LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Friday, April 10, 1992

 

The House met at 10 a.m.

 

PRAYERS

 

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

 

PRESENTING PETITIONS

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of J. Gordon Sr., Terry Vopni, Ben Betcher and others requesting the Minister of Housing (Mr. Ernst) consider reinstating local housing authorities with volunteer boards.

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows):  Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Robert Santos, Jason Howell, Tara Provo and others requesting the government show its strong commitment to dealing with child abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse Campaign.

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley):  Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Christine Mazur, Shirley Brewer, Melvin Rempel and others requesting the government consider restoring the former full funding of $700,000 to fight Dutch elm disease.

     

READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS

       

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member for Broadway (Mr. Santos), and it complies with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

      The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth:

      THAT child abuse is a crime abhorred by all good citizens of our society, but nonetheless it exists in today's world; and

      It is the responsibility of the government to recognize and deal with this most vicious of crimes; and

      Programs like the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign raise public awareness and necessary funds to deal with crime; and

      The decision to terminate the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign will hamper the efforts of all good citizens to help abused children.

      WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislature of the Province of Manitoba may be pleased to request that the government of Manitoba show a strong commitment to deal with Child Abuse by considering restoring the Fight Back Against Child Abuse campaign.

* * *

      I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member for St. Johns (Ms. Wasylycia‑Leis), and it complies with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

      The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth:

      THAT the bail review provisions in the Criminal Code of Canada currently set out that accused offenders, including those suspected of conjugal or family violence, be released unless it can be proven that the individual is a danger to society at large or it is likely that the accused person will not reappear in court; and

      The problem of conjugal and family violence is a matter of grave concern for all Canadians and requires a multifaceted approach to ensure that those at risk, particularly women and children, be protected from further harm.

      WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislature of the Province of Manitoba may be pleased to request that the Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae) call upon the Parliament of Canada to amend the Criminal Code of Canada to permit the courts to prevent the release of individuals where it is shown that there is a substantial likelihood of further conjugal or family violence being perpetrated.

       

TABLING OF REPORTS

       

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to table the Annual Report of the Universities Grants Commission, 1990‑91.

* (1005)

 

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

 

Bill 75‑The Health Services Insurance Amendment

and Consequential Amendments Act

 

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, I would move, seconded by the Minister of Highways and Transportation (Mr. Driedger), that Bill 75, The Health Services Insurance Amendment and Consequential Amendments Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur l'assurance‑maladie et apportant des modifications correlatives a d'autres lois, be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.

      His Honour the Lieutenant‑Governor, having been advised of the contents of this bill, recommends it to the House, and I would like to table the message, Sir.

Motion agreed to.

 

Bill 73‑The Health Care Directives and Consequential Amendments Act

 

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), that Bill 73, The Health Care Directives and Consequential Amendments Act (Loi sur les directives en matiere de soins de sante et apportant des modifications correlatives a d'autres lois), be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.

Motion agreed to.

 

Bill 74‑The Law Society Amendment Act

 

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), that Bill 74, The Law Society Amendment Act (Loi modifiant la Loi sur la Societe du Barreau), be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.

Motion agreed to.

 

Introduction of Guests

     

Mr. Speaker:  Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery, where we have with us this morning from the Queen Elizabeth School twenty‑six Grades 8 and 9 students, and they are under the direction of Lorraine Arbez. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for St. Boniface (Mr. Gaudry).

      On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here this morning.

 

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

 

Economic Growth

Employment Creation Strategy

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, the last couple of days, we have had some bad news in terms of the forecasts declining for Manitoba's growth rate in 1992. Unfortunately, today we have some more very, very negative news for the people of Manitoba and the province.  We were a little bit teased last month because there were some positive changes in the unemployment statistics in terms of the unemployed going down from 55,000 to 52,000, although we were very, very saddened by the increase of the 8,000 people who had dropped out of the labour market.

      Today, we have a situation where we have the highest number of unemployed people in the history of this province since the Great Depression of the 1930s; 59,000 people, Mr. Speaker, are out of work, unfortunately.

