LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Friday, May 7, 1993

 

The House met at 10 a.m.

     

PRAYERS

 

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

 

READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS

 

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Mr. Maloway).  It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules (by leave). Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

Mr. Clerk (William Remnant):  The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

      WHEREAS Manitoba has the highest rate of child poverty in the country; and

      WHEREAS over 55,000 children depend upon the Children's Dental Program; and

      WHEREAS several studies have pointed out the cost savings of preventative and treatment health care programs such as the Children's Dental Program; and

      WHEREAS the Children's Dental Program has been in effect for 17 years and has been recognized as extremely cost‑effective and critical for many families in isolated communities; and

      WHEREAS the provincial government did not consult the users of the program or the providers before announcing plans to eliminate 44 of the 49 dentists, nurses and assistants providing this service; and

      WHEREAS preventative health care is an essential component of health care reform.

      WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) consider restoring the Children's Dental Program to the level it was prior to the 1993‑94 budget.

* * *

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Mr. Lathlin).  It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

Mr. Clerk:  The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

      WHEREAS fisheries are a vital resource industry in rural and northern Manitoba; and

      WHEREAS there are over 800 commercial fishermen netting some 12 million pounds of fish each year on Lake Winnipeg alone; and

      WHEREAS the high costs of supplies and shipping fish to market are putting ever more pressures on the commercial fishing industry in this province; and

      WHEREAS the provincial government reduced the Northern Fishermen's Freight Subsidy Assistance Program for commercial fishing by over $90,000 in 1991; and

      WHEREAS this subsidy is vital to the survival of the commercial fishing industry; and

      WHEREAS restoring the Freight Subsidy to the level of previous years would make fishing in northern Manitoba more competitive and help ensure the survival of the industry.

      WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns) to consider restoring funding of the Northern Fishermen's Freight Assistance Program to the level it was at in 1990‑91.

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Mr. Clif Evans).  It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

Mr. Clerk:  The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

      WHEREAS fisheries are a vital resource industry in rural and northern Manitoba; and

      WHEREAS there are over 800 commercial fishermen netting some 12 million pounds of fish each year on Lake Winnipeg alone; and

      WHEREAS the high costs of supplies and shipping fish to market are putting ever more pressures on the commercial fishing industry in this province; and

      WHEREAS the provincial government reduced the Northern Fishermen's Freight Subsidy Assistance Program for commercial fishing by over $90,000 in 1991; and

      WHEREAS this subsidy is vital to the survival of the commercial fishing industry; and

      WHEREAS restoring the Freight Subsidy to the level of previous years would make fishing in northern Manitoba more competitive and help ensure the survival of the industry.

      WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns) to consider restoring funding of the Northern Fishermen's Freight Assistance Program to the level it was at in 1990‑91.

* * *

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Mr. Leonard Evans).  It complies with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

Mr. Clerk:  The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

      WHEREAS Manitoba has the highest rate of child poverty in the country; and

      WHEREAS over 55,000 children depend upon the Children's Dental Program; and

      WHEREAS several studies have pointed out the cost savings of preventative and treatment health care programs such as the Children's Dental Program; and

      WHEREAS the Children's Dental Program has been in effect for 17 years and has been recognized as extremely cost‑effective and critical for many families in isolated communities; and

 

      WHEREAS the provincial government did not consult the users of the program or the providers before announcing plans to eliminate 44 of the 49 dentists, nurses and assistants providing this service; and

      WHEREAS preventative health care is an essential component of health care reform.

      WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) consider restoring the Children's Dental Program to the level it was prior to the 1993‑94 budget.

 

Introduction of Guests

 

Mr. Speaker:  Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery, where we have with us this morning from the Teulon Collegiate sixty‑six Grade 11 students under the direction of Mr. Ed Masters.  This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer).

      On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to welcome you here this morning.

* (1005)

 

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

 

Assiniboine River Diversion

Federal Environmental Review

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier (Mr. Filmon).

      Today, 30 environmental organizations are joining together to call on the federal government to have a federal environmental assessment of the Assiniboine River diversion project.  These groups include the Sierra Club, farmers unions, naturalist organizations, student organizations, university organizations, a wide range of environmental citizens who have a call on the federal government to have a review.  Every time we deal with this issue, we ask the Premier for a joint federal‑provincial review, and he says it is up to the federal government.

