LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Wednesday, December 16, 1992

 

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

 

PRAYERS

 

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

 

PRESENTING PETITIONS

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of N. Kyrluk, W. Atamanchuk, Jim Taylor and others requesting the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mrs. McIntosh) to use existing department resources to conduct a major investigation of gas prices in rural and northern Manitoba and to meet with the suppliers to discuss what can be done to reduce gas prices in those areas.

           

READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS

 

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member for Osborne (Mr. Alcock).  It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules (by leave).  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

             To the Legislature of the Province of Manitoba

             WHEREAS each year smoke from stubble burning descends upon the province of Manitoba; and

             WHEREAS the Parents Support Group of Children with Asthma has long criticized the harmful effects of stubble burning; and

             WHEREAS the smoke caused from stubble burning is not healthy for the general public and tends to aggravate the problems of asthma sufferers and people with chronic lung problems; and

             WHEREAS alternative practices to stubble burning are necessitated by the fact that the smoke can place some people in life‑threatening situations; and

             WHEREAS the 1987 Clean Environment Commission Report on Public Hearings, "Investigation of Smoke Problems from Agriculture Crop Residue and Peatland Burning," contained the recommendation that a review of the crop residue burning situation be conducted in five years time, including a re‑examination of the necessity for legislated regulatory control.

             THEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly will urge the government of Manitoba to pass the necessary legislation/regulations which will restrict stubble burning in the province of Manitoba.

 

* (1335)

* * *

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton).  It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

             The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

             WHEREAS the provincial government has not implemented the major recommendation of the Kopstein report which was to bring in no‑fault auto insurance; and

             WHEREAS over four years ago, the Kopstein report found that if Manitoba adopted no‑fault auto insurance it could have saved $40 million; and

             WHEREAS over two years ago, a second government report found that over $63 million could be saved if Manitoba adopted the Quebec plan of no‑fault auto insurance; and

             WHEREAS the provincial cabinet this year after being extensively lobbied, rejected a business plan that would have saved Manitoba motorists a further $2 million; and

             WHEREAS the rates for auto insurance are now being raised on average by 9.5 percent to 14.5 percent when the inflation is less than 1.3 percent making this the highest actual increase in the history of this province; and

             WHEREAS one in five car drivers in this province will now face increases of 13.5 percent; and

             WHEREAS the provincial government has not implemented other aspects of the implementation of the Kopstein report.

             WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Minister responsible for MPIC to consider implementing no‑fault auto insurance, and bringing in other recommendations of the Kopstein report that the government has delayed acting on.

 

* * *

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member for the Maples (Mr. Cheema).  It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House, and it complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

             The petition of the undersigned residents of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

 WHEREAS the principles of health care, namely the universality and comprehensiveness, should apply to the Pharmacare program; and

             WHEREAS the Pharmacare program's effectiveness is being eroded; and

             WHEREAS in the most recent round of delisting of pharmaceuticals, approximately 200 have been delisted by the government of Manitoba; and

             WHEREAS the strict submission deadline for Pharmacare receipts does not take into consideration extenuating circumstances which may have affected some people; and

             WHEREAS pharmaceutical refunds often take six weeks to reach people; and

             WHEREAS a health "smart card" would provide information to reduce the risk of ordering drugs which interact or are ineffective, could eliminate "double prescribing," and could also be used to purchase pharmaceuticals on the Pharmacare program, thereby easing the cash burden on purchasers.

             WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly urge the government of Manitoba to consider taking the necessary steps to reform the Pharmacare system to maintain its comprehensive and universal nature, and to implement the use of a health "smart card."

 

* * *

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux).  It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House, and it complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

             To the Legislature of the Province of Manitoba

             WHEREAS each year smoke from stubble burning descends upon the province of Manitoba; and

             WHEREAS the Parents Support Group of Children with Asthma has long criticized the harmful effects of stubble burning; and

             WHEREAS the smoke caused from stubble burning is not healthy for the general public and tends to aggravate the problems of asthma sufferers and people with chronic lung problems; and

             WHEREAS alternative practices to stubble burning are necessitated by the fact that the smoke can place some people in life‑threatening situations; and

             WHEREAS the 1987 Clean Environment Commission Report on Public Hearings, "Investigation of Smoke Problems from Agriculture Crop Residue and Peatland Burning," contained the recommendation that a review of the crop residue burning situation be conducted in five years' time, including a re‑examination of the necessity for legislated regulatory control.

             THEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly will urge the government of Manitoba to pass the necessary legislation/regulations which will restrict stubble burning in the province of Manitoba.

           

TABLING OF REPORTS

 

Mr. Speaker:  I am pleased to table the report of the Chief Electoral Officer on The Election Finances Act 1991.  Also, I am tabling the Ombudsman's Annual Report dated 1991.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Labour):  Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the Annual Report for 1991‑92 of the Department of Labour.

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Energy and Mines):  Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the Manitoba Energy Authority Tenth Annual Report for the year ended March 31, 1992, together with the Financial Statements for the 15 months ended June 30, 1992.

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs):  Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the Report on the Administration of the Rent Regulation Program for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1992.  As well, I would like to table the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission 69th Annual Report.

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship):  Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to table the Annual Report for 1991 for The Freedom of Information Act, the Annual Report 1991‑92 for the Manitoba Lotteries Foundation and the First Quarter and Second Quarter Reports for the period of April till September 1992 for the Manitoba Lotteries Foundation.

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Natural Resources):  Mr. Speaker, I would like to on this occasion now table the annual report of Venture Manitoba Tours Ltd. Financial Statements as at March 31, 1992 and 1991, together with the Auditor's Report.

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture):  Mr. Speaker, I would like to table two reports:  first, the Report of the Agricultural Producers' Organization Certification Agency respecting the determination of a certified organization; and secondly, a report from the same agency respecting the maximum membership fee of the certified organization.

 

* (1340)

 

Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Urban Affairs):  Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the Annual Report '91‑92 of the Fiscal Stabilization Fund, the report under the Financial Administration Act Relating to Supplementary Loan and Guarantee Authority and the 1991‑92 Annual Report of The Manitoba Housing and Renewal Corporation.

Introduction of Guests

 

Mr. Speaker:  Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery, where we have with us this afternoon 15 visitors from the Constable Development Program. They are under the direction of Mr. Brian Norris.  They are guests of the honourable Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae).

             Also, this afternoon we have 18 adults from the English Language Program from the William Avenue Training School.  They are under the director of Alice Landry.  This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Point Douglas (Mr. Hickes).

             On behalf of all members, I would like to welcome you here this afternoon.

 

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

 

Immigrant Investor Fund

Application Approval Process

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier (Mr. Filmon).

             Yesterday, in answers to questions, and in past occasions on questions we have posed to the government on the Immigrant Investor fund, the government has portrayed itself as removed from the process, distant from the process, kind of a technical bystander to the process, and has named the federal government and officials in their own department as the key decision makers in the process.

             I would like to ask the Premier directly:  Are ministers of his government directly involved in various projects that are before the federal government for immigrant investment projects for the province of Manitoba?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Mr. Speaker, yesterday in some detail, both inside and outside of this House, I outlined the procedure for the approval of Immigrant Investor Programs, whether they are a project specific fund or a syndicated fund.

             As I outlined yesterday, the fund request originally came in to the provincial government.  All of the necessary information is attached, draft prospectuses, financial information, business plans and so on.  Our administration reviews that.  If they make a positive recommendation, that then goes forward to the federal government, then they do their analysis and they have the final authority to decide whether or not a fund is in fact approved or not approved.  They can either accept the recommendation and approve it or they have the authority to reject it, because they have all of the ultimate clout in terms of the issuing of the visas and the necessary regulations and control on the ultimate plan.

             So we make a recommendation; if it is positive that is the process.  If it is negative, it goes back into the system and the people making the application deal with any concerns.  If they can address them, they can bring it forward again.

Mr. Doer:  Mr. Speaker, the minister and the Premier did not answer the question again, as they did not answer on six occasions yesterday.