      When you combine that with the 6,000 people who have literally given up and dropped out of our labour force from a year ago, we have some very, very serious challenges in terms of our economy.  Winnipeg now has the second highest unemployment rate in Canada of all major cities‑‑nine out of 11 rather, and has the highest unemployment rate right now in western Canada.

      My question is to the Premier.  What corrective action is his government going to take and what adjustments is his government going to make to deal with the 59,000 people who are unemployed, to deal with the thousands now who have given up looking for work and to deal with the thousands more who are going on social assistance?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, the prince of darkness is at it again.  He has great glee in trying to paint everything as black as he possibly can.  It does not help of course to make comparisons, to say that the unemployment rate in Manitoba was higher under the Howard Pawley NDP government of which the Leader‑‑[interjection! Yes, it was.  It was 10.8 percent in November of 1982.

An Honourable Member:  It is 11.2 now.

Mr. Filmon:  No, we are talking Manitoba, not Winnipeg.  It was higher in Manitoba, 10.8 percent, under Howard Pawley‑‑[interjection!

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

Mr. Filmon:  On a seasonally adjusted basis, it was 10.8 percent versus 9.9 percent today.

      The fact of the matter is, that does not help those who are unemployed.  The only thing that will help people who are unemployed is for us to have in place economic policies that will correct and improve the situation.

      Mr. Speaker, all you have to do is look at the forecasts of the Royal Bank and see that they are projecting for us, in 1993, to have the second highest growth rate in the country, and to see for us, in 1992, to have the fourth highest growth rate in the country.

      Now, the reality is, Mr. Speaker, that none of us want to see the economic circumstances that we face, but the entire country is facing exactly those same circumstances.  Ontario has record unemployment, 609,000 people unemployed in Ontario.  That is 50,000 higher than it was in the worst time previously.

      The fact of the matter is, the country as a whole is in recession.  The world is in recession.  North America is in recession.  All of these things are not good, but when we look comparatively:  a) we have the third best unemployment rate in the country; and b) the projections from the Royal Bank are that we will continue to be in the top half of provinces, fourth best this year in growth rate, second best next year in growth rate.

      Those are the kinds of things that indicate that the policies we are pursuing and the economic framework that we have set forward are the way to go.  Obviously, that is what the economic forecasters are saying.

* (1010)

Mr. Doer:  Mr. Speaker, not one specific adjustment from the government to deal with the 59,000 people unemployed, the highest number since we have been maintaining statistics in this province, not one specific idea or action that the government will take to deal with the lowering of our growth rate, not any adjustments at all except the same old drift from the Conservative Party in terms of the economy.

      I have Hansard from 1990, 1991, from a couple of months ago talking about happy days are here again, just wait till next year.  They sound like the B.C. Lions, just wait till next year, Mr. Speaker, everything is going to come out rosy, yet every month we see a deteriorating situation in the economy.

      I would ask the Premier, what specific action is he and his Economic Committee of Cabinet‑‑he chairs a committee now that is funded to some $900,000 of taxpayers' money that is going to develop an economic strategy for Manitoba.  Well, we have seen the results of that strategy, that million dollar committee that he chairs, to be dismal, Mr. Speaker.

      He supported the Free Trade Agreement with the United States.  He supported Brian Mulroney's economic strategy.  It is resulting in disaster in Canada, but more importantly, the unemployment rate in Manitoba went up higher than the rest of country.  The labour force went down in Manitoba.  The people who are giving up are greater in Manitoba than in the rest of the country where the labour force has gone up.

      What specific action is he going to take as Premier of Manitoba to get people working again and to give people some hope to stay in this province?

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, I can tell the Leader of the Opposition that we will not accept his NDP recipe for renewal which is referred to in the Royal Bank report that says that in Ontario, because of the huge deficits, debts and the higher taxes, they are in fact destroying the opportunity for recovery not only in Ontario, but elsewhere in the country because of the tremendous effect that this has right across the country.

      They talk in fact about both NDP governments in Saskatchewan and Ontario, with their intention to raise taxes which is the NDP solution 10 times out of 10, being negative to opportunities for economic recovery in those particular provinces.  Time and time again, the answer that is supplied by New Democrats is raise the taxes and raise the deficit.

      We will not do that, Mr. Speaker.  We will continue our policy of keeping taxes down, as we have for five straight budgets, to ensure that those people who want to invest in this province know that this investment is not going to be eroded by way of increased taxes.

