LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Tuesday, December 8, 1992

 

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

 

PRAYERS

             

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

             

PRESENTING PETITIONS

 

Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The Maples):  Mr. Speaker, I beg to presentthe petition of W.J. Karle, J.P. Karle, Thom Irving and others,requesting the government of Manitoba to pass the necessaryregulations which will restrict stubble burning in the provinceof Manitoba.

           

READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS

 

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourablemember for River Heights (Mrs. Carstairs).  It complies with theprivileges and the practices of the House, and it complies withthe rules (by leave).  Is it the will of the House to have thepetition read?

            To the Legislature of the province of Manitoba

            WHEREAS each year smoke from stubble burning descends uponthe province of Manitoba; and

            WHEREAS the Parents Support Group of Children with Asthma haslong criticized the harmful effects of stubble burning; and

            WHEREAS the smoke caused from stubble burning is not healthyfor the general public and tends to aggravate the problems ofasthma sufferers and people with chronic lung problems; and

            WHEREAS alternative practices to stubble burning arenecessitated by the fact that the smoke can place some people inlife‑threatening situations; and

            WHEREAS the 1987 Clean Environment Commission Report onPublic Hearings, "Investigation of Smoke Problems fromAgriculture Crop Residue and Peatland Burning," contained therecommendation that a review of the crop residue burningsituation be conducted in five years' time, including are‑examination of the necessity for legislated regulatory control.

            THEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the LegislativeAssembly will urge the government of Manitoba to pass thenecessary legislation/regulations which will restrict stubbleburning in the province of Manitoba.

             

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

              

Bill 208‑The Workers Compensation Amendment Act

 

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona):  Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by themember for Radisson (Ms. Cerilli), that Bill 208, The WorkersCompensation Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur lesaccidents du travail, be introduced and that the same be nowreceived and read a first time.

           

Motion presented.

           

* (1335)

 

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona):  Mr. Speaker, this bill is designedto recognize the occupational health hazards encountered byfirefighters in the performance of their duties while protectingthe lives and property of Manitobans.

            Medical studies have shown that there is a greater incidenceof heart injury and injuries to the lungs, brains and kidneys offirefighters than for any other compatible profession.Firefighters were covered for such work‑related injuries untilWorkers Compensation regulations were struck down by Justice Lyonin 1988, due to the lack of specific legislation.  This billprovides the specifics, Mr. Speaker.

            This firefighter protection bill has been extensively debatedby all members wishing to do so in the last session of theLegislature and was, except for procedure, nearly passed atcommittee.

            I am sure that all members support firefighters and wouldwish to move this bill forward with a minimum of debate.  Thankyou, Mr. Speaker.

 

Motion agreed to.

 

Introduction of Guests

 

Mr. Speaker:  Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attentionof honourable members to the gallery, where we have with us thisafternoon, from the General Wolfe School, fifty Grade 9students.  They are under the direction of Mr. Herold Driedger.This school is located in the constituency of the honourablemember for Wellington (Ms. Barrett).

            Also this afternoon, we have from the St. George School,sixty Grade 9 students under the direction of Mr. Clint Harvey.This school is located in the constituency of the honourablemember for St. Vital (Mrs. Render).

            On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to welcomeyou here this afternoon.

             

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

 

Decentralization Criteria

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, myquestion is to the First Minister.

            The government is proceeding with their decentralizationprograms and having announcements being made by various cabinetministers at various photo opportunities almost on aweekend‑by‑weekend basis.

Some Honourable Members:  Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

Mr. Doer:  We are obviously hitting a raw nerve, Mr. Speaker.

            The government has proceeded with decisions to announce 26jobs in Carman and deliver 31 jobs.  It has proceeded to announcejobs in Winkler and deliver those jobs.  It has proceeded toannounce various jobs and even exceed that in some communitiesheld by Conservative cabinet ministers.

            On the other hand, communities with higher unemployment, withjust the same kind of economic needs, if not greater economicneeds, outside of Winnipeg, like Dauphin, were promised 34 jobsin 1990, pre‑election, I might add.  Only seven jobs have beendelivered and some 60 jobs have been lost.

            I would like to ask the Premier:  What criteria are hisgovernment using in the decentralization program that he hasimplemented?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, the criteria involve acommon‑sense analysis of what services can be provided bygovernment at least as efficiently and effectively outside thecity of Winnipeg as they can within the city of Winnipeg, wherethey will also provide economic benefit to the communities inwhich they are located.