 

Immigrant Investor Fund

Application Approval Process

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, I have a copy of the letter from one Mr. Ernst, the minister responsible for Industry, Trade and Tourism, to one Honourable Barbara McDougall, on February 6, 1991, wherein the minister asks the federal government, and I would quote, the Ottawa quest in Lakeview's eligibility to continue in the program relative to $35 million size guideline.  I might mention that I wrote to you on June 6 recommending that Lakeview be permitted to continue in the program, and was pleased to learn in September following extensive negotiations with your officials, the new conforming program was approved.

             Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier:  What is the involvement of his cabinet ministers in the Immigrant Investor fund.  He is carbon copied on this letter.  This letter was written and carbon copied to the Premier before he answered questions in the House in his own Estimates saying, oh, we are not involved in this, the cabinet is not involved.

             I would like to know the direct political involvement of the Conservative government.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, the member opposite seems not to want to understand or listen to the response of the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Stefanson).  He said precisely that.  He said it is reviewed by the department as to the job creation benefits for the Manitoba economy and based on that a recommendation is made to Ottawa, and they give the final approval.  Nothing is different in the letter that he put forward and nothing is different in what has been said by the minister or myself.

 

Immigrant Investor Fund Review

Terms of Reference

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, a final question to the Premier.

             Mr. Speaker, the government has had two different reviews that they have announced publicly and now they are on their third review, a so‑called internal audit, that they have commissioned under the Immigrant Investor fund.  We would like those terms of reference tabled.

             Do the terms of reference include the political decision making in the Filmon government at the deputy minister level and the ministerial level?  Has that audit been completed yet?  Has it been forwarded to the Attorney General's department yet, and will we see an expanded terms of reference dealing with the political involvement of the Filmon government in this process?

 

* (1345)

 

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Mr. Speaker, I outlined yesterday in this House, the current audit that is in process by an independent public accounting firm, a reputable firm here in Winnipeg is in the process of that audit.  I also outlined very clearly that we are expecting the results of that audit very shortly.  When the recommendations are received by me, I definitely intend to make them public, and we intend to act on those recommendations.  So I have no difficulty whatsoever indicating to this House, to the Leader of the Opposition, that those recommendations will become public and will be matters that will be addressed by this government.

             But I do take exception, Mr. Speaker, to once again the approach and style of the Leader of the Opposition in terms of the kinds of innuendoes and suggestions he makes about political interference in a program that we have put in place regulations and guidelines to address when it was introduced in 1986 when the Leader of the Opposition was part of a government when it was introduced.  They did not bring in any rules and regulations to deal with it.  They did not show any concern about this particular program.  We put in the regulations to address potential problems.

           

Health Care System Reform

Dr. Connie Curran Contract

 

Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (St. Johns):  Mr. Speaker, according to December 7 documents entitled Health Reform Update in which very specific details are enclosed about this Minister of Health's contract and contractual arrangements with one person by the name of Connie Curran with a firm called APM Consultants, according to documents provided by this own minister, the goal of APM associates is to help clients create the best market positions and defensible competitive advantages for their clients and later on in the document says, we will do whatever it takes for our clients.

             I would like to ask the Minister of Health:  What is the value of the contract with Connie Curran and APM Consultants? Will he table the contract with this firm and tell us why a Manitoban or Canadian organization was not qualified to assist this government on health care reform issues?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, I am quite pleased my honourable friend is posing this question.  The individual who is referenced in my honourable friend's question is Dr. Connie Curran who by all reports is probably the pre‑eminent nursing specialist in North America, Sir.

             Now, Mr. Speaker, I simply want to tell my honourable friend how the province first came to know of Dr. Curran and her credibility in the nursing profession in the United States as well as across Canada.  That was because the nurses of Canada in planning for the first ever national nursing symposium proposed by myself to my colleagues the Health ministers and hosted in Winnipeg in November of 1990, those nurses from across Canada asked Dr. Curran to present as the pre‑eminent expert in nursing in North America.

             It is nurses in Manitoba and across Canada who want Connie Curran to share her wealth of expertise with us in our health care system, not vice versa.  Mr. Speaker, in this case, I have accepted the advice of the nurses, whether they be union nurses, professional association nurses or nurses working in the facilities to bring Connie Curran in to help us plan nursing's future in Manitoba.  I have taken the nursing advice on this issue, Sir.