      We are now in receipt of a letter, which I will table in the House, from Jean Charest, the federal Environment minister, who now says that this decision to have the federal environmental assessment will go to the minister responsible for the decision‑making authority, the present Minister of Agriculture.

      Now, the present Minister of Agriculture is a Manitoba minister, but he also represents many of those same communities in his federal jurisdiction that are strong proponents of the Pembina Valley project and the diversion of this water.

      I would now like to call on the Premier (Mr. Filmon) to take a leadership position on behalf of all Manitobans, all Manitobans who are in a dispute on this issue, Mr. Speaker, and call on the federal government to join the provincial government so we can have a basin‑wide federal‑provincial review of the Assiniboine diversion project.

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Mr. Speaker, the member knows full well that the federal guidelines and the process under which they make a decision is one where they have a screening process to decide whether or not federal responsibility is being correctly dealt with.

      They make a decision based on the guidelines that have been in place for quite some time, and let me tell you, Mr. Speaker, they have to take the responsibility for whichever way they decide to deal with this program.

      They will be looking at the process that Manitoba has in place.  We believe our process is full and complete, but ultimately whether they decide to join with us or have a separate process, that will be their decision.  In fact, a separate process may well be their decision, but they have certainly not indicated to us that they intend to come in at this point.

 

Assiniboine River Diversion

Federal Environmental Review

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, it has been documented with the federal government with the Rafferty‑Alameda project that initially when Tom McMillan indicated they would have a federal environmental assessment, that was cancelled due to political pressure from Grant Devine from the Conservative Party, Premier of Saskatchewan.

      The same suspicions are here now in Manitoba where it goes to the federal Minister of Environment, and he moves it over to the federal Minister of Agriculture.  He represents some of the very same communities that are proposing this project, and some people in Manitoba are starting to feel that the fix is in.

      The way to solve this, Mr. Speaker, is for the Premier to take a leadership position and stop the fight between Brandon and Winkler and Portage and Altona and Winnipeg and some other communities, stop the disagreement that is going on now, provide leadership and stewardship on our water and call in a federal‑provincial environmental process today.

 * (1010)

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, I know the member opposite is not clear on the way the process works.  He should know that the federal government, in its screening process, places the onus on PFRA which is the arm that would be responsible for this kind of work.  They are, of course, under the federal Minister of Agriculture.  That is why the decision comes under his jurisdiction.

      Mr. Speaker, this matter will be handled by the book.  From our perspective, we will apply absolutely no political pressure to keep them out.  We encourage them to carry out their process and to ensure that they abide by it to the letter.  We have said that time and time and time again.  The entire process will be carried out as it should be in conjunction with our legislation and as it should be in conjunction with federal legislation, to the letter.

      We will not conduct ourselves, Mr. Speaker, like the New Democrats did‑‑because they wanted to force through the development of the Limestone Generating Station‑‑when they did not have any public hearing process, any complete environmental assessment or review process.  That will never happen under this administration.

Mr. Doer:  I find it rather curious for a former Minister of Environment to talk about the lack of environmental assessments in the '80s.  Perhaps if the Premier had passed an environment act when he was minister, there would have been the same kinds of assessments that are required under The Environment Act that the New Democratic Party passed in the '80s.

 

Assiniboine River Diversion

Federal Environmental Review

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, I have a document from the federal Department of Fisheries that talks about an analysis of the proposed Assiniboine diversion project. It talks about the total lack of information, something that the member for Portage (Mr. Pallister) has raised, the former member for Portage has raised, Brandon has raised, Selkirk has raised, Winnipeg has raised.

      It also goes on to say that there is a risk in terms of the water flow for this river which is not considered by the present environmental assessment of the project.  It goes on to talk about the impact on fish, on water flows:  The degradation of water quality could be an important factor in the future viability of this proposal.

      It goes on to say that the project will alter, significantly, the water flow in many river systems, and the Department of Fisheries believes that the assessment does not fully identify and assess the potential impacts on fisheries in that river system, and it does not provide the best information in terms of that material.

      I would like to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon), in light of the fact that Charlie Mayer is now responsible for proposing to have an independent federal assessment in his own backyard and that we have all these communities disagreeing about the process right now, will the Premier go further than just encourage the process of a federal‑provincial basin‑wide review?  Will he ask the federal government directly in writing to join and have a federal‑provincial review as our provincial legislation allows and as the people of Manitoba, I think, believe would be fair and reasonable under the circumstances?