            We have steadfastly said that if we lack either thetechnology or the ability to provide the services as efficientlyif not more efficiently and effectively in the host community,then obviously we cannot transfer the jobs into the hostcommunity.  Consequently, every individual decision has beenbased on that kind of analysis, and we have proceeded, as themember has well documented, to decentralize more than 550 jobsnow throughout the province of Manitoba, some 600 jobs.  In allof the communities, they have been very well received.  Theservices are proceeding very, very well, and the public is happywith them.  The host communities are happy with them, and it is awin‑win situation for everybody.

Mr. Doer:  Mr. Speaker, we have decisions being cancelled inareas of higher unemployment, in northern Manitoba, in theparklands of Manitoba, and we have decisions to proceed withmany, many jobs in southwestern Manitoba, where the unemploymentrate is the lowest in Manitoba.

            I would like to know from the Premier:  Are the criteriapolitical considerations of the Conservative front benches or theeconomic considerations in Manitoba in terms of opportunities andeconomic requirements of Manitobans?

Mr. Filmon:  The commitments that we have undertaken to northernManitoba have either been proceeded with in totality or are stillunderway.  For instance, CEDF, Communities Economic DevelopmentFund, which is a fund for rural and remote community development,was operated for all those years out of Winnipeg, a terriblyinappropriate place for it.  That has been located and isoperating out of Thompson‑‑it has been for quite sometime‑‑because of a result of a decision of this government.  Weare doing that.  There have been jobs decentralized to Flin Flon,the MHSC jobs.  In all cases, we are working to ensure that thesejobs are made available to these areas to ensure that they arebeing done efficiently, effectively in serving the people of theprovince and, at the same time, providing substantial economicbenefit to the local community.

Mr. Doer:  The Premier quotes Flin Flon; he should note thatthere were 24 jobs promised, seven delivered, and 12 jobs lost sofar in Flin Flon.

            I would like to ask the Premier:  He has argued for fairnesswith the Prime Minister; he has argued that Manitoba be treatedfairly by our federal Conservative Prime Minister.  Would thePremier please be intellectually consistent and tell us whetherpolitical constituencies were part of the criteria that thecabinet used and the Premier used to choose where the jobs wouldgo in this province?

 

* (1340)

 

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, we will talk about intellectualconsistency and the New Democrats.  That is a contradiction interms.  The New Democrats may want to judge us based on theircriteria, and we will not accept that judgment.  They playedpolitics in everything they did, and we will not do that.  Thatis why we have placed jobs in Thompson, that is why we haveplaced jobs in Flin Flon, that is why we have placed jobsthroughout this province, in Brandon East and in many areas thatare not represented by members on this side of the House, becausewe are doing it in the interests of fairness, we are doing it inthe interest of consistency, which is more than I can say for mycolleague opposite.

Mr. Doer:  I have a new question for the Premier, and I want totable a memo from the clerk of cabinet, who works directly forthe Premier, to the co‑ordinator of decentralization.  I wouldlike to quote from that memo that states, quote:  The HonourableJim Downey brought a provincial map showing locations ofdecentralized operations to cabinet.  Please prepare a similarmap using a provincial constituency map as the base for showingthe proposed decentralization moves.

            I would like to ask the Premier:  Is this the criterion thePremier actually used and instructed his whole government to dopre‑election in 1990 in terms of decisions of this government?

Mr. Filmon:  I cannot believe that the member would even put thatforward when he knows that we have put jobs in Dauphin, we haveput jobs in Thompson, we have put jobs in Flin Flon, we have putjobs in Brandon East, we have put jobs in Selkirk.  We have putjobs in all of these areas that are not Conservative seats.  Themember opposite has totally destroyed his own argument by virtueof the information that we have provided for him.  It is absolutenonsense.

Mr. Doer:  Mr. Speaker, when the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) andthe co‑chair of the election planning committee bring a map tocabinet, that is not good enough for the Premier because ageographic map is not good enough for their cabinet.  They need aconstituency map before the election.

            How does the Premier justify instructing the Civil Servicethrough the clerk of cabinet to prepare a constituency map, andhow can he say and stand up in this House and not admit that thiswas a political decision from Day One?  The cancellation of jobsin rural Manitoba were political, and this Premier ran the wholedecentralization campaign in a political partisan way with aconstituency map of this province.

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, because we anticipated that we wouldget this kind of foolish argument from the member for Concordia(Mr. Doer), we wanted to make sure that we had the evidence todemonstrate that we had put jobs in Thompson, that we had putjobs in Flin Flon, that we had put jobs in Dauphin, that we hadput jobs in Selkirk, that we had put jobs in Brandon East,because we knew exactly the kind of foolish argument that hewould put forward.