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis:  Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Minister of Health why he has employed an American firm located in Chicago, Illinois, to play a central role, not just to provide advice on nursing issues, but to provide a central, integral role to this minister's health care reform endeavours.  What are the details of this contract, which include 16 demonstration site projects to be selected by January 4, 1993?  Could the minister tell us precisely the nature of the contract, how much it is worth and name the 16 demonstration projects that the minister has selected‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

 

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Mr. Orchard:  Mr. Speaker, I will provide my honourable friend with those details when they are concluded because that is exactly the nature of Dr. Curran's presence in Manitoba, to work with MARN, MNU, the nursing vice‑presidents and nurses in Manitoba to determine the extent of her involvement in those demonstration projects, which, Sir, enhance the role of nursing in a reformed health care system.

             I sense from my honourable friend's question (a) that there is something the matter with Dr. Curran, not because of the knowledge she can bring, but by the fact that she is American, and I find that offensive.

             I further find it offensive that my honourable friend the New Democratic Health care critic would find fault with a recommendation and with an endorsement by nurses in Manitoba that Dr. Connie Curran assist us in planning health care reform.  Why is she against that desire by nurses in Manitoba, Sir?

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis:  My question, Mr. Speaker, is why this government has chosen to work very closely with a firm whose bottom line is to create competitive advantage to turn our hospital system into a market‑driven system.  It is the Americanization of our system, and I want to ask the Minister of Health why he has chosen to do this major consulting work with an American firm when in fact the United States administrative costs are that much higher than in Canada.  Why has he not chosen to work with Canadians who have expertise in this‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

Mr. Orchard:  Sir, for the third time, I want to indicate to my honourable friend that despite the fact that the member for St. Johns, as the New Democratic Party Health critic, does not believe Dr. Curran has the credentials to provide advice, to provide us with information on how nursing's role can be enhanced in the Canadian health care system, in the Manitoba reformed health care system in particular, I want to repeat to my honourable friend so it becomes obviously clear that the nursing professionals in Manitoba first of all chose, in preparation for the first ever national symposium on nursing, hosted in Winnipeg in November of 1990, to have Dr. Curran as one of the lead speakers.  From that, they were so impressed with her contribution that they are wanting us to work with her.  Nurses want that.  The NDP‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

 

Education System Reform

Advisory Board

 

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood):  Mr. Speaker, teachers, students, parents and school trustees are anxious that there be educational reform in Manitoba, but these same people are apprehensive as well.  So far, educational reform has amounted to a vague sentence in a vague throne speech.  The minister does have a resource available to her; The Education Administration Act establishes an advisory board and mandates it to meet every two months.

             Can the minister tell this House why the advisory board has not met since 1989, and why is the law being ignored?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, yes, there is an advisory board which may be active for the minister.  However, I think the important point for me to make to my honourable friend and to Manitobans is that a wide variety of Manitobans have wanted to be involved in the educational reform process and in particular, parents have asked to be a part of that process as well as educational stakeholders, business, industry and labour, and so our reform process will make sure and include all Manitobans who have expressed this interest.

 

Framework Tabling Request

 

Ms. Avis Gray (Crescentwood):  Mr. Speaker, can the minister then table a document which will outline the framework as to what this educational reform will consist of, and will she be using such established groups as the advisory boards?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, our process of reform is one in which some very central ideas have been put forward in the throne speech.  However, one thing that Manitobans and particularly stakeholders in education including business, industry, labour and parents have asked is that they be in on the details of the process and that a process not then be imposed upon them, a fully developed process then given to Manitobans.  Instead they have asked to be a part of the process.

Ms. Gray:  Mr. Speaker, members of The Manitoba Teachers' Society, school trustees, and other organizations do not feel that the throne speech, that document, gives them enough information on educational reform.

             Is the Minister today prepared to table a document which will outline to these groups what her framework is, the reform, how it will take place, so that in fact these people can then give their ideas to the minister so that the process will be a success, which is the goal for all‑‑

 

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Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

Mrs. Vodrey:  Mr. Speaker, of course, a meeting has already taken place.  A meeting took place the day after the throne speech with representative members of all of those organizations to make sure that those organizations had a chance to begin an exchange of ideas and a flow of ideas to begin to answer questions, put questions on the table as they arose.

