LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Monday, April 26, 1993

 

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

 

PRAYERS

 

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

 

PRESENTING PETITIONS

Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk):  Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of H. Lindblom, Darwin Massey, Barry Flett and others requesting the Family Services minister (Mr. Gilleshammer) consider restoring funding for friendship centres in Manitoba.

* * *

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson):  Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of William Collins, Howard Almdal, Leanne Urbanski and others requesting the Minister of Family Services (Mr. Gilleshammer) to consider restoring funding of the student social allowance program.

* * *

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):  Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Keith Sparvier, Lydia Sparvier, Trent Sparvier and others requesting the Family Services minister (Mr. Gilleshammer) consider restoring funding for the friendship centres in Manitoba.

 

READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS

 

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Mr. Martindale).  It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

Mr. Clerk (William Remnant):  The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

      WHEREAS Manitoba has the highest rate of child poverty in the country; and

      WHEREAS over 1,000 young adults are currently attempting to get off welfare and upgrade their education through the student social allowances program; and

      WHEREAS Winnipeg already has the highest number of people on welfare in decades; and

      WHEREAS the provincial government has already changed social assistance rules resulting in increased welfare costs for the City of Winnipeg; and

      WHEREAS the provincial government is now proposing to eliminate the student social allowances program; and

      WHEREAS eliminating the student social allowances program will result in more than a thousand young people being forced onto city welfare with no means of getting further full‑time education, resulting in more long‑term costs for city taxpayers.

      WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Minister of Family Services (Mr. Gilleshammer) to consider restoring funding of the student social allowances program.

* * *

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Mr. Dewar).  It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

Mr. Clerk:  The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

      WHEREAS the United Nations has declared 1993 the International Year of the World's Indigenous People with the theme, "Indigenous People:  a new partnership"; and

      WHEREAS the provincial government has totally discontinued funding to all friendship centres; and

      WHEREAS the provincial government has stated that these cuts mirror the federal cuts; and

      WHEREAS the elimination of all funding to friendship centres will result in the loss of many jobs as well as the services and programs provided, such as:  assistance to the elderly, the homeless, youth programming, the socially disadvantaged, families in crisis, education, recreation and cultural programming, housing relocation, fine options, counselling, court assistance, advocacy;

      WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Family Services minister to consider restoring funding for the friendship centres in Manitoba.

* * *

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Ms. Cerilli).  It complies with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

Mr. Clerk:  The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

      WHEREAS Manitoba has the highest rate of child poverty in the country; and

      WHEREAS over 1,000 young adults are currently attempting to get off welfare and upgrade their education through the student social allowances program; and

      WHEREAS Winnipeg already has the highest number of people on welfare in decades; and

      WHEREAS the provincial government has already changed social assistance rules resulting in increased welfare costs for the City of Winnipeg; and

      WHEREAS the provincial government is now proposing to eliminate the student social allowances program; and

      WHEREAS eliminating the student social allowances program will result in more than a thousand young people being forced onto city welfare with no means of getting further full‑time education, resulting in more long‑term costs for city taxpayers.

      WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Minister of Family Services (Mr. Gilleshammer) to consider restoring funding of the student social allowances program.

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Ms. Friesen).  It complies with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

Mr. Clerk:  The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

      WHEREAS Manitoba has the highest rate of child poverty in the country; and

      WHEREAS over 1,000 young adults are currently attempting to get off welfare and upgrade their education through the student social allowances program; and

      WHEREAS Winnipeg already has the highest number of people on welfare in decades; and

      WHEREAS the provincial government has already changed social assistance rules resulting in increased welfare costs for the City of Winnipeg; and

      WHEREAS the provincial government is now proposing to eliminate the student social allowances program; and

      WHEREAS eliminating the student social allowances program will result in more than a thousand young people being forced onto city welfare with no means of getting further full‑time education, resulting in more long‑term costs for city taxpayers.

      WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Minister of Family Services (Mr. Gilleshammer) to consider restoring funding of the student social allowances program.

 

TABLING OF REPORTS

 

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister responsible for The Civil Service Act):  Mr. Speaker, I would like to table today the 1991‑92 Annual Report of the Civil Service Commission of the Province of Manitoba.

