LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Friday, May 8, 1992

The House met at 10 a.m.

PRAYERS

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES

Mr. Bob Rose (Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the Fourth Report of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources.

Mr. Clerk (William Remnant): Your Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources presents the following as its Fourth Report.

Your Standing Committee met on Tuesday, November 13, 1990, at 10 a.m., in Room 255 of the Legislative Building to consider the Annual Report of the Manitoba Hazardous Waste Management Corporation for the year ended December 31, 1989. Your committee also met on Thursday, May 7, 1992, at 10 a.m., in Room 255 of the Legislative Building to consider the Annual Reports of the Manitoba Hazardous Waste Management Corporation for the years ended December 31, 1989, December 31, 1990 and December 31, 1991.

At the November 13, 1990, meeting, Mr. Rick Cooke, president and chief executive officer, and Mr. Don Vernon, chairperson, provided such information as was requested with respect to the 1989 Annual Report and business of the Manitoba Hazardous Waste Management Corporation.

At the May 7, 1992, meeting, Mr. Rick Cooke, president, provided such information as was requested with respect to the 1989, 1990 and 1991 Annual Reports and business of the Manitoba Hazardous Waste Management Corporation.

Your committee has considered the Annual Reports of the Manitoba Hazardous Waste Management Corporation for the years ended December 31, 1989, December 31, 1990, and December 31, 1991, and has adopted the same as presented.

All of which is respectfully submitted.

Mr. Rose: I move, seconded by the honourable member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau), that the report of the committee be received.

Motion agreed to.

Mr. Jack Reimer (Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Economic Development): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the Sixth Report of the Standing Committee on Economic Development.

Mr. Clerk: Your Standing Committee on Economic Development presents the following as their Sixth Report.

Your committee met on Thursday, May 7, 1992, at 10 a.m., in Room 254 of the Legislative Building to consider the Annual Reports for Manitoba Mineral Resources Ltd. for the fiscal years ending December 31, 1990 and 1991.

Mr. Jim Clarke, chairperson; Mr. Malcolm Wright, president; Mr. Neil Briggs, vice‑president; and Mr. Cyril Vickers, secretary provided such information as was requested with respect to the Annual Reports and business of Manitoba Mineral Resources Ltd.

Your committee has considered the Annual Reports for Manitoba Mineral Resources for the fiscal years ending December 31, 1990 and 1991, and has adopted the same as presented.

All of which is respectfully submitted.

Mr. Reimer: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Rose), that the report of the committee be received.

Motion agreed to.

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TABLING OF REPORTS

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present the 1991 Annual Report of the Public Utilities Board.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

Bill 83‑The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (3)

Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (St. Norbert): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Connery), that Bill 83, The Highway Traffic Amendment Act (3); Loi no 3 modifiant le Code de la route, be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.

Motion agreed to.

Bill 85‑The Labour Relations Amendment Act

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Labour): Mr. Speaker, I would move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns), that Bill 85, The Labour Relations Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur les relations du travail, be introduced and that same be now received and read a first time.

Motion agreed to.

Introduction of Guests

Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the loge to my right, where we have with us this morning, Mr. Noble Villeneuve, who is the MPP for Stormont, Dundas, and Glengarry.

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here this morning.

Also with us this morning, we have seated in the Public Gallery from Red River Community College, 50 English language students under the direction of Gail Ross and Alice Landry. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Point Douglas (Mr. Hickes).

On behalf of all members, I welcome you here this morning.

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

Economic Growth Employment Statistics

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Last Friday statistics were produced by Statistics Canada showing Manitoba in last place in terms of the decline in gross domestic product, which is a measure of all economic factors in our Canadian economy. Today, again, the unemployment statistics have been released by Statistics Canada. We have seen a marginal decline in unemployment in the province of Manitoba from 9.9 percent on a seasonally adjusted basis to 9.6 percent.

Mr. Speaker, we have also seen the decline in massive numbers of the number of people employed in full‑time jobs in the province of Manitoba. Some 17,000 full‑time jobs have been lost in the province of Manitoba from April of 1991 to April of 1992. These numbers are both in male and female workers in the Manitoba economy; the part‑time employment is constant.