      We will ensure that the elderly in this province know that their incomes will not be eroded by higher taxes, as they are every time a New Democratic government comes into power.

      We will ensure that young people in this province who are saving for their first home will not have their savings eroded by higher taxes, as is the recipe by every NDP government that has ever been in this province and that has ever been in this country.

      No, Mr. Speaker, we will not raise taxes, and we will not destroy the opportunity for economic recovery that is being pointed to by the Royal Bank and other economic forecasters, thanks to our ability to keep the taxes down and keep the deficit down.

Mr. Doer:  Mr. Speaker, I refer the Premier to the independent audited statements of Manitoba that show a $55‑million surplus in the '88‑89 fiscal year and will show a $530‑million deficit in terms of this year, when we see the audited statements, not the rhetoric in this House from the Premier.

      The Premier wants to talk about youth unemployment.  If the Premier is doing such a great job of keeping people working and keeping youth in Manitoba, why are we suffering the greatest out‑migration of any province on a per capita basis in Canada in the last quarter, and why, in the unemployment statistics today‑‑[interjection! Oh, that is good news, is it?  Why, in these unemployment statistics, has the youth unemployment gone up since February to March from 19.3 percent for men to 22.3 percent, and for women 13.4 percent to 14.7 percent.  Is that the great results this government is providing for the youth of this province?

* (1015)

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, I will invite the Leader of the Opposition to look at the out‑migration statistics.  They have reduced 1990 versus 1989, and they reduced again 1991 versus 1990.

      Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, the answers that are provided by New Democrats are higher taxes time after time.  The Leader of the Opposition gleefully talks about improving the budgetary situation during his term of office‑‑yes, by adding over $800 million of new taxes, additional taxes that they brought in.  During the six and a half years of that NDP administration, personal income taxes increased by 139 percent‑‑in six and a half years, personal income taxes, 139 percent.  That is the answer that they have.

      We will not burden the people of this province.  We will not burden the businesses of this province with increased taxes to satisfy the political agenda of the NDP.  No, Mr. Speaker, we will not.

 

North American Free Trade Agreement

Information Tabling Request

 

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon):  Mr. Speaker, the First Minister (Mr. Filmon) last week suggested that he was prepared to co‑operate and provide members of the opposition with information on the impact of the free trade agreements on the Manitoba economy, and I guess my question is to the acting Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism or to the First Minister.

      Mr. Speaker, in light of the fact that 59,000 Manitobans are now unemployed, in light of the fact that Stats Canada reports that nonresidential investment in Manitoba had dropped 3.3 percent until March of 1992, can the First Minister indicate‑‑first, will he now table any studies he had, sectoral studies, on the impact of the free trade agreements on the Manitoba economy, and can he explain how this statistic, the 3.3 percent decline in nonresidential investment, is going to create work for the 59,000 people who are now looking for work in Manitoba?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, we are under review, as I have said on numerous occasions, of the proposals that are put forth by all three of the parties in the North American free trade agreement, that we have put forward very strongly our six major concerns that have to be dealt with, that the analysis has not been completed and given to the minister for discussion by cabinet, and until that happens, we will not have further discussion on the matter.

Mr. Storie:  Well, then, is the First Minister contradicting what the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Stefanson) told this House earlier this week, that in fact the report from the department had been received by the minister?

      Is the minister contradicting what his own minister said, and will we finally get to the truth of this and get some information about the impact of not only the North American free trade agreement, but the Free Trade Agreement, which is ruining the economy?

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, I will repeat for the information of the member for Flin Flon, cabinet has not yet received any report or had any discussion on this.

        

Manufacturing Industry

Employment Decline

 

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon):  Mr. Speaker, if this is not a covert attempt at keeping information‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Question, please.

Mr. Storie:  Mr. Speaker, the manufacturing sector in the province of Manitoba has been amongst the hardest hit of sectors.  We have seen a decline in employment in the manufacturing sector by approximately 12,000 people over the last two years.

      Can the Acting Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism or the First Minister tell this House what projections or what information the minister has on the trend to moving plants from Manitoba to the United States, the trend to closing plants, to rationalize plants to other parts of the world and its impact on the manufacturing employment in the province?