             So, Mr. Speaker, I think it is very important for the member to know that process of consultation has already begun and began immediately following the throne speech.

           

Labour Force Development

Minister's Comments

 

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley):  Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Minister of Education why she misled the House on December 3, when she explicitly denied, following the Quebec approach to a Labour Force Development Board, where education and equity are not at the table and where business outnumbers labour by two to one.

             I want to table, Mr. Speaker, a memo of October 30 where the Deputy Minister of Education and Training committed to make an interim agreement with Ottawa to be, quote, and I am quoting: replaced during its term by a new arrangement similar to the terms of the Canada‑Quebec arrangement.

             Mr. Speaker, whom do we believe, the minister in the House or her deputy minister acting with Ottawa?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, an important feature that Quebec has been able to integrate into their model is in fact that they had a great deal of control in the setting up of the boards, the Quebec provincial board, and what Manitoba has wanted is to make sure that Manitoba also has the same input both with the national board and with the Government of Canada, two distinct groups, in the setting up of our process for Manitoba.

 

Government Commitment

 

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley):  Mr. Speaker, will the minister now, in the midst of the worst recession since the 1930s, make a commitment to developing a labour force development agreement with Ottawa that has equal participation of labour, business, education and equity groups?

             It has been three years, Mr. Speaker, that this government has given lost years to Manitobans.

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, I can tell the member that, very personally as minister, I have been working very hard over this past week to bring some closure to the signing of that document.  I look forward to be able to sign it in the near future.  Within that document, I look for representation of Manitobans on the board, but the member seems to have not completely understood that the signing of the document is one part and the setting up of the board is done in co‑ordination with the Canada Labour Force Development Board. That is somewhat different.

 

Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation

No-Fault Insurance

 

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):  Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the minister responsible for increasing Autopac rates in Manitoba.

             Mr. Speaker, the past year, MPIC lost over $25 million, largely as a result of increases in bodily injury claims of approximately $33 million.  Before we sit again next year, there will be thousands of very unhappy Manitobans facing heavy increases in their Autopac premiums.

             Will this minister finally change his position and take steps now to implement the no fault system strongly recommended by Judge Kopstein, which offers MPIC the greatest opportunity to reduce costs and also increase benefits?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act):  Mr. Speaker, let the member not leave the impression on the record that he did not involve politically the setting of the rates back four years ago.  That has now been turned over to the Public Utilities Board, so it is done in a public fashion.  The losses occurred as a result of bodily injury claims and a rather dramatic increase in hailstorm and accidents as a result of very treacherous driving conditions, but the major portion of that loss is driven by increased bodily injury claims.

             I suggest that the member also might wonder how happy those people who received those settlements would be if they were unavailable.

 

* (1400)

 

Agents' Fees

 

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):  Mr. Speaker, regrettably, the minister did not address the question.  The Kopstein report recommendation has to be implemented.

             When are we going to get some action from this minister?  Let me ask him though specifically‑‑one small step:  Will this minister reconsider and now allow MPIC to cap insurance brokers' fees at 3 percent and save at least a million dollars in Autopac hikes?  How about some tangible‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act):  The second bench is going to applaud that.

             Mr. Speaker, the corporation is actively pursuing all avenues of containing its costs.  When we compare the costs across the country and the motorists of this province look at the relationship between Autopac insurance and the cost of insurance in many of the other jurisdictions, we are still within a reasonably competitive range, but the fact is, the corporation is moving into the rate‑setting period for the coming year, and they will be taking measures to contain their costs.

 

Agassiz Youth Centre

Sex Offender Program

 

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James):  Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

             Mr. Speaker, approximately three weeks ago, the Department of Justice effectively cancelled the sex offender program at Agassiz Youth Centre in Portage la Prairie.  Approximately 25 young offenders were in that program, which was an intensive 24‑hours‑a‑day program for sexually deviant youth who had been sentenced by judges to both open and secure custody but to a sex offender program.

