LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Tuesday, May 11, 1993

 

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

 

PRAYERS

 

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

 

PRESENTING PETITIONS

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Brad Brown, David Jacobsen, Ruby Reedman and others urging the government of Manitoba to consider keeping the Misericordia Hospital open as an acute care facility.

* * *

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley):  Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Don Sullivan, Reg Cumming, Harry Mesman and others requesting the Manitoba Minister of Environment (Mr. Cummings) ask for a cumulative basin‑wide federal environmental review of the Assiniboine River diversion proposal this fall.

* * *

Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin):  Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Teresa Reynolds, Sheryl Bernstrom, Jill Terrick and others requesting the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) consider restoring the Children's Dental Program to the level it was prior to the 1993‑94 budget.

* * *

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Ben Kujanpaa, Jean Kujanpaa, Ellen Wood and others requesting the Manitoba Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Findlay) to consider conducting a plebiscite of Manitoba farmers as soon as possible on the issue of removing barley from the jurisdiction of the Canadian Wheat Board.

 

READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS

 

Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Ms. Friesen).  It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

Mr. Clerk (William Remnant):  The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

             WHEREAS Manitoba has the highest rate of child poverty in the country; and

             WHEREAS over 1,000 young adults are currently attempting to get off welfare and upgrade their education through the Student Social Allowances Program; and

             WHEREAS Winnipeg already has the highest number of people on welfare in decades; and

             WHEREAS the provincial government has already changed social assistance rules resulting in increased welfare costs for the City of Winnipeg; and

             WHEREAS the provincial government is now proposing to eliminate the Student Social Allowances Program; and

             WHEREAS eliminating the Student Social Allowances Program will result in more than a thousand young people being forced onto city welfare with no means of getting further full‑time education, resulting in more long‑term costs for city taxpayers.

             WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Minister of Family Services (Mr. Gilleshammer) to consider restoring funding of the Student Social Allowances Program.

* * *

             Mr. Speaker:  I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Ms. Wowchuk).  It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules.  Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? [agreed]

             Mr. Clerk:  The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

             WHEREAS the Canadian Wheat Board has played a vital role in the orderly marketing of Canadian wheat, barley and other grain products since its inception in 1935; and

             WHEREAS the federal Minister of Agriculture is considering removing barley from the jurisdiction of the Wheat Board; and

             WHEREAS this is another step towards dismantling the board; and

             WHEREAS, as in the case with the removal of oats from the Wheat Board in 1989, there has been no consultation with the board of directors of the Wheat Board, with the 11‑member advisory committee to the board or the producers themselves; and

             WHEREAS the federal minister has said that there will be no plebiscite of farmers before the announcement is made.

             WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Manitoba Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Findlay) to consider conducting a plebiscite of Manitoba farmers on this issue as soon as possible.

 * (1335)

 

PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES

 

Mrs. Louise Dacquay (Chairperson of Committees):  Mr. Speaker, the Committee of Supply has adopted certain resolutions, directs me to report the same and asks leave to sit again.

             I move, seconded by the honourable member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson), that the report of the committee be received.

 Motion agreed to.

 

Introduction of Guests

 

Mr. Speaker:  Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery where we have with us this afternoon 25 visitors.  There are 16 students from the Towa Junior High School of Towa, Japan.  These students are under the direction of Mr. Kanichi Onodera, Mr. Tatsuo Saito, Mr. John Vandewater and Mrs. Audrey Vandewater.

             On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to welcome you here this afternoon.

 

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

 

No-Fault Auto Insurance

Advertising Campaign

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  My question is to the Premier.

             Mr. Speaker, Manitobans have received material across the province dealing with no‑fault insurance which is co‑sponsored by the Manitoba government with the minister responsible for the Public Insurance Corporation (Mr. Cummings) and the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation itself.  Estimates of the cost of this campaign ranged, yesterday, at $200,000.  The minister today said it was close to $100,000 in comments he has made on this program.

             Mr. Speaker, last week when we asked even the most minimal of questions in the House, the minister told us to wait and he would produce information.  The bill was not even tabled in this House.  So we found it very strange, if not antiparliamentary, that the government would be proceeding to advertise on a program that is not even introduced in legislation in this Chamber for purposes of debate and passage by this House.