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Natural Resources):  Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the Annual Report 1991‑92 of the Department of Natural Resources, along with the Supplementary Information for Legislative Review copy for the year '93‑94.

* (1335)

 

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

 

Bill 28‑The Manitoba Intercultural Council Repeal Act

 

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister responsible for Multiculturalism):  Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Labour (Mr. Praznik), that Bill 28, The Manitoba Intercultural Council Repeal Act (Loi abrogeant la Loi sur le Conseil interculturel du Manitoba), be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.

      His Honour the Lieutenant‑Governor, having been advised of the contents of this bill, recommends it to the House.  I would like to table that message also.

Motion agreed to.

 

Bill 27‑The Environment Amendment Act (2)

 

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Downey), that Bill 27, The Environment Amendment Act (2) (Loi no 2 modifiant la Loi sur l'environnement), be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.

Motion agreed to.

 

Bill 212‑The Dauphin Memorial Community Centre Board Repeal Act

 

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin):  I move, seconded by the member for Flin Flon (Mr. Storie), that Bill 212, The Dauphin Memorial Community Centre Board Repeal Act (Loi abrogeant la Loi sur le Conseil du Centre commemoratif de Dauphin), be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.

Motion agreed to.

 

Introduction of Guests

 

Mr. Speaker:  Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery, where we have with us this afternoon from the Sargent Park School eighty‑six Grade 9 students under the direction of Mr. Robert Forrester.  This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Wellington (Ms. Barrett).

      On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to welcome you here this afternoon.

 

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

 

Farmers Alfalfa Products

Government Assistance

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, my question is to the First Minister, chair of the Economic Development Board of Cabinet.

      Mr. Speaker, in 1991, the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) announced that video lottery terminal revenues would be used for initiatives to complement rural economic development.  Again, this last week, on April 22, 1993, the Premier announced funds to be available from video lottery terminals, not all the funds as was first announced in 1991, but funds would be announced for rural economic development to provide for value‑added jobs and to allow for business ventures to survive in rural communities.

      Mr. Speaker, on the weekend I had the honour of visiting the alfalfa plant in Dauphin.  The people in that community, the people who are working directly in the plant, the producers who produce the raw material and the people in the coffee shops in the Parkland region cannot understand why the government cannot find a way to provide leadership to bridge the tough economic situation the alfalfa plant is facing this crop year.

      I would like to ask the Premier:  Of all the announcements they have made to support rural economic development, is there not a way to help the alfalfa plant in Dauphin and the producers of alfalfa in that community?  It is one of the largest private employers in that community.  It produces economic benefit of some $800,000 per year to that Parkland region.  Can the Premier not find a way, with all these programs, to bridge this very challenging situation?

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Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, without addressing, because it would take too long to correct all the inaccuracies within the preamble of the question that the Leader of the Opposition put forward, I will say to him that even during the time of the government of which he was a part, they steadfastly took the position that operating expenses on behalf of businesses that were failing were not something any government could get into, that the operating side of the expenses of a business was the responsibility of that business with the commercial lenders‑‑the banks, the credit unions, the various financial institutions.  They were the ones who had to take the responsibility for that.

      We have statements on record by members of the Pawley administration that there was not enough money in government to do that, that there are businesses which get into difficulty day after day after day, that if government was to guarantee their operating line of credit or get into their operating expenditures, there just simply would not be enough money to go around.

      He is the first person, Mr. Speaker, to get up and talk about us supporting business and giving support to business.  I can give him dozens and dozens of examples that come through week after week of people who say, there has been a change in my trucking business because of deregulation; I just need government to guarantee my line of credit for the next six months or a year or whatever.

      Mr. Speaker, it is not possible.  No government in this country has taken on that kind of responsibility.

Mr. Doer:  Mr. Speaker, I guess last Thursday, people in the Parkland region and people across Manitoba thought there would be some helping hand from the video lottery terminal revenue that was reannounced by the Premier last week, some close to two years after the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) announced all money from video lottery terminals would go back to rural economic development.  I would refer the Deputy Premier to his original press release.