 

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition likes to choose his quotes rather selectively.  Let me read from the letter that he just tabled. It says:  "Under the EARP Guidelines Order, the Minister with the decision‑making authority for a proposal must ensure that the environmental implications of the proposal have been assessed before any irrevocable decisions are made."

      The federal government will make that evaluation.  They will decide whether or not they want to come in on a federal EARP or whether they believe, as it says in the third paragraph following that, as to whether or not any potential adverse effects can be mitigated.

      They will make their decision.  They will be responsible for it, and pending that decision, we will make sure that our policy and our assessment is clear, open to the public and, without question, make a decision that is based on the facts.

 

Economic Growth

Employment Decline

 

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):  Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Finance.

      It seemed as though the Manitoba economy was finally slowly turning around, but today we have unemployment figures from Ottawa which show that Manitoba's unemployment increased by nearly a full point in April over March from 8.6 percent to 9.5 percent.

      Mr. Speaker, this is the largest increase in the unemployment rate of any of the Canadian provinces.  At the same time, our labour force has dropped from March, while the Canadian labour force has increased.

      Will this minister now acknowledge that Manitoba has not realized an economic recovery, but that we continue to have a serious economic recession in this province and that unemployment indeed is the No. 1 problem?

* (1015)

Hon. Clayton Mannes (Minister of Finance):  Mr. Speaker, I am delighted that the member for Brandon East was able to move up on the roster, his Friday morning roster.  Quite often he is left to the end by the Leader.

      I would like to indicate to the member that, as last month, he did not bring forward a question at the time when the numbers, of course, were very encouraging and very supportive of government policy.  Today, he, of course, likes to again bring the selective numbers forward.

      I would cite for him, and I know he knows this, that Manitoba's seasonally adjusted employment growth has averaged 489,000 for the first four months of 1993, up 1.4 percent from the same period last year.  This is the fifth best in Canada, nearly double the national rate of 0.8 percent.

      Now, in the subsequent question, I am sure the member will want to ask about manufacturing, and we will also share some decent news with respect to manufacturing growth, given, Mr. Speaker, the proper time frame.  Again, selective quoting of statistics, month over month, is for the opposition to do, but let us put it over some decent trend of time.

Mr. Leonard Evans:  Mr. Speaker, it seems that the answer is based on very selective statistics, as well.  The fact is the economy is stagnating.

      My question to the minister is:  Will the minister acknowledge that we are again losing jobs in this province?  We lost 8,000 jobs between April and the previous month of March. The fact is we are going backwards.

      So are you going to continue to ignore this matter, or are you going to take some action?

Mr. Manness:  Mr. Speaker, the action has been taken in the budget.  As the Premier (Mr. Filmon) indicated the other day, the Conference Board of Canada and other people recognize that through the budgetary moves and the taxation moves in this province, rather than attacking disposable income in the pockets of people, we have chosen deliberately to leave a greater portion of people's earnings for the area of disposable income.  Indeed, we are receiving acclaim for that across the land.

      So I say to the member, you cannot have it both ways.  I know in opposition, he likes to have it both ways, but the reality is you cannot, and we are leaving, through our taxation measures, a larger proportion of the public earning ability with Manitobans.

      Mr. Speaker, that is auguring well.  Our retail sales tax vis‑a‑vis other provinces, although not increasing at significant amounts, still in comparative terms, it is relatively well positioned.

Mr. Leonard Evans:  Mr. Speaker, this government‑‑we have fewer people working today than when they were elected.  There are fewer jobs today than when they were elected.

      Let us talk about the number of unemployed.  Why is the number of unemployed increasing in this province, up from 5,000 from March to April?  We are up to 51,000 seasonally adjusted. We are up to 55,000 on an actual basis.  We have more people unemployed than we should have.

      So, again, I ask this government to ask this minister:  Will he re‑examine his policies, take some action and give a little hope to those thousands upon thousands of Manitobans, including young people‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member has put his question.

Mr. Manness:  Mr. Speaker, I am disappointed, again, that the member resorts to selective statistics.

      Why can the member not recognize that Manitoba's recent job growth has been in full‑time employment?  I know that has been a concern with the members opposite.  Why does he not say that for the first four months in '93, there have been 13,000 more Manitobans employed than for the same four‑month period a year ago?  Why does the member not dwell on the positive?