I would like to ask the Premier, as the chair of the Economic Development Committee of Cabinet: Can he please advise us how we have lost and where we have lost 17,000 full‑time jobs in the Manitoba economy in the last 12 months?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): I know that the Leader of the Opposition enjoys doom and gloom and enjoys putting the most negative face on Manitoba that he possibly can. I know that most Manitobans do not take the negative view that he does of our province and are not gleeful about the loss of employment. We believe it is a serious issue; we believe it is an issue that requires all of our efforts. It is the reason why the Economic Development Board was formed last fall so that we could concentrate our major efforts of this government on job creation and new opportunities.

Since that point in time, we have had announcements, for instance, of the transference later this year of two‑wheel‑drive tractor manufacturing from Ghent, Belgium to Winnipeg by Versatile, a major shot in the arm for manufacturing in Manitoba that will take place later this year. We also had the announcement that Boeing will be having their 777 component parts, their newest and latest most modern jet airliner component parts being made at the Boeing plant here in Manitoba. Since that time, we have Apotex announcing a $50‑million investment with 100 full‑time jobs, pharmaceutical manufacturing, a new high‑tech industry in that field for Manitoba.

These are the things that we are working on as a government, because we believe in the ability of Manitoba to compete with the world, and we believe in the ability of Manitoba to come forward with a stronger more diversified economy than we have ever had before. Those are the ways in which we are working to solve that problem.

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Yes, Mr. Speaker, we know that we are the third best unemployment rate amongst the provinces today. We know that is not good enough. We know that we have to keep working to ensure that we attract new investment, new job creation. We have done that in a variety of ways by setting a more competitive tax regime, five straight budgets with no major increases in taxes. We will compare that record to any province in the country, and that is the way we are moving to create the opportunities for new investment, new employment opportunities and new long‑term growth for this province.

Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, in the scripts that were written for the Premier, unfortunately, his staff did not provide the bottom line numbers in manufacturing, because a year ago there were 56,000 people working in Manitoba in manufacturing. Today, there are 51,000 people, according to Statistics Canada. So the bottom line of the rhetoric of the Premier is, there has been almost a 10 percent decline in the number of people working in manufacturing over the last 12 months under this Premier's so‑called leadership.

Mr. Speaker, I asked the Premier a question about why we have lost 17,000 jobs, and the reason is that 14,000 people have dropped out of the labour force in the last 12 months in this province, 14,000 people have quit looking for work and do not show up in the unemployment percentage. That is the reason why we have 17,000 people less working than a year ago. That is the reason. These people are in the food banks. They are in the welfare areas. They are rising every day.

I would ask the Premier, we have had a drop out in the labour force statistics of a half a percent, nationally, through the national recession. In Manitoba, the dropout rate right now is 2.6 percent, five times greater than the national average. Why are Manitobans giving up looking for work?‑‑five times greater than the national average in the statistics that were produced today in Statistics Canada.

Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, I might say that the statistics that were provided indicate that there was a reduction in the labour force in every single province in this country in that same reporting period. This is not anything that is a phenomenon to Manitoba. This is happening right across the country.

I might say, on a year‑to‑date basis for the first four months of this year, January, February, March and April, that Ontario has lost in manufacturing employment in that period of time, some 66,000 jobs. They have dropped overall 7.5 percent of their entire manufacturing force during that period of time. We are not happy with that, Mr. Speaker. That is not good for anybody in this country. The fact of the matter is, that is not good for anybody in this country, and we do not want that to carry on, so we, in Manitoba, are taking steps to turn that around.

That is why Medox corporation have come to Manitoba from London, England to set up manufacturing of health care products. That is why Trimel pharmaceuticals are setting up their plant in Steinbach, well under way, almost completed. That is why Apotex are making a $50‑million investment in Manitoba. That is why we have the company in Morden that is doing oxygen concentrators to be supplied to hospitals throughout the world, 3M in Morden, expanding substantially, doubling their capacity, $10 million investment and so on. Those are the things that we believe are important to do, to set up to attract the new industries and the new investment. We are doing that.

The Economic Development Board is very conscious not only of the need to revitalize our economic base but to diversify into areas that we have never had before. We believe that progress is being made. We believe there is more work to be done. We are going to be working very, very hard to ensure that is our No. 1 priority in Manitoba's future.

Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, the Premier talks about Ontario. First of all, Manitoba was in last place in economic performance in 1991, last place. He talks about Ontario. There has been a decline in employment in Ontario. It is 1.6 percent. We had 3.5 percent, double the decline in Manitoba than we have in Ontario.

