LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

 Thursday, April 23, 1992

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

       

PRAYERS

 

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

 

PRESENTING PETITIONS

 

Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk):  I beg to present the petition of Rick Keep, Cam Wortman, Craig Scott and others requesting the Minister of Family Services (Mr. Gilleshammer) consider a one‑year moratorium on the closure of the Human Resources Opportunity Centre in Selkirk.

 

READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS

       

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar), and it complies with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules (by leave).  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

      The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

      WHEREAS the Human Resources Opportunity Office has operated in Selkirk for over 21 years providing training for the unemployed and people re‑entering the labour force; and

      WHEREAS during the past 10 years alone over 1,000 trainees have gone through the program gaining valuable skills and training; and

      WHEREAS upwards of 80 percent of the training centre's recent graduates have found employment; and

      WHEREAS without consultation the program was cut in the 1992 provincial budget forcing the centre to close; and

      WHEREAS there is a growing need for this program in Selkirk and the program has the support of the town of Selkirk, the Selkirk local of the Manitoba Metis Federation as well as many other local organizations and individuals.

      WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislature of the Province of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Minister of Family Services (Mr. Gilleshammer) to consider a one‑year moratorium on the program.

* * *

      I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member for Wolseley (Ms. Friesen), and it complies with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

      The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

      WHEREAS the Dutch elm disease control program is of primary importance to the protection of the city's many elm trees; and

      WHEREAS the Minister of Natural Resources himself stated that, "It is vital that we continue our active fight against Dutch elm disease in Manitoba," and

      WHEREAS, despite that verbal commitment, the government of Manitoba has cut its funding to the city's DED control program by half of the 1990 level, a move that will jeopardize the survival of Winnipeg's elm trees.

      WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the government of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns) to consider restoring the full funding of the Dutch elm disease control program to the previous level of 1990.

      As in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

     

Introduction of Guests

       

Mr. Speaker:  Je tiens a vous signaler la presence dans la galerie publique de vingt‑neuf etudiants de la neuvieme annee de l'Ecole Viscount‑Alexander, sous la direction d'Amelie Gauthier. Cette institution est situee dans la circonscription de l'honourable minstre de l'Education (Mme Vodrey).

      Also this afternoon we have seated in the public gallery, from the Red River Community College, forty students under the direction of Mrs. Atallah and Mrs. Thorlakson.  This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Point Douglas (Mr. Hickes).

      On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here this afternoon.

       

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

       

Shoal Lake Protection

Premier's Discussion

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, Winnipeg has always been envied by Canadian cities and North American cities for being one of only two cities in this country that has untreated water for our water supply, with the wisdom of our forefathers and foremothers in the establishment of the aqueduct at Shoal Lake and the water supply to Winnipeg.

      Last week the Premier of Manitoba (Mr. Filmon) met again with the Premier of Ontario.  He met at a time when there are lobbying attempts going on with one of the companies, one of the 12 mining companies that have claims in the area of the Shoal Lake watershed, Mr. Speaker.

      I would like to ask the Premier:  Can he advise us of whether he discussed the issue of the Shoal Lake water supply for the city of Winnipeg with the Premier, and can the Premier advise Manitobans on the status of our water supply based on his meetings with the Premier of Ontario?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Yes, Mr. Speaker, indeed I did raise the issue with the Premier, and I re‑emphasized our desire to have the fullest possible environmental assessment and review done of any proposal that would be within the watershed of Shoal Lake, the source of the city of Winnipeg's water supply.

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Shoal Lake Protection

Negotiations ‑ Ontario

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Certainly, we concur with the Premier (Mr. Filmon) to oppose the lobbying by the mining industry and the 12 companies that have the claims in the Shoal Lake water area for the change in the environmental process that they are proposing in the province of Ontario.

      The Premier, in his Estimates of March 23, 1992, indicated that he had discussed with the Premier of Ontario the need for a management plan for the total watershed and work on the development of a management plan for the total watershed.  Last time we asked questions to the Minister of Environment on this issue, he indicated that those negotiations were somewhat in limbo, I guess we can characterize his answer.