             Mr. Speaker, my question:  Given that the only other sex offender program is at Manitoba Youth Centre, which is presently overcapacitated and has too many to handle in that program, where are the 24 young offenders, who have already been assessed as requiring that therapy, going to get the therapy now that the program has been cancelled at Agassiz Youth Centre in Portage la Prairie?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General):  As usual, Mr. Speaker, with a question of this nature and coming from where it is, I shall ascertain the veracity of the preamble to the honourable member's question.

Mr. Edwards:  Mr. Speaker, I am sure the people of Portage la Prairie and, indeed, members of this House would appreciate a substantive answer to that question about 24 young offenders.

             In any event, let me ask the minister if he has received any assurance or opinion from the federal Solicitor General responsible for the Young Offenders Act as to whether or not he is even legally allowed to have both open and secure custody offenders in the same cottage now that that program has been cancelled, because the only way that they were allowed to do that previously was because they had the program.  Now that there is no program, there is no distinction in how those offenders are being treated in that cottage.  Yet, the judge has‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member has put his question.

Mr. McCrae:  It is completely understandable that the honourable member would like to have an answer to a question in this regard, because the issue of violent offenders is one that this government views very seriously.

             The honourable member knows that the federal corrections people, supported by myself, have taken a position that violent offenders ought to be treated somewhat differently from the other kind of offenders, the property offenders.  So I think it is quite consistent with this government's program respecting zero tolerance, not only in relation to violence generally, but sexual violence as well.

             So the honourable member's question may indeed have some elements of truth in it, and if it does, then I will be pleased to ascertain that and answer the honourable member's question.

Mr. Edwards:  My final question for the minister, Mr. Speaker.       Prior to cancelling the program at Portage la Prairie at Agassiz Youth Centre, did the minister make any plans to deal with these 24 young offenders who have been assessed as requiring therapy?  Are there any plans to give them the therapy they need?

Mr. McCrae:  This question will also be answered when I answer the other ones, Mr. Speaker.

 

Indigenous Women's Collective

Funding

 

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas):  Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister for Native Affairs.

             On August 27 of 1991, the minister announced that his government was going to be providing $70,000 in funding to the Indigenous Women's Collective.  The minister stated his government's commitment that quote, native people and native women especially should have an organization that serves as an effective unifying force within the community.

             Is this government still committed to this objective of providing Manitoba's aboriginal women with the means to maintain effective organizations?

Hon. James Downey (Minister responsible for Native Affairs):  Mr. Speaker, unlike the New Democratic Party that preceded us, where they got absolutely nothing, we, in the budgetary process, will give fair consideration to all groups.

Mr. Hickes:  Mr. Speaker, that fair consideration that the minister is stating, I will table a letter that he has written to the organization which clearly shows that their funding is in jeopardy.

             Mr. Speaker, when you announce a program speaking to the future on one hand and then on the other hand start cutting off the funding‑‑so could the Minister of Native Affairs confirm to the House that the full funding will be there for the organization?

Mr. Downey:  Mr. Speaker, I am sure the member would appreciate there is a process that has to be gone through as it relates to the development of budgets for next year's expenditures, and details of those decisions will be answered when it comes to the Estimates process of next year.

             Mr. Speaker, I think it is fair that this government approached it in an open and honest way, that we have got a situation where our revenues basically have not increased for the Province of Manitoba.  We have taken a sound policy decision not to raise personal income tax and not to raise the sales tax.  Now if the opposition are advocating raising all taxes, putting more pressure on the earners of our wealth, then we will let them advocate that policy.

 

Gross Revenue Insurance Plan

Interest Charges

 

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin):  Mr. Speaker, as we approach the end of this year, farmers continue to be in difficult financial straits in this province, yet this Minister of Agriculture is still charging farmers over 8 percent on unpaid premiums on GRIP and crop insurance even while this minister continues to owe those same farmers millions of dollars in initial GRIP payments, and he is not paying interest on those unpaid GRIP payments that are coming to the farmer.

             I want to ask the Minister of Agriculture:  Will he now do the right thing, stop this insensitivity and unfairness by this minister and immediately stop charging interest to these farmers while he continues to owe them millions of dollars in GRIP payments?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture):  Mr. Speaker, that member fails to realize we are talking about a joint federal‑provincial program.  Two or three months ago, I wrote the federal minister if we could have a consideration for not charging interest during this period of time.  He reported back, said no.