             Does the Premier feel it is appropriate that a Crown corporation will spend close to $100,000 advertising a program that requires legislation in this House which has not even been introduced in this Chamber?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):   Mr. Speaker, I find it very, very difficult to accept the position of the member for Concordia (Mr. Doer) who, when he was part of a government, spent millions of dollars of public money on advertising on anything and everything going, all sorts of apple‑polishing ads to try and improve the image of a failed government.  Indeed, they used Crown corporations like MPIC to try and fund their public relations gimmicks.

             This is not public relations.  This is a matter of having the public understand what is the largest change that has taken place in over 20 years in the operations of the Public Insurance Corporation, an issue that Manitobans‑‑and particularly Manitoba motorists‑‑are vitally interested in, who want to know the various principles that will be involved in the no‑fault system.

             The corporation and the minister, obviously, felt that it was important to spend, as I heard him say, something under $100,000 to ensure that the public understood the principles of what is going to be a sea change in the way in which they will be covered for their automobile insurance.

             Surely, he cannot take issue with having the public well informed about an issue of this magnitude that will affect every motorist in Manitoba, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Doer:  The Premier did not answer the question.  I asked the Premier whether it was appropriate to advertise prior to the bill even being tabled in this House.

             I would quote, Mr. Speaker, from Speaker Fraser when the same contemptuous Conservatives in Ottawa had ads on the GST all across this country before it was passed.  Speaker Fraser said that this is so‑called executive democracy.  This is not appropriate.  This is not an administrative democracy.  He goes on to say that it is ill‑conceived and does a great disservice to the great traditions of parliamentary democracy, that this ad is objectionable and should never be repeated.

             This is what Speaker Fraser says about GST advertising before the GST bill was passed.

             Does the Premier now believe that it is appropriate for him to run this government and the spending of his Crown corporations in an executive management function and negate the parliamentary traditions that are so important to the Chamber and the people of Manitoba?  What is wrong with having a bill passed by a democratically elected Chamber first before the government proceeds with its public relations campaign?

* (1340)

Mr. Filmon:   Mr. Speaker, I remember the government of Howard Pawley of which that member was a minister running full‑page ads about the constitutional amendment to make the French language an official language of this province, to constitutionalize it well before it was ever passed.  In fact, the member knows it was never passed.  They ran full‑page ads advertising their position on this with a picture of Howard A. Pawley, it said.

             Mr. Speaker, I remember that happening throughout this province and he has the audacity‑‑and that was hundreds of thousands of dollars of pure government propaganda to try and persuade the public, who were 85 percent opposed to that, to approve that.

             This is a situation in which there will be a major, major change in the way in which every motorist in this province will have their coverage for automobiles, and I believe that it is incumbent on the government to make sure the public understands what that change will do to affect them.

Mr. Doer:  Mr. Speaker, this is the second example where this Premier and his government runs roughshod over the traditions of parliamentary democracy in this Chamber.

             On the one hand, they instruct the police not to lay charges on Sunday shopping even though there is no bill passed in this Chamber, and on the other hand, they have $100,000 worth of advertising going on in this House after Speaker Fraser made a ruling in Ottawa in 1989 dealing with the inappropriateness of this ad.

             I would ask this Premier:  Is he going to continue to proceed on the basis of executive management, or are we going to go back to the traditions of parliamentary democracy which all members of this House should participate in, unlike the dictatorship that is going on from the Premier opposite?

Mr. Filmon:   Mr. Speaker, the member opposite had nothing but contempt for those so‑called traditions of parliamentary democracy when he was in government and participated in and defended the expenditure of millions of dollars on advertising, including hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to promote a wrong‑headed constitutional amendment.

             I say to him that what he is doing is absolutely hypocritical, and I think the issue deserves the lack of attention it is getting.

 

Gasoline Stations

Log Book Inspections

 

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood):  Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier.

             Yesterday, approximately 200 homes and two schools in the Elmwood constituency were evacuated for several hours after a gas leak into the sewer at the Domo Gas bar at 955 Henderson Highway occurred.

