LEGISLATIVE
ASSEMBLY OF
Wednesday,
April 21, 1993
The House met at 1:30
p.m.
Mr. Clerk (William
Remnant): It is my duty to inform the House of the
unavoidable absence of Mr. Speaker and to request the Deputy Speaker to take the
Chair in accordance with the statutes.
(Mrs. Louise Dacquay, Deputy Speaker, in
the Chair)
PRAYERS
ROUTINE
PROCEEDINGS
PRESENTING
PETITIONS
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (
Mr. Doug Martindale
(Burrows): Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to present the
petition of RoseMarie Hamilton, Fred Hoffman, Rose Pitzl and others requesting
the Family Services minister (Mr. Gilleshammer) consider restoring funding for
the friendship centres in
Mr. George Hickes (Point
Douglas): Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to present the
petition of Ruby Miness, Brad McGillivray, Andrew Bik and others requesting the
Family Services minister (Mr. Gilleshammer) consider restoring funding for the
friendship centres in
Mr. Conrad Santos
(Broadway): Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to present the
petition of Murray William Blacksmith, David Blacksmith, Betty Mousseau and
others requesting the Family Services minister (Mr. Gilleshammer) consider
restoring funding for the friendship centres in
TABLING OF
REPORTS
Hon. James Downey
(Minister of Energy and Mines): Madam
Deputy Speaker, I would like to table for members' information the booklet,
Energy in
Hon. James McCrae
(Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Deputy Speaker, I am tabling today
the Twentieth Annual Report of Legal Aid
INTRODUCTION
OF BILLS
Bill 26‑The
Expropriation Amendment Act
Hon. James McCrae
(Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Deputy Speaker, I move, seconded by
the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), that Bill 26, The
Expropriation Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur l'expropriation, be
introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.
Motion agreed to.
* (1335)
Introduction
of Guests
Madam Deputy Speaker: I would like to draw to the attention of all
members of the House that we have with us this afternoon in the public gallery
from
Also this afternoon, we have with us 17
students from the English program at
On behalf of all honourable members, I
welcome you this afternoon.
ORAL
QUESTION PERIOD
Carter
Report
Government
Position
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of
the Opposition): Madam Deputy Speaker, my question is to the
First Minister, the Premier, the Chair of our Economic Development Committee
and Minister responsible for Federal/Provincial Relations. The Carter recommendations on barley are
running into tremendous opposition from a number of farm groups across western
I would like to ask the Premier (Mr.
Filmon), in light of the fact that
Hon. Glen Findlay
(Minister of Agriculture): Madam Deputy
Speaker, I would like to tell the member opposite the position we have taken is
the same today as it was the last number of days. We are concerned that we
maximize our penetration of the North American market, that we maximize the
income at the farm gate for producers.
The report does cast some very significant statements, conclusions that
the farmers are losing 17 percent of the value at the farm gate and not
penetrating the market to the extent possible.
As I said yesterday, we will be finding out the degree to which these
statements are true; we want to verify them and ask for all the information to
be gathered from the industry, and those letters are in the process of being
put together.
I look forward to the comments from
everybody in the industry. The member
should also know that the Wheat Board does export around the world and only 10
percent of their exports are currently to the
Mr. Doer: Madam Deputy Speaker, we will await the
recommendations from the
Carter
Report
Plebiscite
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of
the Opposition): Madam Deputy Speaker, the federal minister
responsible, in questions in the House of Commons yesterday, has said
absolutely no to a plebiscite for producers in western
He has said that he is going to use the
same old Mulroney tactics of having closed‑door consultations and meetings
and making a decision in the secrecy of the cabinet room.
The Premier in his Speech from the Throne
in 1990 said Canadians are tired of the back‑room elite ways, the old
ways.
I would ask the Premier today: Will he recommend to the federal minister
that he change his position and agree to a plebiscite so farmers can have a
vote on this very, very important issue facing producers in western
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Madam Deputy Speaker, the process that is
being followed is one of consultation that allows people to have their views
heard on this issue. That is why 14
different groups have already commented on it.