      I would ask the Premier:  Can he advise Manitobans what the status is of the watershed negotiations that are going on, which obviously makes good sense for Manitoba?  Can he advise us of the Premier of Ontario and his discussions at that meeting in Ontario last week?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Mr. Speaker, it is still the position of this government that we want a complete watershed management plan.  I hope that the Leader of the Opposition will use his good office to encourage his colleagues in Ontario to work with us to bring this to completion.

      We had some confusion for a short period of time between which ministry in Ontario was going to be working with it, whether it would be the ministry of Environment or some other responsibilities that were assigned to other ministers.  As I stated, I believe, a week ago, Mr. Speaker, apparently that authority is going to be returned to the ministry of Environment.  I have been in contact with Minister Grier, and certainly, as soon as Ontario is willing to proceed in that area, we are more than anxious to get on with it.

 

Shoal Lake Protection

Environmental Review Process

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Pursuant to the Premier's answer to the question dealing with the meeting with Premier Rae, last week, when I asked the question about the changing lobbying from Consolidated Professor, the minister indicated that they would not be raising this issue formally with Ontario because, quote:  it was not a formal proposal from Consolidated even though they had the whole mining industry behind them.

      In his answer just now he indicated that he has indeed raised this with the minister, which I congratulate him for doing.

      I would ask the Premier:  Did he receive any commitment from the Premier of Ontario not to proceed with a changed environmental process in the province of Ontario?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, I would be surprised, I suppose, if the Premier would make a decision like that on the basis of a short discussion with me.  I will say that I was encouraged by his response and his awareness of the concerns of Manitoba, and I am optimistic that he would be supportive of our position that the fullest possible environmental assessment review be done on any proposal, such as the Consolidated Professor within the watershed of Shoal Lake, and in being supportive, that would indicate that there would not be a change in the proposed method of operation as we have been discussing it in the past.

 

Conawapa Dam Project

Premier's Discussions

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  I have a new question to the Premier.

      Mr. Speaker, the Premier did indeed meet with the Premier of Ontario last week, and he did discuss the issue of Shoal Lake, a very important bilateral issue between the two provinces.

      Another very important project between the two provinces obviously is the Conawapa Dam and the Conawapa project and the transmission line that is proposed to go to Ontario for purposes of sale of electricity to that province and the sale or use of electricity eventually for the province of Manitoba for domestic use.

      Since the government has signed the agreement with Premier Peterson in Ontario, the domestic load growth projections for Manitoba and Ontario have changed considerably.  I wonder if the Premier of Manitoba has discussed the issue of the Conawapa project and the time lines and penalties in the Conawapa project with the Premier of Ontario, given the latest data that his government has on domestic use for Manitoba and the data that is available now in the province of Ontario.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Yes, Mr. Speaker, I did discuss that matter with the Premier of Ontario.

 

Penalty Clauses

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, many organizations in Manitoba, aboriginal organizations in Manitoba, other organizations in Manitoba are very concerned about the timing and the speed of the environmental processes in this province.  Certainly the penalty clauses that were negotiated by the Premier and the Premier of Ontario are very, very extreme in terms of dates for cancellation of the project.  They have very, very tight time lines which escalate the amount of money that Manitoba Hydro is required to pay Ontario Hydro and Ontario Hydro is required to pay Manitoba Hydro.

      I was wondering, in light of the change in domestic load growth from an early date of 2001 for Manitoba and 2002 for Ontario, whether the Premier has discussed these escalating penalties, these major penalties in the contract, and whether they have discussed allowing a less frenzied potential pace on the hearing process to take place.

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Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, I am a little amused at the suggestion of the frenzied pace when the agreement was signed in December of 1989, and we are now two and a half years down the road.  That is quite some frenzy that we are dealing with.  The fact of the matter is that the change in load growth that is being referred to by the Leader of the Opposition was anticipated and was taken into account by the Public Utilities Board in their review.  The Public Utilities Board review anticipated a possible change of load growth projection when they made their determination and their recommendation to proceed with the project.

      The fact of the matter is that the environmental assessment and review process will be carried out in as reasonable a fashion as it possibly can.  We see no reason why the Leader of the Opposition or anybody would want to unreasonably deter or in fact delay the project.  The review will be done.  People have had almost two and a half years to prepare for the review on both sides, to prepare their case, to prepare their information.  Now when they go before that very thorough and complete review, they will be able to make their case.