             Mr. Speaker, under the law of Manitoba, log books are to be kept on a regular basis with the readings taken on a daily basis to show if there is any loss of gasoline.  Interestingly enough, this gas leak was found not by the Domo station people themselves, but by a resident of the constituency in his or her basement.

             My question to the minister is:  How often are the station log books inspected by his department?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):   Mr. Speaker, recognizing that this falls within the responsibility of the Minister of Environment (Mr. Cummings) who is at a meeting with his environmental minister counterpart in Saskatchewan today, I will attempt to give as much information as I can on this situation.

             I can confirm, Mr. Speaker, that there has been regular examination of those log books as recently as even within the last 10 days.  The department did not detect any leakage by virtue of the measurements in the log book, and that has occurred even within the last 10 days.

             Whether or not the evidence leads directly to the conclusion that the member has reached or has jumped to, Mr. Speaker, the Environment department, at the moment, cannot substantiate that conclusion.

* (1345)

 

Gasoline Leaks

Environment Department Directive

 

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood):  Mr. Speaker, perhaps the First Minister should check with the Environment people in the field who will tell you, if you want to check, that there were shortages of gasoline noted in the log books as early as the week before the 1st of May.  So that would be at least 20 days now that there have been substantial shortages‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Question, please.

Mr. Maloway:  My question to the First Minister is:  Would he endeavour to find out whether the Minister of Environment (Mr. Cummings) issued a directive to all stations after the last major spill last month?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):   I will take that question as notice and have it responded to when the minister returns.

 

Contaminated Sites

Domo Station‑Henderson Highway

 

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood):  My final supplementary to the same minister is this.  Last month, I asked the minister to release the list of 375 contaminated sites his department has files on.

             Can the minister confirm that the Domo site at 955 Henderson Highway was already on that list of contaminated sites?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):   No, Mr. Speaker, I cannot confirm that.  I will take that question as notice on behalf of the minister.

 

No-Fault Auto Insurance

Income Replacement‑Seniors

 

Mr. Reg Alcock (Osborne):  Mr. Speaker, I am pleased that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) raised the problem which the government has created by beginning the debate about no‑fault insurance without the substantive information being before the House.

             I would like to ask the Premier a very simple question since that information is not now available to us.  The minister has stated that the plan is based on the Quebec model, and in Quebec, we note that seniors will receive no income replacement after age 67.

             We would like to ask the Premier:  Is that the intention of their model?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):   Mr. Speaker, I will take that question as notice on behalf of the minister responsible.

 

Pension Benefits

 

Mr. Reg Alcock (Osborne):  It is passing strange that the Premier would have supported a policy without knowing the answer to a question‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Question, please.

Mr. Alcock:  Mr. Speaker, let us ask him another one.

 

Point of Order

 

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):   Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, I did not say I did not know the answer to that question.  I said I would take it as notice on behalf of the minister responsible for MPIC (Mr. Cummings).

Mr. Speaker:  The honourable First Minister does not have a point of order.  It is a dispute over the facts.

* * *

Mr. Alcock:  Mr. Speaker, if the Premier will check, he will note that I asked him the question, not the minister, so perhaps he will now be able to answer a second question.

             To the Premier:  Will pension benefits be deducted from payments on the no‑fault insurance plan?

Mr. Filmon:   Mr. Speaker, I will take that question as notice on behalf of the minister responsible for MPIC (Mr. Cummings).

 

Introduction

 

Mr. Reg Alcock (Osborne):  You see, Mr. Speaker, the problem we have.  The government is sending out very limited information extolling the virtues of this plan and refusing to answer any questions about it here in the House.

             So I have to ask the Premier a very simple question.  Why are you afraid to reveal the details of the plan?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):   Mr. Speaker, despite the fact that this question may well be out of order because it was not presented to the Chair, I will take that as notice on behalf of the minister responsible for MPIC (Mr. Cummings).

 

Government Departments

Service Co-ordination

 

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon):  Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier.

             Almost two years ago, the Pedlar report talked about the need for working together to deal with domestic violence.  In that report, Ms. Pedlar noted that there is a tremendous need to provide commitment, consistency and communication within and between government departments and agencies in order to prevent family violence from occurring.