That is why the study has been put out publicly for consultation, for
confirmation or argument over the facts and the figures that are in there. That is why there is an intent on the part of
the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Findlay) to meet with all the different
relevant organizations in
That is certainly not a closed‑door
process. That is a very open and
extensive consultative process and we believe that it is appropriate under
circumstances like this.
* (1340)
Mr. Doer: Madam Deputy Speaker, the Premier should know
that every one of those groups that is being consulted by the federal minister
now wants and is calling for a plebiscite to determine the final decision on
this issue.
Many of the organizations, the Pools in
western
Impact on
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of
the Opposition): A final question to the Premier: The Port of Churchill has been impacted by
the shipment of barley through its port.
In fact, in 1988‑89 some 89 percent of the shipments through the
My question to the Premier is: What is the impact of this report and the
recommendations to go to a continental market? What is the impact on the
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Madam Deputy Speaker, I should remind the
member opposite that last year it was wheat that was shipped through the
In fact, I might say that the evidence is
that the Wheat Board was one of the biggest stumbling blocks to greater
utilization of the
Health
Care System Reform
Reporting
Process
Mr. Dave Chomiak
(Kildonan): Madam Deputy Speaker, despite what the
government states, there is considerable confusion, uncertainty and fear in
this province concerning the minister and the government's health care plans.
Will the minister today provide a
commitment to this House and to the people of
Hon. Donald Orchard
(Minister of Health): Madam Deputy Speaker, I will even go one
better. As we make decisions and accept
the advice of professional groups, advisory committees and other individuals
who are participating very actively in the changes that the health care system
is undergoing in the province of
Madam Deputy Speaker, I will make that
commitment to continue that process as decisions are made to explain what they
are. I would only ask my honourable
friend that when decisions are made by government, that he present the accurate
information that is given to the media and Manitobans instead of the penchant
maybe for less than accurate communication my honourable friend is engaged in.
Mr. Chomiak: Madam Deputy Speaker, the minister's concept
of public meetings is news conferences now.
Public
Hearings
Mr. Dave Chomiak
(Kildonan): My question to the minister: Will the minister undertake today, since it
appears that his $3.9‑million consultant will be laying off people on an ongoing
basis over the year as she works on her $3.9‑million contract, to make
sure those two institutions that are affected, namely the Health Sciences
Centre and St. Boniface, hold public meetings with the public, the patients and
employees prior to those changes taking place, so that the public has input
into the changes, not via press conference?
* (1345)
Hon. Donald Orchard
(Minister of Health): Madam Deputy Speaker, I think if my
honourable friend, and I may have to stand to correct myself, but I think if my
honourable friend would take the time to read the contract that was arrived at
between government and APM, my honourable friend‑‑and I might add,
that is the first time that a consulting contract with anybody has ever been
laid out at a press conference for everyone to see. But that was not the
circumstance I inherited of course when I found to my chagrin in 1988 that the
New Democrats hired American consultants to undertake health care
consulting. I mean, that does not matter
now.
Madam Deputy Speaker, my honourable friend
might find just such a process proposed as part of the process and agreement at
both hospitals.
Community-Based
Health Care Funding
Mr. Dave Chomiak
(Kildonan): Madam Deputy Speaker, my final supplementary
to the minister: Will the minister,
since he will not change the decision on user fees for colostomies and supplies
and he will not change the decision on the 74‑percent increase in nursing
home fees, at least commit today that any savings in the health care system
that are somehow realized by this process, will go into community‑ and
health‑care‑based facilities, something that has not been done to
this point in time?
Hon. Donald Orchard
(Minister of Health): Madam Deputy Speaker, that is entirely the
frustration that I have with my honourable friend in his presentation of
questions, because you might recall that my honourable friend posed similar
questions and when I answered those similar questions some two weeks ago, I
indicated exactly what my honourable friend wants, that the contributions on
the ostomy program in terms of the Home Care Program were not stripped away
from the Continuing Care Program, but were reinvested to provide exactly the
enhanced levels of community care that my honourable friend wants.
