LEGISLATIVE
ASSEMBLY OF
Monday,
March 22, 1993
The House met at 1:30
p.m.
PRAYERS
ROUTINE
PROCEEDINGS
PRESENTING
PETITIONS
Mr. George Hickes (Point
Douglas): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of
Brenda McBride, Alfred Coumont, Maureen Paskaruk and others, requesting the
Family Services minister (Mr. Gilleshammer) consider restoring funding for the
friendship centres in
Mr. Gregory Dewar
(Selkirk): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of
Dean Bird, Catherine Bird, Conrad Demetruk and others, requesting the Family
Services minister (Mr. Gilleshammer) consider restoring funding for the
friendship centres in
* * *
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (
Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin
Flon): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of
Helen Pydee, Yvonne Wall, Pete Letkeman and others, requesting the Minister of
Labour (Mr. Praznik) hold public hearings on wide‑open Sunday shopping
throughout
Mr. Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the honourable
member (Mr. Dewar). It complies with the
privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the
petition read? [agreed]
Mr. Clerk (William
Remnant): The petition of undersigned citizens of the
WHEREAS the United Nations has declared
1993 the International Year of the World's Indigenous People with the theme
"Indigenous People: a new
partnership"; and
WHEREAS the provincial government has
totally discontinued funding to all friendship centres; and
WHEREAS the provincial government has
stated that these cuts mirror the federal cuts; and
WHEREAS the elimination of all funding to
friendship centres will result in the loss of many jobs as well as the services
and programs provided, such as:
assistance to the elderly, the homeless, youth programming, the socially
disadvantaged, families in crisis, education, recreation and cultural
programming, housing relocation, fine options, counselling, court assistance,
advocacy;
WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray
that the Legislative Assembly of
* (1335)
PRESENTING
REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES
Mr. Jack Reimer (Chairperson
of the Standing Committee on Economic Development): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the Second
Report of the Standing Committee on Economic Development.
Mr. Clerk (William
Remnant): Your Standing Committee on Economic
Development presents the following as its Second Report:
Your committee met on Thursday, March 18,
1993, at 8 p.m. in Room 255 of the
Mr. Dale Smeltz, Chairperson, Mr. Ray
West, President and CEO and Mr. Ken Robinson, Vice‑President, Finance,
provided such information as was requested with respect to the Annual Report
and business of A.E. McKenzie Co. Ltd.
Your committee has considered the Annual
Report of A.E. McKenzie Co. Ltd. for the year ended October 31, 1992, and has
adopted the same as presented.
Mr. Reimer: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the
honourable member for
Motion agreed to.
TABLING OF
REPORTS
Hon. Linda McIntosh
(Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs):
Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the report of The Trade Practices
Inquiry Act and, as well, to table the report of The Insurance Act.
INTRODUCTION
OF BILLS
Hon. James McCrae
(Minister of Justice and Attorney General):
If you are already past Introduction of Bills, could we have leave to
introduce a few bills?
Mr. Speaker: Is there leave to revert to Introduction of
Bills? [agreed]
Bill 19‑The
Court of Queen's Bench Amendment
and
Consequential Amendments Act
Hon. James McCrae
(Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I
thank my honourable colleagues.
I move, seconded by the honourable
Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), that Bill 19, The Court of Queen's Bench Amendment
and Consequential Amendments Act (Loi modifiant la Loi sur la Cour du Banc, de
la Reine et apportant des modifications correlatives a d'autres lois), be
introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.
Motion agreed to.
Bill 20‑The
Social Allowances Regulation Validation Act
Hon. James McCrae
(Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the
honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), that Bill 20, The Social
Allowances Regulation Validation Act (Loi validant un reglement d'application
de la Loi sur l'aide sociale), be introduced and that the same be now received
and read a first time.
Motion agreed to.
Bill 18‑The
Corporations Amendment Act
Hon. Linda McIntosh
(Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister
of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Stefanson), that Bill 18, The Corporations
Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur les corporations, be introduced and
that the same be now received and read a first time.
Motion agreed to.