Mr. Plohman:  This minister cannot get any results with the federal government and for himself.

             I want to ask this minister:  Will he now ensure that this GRIP payment is made immediately so that this interest charge that he is making on farmers right now will not eat away as it is doing right now on these GRIP payments that are coming to farmers.

Mr. Findlay:  Mr. Speaker, it is rather interesting.  This member spoke against GRIP; he hated GRIP.  He said it is no good, the farmers of Manitoba do not want it, and now all of a sudden he says it is the best thing since sliced bread.  It is rather interesting.  Manitoba farmers know how good this program is. Those farmers in the area who were affected, particularly north of No. 1 Highway, with conditions like early frost, are really going to receive substantial benefits from revenue insurance.

             The cheques have started to go into the mail early this week if not late last week.  Those cheques, those interim cheques are on the way, and they will be receiving many of them before the end of this year.

 

Sunday Shopping

Public Hearings

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  Yesterday we saw this government filibuster their own bill, their Sunday shopping bill.  Mr. Speaker, rural communities, Chambers of Commerce, councillors across the province are against this bill, but this government is absolutely insensitive to the impacts of it on rural Manitoba.

             I want to ask the minister responsible:  Are we going to have a vote on this bill today?  Is this government going to proceed to public hearings across rural Manitoba?  Is this government‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

 

* (1410)

 

Point of Order

 

Hon. Jim Ernst (Acting Government House Leader):  Mr. Speaker, the question is out of order.  The question is a matter of House business; it will be dealt with by House leaders later today.

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader):  If the minister is raising this as a point of order, Mr. Speaker, the minister should be aware that it is quite common to ask questions.  In fact, we have been asking, since this bill was tabled, whether this government would have the courage to take this bill to public hearings throughout the province of Manitoba to listen to all Manitobans.  It is entirely in order to ask that.

Mr. Speaker:  We have consistently said that matters dealing with House business should be dealt with by House leaders, so I would ask the honourable member for Swan River to rephrase her question.

 

* * *

Ms. Wowchuk:  Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister responsible for the legislation on Sunday shopping whether or not we are going to have public hearings in rural Manitoba to look at the impacts of this bill on the rural communities and whether or not this government will consider using the Rural Development Institute to do a study on what the impacts of this legislation are.

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): In response to the question, Mr. Speaker, that bill will be called later today, I understand.  We have a process here, as part of our parliamentary process, in terms of committees which we have, amongst the most open process in all of Canada for individual Manitobans to have an opportunity to appear at committee in presence or in writing in terms of putting forth their position.  Certainly that is a part of a process that will be followed.  As the Minister of Urban Affairs (Mr. Ernst) has outlined, this matter will be dealt with further in the day, I am sure.

 

Unemployed Help Centre

Funding

 

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson):  Mr. Speaker, in the throne speech only a few short weeks ago, the government made no recognition of the serious situation in terms of jobs in this province.  Since that time, we have had the action of the federal government on unemployment insurance, which according to statistics we have obtained, will result in 183 Manitoba families a week being cut off unemployment insurance because of the changes in regulations, 183 families.

             I would like to ask the First Minister whether he has raised this matter with the federal government in this horrendous attack on working people, more specifically, whether he will now reinstate, as both opposition parties have been saying repeatedly for the last three years, the funding for the unemployed help centres, to at least have someone in there fighting on behalf of working Manitobans.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Even since the throne speech, there have been a number of announcements that have been positive announcements with respect to job creation in Manitoba, the moving of Utlas from Toronto to Winnipeg, with 45 high‑tech jobs, the establishment of a power engineering centre by Black and Veatch in Winnipeg, another minimum of 45 and up to 100 additional high‑tech jobs for engineers and technologists and so on, announcements being made, of course, that our growth for 1992, according to the Conference Board, will be at 2.2 percent, tied for second best in the country, Mr. Speaker, indication that there will‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

 

Point of Order

 

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader):  Mr. Speaker, I realize that the government is allowed to filibuster its own bills, but it is not allowed to filibuster Question Period.  I asked a specific question about unemployment insurance and about the government reinstating unemployed help centre funding.