LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Monday, December 7, 1992

 

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

 

PRAYERS

             

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

             

PRESENTING PETITIONS

 

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood):  Mr. Speaker, I beg to present thepetition of Mona Yvon, Tanis Finney, Darlene Jackson and others,urging the government of Manitoba to pass the necessarylegislation/regulations which will restrict stubble burning inthe province of Manitoba.

             

READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS

 

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourablemember for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux).  It complies with theprivileges and the practices of the House, and it complies withthe rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

            To the Legislature of the province of Manitoba

            WHEREAS each year smoke from stubble burning descends uponthe province of Manitoba; and

            WHEREAS the Parents Support Group of Children with Asthma haslong criticized the harmful effects of stubble burning; and

            WHEREAS the smoke caused from stubble burning is not healthyfor the general public and tends to aggravate the problems ofasthma sufferers and people with chronic lung problems; and

            WHEREAS alternative practices to stubble burning arenecessitated by the fact that the smoke can place some people inlife‑threatening situations; and

            WHEREAS the 1987 Clean Environment Commission Report onPublic Hearings, "Investigation of Smoke Problems fromAgriculture Crop Residue and Peatland Burning," contained therecommendation that a review of the crop residue burningsituation be conducted in five years' time, including are‑examination of the necessity for legislated regulatory control.

            THEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the LegislativeAssembly will urge the government of Manitoba to pass thenecessary legislation/regulations which will restrict stubbleburning in the province of Manitoba.

           

TABLING OF REPORTS

 

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Highways and Transportation):Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the Annual Report for the year1991‑92 for the Department of Highways and Transportation.

           

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

 

Bill 11‑The Regional Waste Management Authorities,

The Municipal Amendment andConsequential Amendments Act

 

Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development):  Mr.Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Agriculture (Mr.Findlay), that Bill 11, The Regional Waste ManagementAuthorities, The Municipal Amendment and Consequential AmendmentsAct (Loi concernant les offices regionaux de gestion des dechets,modifiant la Loi sur les municipalites et apportant desmodifications correlatives a d'autres lois), be introduced andthat the same be now received and read a first time.

 

Motion agreed to.

 

Introduction of Guests

 

Mr. Speaker:  Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attentionof honourable members to the Speaker's Gallery, where we havewith us this afternoon, His Excellency Ignatius Olisemeka, theHigh Commissioner of Nigeria to Canada.

            On behalf of all members, I would like to welcome you herethis afternoon, sir.

            Also with us this afternoon we have seated in the publicgallery, thirty Grade 5 students from the Lavallee School.  Thesestudents are under the direction of Mr. Muzyczka and Mr.Stevens.  This school is located in the constituency of thehonourable Minister of Government Services (Mr. Ducharme).

            Also from the Sisler High School, we have forty‑two Grade 11students under the direction of Mr. Bill Harper.  This school islocated in the constituency of the honourable member for Inkster(Mr. Lamoureux).

            On behalf of all members, I would like to welcome you herethis afternoon.

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

 

Core Area Agreement

Federal Participation

 

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Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, myquestion is to the Premier.  During the election of 1990, thePremier promised during that campaign to renegotiate an innercity core tripartite agreement to build upon the successes of thepast two agreements.  Subsequent to that date in 1990, theMinister of Urban Affairs agreed after the election to extend thedate of the second Core.  Since that time we have heard varyingcomments of optimism, cautious optimism and concern from theprovincial government about the success of the renegotiationswith the federal Conservative government on the Core AreaAgreement.

            Mr. Speaker, in 1991 the Premier himself, who was meeting atthat time again with the Prime Minister, said the matter ofrenewal with the federal government for urban revitalizationcontinues to be a matter of discussion between the two parties.Again Thursday the Premier was meeting with the Prime Minister,and as we understand that was also a matter of discussion betweenthe two Conservative leaders, the provincial Conservative Premierand the federal Prime Minister.

            I would like to ask the Premier today in light of the needfor a third Core Area Agreement, a need that we believe waspassed in terms of extending the date, has the Premier secured atripartite agreement to revitalize and continue to revitalize notonly the physical part of the Core Area Agreement but the humancomponents of our Core Area Agreement?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, the Leader of theOpposition is quite right in saying that was a subject that Icovered with the Prime Minister on Thursday.  In fact, in thediscussion I indicated to him that this had been a matter thathad been open in discussion for more than two years between ourtwo governments.  It is a matter that we believe is very, veryimportant to the city of Winnipeg.  We believe that it isessential that that agreement be renewed for another period oftime.