ORAL
QUESTION PERIOD
Aboriginal
Friendship Centres
Funding
Reinstatement
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of
the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, today we heard comments from a
number of people, dealing with the Indian‑Metis friendship centres across
People spoke today about the fact that the
aboriginal population, in the last census, has doubled in the city of
People also spoke eloquently about the
fact that the government did not understand their own criteria. The government stated that they were going to
maintain support for organizations that were dealing with children and dealing
with elderly who are vulnerable, yet the friendship centres that are dealing
with children who may be dealing with the substance abuse challenge, or dealing
with people looking for jobs, or dealing with people looking for housing, or
dealing with elderly people dealing with health, that those people are being
dealt with on the front lines by the friendship centres.
In light of that information so eloquently
stated, Mr. Speaker, today by the people on the front lines, would the Premier
now agree to reinstate the funding for our friendship centres, keep the 33
people hired across
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. I note that we have an unusually large number
of visitors in the gallery here this afternoon.
I would like to remind all the visitors that you are not to participate
in any way, that even includes applauding.
I would expect that from all the members of this Chamber.
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Mr. Speaker, I accept the question of the
Leader of the Opposition, and I suggest to the Leader of the Opposition that we
are in unusually difficult times vis‑a‑vis the budget of the
In those difficult circumstances, we have
to make difficult choices, difficult choices that I might say are being shared
by all governments across the country. I
note, for instance, that in introducing reductions in health care, education
and social services in the
* (1340)
I could quote from other First Ministers
of Liberal persuasion, Mr. Speaker. The
fact of the matter is that faced with incomes that are not rising, every
government in
Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, I would note in the
Mr. Speaker, we had suggested last week
that there are some alternative places to find the money, the $7‑million tax
change that the government made that would have produced that revenue for
training in our society for corporations.
We had suggested last week the $15 million in the Vision Capital Fund
which the government has unfrozen for those kinds of grants. So there are some choices.
Mr. Speaker, I have a letter from the
Conference of Mennonites in
This letter went to the Premier, and it
further goes on to say: With the small
amount of dollars involved, I cannot see you cutting this program. It will not save you any money. These extra dollars are needed for social
assistance, health care, law enforcement, and a lot of pain and even bitterness
are generated in the process. At the end
of the process, you may be in fact spending more dollars and just shifting the
dollars from one place to the other.
Mr. Speaker, would the Premier not find it
in his ways to look at the long‑term economic benefits of Indian and
Metis friendship centres, the long‑term economic benefits of social
assistance training? Does it not make
sense to have people working with people to get people working again, to give
them jobs and give them opportunity, rather than having the short‑term
cuts which will create long‑term pain for many thousands of Manitobans?
Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, the sad reality is that the
member talks in conflict. The area that
he is talking about of training people so that they can be employed is exactly
the area that he is asking us to cut.
Those areas in which we allow firms to train people in lieu of having
payroll tax payments, last year trained 22,000 Manitobans, and he is saying,
cut out the training for 22,000 Manitobans.
That is the most shortsighted thing that any government could do, and I
just say that the Leader of the Opposition cannot understand what he is talking
about if he would say that we should cut out training grants for 22,000
Manitobans. That is wrong, wrong, wrong.
Mr. Speaker, 22,000 Manitobans were
trained under that program, and he is saying to cut that program out. I say that is misplaced priority to the
greatest degree. I say that you cannot
always be saying, well, cut out somewhere else.
Just last week the Leader of the
Opposition condemned us for cutting $10 million of highway construction. There is not an area in which we have reduced
that the Leader of the Opposition agrees.
Day after day, anything that is reduced, he says we should restore. How can there be any credibility, how can
there be any sense or fairness when all he wants to do is argue against every
reduction that is brought forward by this administration?
* (1345)
Mr. Speaker, I say to you that every other
government in this country has made difficult choices. Every other one has made choices that affect
health care, that affect family services, that affect education. New Democratic administrations, Mr. Romanow,
all of the others have made the difficult choices, because those are the areas
in which government spends its money, and we do not have enough money to spend
on all the things we would like to do.
Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, all we are suggesting to the
government is the training and orientation programs the corporations are
responsible for, they will pay for it, so that we can put the money into
people's training programs in the friendship centres, in the social allowance
programs, in the Anti‑Poverty Organization, and the people working with
aboriginal and grassroots people right across our province. That is what we are talking about.
Funding
Reinstatement
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of
the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, the government cut the
equivalent amount of money from the Anti‑Poverty Organization; some
$60,000 is exactly the same as the amount of money that they gave to Northern
Telecom, which laid off 45 people last month, in terms of a training
grant. The government has said it was
first of all an advocacy body. Then it
stated the services were provided elsewhere, but it relied on the statement
that these advocate bodies must be closed down.
Mr. Speaker, the government has not cut
the grant from the Consumers' Association.
The minister stated last week the reason they are not cutting the
Consumers' Association but cutting the Anti‑Poverty Organization‑‑this
is real work that I am talking about; I am talking about detailed work into
legislation. In fact they helped us
draft The Business Practices Act. Is
this not true, that the government is cutting back the groups that are working
in the grassroots area, like the Anti‑Poverty Organization? Will the government treat the Anti‑Poverty
Organization the same way it is treating other organizations, and will it
reinstate the money to the Anti‑Poverty Organization so it can speak out
for the most vulnerable people in our communities?
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Mr. Speaker, I repeat for the edification of
the Leader of the Opposition, these are not decisions that any government,
least of all our government, would like to make. We have, during the past five budgets, for
instance, increased our spending on Family Services by an average of 10 percent
annually, increased our expenditures on health care by more than 6 percent
annually, increased our expenditures in Education by 5.3 percent annually.
Mr. Speaker, we have done throughout the
past five budgets everything possible to preserve our spending on the social
safety net. We are at a stage where we
cannot continue to justify all of the things that we have done in the past,
because we simply do not have the money, and the alternative would be to drive
up the deficit or increase taxes. We
will not do that.
The Pas
Friendship Centre Role
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The
Pas): I would like to ask the First Minister a
question.
Last week the Premier erroneously stated
that friendship centres such as the one in The Pas did not provide services and
were only being cut by 10 percent when in actuality the cut to The Pas
Friendship Centre represented about 35 percent of its budget.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the First
Minister: Does he now realize that The
Pas Friendship Centre and other centres are not merely advocacy groups but in
fact provide a wide variety of vital human services?
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Mr. Speaker, we have said time and time again
that we are faced with circumstances that have not been faced by this province
ever in terms of the lack of growth in revenues, the clawback of equalization
payments from Ottawa and the necessity to try and preserve our health care, to
preserve our education, to preserve all of those things that people‑‑[interjection]
* (1350)
Mr. Speaker, the average of the provincial
funding as a percentage of the budgets of our Indian and Metis friendship
centres in
We recognize that everybody would like us
to keep all of the expenditures of government up. We cannot.
We have made difficult choices, and regrettably, those choices are the
ones that we have put forward in the budget.
We have said before we would like to follow the easy course; we could
follow the easy course that has been followed by previous governments and just
drive up the deficit‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order, please.
The Pas
Friendship Centre
Meeting
Request
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The
Pas): Mr. Speaker, there are 15 community
organizations in The Pas, including the town council, The Pas band, the local
RCMP, Swampy Cree MMF, the chamber of commerce, the hospital in KCC, which are
going to be attending an event on Wednesday called The Pas Friendship Centre
Day, which incidentally was declared by the town council and The Pas band.
I would like to ask the minister: Would he be interested in attending or
sending one of his cabinet colleagues to attend that event in The Pas on
Wednesday?
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer
(Minister of Family Services): The
Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) was right last Monday when he indicated
there were many difficult choices that have to be made in putting together a
budget. I also indicated last week the
tremendous increases in funding that this Department of Family Services has
received over the last five budgets.
