strong commitment to dealing with child abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign.

       

TABLING OF REPORTS

       

Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Finance):  Mr. Speaker, I would just like to table the Quarterly Report of the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission, Nine Months, April to December 31, 1961; and

      Also, in accordance with the provisions of Rule 65(6.1): Sequence for the consideration of Estimates of the various government departments.

 

Introduction of Guests

       

Mr. Speaker:  Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery, where we have with us this morning, from the Ste. Anne School, fifty Grades 5 and 6 students.  They are under the direction of Margaret Wyllie.  This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson).

      On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here this morning.

     

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

 

Economic Growth

All-Party Task Force

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, over the last eight days, we have had an excellent debate in this Chamber with the 56 members participating on a debate on the budget and the economy in the province of Manitoba.  We have heard some excellent speeches from all parties, I believe.  There have been obvious disagreements on philosophical approaches to the economy, but there have been some excellent ideas and a strong consensus in the strengths of Manitobans in terms of our future.

      There has also been a strong consensus in the speeches across all parties, Mr. Speaker, on the crisis Manitoba and Canadians are facing in our recession, the worst recession we believe since the Great Depression.  In fact, many members were calling this situation very, very serious indeed.  We have been calling on the government for a period of time to call together an all‑party committee to deal with our economic crisis.

      In fact, even two days ago in this Chamber, the member for Rossmere (Mr. Neufeld), a former member of the Treasury Board, said and I quote:  "We have to start putting party politics to the side and start contributing in a much more positive, unpolitical, apolitical fashion in terms of how we get Manitoba out of this rut."  It was an excellent speech.  I did not agree with many things, but I do agree with some things in his speech, Mr. Speaker, but there have been many speeches in this Chamber and many good ideas.

      I would ask the Premier today whether he will now agree to have an all‑party task force to deal with the economic crisis Manitoba is facing so we can all work together in an unpolitical way.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  I am delighted to hear the helpful attitude from the prince of darkness opposite, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  I would remind the honourable First Minister that we refer to all honourable members as honourable members.

Mr. Filmon:  Well, Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, this is the ultimate all‑party committee.  We come here every day hoping to hear positive contributions.  I am going to speak a little bit about that in my contribution to the budget speech later this morning.

      I am going to compare the attitude of the Leader of the Opposition and his desire, his intense desire to paint everything as black as possible, to put the worst possible cast on everything that is going on day after day versus some of the positive contributions of members of the Liberal Party.  We will compare the attitude and the approach.  We will see whether there is any real sincerity behind the comments that are made this morning and the last day of debate after he has had an opportunity to make some positive contributions and failed miserably, but in a death‑bed conversion, comes this morning on the last day of debate on the budget with some sort of new attitude.

      We will talk about that a little later, but I say to him, this is his opportunity every day.  Make your positive suggestions.  Make your positive contributions.  We will welcome them and we will embrace them.

* (1005)

Mr. Doer:  I would note that we have been proposing this idea for month after month after month as the economy slips down and down and down, Mr. Speaker.  Even members of his own bench are talking about the economic crisis we are in.

      I would ask the Premier in light of the fact that many of the examples he uses in his own budget are from previous governments, in terms of Unisys and other ideas‑‑and there is nothing wrong with putting those in his own budget‑‑in light of the fact that the government has rightfully, I believe, created a task force to deal with the Constitution on two separate occasions, an all‑party task force to work together, I would ask the Premier: Why is it more important, why is it a higher priority to create an all‑party task force to deal with the Constitution and not have an all‑party task force to deal with the economic challenges we have in this province?

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, because in the conventional way there is no all‑party mechanism on the Constitution normally, but in this House we have an all‑party meeting daily.  On the Estimates everyday, we meet in party together in this Assembly.  Every new session, we have eight days on the budget speech in which all members of this Legislature can make their positive contributions.  Throughout the course of any session, we have 240 hours talking about the priorities and the essential elements of government in this province.  We are the only province in this country that spends that amount of time that allows the opposition to make positive contributions.

      We wait for those positive contributions.  We wait for anything other than negative gloom, doom, negative, negative, negative.  That is all we get from the New Democratic Party. That is the all‑party contribution we get from New Democrats, and we await their positive contribution everyday that we come here.

