LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Monday, May 3, 1993

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

PRAYERS

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

PRESENTING PETITIONS

Mr. Clif Evans (Interlake): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Darcy C. Bialas, Keith W. Wark, Barry L. Dowsett and others requesting the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) consider restoring the Children's Dental Program to the level it was prior to the 1993‑94 budget.

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Sandy Murray, Donna Illerbrun, Brian Kiliwnik and others requesting the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) consider restoring the Children's Dental Program to the level it was prior to the 1993‑94 budget.

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Arlene Motuz, Val McFarlane, Linda Masters and others requesting the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) consider restoring the Children's Dental Program to the level it was prior to the 1993‑94 budget.

Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Ken Parenteau, Rick Burgess, Bonnie Hartley and others requesting the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) consider restoring the Children's Dental Program to the level it was prior to the 1993‑94 budget.

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Myrna Swalm, Janet Kellow, Leesa Mackie and others requesting the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) consider restoring the Children's Dental Program to the level it was prior to the 1993‑94 budget.

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Lillian Strahl, R.E. Lee, S. Wiebe and others requesting the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) consider restoring the Children's Dental Program to the level it was prior to the 1993‑94 budget.

READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS

Mr. Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Mrs. Carstairs). It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules (by leave). Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

Mr. Clerk (William Remnant): The petition of the undersigned residents of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

WHEREAS the Misericordia General Hospital has served Winnipeg for over 95 years; and

WHEREAS the Misericordia General Hospital has a long record of dedication and service to its local community and the broader Winnipeg community; and

WHEREAS the Misericordia General Hospital is identified by the residents in the surrounding area as "their hospital"; and

WHEREAS the Misericordia Hospital plays an integral part in maintaining and promoting the health of the community; and

WHEREAS the Misericordia Hospital provides diverse services including emergency, ambulatory care, diagnostic and inpatient services, acute and chronic care which are vital to the community; and

WHEREAS the Misericordia Hospital is currently engaged in developing innovative and progressive community‑based outreach programs; and

WHEREAS the Misericordia Hospital is ideally located to be within the "hub" of the health care delivery network for Winnipeg.

WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly urge the government of Manitoba to consider keeping the Misericordia Hospital open as an acute care facility.

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Mr. Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Ms. Wowchuk). It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

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Mr. Clerk: The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

WHEREAS the United Nations has declared 1993 the International Year of the World's Indigenous People with the theme, "Indigenous People: a new partnership"; and

WHEREAS the provincial government has totally discontinued funding to all friendship centres; and

WHEREAS the provincial government has stated that these cuts mirror the federal cuts; and

WHEREAS the elimination of all funding to friendship centres will result in the loss of many jobs as well as the services and programs provided, such as: assistance to the elderly, the homeless, youth programming, the socially disadvantaged, families in crisis, education, recreation and cultural programming, housing relocation, fine options, counselling, court assistance, advocacy;

WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Family Services minister to consider restoring funding for the friendship centres in Manitoba.

Mr. Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Mr. Dewar). It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

Mr. Clerk: The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

WHEREAS the United Nations has declared 1993 the International Year of the World's Indigenous People with the theme, "Indigenous People: a new partnership"; and

WHEREAS the provincial government has totally discontinued funding to all friendship centres; and

WHEREAS the provincial government has stated that these cuts mirror the federal cuts; and

WHEREAS the elimination of all funding to friendship centres will result in the loss of many jobs as well as the services and programs provided, such as: assistance to the elderly, the homeless, youth programming, the socially disadvantaged, families in crisis, education, recreation and cultural programming, housing relocation, fine options, counselling, court assistance, advocacy;

WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Family Services minister to consider restoring funding for the friendship centres in Manitoba.