      That kind of nitpicking does not help the people in Dauphin and Parkland.  The bottom line is, Mr. Speaker, they have been in business for 20 years.  They had a tough crop year last year.  It is a business that takes raw products and value‑adds them in Manitoba.  It is one of the largest operations on the private side in the Dauphin‑Parkland region.  The producers themselves have pledged between $80,000 and $100,000 to keep this plant going.

      Is there not any way in this very difficult time to find a way to keep this plant going so we can have these jobs and these opportunities in Manitoba for another 20 years, rather than have them proceed to an auction which is scheduled on May 22?

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, this is not nitpicking to say that the government cannot take on the responsibility of the operating expenses of companies that are in difficulty.

      If the member opposite wants to have examples of it, examples that demonstrated to his own government when they were in office, he only needs to look at King Choy Foods, at the aircraft manufacturers, Saunders Aircraft, at all of those enterprises that the Schreyer government took on by virtue of, firstly, getting into loan guarantees just simply to guarantee their operating lines of credit that ultimately resulted in them taking on the ownership and millions and millions of dollars of losses for the public of Manitoba.

      It is one thing to put in investments from video lottery terminals for start‑up costs; it is one thing for setting in place kinds of guarantee programs for the initial expenditures or for particular job‑creating activities in the beginning.  It is another thing to take on the responsibility for guaranteeing their operating line of credit when they are in financial difficulty.  There are literally dozens, if not hundreds of firms in Manitoba that would make the same call tomorrow on the government of Manitoba.  I can assure him of that, Mr. Speaker.

* (1345)

Mr. Doer:  Successive governments have attempted to try to work with private companies, co‑operative companies, with producers to diversify our crops in western Canada.  I think we were involved in the Carnation plant, as I recall, Mr. Speaker, to get Carnation located here for potato producers so that we could be exporting across the world in terms of that production‑‑a very major investment.

      Now this, admittedly, by scale, is much smaller.  Mr. Speaker, I do understand that 27 jobs that have been there for 20 years are in jeopardy right now for want of a loan guarantee from the provincial government.  I understand that 20 producers have signed $5,000 loan guarantees themselves to try to make this company operate.  Is there not any way that the Premier and his government can find a way to bridge this difficult situation based on the last year's very, very moist crop situation and poor grade of product, so that we can see these vital jobs maintained in Manitoba and primary produce value‑added with the kind of operation we see in the alfalfa plant?  Is there not any way through this to provide some leadership to keep these jobs going for another 20 years in Manitoba?

      They paid taxes for 20 years.  We need these people and these jobs in this province.

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, if this is indeed just a short‑term problem, banks and financial institutions evaluate that.  They do not want to go and lose their equity in a company, their loans, their operating lines of credit.  They do not want to lose that. If they saw an opportunity for getting out of it, then they would be the first ones to say, okay, your pro forma statement says that within six months or nine months or a year, you will be out of this, and they exercise that kind of logical analysis.

      They are not in the business of wanting to lose whatever share of money they have in it.  The fact of the matter is‑‑I repeat for him‑‑that this is the kind of thing that has been looked at by previous governments, including New Democratic governments.  If you were to go and guarantee the operating line of credit for every business that, because of some change in market or climate or anything else, got into difficulty, you would have hundreds on your doorstep tomorrow.

      You would have printing companies, trucking companies, all sorts of companies that are in this time of difficulty, Mr. Speaker, there saying it is the government's responsibility.  I can guarantee him that I have had contacts from many, many businesses in many different fields who ask for the same thing.

 

Personal Care Homes

Rate Structure

 

Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (St. Johns):  I would like to ask the Minister responsible for Seniors some questions about a growing concern being expressed by many people in this province, particularly the senior citizens of Manitoba who are currently in personal care homes and are very worried about the increases in rates they are facing.

      This concern has been exacerbated by the lack of information from the government itself.  In fact, the government has made matters worse by repealing the regulation covering payments under The Health Services Insurance Act.

      I would like to ask the minister:  When will this government be releasing the regulations which outline the changes to the rate structure for personal care homes in this province?