Mr. Doer:  Mr. Speaker, he did in fact promise pre‑election jobsin Dauphin, and then he cancelled them after the election.  Hepromised 34 before the election, 60 of them lost after theelection; promised jobs in Flin Flon, 24 before the election,seven were delivered, 12 were cancelled after the election;promised jobs in The Pas, six were delivered, 19 jobs were lost.

            What are the criteria this Premier is using?  He is usingpartisan, political interference in the delivery of publicservices in this province.  This memo proves that this Premierwas only interested in his own re‑election, not interested in theeconomic well‑being of Manitobans throughout this province.

 

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Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, the member opposite comes forward withabsolute balderdash.  The reality is that there are manycommunities that have not got the jobs that have been promised,one being Souris, for instance.  The town of Souris, why did younot bring that one up?  How about Gladstone?  How about Hamiota?Those are areas that are represented by Conservative MLAs.  Thereis absolutely not a shred of truth to the statement that is madeby the member for Concordia, which is totally consistent with allof the accusations that he makes in this House.

 

Video Lottery Terminals

Legion Participation

 

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster):  Mr. Speaker, I have a questionfor the Premier.

            This government's "anything goes" gambling policy is hurtinga great number of Manitobans.  In fact, we have one legion inSte. Rose that has sent out minutes indicating that they aregoing to have to shut down the legion, by the looks of it, by theend of this month, because of the way in which this government isintroducing its gambling policy, if they even have a gamblingpolicy.

            My question to the Premier is:  Will the minister change thepolicy and allow VLTs in the legion halls, given that it is anabsolute shame, the manner in which this government is treatingthe legions throughout this province, absolute shame?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, I can tell the memberfor Inkster one policy on gambling that I have, and that is thatI will not bet on his chances of being the next leader of theLiberal Party.  The answer to his question is‑‑[interjection]

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

Mr. Filmon:  Well, it shows that the New Democrats never couldhandicap properly.

            The answer to his question is:  That is a matter that we arestill under discussion with with representatives of the legionsof this province on, and we will continue to consult as we moveforward on various different aspects of our policy with respectto gaming in this province.

            The minister responsible, the Minister of Culture, Heritageand Citizenship (Mrs. Mitchelson), has been very fair and veryreasonable and has spent time listening to people who haveconcerns, from all areas of the province and from all varioussectors, including the legions.

Mr. Lamoureux:  Mr. Speaker, I find it somewhat unfortunate thatwe have one legion in particular that is having to look atclosing their doors because of actions of this government, whichis most unfortunate, because this government is not prepared orwas not prepared to introduce a gambling policy, that it hasdecided to do it in such an ad hoc way in which you are pittingcommunities against communities.

            Why did this government not think through all theimplications before bringing in the VLT system?

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, the various programs that have beenbrought forward in this province have been brought forward withintent and purpose.

            The member talks about a legion possibly closing its doors.We would have lost half of the hotels in southern rural Manitobaif we had not brought forth the policy of implementing VLTs inthose hotels.  The hotel keepers and the hotel owners have saidthat publicly.  He, as a member of this Legislature, ought to beconcerned about that because it would have been a very negativeimpact on many of the communities in rural southern Manitoba hadthat occurred.

            I know that the member for Interlake (Mr. Clif Evans)understands that full well.  It is a very substantial economicbenefit to those people, so we have brought forward thesepolicies after careful consideration.  We have announced thatthese policies are progressing step by step, and so that when webrought the VLTs into rural southern Manitoba, it was to addressa very severe problem being faced by the hotels in that area.

            We have said that we are going to be expanding it so thathotels within the city of Winnipeg are the next step in thechain.  We have done those things after careful consideration anda great deal of consultation.  We are in the process ofconsultation with the legions as part of this overall approach toensuring that it is done carefully and in the best interests ofall the people of Manitoba.

 

* (1350)

 

Mr. Lamoureux:  Mr. Speaker, the Premier says that he wasconcerned and he listened to the hoteliers.  Why is the Premiernot concerned in listening to what the legions are saying?  Whyis it that the Premier is being very one‑sided on this wholedebate?  There has been no public consultation.  There has notbeen any coherent policy.  An ad hoc‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member for Inksterhas put his question.

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, the question was, why am I notconcerned?  The answer is that I am concerned; that ourgovernment is concerned.  That is why we are in the midst ofconsultations with the legions.  If we were not concerned, wewould not be in discussion with them.