I indicated that to him two weeks
ago. My honourable friend is never
satisfied with an answer that happens to disagree with the propaganda he and
his party want to spread.
Mr. Reg Alcock
(Osborne): Madam Deputy Speaker, all jobs are important,
but particularly high‑quality, highly skilled, high value‑added
jobs are particularly important in a small economy like this, and in an
industry like aerospace.
I wonder if the Ministry of Industry and
Trade can tell us why the federal government is choosing to relocate the
Hon. Eric Stefanson
(Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Deputy Speaker, for a change I
agree with the preamble of the member in terms of the importance of the
aerospace sector to the economy of
In terms of the specific question asked today,
I will take that as notice and provide him with the further details.
Mr. Alcock: Madam Deputy Speaker, perhaps the Minister
for Transportation (Mr. Driedger) can tell us‑‑it is the school
that trains military pilots in the use of instruments while they are making
night landings. It employs about seven
highly trained professionals, as well as technicians and others. Now there has been an examination of the
decision by the military to move the school to
I would like to ask the Minister of
Transportation: Is he aware of this
decision?
* (1350)
Mr. Stefanson: I already indicated to the member for Osborne
in terms of taking that matter as notice and providing him further
details. I also confirmed the importance
of the aerospace sector, outlined for him some of the things we are doing, not
unlike the initiative of relocating the
Madam Deputy Speaker, it is an important
sector. We are doing very well in that
sector. We still have the third largest
aerospace community in all of
I have indicated I will take that question
as notice and get further particulars, Madam Deputy Speaker.
Mr. Alcock: Madam Deputy Speaker, this government
purports to be an activist interventionist government.
To the minister again: Is there no mechanism by which they are
informed of decisions of this magnitude by the federal government?
Mr. Stefanson: As a rule, Madam Deputy Speaker, the answer
would be yes. I have indicated, the
association that we are a part of which is the aerospace association of
Certainly, going over the past two and a
half years, the member for Osborne does not bring many surprises to the floor
of this House when it comes to economic initiatives, whether it is in aerospace
or any other sector. I have indicated to
him I will get further details. It is an
important sector. We are doing well in
that sector.
I referred to the EH101, and I certainly
hope the member for Osborne will support that initiative and take that message
to the leader of a party that he is considering running for in the next few
months, because that is another important initiative for the economy in
School
Dropout Rate
Ms. Jean Friesen
(Wolseley): Madam Deputy Speaker, one of the indicators
of a productive society is the number of young people who are able to complete
school.
I want to ask the Minister of
Education: What is the school dropout
rate in
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey
(Minister of Education and Training): Madam
Deputy Speaker, there have been a number of federal studies that the member may
be referring to, but the difficulty in the term "dropout" is that the
term is not well defined, because the issue of dropout does not allow for those
students who take a temporary leave of absence from school and then in fact
reintegrate or start again. It may be
for a semester period or it may be for a full school year. So perhaps she needs to clarify the question.
Ms. Friesen: Madam Deputy Speaker, I do not think the
question could be any simpler.
What is the school dropout rate in
Mrs. Vodrey: Those statistics are not well defined or
consistently defined, and the important feature is that we know how many
students who in fact do leave school are able to be successfully reintegrated
into school, and if they leave school in
Ms. Friesen: Madam Deputy Speaker, there are Statistics
Canada‑‑
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. Question.
Ms. Friesen: Will the minister tell the House what the
dropout rate is that her department is working with in
Mrs. Vodrey: As I said, yes, there are dropout rate
statistics by Statistics
Consequently, during the Estimates process
I will be happy to talk about the new tracking system that we will be
integrating in this province.
Corrections
System
Community
Release Program
Mr. Paul Edwards (St.
James): Madam Deputy Speaker, my question is for the
Minister of Justice.