            We as a province have made our commitment.  In fact, we haveeven indicated to the city that we would go with a bilateralagreement with the City of Winnipeg if no money is forthcomingfrom Ottawa.  It is one of the areas that the Prime Minister hasturned over to his senior staff to get back to us on, and weexpect to hear from them within the not too distant future onthat as well as a number of issues that remain outstanding, andremain a source of irritation between us and the federalgovernment.

Mr. Doer:  Mr. Speaker, I hope that the federal government comesthrough.  I think all Manitobans would not want to see us leftwith a bilateral greement.  In fact, I am quite surprised thePremier would make that statement in the House today, knowingthat the federal government will read his comments and feel nottoo compelled to follow through on this tripartite agreement.They have just potentially saved themselves $35 million overthree years.

            Mr. Speaker, the government chose to extend the 1991 date,and they announced that right after the provincial election inOctober 1990.  We thought at that time that was a negotiatingerror on the part of the province, that they had allowed thefederal government not only to offload by extending the date butthey allowed the federal government to be removed from theculminating deadline of the closing of the Core Area components.

            I ask the Premier:  Now that it was his strategy to extendthe date and his strategy now to say that they are willing to gowith a bilateral agreement, how does he intend to lever thefederal government so that we can get a third Core Area Agreementand that we can get federal money that is absolutely required forthe inner city of this province, the inner city of Winnipeg, bothon a physical basis and on a human basis?

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, there are two things to that question;one is that the Leader of the Opposition is anticipating orassuming that the agreement would be on the same terms andconditions and with the same programs and priorities as previousagreements, and I think that our Minister of Urban Affairs (Mr.Ernst) has already indicated that such would not be the case.  Soa mere continuation of the previous program is not what we arelooking for.

            Secondly, with respect to issues such as going itbilaterally, the reality is that the federal government has doneas it did in renewing the agreement with the previous NDPgovernment, offered reprofiled money and not new money.  We havesome concerns about the fact that the previous governmentaccepted reprofiled money as opposed to getting new money.  Wehave said that if that is all that is on the table, we obviouslydo not need the federal government in it.  They have already gotthat money committed through EIC, through Pathways and otherprograms.  We are looking for new money, and that is why webelieve that it is irrelevant to the bargaining to say that weare committed, along with the city, and we will not let the citydown if the feds do not come in with new money.

 

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Core Area Agreement

Government Priorities

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, the CoreArea Agreement has received international awards for the trainingcomponent of the program, for the Infill Housing Programs, forthe kind of human programs that are contained within the CoreArea Agreement.

            I would like to ask the Premier today, the human investmentthat was featured in both Core I and Core II, the humaninvestment in people as well as the physical investments thattook place in Core I and II, the Forks being one of the notableones in Core II‑‑are the human dimensions and human investmentsnot contained as priorities of the provincial government in athird revitalized Core Agreement?  Can we know from thegovernment today, what are the actual priorities of thisgovernment?  Would they have allowed the federal government toextend the agreement?  They have allowed the federal governmentnot to participate in the third agreement; we have no new federalmoney, as we did in Core I and Core II.  What are the prioritiesof this provincial government, and why are we not succeeding interms of a Core III with the federal Conservative government?

Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Urban Affairs):  Mr. Speaker,certainly the human elements, as the Leader refers to them,contained in past Core Area Agreements have been successful inlarge part.  Things such as the core area training program and soon, I have had an opportunity to be there to see the kind ofpeople who have graduated from those programs, to see thebenefits that the programs have brought to those individuals.  Wewould want to see those kinds of things continue in a futureagreement.

            We are, Mr. Speaker, not tied to any specifics at the moment,because I have publicly committed the government to hold publichearings along with the mayor and hopefully Mr. Epp or whomeveris the senior member of the federal government in order to hearwhat the people of the core area want, what they see as theirpriorities, what they see as the successful programs that werecontained in the Core Area Agreement of the past and what newideas have come forward.  We have some new ideas ourselves, andwe will be unveiling those at the same time so that people havean opportunity to comment on those very excellent programs thatwe have had in the past and on the new ideas that we will bebringing forward in the future.

 

Chris Davis

Wheelchair Purchase

 

Ms. Judy Wasylycia‑Leis (St. Johns):  The situation facing ChrisDavis who has spent five costly and unnecessary months inhospital, who requires this government to purchase a specializedwheelchair in order to live in community and receive care at athird of the cost now being paid by this government andtaxpayers, that situation is unresolved to this moment.  Justbefore Question Period the minister spoke with Chris Davis andasked him the question, what is the hurry?‑‑the company, surely,can be asked not to act so hastily and to delay its decision inmoving the wheelchair out of the country.

            My question to the Minister of Health is, what is his delay?He has known about this situation for five months.  Why not giveChris assurances today that the department will purchase thewheelchair, so that at least one aspect of the community carerequirements of Chris Davis are met and he is cared for?