              

Decentralization Criteria

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  Mr. Speaker, it is a disgracethat this government should consider political interference asthey plotted decentralization on constituency maps.

            I want to ask the Premier:  Is this map still in use, or hasthe map changed since the election, and is that why all thedecentralized jobs are going to Tory ridings or ridings‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member has put herquestion.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker‑‑

Some Honourable Members:  Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  We do not need a singsong right now.

Mr. Filmon:  You know, Mr. Speaker, here we have the member forSwan River and her colleagues all of a sudden crying wolf whenthey voted against decentralization.  They were opposed to theentire policy, opposed to the policy.  Here we are, through theprocess of decentralization, transferring jobs into Thompson,transferring jobs into Flin Flon, transferring jobs into Dauphin,transferring jobs into Selkirk, transferring jobs into BrandonEast, and they now are complaining about the fact that theirconstituencies are getting jobs.  I cannot believe it.

Ms. Wowchuk:  Mr. Speaker, we voted against politicalinterference.

            Mr. Speaker, will the Premier tell us then when we will seethis government carry through with the balance of its promisedjobs?  When will we see jobs in Dauphin?  When will we see jobsin Thompson and in The Pas?

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, you know, here is the member for SwanRiver; we have a personal care home being constructed, thanks tothe policies and the decisions of this government, right in hercommunity of Swan River, and she has the audacity to complainabout this government and its fairness.  She ought to beashamed.  She does not represent her people, and she does nothave any sense of fairness and reasonableness when she asks herquestion.

 

Completion

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  Mr. Speaker, will the Premieradmit that he is not telling the truth when it comes to that theyare not going to proceed with decentralization since‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  I would ask the honourable memberfor Swan River to remove that remark from the record.

Ms. Wowchuk:  Yes, I will remove that.

Mr. Speaker:  The honourable member for Swan River, kindly putyour question now, please.

 

* (1355)

 

Ms. Wowchuk:  Will the Premier admit that he is misleading thepublic while carrying on about proceeding with decentralizationsince the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach) has alreadytold the Dauphin media that the remaining 160 or 170 jobs willnot be carried out for the next two or three years, or is thisgovernment‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member has put herquestion.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, we announced, I believeit was about three years ago, at the Union of ManitobaMunicipalities annual meeting, in fact, it was November of 1989in Brandon, we announced at that time that we would bedecentralizing a total of 693 jobs.  Now, despite recession,despite difficult challenges for this government, despite theopposition of the New Democratic Party, we have decentralizedover 600 jobs.  That is a commitment that we made, and that is acommitment that we have kept.

            In conjunction with that, jobs have gone to Dauphin, jobshave gone to Selkirk, jobs have gone to Brandon East, jobs havegone to Thompson, jobs have gone to Flin Flon, all of those areasof New Democratic Party holdings we, we have decentralized jobs,Mr. Speaker.  That is because of a commitment that thisgovernment has made, a commitment to fairness, a commitment tobalance and a commitment to rural and northern Manitoba that wasnot supported by the New Democrats.  They ought to be ashamed,embarrassed, to even bring forward these questions.

             

Decentralization

Northern Manitoba

 

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas):  Mr. Speaker, the North has beenparticularly hard hit by cuts in government positions and thepolitical decisions as to where decentralization is takingplace.  The unemployment rate currently in The Pas sits at 25percent, and the more further north you go, it is 90 percent.

            My question is to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon):  Sinceunemployment in the North is the highest of any region in thecountry, why did this government put the majority of jobs insouthwest Manitoba, which has the lowest unemployment rate inManitoba?  Has he not realized the effects of the Repap layoffsand cuts to the Clearwater Nursery, and other increases in theunemployment rate in Manitoba?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Northern Affairs):  Mr. Speaker,for a member who decided to run for a party, who was unable toget one thing under the New Democratic Party, to ask this kind ofa question, where in fact the Community Economic DevelopmentFund, with some 12 employees, is now operating out of Thompson,Manitoba, where it should be, not sitting downtown at 55 Carltonon the 12th or 15th floor where nobody could get to it‑‑it is nowvery appropriately placed in Thompson, Manitoba, providing theneeds of the North.

            The Pas, as well, was a recipient of decentralized jobs,which are important in that community and, as well, Mr. Speaker,major initiatives by this government to assure the ongoingoperation of the Manfor Repap plant, a credit to this government,not to the one he chose to sit with.

