LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Thursday, March 18, 1993

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

PRAYERS

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES

Mr. Jack Reimer (Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the Second Report of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources.

Mr. Clerk (William Remnant): Your Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources presents the following as its Second Report:

Your committee met on Tuesday, March 2, 1993, Tuesday, March 9, 1993, and Tuesday, March 16, 1993, at 7:30 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building to consider the Annual Report of the Manitoba Hydro‑Electric Board for the year ended March 31, 1992.

Mr. John McCallum, chairperson, Manitoba Hydro‑Electric Board, and Mr. Robert Brennan, president and chief executive officer, Manitoba Hydro, provided such information as was requested with respect to the Annual Report and business of the Manitoba Hydro‑Electric Board.

Your committee has considered the Annual Report of the Manitoba Hydro‑Electric Board for the year ended March 31, 1992, and has adopted the same as presented.

Mr. Reimer: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Pallister), that the report of the committee be received.

Motion agreed to.

TABLING OF REPORTS

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Family Services): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the Supplementary Information for Legislative Review for the Department of Family Services.

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the Annual Report for 1991‑1992 for Centre Culturel Franco‑Manitobain.

Introduction of Guests

Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery, where we have with us this afternoon from the Neepawa Area Collegiate, forty‑four Grade 9 students under the direction of Mr. Bob Ferguson. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Environment (Mr. Cummings).

On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to welcome you here this afternoon.

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

Student Social Allowance Program

Student Statistics

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the First Minister.

Mr. Speaker, this week we have been asking a number of questions to the Premier on the long‑term economic impact of the cutbacks in the student social allowance provisions that are in the province of Manitoba, cutbacks that we believe are affecting the most vulnerable people in our society and will have long‑term negative impact on Manitobans and on the Manitoba economy. Yesterday, the Conservative government answered a question in this House, in its evasive way, by stating that many of these young people live at home with their parents and therefore could continue their education living at home.

Mr. Speaker, this is a serious, serious issue for at least a thousand Manitobans. The quote is: For many of these young people who are trying to finish their high school, they can remain at home with their parents. Others can access other support programs.

I would like to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon): How many students are affected? How many of these students can live at home, based on the government's analysis, and how many students will be cut off of their educational opportunities with the decision that has been made by the government?

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Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Family Services): Mr. Speaker, the member asked the other day how many students are involved in the program at this time. Just over 1,100 students are on student social allowance, again, a program unique to Manitoba, a program that is not offered in any other jurisdiction in Canada. I would like to correct the member. I indicated that one of the options for a number of young people who have turned 18 or 19, who are returning to take their high school education, I indicated one of their alternatives, for some of them, would be to live at home with their parents. Others who perhaps have other circumstances will have to be involved in finding other solutions to that situation.

Alternative Programs

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon) what other solutions he has to a person named Mrs. Neufeld. The Premier makes the decisions. He should be willing to stand up in this House and justify his decision. I am sick and tired of asking questions.

Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Premier: What is he saying to Mrs. Neufeld, a 24‑year‑old parent of a one‑and‑a‑half‑year‑old girl, who is married to a person who is also going to the Adult Education Centre and is receiving assistance as full‑time students under the student social assistance program? They want the opportunity of an education. They feel it is the only way they can get on their feet. We must have an education for our future. It is not a luxury; it is a necessity for us to have a meaningful occupation. This budget has been a gigantic ripple effect. We are people with lives, not numbers.

What answer does this Premier have to that person, where the Minister of Family Services has not given us any alternatives, any options for those people so they can get a living, have some dignity and have a future rather than have despair under the Tory government?

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Family Services): Mr. Speaker, we have many thousands and thousands of students in Manitoba who are aged 18 to 24, where most of these students fit in, who access this unique program in Manitoba, one again that I would mention that other provinces do not provide for students. There is assistance in other forms for them to continue their education. The profile of a number of these is that they are young 18‑ and 19‑ and 20‑year‑olds. I have indicated that there are other options for them. One of the options is to remain at home with their parents and complete their high school education.

Many students work on a part‑time basis and pursue education at the same time. For those who need to rely on the safety net offered by this department, there are other options that they can access.

Funding Elimination Impact

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, the Premier did not answer the question. The minister has not answered the question. He did not answer the question yesterday; he did not answer the question the day before.

