LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Tuesday, May 24, 1994

 

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

 

PRAYERS

 

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS AND

TABLING OF REPORTS

 

Western Premiers' Conference

 

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, I have a statement for the House, copies available for opposition members, as well as copies of communiques and reports from the Western Premiers' Conference last week in Gimli.

 

          Mr. Speaker, I am tabling copies of the 11 communiques and two reports which were released during last week's Western Premiers' Conference in Gimli.

 

          The range of topics covered in the communiques shows that the western provinces and territories remain committed to close co‑operation and to working together on key priorities for the West and for Canada.  Over the weekend, one commentator noted the remarkable unanimity in the communiques, and it is remarkable indeed.

 

          What is particularly encouraging is the commitment by the western provinces and territories to move ahead together in several important areas, including development of a strategic investment plan for western Canadian infrastructure needs; the establishment of new western export consortia to ensure the West can compete more effectively for large international projects; confirmation of our continuing united position in opposition to tobacco smuggling; a commitment to strong co‑operation on taxation and budgetary policies, as well as the national training and social security reviews; a recommendation to the Prime Minister that the Premier of Saskatchewan be the co‑chair of the national forum on health; continuing joint work on new farm safety net programs; development of a more proactive approach to advancing Canada's case in international trade disputes; a strong endorsement of the international Trade ministers' effort to negotiate a comprehensive agreement by the end of June on reducing internal trade barriers; a full‑scale review of western transportation priorities to be led by Manitoba; confirmation of support for an ongoing formal relationship between the western Premiers and the western governors; agreement on the importance of moving ahead quickly with the federal government to reduce overlap and duplication and to pursue on a western regional basis co‑operative initiatives in such areas as environment, emergency preparedness, health care and public service renewal and reform; unanimous support for the continuation of bilateral federal‑provincial economic development agreements in the West and for the inclusion of the Northwest Territories and Yukon as full participants in meetings of western industry and economic development ministers with their federal counterpart; and finally, a call on the Prime Minister to restart the process of annual First Ministers' conferences on the economy, and in addition, to continue the practice started last year of consulting the provinces in advance of the yearly G‑7 summits.

 

          The other Premiers and territorial leaders were very generous in describing the success of the conference.  I believe a large part of the credit should go to the hospitality provided by the people of Gimli and the surrounding community.  They made everyone feel very welcome, and I believe they can be proud of the positive impression of Manitoba which our visitors took away with them at the conclusion of the conference.

 

          I would like to pay particular tribute to the member for Gimli (Mr. Helwer), as well as the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) and the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Downey) for their contributions to making this year's conference one of the best and most productive our province has hosted.

 

          Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

 

* (1335)

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Premier for his statement to the Legislature this afternoon.

 

          We would like to start and congratulate the people of the Interlake and the people of the Gimli community for what we have heard to be just a tremendous job in hosting the Western Premiers' meeting.  We are all very proud of the job that Manitobans and members of the Gimli community provided to host this important meeting of western Premiers.

 

          I would like to talk a little bit about the substance of the meeting and about the statement the Premier made to this Legislature and about other media reports that we have been able to glean over the four‑ or five‑day period that the stories came from the meeting.

 

          First of all, we think it is a very positive idea that the Premiers have proposed that Premier Romanow of Saskatchewan co‑host the discussions on health care reform.  When we consider the Premier's own Estimates in this Chamber, he was able to confirm that the federal government's reduction in EPF has continued past the Mulroney years and on now to the new government's years and budgets.  This means that we are going to be down to about 70 percent of funding of health care from the provincial governments and down to 30 percent and less in declining amount of money from the provincial [sic] government.

 

          So it seems to us that our first priority should be to get a strong national government and strong national standards and strong national funding as part of the health care reform.  We believe very strongly in a strong partnership between the provinces and the federal government.  To us, partnership also is not just talk, it is also action in the form of the federal budgets that we see in the province.  So I think it is a good proposal, and we wish the government well on having this kind of co‑operative review of health care rather than a unilateral review.

 

          We also note the recommendation on smoking, and I applaud the western Premiers on that issue.  Certainly, the smuggling has gone from north‑south to east‑west.  This, the Tuesday after the long weekend, I have talked to a Manitoba retailer over the weekend and, of course, we are suffering because of this change in policy.  I am sure the government feels it in their revenues or will feel it in their revenues over time.

 

          The whole issue of powers‑‑there was a report on powers.  Devolution of powers was one headline, other reports about rationalization of powers.  We in Manitoba I believe continue to be committed to a strong national government, and I personally believe that we in Manitoba should present that view to the other western Premiers who have traditionally had a more decentralist view of the national government.  I hope Manitoba continues to have a strong voice for the presence of a strong national government.