      I would assume that the Clean Environment Commission and the joint review process before a panel of experts will give it a very thorough, very complete and very well‑considered response whenever that time arises.  There is no reason on our part to accelerate it, and there is no reason on the part of the opponents to delay it.  The process should take place in a reasonable fashion, and it will take place in a reasonable fashion.

 

Premier's Discussions

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, did the Premier raise the concerns from the Manitoba MKO organization that Mr. Michael Anderson, the research director of the organization representing 24 bands, has said that the one‑month period that they have to present detailed presentation to the panels is not enough time to deal with this issue?  Has the Premier discussed some of these concerns coming from bands which are most directly affected in terms of the proposed transmission line?  Did the Premier discuss that with the Premier of Ontario, or can the Premier advise us what he did discuss when he discussed the Conawapa project with the Premier of Ontario last week when he met with him?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, I repeat that all of these people including the bands have had almost two and a half years to consider the proposal and the potential impacts of that proposal.  I say, the Leader of the Opposition, from his chair in opposition, has the great benefit of being able to be all over the map and change his position very regularly.

      I would like to just quote, Mr. Speaker, what he said in July of 1988, in the debate on the first budget of this administration:  We will fight the mothballing of our Manitoba Hydro program right down the line this session and next session of the Legislature.

      He wanted this project and this proposal to proceed expeditiously, as quickly as possible, because he wanted that hydro project to be developed.

      Now for his own political purposes, he is changing 180 degrees and now talking about slowing down, slowing down, obfuscating, delaying, all of those kinds of things.  He cannot have it both ways.  I know every day in this House and every day out there he tries to have it all ways, but this is carrying it to a ridiculous extreme, I would say.

 

Conawapa Dam Project

Justification

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, that certainly has not been the position of the Liberal Party in Manitoba.  The Liberal Party in Manitoba has consistently said that we should not build a power project unless that power was required for the needs of Manitobans.

      Mr. Speaker, it has become increasingly clear that not only is that power not needed in the province of Manitoba, it is also not needed in the province of Ontario.  Why are we spending, between the two provinces, $13 billion and $5.7 billion in this province?

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Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, let us not go from the sublime to the ridiculous.

      The fact of the matter is, this project and the economics of this project were considered by an objective third‑party review under the Public Utilities Board, and they determined that the economics of the project were positive.  They determined that given the fact that there was an assumption that the projected load growth could be out on either side, positive or negative, and they still felt that the economics were positive.

      I now find it rather amusing that the Liberal Party argued against this project on the basis that Ontario had made too good a deal, that the Liberal government of David Peterson had put one over on us and made too good a deal on this, and that now we should be concerned about it.  Now the people appearing before a similar review in Ontario are saying that Manitoba made too good a deal, that Ontario is paying too big a price and that David Peterson got snookered, Mr. Speaker.

      Well, I wonder just what exactly the Liberals want.  Did they get snookered, or did they not get snookered?  Is David Peterson a good negotiator, or is he not a good negotiator?  Make up your mind.

 

Public Utilities Board

Review

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Well, with the greatest respect, Mr. Speaker, the arguments that are being made in Ontario today are being made by people who would also like to produce the power.  Let us be totally realistic about this.

      Mr. Speaker, the question being asked is one that is very simple.  The Public Utilities Board decided this issue on information provided to them by Manitoba Hydro, information which some three months later proved to be terribly inaccurate.  Why is this government so afraid to take this deal back to the Public Utilities Board to ask them to re‑evaluate it in light of new information provided by Manitoba Hydro?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Liberal Party began her question founded on the credibility of those who were appearing at the public review in Ontario.  She then, in response to my answer, said that they had no credibility because they were wanting to produce their own power.  She cannot have it both ways.

      The fact of the matter is, the PUB report, after the review of the capital projects of Manitoba Hydro, including Conawapa, said, and I quote:  The level of the DSM target assumed for planning purposes today will not significantly affect the conclusions concerning the profitability of the Ontario sale, nor will it affect any current decisions regarding the construction of facilities.