We are asking: How many people are impacted, and what is the long‑term economic impact on these people? What options do they have with the government cutback?

These are two parents with a one‑and‑a‑half‑year‑old child, Mrs. Neufeld writes in a letter, which I will table to the minister. There is a human face to these whimsical Conservative decisions that are affecting the most vulnerable people in our society. [interjection]

Well, Mr. Speaker, if we could get some specific answers, we could start debating the government.

Everyone says to us, stay in school‑‑[interjection] Well, if the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) wants to answer, it would be the first time we ever received an answer in this House‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Neufeld says in her letter today‑‑which I will table for the government to see the human face of their decisions‑‑everyone says "stay in school," "no education, no job;" then they cut the very means of support for people taking that advice. It is not fair.

Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon): What long‑term economic advantage is this for the people of Manitoba, for those thousand people who are affected by this decision? What is the long‑term impact with people not having an education, not having an opportunity and not having hope in our great province of Manitoba?

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Family Services): Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition indicates that he has not been able to get information. I have indicated today quite clearly, there are just over 1,100 students who are accessing this program which will come to an end at the end of June.

The member refers to budget decisions as whimsical decisions. I would ask the member to realize what is happening across this country, at the federal level, at the provincial level in every province in this country, where there are huge deficits, that everybody is having to make decisions regarding these deficits. These are not whimsical decisions. These are very serious decisions.

Workforce 2000 Grant Criteria

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Mr. Speaker, this government's commitment to education has been shown in so many ways: $7 million from the community colleges, a $2‑million clawback and then a rollback to universities, cuts to school boards, cuts to daycare and finally the elimination of the student social allowances program. The only new initiative we have seen from this government has been Workforce 2000, grants to the private sector to employ and train existing employees.

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I would like the Minister of Education to explain how she justifies the provision of grants for training to, for example, Wardrop Engineering for 34 people to be trained at a rate of $625 an hour, to Canadian National Building Materials for 24 people to be trained at a rate of $527 per hour, or even, for example, Glendale Golf and Country Club for 30 people to be trained at $177 an hour. Does the minister have any justification for the high cost of this training when any one of those $10,000 grants would have kept two young Manitobans in school for a whole year?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, my honourable friend does not seem to understand the purpose of Workforce 2000. The purpose of Workforce 2000 is to assist people who are currently working to be upgraded in their skills and allow their small business also to be upgraded, as well as larger corporations. I think that the honourable member should know that Workforce 2000 deals with small business people as well as larger, and it is a cost‑shared program.

Ms. Friesen: The fact that it is a cost‑shared program means that the numbers I quoted were low. They could be double and triple that.

I would like to ask the minister: Would she acknowledge that the Workforce 2000 grant of over $8,000 to a printing company to train their employees was intended to enable them to take the jobs of the 59 Queen's Printer workers whom her government fired?

Ms. Vodrey: Mr. Speaker, I would like to start with the statistics that the honourable member raises because frankly I put those into doubt. She continually raises a series of statistics and statements when she starts her questions, and they have not always been accurate. She said the other day that Saskatchewan had no differentiation in tuition fees. That is wrong‑‑for visa students. So, I have to say that the credibility of that member as she states statistics needs to be questioned. Then, in relation to programs where corporations, companies and small businesses have met the criteria for Workforce 2000, they have assisted those employees to remain employed and the company to become more productive.

Workforce 2000

Dave's Quick Print

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Mr. Speaker, my question was quite simple. Did Dave's Quick Print receive a grant from Workforce 2000 of $8,000, and did Dave's Quick Print receive the jobs that the 59 people who were fired by this government from the Queen's Printer had to give up at the insistence of this government?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship): Mr. Speaker, again, the preamble from the member opposite is absolutely wrong.

There were 59 employees in the Queen's Printer, and in fact, there will be somewhat less within government, but we are finding out that within the private sector, all of those different companies that have tendered and have been successful indeed for getting government business will be providing that service at approximately 1.6 cents per copy when it was costing government 5 cents per copy.

Obviously, members of the opposition would rather have inefficiencies within government and waste and mismanagement than having government dollars spent on the priorities of health, education and social services.