             Subsequent to that time and prior to that time, the Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae) had been promising this Legislature and the people of Manitoba that they would be putting together a means of providing that co‑ordination.

             My question to the First Minister is:  Will he now undertake and commit the government to implement a public inquiry of the incidents in Flin Flon so that we can understand why once again the government of Manitoba and its agencies and institutions have failed families in this province?

* (1350)

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):   Mr. Speaker, I want to be able to provide a reasonable response to the member for Flin Flon.  I know that all members in this House do not wish to have had happen what happened in Flin Flon.  I also know that all members in this House do not want to interfere with court actions that will ensue from the apparent murders that took place in Flin Flon.

             I think the member opposite understands that in the case of a court action, the psychological and behavioural conditions of the accused may well be a question in point, that files and information available from a variety of government departments and individuals who may have been in contact with the family and the individual‑‑all of that may well be material to the legal action that is ensuing.

             So I just say to the member opposite that I would hope that we would just put aside the opportunity for political gain and let the matter rest until the justice system deals with it.  Then we will examine thoroughly, as the Minister of Justice (Mr. McCrae) has said, all of the processes that have taken place.

             I can tell him that in response to the recommendations that followed the Reid tragedy, certain things were put in place which were and have been in place with respect to interdepartmental co‑ordination and communication on this particular issue, but I believe that by going at the questions the way, apparently, the member wants to do, we are not going to necessarily do the right thing vis‑a‑vis the legal actions that will ensue.

 

James Philip Bridson Case

Public Inquiry

 

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon):  Mr. Speaker, to say the least, I resent the implication that somehow this is a political issue.

             Mr. Speaker, the people of Flin Flon, including the mayor, including the crisis centre board, including service agencies and departments of this government, have identified the lack of a crisis centre as an implicating factor.

             My question is:  Will the First Minister, given that he has the authority under The Evidence Act, appoint a commission to study the role of the government itself and its agencies in dealing with events leading up to this tragedy?

             It does not have to be a criminal investigation or touch on the criminal investigation.  My question is to the minister: Given that these kinds of inquiries have been done before, will he now launch a public inquiry into the role of government and its agencies‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member has put his question.

* (1355)

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):   Mr. Speaker, the member opposite says he resents being accused of trying to make political hay on this case and then proceeds to do exactly that.

             Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, he has made the suggestion, as has the wife of his member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton), made the suggestion that there is a direct connection with the‑‑

 

Point of Order

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  I believe, Mr. Speaker, that individuals in their various roles and spokespersons across the province are treated as individuals, not as spouses of somebody else.

             I would ask the Premier to be sensitive to that in this Chamber.

Mr. Speaker:  The honourable member does not have a point of order.  It is a dispute over the facts.

* * *

Mr. Filmon:   Mr. Speaker, I am very sensitive to it, because I have learned from my colleagues opposite and their cheap shots over the years.

             Mr. Speaker, the member opposite has made a suggestion about the role of a crisis centre.  The principal resource that was represented by the crisis centre that was no longer available was the ability to have members of the family taken out of their home and housed in the shelter.

             Mr. Speaker, there continues to be in Flin Flon the Northern Women's Resource Centre that provides both counselling and education, and there continues to be a 24‑hour crisis line, and there is no evidence that either of those was attempted to be accessed.  So I think that the member is drawing a long bow on this one, but we will be happy to have that investigated at an appropriate time.

Mr. Storie:  Mr. Speaker, as the crisis centre board tried to explain to this government, the sick situation in Flin Flon, the economic circumstances and the pressure the community is under, require a quicker response.  We cannot wait for six months or a year or two years for the government to make these decisions, to determine whether in fact this‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Question, please.

Mr. Storie:  Mr. Speaker, the First Minister has the power under The Evidence Act to begin an inquiry.

             My question is:  Will the minister now admit that the political decision to cut funding to the crisis centre was wrong?  Will he now agree to reinstate funding and to assess the role of the government agencies‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member has put his question.

Mr. Filmon:   Mr. Speaker, I repeat, there continues to be in Flin Flon the Northern Women's Resource Centre with funding of $123,800 from the Province of Manitoba.