* (1020)

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, according to the information in the labour force survey that was tabled by Statistics Canada today, there has not been a decrease in manufacturing jobs in Manitoba in the past year, despite the fact that, overall, at the national level, there has been a loss of 106,000 jobs or 5.9 percent.  The indications, even in the Royal Bank analysis, are that manufacturing will be one of the stronger sectors for growth in Manitoba.  They specifically refer to aerospace.

      I know that the member for Flin Flon is not aware of the fact that there are many areas of the so‑called new growth areas of technology‑‑high technology, computers and various other areas, communications, medical products, two pharmaceutical plants being built in Manitoba at the present time, the areas of aerospace, which are seen to be one of the highest growth areas for the future of this province.

      Those are the areas that are being pointed to as areas of opportunity, growth and development of new jobs and new technologies in this province.  Those are the areas in which we are concentrating our efforts by way of economic development.

 

Youth Unemployment

Government Strategy

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  The unemployment statistics that came out today were really quite shocking and have to be of concern to all of us.

      When this government came to office in May of 1988, 13.4 percent of the young people between the ages of 15 and 24 were unemployed.  Today that statistic is 18.6 percent, an increase of 5.2 percent.  For young men between the ages of 15 and 24, that statistic has increased to 22.3 percent, or a 9.1 percent increase.  Almost one in four young men entering what should be a job market finds himself unable to find employment.

      Can the First Minister tell us what specific strategies his economic secretariat is dealing with to deal with this excessively high unemployment rate for our young men and women in the province of Manitoba?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, certainly all of us are concerned about the employment levels for youth in this province, and as we approach the summer months where youth are looking for jobs in greater numbers, one of the things that was put forward in this year's budget is not only a maintenance of the level of funding for CareerStart, but a new program called Partners with Youth that will create hundreds and thousands of additional jobs for the youth of our province.

      That, Mr. Speaker, will be our attempt to ensure that the youth of this province can participate in the economic recovery of this province and can participate in the opportunity for them to be able to be employed gainfully during the summer months and beyond.

Mrs. Carstairs:::  Mr. Speaker, the Premier knows full well that the money for Partners with Youth has come from other funding programs which were also supporting job programs for young people.

      Can the First Minister tell this House today how many new jobs will be available for those young people as a result of his government initiatives, when he compares the jobs that were there with all the old programs with the jobs that, quite frankly, are going to be there in just a newly named program?

Mr. Filmon:  I just want to correct the Leader of the Liberal Party.  She has obviously not read the budget information accurately.  It comes from a brand new program called REDI, which is the money that comes out of the video lottery terminals, which is new money that has not been there in any other previous government programs.

      That money is intended to create, in addition to the jobs that will be in CareerStart, will create about a thousand additional jobs, new money that has never been there in any other program.

* (1025)

 

Community Colleges

Employment Training Initiatives

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Premier to go back and look at his own budget and look at the money they pulled out of northern programs for young people, they pulled out of skills training programs for young people, and I want to know what the bottom line is on the creation of brand new jobs.  I cannot find any brand new jobs as a result of any of these initiatives.

      Mr. Speaker, the alternative for young people, if they cannot find employment, is to continue their education and training. Can the Minister of Education and Training tell this House today, finally, how many new training positions will be available in this province in our community colleges for the academic year 1992‑93‑‑new, above and beyond what is there at the present time?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, I would like to answer in two parts.

      First of all, I would like to start by talking about the K‑12 system and our commitment for young people so that those young people remain in school for their training, that we are supporting them through a foundation of education, and we have in fact also added a student support branch.

      In addition, Mr. Speaker, as I have answered in this House previously, is over 600 new positions.

 

Social Assistance

Employment Creation Strategy

 

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows):  Mr. Speaker, two weeks ago I was given a tour of a City of Winnipeg welfare office.  I was told that four to five new cases are being applied for every day.  The caseload is up to 15,000 cases from 10,000 a year ago, an increase of over 50 percent.  They are now paying mortgages for people of $900 and $1,000 a month, people who have never been unemployed before in their lives and are shocked to find themselves, as employable adults, in a city welfare office.