 

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Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, myhonourable friend makes the case that all we have to do ispurchase a wheelchair, one of 10 in North America, and the issueis resolved.  That is not as simplistic as resolution of thiscircumstance is.

            Mr. Speaker, my honourable friend further alleges that Ipersonally knew of the individual circumstance for five months.I did not, because in many circumstances the Department ofHealth, working with other ministries, attempts to findappropriate community placements for individuals for whomhospital care would be an inappropriate location.  Thisindividual is one of those.

            Mr. Speaker, what we are attempting to do, and this has beenan ongoing process, is to find the most appropriate communityplacement for living to assure that the medical needs which arenot simple medical needs are able to be met for this individualso that placement in other than an acute care hospital can assurethe individual's safety.

            Mr. Speaker, my statement to Chris today was, the issue cameto light on Friday because the supplier of the specializedwheelchair announced on their own initiative that they werepulling the chair by five o'clock on Friday.  I suggested thatwas an inappropriate time line for the supplier to undertakebecause we expect, through co‑operation between the departmentsand with Chris, to resolve this problem, Sir.

 

Ms. Wasylycia‑Leis:  Mr. Speaker, the impossible was morepossible several years ago.

            I would like to ask the Minister of Health how it waspossible for this government several years ago to purchase asimilar wheelchair for someone with similar needs to that ofChris Davis, that person now living and doing very well in Fokushousing.

            Why is it harder now, after this government's health carereform initiative, to move towards cost‑effective community‑basedcare than post his announced plan of action?

Mr. Orchard:  Again, Mr. Speaker, I do not know of what similarwheelchair‑‑because it is my understanding that this wheelchairis one of 10 of the new model.  It is not, as my honourablefriend alleges, the one that we purchased two years ago.

            Let me explain for my honourable friend how the ministryworks, and this is not unusual because this is a similar processthat has taken place for a number of years.  We provide modifiedwheelchairs, motorized in the case where needed, where mobilityis impossible without a motorized wheelchair.  Depending on thecircumstance of the individual's need, those wheelchairs aremodified and modified quite significantly.

            Mr. Speaker, that opportunity exists for this individual.The specialized wheelchair, yes, is one that would meet hisneeds, but there are also programs for modifying wheelchairs toalso accommodate that need.  Overriding that, the wheelchair isnot the only issue.  What is needed to be determined and providedis a safe placement for this individual that will meet theindividual's medical needs with assurance that they will not becompromised.  That is the process that has been ongoing in termsof stabilizing the individual, assessing medical needs andplanning for safe placement other than in a hospital.

Service Co‑ordination

 

Ms. Judy Wasylycia‑Leis (St. Johns):  Mr. Speaker, since theminister raises the other issues, let me ask about the absolutelack of co‑ordination between the three ministers and threedepartments involved and ask why there has been no attempt toresolve this kind of issue, why there are at least three otherindividuals spending months in costly hospitals without thisgovernment taking any initiative to provide some sort ofco‑ordinated housing program with supports to meet their highcare needs?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, as usual,my honourable friend considerably stretches her facts.  Let usdeal with some of the special needs individuals that were therein 1988 when this government came into office.  Let us considerthe head injured, on their desk in 1988 when we took overgovernment.  What is the solution today?‑‑a special wing in DeerLodge Hospital for the head injured of Manitoba, and plans atmunicipal hospitals to make that a permanent part of redevelopedmunicipal hospitals.  I might say to my honourable friend,municipal hospitals were a nonresolved issue by the previousadministration.

            Let us deal with another issue of the young disabled, Mr.Speaker.  What we are doing is working with a number ofproponents in the health care community for the provision ofyoung disabled placements in the community to meet specialmedical needs, more appropriately met in specialized facilities.

            Mr. Speaker, my honourable friend says there has been nothinggoing on.  The only thing that has not been going on is myhonourable friend's understanding of significant change in thehealth care system under this government.

 

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Portage Avenue Explosion

Investigation

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Mr.Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for ManitobaHydro.

            I think everyone in this House is relieved that there was noloss of life or serious injury as a result of the explosion lastFriday.  I would like to know from the minister if he can tell usif this incident is being investigated by Hydro officials or hashe directed an impartial independent authority to examine whathappened and to make public their report.

Hon. James Downey (Minister responsible for The Manitoba HydroAct):  Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for the question.As well, it was raised earlier with my colleague from SturgeonCreek (Mr. McAlpine) as to his concern relating to the accidentof Friday.