             That centre provides both counselling and education for women with an emphasis on family violence as well as other issues to do with that matter.  There also continues to be available a 24‑hour crisis line.  There is no evidence to suggest that either of those was attempted to be accessed in the case.

 

ACCESS Programs

Future Status

 

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley):  Mr. Speaker, when the ACCESS programs were created, they were meant to be a long‑term strategy to support programs for people in Manitoba who have experienced barriers in their entry and in their success in post‑secondary education.

             As we all know, these have been extremely successful programs.  They are internationally renowned.  They have produced many teachers, doctors, dentists and social workers.

             Last year, Metis nonstatus students had their allowances reduced by $3,000.  This year, the minister has cut a further 16 percent from ACCESS programs.

             I would like to ask the Minister of Education:  Will she tell the House today, what is her long‑term plan for those ACCESS programs?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, as I have explained to the member before, the ACCESS programs have received some funding from the federal government and also our provincial funding.  This province has maintained its commitment to ACCESS programs while the federal funding has changed.  The federal funding now flows directly to bands.

             Last year, as the member may remember, there were then some students currently in their program who were left unfunded.  It was this government that came forward with the supplementary funding to assist those students to make sure that they could continue their program.  I think that action speaks for itself.

Ms. Friesen:  And so does the Estimates page with the $1.2 million reduction.

 

Winnipeg Education Centre

 

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley):  Will the minister confirm that her departmental delays and apparent absence of long‑term policy have meant that the Winnipeg Education Centre has been unable to admit its regular first take intake this year, something which should have happened on May 3 and which is extremely disruptive for prospective students and their families?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, we have been making every effort to get information out to all of the institutions regarding student financial assistance regarding ACCESS programming.  My department has now been in touch with all of the institutions.

Ms. Friesen:  Mr. Speaker, that still leaves 20 families in limbo.

 

Enrollment Statistics

 

Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley):  Will the minister tell us how many fewer funded students will be in ACCESS programs this year?

             Would she care to reflect upon her comments of October 16, 1992, quote, that our commitment to ACCESS programs underlines the province's commitments to educational opportunities?

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, again, we are in the process of intake in the ACCESS programs.

             As I explained to the member before, when we look at the funding, we know that approximately 40 percent of the funding goes for living allowance and rent subsidies, and we are aware that approximately 60 percent of it goes for administrative costs.

             We have been meeting with the institutions involved to look at how their administrative costs may be reduced, so the greatest amount of money will then be there as a benefit to students.

* (1400)

 

Government Departments

Protocols‑Information Sharing

 

Mrs. Sharon Carstairs (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier.

             Mr. Speaker, in reviewing the Reid report, one of the comments that was made by the individual who conducted The Fatality Inquiries Act on this case was that, and let me quote: However, Mrs. Reid, in her own fashion, appears to have been reaching out for help with no positive results.

             We have a similar situation with respect to the case in Flin Flon.

             Will the Premier table today the protocol that had been put into place by his government to ensure that information, sensitive information, travels from one department to the next department so, in fact, it can be acted upon in unity together?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):   Mr. Speaker, I might say that in drawing the parallel to the Reid case, there were, throughout that period of time, crisis shelters in Winnipeg within easy access, and that was not an answer for the Reid case.

             I am not sure if she is drawing the parallel, but it obviously is not a parallel whatsoever.

Mrs. Carstairs:  Mr. Speaker, I can only assume the Premier simply did not understand my question.

             My question is, very clearly:  What protocols are in place by this government to ensure that sensitive information about families which is learned by the Department of Education is shared with the Department of Child and Family Services, is shared with the Department of Justice, if applicable, and vice versa?  There must be protocols in place between government departments.  Will he table those protocols?

Mr. Filmon:   Mr. Speaker, I will attempt to get a fuller response to that, but I do know that there are limitations to which we can go in terms of having so‑called sensitive personal information about people and their behavioural or psychological problems.  It is not the sort of thing that would necessarily be freely transmitted among departments and people within government.