 

Decentralization

Northern Manitoba

 

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas):  My supplementary question, Mr.Speaker, is again directed to the First Minister.

            How does the First Minister explain the fact that there arefewer civil servant positions in northern Manitoba today, afterdecentralization, than when the Premier began this plan in 1990?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, there are fewer civilservant positions overall in this province.  That is the realityof having government be more efficient and taking less dollarsfrom the taxpayer.  That is the reality.  We do not want to addmore taxes like New Democrats do.  We absolutely refuse to raisethe taxes in the obscene way that the New Democrats did.  As aresult of that, we have 1,200 fewer civil servants across theprovince as a whole.  We believe that is the right policy, andthe people of Manitoba believe it is as well.

             

Keewatin Community College

Funding

 

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas):  Mr. Speaker, my last question isagain directed to the First Minister.

            Over the past two years, despite a rising unemployment ratein the North and the need for more training, Keewatin CommunityCollege has had major reductions.  I would like to ask the FirstMinister if he would assure the House today that KCC will not behit again in the next budget.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, you know, this is awonderful way for the New Democrats to start rumours in thisHouse, is to imply through questions that something is beingconsidered.  I know of no plans to target any particular area.We have an obligation to review the entire workings of the CivilService to ensure that we can deliver the services of thisprovince as efficiently and effectively as possible.  We willcontinue to examine every possible avenue.  We will go throughline by line, position by position, department by department,section by section, and make sure that we can have this CivilService operate as efficiently as possible, and we will examineevery particular option, because we do not want to raise taxeslike the New Democrats raised taxes.  That is the wrong policy,and we reject it.

 

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Video Lottery Terminals

Revenues

 

Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface):  Mr. Speaker, I have a questionfor the Minister of Rural Development.

            Last July, when the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) announced theestablishment of video lottery terminals for rural Manitoba, hesaid the revenues would be used for rural economic development.The expected amount for the first year was to be $5.3 million.While the actual figure is reported to be $7 million, a week ago,the Minister of Rural Development said any amount over the REDIprogram's budget of $2.4 million will go to general revenues.

            Can the minister tell the House when he changed the policyand why?  Why is this minister breaking a commitment made to thepeople of Manitoba?

Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development):  Mr.Speaker, I do not know where the member does his research andgets his information, but indeed neither the $7 million‑‑that wasa figure that I do not know where it came from.  Certainly it didnot come from our office.  I indicated in the very beginning thatwe had been given some $2.4 million for the REDI program from VLTrevenues.  In addition there was over $895,000, I believe, givento the Grow Bonds program from the VLT revenues.  In addition, weput $740,000 into The Green Team.  So, in total, we havecommitted over $4 million to various Rural Economic DevelopmentInitiatives across this province.

            It is true that the anticipated revenues were going to be$5.3 million.  That is something that we had to put our bestefforts in guessing, what the revenues were going to be, becausewe had no history of VLT revenues in this province prior to usintroducing them last November.  If there are additionalrevenues, those will be dealt with through the normal process andthe budget process.

Mr. Gaudry:  In case the minister has not seen the press releasefrom his department, I will table it.  A promise was made todirect all revenues into rural conomic development, a promisethis government is breaking.  If it was the government's intentto use VLT revenues for general purposes, why did this ministernot have the integrity and the honesty to say so from thebeginning?

Mr. Derkach:  Mr. Speaker, it is interesting that the member getsup now in support of rural economic development, because first ofall they voted against it in the beginning.

            Let me say that, indeed, every penny that we were given inthe Estimates process and in the budget process will be used forRural Economic Development Initiatives.  As I have indicated, wehave already committed over $4 million towards Rural EconomicDevelopment Initiatives in rural Manitoba.  Our largestcommitment was to Ayerst, where we were able to commit $1 millionfrom the video lottery terminals, and Ayerst is in Brandon, arural community in this province.  Indeed the monies we havecommitted have gone to rural Manitoba, to Rural EconomicDevelopment Initiatives in the province.

Mr. Gaudry:  If the minister has committed it, will the ministercommit today to channel every penny raised from rural VLTs backto rural Manitoba in the form of rural development initiativesthat create jobs and strengthen local economies?

Mr. Derkach:  Mr. Speaker, when we introduced video lotteriesinto this province, first of all the opposition and, I might say,the member's own party, the critic from the Liberal Party, hisown party, were opposed to video lottery terminals and the wholeconcept.  We indicated at that time, in anticipation of revenuesof somewhere in the neighbourhood of $5.3 million, that thoserevenues would be used for Rural Economic DevelopmentInitiatives.  That commitment stands.  We have committed over $4million to date to Rural Economic Development Initiatives, andour commitment is to rural Manitoba.