            I can inform the House that we are extremely fortunate, allManitobans, that there was not any loss of life or limb, or infact any injuries.  We are extremely thankful for that.  As well,Mr. Speaker, there is a full investigation being carried out byWorkplace Safety and Health, as well as Manitoba Hydro.  At thispoint, we are trying to work to co-ordinate all activities asthey relate to that issue.

            It is my understanding as well, the Fire Commissioner'sOffice has it under full investigation.  I want to take thisopportunity, if the member does not mind, to acknowledge the hardwork and effort of all the people, individuals and agencies thatparticipated and helped on Friday with people who foundthemselves under the stress of the extreme incident.  I canassure the member that it is being fully investigated.

           

Compensation

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Mr.Speaker, there is a serious question about insurance that hasbeen raised for those businesses and, more importantly, theindividuals who have been affected, nearby homeowners andtenants, some of whom have no dwelling whatsoever to live in.Processing of all of those claims will obviously take some time.

            Can the minister give us any information today with respectto interim compensation, particularly for those people who haveimmediate needs such as window replacement and in some casesalternate accommodations?

Hon. James Downey (Minister responsible for The Manitoba HydroAct):  Mr. Speaker, again, I regret, on Manitoba Hydro's behalfand the government's, any inconvenience that has been caused toindividuals.  It is a very disturbing situation, as we are allaware.

            As far as interim arrangements are concerned, I am preparedto work with other agencies that are involved in government tomake sure that there is in fact support provided.  There is amunicipal responsibility as well, as it relates to that.  To whatamount Family Services are involved, I am not sure, but we areworking to try and co-ordinate some support.

            Mr. Speaker, there is, of course, until all the investigationwork is done, some question as to who in fact was responsible ina legal manner as to the accident.  Until the full investigationis done, I cannot respond any further on that.

Mrs. Carstairs:  Mr. Speaker, can the minister tell us if thedepartment will be working with claimants in order to ensure thatthose claims are made as rapidly as possible and that they aresettled as quickly as possible?

Mr. Downey:  Mr. Speaker, again, it is a matter of making sureindividuals are accommodated to the best way possible.  I want toassure the member that we are prepared to co‑operate and workwith all agencies that will in fact try to accommodateindividuals during this difficult time.

            As far as insurance claims and settlement, there has to be alot of work done as to the responsibility as to who in fact wasresponsible.  The investigation, I am sure, will clarify a lot ofthose details.

 

The Pas, Manitoba

Justice System Backlog

 

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas):  Mr. Speaker, my question isdirected to the Minister of Justice.

            Over a year ago, when the AJI report was released by theMinister of Justice, he stated that there was nothing that he wasworking harder on.  The St. Theresa Point Youth Court receivedfunding after a press conference in our office here not all thatlong ago.  Later on, the Hollow Water Healing Circle alsoreceived some funds, as have a few other joint projects with thefederal government, including the Swampy Cree tribal justiceproject and the Island Lake Tribal Council family violenceproject.  Since then, almost nothing has happened, Mr. Speaker.

            My question is:  Since there are over 300 court casesoutstanding in The Pas, with delays of up to nine months now, aswe are speaking here today, will the minister now hire a secondCrown attorney who is familiar with things like healing circlesand other aboriginal justice systems to clear up the backlog thatis in The Pas?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General):Mr. Speaker, I thank the honourable member for raising thisquestion, because he should be advised that the Department ofJustice is in the process of hiring a second prosecutor in ThePas.  There has been a delay, and that delay is occasioned by thedesire of the Department of Justice, if possible, to hirelocally.  That creates some challenges for us.  We are dealingwith that, and that prosecutor will be in place shortly.  In themeantime, we are dealing with the situation as best we canthrough the use of Winnipeg prosecutors.

 

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Aboriginal Justice System

Program Funding

 

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas):  Mr. Speaker, I would also like toask a question to the same minister.

            Given that the year is almost over now, will the ministerrelease the complete list of all projects that have been fundedfrom the AJI budget that was set aside for the fiscal year '92‑93?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General):Mr. Speaker, the Department of Justice is working very closelywith some aboriginal communities in this province through theauspices of the Aboriginal Court Worker Advisory Committee.  Thatadvisory committee has membership representing the Assembly ofManitoba Chiefs, the Manitoba Metis Federation and the IndigenousWomen's Collective of Manitoba.  That work is going forward withthe specific communities towards the ultimate goal of puttingtogether tribal court models which we believe will serve largesegments of the aboriginal population in some isolated places inManitoba far better than they have been in the past.

            The honourable member will know that just over a week ago Iattended a native justice round table discussion in Ottawa.  Thiswas sponsored by the royal commission which has been struck toreview aboriginal matters.  An extremely interesting conferencewas had at that time with participation from people like myself,the Attorney General of Saskatchewan was there, the Grand Chiefof the Assembly of First Nations was there, and perhaps I willhave other opportunity, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Lathlin:  Mr. Speaker, I still say that we should have a listof those projects that have been funded through the AJI budgetfor '92‑93.