             In fact, I would be very concerned if it was so easy to obtain that kind of information that it just got passed along, file to file, people to people, and was in everybody's files in government.  I would have to know a great deal more about the kind of thing she is talking about.

             I do know that since the report on the Reid inquiry, a critical‑incident team approach was established by government which is an interdepartmental action between the Departments of Health and Family Services instituted over a year ago and which prepared for situations such as the Bridson situation in reacting to a crisis, a tragedy, of this nature and that, in fact, it has of course been engaged in this particular circumstance.

Mrs. Carstairs:  Well, Mr. Speaker, the Reid report states very clearly, and let me quote again from that report:  That a proper exchange of information between agencies and police, assisted by legislation, if necessary, would have shown where it was heading.

             We know that the Department of Education had information given to them in September of 1991 that an individual was suicidal.

             Can the Premier tell us what the protocol was for the Department of Education to then share that information with the Department of Health, so a mental health worker could be called in to evaluate this particular situation?

Mr. Filmon:   Mr. Speaker, I know the member is familiar with the circumstance because I have a copy of her correspondence on file.  I have a copy of correspondence with members from the New Democratic Party.  I also have seen copies of correspondence in the files with respect to other communication that went on amongst the school board, the family, the Department of Education, psychologists and so on.

             Mr. Speaker, there is a great deal more to the circumstance as to the role of other people, including the family in this circumstance, and what was offered and what was accepted and what was not accepted.  The member knows because she was, in fact, urging a certain resolution at the time of the correspondence.

             I just say that I do not think this is the place to be airing those private pieces of correspondence between the family and‑‑[interjection] I answered the question of protocols before, and I said that I would look into it and report back, Mr. Speaker.

             But if we are now trying to find out who said what and did what and who may have been offered certain supports and services, and what their response might have been, I do not think that it is appropriate for us to get into this.  That is why we will have to have, at an appropriate time, a full and complete review of this matter.

 

Children's Dental Health Program

Funding Reduction Justification

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  Mr. Speaker, while on many different occasions this government has said they are committed to rural Manitoba, they are committed to preventative health and to the children of our province, we have also seen how hollow this rhetoric is, and in particular, it was most clear in the Minister of Health's cut to the Children's Dental Health Program.

             I am going to table a letter from the Dental Auxiliaries Association of Manitoba, which says, and I quote:  The Children's Dental Health Program currently provides effective dental care which increases and improves the general health of our population.

             My question to the Minister of Health is:  How can he justify his shortsighted move which will place the future of the dental health of our rural children at risk?

             Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Mr. Speaker, this issue has been raised ever since the announcement of the budget, that we were rtailing the treatment portion of the Children's Dental Health Program, and I simply indicate to my honourable friend that the founding principles of health care reform are on preventative services and education around the appropriate personal activities to maintain one's health status, and that includes dental health.

             Mr. Speaker, I simply reinforce to my honourable friend that this component of prevention and education is to be maintained in the Children's Dental Health Program.  I said, as I have repeated in the past, it was with regret that we made the decision to curtail the treatment aspect of that program, but we maintain, Sir, the very essence of health care reform in terms of prevention and education services that my honourable friend thinks so appropriate.  We agree.  That is why they are still there.

 

Study

Tabling Request

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  Mr. Speaker, we have raised it before, and we will continue to raise it, because it is a great disappointment to rural Manitobans that the minister would make this decision.

             Will the Minister of Health table any information or any studies he has which led him to choose this program as a target for budget cuts?  Is there any information which shows that the Children's Dental Health Program was not effective?

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  Well, you know, Mr. Speaker, again, I have to say that no one on this side of the House took any particular joy in making the decision to curtail the treatment side of the program, nor did her confreres who govern in the province of Saskatchewan take any particular joy in removing the treatment portion of their program.

             I do not even suspect her confreres in Saskatchewan took any particular joy in reducing GRIP benefits to farmers right across from the Swan River valley that she represents.  Nor, my honourable friend, does she ever believe that the Saskatchewan government took any particular joy in curtailing funding to 52 acute care hospitals this year.  But the reality of government, Sir, says that you make those decisions, but you attempt at all possible times to maintain prevention and education, and that is what we are doing with this program.