      Mr. Speaker, the member refuses‑‑he is a doomer and gloomer, and he refuses to dwell on the positive.  He just wants to wallow away in negative news, and I say to him, he is doing a disservice indeed to all Manitobans and certainly to the youth in our galleries today.

* (1020)

 

James Philip Bridson

Investigation Update

 

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James):  Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

      A very serious tragic circumstance has gripped the community of Flin Flon.  It continues to in our province, and as we all are aware by this point, it has already claimed the lives of two and threatens another two.  There is an ongoing investigation which I know the Minister of Justice has been involved in and is aware of.

      I am wondering if the Minister of Justice today can tell members the progress of that investigation which has caused very serious concerns throughout that community and indeed the province.  I wonder if the minister has an update for members of the House at this time.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): The honourable member is certainly correct when he refers to the tragic nature of the circumstances in this situation in the Flin Flon area.  Our first thought, of course, is to the grief, the horror and the shock that the families involved and the community involved in this tragedy must surely be feeling, and I am sure the honourable member and all honourable members would join me in extending sympathy to all of those who are so deeply affected by this incident.

      In terms of an update, basically the investigation is ongoing.  A search is still being conducted, and I have nothing further than that at this point to report.

Mr. Edwards:  Of course, we look forward to further information and hopefully the successful conclusion of that investigation.

 

James Philip Bridson

Education Department Involvement

 

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James):  My further question is for the Minister of Education, Mr. Speaker.

      As I know the minister will be aware, and others in this House perhaps, this family, the Bridson family in Flin Flon, has a long history of relationship with government officials and, in particular, the Minister of Education.  I know that the minister did her best over a considerable period of time to deal with this situation.

      My question for the Minister of Education is:  Did she confer with the Minister of Family Services (Mr. Gilleshammer) in the course of this investigation and this dealing with this family to determine whether or not that department or other departments could have taken a more proactive approach?  I simply ask that because we have had other tragedies in this province, and oftentimes have had government involved for a long time, and then it results in a tragic incident.

      I wonder if the minister can give us an update as to what was done with this situation and, in particular, in relationship to the Department of Family Services.

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  I join with my colleague the Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae) and, I know, the members of this House in expressing sympathy to the people of Flin Flon and to the young people who are today trying to deal with the tragedy and the loss in their community and are trying very hard to understand the issues that are affecting them.

      We are looking at the matter, and I will be more prepared to discuss this when some of the issues in the Flin Flon area have been brought to a conclusion.

 

Government Departments

Service Co-ordination

 

Mr. Paul Edwards (St. James):  Well, Mr. Speaker, finally, for the Minister of Family Services then:  There has been a lot of discussion in these last few years about co‑ordinating services within government to deal with these types of situations.  There has yet to be a report issued, and there is a committee, I believe‑‑Family Services, Education, Justice and Health are involved in that.

      When can the people of this province expect a report on the co‑ordination of services?  We have a lengthy relationship with this family.  I am wondering if there is some indication as to when government might be able to pull these together in a more effective way which has been promised for some time now.

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Family Services):  Mr. Speaker, I think we have an investigation ongoing in this community.  I think it is not responsible to speculate and discuss this case at this particular time.

      I would say that on the issue of co‑ordination, our work on that is ongoing.

 

Flin Flon, Manitoba

Community Trauma Support

 

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon):  Mr. Speaker, I want to begin by saying I appreciate the comments of the Attorney General and the expressions of sympathy from both himself and the Minister of Education with regard to the incident in Flin Flon early Thursday morning.

      Members in this Chamber, I think, appreciate the difficult circumstances that exist in Flin Flon and the surrounding communities as a result of economic circumstances and economic difficulties, as well as the pressure that this brings to bear on families.  Mr. Speaker, this tragedy is just that, a tragedy, and no one may ever know the exact determinants, the root causes of this tragedy.

      Mr. Speaker, we have to look forward, and it is not the time to begin making recriminations with respect to this incident. However, we do know that the community of Flin Flon is in crisis.  The mayor and other community leaders have been asking for assistance in dealing with the next 12 to 18 months.

      Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Family Services (Mr. Gilleshammer).  Will the minister now agree to co‑ordinate the activities within his department, within the Mental Health Division of the Minister of Health's (Mr. Orchard) department, perhaps bring other resources to bear, to ensure that existing personnel in the school division in Flin Flon, in the community, are prepared to deal with what is going to be a traumatic aftermath to this event, but also to deal with the next 18 months of trauma for the community as it adjusts to the new reality of fewer jobs and difficult circumstances?

* (1025)

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, if I might assist my honourable friend with the legitimate concerns he expresses on behalf of the community of Flin Flon facing such an obvious tragic set of circumstances, I might indicate that within my ministry, we are preparing and making efforts to assist the community through my Mental Health Division.

      Unfortunately, this is not the first time my ministry has been involved in such a community event, and we will attempt to provide the kind of support to the community, to the school system in Flin Flon, so that the difficulties faced by that community will not be faced alone, that we will provide them with support from within the Mental Health Division.

 

Flin Flon, Manitoba

Community Trauma Support

 

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon):  Mr. Speaker, my subsequent question is to the Minister of Education.

      I know‑‑and I want to thank the minister's staff for already responding to the incident in Flin Flon and allocating a staff person to the community.  My question would be, however:  Will the minister also consider the trauma that has been inflicted on the elementary school and the junior high school which is adjacent to this family housing complex, as well as the students who are affected in the collegiate, who knew the victims?

      Mr. Speaker, will the minister be prepared to send a team of counsellors and child psychologists, early childhood specialists, to Flin Flon to deal with what will be several months of trauma and adjustment for the students, the staff and the families in the community of Flin Flon?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, I have spoken with the principals of both schools this morning and have had an opportunity to talk with them about the needs of some of the young people in the school, and also the staff.  We have already sent, as the member has said, a member of our Child Care Branch into Flin Flon, who is currently now working with both schools.

      I did speak with the principals who also spoke about the community support team which they are currently working with.  We will most certainly have a look at the needs of the young people in those schools in the coming months.

 

Flin Flon, Manitoba

Family Dispute Services

 

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon):  My final question is to the Minister of Family Services with respect to the issue of maintaining some services to the families and the community with respect to abuse and potential abuse, sexual abuse, other abuse that appears to be a continuing problem in the region.

      Will the Minister of Family Services be allocating additional support through the department's Family Dispute Services to the community of Flin Flon, as well?

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Family Services):  My senior staff have been in touch with the regional office there and will be lending any support that we can to assist in the situation along with staff from the Mental Health Division and the Department of Education.

* (1030)

 

Ostomy Program

User Fees

 

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan):  Mr. Speaker, last year in a letter the Minister of Health sent to the Ostomy Association, he stated, and I quote:  This program is unique in Canada and is justifiably envied outside and beyond the borders of Manitoba.

      Not any more, Mr. Speaker, not since this government introduced user fees on the ostomy program.

      Will this minister reconsider his decision to charge user fees on the ostomy and the other supply program?‑‑because these people have no choice in their illness, and they have no choice but to have these supplies.

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, the decision, as I have explained earlier to my honourable friend, was to have those Manitobans who have been availing themselves of ostomy supplies internally to now contribute half the cost of their supplies up to a maximum of $300 per year.

      In arriving at that decision, as I have explained earlier to my honourable friend, it makes us quite consistent and probably at least as supportive as other provinces with which we made comparisons.  I think we are favourably positioned.  Although it is requiring a contribution from these individuals, it still positions us as having one of the more generous programs in this area of support in western Canada and possibly all of the nation.

Mr. Chomiak:  My supplementary to the minister:  Mr. Speaker, we have user fees on northern transportation.  We have user fees on supplies.  We have user fees.  Even the association wrote back to the minister indicating that these are user fees.

      Will the minister not reconsider his tax on the sick?  Will he not reconsider that these people have no choice?  The money could easily come from Connie Curran's $3.9 million.

Mr. Orchard:  Mr. Speaker, from the luxury of opposition, New Democrats decry decisions that governments make when they are not New Democratic governments.  However, from the reality of government, New Democrats in Saskatchewan and New Democrats in Ontario who are faced with the challenges of governing are making decisions consistent with this.  They are charging for services in the same areas that we are charging in.

      Now my honourable friend is wanting, of course, to make out that New Democrats in opposition in Manitoba would be different, yet I have never heard my honourable friend commit that he would reinstate any of these programs beforehand.  All he is doing is holding out the promise that this is wrong and will mislead the people into believing they would do better should they be government.