              

Decentralization

Vital Statistics Branch

 

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin):  Mr. Speaker, the Premier (Mr.Filmon) stood in this House and said that politics andconstituency maps had nothing to do with the criteria in makingdecisions with regard to decentralization.  Yet, since the 1990election, we have had, of the 34 jobs that were to be transferredto Dauphin, only seven of those transferred.  So 27 were nottransferred to Dauphin.  In addition to that, we have had over 30jobs lost in Corrections, in Agriculture, in Natural Resources,in Highways, in various departments, over 60 jobs lost.

            I want to ask the First Minister or the Minister of RuralDevelopment why those jobs for Vital Statistics were notdelivered to Dauphin as promised.

Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development):  Mr.Speaker, I have indicated on several occasions that when thecommitment was made, I believe it was 640 jobs that would bedecentralized throughout rural Manitoba.  Since that time, wehave gone through some budget reductions in government as awhole.  I can indicate to the House today that instead of 640jobs which we had promised at the beginning, we are up to over760 jobs.  The decentralization to Dauphin was one of the firstdecentralizations that we did as a matter of fact, and theopening at the Native Education Branch was one of the first thatI attended in Brandon.

            So our commitment is to rural Manitoba.  Indeed, VitalStatistics had been identified for Dauphin.  As I have indicatedin many questions with regard to Vital Statistics, there werereasons why we could not decentralize Vital Statistics at thattime.  The computerization program that has to be updated is oneof those major reasons.  When that has been completed, we willthen reassess the entire situation.

Mr. Plohman:  Mr. Speaker, that answer is absolutely untrue.  Inthis same memo that my Leader quoted from earlier, it said thatat cabinet each minister will be required to agree that eachproposed move within their department is practical, feasible,logistically sound and achievable by the established target date.

            What is this minister's excuse for not delivering?  How is itthat he is saying he found out later about computerization‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member has put hisquestion.

Mr. Derkach:  Mr. Speaker, I think the member for Dauphin justread the answer into the record when he asked the question.First of all, it has to be practical.  Secondly, every departmentwas asked to ensure that before we decentralized any positions,we would make sure that the decentralization process would besuch that would benefit the community and would not be done insuch a way that would be a haphazard way.

            If we compare our decentralization program to any of theother provinces that have attempted decentralization, ourdecentralization program is probably the most successful inCanada, and I am proud of the program.

Mr. Plohman:  Mr. Speaker, how can this minister stand in thisHouse and tell this House the information that he has when infact this memo was written February 16, 1990, prior to the publicannouncement?  It was his job to ensure that these decisions werelogistically sound before they were announced.  If they met thatcriteria, why were they announced if they could not bedelivered?  What games were‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member has put hisquestion.

Mr. Derkach:  Mr. Speaker, I can tell the member from Dauphinthat indeed our commitment is not‑‑

An Honourable Member:  For Dauphin.

Mr. Derkach:  For Dauphin, because he is not from Dauphin.

            When Vital Statistics was identified to be moved to Dauphin,one of the things that the department did bring to our attentionwas that it would be far better and far more practical for us todo the entire computerization system renewal before that kind ofan initiative could be embarked upon.  The co‑ordinator ofdecentralization pressed the department to get some answers interms of how long this would take.

            Mr. Speaker, I have indicated on many occasions that whenthat process is complete, we will then revisit that decision andmake sure that we will live up to our commitments.

Aboriginal Justice Inquiry

Recommendations

 

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):  Mr. Speaker, my question is for theMinister of Justice.

            We raised some questions in this Chamber yesterday about theAJI, and I noted the minister's press release with respect to theAJI that 107 recommendations or 36 percent of the recommendationsof the AJI were within provincial jurisdiction.

            Can the minister outline today how many of thoserecommendations have been implemented?

 

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Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General):  Inaddition to support of the government of Manitoba to the St.Theresa Point Youth Court, in addition to the support of thisgovernment for the Human Justice Training Program which helpsaboriginal people be trained for justice work, in addition toongoing work that is taking place with specific communitiesrespecting an aboriginal court model in Manitoba, in addition tothis government's support for the Hollow Water sexual abuseproject, in addition to this government's support for the DOTCprobation services, in addition to this government's support forthe DOTC police department, this government has in directresponse to the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry responded‑‑in additionto the Department of Natural Resources, Northern and NativeAffairs, Family Services and the Women's Directorate in theJustice department, we have responded by addressing therecommendation respecting the granting of interim legal aidcertificates over the telephone; we have developed in conjunction.