 

Aboriginal Justice Inquiry

Recommendation Analysis

 

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas):  My third question is again to theMinister of Justice, Mr. Speaker, and that is, the department hasbeen doing analysis on the AJI recommendations; I want to ask theminister if he is prepared to release that departmental analysisof all that was done on the recommendations of the report so thatManitobans can see for themselves why so many of thoserecommendations have either been dismissed or are not implementedor are being shelved and for whatever reason.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General):Many of the recommendations in the Aboriginal Justice Inquiryflow from the key recommendation that there be separate andsovereign systems of government for aboriginal people.  That isnot a recommendation that we are in a position to accept sotherefore a number of the recommendations in the justice inquiryare not able to be acted upon.

            As I was saying in my last question, this was a matter thatwas debated between the Assembly of First Nations Grand ChiefMercredi and myself just over a week ago.  Obviously Grand ChiefMercredi, like the honourable member, will continue to putforward the concept of separate sovereign systems of governmentwhich include separate sovereign justice systems for aboriginalpeople.

            As I said to Ovide Mercredi, I will say to the honourablemember, we can debate that until we are both very, very old andin the meantime we will not have done anything.  That is not goodenough, because the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry says that too, andthere is general agreement that where we can work co‑operativelywith communities we should indeed be doing that.  That isprecisely what we are doing.

            The discussion of political will came up, the issue ofpolitical will to create better systems of justice.  Thepolitical will has to come not only from provincial governmentsand the federal government but also from aboriginal communities.The honourable member's community is one of those communitiesthat has demonstrated it has political will and has moved withthe government to‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

 

* (1400)

 

Emilio Garcia

Parole Review

 

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):  Mr. Speaker, my question is for theMinister of Justice.  It is ironic hearing the minister'scomments this morning that the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry alsostated that aboriginal people represent a disproportionate amountof people who were incarcerated because many cannot pay fines andhave trouble understanding the justice system.

            We have learned that Emilio Garcia, a lawyer in the city ofWinnipeg who was sentenced to 64 months for probably the largesttrust fraud in the history of Manitoba is now out on the streetsafter three months on bail.  I am wondering if the minister canadvise the House how this has occurred.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General):  Iam not sure how the honourable member's, the two parts of hisquestion tie together.  We did not need an Aboriginal JusticeInquiry to tell us that there were a disproportionate number ofaboriginal people involved in our justice system.  The honourablemember should have known that long before the Aboriginal JusticeInquiry.  The members on this side of the House certainly knewthat.

            The justice inquiry did provide some useful advice togovernment and to aboriginal communities, but surely for thehonourable member to tell us that he did not know about thatbefore the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry says something that israther disturbing about him and the members on his side of theHouse.  The honourable member asks about a specific case.  Ishall conduct some inquiries and ascertain some information forthe honourable member on that case.

Mr. Chomiak:  Mr. Speaker, my supplementary to the sameminister.  Talk about a sovereign system‑‑how is it thisindividual got out when the rules on parole that any of us areaware of‑‑it is totally contrary to rules on parole to be outafter three months on a 64‑month sentence.  The minimum rulesthat we are apprised of are one‑sixth of your sentence before youget out on day parole, and how did this individual get out?  Talkabout a sovereign system.

Mr. McCrae:  The reason for my taking notice of the honourablemember's question is I want to ensure that the information thehonourable member is bringing forward is correct.  We havecertainly seen plenty of examples‑‑not as many times from thehonourable member as from some of his colleagues who occupy thefront benches‑‑of incorrect information being brought forward.Certainly three months on a 64‑month sentence does deserve to belooked into and that is exactly what I told the honourable memberI would do.

Mr. Chomiak:  Mr. Speaker, I am wondering if the minister canalso apprise the House whether or not there is an ongoinginvestigation as to the $3 million that is still outstanding interms of this trust fraud in light of the fact that the LawSociety is concerned that some of that money may have been movedout of the country.

Mr. McCrae:  My understanding is that when this kind of mattercomes forward every member of the legal profession in thisprovince is extremely concerned for various reasons and all ofthem very good reasons.  On that question, I will take thatquestion as notice as well.

 

Universities

Tuition Fees

 

Mr. Reg Alcock (Osborne):  Mr. Speaker, I have a question for theMinister of Education.  Since this government took office, feesat the University of Manitoba have risen some 82 percent and nowas the government is getting into its budget cycle, we arebeginning to hear more and more stories about double‑digitincreases at the province's universities.