Unfortunately, governments right across this land, whether they be
municipal governments, provincial governments or the national government, have
to make those difficult choices so that we can preserve the vital services‑‑
Point of
Order
Mr. Steve Ashton
(Opposition House Leader): On a point of order,
our rules are very clear. Government
does not have to answer questions, Mr. Speaker, but answers should be related
to the matter raised.
The member for The Pas just asked the
minister if he would attend in The Pas to maybe learn something about
friendship centres. We would appreciate
an answer from that minister.
Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised, I would like to
remind the honourable minister to deal with the matter raised, and it should
not provoke debate.
* * *
Mr. Gilleshammer: Mr. Speaker, I think that in discussion last
week, in answer to questions, we indicated that these difficult decisions were
being made right across the country.
I will examine my schedule and see if I am
available to do that.
Mr. Lathlin: I will even give him a ride to The Pas, Mr.
Speaker.
The Pas
Friendship Centre
Funding
Review
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The
Pas): My question is again directed to the First
Minister.
Given that the decision to cut funding to
friendship centres was made without an in‑depth review of the effects
that that cut would have on the friendship centres, will the Premier now review
the decision to cut funding to friendship centres?
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Mr. Speaker, I have said before that these
are difficult choices that are being made by governments right across the
country. In response to a similar criticism,
Premier Romanow said just a short while ago, and I quote: If anybody thinks you lie awake at night
thinking of ways to hurt people, say in the budget, forget it. I lost a Minister of Finance who was lying
awake at night trying to figure out ways not to hurt people.
The fact of the matter is, these decisions
are not taken lightly. We do everything
we can to try and preserve services to people, and we simply do not have enough
money to do everything we would like to do.
* (1355)
Government
Grants
Public
Service Definition
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs
(Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr.
Speaker, today we have heard the Premier say, these are difficult times; he has
to make difficult choices; no decisions are taken lightly. So I would like the Premier to provide the
House today with an explanation.
On the one hand, his ministers have chosen
to cut Indian and Metis friendship centres, the Manitoba Anti‑Poverty
Association and the child care association.
On the other hand, they have said that the Consumers' Association of
Canada provides, quote, an invaluable public service.
Can he give us a definition of what
"invaluable public service" is?
Hon. Linda McIntosh
(Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs):
Mr. Speaker, I do not know if members opposite realize that some of the
comments they are making, perhaps not by intent, are maligning hundreds of
volunteers who give freely of their time, with no recompense, to provide
product information, for one example.
This work that they do in countless ways helps, and I quote, lower
income people who are vulnerable, voiceless and powerless.
If the member for
They have done a number of things in terms
of bringing down legislation and bringing down information for those consumers
who are powerless if not protected, as the member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway)
constantly tells me, that we need to do more to protect the consumer.
They are a valuable counterpoint, in fact
the only counterpoint, between the interests of big business and big unions who
are concerned with big profits and big wages.
There is no one to work in an official way, except for this group, for
the protection of consumers, who include the poor and the vulnerable.
Mrs. Carstairs: Mr. Speaker, all of the words out of the
minister's mouth supporting volunteerism are equally applicable to all of the
agencies which this government has cut.
Aboriginal
Friendship Centres Role
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs
(Leader of the Second Opposition): I ask the
Premier for a definition of "invaluable service." Can the Premier tell us if he does not
believe that the service that is provided to the people who seek service at the
Indian and Metis friendship centres throughout this province, that they do not
consider that work invaluable?
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Mr. Speaker, as I indicated before, there are
a number of aspects to it; firstly is that the friendship centres get the
majority of their funding from other sources.
They do provide very much benefit to people. On the other hand, they also have other
sources of revenue. So we have said, we
have to look at all of these things with a view to the fact that we do not have
enough money to do all of the things that we would like to do. In making those difficult choices, some of
these things are matters that we, in lieu of raising taxes further, just simply
cannot go any further in doing all of the things that people would like us to
do.
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs
(Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr.
Speaker, maybe the Premier's logic would bear some telling factor if in fact
MAP0, the Manitoba Anti‑Poverty Organization, did not get two‑thirds
of its funding from this government, funding which it will now not get.
Can the minister explain to this House why
the work that is done in advocating on behalf of the poorest of the poor is any
less valuable than the work of the Consumers' Association?