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Mr. Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Ms. Friesen). It complies with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

Mr. Clerk: The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

WHEREAS Manitoba has the highest rate of child poverty in the country; and

WHEREAS over 1,000 young adults are currently attempting to get off welfare and upgrade their education through the Student Social Allowances Program; and

WHEREAS Winnipeg already has the highest number of people on welfare in decades; and

WHEREAS the provincial government has already changed social assistance rules resulting in increased welfare costs for the City of Winnipeg; and

WHEREAS the provincial government is now proposing to eliminate the Student Social Allowances Program; and

WHEREAS eliminating the Student Social Allowances Program will result in more than a thousand young people being forced onto city welfare with no means of getting further full‑time education, resulting in more long‑term costs for city taxpayers.

WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Minister of Family Services (Mr. Gilleshammer) to consider restoring funding of the Student Social Allowances Program.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

AND TABLING OF REPORTS

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Natural Resources): Mr. Speaker, I know honourable members will wish to express appreciation to the Manitoba Forestry Association for the annual tree that they provide to all members here as a renewal of growth and the oncoming of summer and the coming year.

I have a proclamation that I would like to read:

WHEREAS Canada's forests are one of the major aspects of our national heritage; and

WHEREAS our forests provide millions of Canadians and visitors with opportunities for healthful recreation and sport each year; and

WHEREAS these same forests provide protection in our watersheds for soil and crops and form a home for our wildlife and also provide thousands of Canadians with jobs in the forest products industries; and

WHEREAS the losses suffered each year through man‑made forest fires are detrimental to the interests of all Canadians; and

WHEREAS the Manitoba Forestry Association is well known for its efforts in reminding us of our ever present responsibility for the conservation of our forest wealth and is co‑operating in the promotion of a national week focussing attention on our forest resources.

NOW THEREFORE BE IT KNOWN that I, Harry J. Enns, Minister of Natural Resources, do hereby recognize the days from May 2 to May 8, 1993, as National Forest Week in Manitoba and commend its observance to all our citizens of our province.

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Does the honourable minister have a couple of copies of said proclamation? Has he only got the one?‑‑because traditionally in the House, when we make a ministerial statement, we do provide the critics with a copy.

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Mr. Speaker, I guess I will thank the minister for having placed a tree on my desk. I will take it home when next I go to The Pas and plant it in my back yard.

I wanted to say that this government somehow continues to claim that everything is fine and all right in forestry, but the facts, I am afraid, tell us otherwise. I think it is time that some of our cabinet ministers on the government side leave their offices and travel to places like Pine Falls or to northern Manitoba to see first‑hand what is actually going on in the forests of this province.

Mr. Speaker, while the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) and the Premier (Mr. Filmon) were congratulating the federal government for their budget last week, that same budget announced the demise of federal‑provincial forestry and mining agreements, and because mining mostly takes place in northern Manitoba, forestry, and so on, it is northern Manitoba that was a loser in that budget.

While the federal government budget was mostly a smoke‑and‑mirrors pre‑election maneuvering, there are special cuts which will affect northern Manitoba especially.

Over the past five years, mutual development agreements have already been downgraded significantly in Manitoba. The previous NDP government negotiated a $24‑million mines agreement for five years, $14 million of which was federal money. In 1991, the current government signed a similar agreement for a joint $5‑million agreement. Last week, the federal government announced that there would be no new forestry or mining joint agreements.

The forestry industry in this province is in terrible shape already. We are concerned very much on this side that the province will not pick up the added cost for forest management. We have a major task just restoring the forests to the shape that they were in before 1989.

I want to close off by saying that we have to do something with Repap. We have to do something with Pine Falls, and, also, we have to do something with the Clearwater Lake Nursery that was slashed by the government a year ago. Thank you very much.

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Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James): Mr. Speaker, I wonder if, at the outset, I might recommend to the minister that he also share some of these trees with city councillors. It would be an opportune time, I think, to share the trees.