              

Youth Programs

 

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):  The minister specifically, in thepress release, indicated there would be three initiatives takenout for youth and crime, youth specialists to work with youngoffenders, family abuse teams and crime prevention programs foryouth in aboriginal communities.

            Can the minister indicate the status of those three specificprograms that the minister indicated at the time he would beimplementing?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General):  Wehave begun that process with our support for the St. TheresaPoint Youth Court and, I suggest, the Hollow Water sexual abuseproject.

            As I said, we have begun consultations with respect toaboriginal court models in selected aboriginal communities forthe most part in northern Manitoba.  With respect also to ourresponse to the inquiry and to the need that is there, was therelong before the inquiry and remains there, in conjunction withaboriginal advisory groups, we have developed a proposal forchanging the operation of the circuit courts.  The justice of thepeace program is being reviewed with a view to appointing morenative justices of the peace.  We have elder services availablein all of our correctional institutions in Manitoba since therelease of the report.

Mr. Chomiak:  My final supplementary to the same minister:  Theminister indicated that these three specific programs toyouth‑‑and that is very timely because youth and crime is a veryserious issue in our society‑‑would be implemented.  Has theminister implemented these three simple programs that heindicated in his press release January 28 he would beimplementing?

Mr. McCrae:  We have engaged in more cross‑cultural training,native awareness training programs amongst officers in ourcorrectional facilities.  These are being revised and updated byofficers of aboriginal ancestry.  The program is part of thebasic training program for all recruits in corrections.Correction officers who have not taken the course in the pastfive years will be enrolled with a view to completing the coursewithin the next two years.  We have native advisory committeesalready formed at Brandon and Dauphin, and we are attempting tocreate them for all the other institutions.  I mentioned DOTCservices.  In the area of prosecutions, we have made directresponses to the Harper and Osborne aspects of the AboriginalJustice Inquiry.

 

Hazardous Waste

Environmental Liability

 

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James):  My question is for the Minister ofEnvironment, Mr. Speaker.

            In the last session of the Legislature, the House passedamendments to The Dangerous Goods Handling and TransportationAct, giving power to the director of enforcement in thedepartment to issue cleanup orders against almost anyone who wasever involved with a piece of contaminated property, whether ornot they were directly involved in the contamination.  Flowingfrom that the minister appointed an advisory committee onenvironmental liability.  It has now come forward with itsreport, and the minister has had it since October 5.

            Mr. Speaker, my question for the minister:  That reportclearly calls for decisions of liability apportionment to betaken outside of his office's hands and given to an independent decision-maker.  Will the minister commit today to abiding bythis report's recommendation and putting environmental liability decision-making authority in the hands of an independent body,such as an administrative tribunal or court, instead of makingthose decisions out of his office?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Mr. Speaker, Ithink on one hand the member would like this minister to take farmore arbitrary action, but on the other hand, he is not sure thathe is really committed to that.  This report that is referred tois a very valued report, as a matter of fact, a multisectoralresponse to what is a very difficult problem for the Departmentof Environment.  But what he has overlooked however in hisquestion is that we committed ourselves to a much broaderconsultation as well on the national scale.  I have attempted toput this on the agenda of the national ministers' conference, andwe will continue to push forward on a broader basis so thatManitoba, or any other jurisdiction for that matter, does notbecome an island in terms of how we pursue these issues.

Mr. Edwards:  Mr. Speaker, perhaps the minister will answer thisquestion.  On the last page of this report, underrecommendations, the committee specifically indicated that thegovernment must take stronger steps to prevent futurecontamination.

            Mr. Speaker, why is it that this minister and this governmenthas to continue to suffer the admonishment of groups from thebusiness community like the Canadian Bankers' Association, theWinnipeg Chamber of Commerce, who are both on this task force?Why does the government have to keep being criticized by thesebodies to take action to enforce its regulations?  This is thethird time this year that this government has been criticized bythe business community for its lack of enforcement.

Mr. Cummings:  Mr. Speaker, there is, I think, a little bit ofcontradiction between what the member would like to portray andwhat actually occurs.  As a matter of fact, I am admonished manytimes for the department being too active in its activities inrelationship to enforcement and control, but let me assure youthat the implementation of The Dangerous Goods Handling andTransportation Act is the priority function of the department atthis juncture, and we are moving forward in that respect.