      The example of that, Sir, is evident in Saskatchewan and Ontario, and I reject the narrow politics with which this foolish man is making a mockery of democracy.

Mr. Chomiak:  Mr. Speaker, will the minister commit to reinstate this program if we commit that we will fire Connie Curran and her $3.9‑million contract to pay for the minister's tax on the sick?

Mr. Orchard:  Well, again, Mr. Speaker, when my honourable friend has the luxury from opposition of finding fault with every single decision of this government, would my honourable friend care to consider at some point in time as the new critic for Health, setting out the policies of the New Democrats should they ever, God forbid, govern this province, would my honourable friend, in one simple sentence at one simple time in the next six months, care to tell us what he is in favour of instead of always what he is against?‑‑because what he is against in this province, Sir, New Democrats in Saskatchewan, British Columbia and Ontario are doing as government policy and I reject his hypocrisy.

 

Emergency Room Physicians

Patient Safety

 

Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The Maples):  Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

      We are into the 10th day of the strike by EMOs, Mr. Speaker, and patients are very concerned and we are all very concerned that the quality of health care may have been compromised over the past 10 days.

      I will ask the minister:  Can the Minister of Health tell us if there has been a major disaster for the last 10 days?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, no.  As I have indicated to my honourable friend, that despite the constraints of emergency services not being available for a three‑day period of time at Grace while they were moving to the newly opened emergency area and that Seven Oaks had not provided services, the 24‑hour service available at Misericordia Hospital plus the two teaching hospitals have been coping with the circumstance.  I have not been advised as of nine this morning of any tragedies, as my honourable friend is asking about.

      The system, clearly, is coping but one has to understand, as I have said before, that in circumstances where you have a strike and withdrawal of services, those remaining who are providing services naturally are under increased demand and level of service requirement, and some of the less urgent individuals presenting at emergencies may have to wait a longer period of time.

      That is less than optimal.  That is why we hoped to have this circumstance resolved.  That is why we have called in a mediator to try and bring a resolution.

 

Negotiations

 

Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The Maples):  Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Health give us an update about the negotiations between the EMOs and the government of Manitoba?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  I think probably as we speak, the hospitals and the MMA are using the skills of Mr. Wally Fox‑Decent to try to resolve the issue.  I understand that they are still in the process of discussion, and I have no progress reports.  They have decided, as part of the process, that they would not engage in any statements, and I think that would be an appropriate thing for me to likewise comply with.

 

Patient Safety

 

Mr. Gulzar Cheema (The Maples):  Mr. Speaker, we are approaching another weekend.  Can the Minister of Health tell the people of Manitoba that there will not be any major difficulties and what kinds of plans they have put in place to ensure that quality care is being provided?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, I am hoping that the planning and the contingencies that are being put in place for the weekend may well not be required.  In other words, I am hopeful that we can achieve a resolution even today.

      In the event that may not be achievable, Sir, I indicated in an earlier answer that Grace Hospital had closed their emergency for three days at the first of the week, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, to move to their new facility.  To assist in a weekend of potential continuation of the strike, Grace Hospital will be having their emergency department open from 8 p.m. to 8 a.m., Friday, Saturday and Sunday, in an attempt to take evening pressure.  The ambulance services, in co‑ordination between the hospitals, will advise as to any other contingency plan changes from the other community hospitals.

 

Repap Manitoba Inc.

Negotiations

 

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas):  Mr. Speaker, my question will be directed to the First Minister.

      Mr. Speaker, four years ago, the Premier and his government announced a takeover of Manfor, promising some 500 new jobs for The Pas and a billion dollars of new investment.  Neither of those promises have yet to materialize.

      A year ago, the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) announced that the original development plan was going to have to be restructured, and a deadline of summer and then September of 1992 was then struck.  That deadline passed, as did others, Mr. Speaker.

      Last October, the Minister of Finance announced again that negotiations were not proceeding on schedule, and he was getting frustrated but he was now going to get very aggressive on these negotiations.  Since then we have heard less on those negotiations.

      Mr. Speaker, could I ask the First Minister to again advise the House today as to the status of those negotiations?

* (1040)

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, the member for The Pas, who has never really taken a position as to whether or not he wants to have the ownership of that pulp and paper mill and lumber operation under the hands of Repap‑‑I might say that his predecessor did support that, the former New Democratic member for The Pas.