            I would like to know from the Minister of Education, what isthis year's policy on student fees?  Are they intending to holdthe line at all?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr.Speaker, I have some laryngitis and so I am going to try andanswer the member's question as well as I can, and I hope that hewill be able to hear me.

            I think that it is very important for the member tounderstand that we also have great concern around the issue ofstudent tuition fees.  We are in the process now of going throughour budget cycle in the Department of Education as a departmentin government.  We are making every effort to take intoconsideration issues relating to university funding and theimpact on student tuition.

Mr. Alcock:  Mr. Speaker, the policy to date has been to transferthe cost of universities off the general revenues onto the debtloads of students.  I would like to ask the minister:  Will sherecommend through the Universities Grants Commission to theuniversities that they hold university fee increases this year tothe cost of inflation?

Mrs. Vodrey:  Mr. Speaker, the issue again of student tuition hasbeen of concern to this government.  We have made every attemptto assist students, where tuition fees have risen, to make surethat those students then have available to them student aid whichmay be of assistance to them to allow them to continue in theireducational process.

            Mr. Speaker, that is correct.  The government has allowed thestudents to pick up on their debt load with its inability to fundthe university.

 

Student Financial Assistance

 

Mr. Reg Alcock (Osborne):  Mr. Speaker, I would ask the ministerif she can report to the House what progress she has made in herdiscussions with the federal government, discussions she wasquite proud of in Estimates last year, and whether or not she hasbeen able to encourage them or get them to increase basic supportrates for students.

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr.Speaker, as the member knows, I have had two face‑to‑facemeetings with the federal minister responsible.  I have alsocommunicated by letter to him.  I have met with the studentpresidents from Manitoba to make sure that their concerns havebeen incorporated into any communication that I have had with thefederal minister.

            In addition, Mr. Speaker, the Council of Ministers ofEducation from across Canada met here in Winnipeg.  As a group ofministers, we also sent a letter to the federal minister and madesure that he was fully aware of the concerns.

             

Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation

No-Fault Insurance

 

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):  Mr. Speaker, I have a questionfor the Minister responsible for MPIC.

            Mr. Speaker, this minister has acknowledged that Autopacrates could increase by as much as 90 percent in the next sevenyears.  The previous NDP government asked Judge Kopstein torecommend ways to reduce Autopac costs.  The major recommendationof Judge Kopstein is in the report, and I will read that onemajor recommendation:  In my opinion, the inclination of a pureno‑fault automobile insurance system is the issue which requiresmost urgent consideration by the government of the province ofManitoba, because that system offers the greatest opportunity toraise costs and increase benefits.

            Mr. Speaker, my question to the minister is:  Why has theminister refused to act on this recommendation, which he has hadover four years, in order to really bring Autopac costs down?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister charged with the administration ofThe Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act):  Mr. Speaker,obviously, the member has been reading with some interestarticles that he saw in today's paper.

            The fact is, Mr. Speaker, that we have been looking verycarefully at the cost containment in terms of the total cost tothe people of the province.  Over the last three years, since wesaw the 28 percent that his previous government imposed on thepeople of this province, the cost increases in the corporationhave not been that dramatic.  The fact is that there is a trendbeginning to develop again in personal injury costs that we needto examine.

              

Public Utilities Board Process

 

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):  Mr. Speaker, I want to be veryspecific with this minister about costs.

            Will this minister confirm that when the group representingAutopac brokers and agents raised the matter of limiting agencyfees and commissions with the MPIC, the corporation told them togo to the Public Utilities Board like everyone else?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister charged with the administration ofThe Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act):  Mr. Speaker, Iam not sure if I even followed the member's question, but I donot think I have any knowledge of whereof he is speaking.

Mr. Leonard Evans:  The minister asked me to repeat thatquestion, my second question.  Well, Mr. Speaker, it is obviousthat they were asked to follow the proper procedure, and thiscabinet was prepared to abort the proper procedure.

             

Agents' Fees

 

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):  Mr. Speaker, my last questionto the minister is:  Will the minister now reconsider hisposition, in light of his acknowledgement of rapid increases inthe future as well as those in the past?  Will this ministerreconsider his position on agency fees and allow Autopac toproceed to cap agency or broker fees to 3 percent now instead ofallowing them to rise to nearly 10 percent?  Let us have someaction now.  Let us save a million dollars right now.

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister charged with the administration ofThe Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act):  Mr. Speaker, inthe incorporation of the changes of Autopac 2000, as I have saidto the member several times, there will be a dramatic change inthe way the corporation does business and the way that they dobusiness with their agents as well as the public.

            Mr. Speaker, in putting together that proposal that has beentaking place for over the last three and a half years, it hasbeen one of the primary focuses of the corporation to movetowards these cyclical renewals.  Why would you now decide thatin the middle of those discussions, you should all of a suddenchange direction?