My question to the Premier is‑‑and he has not answered the question. There is a .5 percent decline in the number of people in our labour force in Canada with this national recession. We have five times that amount in the province of Manitoba. Now, we know that in the private sector Manitoba was last in capital investment, second last in manufacturing investment, last in residential investment, in 1991.

Can the Premier please advise Manitobans why the despair rate in Manitoba is higher and five times greater than the national average? Why are people quitting looking for work in this province if there is this so‑called economic opportunity?

Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition, as I have said throughout the last 10 days or so, is concentrating on the past. What he has to do is concentrate on the projections for the future.

Since the 1st of April we have had three forecasts from three separate banks, all of whom are saying that Manitoba economic growth for '92, '93, '94 will be in the top four provinces in the country. We had, of course, Statistics Canada saying that our manufacturing capital investment will increase by over 30 percent, the highest increase of any province in the country in 1992. Statistics Canada says the overall capital investment in this province, public and private, will rise at the highest level of any province in the country in 1992. That is because of the policies that we have put in place. That is because of the fact that our policies of no increase in major taxes, of keeping our deficit down is setting the economic base for recovery to be better than most of the provinces in this country.

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Tantalum Mining Corporation

Employment Protection

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon): Mr. Speaker, I think Manitobans realize that this province has been on a toboggan ride downhill since this government took office.

Nowhere has it been worse than in northern Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, three communities have closed down since this Premier took office. Yesterday, at the Public Utilities and Natural Resources Standing Committee meeting, Manitoba Mineral Resources president indicated that 110 jobs at the Tantalum Mining operation in Lac du Bonnet, and the member for Lac du Bonnet's area, are in jeopardy‑‑110 jobs.

I am wondering if the Minister of Energy and Mines can tell us when the province knew that this operation was in jeopardy and what it has done. What is it doing to protect the 110 mining jobs that exist in that operation?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Energy and Mines): Mr. Speaker, I was at the same meeting that the member for Flin Flon was at and I in no way got the reflection that he got, that there were any jobs in jeopardy from the president of MMR. I would hope that he would come to this Legislative Assembly with the truth once, so that he does not leave false impressions with the people of Manitoba.

Mr. Speaker, there is no truth to what the member puts on the record. There is work being done there in a responsible manner by MMR and the companies involved.

Mr. Storie: Mr. Speaker, I have spoken to representatives from the community who say that the minister is dead wrong.

Contract Negotiations

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon): My question is to Minister of Energy and Mines. Can the minister explain how, after being told at committee by the president of MMR, that they have no contracts for the sale of tantalum after June 1992, that there is no problem?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Energy and Mines): Mr. Speaker, if I remember correctly, what was said by the president of MMR is that he did not feel it was appropriate to put information as it related to negotiations with the product from that mine. He did not say that there were not going to be sales. ‑‑[interjection] They had no contracts, but he said because of the‑‑the member is happy that they do not have contracts and there could be difficulty. That is where they get their satisfaction, is at the misery of people. Shame on them!

What I am saying, Mr. Speaker, is that the president of MMR said because of the negotiations he did not feel it appropriate to put it on the public record.

Employment Protection

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon): Mr. Speaker, members on this side are happy the government finally acknowledged, after denying it in the first question, that there are problems. No contract after June could constitute a problem. The workers out there believe there is a problem.

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Energy and Mines. Can the Minister of Energy and Mines tell me what he has done to protect these 110 jobs in Lac du Bonnet at the Tantalum Mining Corporation, what he intends to do, to make sure that those jobs remain, the few mining jobs that are left?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Energy and Mines): Mr. Speaker, I can assure the member that MMR, through its board of directors and through its management, the president, and those people who have had the responsibility for years for MMR, are carrying out their activities responsibly, working to obtain longer‑term contracts, and to ensure jobs.

In fact, Mr. Speaker, I would encourage him to expand the opportunities in those communities which may take place as well.

Economic Growth

Employment Statistics

Mr. Reg Alcock (Osborne): Mr. Speaker, as we have been talking about the economy in this province, the government has taken to blaming it on the recession, blaming the drop in this province on the recession. I would like to just make the Premier aware of a couple of numbers. Between the day this government took office and today, there have been 47,000 jobs lost; actual employment has gone down by 47,000 jobs in this country. In Manitoba it has gone down by 11,000.

I would like to ask the Premier this question: Why has 23 percent of the job losses in this country been sustained by a province that has only 4 percent of the population?