Mr. Speaker, in all seriousness, this is another National Forest Week that we are celebrating in this province and across this country and, of course, I want to join with the minister and with the Forestry Association in the sentiments expressed in the proclamation. I only wish that those sentiments were reflected in the government's and this minister's actions from year to year as we assess it.

Mr. Speaker, I do not want to belabour the points I have made in prior years because they all still apply this year. Nothing has changed in the government's agenda. Now, there is an opportunity with a new Parks act, which we are all looking forward to, to perhaps salvage some of that reputation on the protection of forests, but as we learned with the Nopiming forest decision and this government's summary dismissal of the recommendations and the findings of that report, this government's actions never match the words and the rhetoric in things like this proclamation. I look forward to the day that they do.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): I am pleased to table the Supplementary Information for the Department of Education and Training for the '93‑94 Estimates expenditures.

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister responsible for the administration of The Manitoba Telephone Act): I would like to table the 1992 Annual Report of the Manitoba Telephone System.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

Bill 29‑The Minors Intoxicating Substances Control Act

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard), that Bill 29, The Minors Intoxicating Substances Control Act (Loi sur le controle des substances intoxicantes et les mineurs), be introduced and that the same be now received and read a first time.

Motion agreed to.

Introduction of Guests

Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery, where we have with us this afternoon from the Garden City Collegiate, twenty‑five Grade 9 students under the direction of the Mr. Gary Jackson. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak).

On behalf of all members, I would like to welcome you here this afternoon.

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

The City of Winnipeg

Infrastructure Renewal

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon).

Mr. Speaker, last week and throughout the last number of years, dealing with discussions on the city of Winnipeg, all groups have come to a consensus that infrastructure renewal must be the No. 1 priority for capital projects of the City of Winnipeg. In fact, 20 groups came together last week at the Chamber of Commerce and again reiterated the priority of infrastructure renewal, particularly when the city of Winnipeg is stagnated in terms of its growth, and that much of the present infrastructure requires renewal.

Mr. Speaker, we are in receipt of a copy of the letter‑‑and I will table it‑‑that the government issued to the City of Winnipeg, outlining a number of specific capital projects in their $96‑million capital program for the next five years.

I would like to ask the government: What was the criteria that the government chose to make specific decisions on specific capital projects for the city of Winnipeg?

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Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Urban Affairs): Firstly, let me say that over the five‑ or six‑year period, there is a $96‑million capital commitment to the City of Winnipeg. Mr. Speaker, $30 million of that $96 million is entirely at the city's discretion to deal with as they wish. Of that $96 million, a further $40 million deals with infrastructure replacement, entirely at the city's discretion, to do with as they wish. The last $26 million of the $96 million is based upon a review of city projects by the provincial government and for which the provincial government has input related to individual projects.

On November 26, Mr. Speaker‑‑and I will table a letter from Her Worship the Mayor‑‑outlined a number of projects from which the province could be expected to choose. These were high‑priority projects for the City of Winnipeg. That letter outlines, I believe, every single project that we outlined in our letter of April 23, I believe with the exception of one project, the Charleswood bridge.

Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, I asked the minister the criteria of the specific decisions. We have reviewed the letter of the minister of April 30: $13 million for the Charleswood bridge; $1.7 million for Kenaston Boulevard; $1.3 million for Wilkes; $2.2 million for a St. Anne's Road project.

Mr. Speaker, there is a further $1 million for the La Salle bridge, which we consider to be part of the Pembina corridor and not part of any Conservative constituency.

When we look at the total of $24 million to $25 million, some 75 percent is allocated in ridings held by the present Conservative members. I would like to know, what was the criteria used by the government for those decisions?

Mr. Ernst: Mr. Speaker, I should perhaps draw the member's attention to the fact that when he was Urban Affairs minister, the Leader of the Opposition approved a certain bridge in the north end of Winnipeg. I would not want to attribute any political motives to the approval of that bridge, but I want to tell you that the letter I just tabled from the mayor outlines every single project except the Charleswood bridge. That is what the city wanted.

Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, the Premier (Mr. Filmon) never raised concerns about our projects because they were city‑wide‑‑sewage treatment plants, infrastructure renewal, some 85 percent.

I would like to ask the Premier, what was the criteria for selecting the projects, some of them located in the Premier's own riding? That, in itself, should not disqualify people. I would like to know why 75 percent of the specific capital projects agreed to by the provincial Conservative government are in ridings held by the provincial Conservative Party. What was the criteria, given that everybody now, with stagnated urban population growth, has agreed that infrastructure renewal should be the No. 1 priority for the city of Winnipeg renewal?

Mr. Ernst: Mr. Speaker, perhaps the honourable Leader of the Opposition cannot understand what the mayor said in her letter.

What the letter said was that there are certain projects the city wanted to see. We chose all but one of those projects. That one project happens to be a major construction project, the Charleswood bridge, that has been in the works for 30 years. It is not something that happened overnight.

Emergency Room Physicians

Patient Safety

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, all last week the government stated that everything was fine in the emergency rooms. Yet, we have heard and read stories which indicate, by the proponents of those stories, that patient care may have been compromised, and that there may be in fact bed shortages at the Health Sciences Centre and St. Boniface Hospital.

Can the minister assure this House that no patient who attends in an emergency room will have their care compromised in any way whatsoever?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I know my honourable friend from time to time does not necessarily preamble his questions accurately. This is no exception.

Mr. Speaker, I indicated at all times last week that the system, despite difficulties, was coping with the withdrawal of the emergency room doctors, not the preamble that my honourable friend put on the record.

Further to the weekend experience at the two teaching hospitals, there were difficulties in managing, but, Mr. Speaker, the system did cope. Individuals needing care received that care quite clearly, Sir, though not as expeditiously as they may well have done had the system not been struck over the weekend.

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Negotiations

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, negotiations, I understand, are resuming. The doctors say they had an agreement and the Premier (Mr. Filmon) said, I believe, on open line that they were very close to an agreement from the government's end.

Can the minister, in very simple terms, outline for us today where the impasse is in terms of the agreement the doctors say they have and the agreement the government said they were close to having?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, that is exactly what will be further fleshed out today and tomorrow in ongoing discussions and negotiations, and I am sure my honourable friend in the tradition of a labour‑supported party would not want one side negotiating in a public forum such as the Legislature.

Mr. Chomiak: I would have preferred a settlement, Mr. Speaker.

Mediation

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): My final supplementary to the same minister is: Trust is a key factor in negotiations. Last time there was a dispute of this type, the government brought in, I believe, Wally Fox‑Decent to arbitrate and mediate. Will this government, if the agreement cannot be reached tonight, consider bringing in someone of that stature to try to resolve the matter?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I would not want to presuppose that discussions which commenced today and will be ongoing presumably until a settlement is reached‑‑I would not presume, as my honourable friend may well be predicated to do, that they are doomed to failure.

I think everyone would be well served by a resolution of this dispute, and I am optimistic that the discussions that commenced today will lead to that result, Sir.

Emergency Room Physicians

Update Report

Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The Maples): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

We are one week into the strike by the EMOs, and I would like to ask the minister to give us an update on any major problems over the weekend at local hospitals because of this strike.

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health): As I indicated in an earlier answer to the previous questioner, both Health Sciences Centre and St. Boniface reported increased volumes as one would expect, and in certain circumstances, individuals presenting for emergency care had to wait longer periods of time than one probably would have expected them to wait under more normal circumstances. Despite having Grace Hospital closed completely yesterday, the system did cope.

There was one area of difficulty and that was in the absolute number of stretchers that the two teaching hospitals have, and that has been a difficulty from time to time. However, I am led to believe that the admission arrangements that I have explained on a couple of previous occasions with the community hospitals are working reasonably well.