 

          There are various decisions that have to be looked at.  I happen to believe that we should have a strong national presence in environment.  Ecosystems do not stop and start at provincial boundaries.  They cross waters and air, and ecosystems cross provincial boundaries.  I actually believe that rather than having the reaction we saw with the Oldman River in Alberta for more unilateral provincial powers in the environment, I believe we should have a stronger national and international view of that position.  I would urge the provincial government to take that to the table, rather than the watered‑down, shared position they have in the communique.

 

          The whole issue of taxation is a very important issue.  Manitoba has not presented a report or a position paper yet to the federal government on the GST.  Saskatchewan has and the whole issue of fair taxation, I believe, will be a major issue in Canada as the GST debate continues.

 

          On the issue of trade, we note that the communique is continuing to work towards a June 1994 resolution of trade.  We believe that areas of strong and high unemployment must be considered along with our needs of commerce, and northern and aboriginal communities must be considered in any communique or position that Canada does finally resolve.

 

          Finally, on the issue of agriculture, we wish the government well.  We do not note any strong, co‑ordinated approach of the western Premiers dealing with the farm support programs.  Some provinces want to proceed with the removal of the Wheat Board.  Other provinces want to keep a strong Wheat Board.  That is the same kind of dichotomy we see between our western Premiers and provinces on transportation policies and other issues.  I am pleased this government will look at the whole issue of transportation.  How many jobs will we lose with CN and CP, with their merger?  What will it mean for Manitoba?  What will it mean for western Canada?  What will it mean for our producers?  We wish the government well in their ongoing dialogue on some of these areas of activity.

 

          Thank you very, very much, Mr. Speaker.

 

* (1340)

 

Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, I want to join comments with the Leader of the Opposition and the Premier (Mr. Filmon) in congratulating the people of Gimli and of the Interlake region for putting on a very, very fine job of hosting indeed.  All reports were that it was extremely well done by that community.  I do not think we would have expected any less.  They have proven that in the past, but they have obviously shown their hospitality again.

 

          Mr. Speaker, there are specific concerns about some of the documents that the First Minister has sent out; in particular the communiques which we had earlier received, and we are glad to have his comments this morning, but there are comments we have on some of those communiques which will come up in Question Period today.

 

          By way of overview, Mr. Speaker, I simply wanted to say that I was, of course, pleased to see that a large topic of discussion was the whole area of western co‑operation, both on the economic front and in terms of the expenditures of government across this region.  I have consistently maintained and continue to do so, that this region of the country still lags far behind other regions, most notably Atlantic Canada in recent years on that front, and there are many millions if not billions of dollars to be saved for our common taxpayers.

 

          Mr. Speaker, the other issue that I raise as a general statement here is that, again, and unfortunately in recent years‑‑and I see the pattern unfortunately continuing‑‑the whole genesis and the whole‑‑what is contained more than anything else in these 26 pages of press releases, 11 of them.  One wonders what else was done except write communiques; 26 pages in two and a half days is not bad.

 

          In any event, the press releases either start or degenerate to largely continuing by the provincial governments to blame other levels of government, most notably, of course, time and time again, the federal government.  No doubt there are always those criticisms to be made, but that has become an increasingly, still is, the raison d'être apparently of these meetings, is to do this.

 

          What I would like to see, Mr. Speaker, what I think Manitobans would like to see is some concrete solutions, some things that are actually coming forward, that are actually being done by these provincial governments.  There is a lot of hypocrisy in talking about offloading when this government has offloaded in every single budget that it has come in with‑‑seven budgets in a row.

 

          There is a certain level of credibility which I think is continuing to lack from the overall talk about co‑operation and finding solutions.  It does not appear to be reflected in these.  There are a lot of communiques, 26 pages worth.  The words "co‑operation" or "co‑operatively" are used 30 times.  What do we have to show for it?  Those are the tough questions for the Premier (Mr. Filmon).

 

          Thank you.

 

* (1345)

 

* * *

 

Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the Annual Report, 1992‑93, of the Universities Grants Commission.

 

Introduction of Guests

 

Mr. Speaker:  Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery, where we have with us this afternoon from the Wanipigow School twenty‑five Grade 9 students under the direction of Ms. Marion Taylor.  This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson).

 

          From the Country View School, we have sixteen Grades 5 to 9 students under the direction of Mr. Brian Reimer.  This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Driedger).

 

          From the Ralph Brown School, we have thirty‑four Grades 5 and 6 students under the direction of Ms. Cora Duffy.  This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh).

 

          On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to welcome you here this afternoon.

 

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

 

Prime Motor Oils

Environmental Cleanup Costs

 

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier (Mr. Filmon).

 

          Last week, we were, unfortunately, given an Auditor's report dealing with the Hazardous Waste Corporation that indicated the company itself did not want any involvement of the Auditor in the affairs of public money and public investments in that corporation.

 

          Previous to this, we raised questions in the House about Solvit and Prime Oil, two private waste corporations that have resulted in considerable concern in our communities for both the safety of these operations and the costs.