Mr. Doer:  Mr. Speaker, we have suggested for months that we create an all‑party committee dealing with the economy.  We have suggested for years that the government have an economic summit with business, labour and government.  All these ideas are rejected by the Premier (Mr. Filmon).  The Premier likes to pretend that everything is okay; he likes to pretend that everything is fine in this province.

      The member for Rossmere (Mr. Neufeld) also said that we must work together, we should work together in this deteriorating economy.  It is very serious, and all members in this Chamber, notwithstanding our rhetoric, acknowledge the fact that there is a very serious situation in this province.  I again offer to the Premier an opportunity beyond just the question‑and‑answer period which he knows is an adversarial forum.

      I would ask the Premier:  Why is he afraid to have an all‑party committee when his own budget had many economic examples which had come out of many previous governments as examples of excellence in our economy?  Unisys and other projects were examples of excellence for Manitoba on the international stage and came from many members from different parties.  Why does he not want to have to put all of those ideas together in an all‑party forum, the same way as we deal with the Constitution?

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is that this government has been very open in ensuring that all elements of the community were represented in some of the major economic initiatives, ones that the members opposite are criticizing.

      The Economic Innovation and Technology Council, a bill which is before this Assembly, has representatives from organized labour as part of that whole solution, has representatives from all elements of the community, from the rural community, from the farm community, from small business, from high technology, from resource extraction areas, from processing, manufacturing, all of those areas included in that.  The round table has representation from labour, from environmental groups, from resource groups, from so many groups.

An Honourable Member:  Save it for your speech.

Mr. Filmon:  There you are, you see.  They ask a question and then they become insulting when an answer is given.  The fact of the matter is that this partisan group‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

 

Point of Order

       

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader):  Mr. Speaker, on a point of order.  The rules are very clear that answers should relate to matters raised.  I know the Premier (Mr. Filmon) is anxious to get into his speech later on the budget, but he was asked a very specific question about our proposal for an all‑party committee.  I would ask that you remind him of that and ask him to bring his comments to order.

Mr. Speaker:  On the point of order raised, I remind the honourable First Minister to deal with the question raised.

* * *

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is that I have responded and members opposite refuse to hear.

* (1010)

      We have an all‑party committee that sits every day in this Chamber, 57 members from three different parties that devote 240 hours to the debate of the priorities of this government, economic and every other priority, that sits every year and debates for eight straight days the budget of this government, all of the economic priorities, an opportunity for positive contribution by all members opposite.

      We have not seen any positive contribution.  We have seen negativism; we have seen doom and gloom, and that is all we get from members opposite.  If they cannot contribute any more than that, Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, their words are empty.

 

Health Care System

Bed Closures

 

Ms. Judy Wasylycia‑Leis (St. Johns):  I have some questions relating to growing concerns about our health care system, and I wish, as the Premier (Mr. Filmon) suggested, we could get all those concerns down to a 10‑second clip.

      Patients are worried; hospital workers are anxious; and now the doctors of Manitoba have expressed alarm and concern about this government's plans for reducing hospital beds and hospital budgets.

      The Manitoba Medical Association has documented 6,000 to 7,000 Manitobans waiting for surgery, eye surgery, cardiovascular surgery, orthopedic surgery, and in a letter sent yesterday to the Minister of Health, the Manitoba Medical Association has also indicated that patients are forced to wait months for CAT scans, MRIs and ultrasound diagnostic imaging.

      I want to ask the minister in the interests of uncertainty among patients and alarm being expressed by the doctors:  Will the minister finally inform this House and all Manitobans about the total number of beds being cut, the jobs being lost, services being reduced as a result of this government's‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The question has been put.

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, of course, I cannot give my honourable friend that answer because that is a process that the Urban Hospital Council, other informed groups, are participating in to change fundamentally our health care system.  But one thing I can guarantee my honourable friend, it will not be 2,000 to 3,000 beds, as it is in Ontario, without consultation, without discussion.  It will not be 3‑4‑5‑6‑7‑8‑9‑10,000 layoffs, as it is in Ontario, because our process is much focused on the patient and where the patient receives care.