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Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I guess the representative of the Liberal Party is not aware of the various elements of our economy. He is not aware, for instance, that one of the major elements of our economy is agriculture and that agriculture has sustained tremendous losses as a result of an international grain trade war that has depressed prices to levels in real terms that last year were lower than they had been in their history, that saw the real income of farmers down to one‑quarter what it had been a decade ago and so on.

The Liberal Party, of course, has no knowledge of the agricultural sector of our economy, and so he is unaware of it, but perhaps when he runs for the federal parliament, he will do a little research to bring himself up to speed and broaden his horizons, Mr. Speaker.

The Liberal Party is also not aware of the effect of depressed prices in the mining industry, how that affects mining production and mining employment in this province, Mr. Speaker. He may want to do some research when he runs for parliament on that because mining is a key sector of the Manitoba economy.

The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that there is a recession. It is worldwide. It affects Europe; it affects Japan; it affects the United States, and it affects every single province in this country. The difference is that this province is putting in place policies to ensure that there will economic investment and growth in this province.

This province is not doing what New Democratic and Liberal provinces are doing by jacking up the deficit and jacking up the taxes to discourage further growth and investment in their province. This province is attracting investment in new areas, in high technology areas, in aerospace, in medical products, in pharmaceuticals, in all of those new growth areas for the future because we believe in the ability of Manitobans to attract investment and growth in those new areas, and we believe that Manitobans will respond positively with new opportunities, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Alcock: Mr. Speaker, the difference is that 4 percent of the population of this country is sustaining 23 percent of the job losses under this Premier. That is the difference.

Mr. Speaker, another impact of the recession has been the conversion of full‑time jobs to part‑time jobs. In Canada, full‑time jobs as a proportion of the total labour force fell 1.79 percent. In Manitoba, they fell 5.84 percent. If we were just doing as well as the rest of the country, we would have 16,000 more full‑time jobs in this province.

I would like to ask the Premier a very simple question: Why?

Mr. Filmon: I would like to keep the answer simple so that the member could understand it, Mr. Speaker, but it is a complex issue. The issue is that there are world forces at play here, world forces that affect the income of our entire agriculture community, world forces that affect the price of base metals and the mining industry, world forces that have caused a recession that has damaged badly the countries that are the greatest consumers of the goods that we produce and export in this province, as well as this country.

There is a recession that has hurt every province, every single province in this country, but this province has taken steps to ensure that when the recession is over, we will be a prime place for investment, job creation and growth. This province, for five straight budgets, has not increased the major taxes. This province, for five straight budgets, has kept the deficit down. This province has ensured that there is a climate here for investment in new opportunities. That is why Trimel is here; that is why Medox is here; that is why Apotex has made the investment here. That is why we have the two‑wheel‑drive tractor operations manufacturer being transferred from Belgium to Winnipeg. That is why the 777 parts for Boeing are being made here in Winnipeg.

Those are the good things that are happening, and I would say that as an individual who intends to run for parliament, I would hope that this member would have a much more positive view of Manitoba and Manitoba's opportunities.

Mr. Alcock: Well, Mr. Speaker, one day the Premier will say, well, it is the recession and it is affecting everybody. Now he is saying, well, no, it is just impacting Manitoba‑‑4 percent of the population, 23 percent of the job losses in this country.

Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for Osborne, put your question.

An Honourable Member: Why are we in last place?

Mr. Alcock: Why are we so far behind is an excellent question. Why is it that if we had the same proportion of the labour force in Canada‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. Filmon: As I have said, the important thing is to look at what the economic forecasts are for this province. Three banks have recently upgraded their forecasts for this year since the month of April. All three banks are suggesting that in‑‑[interjection]

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Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Osborne has put his question already, and the honourable First Minister is attempting to respond.

Mr. Filmon: All three banks are suggesting that for 1992, 1993 and 1994, this province will have growth rates that are in the top four provinces in the country. Statistics Canada is suggesting that we will have over a 30 percent increase in manufacturing capital investment. Statistics Canada is suggesting that this province will have the highest growth rate of private and public capital investment of any province in the country. Everyone of those forecasters is saying that we have done the right things, that we have put in place the opportunity for investment and growth in job creations that will exceed the other provinces in the country. Now, Mr. Speaker, we believe that is good news for Manitobans.