Patient Safety

Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The Maples): Mr. Speaker, the story in the media indicates there were some serious problems at Health Sciences Centre, and one of the physicians was quoted as saying it was good luck there were no disasters.

Can the minister tell us what the minister's department is doing to ensure that the quality of care will not suffer during what has been the perception for the last 48 hours?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I was just checking some of my notes. As I indicated, the Health Sciences Centre indicates that they were very busy over the weekend and, with the time constraints, as I indicated earlier, some individuals may not have received care as quickly as normal circumstances may well have dictated.

I think one could understand that, but we are told by Health Sciences Centre officials that the department currently is busy but manageable, and there are no concerns about the quality of treatment being provided today.

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Resolution

Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The Maples): Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Health assure the people of Manitoba that this issue can be resolved as quickly as possible to make sure we do not run into another weekend?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, that would be, I think, a reasonable expectation of government's approach to these discussions.

Manitoba Environment Council

Elimination of Volunteer Positions

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Mr. Speaker, Manitoba governments of different parties have benefited over the years from advice and input of the Manitoba Environment Council. These have been experts who have been largely volunteers who meet and advise the minister, and this government does not seem to realize that you have to pay for expert advice and they do not seem to want expert advice on environment issues particularly.

I would ask the Minister of Environment: Why is the minister eliminating the 50 to 100 expert volunteers involved in Manitoba Environment Council? Does he not like the advice he has been getting?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): Mr. Speaker, I am quite interested in the advice that I receive from the council. That has nothing to do with the decision we had to make regarding funding.

The fact is, the grant of $50,000 to help manage the affairs can in fact be partly replaced by the fact that we are prepared to continue with them in terms of space, in terms of secretarial support. It has been a very open and ongoing process. The member for Radisson attended the advisory committee on Saturday, and I am quite prepared to continue to receive advice.

Assiniboine River Diversion

Intervener Funding

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): But, Mr. Speaker, if you want expert advice, you have to pay for it.

Given that under Regulation 210(92) from The Environment Act providing for the minister to set up a scheme for environment assessment hearing cost recovery, when will such an intervener funding scheme be announced for the Assiniboine diversion for the hearings that have been set, so that we can be assured that the best possible information can be presented to the Clean Environment Commission?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): Mr. Speaker, I see the member changed her tactic rather quickly when she realized that for the regular attendance I am receiving at the Manitoba Environment Council, it is costing me about $2,000 apiece per year to hear advice.

I intend to continue receiving advice from that group and hope that the experts, some of whom are part of that council, will continue to provide us advice. It is their knowledge and their input that we need.

In regard to the funding of projects for intervener status, that has a regulation that allows us to provide that for certain types of processes, and this has not been deemed one that we felt required that additional input.

Information Gathering

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Mr. Speaker, members of the council are very critical of this project, and they are not happy with the decision this government has made.

I ask the minister: How does the minister expect to get expert data on the Assiniboine diversion given that there are less than two months before the hearings begin? How does the minister expect that the most correct and well‑put‑together information on this very controversial and‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member has put her question.

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Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment): Mr. Speaker, there are a number of people who are collecting data for presentation to the commission. I have very high regard for the people who have been hired on behalf of the Assiniboine River Protection Committee. I believe that their expertise will be valued at the hearings.

Frankly, on both sides of the issue, there is a considerable amount of expertise being brought to bear, and I would suspect that all of those questions that are now being asked and some concern being raised, that they will be aired and fully addressed at those hearings.

Social Assistance

Child Care Subsidies

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Family Services has reduced the number of subsidized child care weeks for a job search from eight weeks to two weeks, this in spite of the fact that he and his staff have done no research on the number of weeks it takes to find employment. Numerous parents who have phoned me have said that during a recession, two weeks is not enough time to find a job.

Can the minister tell us why in Manitoba he has reduced the number of weeks from eight weeks to two when in Saskatchewan after an initial reduction, they increased the workweek search for subsidized child care from two months to four months? Why this change in Manitoba?