We have been advised this morning by staff
at Headingley Jail that the government is intending‑‑and they have
been advised by their supervisors‑‑to implement a plan whereby no
person sentenced to a sentence of less than six months would be incarcerated,
but rather would be dealt with through the Community Release Centre, which
would mean that a person sentenced to a sentence of less than six months would
not spend a day in jail.
Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, can the
minister tell members if in fact the government is intending to implement this
plan and if so, when?
Hon. James McCrae
(Minister of Justice and Attorney General):
In response, Madam Deputy Speaker, to the need for inmates in our jails to
do something useful with the time that they have to spend while they are
serving a sentence, we think it is appropriate that they be put to work, and
through community release programs we can put inmates to work doing useful
things in the community and maybe in that way helping to repay their debt to
society.
* (1355)
Mr. Edwards: The first and foremost responsibility of this
minister in the law enforcement system is protection of the public. Rehabilitation is very important but protection
of the public is first.
My question for the minister: How can he guarantee the protection of the
public when these individuals convicted of very serious offences, impaired
driving, for instance, sexual assault, domestic assault‑‑how can he
ensure the safety of the victims when these people, albeit maybe working, but
are in the community?
Mr. McCrae: As we develop any plan for dealing with
people incarcerated in
Corrections, on the other hand‑‑the
philosophy of Corrections is to try to ensure that these people are not going
to be recidivists, people who go out and commit crimes again. Anybody who is going to be part of a program
of community release is going to be very carefully screened and assessed so
that the public's protection is assured.
That is paramount in our thinking.
Mr. Edwards: Let me get this straight with the
minister. Is he intending to put into
place an arbitrary system whereby someone with less than six months, regardless
of screening or what the offence may have been‑‑is that his
intention, that he is going to set a cap at six months, and everyone who falls
under it, regardless of the offence, is going to be allowed to go through the
CRC, the Community Release Centre, and if so, how is he going to protect
victims and get them to come forward and testify against these people if those
people will be back in the community the next day?
Mr. McCrae: I have already said, Madam Deputy Speaker,
that the paramount concern of this minister and this department in the area of
Corrections is protection of the public.
The honourable member often gets certain bits of information, usually
somewhat incorrect to begin with, and by the time they end up in this Chamber,
they are far from correct.
So we have to be careful with this
honourable member because for five years, he has been consistently bringing
incorrect information to this House.
Point of
Order
Mr. Edwards: Madam Deputy Speaker, I received information
and I brought it to the minister, and I am asking him whether or not‑‑
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for St. James does not
have a point of order. It is a dispute
over the facts.
Farmers–Alfalfa
Producers
Government
Support
Mr. John Plohman
(Dauphin): This government's policies in rural economic
development have been demonstrated to be a failure, and they were again
yesterday by my colleague with the loss of 25 jobs in a woodworking plant in
In light of the minister's promise of last
week that he would follow up on this issue this afternoon‑‑I quote
from Hansard‑‑will he indicate to the Legislature today precisely
what mechanism he has put in place to ensure a timely response which is about
one week now, because he has failed to act quickly earlier when he was asked
about this? What mechanism he has put in
place to ensure‑‑
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please.
Hon. Eric Stefanson
(Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Contact was made last week; officials
from my department met on Monday of this week.
We were up in Dauphin meeting with the company and I expect to get a
full briefing later this afternoon.
Mr. Plohman: Madam Deputy Speaker, in light of the fact
that the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Findlay) said this is a top priority, and
the need is for bridge financing immediately to operate this year, I want to
ask the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism what mechanism he is putting in
place to ensure immediate response with regard to the short‑term needs,
not the long term, which was what the meeting was about, but right now for
operation this year.
Mr. Stefanson: I am not so sure that you can separate those
two issues, because in the final analysis, we want all
This harkens back to the kind of
philosophy that we have seen from this member when he was a part of a
government‑‑short‑term, make‑work jobs, instead of
creating an environment and a climate that creates long‑term, stable jobs
so that Manitobans have a job today and five years from now and ten years from
now, unlike the kinds of jobs created when he was in cabinet.