Hon. Gerald Ducharme (Minister responsible for Seniors):  Mr. Speaker, how we have been handling the concerns that have come forward, we have asked the people to bring their examples until those regulations come forward, and the minister responsible in Health has expressed in questions in the House that he will be getting to the regulations shortly.

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis:  Mr. Speaker, to help the minister do his job in terms of speaking up for seniors, I will table a letter that went to all personal care home residents, dated April 6, from the Assistant Deputy Minister of Health indicating rate increases for personal care homes as high as 74 percent.

      I want to ask the Minister responsible for Seniors if he can tell us today how many people will be affected by this government's changes to the rate structure.  How many people will have to pay the maximum, and how many will see their fees increase and by much?

Mr. Ducharme:  I do not have to be lectured by that member across the way on seniors issues.

      Mr. Speaker, the people involved are based on the ability to pay, and as expressed to the member just in my first response, the minister responsible for Health will be getting those regulations through, and those questions will be answered by that minister.

* (1350)

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis:  Mr. Speaker, we are talking about senior citizens who have worked all their lives‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  I remind the honourable member for St. Johns, this is not a time for debate.  The honourable member, with her question, please.

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis:  I would like the minister to give some information to us and to the seniors in this province. Specifically, what definition of income will be used in determining the level at which personal care home residents will be billed?  Will family income be taken into consideration?  How is the income level derived?

Mr. Ducharme:  Mr. Speaker, as expressed in my two previous responses, the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) will have those regulations available to the public, and any inquiries that we are getting through our Seniors secretariat, we are taking down examples that they have laid out to us, and we carry them forward and get them back to those individual people.

      So someone who has some questions in regard to personal care and is at that standstill right now, we ask them to phone our Seniors office, and we will get back to them on what the costs are on May 1.

Endangered Spaces

Manitoba Protection Record

 

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James):  Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Natural Resources.

      The minister was one of the first signatories to the Endangered Spaces Campaign administered by the World Wildlife Fund whereby 12 percent of the land from representative areas was to be set aside and preserved in its natural state.  With much fanfare, this minister signed on in September of 1990 and very quickly proved himself worthy of a D grade from the World Wildlife Fund with the notation, unfulfilled expectations.

      Mr. Speaker, Endangered Spaces has now produced a map and sent it to the minister last week, which shows that he is in line for another D or worse.

      My question for the minister:  Why has this minister, after two and a half years of this program, of having signed on to it, only adequately protected 2 percent of Manitoba's land mass which is one‑sixth of what he was supposed to protect and said he would?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Natural Resources):  Mr. Speaker, the honourable member and I think all members ought to be aware that the designation of land, particularly under this designation, to be set aside for all time, is a very serious business.  We have in the course of these two years undertaken extensive public hearings under the Natural Lands Strategy sponsored by the round table that asked Manitobans throughout the province about their thoughts and views on this and other subjects.

      Mr. Speaker, I am also well aware that when I signed that document committing this government to the principles of the Endangered Spaces Program it was, in fact, a goal to be achieved by the year 2000.

      I am satisfied that, very shortly, with the introduction of new park lands legislation into this Legislature and other initiatives, we will demonstrate to the satisfaction of certainly those who are watching the province on this regard, that we are prepared to keep our commitments.

 

Government Initiatives

 

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James):  Mr. Speaker, the minister says he needs more time.

      My question for the minister:  Why, when he got his report card last year, did he tie for second‑last place?  He tied with Alberta which was not even committed, which had not even signed on to this.  The rest of the country is doing far better and far more than this minister.

      My question for the minister, Mr. Speaker, is:  Between now and when the next report card comes out in September, what is this minister going to do to warrant a better mark than second‑last place in this country, a D?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Natural Resources):  Mr. Speaker, I am prepared to operate within the principles of the Endangered Spaces Program and set aside and designate very substantial acres of land in the province of Manitoba to the Endangered Spaces Program.