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer
(Minister of Family Services): Mr.
Speaker, one of the criteria that we used within our department was to look and
see what other advocacy groups are also providing the same service.
In terms of MAPO, the social allowance
coalition of
The WORD group have brought forward their
concerns to the ministry, and we have made changes based on some of the
information that they bring forward.
We have to, in these very difficult times,
in the 90s, be able to fund those who provide direct service that we want to
maintain, whether it be in health, education or family services.
* (1400)
Aboriginal
Friendship Centres
Funding
Reinstatement
Mr. George Hickes (Point
Douglas): Mr. Speaker, since the Premier (Mr. Filmon)
and his caucus continue to claim wrongly that the friendship centres are an
advocacy group, maybe they are not aware that friendship centres provide
services for reconciliation, restitution, suicide prevention, crisis
counselling, working with the children, working with the elderly.
Also, I wonder, of the $7 million that was
spent by Workforce 2000, how many aboriginal people were trained with those
dollars? Because the Premier says that
aboriginal issues, aboriginal concerns are very important to us, I ask the
Premier, will he now review the funding to friendship centres in
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey
(Minister of Education and Training): The
funds allotted through Workforce 2000, through which business, industry and
labour do make application for, also must meet a certain criterion for as well,
I would remind the member, is also a cost‑shared training program. As I said the last time we spoke about this,
Mr. Speaker, governments across
Mr. Hickes: Mr. Speaker, as usual, we never got an
answer.
Aboriginal
Friendship Centres
Meeting
Request
Mr. George Hickes (Point
Douglas): I would like to ask the Premier‑‑it
is so obvious, to us people who have been in friendship centres, the important
services that they do provide. It is obvious that the Premier has not met and
stepped foot into those friendship centres to look at the programs and support
services they provide, not only to aboriginal people. I was informed this morning, and from living
in Thompson, I know, that the friendship centre in Thompson gives services to
at least 50 percent of nonaboriginal people.
It is not‑‑
Mr. Speaker: Order, please.
Question, please.
Mr. Hickes: Will the Premier agree today to meet with the
friendship staff to look at trying to help them to get some funding to continue
this valuable service to all Manitobans, not only aboriginal people?
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Mr. Speaker, the member is wrong in his
preamble. I have visited friendship
centres throughout the province in the past.
Dauphin
Friendship Centre
Funding
Elimination Justification
Mr. John Plohman
(Dauphin): Mr. Speaker, what we are talking about and
what the issue is here today is one of wrong decisions and wrong choices by
this government. They talk about
choices. This is a wrong choice.
Now the Minister of Finance‑‑and
we cannot let him off the hook; he has played a small role in this. The Minister of Finance, on March 15, put out
a news release saying that priority will be given to organizations providing
key human services. He mentions the
frail, elderly and child protection, and then he proceeds to slice the heart out
of the Dauphin Friendship Centre, which provides services to youth,
counselling, meals, the frail, elderly, those suffering from elderly abuse, Mr.
Speaker, and many other essential services to disadvantaged people in society,
in the communities in the
How can this Minister of Finance justify
taking a position, when he on the one hand talks about these key human
services, to cut $101,000 out of the Dauphin Friendship Centre, which
represents 73 percent of their programming budget?
Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister
of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I am not asking to be left off
the hook, to use the member's words. When I made that announcement, I indicated
fully and clearly that given the state of the finances of the
Mr. Plohman: Certainly, Mr. Speaker, the most vulnerable
in society will feel comforted by those words.
Human
Resources
Mr. John Plohman
(Dauphin): Can the Minister of Education (Mrs. Vodrey)
justify the closing of the Parkland Human Resources Opportunity Centre, which
she has just now become responsible for, has closed it down, with 10 employees
being thrown out of work, the Parkland Human Resources Opportunity Centre which
provides key human services, to use the Minister of Finance's (Mr. Manness)
words, acting on referrals from probationary services, for single parent job
access and other agencies which refer people who are attempting to break the
cycle of poverty, crime, substance abuse, hopelessness and despair? How can this minister justify the cutting of
that essential service in the
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer
(Minister of Family Services): Mr.