 

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Labour Force Development

Government Initiatives

 

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley):  Mr. Speaker, over 70,000 Manitobansare now dependent upon social assistance.  The vast majority ofthose families want and need training and retraining, but we havea government in Manitoba that has no labour force developmentstrategy and apparently no immediate plans for announcing any.

            I want to ask the Minister of Education:  Will she tell theHouse when she will sign that agreement with Ottawa, and when canthose Manitoba families expect any help or direction from thisgovernment?  Is it this year?  Is it next year?  Is it sometime‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member has put herquestion.

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr.Speaker, we have been working on the signing of theCanada‑Manitoba Labour Force Development Agreement.  We are, Ibelieve, very close to making sure that the interests ofManitobans are now represented in that agreement, and I expect tobe looking at signing it very shortly.

             

Consultations

 

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley):  Mr. Speaker, I would like to askthe minister to change the policy that she announced in thisHouse last Thursday, when she said that she would not consult anyfurther with the labour movement or with education until aftershe had signed that agreement.  I want to give her theopportunity to retract that.

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr.Speaker, I believe the member has misconstrued any remarks made.

            We have in fact met and are very willing to consult withbusiness, with industry and with labour to make sure that theirinterests are represented and most particularly, Mr. Speaker, tomake sure that their interests are represented in the formationof any boards which then will flow from the signing of thatagreement.

 

Crop Insurance Review

Report Release

 

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin):  Mr. Speaker, I have a question forthe Minister of Agriculture.

            The crop insurance review was undertaken last year, after ageneral concern that was expressed throughout the province aboutinequities in crop insurance, crop insurance distortions invarious areas of the province.  The minister undertook a reviewwith a committee that was appointed that travelled throughout theprovince and provided him with a report that he received lastJune.  That is over five months ago.  Since June, this ministerhas not released that report, despite repeated requests that havebeen made by myself and many others for this report.

            I want to ask the minister:  Why will he not release the cropinsurance review report that was undertaken?  What is he hiding?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture):  Mr. Speaker, we arehiding nothing.  We had a very open process of 10 people goingaround and hearing input from producers and agribusiness people,whoever wanted to come forward and make some comment to the CropInsurance Commission.

            On behalf of the board of directors of Manitoba CropInsurance and the minister and the federal minister, all threeparties are reviewing it.  Many of the aspects in the review arenow being implemented by the Crop Insurance Corporation, and theboard is reviewing the final details in order to be able torelease the document.  It will be released before too long.  Theboard is reviewing and acting as fast as they can on many of theinitiatives in the report.

Mr. Plohman:  Mr. Speaker, this is incredible.  How can thisminister say he is implementing this report when farmers, theKeystone Agricultural Producers, the committee members themselvesare asking this minister to release it?  When will he releasethat report?

Mr. Findlay:  Mr. Speaker, the farmers of Manitoba asked for areview.  A review was done, and action is occurring on many ofthe recommendations that were brought forward.  All that memberworries about is release of it; he does not ask were we doinganything with the recommendations, which we are doing all kindsof things with.

Mr. Plohman:  Mr. Speaker, in doing all kinds of things insecret, is it not a fact that this minister is hiding this reportbecause he has been proven wrong in basing GRIP completely on thebasis of crop insurance, and the distortions that were in cropinsurance are magnified many times in GRIP because of it?

Mr. Findlay:  That member is saying revenue insurance is no goodfor the farmers of Manitoba.  I would ask him to go and talk toanybody who lives north of the Yellowhead Highway, who know thisyear that if it was not for revenue insurance, they would be outof farming.  You ask any farmer in Saskatchewan who does not havethe base of support that farmers in Manitoba have.

            That member does not want Manitoba farmers to have support.He does not want to support the revenue insurance program, neverhas and probably never will, even though the farmers of Manitobathank me over and over again for putting that program in place,even in his constituency, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker:  The time for Oral Questions has expired.

 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

 

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister responsible for Sport):  Leave torevert to ministerial statements, please?

Mr. Speaker:  Does the honourable minister have leave to revertto ministerial statements?

Some Honourable Members:  Leave.

Mr. Speaker:  It is agreed.

Mr. Stefanson:  Mr. Speaker, I have a ministerial statement tocirculate.

            I am honoured to rise before the House today to salute themany Manitobans who contributed to the city of Winnipeg'ssuccessful bid to the Canadian Olympic Association this weekendfor the endorsement to host the 1999 Pan American Games.