Aboriginal Justice Inquiry Report

Government Commitment

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

Mr. Speaker, this week the government cut funding to 11 native friendship centres. I want to ask the Minister of Justice about those cuts in the context of his responsibility for aboriginal justice in this province.

For three years he and his colleagues gave promises that the AJI report would be respected, and they could hardly wait for the report to come out. They spent three years, $3 million singing the praises of that commission. That report, when it came down, specifically called for‑‑[interjection] Mr. Speaker, for the edification of the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns), the fact is that the Minister of Justice spent three years telling us that he would respect the decisions of that‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for St. James with your question, please.

Mr. Edwards: Mr. Speaker, will the minister acknowledge now that this government has absolutely no intention, never had and will not have, of complying with the spirit and intent of the AJI which called specifically for increases in organizations that brought the native and non‑native‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member has put his question.

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Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, the question and the speech that preceded it raise a number of inaccuracies. I think the honourable member was saying that before we even received the report from the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, this government was binding itself to each and every recommendation. That has never happened, and the honourable member knows that.

With respect to certain key recommendations in that report, the recommendation of separate systems of justice, for example, we have been very clear. We reject that recommendation. We have been repeatedly clear on that point.

Instead, we hoped to have the assistance of the aboriginal leadership of this province in putting into motion a number of initiatives that would vastly improve the justice system as it pertains to aboriginal people. We have not had the co‑operation that we have needed, but that has not stopped us, Mr. Speaker, as you will find out when I give my answer to the next question.

Mr. Edwards: This minister has never given that report the time of day. Every member of this House, every member of the native community and everyone in this province knows that, Mr. Speaker.

Aboriginal Friendship Centres

Funding Elimination Justification

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James): Again for the minister, Mr. Speaker.

Can the minister indicate whether or not he took into account, his government took into account, the December 1990 report on native friendship centres in this province which specifically indicated the success of these centres in their tasks, indicated that they had met and exceeded the expectations? On what basis did this government cut funding to eleven native friendship centres?

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Family Services): Mr. Speaker, the member has to be aware that across this country many institutions, organizations and governments are looking at the way they do business, restructuring, having to do with less.

We have made some very, very difficult decisions in regard to the friendship centres. The province is responsible for a little less than 13 percent of their global budget of all the friendship centres.

Friendship centres, with the remaining almost 90 percent of their budgets, will have the ability to carry on the majority of the work that they had done in the past. The boards of those centres will have to make some difficult decisions about what programs they adjust within their centres and what they carry forth with.

Meeting Request

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James): Mr. Speaker, for the Minister of Family Services then.

Did the Minister of Family Services do what this report recommended at page 28 and get together with the people who are running these friendship centres so that the government might better understand what they did?

The comment at page 26 of that report was specifically: The report group concluded that the government had no understanding of the accomplishments of friendship centres and the struggle of the majority of the membership, and that the government had a lack of belief in the whole concept of friendship centres.

Did the government take the friendship centres up on their offer to sit down and discuss the merits‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Family Services): Mr. Speaker, I can assure the member for St. James that we have met with the umbrella group from the friendship centres. Within the past few months, I had the opportunity to visit one of the friendship centres in Portage la Prairie.

Again, I would point out to him that these are very difficult times, as we look at budgetary deliberations at the municipal level, that other governments across this land are going through making very tough decisions.

I can assure the member that we looked carefully at the annual reports that are brought forward by the friendship centres prior to us making this decision.

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Student Social Allowance Program

Funding Elimination Impact

Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (St. Johns): The Premier (Mr. Filmon) will now have seen the letter from Shirley Neufeld and realized the human impact of a devastating cutback in the form of the student social allowance program.

Hundreds of other students are writing, students like Claudette Lacroix, who says: Student social allowance is my only means of support. I have been trying to improve my education so I can get a better job, so I can get off welfare.

People like Hung Nguyen, who says: Please do not hurt us. Do not cut our only lifesaver. After school, we are sure to‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for St. Johns with her question.

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis: My question to the Premier is: Does he now realize the impact of his devastating decision in terms of cutting the student social allowance program? Does he not realize that not investing now in people's education and training will only cost us much more dearly in the future?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, what I do recognize is that nine other provincial governments in this country have found that they were not able to support such a program within their budgetary means, that nine other provinces, in looking at their priorities‑‑three of them being New Democratic‑‑could not see their way clear to supporting such a program.