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Family Services): Mr. Speaker, we are pleased to compare our daycare system with that in the province of Saskatchewan. I have indicated before that in Manitoba we spend some four times as much of our resources on daycare. We have increased the number of spaces dramatically by about 3,000 since we took government. We have increased the budget and have many more subsidized spaces now than we had before.

We have had to make some adjustments to the system this year, and we would indicate that we would give individuals who are having some difficulty a chance to talk with departmental staff. I would assure you that they will get fair treatment.

Mr. Martindale: Mr. Speaker, it is obvious that the reason the systems are different is that Saskatchewan had a Conservative government during the 1980s. That is the fundamental difference in the systems.

Mr. Speaker, why did this minister decrease the job search time in Manitoba from eight weeks to two weeks, when in Alberta the job search time can be expanded to three months or four months if the parents provide proof of searching for a job and depending on parental circumstances? Why is it up to four months in Alberta and two weeks in Manitoba?

Mr. Gilleshammer: Mr. Speaker, the enhancement of child daycare in Manitoba has improved dramatically since we formed government in 1988. At that time, the budget was something like $26 million or $27 million. Now it has increased to nearly $50 million.

I point out that we have not changed the regulations with the basic daycare that is provided. We have increased the licensed spaces quite dramatically and have had to make some adjustments in this current budget year, but we will do everything we can to see that those who need to access daycare will be provided with that service.

Mr. Martindale: Mr. Speaker, the minister is making adjustments without doing any research or having any data.

Why did the Minister of Family Services do no research or even contact Canada Employment Centres and ask them how long the average job search takes? Did the minister not know that the average duration of unemployment in Manitoba in March 1993 was 24 weeks according to Statistics Canada?

Mr. Gilleshammer: Mr. Speaker, we have talked about this in the Estimates process in the last couple of weeks and have an opportunity to do so again today.

It is incorrect that we have done no research into this. I have told the member consistently that our budgeting process starts in the late summer, early fall, and that the Child Day Care branch of this department has brought forward a number of statistics where we have had an opportunity to look at the demands on the system prior to making these decisions.

Sexual Assaults

Identity Release

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

Last week, a very disturbing case was raised in this House by my Leader involving a court‑ordered ban on the publication of any information which might identify a child complainant of sexual assault, as well as a ban on publication of information which might reveal the convicted person's profession.

Mr. Speaker, on Friday a news outlet in the city intentionally chose to breach that court order. The Minister of Justice indicated late Friday that his staff would be looking at the issue and reviewing the court order immediately. I believe his statement was that Monday was another workday and there would be an opportunity to discuss this more fully Monday.

It is now Monday. Can the minister indicate today whether or not his office believes the court order was breached by this news outlet on Friday? If so, is his department intending to lay charges?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): The first concern of this department and this minister is the complainant in this matter and also the protection of the public. That is our first concern.

To that end, there will be a meeting tomorrow between counsel for the Crown and the accused, the Winnipeg Free Press, the CBC and, because the complainant is of tender years, the Public Trustee, to review this whole matter related to the confusion created by the unusual circumstances that arose between what was said in the courtroom, what appeared on an order and what other people interpreted that order to mean. That matter will also be before the Queen's Bench tomorrow. Once that day is over, we can address the issue raised by the honourable member.

I remind him that the first concern is the protection of the complainant and the public.

Mr. Edwards: Quite so, Mr. Speaker, exactly why the member for River Heights (Mrs. Carstairs) raised this last Thursday.

Mr. Speaker, on the same issue, in the interim, while this discussion is taking place, will the minister take this opportunity to have his department communicate with news networks in Manitoba to clear up any confusion which now exists‑‑and it does exist‑‑about this government's intention to enforce similar such court orders of which there are of course literally hundreds involving all kinds of cases around this province?