* (1400)
Mr. Plohman: That is a disgusting slur on farmers of
alfalfa products.
I want to ask this minister a
question. In light of the fact they have
been operating for over 20 years and are not a fly‑by‑night
operation, what action is this minister going to take right now to ensure that
they stay in operation now, this year, so they will not lose all of the markets
they have built up over these years.
Mr. Stefanson:There was certainly no
disgusting slur on the farmers or agriculture here in
I have indicated, in terms of the priority
that we are talking about, we are talking about long‑term jobs, long‑term
solutions. That is how we deal with any
economic situation in terms of the viability of entities and companies in this
province. I indicated I will get a full
briefing this afternoon and we will be dealing with that issue.
Fisheries
Act
Amendments
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The
Pas): Madam Deputy Speaker, my questions are
directed to the Minister of Natural Resources.
Last week, the minister expressed in the
House a regret about the lack of support that he was getting for trying to keep
support for fishermen in northern
Hon. Harry Enns
(Minister of Natural Resources): Madam
Deputy Speaker, I have had a considerable amount of discussion with
representatives of the fisheries industry.
Different senior officials of the department have had public meetings
with various commercial fishing groups along the lakes, particularly on our major
fisheries on
Northern
Freight Assistance Program
Government
Commitment
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The
Pas): Madam Deputy Speaker, since prices for virtually
every kind of commercial fish have dropped this year and at the same time the
cost of fishing has gone up so dramatically, what efforts has this minister
made to restore the funding for the freight subsidy program so that some of our
fishermen in the North can afford to keep operating this year?
Hon. Harry Enns
(Minister of Natural Resources): Madam
Deputy Speaker, the honourable member is aware that $250,000 of taxpayers'
money that is provided to offset the freight costs is virtually exclusively
assigned to the northern fisheries.
If any of the commercial fishermen in the
province have a complaint and they are voicing them to me, it is those in the
southern fisheries, namely again in the
The whitefish industry is not in good
shape, not in good health, and they have lost most of the freight assistance
that the province provides. We did that
on the rationale that it would be fairer to provide the more distant, the
northern fisheries who have the bigger freight bill to pay. They are the recipients of virtually all of
the $250,000 of assistance that is ongoing and has been ongoing, despite the
hard budgetary times that we all face.
Fishing
Industry
Government
Support
Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The
Pas): Madam Deputy Speaker, my final question is to
the same minister.
I would like to ask the minister if he
will commit himself and this government to getting the same support for
fishermen in this province, particularly in northern
Hon. Harry Enns
(Minister of Natural Resources): The
honourable member raises an interesting point.
It is a matter that I have raised directly with the federal minister,
the honourable minister of federal Fisheries Mr. Crosbie, at the time that a
very significant and substantial support program was announced by the federal
government. I believe it was some $500
million for the serious difficulties that the eastern offshore fisheries, principally
in the Newfoundland‑Nova Scotia area, find themselves in. I, at that time, approached the federal
minister directly that some relatively modest proportion of that applied to our
own inland fisheries here would go a long way in helping out some of the
difficulties that I acknowledge our fishermen have.
I will, Madam Deputy Speaker, continue to
try to convince anybody and everybody who is prepared to listen that our
fisheries are in some difficulty, particularly our whitefish industry and the northern
fisheries have a problem getting their product onto market. We keep hoping that there are brighter days
in the future. I have discussed some of
the options with the representatives of the Freshwater Fish Marketing
Corporation, but I will continue working in that direction.
Workers
Compensation Board
Jean
Rochon Case
Mr. Daryl Reid
(Transcona): Madam Deputy Speaker, Mr. Jean Rochon, a
gentleman in his mid‑fifties, sustained a workplace back injury in 1985
which left him permanently disabled. He
now uses canes and a walker and is currently receiving Canada Pension Plan
disability benefits. In September of
1992, the WCB threatened Mr. Rochon with termination of his WCB benefits if he
did not seek work.