      What is the Tory solution to this?  It is to spend $40 million more this year than last year on social assistance.  They are paying people to stay home instead of paying people to work.

      I would like to ask the Premier what his government is doing to get people back to work instead of spending tens of millions of dollars more on additional social assistance.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  To begin with, Mr. Speaker, rather than operating in a very facile way, as the member for Burrows is with the situation, we are showing our concern‑‑

 

Point of Order

 

Mr. Martindale:  There is absolutely nothing facile about my attitude toward my constituents on social assistance‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member does not have a point of order.  It is a dispute over the facts.

* * *

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, I will not apologize for putting more money into social allowances to ensure that those people‑‑higher increases I might say than are being put in by NDP governments everywhere else in this country, because we recognize that people are in difficulty, that people do not want to be on social assistance, but while they are there, they deserve the support of a government that cares about them.  We do indeed care about them, so we will make sure that they will get the support they need.

      Mr. Speaker, we will not do what the New Democrats want to do which is that as soon as they are in a position to seek employment, tax it all away from them by raising their taxes and confiscating everything that they hope to earn to get themselves back on their feet.  We will not raise the taxes of everybody in this province to do the short‑term, make‑work jobs that the NDP did when they were in office, that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer), when he was president of MGEA, called 'planting flowers along the roadsides' just to try and keep up the image of the NDP.  We will not do that.

      We will care for them when they need care, and we will build a stronger economy by keeping the taxes down in this province and ensuring that there is an attractive place for investment.  That is why the Royal Bank says that last year our growth rate was the third best in the country; this year it will be the fourth best; next year it will be the second best, because we are doing the right things, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Martindale:  Manitobans would rather work and pay taxes than sit home and collect social assistance and not pay any taxes.

Mr. Speaker:  Question, please.

 

Dutch Elm Disease Program

Funding Restoration

 

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows):  Will the Premier commit himself to restoring the funding to the Dutch elm disease control program of $350,000 which they cut out, so that employable people on City of Winnipeg social assistance and municipal social assistance in rural Manitoba can get back to work and make a meaningful contribution to society and the environment?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Natural Resources):  I have indicated to this House before that my forestry officials are currently reviewing the issue, and I have every intention of ensuring that the acceptable level of program is maintained.

* (1030)

 

Scientific Opinion

Tabling Request

 

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Natural Resources):  Mr. Speaker, while I am on my feet, the other day, the honourable member for Wolseley (Ms. Friesen), I believe, asked whether I could table any supporting professional information in that regard.  I would like to table a document from the Chief Forester in my department, Mr. Richard Westwood, which indicates that the present level would maintain that 2 percent that we talked about the other day.

      Nonetheless, Mr. Speaker, that is not quite good enough.  The truth of the matter is we are losing trees, and it is important that we worry about replacing them.  I promised that I would have a program available for consideration within a very short time.

      It is not an urgency matter with us, because we are looking at a snowstorm right now, and we really cannot get at this until the latter part of May or June.  It may be easy for a Free Press editorial writer to make these decisions in 10 minutes, but we regard very carefully how an additional $100,000 or $200,000 or $300,000 can be spent of the taxpayers' money.

 

Human Resources

Opportunity CentreFunding Restoration

 

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows):  Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier if he will commit himself to restoring funding for the Human Resources Opportunity Centre in Selkirk which trains social assistance recipients for employment, instead of increasing funding for social assistance which they have done and which they will probably have to do again halfway through the fiscal year.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  See, Mr. Speaker, every question involves increasing spending or increasing taxes.  Every New Democratic suggestion is increasing taxes, which will then drive more jobs out of this province, just as they did every time they raised the taxes when they were in government.

      That is not the answer to all of our problems.  It did not work under the New Democrats, and it will not work in the future.

 

Oak Hammock Marsh

Ducks Unlimited Complex

 

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson):  Mr. Speaker, earlier this week, the Environment minister accused the opposition of using misleading information when we called for the Oak Hammock Marsh office complex to be referred back to the Clean Environment Commission for a proper review.

      I would like to ask the same minister if he will now concede that we were in fact using accurate information, since today, his own Manitoba Environment Council has condemned the project and asked that it be referred back to the same Clean Environment Commission.