Mr. McCrae: I think the news director for the media outlet involved and the honourable member for St. James may enjoy the luxury of jumping to the conclusion that certain things are or are not. We do have a justice system whose function it is to get to the bottom of these things. We will ensure that this matter is very carefully reviewed.

I remind the honourable member that I think the protection of the complainant is the first thing we ought to be concerned about and protection of the public as well.

Criminal Code of Canada

Review

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James): Mr. Speaker, finally for the minister, given that this case raises the whole issue of exceptions to the normal rule that everything in court is public, will the minister undertake as part of his work this week to have his staff review the relevant provisions of the Criminal Code of Canada dealing with these exceptions, giving judges power to impose these exceptions, and provide the critics of this House with copies of that review or some information after that review is done, so that we might jointly decide whether or not to petition the federal minister to make changes, given that apparently in this case those exceptions did not work in the‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member has put his question.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I think the honourable member and his Leader have taken an interest in this case for obviously all the right reasons. I appreciate that.

I will take all of the honourable member's questions into account in the work that is being done on the part of the Crown this week.

National Mathematics Assessment Test

Minister's Review

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): Mr. Speaker, on Friday when I asked the Minister of Education about the school achievement indicators program for 13‑ and 16‑year‑olds, the minister responded, and I quote: Each province had the opportunity to review the exam and secondly, we will be able to look at Manitoba in relation to the other provinces across Canada in terms of our math achievement.

I want to ask the minister, after having reviewed the test, does she feel that it accurately reflects the work covered in Manitoba in the mathematics curriculum for 13‑ and 16‑year‑olds?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, again, in setting up an exam which was acceptable to all provinces across Canada, those which are participating‑‑all but Saskatchewan‑‑it did take a great deal of work; therefore, it has been divided into a number of areas, into five areas, and then there are levels which will be tested.

Some of the material which is being tested on the SAIP exam is also covered in courses other than the mathematics courses. It is covered in areas such as geography and science. Therefore, we believe that Manitoba's curriculum is covered within the assessment.

Manitoba Curriculum

Relevancy

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): Mr. Speaker, is the minister not aware of the fact that many math concepts being tested of Grade 11s, in the 16‑year‑olds' test, are not even covered in the Manitoba curriculum for Grade 11, and they are not covered until Grade 12? How is that a relevant test to give Grade 11 students?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): As I said, we are confident in Manitoba that our curriculum is being assessed by the SAIP test, and we do recognize that in some provinces across Canada, some of the areas that are being assessed are not necessarily taught within the math program specifically.

I did mention there are two other courses which also teach some of the areas which are being examined which are not specifically covered in the math test, but which are covered within the math curriculum, but which are covered within the geography and the science curriculum.

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Mr. Plohman: Many of them are not covered at all, Mr. Speaker.

Cost to Manitoba

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): Can the minister please tell this House: How much of taxpayers' money is the minister spending on a national test, when there is no national curriculum in this country, and which will have only the effect of demoralizing and frustrating students and teachers who have not even covered the material? What is she trying to prove with this test?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, it seems that member is not in support of this assessment process, is not in support of what Manitobans have been asking for, and that is the issue of accountability.

Mr. Speaker, we on this side of the House are in support of accountability, and therefore we worked very hard over the last three years to see that Manitoba's curriculum would be covered in the assessment. Yes, there has been an amount of money spent by the Council of Ministers of Education across Canada, but if the member knows, each province does pay a different amount of money to belong to the Council of Ministers of Education.

Antiracism Strategy

Employer Awareness Pamphlet

Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (St. Johns): Every week, Mr. Speaker, we hear of another incident of alleged racism. We do not want to have to keep coming to this House and raising this troublesome matter on an incident‑by‑incident basis.

What we would much rather have is a concerted plan of action to combat racism from this government‑‑something that was recommended two and a half years ago by the Manitoba Intercultural Council, which tabled a very substantive report, but instead of acting on this report, this government has allowed it to gather dust and cobwebs.