My question is for the Minister responsible
for the Workers Compensation Board: Why
has the WCB videotaped, pushed and threatened this individual to return to the
workforce when his personal doctor indicates that he has a total permanent
disability?
Hon. Darren Praznik
(Minister responsible for and charged with the administration of The Workers
Compensation Act): Madam Deputy Speaker, I would say to the
member for Transcona, I would invite him to take up this particular
individual's case with the chair of the board.
There are three labour appointments to the board. There is an appeal process on a variety of
decisions. As I have said in this House
before, we have a Workers Compensation Board with a nine‑member board
with three labour appointments who are very, very capable people, who set the
policies, who are responsible for the administration of the board.
I would suggest that he raise it with
those board members, including Mr. Bruno Zimmer who is a member of that board
appointed by labour, who are responsible for these kinds of issues. That is the process as opposed to raising
this matter directly in the House. I
would suggest he use that format.
Mr. Reid: Madam Deputy Speaker, the reason I raise this
is that the minister is the last person left in the chain of command here to
which I can raise these concerns, because others in WCB have ignored that.
[interjection] He just does not want to take the responsibility on it.
My question, Madam Deputy Speaker, is for
the same minister. Can the minister explain why the Workers Compensation Board
is now forcing this injured person to attend psychiatric evaluation and
counselling by the WCB staff, or the people they appoint, without the presence
of the individual's spouse, whom they refuse to allow into the room, and is now
forcing the individual to attend a
* (1410)
Mr. Praznik: Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to point out to
the member for Transcona that many of the issues he has raised here on the
floor of the House, including the use‑‑I am not sure, but I believe‑‑of
the Sister Kenny pain clinic which is a well‑respected pain clinic, he
may oppose it because it happens to be south of the 49th parallel, but it is a
valid clinic. All of these issues are
administrative matters.
I have had occasion to sit down with
members of the board of directors, including Margaret Day, who is a member of
the
So I would suggest that, since he belongs
to a party that claims to have an affiliation with labour, he raise some of
these matters with those members of the board of directors. I am prepared to follow up with some
questions to the board, but I would indicate that it is a joint board including
labour representatives who develop those policies that he today is coming here
and questioning.
Environmental
Concerns
Contaminated
Soil
Hon. Glen Cummings
(Minister of Environment): Madam Deputy
Speaker, yesterday I was asked a question for which I did not have the answer
regarding soil contamination, how many of the property owners are paying and
how much.
Eighty percent of the cost is paid up‑front,
and the balance of 20 percent is collectable and is collected. The site at Elmwood Motors is within
guidelines. Hespeler Auto has been
issued an order and is in the process of clean up. Petro‑Canada is treating soil onsite by
vapour extraction.
I also take great pride in the fact that
on environmental matters we are always forthright with the information, Madam Deputy
Speaker.
There was a question from the member for
Radisson (Ms. Cerilli) about whether or not the department had made available
information. I want to put on the record
that on December 16 the Department of Environment's Freedom of Information officer
phoned the member for Transcona (Mr. Reid) to indicate that the files he had
requested were available. The return
message was left, but the member for Transcona did not return the second
message that went to him. The files are
still available if he wants to come and get them.
Deputy
Ministers
Salary
Increases
Mr. Steve Ashton
(Thompson): Madam Deputy Speaker, Manitobans are
increasingly questioning the "fairness"‑‑and I put that
in quotation marks‑‑of the Conservative government. No group of Manitobans is questioning the
fairness of this government's actions more than the many civil servants who
have had their wages frozen, are having now the involuntary days off, which is
effectively a wage cut.
Yesterday, questions were raised even to
the Minister of Family Services (Mr. Gilleshammer) asking, in terms of salaries
in terms of deputy ministers within departments of government. At that time,
the minister said that deputy ministers were being increased at the rate of the
MGEU contract. Well, Public Accounts
indicates that deputy ministers have in fact, while civil servants have been
cut, been getting significant increases, and in the minister's department an
increase of 14.9 percent over the last two years.