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Mr. Speaker, the member still incorrectly characterizes the figures that they are using.  They are misleading and misrepresenting what is occurring under the conditions of the licence.

      The soil that is being disturbed was sodded.  The material will be returned to the surface with the original material.  It was set up and approved under the scrutiny of the advisory committee of the Ducks Unlimited project which, in their comments, said that this was an exemplary way in which to proceed.  I wish that the member would take a look at those facts.

Ms. Cerilli:  Mr. Speaker, the minister knows full well that the two most important reports, the Bovey Report and the Boothroyd Report, were mysteriously lost or not included before the Clean Environment Commission, and it is only now that those reports are available.

      Based on that, will the minister now return this project back to the Clean Environment Commission so that those reports can be used?

Mr. Cummings:  Mr. Speaker, I believe, if the member wants to check the records, that we made very clear to the decision‑makers that the information provided in those reports was available to them, and they proceeded on that basis.

Ms. Cerilli:  Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister of Environment if his department has done any studies in order to determine how wildlife in this area is being impacted, since they are also changing the licence to do heavy construction, contrary to the original licence, during the sensitive migration period.

Mr. Cummings:  Mr. Speaker, there will not be activities taking place during sensitive migratory periods of activity in that area, and we are very carefully controlling the activities so that this protection is provided.

      I think the member should recognize that one of the primary objectives that we need to do as a society is make sure that we have educational opportunities for upcoming generations to be able to view the activities and the importance of those activities, and that is exactly what this project will achieve.

 

Hazardous Waste Management Corporation

PCB Storage Site

 

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James):  Mr. Speaker‑‑

An Honourable Member:  Oh, he is back.

An Honourable Member:  They are glad to see you, at least.

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

Mr. Edwards:  I only wish I had been able to accompany the member for Rossmere (Mr. Neufeld), Mr. Speaker.  I am sure he is having a better time than I did.

      Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Environment. Early last month, the province announced that the long awaited $30‑million Hazardous Waste Corporation facility would be built on a site in the R.M. of Montcalm.

      Mr. Speaker, when one reviews all of the documents issued, not only by this government but by the corporation since 1982, since this process has been underway, it is clear that the facility is to be a comprehensive waste treatment facility‑‑in the words of a February 27, 1991, press release‑‑handling all products except dangerous goods, being radioactive and explosive materials.  Everything else was to be handled in one facility.

      My question for the minister is:  Why is the Hazardous Waste Corporation now saying to the people of the R.M. of Montcalm in a letter to their local newspaper on March 23 of this year that PCB storage will not be done at the Montcalm site and further‑‑and I quote from that letter from the corporation:  as a result it may be necessary to duplicate a portion of our facility in another community, such as Winnipeg, to store PCBs.

      Mr. Speaker, why has this government moved away from the one comprehensive site which has been their theory for 10 years?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Mr. Speaker, one of the most important aspects of the process that the Hazardous Waste Corporation has gone through is community consultation; first of all, to make sure that there was a community that was willing and anxious to be receptive to the location of a facility there.  Part of that also led very directly to an understanding between the corporation and any community‑‑and this is not unusual from the type of discussions that occurred in other locations as well‑‑that had some input into what the operation of the facility, what form it might take.

      It is correct to say that at this juncture, PCBs are not contemplated to be stored at that facility, but the community, through its input into the management of the corporation, will have an ongoing opportunity to review what occurs there.  That is a condition that the corporation is prepared to live with, has the capacity to work with because, frankly, as PCBs are phased out, there is a lack of demand for increasing storage capacity.

      Mr. Speaker, the agreement that the corporation is working toward is one that the community is fully in understanding and co‑operation with, and it is prepared to continue to discuss those types of operational matters and will not be a problem for the corporation.

Mr. Edwards:  Mr. Speaker, that is an about‑face after 10 years of an assumption of there being one facility.  My question for the minister is:  Given that the manager of external affairs has said the site will be in Winnipeg, can the minister tell the House exactly where in Winnipeg the Hazardous Waste Corporation intends to store the PCBs, and how much of the 108 metric tonnes per year produced in this province will be stored in the city and at what site?