      They took it into account.  It does not have to be rereviewed.  They already took it into account.  I invite the Leader of the Liberal Party to read that report and to go and consult with the Public Utilities Board about this matter instead of making outlandish suggestions.

Mrs. Carstairs:  Well, with the greatest respect to the Premier, the Public Utilities Board is supposed to be an arm's‑length body from politicians and not to be one that is consulted with, one that studies and observes.

      Why is this government, in light of significant new information, still refusing to do what is in the best interests of the ratepayers of this province, which is to ensure that our money is being spent appropriately?

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, there is no new information.  The Public Utilities Board said the level of the DSM target, that is the domestic‑load‑growth target assumed for planning purposes today, will not significantly affect the conclusions concerning the profitability of the Ontario sale, nor will it affect any current decisions regarding the construction of the facilities. They took it into account.

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Department of Education and Training

Deputy Minister's Salary

 

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):  Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Education and Training.

      Mr. Speaker, in this budget, the government talked about belt tightening for all Manitobans.  It tells school boards and universities to hold the line, yet the government in its actions does exactly the opposite by giving great increases to elite schools while starving the public school system.

      Now, this year, we are being asked to increase again the salary of a key appointment of the Conservatives, a deputy minister, to $100,000 this year, which is a 7 percent increase this year and a 37 percent increase in the last three years.

      How can this minister justify this increase while telling everyone else to hold the line?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, I would like to correct first of all some of the information that the critic has tried to put on the record.  In fact, we have increased our funding to the public school system in this province.  We have increased our funding to the university system.  We have increased our funding to community colleges, and we have increased our commitment to training.

      The further issues that he has raised I will be happy to answer for him during the Estimates process.

 

Executive Support

 

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):  Perhaps the minister can tell me therefore why the Department of Education, in the last three years, has increased its expenditures for Executive Support to the minister by 40 percent or $150,000.

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  To ensure that my critic understands it, there is a general salary increase necessary; however, the details I will be happy to discuss in Estimates.

 

Deputy Minister's Salary

 

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):  Mr. Speaker, will the minister have the courage to limit the increase to her deputy minister at least to the same level that she has given to public schools in Manitoba?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, I will be more than happy to debate the issue with my honourable friend during the Estimates process.

     

Health Care System

Deinsurance ‑ Impacted Wisdom Teeth

 

Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (St. Johns):  Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health continues to address concerns about health care costs by eroding fundamental principles under our medicare system.

      Mr. Speaker, in the past, this government has deinsured a number of services under medicare.  Today we have learned that this deinsurance has been extended to now cover the removal of impacted teeth under certain circumstances, with new definitions, in hospital when anesthetic services are required.

      I would like to know from this minister why this decision was made, what savings he will incur, and what is the impact‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The question has been put.

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, yes, we have had discussions, since approximately June or July of last year, with the providers in terms of the insured removal of asymptomatic impacted wisdom teeth.  Those procedures have been undertaken in the past from time to time, without medical necessity, in the hospital at a cost to the system when there was not the medical necessity for utilization of hospital facilities.

      The regulations that we have recently passed assure the continuation, Sir, of medically required surgical removal of impacted wisdom teeth so that this service will continue to be available to those Manitobans who require hospitalization for that because of the medical necessity, either of their personal health or the condition of their impacted wisdom teeth.

      However, the system will now reflect removal of impacted wisdom teeth where asymptomatic ones will no longer be undertaken in the hospital with medicare coverage.

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Ms. Wasylycia-Leis:  Could the minister please tell this House what consultations he has had with professional groups, the Manitoba Dental Association, the College of Physicians and Surgeons, the anesthetists of this province, as well as consultations with the consumers in Manitoba, particularly the seniors in this province, and what were the results of those deliberations and consultations for this deinsurance move?

Mr. Orchard:  Mr. Speaker, before my honourable friend leaves the impression that medically needed removal of impacted wisdom teeth is deinsured, let my honourable friend not spread that falsehood.

      Medically required removal in hospital will still be available and insured under the medicare plan in Manitoba.  What we are talking about is removal of asymptomatic; in other words, no medical symptoms or requirements for that removal to take place in the hospital.  That will not be covered as it has been in the past.