Ms. Wowchuk:  Mr. Speaker, the minister should remember he is in Manitoba, and he should be proud of the programs we have in Manitoba.

* (1410)

 

Consultations

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  Before eliminating this program and the jobs, did he have any discussion with his federal counterparts with respect to the impacts that these cuts would have on those employees, all of whom are women and several who are on maternity leave?  Did he have any discussion on how this would be handled‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member has put her question.

Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health):  I realize that my honourable friend gets rather excited.

             Mr. Speaker, I attempt not to use the budgetary decisions of other provinces and how consistent they are with decisions we have made in the province of Manitoba because each province has a responsibility to govern and make decisions in the best way possible.

             What I attempt to do, in bringing examples like Saskatchewan forward‑‑is that there are governing responsibilities from Newfoundland to British Columbia, and in government today, governments, regardless of political stripe and affiliation, make difficult decisions.

             It is only irresponsible opposition parties that say they can be all things to all people.  They can lower deficits, lower taxes, increase services and mislead the public, Sir.

 

Simplot Plant

Future Status

 

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):  I have a question for the Premier or the Acting Minister of Industry.

             Given the fact that the Conservative government of Grant Devine financed the construction of a new Cargill fertilizer plant in Saskatchewan and that its existence would threaten the future of the Simplot plant in Brandon, and since the Minister of Industry has said he was working very closely with the company on an expansion program, and since it is now reported that Simplot cannot get financing to allow it to proceed, my question is:  Can the Premier tell us now exactly what is the future of Simplot in the province of Manitoba?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):   Mr. Speaker, I have not had a recent briefing from the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Stefanson), but as I understand it, Simplot intends to carry on its operations at the level they currently are in Brandon.

Mr. Leonard Evans:  My supplementary question:  Can the Premier be truly confident that Simplot will be able to survive?‑‑because initially it was reported that the company had to either expand or it would perish.

             So the question is:  Is that situation now changed, and is the company no longer seeking provincial financial assistance?

Mr. Filmon:   Mr. Speaker, according to Simplot, it is business as usual.  If the member has better information, I would be pleased to have him share it.

 

Manufacturing Industry

Employment Decline

 

Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East):  Mr. Speaker, my questions are based on previous statements made by the Industry minister where he says‑‑

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member for Brandon East, with his question, please.

Mr. Leonard Evans:  Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask an auxiliary question to the Premier:  Can he explain to the House why jobs in the manufacturing industry in Manitoba are continuing to decline?‑‑because I note that in the first four months of this year, Manitoba declined by 7.6 percent from last year, whereas there was an increase of 1.4 percent in manufacturing jobs in all of Canada.

             Why are we going against the national trend?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):   Mr. Speaker, during that same period of time, of course, the member opposite will know that the total number of jobs in Manitoba has increased and, in particular, the total number of full‑time jobs has increased.

             The member will probably know that we have a new plant in Morden from Monsanto that has been announced and is beginning its construction, that Carte Electric yesterday announced 72 additional jobs in a manufacturing facility in Morden, that Ayerst in Brandon is more than tripling the size of its operations and investing more than $130 million direct investment, Mr. Speaker, that many of the companies such as Lode‑King in Winkler are up to all‑time record levels of employment and expanding, and we continue to work very hard to encourage investment and job creation in this province.

             That is our goal, to continue the kind of trend that we are seeing of more people making investments, of more jobs, new jobs being announced and more new opportunities for Manitobans.  That may be a great disappointment to the member for Brandon East, but it is a great boon to the people of Manitoba.

 

Domo Station‑Henderson Highway

On-Site Inspection

 

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster):  Again today, Mr. Speaker, we see that Henderson Highway is being closed because of an incident that has occurred, in part, because of the inaction of government regulation to take care of the leakage of gas tanks that are buried underground.  The concerns that have been expressed from motorists and residents that live in the area have to be addressed by this particular government.

             The Premier made reference to the law.  My question to the Premier is:  Can he tell this Chamber when, in fact, there was the last on‑site check of that particular gas station?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):   Mr. Speaker, I will take that question as notice on behalf of the Minister of Environment (Mr. Cummings).