Mr. Cummings:  Mr. Speaker, I think the member perhaps is either wanting to or is attempting to read more into that comment than what was intended.  There is in fact PCB storage today managed by Manitoba Hydro.  They are the largest holder of that product.

      This is not a deviation from the plan of the corporation, because particularly, Mr. Speaker, this is to my knowledge the only hazardous waste treatment facility in North America that has been voluntarily sited, with the co‑operation of the community, and has the support of the community to see that it is operated carefully and managed in the best interests of the public of this province.

* (1040)

Mr. Edwards:  Mr. Speaker, I understand the goal of community support, but can the minister tell members of this House why after 10 years, the assumption being that there would be one site, one total facility, which made eminent sense to everyone and was always in all of the documents the assumption, why this government has moved from that position and why they are now exempting PCBs, only PCBs, from that theory, and where in the city they plan to put the PCBs?

Mr. Cummings:  Mr. Speaker, I suspect the member is leading in a direction that he does not intend to because his remarks seem to indicate that he supports a single monopolistic operation within the province; either that or he misunderstands the mandate of the corporation.

      This is a treatment facility.  It will not at this point contain any incineration capacity.  It is a facility that will treat the majority of the waste produced in this province, but not all.  That is known because we are a small province which simply does not have the capacity to be able to deal with every known waste that needs to be neutralized, destroyed or otherwise.

      The other thing that I think needs to be made very clear is that this facility will not be operated in the manner of the Alberta hazardous waste system, where there is in fact a great deal of storage going on.  This will be a facility which will take material that it can treat and neutralize.  It will also be an operation that will help to find a home for the other material that it cannot handle.

 

Chinese Cooking

Wine Sale Restrictions

 

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas):  Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for the Liquor Control Commission.

      I will table the Alberta legislation from 1989 that deals with Chinese cooking wine for the minister's benefit.  John Rodgers from the Main Street Project believes their agency has seen nine deaths, not three, but nine, related to the Chinese cooking wine in the past year alone.

      Six months ago, the Attorney General (Mr. McCrae) promised changes to the legislation to address the issue of abuse of Chinese cooking wine.  Why is the minister only now undertaking the tests and studies to take this step?

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister charged with the administration of The Liquor Control Act):  Mr. Speaker, the committee upon which we sit is a coalition committee.  John Rodgers in fact is on that committee, and his contributions are very valuable.  He is very interested in the topic and terribly concerned, as are we and as are all of those who care about substance abuse in society.

      The Liquor Commission has been asked through that committee to test some of the brands of the cooking wines that are on the shelves, and we are in the process of doing that.  We hope to hear back later this month as to whether or not they will be scientifically deemed to be potable substances.

      If they are potable substances, then they could come under the control of the Liquor Commission.  If they are not, then some other means of controlling them, if that is felt to be the solution, would have to be devised and may include a needed change in definition to the act.

Mr. Hickes:  Mr. Speaker, this issue was raised six months ago, and now only today they are conducting these tests.  The minister was aware of it six months ago.  I would like to ask the minister to table the results of past studies and tests before she hires more consultants to do more tests.

      My supplementary question is to the same minister.  Will she now listen to calls from the community, echoed by CJOB, which said, Mrs. McIntosh should sign the banning order today and take action now based on the success of the Alberta legislation?

Mrs. McIntosh:  Mr. Speaker, I should indicate that the committee that is sitting is a volunteer committee.  We did not hire them as consultants.  The testing laboratories we are using are quality control people whom we use for testing a variety of spirits to ascertain their purity.

      I should also indicate that I would love to be able to solve all the problems of the world today, right now this minute. Would we all not?  I cannot, however‑‑

Some Honourable Members:  Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

Mrs. McIntosh:  I am sure they would like to hear the answer, Mr. Speaker, so I will wait until they are listening.

      Mr. Speaker, I cannot sign a banning order because the act, as I have explained to the member earlier, in Manitoba, we look after potable beverages at the Liquor Control Commission.  I cannot sign a banning order dealing with something that is classified at the moment to be nonpotable.  That is why we are having it examined to find out if in fact we can have scientific evidence that would prove it to be something other than nonpotable.

Mr. Hickes:  Mr. Speaker, this was raised six months ago.

Mr. Speaker:  Question, please.