      Now let me indicate to my honourable friend that we have had discussions around this issue for approximately 10 months with the Dental Association.  We have had discussions with the MMA through the anesthetists because that also was part of the discussions.

      Mr. Speaker, although my honourable friend may wish to attempt to raise a great consternation about this, I simply say to my honourable friend that the regulations that we have now brought into existence in Manitoba parallel long‑standing regulations in other provinces where only medically necessary removal of impacted wisdom teeth are covered, such provinces as Ontario.

 

Health Care System

Deinsurance ‑ Impacted Wisdom Teeth

 

Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (St. Johns):  I do not think that long answer will give the consumers or particularly the seniors of Manitoba much comfort in this decision by the Minister of Health.

      I would like to ask the Minister responsible for Seniors if he could tell this House if he was consulted about this decision and what impact this will have on seniors' access to our universally high‑quality, accessible medical system.

Hon. Gerald Ducharme (Minister responsible for Seniors):  Yes, I was consulted.  I think the Minister of Health explained it very well.  When there is a health problem, it will be dealt with in the usual manner, and that was very well explained by the Health minister.

 

Health Care System

Deinsurance ‑ Impacted Wisdom Teeth

 

Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The Maples):  Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

      The minister has signed an Order‑in‑Council, and it does clearly indicate that some of the services will not be insured. Those services will not be covered by anesthesia coverage also. As the minister would know, there is a major case in Ontario where an inquest is going on about a possible case where the death occurred outside the hospital.  Mr. Speaker, it is a very serious matter.

      The minister should tell us:  Has he had enough consultation process to make sure that the procedures which are going to be done because of this Order‑in‑Council are not a serious risk to any given person?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, since my honourable friend has the Order‑in‑Council with the attached regulations, he will find in those regulations a significant amount of underpinning which would define medical circumstances under which impacted wisdom teeth removal would be insured in the hospital system.  There are a number of medical circumstances outside of the condition of the teeth, per se, which would qualify and keep that removal of wisdom teeth insured and delivered in the hospital.  It is the asymptomatic removal, where there is not a demonstrated medical need for hospitalization, that is not being covered.

      I simply say to my honourable friend that the kind of circumstance that happened in Ontario‑‑I cannot prejudge the findings of the inquest‑‑but should that, for instance, have been caused by a medical condition of the patient, I think the regulations that were passed provide the kind of protection so that will not happen in Manitoba.

Mr. Cheema:  Mr. Speaker, the issue is the safety of the patient.  If the procedures are done, because of this regulation, outside the hospital, it will expose them to unwarranted risk.

      Can the minister tell us:  Has he had any consultation?  Can he table his consultation in this House so that patients can have some sense of relief that everything possible was done before this decision was made?

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Mr. Orchard:  Mr. Speaker, I have already dealt with the issue of consultation.  I will openly say that the MDA did not agree with the final regulation because it does have an impact on practice patterns of some of their membership, and I understand that.

      Mr. Speaker, the key issue my honourable friend raised was the assurance of safe care to the patients.  We are talking asymptomatic; in other words, no indicated health problem with the wisdom teeth to be removed.  In the past, the removal of those teeth, which, if there is no medical problem, has always been the responsibility of the individual to pay either through their private insurance or through their own resources, has from time to time been undertaken in the hospital system, so that the taxpayer pays for it, when there is no medical necessity for that removal to take place in the hospital.

      What we are doing is assuring that needed medical removals of impacted wisdom teeth are undertaken in the hospital to assure that patient's safety; others will not be paid for by the taxpayers when there is not the demonstrated medical necessity.

Mr. Cheema:  Mr. Speaker, the question still remains the safety of the patient when the patients are going to be served outside the hospital system and with a general anesthesia or any other form of anesthesia that will expose them to unwarranted risk.

      The question is:  Can the minister tell us how he can assure that such incidents as occurred in Ontario‑‑a very, very major tragic incident, a young boy died.  Mr. Speaker, we want the minister to tell us why he has taken such a drastic stand without proper consultation.

Mr. Orchard:  First of all, Mr. Speaker, I reject my honourable friend's allegation "without proper consultation."  We did have consultation going back to last summer with the Manitoba Dental Association.  We agreed to disagree on some parts of the procedure.