 

Provincial Parks Protection

 

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James):  Mr. Speaker, my final question for the minister:  Will the minister commit today to giving his words in his press conferences some credibility, by putting some protection into the meaning of a park or a wildlife management area, given that currently of Manitoba's nine provincial parks, all but one allow logging and the designation of a wildlife management area effectively excludes nothing because this minister has given himself an override for any use on any land?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Natural Resources):  Mr. Speaker, I would invite the honourable member to await the introduction of new park lands legislation into this Legislature.  That would be the appropriate time to debate these issues.

 

Assiniboine River Diversion

Clean Environment Commission Hearings

 

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson):  Mr. Speaker, the Clean Environment Commission hearing dates have been set for June 14 to 30 on the Assiniboine Diversion.  We were shocked to see that none of the dates are in Winnipeg and in fact there are no sites downstream of the Assiniboine Diversion set for Clean Environment Commission hearings even though, logically, the downstream effects are going to be some of the most important effects to study.

      Can the Minister of Environment confirm that these dates have been set and that there are no downstream sites for the Assinboine Diversion project Clean Environment hearings?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Mr. Speaker, in setting the dates, the commission looked at the various areas where both proponents and opponents would have an opportunity and a good logical setting for them to appear and make their feelings known.  While very often we have meetings in the city of Winnipeg and expect rural Manitobans to drive in, this is one of those situations where largely the interest that has been expressed up to this point, both opposition and in favour of the project, is largely centred in the Portage la Prairie and up to the Shellmouth area, and it seemed like a reasonable compromise that the commission recommended.

* (1355)

Ms. Cerilli:  Mr. Speaker, does the minister have any environmental explanation or rationale for not having downstream communities sited?

Mr. Cummings:  Mr. Speaker, I answered this same question last week from the member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar) about asking for additional sites for the hearings.  I suggested to him, as I would suggest to this member, that if there are significant interests that are expressed and concerns that cannot be answered by the present format, then I hope the public will let the commission know.

      Frankly, Mr. Speaker, it seems to me that the locations are all within a very short driving range of those who have expressed interest and concern, and we have accepted the commission's recommendation.

 

Addendum

 

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson):  Mr. Speaker, the City of Winnipeg Council passed a resolution on behalf of all the citizens of Winnipeg‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  This is not a time for debate.

Ms. Cerilli:  Does the minister have a legal opinion on the addendum proposed for the Assiniboine Diversion so that we can be assured that these hearings are not for a project that is illegal because it is changing the project in the middle of the environmental assessment?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Mr. Speaker, the staff who are reviewing the proposals have been very conscious of the fact that there was an addendum brought in in the middle of the setting of the guidelines, and they have been very conscious about making sure that the public was made aware of this and that they had an opportunity and will have continuing opportunity to comment on it.

      I am quite concerned that the member would suggest that there has been, in any way, an attempt to cut off debate or a lack of encouragement for people to attend at the hearings.  I suggest if there are others out there who concur with her, they should let the commission know.

 

Autopac

Auto Repair Estimates

 

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):  I have a question for the Minister responsible for the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation.

      Mr. Speaker, there is evidence that runaway costs have led to exorbitant premium increases under this government, and I now have evidence on Autopac repair assessments being substantially higher than estimates of autobody shops.

      A citizen came to me with five written estimates on a 1989 Toyota Camry which received damage to front and rear doors and the rear bumper.  These estimates range from‑‑the cheapest was $353 and up to $510.72; the next was $605.34; $776.29, and the highest private autobody estimate was $1,105.44.

      He then went to Autopac, and they gave him an estimate of $1,449.16.  That is over $300 higher than the highest private estimate and four times higher than the lowest‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member for Brandon East, put his question, please.

Mr. Leonard Evans:  Mr. Speaker, members opposite may be impatient, but we have to put the information on the record.

Mr. Speaker:  You did.  Order, please.  Put your question, please.

Mr. Leonard Evans:  This gentleman is very upset, and my question to the minister is:  Why is there such a dramatic difference between the private estimates and the Autopac estimates?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act):  Mr. Speaker, first of all, I hope he intends to table that information so it can be reviewed in detail.  Secondly, I presume that the member is unaware that in terms of the cost of repairing the autobody repair side as compared to the cost of repairing the human bodies in damage that occurred, the autobody repair side, the tin and the plastic, the cost of increases there in the last three years have been and are running at or below the rate of inflation.