      Mr. Speaker, I recognize that we are going to have individual groups, including the MMA, the union representing the doctors, offering advice and critique of how we approach, but I simply want to remind my honourable friend that the recent spate of letters from that source on waiting lists is at the same time before the arbitration board, where their demands are beyond belief, and maybe there is an attachment.

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis:  I would like to table this letter from the MMA, since they have asked to be consulted by this government, and this minister has refused to listen, to consult‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Question, please.

 

Health Sciences Centre

Operating Budget

Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (St. Johns):  How much, Mr. Speaker, is the Health Sciences Centre‑‑which has just spent two days trying to address the uncertainty and cutback directives from this government without thorough briefing material and consultation by this government and this minister‑‑receiving from this government?  Is it 5 percent, or is it less?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, the overall increase to health care is 5.7 percent.  The increase is $101 million year over year; $53 million of that is an increase to the hospitals alone.  Of that $53 million, there will be increases approximating 4 percent to 5 percent at each of our hospitals in addition to the access those hospitals have to other innovative funds to allow them to reshape their programs internally.

      Mr. Speaker, I simply want to remind my honourable friend the New Democratic Party Health critic that in Manitoba there is probably closer to 5 percent than 4 percent increase in funding to hospitals.  That is what a Conservative government delivers when in office.  When in opposition, New Democrats demand more; but when in government, as in Ontario, they give a 1 percent increase.  Our process in Manitoba is much more informed, much better funded than the other adjacent systems which happen to be governed by New Democrats who, from the comfort of opposition, cry for more money, but from the reality of government, demand more‑‑

* (1015)

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis:  Mr. Speaker, I am asking a straightforward question.  I think we deserve clear answers to‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Question, please.

Ms. Wasylycia‑Leis:  Specifically, how much, what percentage increase in their budget is the Health Sciences Centre receiving from this government?  How many beds are they being asked to cut?  How many jobs will be lost at our largest hospital in the province of Manitoba?

Mr. Orchard:  Mr. Speaker, government is not asking the Health Sciences Centre to respond to any of those specific questions. The government is asking the Health Sciences Centre, as we have asked every hospital, to adhere to the policy put in place in 1987 by the New Democrats, this Health critic around cabinet, which said when they cut 119 beds unilaterally out of the system, I might remind you, that they shall operate within budget, that they shall not have a deficit.

      Each year hospitals ask for an increase.  Each year government provides them with an increase.  The Health Sciences Centre will receive the lion's share of the $53‑million increase to hospitals.  It is less than what they have asked for and that is why the Health Sciences Centre, as they have done every year, will determine what they do to operate within that NDP policy of no deficit with a funding of approximately $270 million.

 

Point of Order

       

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader):  Mr. Speaker, it seems that Fridays are becoming something of a tradition in this Chamber, and certain members of government become particularly sensitive on Fridays.  I just heard the Minister of Health call the member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans), across the floor, a coward, which is unparliamentary, Mr. Speaker.

      Beyond that, I am wondering if we might ask that we have some order in the House and we not stoop to that kind of personal insult, Mr. Speaker, that we just heard from the Minister of Health.

Mr. Orchard:  Mr. Speaker, I apologize to the member for Brandon.

Mr. Speaker:  I would like to thank the honourable Minister of Health.

Mr. Orchard:   . . . in referring to his absence of public presence in 1987‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

 

Point of Order

       

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):  On a point of order, the minister is making allegations that are totally without foundation in fact.  He has no information.  I asked him‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

      On the first point of order raised, the honourable Minister of Health has withdrawn those remarks.

Mr. Orchard:  Mr. Speaker, to the same point of order brought forward by my honourable friend, the senior cabinet minister in 1987, when 29 beds were unilaterally cut from the Brandon General Hospital without‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  On that, there was no point of order.

 

Point of Order

       

Mr. Ashton:  Yes, Mr. Speaker, the word "cowardly" does appear on our list in Beauchesne as having caused intervention in the past.  If the minister was going to withdraw that comment, it should be an unconditional withdrawal, as has been demanded of other members; in fact, as the member for Flin Flon (Mr. Storie) withdrew last week.  I would like to ask you, Mr. Speaker, to rule on whether in fact the minister has withdrawn that, so we can get back to the proper business of this House, not cheap personal insults.

       Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  On that point of order raised, I had already ruled that the honourable Minister of Health had withdrawn that remark.  On that point of order, I had ruled that that point of order had been looked after.

      On the second point of order, I had ruled that the honourable member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans) did not have a point of order.

      Now, on with Question Period.

* (1020)

     

RCMP Uniform

Government Position

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, when I got to my office this morning, I received an electronic message from the Premier, for which I thank him.  In that, he said:  "I invite you to join us in observing this significant day," and he was referring to the celebration of the International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination tomorrow, "which serves to rekindle an awareness of our rights and responsibilities as members of society."

      I am pleased to see the members of the government are wearing pins, as are most members on the other side as well.

      My question is to the Premier.  Both the Premier and the Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae) are on the record, not in this House but at public meetings and in public statements, as stating that the wearing of turbans in the RCMP is a mark of respect for the religious observances of the Sikhs.

      Can the Premier tell this House how he reconciles that belief with that of one of his backbenchers, the member for Rossmere (Mr. Neufeld), who stated in this House on Tuesday, March 17, that such a position compromised the RCMP for the sake of a few votes?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, above all, under the freedom of speech in this country that is awarded to each of us by virtue of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, we are entitled to our own opinions and our own views.

      If the member has a desire to take issue with the individual opinions of any member of this Chamber on either side, she is entitled to do that.  I am responsible for my opinion.  My government sets its policy, and we abide by those things.  It is very simple.

Mrs. Carstairs:  I thank the Premier for that statement.

     

Charter of Rights and Freedoms

Government Support

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  The Premier is entering very delicate negotiations which will indeed impact on the definition of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms which guarantees the right to practise your religious faith and was the basis for the decision by the RCMP to change their uniforms.

      What assurance do we have from the Premier that he will engage in a defence of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms as per the Manitoba task force report and that such defence will have the entire support of the government?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, I would say to this that the member knows that I am on the record and always have been on the record saying that we support and defend totally the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.  Absolutely no question about it.  That is the position of this First Minister; that is the position of this government.  It has never varied, and it will not vary in any negotiations, discussions that we have on the Constitution or anything else.

      That is the assurance that I give her, and that is the assurance that she can see by virtue of the actions of this government and this First Minister.

Mrs. Carstairs:  Mr. Speaker, my final question to the First Minister:  Can the First Minister tell this House that if the member for The Maples (Mr. Cheema) should choose to wear a turban on the celebration of a religious holiday or, for that matter, for any day in this House, such an action would not meet with disapproval with members of his back bench?

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, the matter is a totally hypothetical question, and I would assume that that matter is not in order in this Chamber.

 

Judicial System

Circuit Court

 

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon):  Mr. Speaker, the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry report that this government has been in possession of now for many months says that the situation involving aboriginal people in the justice system has deteriorated rather than improved in the recent past.  It goes on to say that the delivery of justice to aboriginal people in aboriginal communities through the provincial circuit court system is inequitable and inadequate.  It is a system characterized by delay in an era of colonialism.

      One could only categorize the Minister of Justice's (Mr. McCrae) response to my colleague the member for Rupertsland (Mr. Harper) as paternalistic, as condescending, yesterday, when the member for Rupertsland asked the minister to categorically deny that this government had any intention of creating a two‑tiered system which would relegate northern Manitobans to second‑class status when it comes to delivery of justice.

      Will the minister stand up in this House today and categorically deny that that is the government's intention?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Yes, indeed, Mr. Speaker.

* (1025)

Mr. Storie:  Mr. Speaker, in October and again in February, I wrote to the Minister of Justice.  Can the Minister of Justice explain why the circuit court system was suspended for four months to the communities of Leaf Rapids and Lynn Lake where they served many on the justice committee?  Can he explain why a young woman, 12 years old, who was sexually assaulted has had to wait more than six months to have a matter dealt with in court, why this girl was called to court and the matter not deal with‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The question has been put.

Mr. McCrae:  Mr. Speaker, in his first question, the honourable member referred to aspects of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry which identified shortcomings in the justice system in remote areas of Manitoba.  My response I hope acknowledges that this government recognizes that, too.