            As well documented through the media, Winnipeg was selectedover Toronto, Sherbrooke and Edmonton.  The selection of Winnipegas the Canadian city to proceed with a bid to the Pan AmericanSports Organization is no small tribute to the dedicated corps ofvolunteers, under the leadership of Don MacKenzie and BarbaraHuck, in what was truly a team effort.  The success of this bidwas the result of the co‑operation that existed between the Cityof Winnipeg, the Province of Manitoba, the Manitoba SportsFederation, the multicultural community, the corporate communityand the community at large.

 

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            These special community-minded and community-spiritedcitizens, who pooled their skills and abilities and devoted theirtime and energies for the better part of two years, and incertain individual cases longer, are to be duly recognized fortheir contribution to what will result in long‑term benefits toManitoba.

            While the ultimate decision still rests with the Pan AmericanSports Organization, it is generally felt endorsement from theCanadian Olympic Association was the biggest challenge towardsecuring the games.

            In proceeding now with what I feel will be another successfulbid, the investment we will make to hosting the games in 1999will create 2,000 full‑time jobs, add $136 million to theManitoba economy, result in new and improved facilities, enhancesport development and once again provide Manitobans with a strongsense of pride and achievement.

            Mr. Speaker, both the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and I had theprivilege of being in Toronto for the presentation and subsequentannouncement on Saturday.  Words cannot describe the pride thatwe shared as Manitobans and in those who portrayed Winnipeg andManitoba so brilliantly to the COA delegates.

            I would ask all members to join me in congratulating thosededicated volunteers who served on the 1999 Pan American GamesBid Committee and in offering encouragement and support to thehost bid committee and the Canadian Olympic Association towardsecuring the endorsement of the Pan American Sports Organizationfor Winnipeg as the host of the 1999 Pan American Games.

            Thank you.

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Yes, responding to theministerial statement that we reverted back to, Mr. Speaker, Iwould like to congratulate the delegation on behalf of the cityof Winnipeg, and the full delegation on their success in havingWinnipeg nominated as the Canadian community for the hosting ofthe Pan American Games in 1999.  We look forward to the ultimatedecision that will be made by the Pan American Committee in 1994and we look forward to the deliberations that will take place onthe ultimate decision.

            Mr. Speaker, the minister has mentioned the volunteers whohave worked actively on behalf of the Winnipeg bid, and I wouldlike to also extend our congratulations to Mr. MacKenzie andBarbara Huck on their co‑chairmanship of this bid.

            Mr. Speaker, I would like to pay tribute to a couple of othervolunteers who I think it is very important today to remember inthis ministerial statement.  One is Jim Daly, who led the 1967Pan American Games and the tremendous voluntary activity in 1967in Winnipeg, which truly put our community on the internationalmap.  The thousands of volunteers who worked throughout thosegames, I believe, made us all very proud.  I know my own personalexperience with my father, taking time off for two weeks workingin the swimming events, and I know of so many others who justtook their whole vacation period, thousands of Winnipeggers underthe leadership of Jim Daly, who I‑‑[interjection] the DeputyPremier (Mr. Downey) may want to make light of it, but Jim Daly,I think, made a tremendous contribution in hosting or chairingthe Pan Am Games in 1967, and I think we would be remiss if wedid not mention his contributions.

            I also think that Art Mauro deserves a tremendous amount ofcredit, because the hosting of the Grey Cup last year withcommunity volunteers, when you compare that with the hosting ofthe Grey Cup in Toronto last week, I am sure made the differenceof the one vote in terms of the voting delegates, and I think weowe some gratitude to those people who were involved.

            I know also that we were seized with this responsibility in1987.  I know that Minister Desjardins visited down toIndianapolis with the former deputy mayor, now the Ministerresponsible for Sport, in 1987 in terms of the initial lobby.

            I also recall, Mr. Speaker, that former minister of SportParasiuk had to deal with some of the capital concepts of hostingthe Pan American Games, and I want to bring to the attention ofmembers opposite, one of the capital considerations that he hadbefore him and that I would ask the government to consider.  Oneof his criteria for contributing with the Sports Federation andthe province in contribution with the city and the federalgovernment was to ensure that all the sports facilities that willbe left behind, all the investment that will be left behind foramateur sports and community quality of life will be spreadevenly throughout our Manitoba communities and not be justrelegated to one area of the city or another.  I would raise thiswith the minister now, because it will be an issue that we willbe watching for to ensure the kind of fairness that we asked forthe federal government last week is the kind of fairness that wesee with facilities that are required in the Pan American Games.

            I would also raise one other issue‑‑and I mean this very seriously‑‑to the government, because I do congratulate them ontheir successful activity in getting this bid.  I want to saythat not only to the Minister of Sport but to the Premier (Mr.Filmon) and all others who were involved in the bid presentationthis weekend.