Mr. Speaker:  The time for Oral Questions has expired.

             

NONPOLITICAL STATEMENTS

 

Mr. Jack Reimer (Niakwa):  Mr. Speaker, may I have leave to makea nonpolitical statement?

Mr. Speaker:  Does the honourable member for Niakwa have leave tomake a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Reimer:  Today I would like to pay special recognition to anevent that has been entertaining us for many years and now hasbeen formally recognized by a major American travelorganization.  Yesterday Folklorama was named the top event inCanada for 1993 by the American Bus Association, which in theworld of tourism is a very prestigious award.

            The American Bus Association is a major travel industryorganized in the United States, consisting of 600 motor coach andtravel companies and 2,000 travel‑related businesses from acrossCanada and United States.  Simply put, to be recognized by thisgroup, is quite an honour.  Folklorama will now be featured inthe association's annual top 100 events publication which isdistributed throughout North America and overseas.

            The American Bus Association chose our Folklorama over 70other Canadian nominations because of its multicultural appeal,its reputation, its attendance, the theme and the accessibilityto motor coach travel.  This award recognizes the outstandingeffort put in by more than 20,000 volunteers who work efficientlytogether to create the largest multicultural festival in theworld.

            These people put in countless hours staffing booths, stampingpassports, preparing food, performing and demonstratinghandicrafts.  In fact, many give up part of their holidays justto work at Folklorama.  Through their enthusiasm, their teamwork,their professionalism, these volunteers have placed Folklorama,the city of Winnipeg and the entire province of Manitoba in thetourism spotlight, not only in Canada and United States, butwithin the world.

            As I mentioned earlier, one of the factors that resulted inFolklorama being named the top event in Canada for 1993 was themulticultural appeal Folklorama offers.  Multiculturalism is oneof this province's greatest assets.  It should be preserved andcherished.  Through Folklorama, thousands of Manitobans andvisitors to this province are able to enjoy our rich culture andour heritage.  More than 40 pavilions offer the sights, thesounds, the smells of our proud grassroots.

            I, like thousands of other people, have been a regularvisitor to Folklorama.  I am proud of Folklorama and what it doesfor preserving multiculturalism, and I ask all members in theAssembly to collectively congratulate the organizers andvolunteers of Folklorama.

           

* (1420)

 

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson):  Mr. Speaker, I would like leaveto make a nonpolitical statement.

Mr. Speaker:  Does the member for Radisson have leave to make anonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Ms. Cerilli:  I would like to join with the honourable memberfrom the government side and express congratulations to the FolkArts Council and the number of community groups in Winnipeg andthroughout Manitoba that ensure that Folklorama has become suchan important festival to the summer in Winnipeg.  I would like toexpress some appreciation to the American Bus Association for therecognition.

            Mr. Speaker, I also want to put on the record a couple ofconcerns that are expressed to me and I also expressed at thepress conference yesterday regarding Folklorama.  I just want tosay that a number of community groups have expressed to me theirconcern that Folklorama is in some ways causing them to go intodebt and that we have to look at carefully to ensure that the $30million coming to the economy from Folklorama is going to thecommunities that are doing the hard volunteer work and arerepresenting us so well.

            I would just like to encourage all of us to supportFolklorama and show that multiculturalism is a great asset andone of our strengths in Manitoba.  Thank you very much.

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster):  Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure formyself‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Does the honourable member for Inkster have leaveto make a nonpolitical statement? [agreed]

Mr. Lamoureux:  Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to stand upand to pay tribute to all the volunteers, and there are literallyhundreds of thousands of volunteers who have contributed in someway over the number of years that Folklorama has been inexistence.

            I know my colleague from St. Boniface was a mayor of the oneof the pavilions at one time.  For many of us inside thisChamber, we have participated in different ways, whether it wasparticipating as a member of the audience, possibly even gettingup or recruited on the floor to participate in a dance or asong‑‑for some of us who have volunteered our services, but mostimportantly, to those volunteers that take so much of theirpersonal time.  I am aware of individuals who will take theirholidays on or during Folklorama so that they can contribute thatmuch more towards ensuring that this particular event is asuccess.

            Mr. Speaker, I guess those are the individuals whom I reallywant to pay that special tribute to, those individuals who go farbeyond what most would expect in terms of being able, as I say,to taking their holidays, by immediately leaving their workplaceand going to the pavilions for a straight week.  It is no easyfeat.

            We are not talking about a small number of individuals.