      I am hopeful to be bringing forward soon major improvements to the justice system in remote areas as well as in other areas of Manitoba.  I am going to ask the honourable member, his Leader (Mr. Doer), the member for Rupertsland (Mr. Harper), and the member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) to use their considerable powers of persuasion to persuade the leadership of the aboriginal people in Manitoba to work with this government in bringing these things to fruition.

Mr. Storie:  Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Justice explain why a court party attending in Lynn Lake arrives at 10 in the morning, departs at four in the afternoon, attempts to deal with 70 cases in that time period, including sexual assault, leaving witnesses stranded, victims unsatisfied?  Can the minister explain how he is going to do that by creating a two‑tiered system?

Mr. McCrae:  The type of system that will be created has not been finally determined, because we have not had the opportunity to include in discussions about that the leadership of the aboriginal community.

      There have been improvements made in the justice system thus far since this government came to office.  I remind the honourable member that out of the many, many years that he and his colleagues were in office in this province, it was during those years, to a large extent, some of these difficulties arose.  This government does not want to be part of the problem as the previous government was.  This government wants to make improvements.  We desperately want to make improvements to the justice system where improvements are required.  We acknowledge that.

      The honourable member is attempting, I assume, to be helpful here.  He can be helpful by attempting to persuade aboriginal leadership to join us in solving these problems.

 

Independent Schools

Funding Formula

 

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):  Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Education.

      Yesterday, the minister said I would be interested in funding for the independent school in my constituency.  I am interested in funding for all schools in all constituencies, even St. John's‑Ravenscourt located in the minister's constituency that is going to get 9 percent this year while public schools are laying off teachers in her constituency.

      Mr. Speaker, will the minister not reconsider her position, given its inherent unfairness?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, this government is interested in quality education for all students in Manitoba.  Some families choose, as is their right and for their own reasons, to have their children educated in independent schools.  I have not yet contacted the independent schools with their funding this year, as the member seems to think that I have.

Mr. Chomiak:  Mr. Speaker, can the minister indicate whether she will be breaking the agreement signed by this government with the independent schools with respect to the increase that is automatically going to be given and that the independent schools' chairperson agrees is going to be 9 percent this year?

Mrs. Vodrey:  Mr. Speaker, the agreement which the member refers to, which yesterday he claimed was confidential, in fact has never been a confidential agreement and has been spoken about in the time since it was signed, but that letter of agreement is in fact an agreement between this government and the Manitoba Federation of Independent Schools.

      Now, the effect of breaking that agreement would be very serious to the taxpayers of this province because it is a phased‑in funding amount, and it is only funding relating to operating costs.

Mr. Chomiak:  My final supplementary to the same minister:  Will the minister consider in her talks with the private schools that she says she is going to have, that she tells them about the financial situation of the government and that they consider taking the same increase in funding that the public school system has been forced to take this year by this government?

* (1030)

Mrs. Vodrey:  Mr. Speaker, I have met with the independent schools, as I have met with school divisions across this province, in the range of almost 20 school divisions, to examine their particular issues as it relates to our new funding formula, but in our opinion, this is an agreement.

 

Health Care System

Bed Closures

 

Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The Maples):  Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

      Recent news stories on the proposed closure and realignment of hospital beds in Winnipeg and the Health minister's refusal to give any specific answer, Mr. Speaker, is causing a high level of anxiety among patients and health‑care providers.

      Can the minister today at least give us a time frame when he will make the announcement about these proposed bed closures?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, what we have this year is no different than any other year where budget requests are made of the hospitals and government through the process of deciding where our priorities are in spending, makes decisions on the funding increase to respective departments. This year, the government again decided to provide health care in hospitals, in particular, with a much more significant increase than other departments of government.

      We did that because (a) we did not raise taxes for the fifth budget in a row; (b) we do not believe, as others believe and other political philosophies particularly the New Democrats', that you can pave your way to future prosperity by borrowing against tomorrow.

      Mr. Speaker, what is going on this year is an exercise that with an approximate 5 percent increase to hospitals, how they will arrange their programming.  Some of the programming will not be in the hospital environment as happened in Brandon where services in the community have replaced services in the hospital.