      Mr. Speaker, I might say that the member opposite, I know, may take a very narrow perspective on this, but members on this side of the House have to be able to watch what is happening in the pulp and paper industry throughout North America to find that every company that is in pulp and paper throughout North America is in difficulty.  They are losing billions of dollars.

      In fact, they are closing down pulp and paper operations right across Canada.  Many of them have been closed down in Ontario.  Now, if the member opposite is suggesting that we move precipitously and close down that operation and put hundreds of people out of work, I disagree with him, Mr. Speaker.  I disagree with him.

      If he is suggesting alternatively that the government of Manitoba take over ownership again and run it as they did in the last recession, when it cost as much as $30 million a year to the taxpayer, I disagree with that, Mr. Speaker.

      If he wants to have the jobs preserved for The Pas‑‑

 

Point of Order

 

Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader):  Mr. Speaker, Beauchesne is very clear that answers to questions should relate to the matter raised and be brief.  All I am hearing from the Premier is:  if the member is saying this, if the member is saying that.

      The member is asking a very straightforward question.  What is the status of the negotiations?  I would ask you to bring the Premier to order.

* * *

Mr. Speaker:  The honourable First Minister, to finish his response.

Mr. Filmon:  If it had been a straightforward question, it would not have required three minutes of preamble.

      The fact of the matter is if he is suggesting that we take it back and own it and operate it as the New Democrats did, it cost the taxpayer as much as $30 million a year to run it when the New Democrats were owning and operating that.  We do not‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

 

Redevelopment

 

Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas):  Mr. Speaker, I know the Premier is a little bit sensitive on the issue of Repap because it represents a lot of broken promises‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  I will remind the honourable member this is not a time for debate.  The honourable member for The Pas, with his question, please.

Mr. Lathlin:  Mr. Speaker, my last question to the First Minister is:  The mill manager, Paul Richards, it is his last day in The Pas today.  He is going to New Brunswick.

      How much longer will the residents of The Pas and the surrounding areas have to wait before they start seeing some results of this redevelopment plan and that stability he instilled in the minds of those people who are living in The Pas?  How much longer do we have to wait?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, I am not at all sensitive about this issue.  I just want to ensure that the member for The Pas has a lesson in what is going on in the pulp and paper industry in Canada, because he obviously has no idea of what is going on in pulp and paper in Canada.

      I think it would help him in his discussions with his constituents if he had a little understanding of what is going on in the pulp and paper industry in Canada.

      I can assure him that this government will continue to work with Repap to ensure that not only do we have the things there that we do have, but that Repap has invested in the total cleanup of the environmental pollution and damage that was done under the New Democrats.  That has been cleaned up.  Millions have been invested in that.

      Not only have they improved the operations and made them safer, and made them, in fact, more productive, Mr. Speaker, but we know that in the future, if we continue to have negotiation with them, with the turnaround of the pulp and paper prices in North America, that indeed they will make the further investment that will improve that even further for the constituents of The Pas.

 

Intertribal Christian Communications

PST Collection

 

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood):  Mr. Speaker, I have a question to the Premier.

      I would like to table a letter from a Mr. Tim Nielsen, who is the general director of a nonprofit organization called Intertribal Christian Communications at 188 Henderson Highway.

      Now, this nonprofit mails 25,000 magazines a month to subscribers, and they received circular 9353 from the Taxation department on April 28, giving them only three days notice of the 7 percent PST that had to be collected on their subscriptions. Also, this amounts to a $10,000 tax increase‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member, with his question.  Time is extremely short.

Mr. Maloway:  In addition to that, they had to pay PST‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Question, please.

Mr. Maloway:  Could the minister tell the House why circular 9353 was not even printed until April 19 and was not received by this business until April 28, three days before?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, I will be happy to take that as notice on behalf of the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness).

Mr. Maloway:  Mr. Speaker, since most periodicals need at least a month's notice about tax changes in order to raise their rates, why did the minister make the tax effective May 1?  Why did he force them to absorb the 7 percent for the first month?

Mr. Filmon:  Mr. Speaker, I will take that as notice, as well, on behalf of the Minister of Finance.

Mr. Maloway:  Mr. Speaker, my final supplementary is that on May 1, leases of aircraft are now exempt, while baby bottles‑‑