Health Care Facilities

Bed Closures

Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (St. Johns): Mr. Speaker, the news yesterday of 150 bed cuts at St. Boniface General Hospital is creating understandable concern among patients and, given today's labour force statistics, justifiable anxiety among hospital staff. Yesterday, the Minister of Health said, as he keeps saying, that he is not reponsible for specific bed cuts. Also yesterday, the Health Sciences president Rod Thorfinnson said there is a government formula identifying 240 beds to be transferred or closed at the two teaching hospitals.

Mr. Speaker, my question is: Who is telling the truth?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, not my honourable friend.

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis: Thank you. Another question on this very serious matter, Mr. Speaker. Who do we believe, the hospital administrators at Health Sciences Centre and St. Boniface who say the bed cuts are up to the Health ministry, or do we believe the Minister of Health who says bed cuts are up to individual hospitals? Who is telling the truth?

Mr. Orchard: Mr. Speaker, as we have discussed in Health Estimates for a sizable portion of the last 52 hours, there is a budgeting process of government wherein we established for the hospitals the level of budgeting that we anticipate to be available this year. In the case of Manitoba's budget this year, we are budgeting for $53 million more in hospital funding this year over last. That is part of $102 million overall increase to Health department spending this year over last year.

Now, within the process of spending $53 million more, hospitals in the province of Manitoba this year are expected to spend almost $950 million, an increase of $53 million over what we expected to spend last year. In the course of developing plans in terms of operating with $950 million of expenditure, each hospital is currently developing their operational plans for presentation to government.

When those plans are presented, decisions are accepted and announced that that is when my honourable friend will have her answer as to how the hospital system, the health care system, in Manitoba will operate over the next 12 months, in two years and 10 years.

Ms. Wasylycia‑Leis: What do we believe, the Minister of Health saying he cannot account for discussions of hospital boards about bed closures, or the president of Health Sciences Centre, Mr. Thorfinnson, saying‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Question.

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis: ‑‑there is agreement dictating that only the Health Minister Don Orchard can make announcements?

Mr. Orchard: Mr. Speaker, my honourable friend is concerned one day that we study too much, the next day that we do not decide. I am a little confused as to where my honourable friend comes from.

Mr. Speaker, let me just indicate to my honourable friend that the budgeting process in Manitoba is a much more informed consultative process than any other province. In the province of Manitoba, health care providers can look forward to over $100 million of increased spending to serve needed health care provision of service in the province of Manitoba.

I will contrast the $102 million increase in budget in the province of Manitoba anytime with the reported reduction in spending in Saskatchewan of $45 million. How does my honourable friend square that NDP policy?

Social Assistance

Off-Reserve Status Indians

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Family Services.

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In response to my question on social assistance for off‑reserve Status Indians, the Minister of Family Services stated on April 21 and as reported in Hansard on page 2358, and I am quoting, Mr. Speaker: "We have been dealing with the federal minister responsible, Minister Siddon, on this. . . . We are still in discussions with the federal government. . . . We are continuing our dialogue with the federal government . . ."

Has the Minister of Family Services received the letter from Mr. Siddon, the Minister of Indian Affairs, dated May 1, 1992, wherein the federal minister states: "As you know, there are currently no discussions on this issue; . . . The Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, in accordance with a federal Cabinet decision, has terminated payment for off‑reserve social assistance as of April 1, 1992."

I will table that letter, Mr. Speaker.

My question to the minister is: Why is the Minister of Family Services continuing to mislead this Legislature and the municipalities of Manitoba, pretending there are discussions ongoing when this is not the case?

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Family Services): Mr. Speaker, the member for Brandon East is correct in that we are in dispute with the federal government over this issue. If we were to follow the lead of the member for Brandon East, we would simply give in and pay the money. We do not accept this decision, and we are continuing this dispute with the federal government with the support of many Manitobans, including the Union of Manitoba Municipalities, who have just written to the federal minister on April 30 indicating their support for us.

It says: The UMM is in support of the position taken by the Department of Family Services of Manitoba that this is a federal responsibility.

That has been our position for the last year; that continues to be our position, and I regret the member for Brandon East and his caucus feel that this is not an issue anymore and that simply Manitoba should pay. This has an impact of $17 million on the taxpayers of Manitoba. That is a decision we do not accept.

Mr. Leonard Evans: Mr. Speaker, there are many municipal leaders, including the mayor of Brandon, who have threatened to sue this government for its position on this matter.