      I suspect that as hospitals deal with their budgets, liaise with an increased home‑care budget to provide more community services, an increased personal care home budget to provide more long‑term care, that there will be changes in the hospital program.  The patient will be provided with budget for care in the most appropriate location, and that is the exercise hospitals right now are going through‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

 

Community-Based Health Care

Government Initiatives

 

Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The Maples):  Can the minister tell us what other alternative methods of community care are being considered other than the home care services, because as the news media is telling us, 300 beds are going to be closed?  Patients want to know how they are going to be served in the long run.  It is a major issue, Mr. Speaker.  We are asking for simple information.

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  With all due respect, the media is speculating on rumours brought to this House by honourable members in the opposition.

      Mr. Speaker, as I explained in Brandon, they made a decision and they closed a number of beds, but that bed closure followed two and a half years of increased funding by this government to support outpatient surgery.  There were fewer admissions to the acute care beds for surgical procedures.  The beds were not filled.  The community of Brandon received more than double the home care budget.  It provided services in the community and not in the hospital, so the management closed empty beds.  Does that not make management sense in providing the most appropriate and the greatest volume of care to Manitobans in the appropriate environment with a responsible eye on the taxpayers' dollars? Yes, it does, Sir.

 

Health Care System

Labour Adjustment Strategy

 

Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The Maples):  Mr. Speaker, we were simply asking for information.  Can the minister tell us in view of all these reports and the health care reform, what kind of planning does he have for the health care workers who are going to be displaced by some of the major changes?  What kind of labour planning does he have to retrain them so that they can work in the community level?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, let me deal with that issue exactly as it is being dealt with in Brandon, because had my honourable friend asked the question six months ago, how many beds are going to close in Brandon, I could not have answered that.  The management, the executive and the board of Brandon General Hospital had not made those kinds of program decisions.

      What I can tell my honourable friend is that in the circumstance of Brandon, redeployment opportunities are there, retraining opportunities are there.  They have increased the number of spaces in their nursing school for LPNs who may be displaced and wish to go on to receive R.N. education.  There are increasing job opportunities in the community, because we have more than doubled the budget in continuing care in the city of Brandon.  That is salary‑based to individuals.  There is more than double the number of people working in the community.  Those are the job opportunity replacements from institution to community exactly as informed health‑care decision‑makers across the length and breadth of North America are making, Sir.

 

GRIP Program

Notification Deadline

 

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin):  Mr. Speaker, clearly this Minister of Agriculture has missed the deadline for informing farmers of changes to GRIP.  Clause 37 is explicit, and I quote:  Changes must be mailed to the farmers by March 15 prior to the contract year for which the changes are first to come into effect.

      This violation or this breaking of the contract by the Minister of Agriculture, breaking of an agreement, is a fundamental breach, Mr. Speaker, of the contract by government, and therefore removes any obligation on the part of the farmer to remain in the program if coverage levels or premium levels are altered in a detrimental way to the farmers.

      Can this Minister of Agriculture explain to this House on what legal basis he and his spokespersons in Crop Insurance are going around saying that the government has no obligation to announce changes by March 15 even though it is in the contract?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture):  Mr. Speaker, I want to inform the member that the Crop Insurance Corporation, on March 12 of 1992, sent to farmers amendments to the contract for revenue insurance.  That is prior to March 15.

 

Legal Opinion Request

 

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin):  Mr. Speaker, this has not been sent to the farmers by March 15.

      Will the minister table a legal opinion, instead of trying to alter history here today because his spokespersons have said the opposite, that either confirms his statements or rejects them? Do we have a fundamental breach or do we not?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture):  Mr. Speaker, this program has undergone a fair level of evolution.  As I told the member a few days ago, particularly Saskatchewan held up the process because they wanted to make some major changes that took away a lot of the support that the farmers in Saskatchewan used to have in this program.

      I can tell the member that neither Saskatchewan nor Alberta sent any amendments to their producers.  Manitoba Crop Insurance did.  Whether it is legal or illegal in terms of his interpretation remains to be seen.  The information the farmers need in terms of premiums and support levels for 1992 will be out shortly.

      Mr. Speaker, I want to remind you that amendments were mailed to the producers in a letter of March 12, 1992.