What I do realize, Mr. Speaker, from looking at the issues that are being dealt with, very difficult issues by people right across this country and indeed in every civilized country in the world, is that programs that were brought into place in the '70s and the '80s may no longer be sustainable in the '90s when we are left with a debt legacy from the previous administration that causes us‑‑that built in place‑‑

An Honourable Member: Grant Devine over there.

Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, Grant Devine was not in this province, but Howard Pawley and Gary Doer were. They are the ones who built in the debt base that we inherited at a rate of $450 million of annual interest costs. That is what it cost us for their spending in their years in government. That $450 million is not available to be spent on programs such as this.

Mr. Speaker, it is very, very difficult for us to be able to make ends meet, to be able to spend the money on these programs that are found to be unsustainable by every other province in the country.

Funding Elimination Justification

Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (St. Johns): Mr. Speaker, it was the Premier of Manitoba who said just a few months ago, education and training are the keys that unlock a world of opportunity.

Mr. Speaker, how can the minister, the Premier and this entire government now justify cutting the student social allowance program, which in effect means taking away the key from the door of opportunity‑‑not only that, it means throwing away the key of opportunity‑‑for hundreds of students in the province of Manitoba?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I repeat, because the member for St. Johns has difficulty understanding. The fact of the matter is that nine other provinces have said that this program is unaffordable to them, nine other provinces, including‑‑

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, I would ask the members to give me the courtesy of listening to my response. I listened to their question. I am up to try and respond to it. If they do not want to hear the response, they should not ask the question.

Nine other provinces, including‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

Alternative Programs

Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (St. Johns): Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier what alternatives he is offering, what other programs are available to people like Sherry Wurtz who writes: I left my home, my family and my friends just to come to the city and fulfill my dream. With one stroke of the pen, the government has destroyed the chance of living my dream. I cannot help thinking, hoping and praying that some way, somehow I did not come all this way just for it to end here. What is the answer to Sherry and‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member has put her question.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the response is that nine other provinces, including three New Democratic provinces, cannot afford to fund this kind of program. However commendable it may be, this program is one of many programs that we have to look at and say, there is no longer enough money to pay the interest on the debt that was accumulated, over $450 million of it as a result of expenditures by New Democratic administrations, no longer available for us to pay for this program.

We cannot, regrettably, afford many of the things that were sustainable in the '70s and the '80s that are not sustainable now.

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Sunday Shopping

Rural Consultations

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Mr. Speaker, when this government unilaterally introduced Sunday shopping, they promised rural Manitobans that they would have a voice in assessing the impacts of this initiative on them.

Mr. Speaker, we are getting letters and calls from councillors, Chambers of Commerce, all residents, business people in rural Manitoba wanting some assurance that they are going to have a voice in expressing their views, a voice in this decision.

Will the Premier make a commitment to these people that they will be heard before the government makes a decision on the future of this initiative?

Hon. James Downey (Acting Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Mr. Speaker, before the government embarked upon this issue that the member refers to‑‑there is a trial period that has been established to determine the results of such an activity as Sunday shopping in Manitoba. The results of that program will be reviewed.

There will be, as normal, an opportunity for all Manitobans to participate before a committee of the Legislature at the Legislative Building to make their thoughts known when any legislation of that nature is brought forward.

Standing Committee Referral

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Mr. Speaker, the time line is running out. There are not only concerns from business people, there are concerns from church people who have a concern about the legality of this program. When is this going to happen? When is their voice going to be heard?

Hon. James Downey (Acting Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Mr. Speaker, as I indicated, when legislation or any activity is taking place by this Legislature, there is an opportunity for any and all Manitobans to bring their thoughts forward between a committee of all members of the Legislature.

It would be helpful, and I am certainly not pointing any fingers at the official opposition, but it would be helpful to get on with the business of the Legislature, doing Estimates, debating some of those things that the people of Manitoba have expected us to come here to do.

Sunday Shopping

Government Analysis

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Mr. Speaker, there is no reason why this government cannot call this committee and hear what the people are saying.

I want to ask the Premier: Have they done the studies? Have they done any assessment of all of this, and is there any information available on the real impact, because this is destroying business in rural Manitoba? What assessment have you done on this?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): The answers to that are yes, yes and yes, Mr. Speaker.