      I would presume that the member has researched this and found out that Manitoba's autobody rates that the corporation pays are certainly well within the same rates that are paid across western Canada.

Mr. Leonard Evans:  I have another question of the minister.

      I would ask the minister if he would undertake an investigation of the methods and procedures now being used by Autopac with a view to stopping what appears to be an overly generous estimating procedure by Autopac, because another citizen came with the same story, $375 for the private and $524 for Autopac.

* (1400)

Mr. Cummings:  Mr. Speaker, it is quite obvious that it has been some time since the member has been reviewing some of the work that is associated with autobody repair.

      I will be glad to invest some considerable amount of time in providing answers and the details he is asking for, but I should remind you that it is very interesting that I get a lot of letters in my office asking us why we are using recycled parts. People out there are of two minds when they have their vehicles damaged, whether or not it should be repaired to the absolute new condition or whether the cost‑saving practice of using recycled parts is allowed.  I would be interested in that member's opinion.

Mr. Leonard Evans:  Incidentally, this gentleman went to the autobody shop that would do it for $600‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

Mr. Leonard Evans:  Will this minister acknowledge that there appears to be a two‑price system that has developed, one through Autopac estimation and one through private autobody shop estimates?  Will he take action now to stop what appears to be a rip‑off situation?

Mr. Cummings:  Mr. Speaker, I asked the member to table that information.  I presume he will.  That will be appropriately investigated and answered.  I would remind the member that it was since this government came into office that we moved to eliminate the rebating for replacement of windshields, which he thought was okay when he was in office.

 

Stubble Burning Enforcement

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Environment.

      On April 15 the minister, along with the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Findlay), issued a statement and a policy with regard to stubble burning.  I asked the question to the minister on Friday, because I had noticed some fires coming back from Dauphin on the previous evening, and I got the following response from the Minister of Environment.  He said:  "If there were complaints that were registered, we would respond to them."  That sounded like a very positive statement about what the Department of Environment was prepared to do.  Several hours later, as I was driving in my vehicle to the lake, I listened to an interview conducted by Jim Rae with Carl Orcutt, the ADM of the Environmental Operations Division, who responded to a question that there was no enforcement policy in the department with respect to stubble burning.

      Now, what are the citizens of this province to believe‑‑the minister who says that they will respond or the assistant deputy minister who says they do not have a policy?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Mr. Speaker, I presume that my comment will be the one that will be correct.

      Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Second Opposition referenced the fact that she saw some fires that were burning two hours after dark.  I would ask, did she turn in a report?  She did not.  Secondly, the only call that I have had in my office was from a person who said they saw a fire, and they were given the number to call.  They said, well, it is no problem, and they hung up.  So, if there are concerns out there, the response will be available from the department.

      The time of year in which we are presently living is when we are basically allowing daytime burning unrestricted.  We have the power that if that burning is being done in such a way that it is causing difficulties for an urban area or fires are left uncontrolled after dark, we have the authority to deal with them and we will.

      I really am concerned why the member is not supporting this policy.  It would seem to me that this is the kind of approach that goes beyond the approach that the Liberal Party ever asked for.

 

24‑Hour Response Line

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, I just want the policy enforced.  The minister says I did not report it.  Well, I thought I reported it to the highest authority, the minister himself, at the earliest possible opportunity.  But, just to make sure that it was done properly, I looked up in my directory.  I could not find the 24‑hour response line, so I phoned information, 2211, and I was referred to 5017. That, I was told, was a wrong number, so then I was referred to 8132.  I was then told that was not the right number.  Then I called Mr. Orcutt's office, and I was told there would be no such number until September.

      Can the minister tell the House today, what is the 24‑hour response line that I am supposed to call to report?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Mr. Speaker, I would be interested to know the question that the member put to the people on the other end of the line.  If she asked if this was an emergency line for stubble burning, the fact is, that line, the 1‑800 line is to be established in the fall.  If she has a complaint about a specific fire that is out of control, then all she needs to do is say so when she is on that line.