Speaker, as the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) has just indicated, there are
many very difficult decisions that cross all departments of government. I challenge the Leader of the New Democratic
Party (Mr. Doer) to indicate areas within Family Services where they would make
some recommendations for savings. This department has seen a constant increase
in spending every year. In order to preserve
many of the vital services that we want in Health, in Education and Family
Services, we have to make some downsizing in other areas of these departments.
Mr. Plohman: Mr. Speaker, I want the minister to justify
the cutting of this essential service. Stand up and justify it.
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member has put his question.
Mr. Gilleshammer: Mr. Speaker, one of the challenges that
governments across this country are facing is to rationalize the training
programs that we offer to Canadians, and
Government
Grants Fairness
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs
(Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr.
Speaker, the Finance minister talks about fairness and that everybody is going
to share the burden.
Can the Minister of Finance explain to
this House today why some grants were eliminated‑‑not cut‑‑but
absolutely and totally eliminated? Where
is the fairness in immolation?
Hon. Clayton Manness
(Minister of Finance): I do not know the
term that the member uses, Mr. Speaker, but let me say that the answer provided
by the First Minister (Mr. Filmon) and indeed the Minister of Family Services
(Mr. Gilleshammer) still holds.
Again, Mr. Speaker, today the
I also say to the Leader of the Second
Opposition (Mrs. Carstairs), I say to her very clearly and concisely and in the
general thrust behind the decisions, that those agencies where the grants were
going to advocacy, Mr. Speaker, we sensed that during these very, very
difficult times that that money for a period of time, maybe a year, maybe two
years, could be held back. That was the
basis of the decision.
Mrs. Carstairs: Mr. Speaker, that does not make any sense.
Consumers'
Association of
Funding
Justification
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs
(Leader of the Second Opposition): Let me
tell you that the mandate of the Consumers' Association is that it is an
advocacy group, that it is a lobby group, the very definition that this
government has used for the elimination of cuts to organizations like the
Manitoba Anti‑Poverty Organization.
Now either they have that definition or they do not.
Why does that definition apply to some but
does not apply to others?
Hon. Clayton Manness
(Minister of Finance): Well, Mr. Speaker, we
try and bring the best judgment possible forward. Now the members today have taken issue with
the grant that we provided the Consumers' Association of Canada. I would say, when we made the decisions at
Treasury Board with respect to providing that level of grant, we did so on the
basis that the knowledge had come to us that that organization is doing an
awful lot of research work in support of legislation that ultimately is going
to be for the well‑being of consumers in the country.
Now, Mr. Speaker, if we did not provide
that, then obviously we would have to hire the resources in government to do
that same type of research for the development.
That was the reason in that case why the grant for the Consumers' Association
was maintained at last year's level. So
we try and bring forward the best criteria possible to, first of all, set into
place a decision‑making process, and after that, we take all the
information and ultimately we make our decision.
* (1410)
Government
Grants Fairness
Mrs. Sharon Carstairs
(Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr.
Speaker, can the minister tell this House today why the decision was made to
cut entirely the grants to some organizations that provide advocacy work and
the maintenance of others that provide the same advocacy work? Why was the decision not made, in fiscal
responsibility, to cut everyone, as the letter they sent out in November from
the Family Services ministry would lead people to believe, that everybody was
going to take a cut?
Why was it decided that in some cases it
would be eliminated altogether?
Hon. Clayton Manness
(Minister of Finance): Firstly, let me
correct the record, Mr. Speaker. The
Consumers' Association is not a straight advocacy group. More importantly, the depth of our financial
difficulties today would not allow us to make a decision based on everybody
sharing at a 2 percent or 4 percent level.
We have practised that, more or less, over
the course of the last four or five budgets, but just as other provinces in
this country, particularly those that have brought down budgets to this point
in time,
Mr. Speaker, I say to the member, if she
would just wait until the full Estimates package is tabled, she will see that
we have had to make difficult decisions, not on blending or diluting across‑the‑board
cuts of 2 or 4 percent, that indeed, in some cases, after program evaluations,
we have taken out entire programs. That
is happening across the breadth of the land.