Will this minister acknowledge that Mr. Siddon, the federal minister, stated in that same letter that he is concerned that municipalities are being drawn into a federal‑provincial debate and those municipalities may face financial problems if the province persists in advising the municipalities to continue billing the Department of Indian Affairs?

Mr. Gilleshammer: Mr. Speaker, I agree that the municipalities are being drawn in here, because they realize the impact on Manitoba of this decision. They are supportive of the department of the government and the stand we have taken with the federal government, and they are supporting us.

I would ask that the NDP maybe reconsider their position. They have flip‑flopped from supporting us when I made my statement in the House back in the early part of last year. Now they are simply saying we should cave in to the federal government and flow this money. We do not accept that. We are in dispute with them, and we are going to continue to try and resolve this. We do have the support of UMM on this issue.

Mr. Leonard Evans: Mr. Speaker, there is a great deal of apprehension among municipal leaders in this province because of the attitude and position of this government.

Will the City of Brandon, to use one example, be stuck with a bill for many thousands of dollars? We are paying out $25,000 a month for making payments to off‑reserve Status Indians for which Ottawa will not reimburse them. Will the province, specifically‑‑and I wish I would get an answer from this minister, Mr. Speaker, for a change‑‑will the Province of Manitoba reimburse the City of Brandon as required under social allowance legislation for the money that they are now spending for this category of welfare recipient?

Mr. Gilleshammer: Mr. Speaker, the City of Brandon‑‑and I have discussed this with Mayor Borotsik, who is well aware of the position we have taken on this‑‑supports us in this position. We have indicated to the mayor and through him to the council that we are in dispute with the federal government. They have indicated by resolution that they have given the parties some 90 days to get this resolved. We have their support on this and some of the initiatives that we have taken to resolve this are ongoing. I would suggest to the member for Brandon East that perhaps he and his caucus should reconsider their stand on this and give us the support that was there a year ago.

Foster Care

Parental Training Program

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr. Speaker, over a week ago, a five‑year‑old boy in foster care lost his life. That death is being investigated by the Department of Family Services, but what it has uncovered is a number of very serious deficiencies within the foster care system. Number one of those deficiencies is the lack of training for foster parents, often dealing with very troubled children.

Can the minister explain to this House why we have a training program required by at least two‑thirds of the staff at child care centres, but we have no compulsory training program for foster parents in the province of Manitoba?

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Family Services): Mr. Speaker, the delivery of foster care in Manitoba is the responsibility of the various Child and Family Service agencies and the regions. The department sets certain standards and the agencies are responsible for the recruitment and the monitoring of those foster homes. The Manitoba Foster Family Association receives some $323,000 from the government of Manitoba and a good portion of that, approximately $250,000 of that grant, is for training and support of foster parents. So there are three parties involved in this process, the agencies who have the responsibility for the delivery of foster care, the government that sets the standards, and the Manitoba Foster Family Association which works with the agencies and with the government to deliver that training.

The training is an ongoing process, and as new foster families come onto the scene, it is the responsibility of the agency to give orientation to those foster families. It is an ongoing process and a challenge that, I think, not only faces the department but the agencies and the Foster Family Association to provide that adequate training.

Mrs. Carstairs: Mr. Speaker, the words that the minister uttered which is that the government sets the standards are the fundamental words. This government does set the standards, and one standard that does not exist is the compulsory training of foster parents. Foster parents frequently have children put in their care long before they have even begun a training program or an orientation program because of such a desperate need for foster parents. Mr. Speaker, why is this government unwilling to set a standard in the province of Manitoba that will ensure training prior to placement of foster children?

Mr. Gilleshammer: Those standards are there, and it is the agencies' responsibility to meet with foster families and provide that orientation and that training. As well, agencies are required to do a monthly visit at the foster home to see that the match that has been put in place is working.

As well, we have brought forward a plan called the Structured Care Continuum that is currently being implemented with foster families, whereby, when it is fully implemented, the foster parents with the abilities to deal with the most difficult children will be matched with children who have those difficulties.

This Structured Care Continuum was introduced last year. There is some ongoing training with foster families and discussions between the department and the Foster Family Association in bringing this Structured Care Continuum into place.

Standards Review

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr. Speaker, the minister does not even know his own standards. It is not a monthly visit that is required. It is a visit every two months, and that standard is not met. In most foster‑parenting situations that standard is not met. All he has to do is talk with child care workers and he will know that they have caseloads so high that they cannot possibly visit foster parents in their homes once every two months.