Mr. Hickes:  She could have been working on those amendments six months ago.  How many more deaths are we going to see?

 

Solvent Abuse Legislation

Proclamation

 

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas):  My final question is to the Minister of Health.

      Will he, in light of his colleague's comments that his government wants to fight nonbeverage alcohol substance abuse, respond to the wishes of Manitobans and finally proclaim the antisolvent abuse legislation introduced by the member for St. Johns (Ms. Wasylycia-Leis) well over two years ago?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, I can add no further clarity than I did when posed the similar question yesterday.

Mr. Speaker:  Time for Oral Questions has expired.

 

NONPOLITICAL STATEMENTS

 

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship):  Mr. Speaker, might I have leave to make a nonpolitical statement?

Mr. Speaker:  Does the honourable minister have leave to make a nonpolitical statement?  Leave.  It is agreed.

Mrs. Mitchelson:  The week of April 12 to 18 is National Citizenship Week.  This week has been celebrated since 1988 to mark the signing of the Canadian Charter of Rights.  It is our opportunity each year to reflect on Canadian citizenship and how precious it is to us.

      In Canada, our citizenship guarantees us rights and privileges that are unheard of in other countries.  One of the most important of these freedoms is our right to express our opinions, and we frequently use this Chamber to do just that.  We do it with the understanding that others have equal right to express theirs.

      I often meet people from other countries where such freedom is unheard of, where walking down a street is an act of bravery, where speaking for an idea would mean death.  This freedom has always been one of Canada's most desirable attributes, attracting millions from around the world in their search for freedom and opportunity.  It has helped make Canada one of the few truly international or multicultural countries of the world.  Nowhere in Canada is this international flavour better evidenced than right here in Manitoba.

      As the composition of our community evolves and changes, we are learning to respect the cultural heritage that our new citizens bring to Manitoba.  We are learning to weave it into a new Manitoba heritage.  It means we face a great challenge.  It means respecting what each of us brings to Manitoba and acknowledging that in this developing country all these heritages have value.

      We seldom take the time to really consider the true richness that our country offers.  I hope that all of us will take some time next week to do just that, consider the importance of our citizenship, the rights that we enjoy and the privileges that make us a truly noble country.

      Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

* * *

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Could I have leave for a nonpolitical statement?

Mr. Speaker:  Does the honourable Leader have leave?  Leave.  It is agreed.

Mrs. Carstairs:::  Mr. Speaker, tomorrow is a very momentous occasion for one member of the Manitoba Legislature.  After 43 years of managing to escape the marital bliss that some of the rest of us have experienced, tomorrow at 11 a.m. the member for Osborne (Mr. Alcock) will indeed be married to Karen Taraska.

      Mr. Speaker, there was a roast with respect to the honourable member on Wednesday.  Unfortunately, I was not able to be there. I did give him several pieces of advice, one of which I think will make sense to many of you.  I did suggest that if he did not want to offend his mother‑in‑law in perpetuity, he should arrive on time for the ceremony, and that meant at 11 a.m. and not 11:15 or 11:30.

      I also suggested that it was perhaps in his best interest not to take his computers with him to the service, whether it was the large one, whether it was the small PC, or whether it was in fact the calendar.  We have gotten quite used to them all in our caucus room, but we did not think, again, that his mother‑in‑law would be particularly impressed with those at the marital service itself.[interjection!

      I hope she is not, but I did make a recommendation‑‑for the member for Pembina (Mr. Orchard)‑‑that he not take the computers on his honeymoon.  I did say to the bride that I thought there was a limit to the control and power that this Leader had.  I did suggest that there were certain places on the honeymoon, however, that it should not go.

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      Mr. Speaker, with all humour aside, the member for Osborne is indeed entering a state tomorrow that, for me, has been the most important thing in my entire life.  My marriage represents the most important thing to me, bar none, and I can only wish for the member for Osborne the same happiness and joy, friendship, companionship and love that marriage has brought to me.  I am sure that this is the wish of each and every member of this Assembly.

 

ORDERS OF THE DAY

 

       Hon. Clayton Manness (Government House Leader):  Mr. Speaker, would you call second readings, Bills 68 and 72, and then adjourned debate, Bill 45.

 

SECOND READINGS