 

Premium Levels

 

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin):  Mr. Speaker, revision is history from this minister.

      Will this minister now announce today, to remove the uncertainty, that there will be no reduction in coverage levels and no increase in premiums for the coming year, or does he believe that contracts are only for farmers and not for arrogant governments?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture):  Mr. Speaker, the attempt in Manitoba is to maintain the highest level of coverage we can in terms of negotiating with the other partners in this agreement.

      As I told the member the other day, Manitoba has been on record for some time as maintaining a position of having the highest level of protection for farmers.  His counterpart in Saskatchewan has already said that premiums will increase in Saskatchewan to the producers.  He also acknowledges that in Saskatchewan the program will not be effective if they have a poor crop this year.

      Mr. Speaker, that is the condition under which farmers need protection, if they have a poor crop.  I can guarantee him that Manitoba farmers will have a level of support that is far superior to Saskatchewan, particularly in the instance where they need it the most, if there is a crop failure in 1992.

 

Highway Maintenance

Responsibility

       

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Rural Development.

      Last year we saw devastating cuts to the Highways budget, cuts of $9 million.  The bridge program was cut, a tremendous offloading onto municipalities.

      How can the minister support an additional cut this year of a million dollars to the highways maintenance which will impact again on municipalities, and they are going to have to pick up extra costs‑‑more offloading onto municipalities?

* (1040)

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Mr. Speaker, I was not quite sure whether I caught the total question.  I want to indicate that if the member wants to take the time to look at what happened in my budget for this year, I think the rural people are going to be well served.

      The bridge program has been returned.  There has been an increase in the grant‑in‑aid programs that I have with the local municipalities.  My capital program is $103 million for this year.  I do not know where she gets the idea that there is further offloading, Mr. Speaker.  We are trying to recover from that.

 

Regional Development Corporations

Funding

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  I would like to ask the Minister of Rural Development again:  In light of the fact that tourism is in such a devastated state in Manitoba and this is an industry that can grow, can the minister assure the people in the Regional Development Corporation that they will not have the same cuts that they had last year in Regional Development Corporation funding?  Perhaps he will even look at special funding for these corporations that will attract more tourism to rural Manitoba‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member has put her question.

Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development):  Mr. Speaker, I guess I am happy to say that over the last year, there have been several initiatives introduced by this government to indeed help rural communities to not only survive, but to revitalize rural communities.

      Mr. Speaker, I point to a program like the rural Grow Bonds Program, which has been introduced some months ago, has been taken up by many communities.  In addressing some of the municipal functions and attending some of the local meetings in rural communities, I have to tell you that Manitobans are very excited about the rural Grow Bonds Program and the fact that it could be a very key instrument in revitalizing our rural economy.

      In the next short while, we will be announcing other programs which will generate other forms of assistance to rural communities to help them grow and prosper in this province.

Mrs. Wowchuk:  Mr. Speaker, I wish the people in rural Grow Bonds every bit of success.

Mr. Speaker:  Question, please.

 

Rural Development

Government Initiatives

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  I want to ask the same minister:  How can he support a budget that allows $2 million for economic growth in rural Manitoba when there are cuts of similar amounts in Highways and other things?  There are going to be jobs taken away in rural Manitoba, in Highways and Natural Resources, in Housing.  There are going to be cuts in jobs.  How can he say that he has put enough support into rural Manitoba?

Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development):  Mr. Speaker, I have to tell you that Manitobans, and especially rural Manitobans, are getting somewhat tired of the gloom‑and‑doom philosophy of the NDP.

      Mr. Speaker, when we talk about programs like the Grow Bonds Program, the program that is going to be announced with regard to revenues from Video Lottery Terminals, when we look at what we have done for the rural economy in terms of the support we have given through the GRIP program, Manitobans indeed are looking positively toward renewed growth in our rural economy.  The negativism that we are hearing from the other side is just not accepted in rural Manitoba by many of our people.

Mr. Speaker:  Time for Oral Questions has expired.

 

Nonpolitical Statements

 

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster):  Yes, Mr. Speaker, I ask leave to make a nonpolitical statement.

Mr. Speaker:  Does the honourable member for Inkster have leave to make a nonpolitical statement?