Will the minister examine his own standards to ensure that there is appropriate care delivery in our community so that tragic events such as the one which occurred some 10 days ago will be averted?

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Family Services): I repeat for the member that the standards and the responsibilities for the foster homes lie with the agencies. We did discuss this in Estimates some few weeks ago. The member also knows from that Estimates process that an additional $700,000 has been put into the budget to work with agencies on the issue of workload relief.

Manitoba Housing Authority

Staffing ‑ Dauphin, Manitoba

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): Mr. Speaker, last week, the Minister of Housing (Mr. Ernst), in response to my questions, stated in this House that everything was going according to the plans that were put in place according to the Civil Service procedures with regard to staffing procedures in the Dauphin Housing Authority, and that things were going to go along fine there. I want to know if that is the case.

To the Acting Minister of Housing: Why have experienced personnel such as Judy Hyde been terminated effective May 1, and not even considered for an interview for the position that they were previously holding prior to May 1? Why have these positions been given to inexperienced people who are not involved‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The question has already been put.

Hon. Gerald Ducharme (Acting Minister of Housing): Mr. Speaker, the minister did answer questions in regard to the topic a week ago. I will take it under advisement and get some further update for the member.

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Mr. Plohman: Mr. Speaker, this acting minister was the minister that started this ill‑conceived takeover‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Plohman: Will the acting minister now admit that because of his incompetence and the minister‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. I would remind the honourable member for Dauphin, Beauchesne's Citation 409.(6): "A question must be within the administrative competence of the Government. The Minister to whom the question is directed is responsible to the House for his or her present Ministry and not for any decisions taken in a previous portfolio."

The honourable member for Dauphin, kindly rephrase your question please.

Mr. Plohman: Mr. Speaker, to the acting minister, will the acting minister now admit that hard‑pressed contractors have not been paid since March 15, that bills are stacking up in the Housing office in Dauphin, that rent is not being deposited because no one knows how or where to do it, that caretakers are opening invoices and rent cheques and pinning them to files? There is absolute chaos in this office. Will he now‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.

Mr. Ducharme: Mr. Speaker, I am glad the member for Dauphin, when he was in government, built bridges instead of houses.

I will take the question under advisement for the Minister of Housing (Mr. Ernst).

Manitoba Housing Authority

Staffing ‑ Dauphin, Manitoba

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): I ask the Premier: Will the Premier now admit that his government and minister were ill‑prepared for the transfer of authority from the local housing authorities to the Manitoba Housing Authority, especially with regard to staffing and staff training and procedures? Will he take steps now to order his minister to remedy this situation?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I am confident that the minister responsible will ensure that all of those transitions that are taking place will take place efficiently and effectively and that the saving of $2.5 million to the taxpayer will be achieved.

Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.

Hon. Clayton Manness (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I wonder if I have leave of the House to revert to Introduction of Bills. I would like to introduce two bills, if there is leave of the House to do so.

Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable government House leader have leave to revert to Introduction of Bills? [Agreed]

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

Bill 86‑The Provincial Police Amendment and Consequential Amendments Act

Hon. Clayton Manness (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Environment (Mr. Cummings), on behalf of the Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae), that Bill 86, The Provincial Police Amendment and Consequential Amendments Act (Loi modifiant la Loi sur la Surete du Manitoba et apportant des modifications correlatives a d'autres lois) be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time. His Honour, the Lieutenant‑Governor, having been advised of the contents of this bill, recommends it to the House.

I would also like to table the Lieutenant Governor's message, Mr. Speaker.

Motion agreed to.

Bill 87‑The Law Enforcement Review Amendment Act

Hon. Clayton Manness (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae), I would like to move, seconded by the Minister of the Environment (Mr. Cummings), that Bill 87, The Law Enforcement Review Amendment Act (Loi modifiant la Loi sur les enquetes relatives a l'application de la loi), be introduced and that the same now be received and read a first time.

Motion agreed to.

House Business

Hon. Clayton Manness (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, before I give a call of the bills, I would like to announce‑‑if I can find it‑‑that the Standing Committee of Public Utilities and Natural Resources will sit May 26 to consider the reports of the Manitoba Hydro‑Electric Board, and once I find my paper, I cannot find it right now, I will give specifically the hour of the day.

Mr. Speaker, would you call second readings, Bill 71, to be followed by adjourned debate Bills 22, 49, 72, 10, 15, and 21?

ORDERS OF THE DAY