Mrs. Carstairs:  Mr. Speaker, I was just following the minister's advice.  On Friday the minister said, we have a 24‑hour response line at the department.  So we called all of these numbers to find out just what was the 24‑hour response line.  That is what we wanted to know.

      Can the minister stand in the House and tell me, as well as all the other citizens of the province of Manitoba, what is the number? [laughter]

Mr. Cummings:  Mr. Speaker, while this elicits some laughter on our side, this is a serious situation, because she is misrepresenting the information that I gave her.  She also misrepresented the information that she was receiving.

      Mr. Speaker, the 1‑800 line for responses to stubble burning complaints will be in position to deal with the controlled period, which is starting the 1st of August this fall.  If they have a problem with a fire that is out of control today, call the 24‑hour line that is in existence, but do not phone them and ask them if they are the stubble response line‑‑dumb.

 

Aboriginal Farmers

Government Assistance

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  Mr. Speaker, I have questions for the Minister of Agriculture about several farm groups.

      The Minister of Agriculture on Friday indicated that he did not have any interest or responsibility for the aboriginal farmers who are not able to get operating loans this spring, through no fault of their own.  However, they are Manitoba farmers.

      Has the minister lobbied the federal government, or has he made contact with the Department of Indian Affairs or the Department of Industry, Science and Technology to assure that the necessary loans are in place so that rice growers and the rice processors can operate this year?  They are a vital part to Manitoba's agriculture.

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture):  Mr. Speaker, I regret the member says I have no interest.  That is absolutely wrong.  It was never said.  I wish she would apologize for that misrepresentation.

      I told her the process that is in place is federal money for funding aboriginal farmers.  Aboriginal farmers, in addition to that, have access to all the existing plans and programs in the Department of Agriculture in the province of Manitoba.

Ms. Wowchuk:  Mr. Speaker, I assume from that answer I received, the minister is saying that aboriginal people can go to MACC for loans.

 

Sugar Beet Industry

Future Status

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  I want to ask the minister about another group of farmers.

      Has he made any decision, or has he taken any action on the sugar beet farmers who are waiting for his decision on an agreement?  Can he tell us whether the workers at the sugar beet plant will be working this year, or is that something else that he does not care about‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member has put her question.

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Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture):  That member knows so little, she thinks she has all the answers.

      I have had in the vicinity of a dozen meetings on this issue with the company, with the Alberta government, with the federal government, with the growers in Manitoba, with the growers in Alberta.  Our offer is very clearly on the table, I will tell the member.  She knows that very clearly.  It has been on the table for some time.

      It is an increase in the expenditure in my department for stabilization from $375,000 to $626,000 involving Agriculture and Industry, Trade and Tourism.  That offer is on the table.  The federal government has made an offer in Alberta.  I would assume they will match it here in Manitoba, and nobody has seen fit yet to accept that offer.

Ms. Wowchuk:  But, Mr. Speaker, the Alberta government has signed an agreement‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  I remind the honourable member for Swan River, this is not a time for debate.  The honourable member, kindly put your question now, please.

 

Alfalfa Industry

Interlake Plant

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Minister of Agriculture, if this government is not prepared to support the alfalfa plant in Dauphin where they have the expertise and they have established markets and people who are prepared to support the industry, can he tell us why his government is encouraging the people in the Interlake area to proceed with an alfalfa plant?

      If there is no work‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member has put her question.

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Agriculture):  Mr. Speaker, the alfalfa industry has been developing in Manitoba over many years.  Last year we sent a mission to places like Japan.

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin):  It really helped.

Mr. Findlay:  The member for Dauphin does not care that we are trying to help the alfalfa producers in Manitoba.

      Mr. Speaker, we sent the mission to Japan involving two individuals from the Interlake who are investigating the possibility of setting up dehyd plants.  I will tell the member there is a very good market in Japan for high‑quality alfalfa, long‑fibred, cubed instead of pelleted.  Those people went over and investigated that market opportunity and are continuing to explore it and looking towards making their investment.

      There are many, many companies in the province of Manitoba presently in the alfalfa business, and many looking at getting into it.  I would remind the member that it is very complex.