Multicultural Community Politicization

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, the Manitoba Intercultural Council has provided for all Manitobans, through elected representatives from all the different ethnic communities, many positive things. I just go back to the report that they had tabled a while back dealing with combatting racism as one of those things in which the minister herself even said that it was a good document.

The government has decided to take away the funding from MIC, yet on the other hand, it finds the resources in which to go into the politicization of multiculturalism.

My question to the minister, and I will make it as simple as possible, and that is: How does the minister justify cutting back on the Manitoba Intercultural Council while at the same time having resources going to the politicization of multiculturalism in the province of Manitoba?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister responsible for Multiculturalism): I have heard the critic from the Liberal Party on several occasions in this House even bring forward private member's bills, Mr. Speaker, in order to have government remove governmental supposed interference with the Manitoba Intercultural Council.

Mr. Speaker, we had legislation here that both opposition parties spoke in favour of that did exactly what is happening today. That is, in fact, removing the heavy hand of government from a community organization that should have the ability to elect its own members and indeed set its own role and mandate, hire its own staff and serve the community that it is elected to serve.

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Manitoba Multiculturalism Act

Manitoba Intercultural Council

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, the government said that they followed what the Liberals were saying. We were saying to take away the political appointments, to stop hiring the executive assistant from the Manitoba Intercultural Council. We do not want‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Question, please.

Mr. Lamoureux: ‑‑what the Premier (Mr. Filmon) wants, and that is MIC to die. He has taken away the whole thing. Mr. Speaker, that is not what the Liberals were suggesting‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. This is not a time for debate. The honourable member for Inkster with your question, please.

Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, I am suggesting to the government that they be responsible and not politicize the multicultural community, and that is in fact what they are doing.

My question to the minister is: Can the minister tell this House if she has any plans on incorporating MIC or any other organization such as MIC into the multicultural act, like we had suggested in June of last year?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister responsible for Multiculturalism): Mr. Speaker, unlike the critic for the Liberal Party, I have every confidence in the multicultural community in this great province of ours, Manitoba, in fact to continue with the Manitoba Intercultural Council, which is completely controlled by that community, so that they can set their own role and their mandate and deliver the kinds of services that the multicultural community has become accustomed to having.

Manitoba Intercultural Council

Alternative Organizations

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, my question to the minister is‑‑she will try to justify her actions by saying that she is giving back to the multicultural community their own independence. She cannot justify the actions that she is doing and what she is doing within the multicultural community, given the appointments that she has made.

My question to the minister is: Is there any commitment from this government to a nonpolitical, apolitical organization that will do the types of things that MIC did in the past?

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister responsible for Multiculturalism): Mr. Speaker, this government is committed to the entire multicultural community. We provide assistance and work together very effectively with many, many community organizations to try and attempt to address their needs through government programs and other activities that are ongoing. We will continue to do that. We will work with and meet with anyone who makes that request, and we will reach out into the community to try to support all Manitobans.

Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation

Road Maintenance

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister responsible for the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation, which lost, I note, $14 million in the first quarter of the current fiscal year.

Mr. Speaker, the City of Winnipeg, due to funding cuts, has reduced the maintenance and repair of city roads. Indeed there were many accidents due to ice and snow that had not been removed.

I ask the minister: Did the minister and his colleagues raise concerns with the City of Winnipeg over the impact on MPIC of this cut in road maintenance?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): Mr. Speaker, I am not exactly sure where this question is leading, but I believe the member is asking for people to pay for city street maintenance out of their Autopac premiums, and I do not agree.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Leonard Evans: They have it totally reversed.

Vehicle Safety Inspections

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, I have a question very directly for the Minister of MPIC.

Since cutting vehicle safety inspections will result in more unsafe vehicles operating on the road, I want to ask the same minister: Did the minister consult with his colleagues before cutting vehicle safety inspections by more than 80 percent?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): This is a very difficult situation, where the corporation is faced with rather large capital costs in order to put the equipment back on the road. This is a pause in the volume of inspection, but a maintenance program is being carried on using the existing Autopac claims centre line. The numbers, I believe, will be somewhat larger than what were indicated in the reports today.

Mr. Leonard Evans: Very specifically, Mr. Speaker, why did this minister decide to increase brokers' fees by some $1 million this year instead of keeping car inspections at the same level as previous years?

Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, I think it is unfortunate that the member refers to students, because one of the things that we believe the corporation has to continue to put a high priority on is driver training, and those are the places where we want the dollars spent at this most critical time.

Education System Reform

Government Strategy

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): Mr. Speaker, the Manitoba Association of School Trustees are beginning their annual convention in Winnipeg today amid confusion and in total absence of leadership from this Minister of Education. Confusion reigns supreme in this province as a result of this government's actions. The only plan for reform from this minister seems to be cutbacks and intrusion into local decision making. There is no plan for a reform of education as she likes to say.

I want to say, Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that she received the task force report on education reform almost a year ago, will the Minister of Education now tell us what action she has taken on the task force report that was given to her almost a year ago? Will she be outlining a plan of reform including goals, objectives and a plan to the trustees at their annual meeting?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, the member has his facts somewhat wrong. The task force that reported to me was a task force on the reform of The Public Schools Act. The Public Schools Act is a piece of legislation that provides authority for school divisions to do their work, for school trustees to do their work. This was not the document on education reform. This was a document on the reform of The Public Schools Act.

Mr. Plohman: I just asked the minister if she is going to provide any direction, any plan for reform at the trustees' meeting this weekend. She can surely answer that.

As well, I want also to ask her today whether she will provide a listing of the local levies and the additional dollars that were needed by school divisions as projected by her department and herself when she announced the funding announcement in February, about a month ago, as well as the actual figures that were tabled with her as a result of the March 15 deadline that is passed now.

Mrs. Vodrey: Mr. Speaker, to answer, will I be tabling to the trustees over this weekend a plan of reform, no, I will not, because reform is ongoing. Reform is also a process of consultation which the member‑‑[interjection] Well, it sounds to me that this member would simply like to bring forward a plan and present it.

In the throne speech, we did outline areas for reform and reform discussion areas such as a curriculum teaching practice and assessment. Those are ongoing. We are having discussions with the school trustees in addition to other partners in education, including the parents, Mr. Speaker, which I think is very important.

Mr. Plohman: Their version of reform, Mr. Speaker, is neither new or innovative. It is simply the Social Credit actions and cutbacks in education.

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Dauphin with your question, please.

Mr. Plohman: That is all that happened in B.C.‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Mr. Plohman: ‑‑and that is what they are following right now.

Education System

Professional Development Days

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): I want to ask this minister: In light of the fact that yesterday she is quoted as saying that she does not intend to roll back teachers' salaries, is this minister planning to bring in legislation that will eliminate the professional development days or turn the jurisdiction of those days over to school divisions?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, I would start by asking the member to listen to the information that will be coming from Saskatchewan later today, and I think he will find that very interesting.

In addition to that‑‑well, he is very busy, I will answer when he asks his next question.

Health Care System

St. Boniface Area Services

Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Mr. Speaker, over 18 months ago, home care and mental health services were moved out of St. Boniface community and moved downtown. The Minister of Health promised concerned community groups on November 20, 1991, that the move was, and I quote: I want to stress that this relocation is a temporary measure.

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Mr. Speaker, yet a year and a half later their services are still outside of the French community.

My question is to the minister: If the Minister of Health is committed to community‑centred health care, can he tell this House when will these offices be relocated in the community in which they belong?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I will provide my honourable friend with current information after I make inquiries to gain such.

Mr. Gaudry: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the same minister. Winnipeg Region's space has been bogged down in the minister's department. To effect efficiencies in housing staff, his senior staff need to be moved out of the ivory tower in Eaton Place, and they do not want to.

Will the minister direct his staff to be flexible in their office location so that the front‑line health services can serve the community better?

Mr. Orchard: We are always encouraging staff and the ministry across government, in our funded agencies, in school divisions, in universities and in all of the areas that we fund across government, to show greater flexibility in leadership. My department is no exception, Sir.

Mr. Gaudry: Mr. Speaker, the minister has indicated that he will supply me with the information, but is he prepared to table in the House the correspondence ensuring that the plans are proceeding to put home care and mental health care back into the St. Boniface community?

Mr. Orchard: Mr. Speaker, as I indicated to my honourable friend, I will provide to him an update in terms of the scheduling, which ought to answer that last question.

Lynn