      Let my honourable friend not mislead the people of Manitoba that we are putting into medical compromise any person having asymptomatic, without medical indication, removal of wisdom teeth, Mr. Speaker.  The issue is that medically required removal of those wisdom teeth will take place in hospitals as medically required with the preconditions that the regulations have put in place to assure that other medical circumstances of the patient‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

 

Furnace Inspections

Carbon Monoxide Levels

 

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood):  Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Health.

      As the minister is aware, health concerns due to faulty furnaces are mounting.  In fact, many people such as Dan and Linda Welsh, who have suffered headaches, rashes and nausea over the past year, finally were told that they were at acceptable limits of carbon monoxide.

      Since the written results are now available and show that they are well over the acceptable limits, can the minister investigate why the testing in this particular case took so long and why they were told wrongly on Friday that they had nothing to worry about?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, without accepting some of the preamble and allegations, I will investigate the role that my ministry had in this issue.  The primary role has been undertaken through the Department of Labour, and I will provide my honourable friend with as much information as I can.

Mr. Maloway:  Mr. Speaker, I just received a message a minute ago that in Landmark a furnace was shut down, and it had very high, top‑level carbon monoxide figures.

      My question to the minister is:  Are people whose furnaces are being condemned, such as this person in Landmark, being told to immediately take blood tests?  How many other cases of carbon monoxide poisoning that exceed acceptable limits has this minister's department heard from in the past month?

Mr. Orchard:  Mr. Speaker, I am, as you might expect, unable to respond to the last‑minute information of a furnace in Landmark that my honourable friend refers to.

      However, Mr. Speaker, I think quite possibly what my honourable friend is trying to accomplish is a greater public awareness of the issue of the gas furnaces, apparently made by one manufacturer in Alberta, which as I understand it, through metal fatigue, have furnaces which operate dangerously.

      I think, if my honourable friend is trying to raise public awareness of individuals in Manitoba who have those furnaces, that brand of furnace, that they ought to investigate and access whatever resources available to investigate, I suggest, Sir, that my honourable friend is serving the public of Manitoba well because certainly that is what we have been trying to do on this side of the House.

Mr. Maloway:  Mr. Speaker, if the minister would simply check with the member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson), who sits right behind him, he would tell him that he was informed last Friday of the situation in Landmark‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  Question, please.

 

Furnace Inspections

Faulty Heat Exchangers

 

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood):  Mr. Speaker, my final supplementary, since I am not getting answers from this minister, is to the Acting Minister of Labour.

      I would like to ask the Acting Minister of Labour:  How many brands of furnaces, other than Flame‑Master, have been found to have cracked heat exchangers?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Acting Minister of Labour):  Mr. Speaker, as acting minister, I will take that question as notice, and I am sure that the minister will be more than willing to respond with any information.

 

Federal Trade Tribunal

Manitoba Cabinetmakers

 

Mr. Reg Alcock (Osborne):  Mr. Speaker, to the Acting Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism, as a result of an unequal application of federal tax policy, three Winnipeg cabinetmakers have been denied over half a million dollars in rebates which other cabinetmakers in this country have been paid.

      The federal Trade Tribunal has ruled in favour of these three cabinetmakers, but still the federal government is refusing to rebate the funds to them.

      I would like to ask the Acting Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism whether or not they have made any representations on behalf of these three businesses in Manitoba.

Hon. Jim Ernst (Acting Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of the specifics of the matter, but I will certainly take that information back to the minister and have him provide an answer in due course.

 

Federal Trade Tribunal

Manitoba Cabinetmakers

 

Mr. Reg Alcock (Osborne):  Mr. Speaker, perhaps I could ask the Premier the same question.

      Has the Premier or his office made any representations on behalf of these three Manitoba businesses that are out over half a million dollars?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, that matter, I know, has been reviewed by a number of people in this government.  It is a matter that has been referred to the Department of Finance, with respect to looking at the decision that was made by that tribunal and in attempting to determine whether or not there is a role to be played by this government.  To my knowledge, no decision has been made on that matter.