I have a very simple question. Is it fair to expect 100,000 civil servants
to take pay cuts and pay freezes and at the same time to have increases to
senior staff of in excess of double digit figures? Is that fairness, Madam Deputy Speaker?
Hon. Clayton Manness
(Minister of Finance): Madam Deputy Speaker,
I do not know to what document the member is referring. Certainly, the Public
Accounts for year‑end '93 are not even yet brought together.
If the member is trying to introduce into
debate, by way of question, Madam Deputy Speaker, '91‑92 year‑end
records, I say to him, that has nothing to do with Bill 22, which, by the way,
I will be introducing for second reading once we move into Orders of the
Day. The member cannot stand here and
try and compare those two sources of information because they come from two
different periods of time.
Mr. Ashton: Madam Deputy Speaker, perhaps the Minister of
Finance should check the figures between 1990 and 1992 where civil servants had
a pay freeze and a 3 percent increase and now a 3.8 percent‑‑
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please.
Mr. Ashton: Madam Deputy Speaker, I will ask the Minister
of Finance, how does he justify deputy ministers getting increases, in this
particular case of 14.9 percent, at the same time when civil servants were being
cut?
Mr. Manness: Madam Deputy Speaker, I do not know what the
member is trying to indicate. He is
trying to indicate that there has been some increase within the higher senior
levels of government, where have been significant reclassifications throughout
the whole civil service.
I dare say, if the member wants to pick
and choose specific indications he can go about doing that all day, but he is
not going to be able to contribute to the debate. He is not going to be able to suggest how it
is that we have been able to freeze the taxes in this province for six
years. He is not going to be able to
point out how it was we brought probably the fairest budget down in all of
Deputy
Ministers
Salary
Increases
Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson):
My final question to the Minister of Finance is: Will he not recognize the inherent unfairness
of treating employees who make $20,000 a year one way, cutting them back, and
having senior civil servants getting increases?
Will he now at least be consistent and not
have this unfair system that we are seeing with senior civil servants getting
double digit increases over a two‑year period?
Hon.
Darren Praznik (Minister of Labour):
Madam Deputy Speaker, just to add to the answer to this question, the
member for Thompson very conveniently in his question forgets to mention a
thing called reclassifications which happen from time to time. He may laugh,
but there were over 500 members of the civil service, of the MGEU, who had
reclassifications.
If he is proposing that should not happen
I am sure the MGEU would take a very different position from him. As well, there is one‑third of the
public service which has merit increases that still apply which the member also
tends to forget and leave out of this debate.
So I think what he is doing, quite frankly, is comparing apples to
oranges. He is not making a fair
comparison at all.
If there was one deputy minister‑‑and
we do not even know if his facts are accurate‑‑had that increase,
it could have been a reclassification.
But there were at least 500 members of the MGEU who had positions
reclassified who could have had even larger increases than that.
Now, if he is proposing that not happen,
that not be a tool available, then I would suggest that he take it up with the
MGEU because they have never, never suggested to us that we should not have a
process to properly reclassify positions with their responsibilities.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The time for Question Period has expired.
ORDERS OF
THE DAY
Hon. Clayton Manness
(Government House Leader): Madam Deputy
Speaker, would you call second readings of the following bills: Bill 22, Bill
23 and Bill 25.
SECOND
Bill 22‑The
Public Sector Reduced Work Week
and Compensation
Management Act
Hon. Clayton Manness
(Minister of Finance): Madam Deputy
Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Justice and Attorney General (Mr.
McCrae), that Bill 22, The Public Sector Reduced Work Week And Compensation
Management Act (Loi sur la reduction de la semaine de travail et la gestion des
salaires dans le secteur public), be now read a second time and be referred to
a committee of this House.
Motion presented.
Mr. Manness: Madam Deputy Speaker, I am introducing Bill
22, The Public Sector Reduced Work Week and Compensation Management Act.