Aboriginal
Friendship Centres
Funding
Reinstatement
Mr. Steve Ashton
(Thompson): Mr.Speaker, it is unfortunate that earlier
the Premier (Mr. Filmon) did not have the time to go and speak to people on the
front steps of this Legislature and has yet to agree to meet with friendship
centre representatives.
I would like to ask if the Pages can
deliver from northern Manitoba, petitions with several thousand names from
communities such as Thompson, Garden Hill, Gillam, Split Lake, Cross Lake, Lac
Brochet, York Landing, Ilford, South Indian Lake, Pikwitonei, Wabowden, Norway
House, Lynn Lake, The Pas, Nelson House, Chemawawin, Gods Lake, Gods River,
Leaf Rapids, Thicket Portage, Oxford House, Pukatawagan, Moose Lake, Churchill,
St. Theresa Point, Shamattawa and Shoal River.
I would like to ask just one question, Mr.
Speaker, of the Premier: Will the
Premier just take the time to look up in the gallery, look in the faces of the
people‑‑since he would not take time earlier today to do that‑‑he
is cutting, the people he is laying off, the boards that have worked hours and
hours to provide the needed services offered by the friendship centres?
Will he have a heart, look in their faces
and reverse the cuts to the friendship centres in
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Mr. Speaker, our government has said that we
do not relish having to make difficult choices, and only when you are in
opposition can you have the irresponsibility to say to people, we would give
you all the money you want. Only then,
when you do not have to raise taxes because you do not have to do anything, can
you say that.
His colleague Premiers, the New Democrats
such as Roy Romanow, are reducing expenditures on health care by four percent,
on universities, on all of these areas, because they have the responsibility to
face the people.
Mr. Speaker, we are not going to be in a
position of mortgaging away the futures of the children of
Mr. Speaker, these are difficult
choices. We have done what we have to do
in order to preserve our health care, our social services, our education for
the children.
Aboriginal
Friendship Centres
Funding
Reinstatement
Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin
Flon): Mr. Speaker, the Premier and then the Finance
minister talked about the difficult decisions that they are facing. The decisions they are facing have been more
difficult because of five years of economic failure on the part of this
government‑‑five years of putting people out of work, five years of
cutting services.
Mr. Speaker, my question to the First
Minister is: Will he now acknowledge
that the friendship centres in Flin Flon,
Mr. Speaker: Order, please.
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Mr. Speaker, when the member for Flin Flon
took office in the government of Howard Pawley, the annual interest costs in
If we had that $350 million per year, we
would not have to make any cuts. Thanks
to their spending, they have put the government of
Health
Sciences Centre
Emergency
Ward Closure
Mr. Dave Chomiak
(Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister
of Health.
Mr. Speaker, this Sunday, March 21, the
emergency ward at Health Sciences Centre was forced to shut down due to lack of
beds available. Is the minister aware of
this? Is he aware that the ward may be
forced to close again today? Will he now
admit that it is due to his bed closures with no resources in place in the
community?
Hon. Donald Orchard
(Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, my honourable friend's connection
of events is inappropriate. From time to
time, across the whole system, from Concordia and other hospitals, occasionally
they are overloaded with emergency cases.
To make the connections my honourable friend makes would be an
inappropriate analysis and conclusion.
Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, the Health Sciences Centre
emergency ward has closed three times since the minister announced his bed
closures.
Will the minister now undertake to do what
the member for St. Johns (Ms. Wasylycia‑Leis) called for, what the task
force called for, what his own action plan called for, and that is to put in
place resources in the community so that these kinds of measures do not have to
take place in the future?
Mr.
Orchard: Mr. Speaker, surely my
honourable friend is not suggesting that emergency wards, which presumably deal
with patients who need admission to hospital, can be dealt simply with
community‑based services. I would
suggest that is an inappropriate health policy analysis that my honourable
friend has made.
Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.