Mr. Alcock:  Mr. Speaker, is it possible to let these people know when a decision will be made?  Can the Premier tell us when his government will come to some sort of decision, or whether or not they are prepared to assist these three people who, it has now been proven, are out over half a million dollars?

Mr. Filmon:  When the review has been completed, Mr. Speaker.

 

Seniors Housing ‑ Power Street

Lounge Repair

 

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas):  Mr. Speaker, we hear in this Chamber the rhetoric and the discussions about seniors, how important their programs are and how committed the government is to help the seniors and on and on and on.

      At 145 Powers Street, which is a seniors block, they had a fire in November of 1991.  They lost their lounge, which is very important to seniors to pass away their leisure, retirement time, to play pool and play cards.  That fire destroyed that lounge in November, and to this day nothing has been done.  I would like to ask the Minister of Housing why.

Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Housing):  Mr. Speaker, first of all let me correct the record.  The lounge was not destroyed.  There was an arson that took place at that building.  The ceiling of the lounge was destroyed.  The ceiling has not yet been replaced.

      When the matter was brought to my attention about a week ago, I made significant inquiries in my department as to why it has not been repaired, and I concur with the honourable member, it should have been.

 

Seniors Housing ‑ Power Street

Lounge Repair

 

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas):  Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the next question to the Minister responsible for Seniors.

      I think that is the same minister who deindexed the 55 Plus; now he has the opportunity to stand up for the seniors and get something done because the lounge is very, very important to the seniors.

      Will he now consult with the minister to get immediate action?

Hon. Gerald Ducharme (Minister responsible for Seniors):  To the member who did not deindex the pension plan over there, for over 10 years they did not increase the 55 Plus.

      To the member, there goes to show, it was this Premier of this province who established the Seniors Directorate.  I consulted with the member from Housing in consultation with the Powers seniors home.  It is because of that that the minister has answered that it will be repaired, and he has asked his staff to quickly do that.

 

Seniors Housing

Security Systems

 

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas):  Mr. Speaker, my third question is to the same Minister responsible for Seniors.

      Security is a great concern for all seniors in Winnipeg.  I would like to ask the minister if he has done a tour of the seniors blocks to ensure that proper security measures are in place.

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Hon. Gerald Ducharme (Minister responsible for Seniors):  Mr. Speaker, I have toured blocks, seniors accommodations throughout the province, and there are different security problems throughout that area.  I will continue to review all those blocks.

      Mr. Speaker, there are 20,000 units throughout the province to review.

 

Decentralization

Selkirk, Manitoba

 

Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk):  My questions are for the Minister responsible for Decentralization.

      In the past two budgets, this government has cut over 25 Civil Service jobs in Selkirk with the closure of the school of nursing and the Human Resources Opportunity Centre.  Fortunately, we were able to stop plans to move 25 Highways jobs from Selkirk to Beausejour.  Unfortunately, it now appears that the government is once again considering such a move.

      Will the Minister responsible for Decentralization (Mr. Downey) assure this House that he will forcibly argue with his cabinet colleagues to stop Selkirk from losing any more Civil Service jobs?

Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development):  Mr. Speaker, I would have to say that to this point in time, this government has decentralized somewhere in the neighbourhood of 500 Civil Service positions to various rural locations in Manitoba.  That certainly has not been an easy task, but it has been done through a thoughtful, co‑ordinated process.

      Mr. Speaker, let me say that it is up to each and every department to assess the requirements for staffing within their departments, and those decisions have to be made by those departments.  Where possible, we are trying to accommodate communities with decentralization moves.  There are still over 100 positions that have to be decentralized, and certainly we will be working as diligently as we can to ensure that our commitment is maintained.

 

Decentralization

Selkirk, Manitoba

 

Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk):  My question is for the Minister of Highways.

      Is Selkirk going to lose 25 Highways jobs to Beausejour?

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Highways and Transportation): Mr. Speaker, within my department, for the past four years, we have had ongoing reviews of how we deliver our highway program through the province, and that is a continuing process that is going on right now.  I cannot give the member an indication whether there is going to be any changes in Selkirk at this time or not.

      I want to indicate that we are looking at regionalizing to some degree.  We are looking at the concept of regionalizing to be able to deliver a better service to Manitobans.