 

          I would like to ask the Premier, how much did it cost the taxpayers to clean up the Solvit operation which was licensed from the provincial government, and did we recover any money from that corporation or take any legal action?

 

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Environment):  Mr. Speaker, the Solvit cleanup actually was not a large number.  I cannot call to memory the exact number.  We have attempted to take action to recover any possible dollars that are available from that site, but as you can appreciate, there is not a lot of value in the site.

 

          I think the member will have to be a little bit patient, however, in terms of Prime Oil, because one of the things that occurred there is that we spent a considerable amount of time working with the owners to get the liability down and get as much of that site cleaned up as possible.  Unfortunately, they eventually collapsed financially under not only the business climate they were in, but part of the pressure that we were putting on them in terms of bringing their operation up to snuff.

 

          We have spent, I believe, about $300,000 in getting rid of the initial amount of waste that was left onsite, but we have taken some very strong action to attempt to recover, and the courts will ultimately decide how much.

 

Mr. Doer:  Mr. Speaker, Prime Oil is a company, and the amount of money we understand for Solvit is $60,000, which is a lot of money in terms of all the other decisions government is making in terms of reduction in services.

 

          The minister has indicated and we have Freedom of Information indicating that considerable amounts of public money have been spent on Prime Oil.  This is a company that the government cited in its Fire Commissioner's report in 1989 and '90 as an exemplary company, and a company, of course, which they went and licensed, Mr. Speaker.

 

          We have close to $300,000 outstanding, and to date, there has only been one judgment against Prime Oil, and that is a judgment in February of 1994, of some $65,000.

 

          I would like to ask the government, how much will the total bill be for cleanup because the Freedom of Information indicates that this is not the total amount of money?  What will the total amount of money be that the government will spend to clean this Prime Oil site up?  How much money do we expect to recover, and what are we going to be short from another private operation?

 

* (1350)

 

Mr. Cummings:  Mr. Speaker, I am not sure if the implication is that we should have more public and less private operations in the handling of hazardous waste in this province, but in the soil cleanup at Prime Oil, there has to be some analysis as to what level of contamination there is.  The whole area is being evaluated quite carefully to make sure we do not inadvertently overlook something.

 

          The member should know that this is one of those situations where the owners‑‑we have attempted and will continue to attempt to recover from their personal assets.  Frankly, all of their personal assets, I believe, are likely at risk in attempting to recover the costs here, and the courts will ultimately decide what is fair.

 

Mr. Doer:  The minister asked us what our position is, and we believe that this hazardous waste material should be handled in a nonprofit way by a public corporation where the safety of citizens is the primary consideration, not the profit of individuals.  That is our philosophy on dealing with hazardous waste.  That is why we are opposed to privatization and other moves by this government over the years and specifically this spring.

 

          I would like to ask the government, what are they going to do to stop their licensing of private companies that has resulted in explosions, in fires, in material being left in the grounds and material being left in our communities and the government and the taxpayer being left with the bill at the end of the day?  What are they going to do to stop this in the future?  It is they who licensed these corporations.  It is they who allowed these organizations to exist, and it is they now who are picking up the tab for cleaning up.

 

          What are they going to do to stop this in the future?  We have had two cases already.  How are they going to stop this in the future?

 

Mr. Cummings:  Mr. Speaker, I am disappointed that the Leader of the Opposition would take the approach in opposition to have the private sector come in and invest up to $20 million in hazardous waste management and control in this province‑‑that coming from the Leader of the Opposition, a party that supported Manfor for which we are paying a $13‑million environmental cleanup‑‑$13 million.

 

          Does he want to go into the taxpayers' pockets for more of that kind of waste and ineptitude?  I think not, Mr. Speaker.

 

          Mr. Speaker, when we look to the Prime Oil development, the liability at that site began decades ago and has gradually built up until this government started to take some action to make sure they either cleaned up or they were put out of business.  They have eventually been put out of business, and we are making sure that they pay everything that we can possibly get them to in terms of the cleanup.

 

Agriculture Marketing Boards

Government Position

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  Mr. Speaker, the Canadian Wheat Board and marketing boards have played a very important role in the farming economy of Canada, as well as the economy of all rural communities.  However, we learn that at the Western Premiers' Conference, there were some Premiers, particularly Premier Klein, who would like to see marketing boards gone and would like to see the Wheat Board monopoly gone, as well.

 

          I would like to ask the Premier if he will let us know what his position is.  Does he support the monopoly of the Wheat Board to stay as it is, as many farmers do, and does he support marketing boards in Canada?

 

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, we continue to believe and, in fact, I have indicated that one of the things we need to do is ensure that Americans understand what the role of the Wheat Board is, that it is not, as they allege, an organization that engages in subsidizing wheat for export, that, in fact, it is a marketing agency that has served the farmers of western Canada well in the past and I hope will continue to serve the farmers of western Canada well.  I at no time have advocated the removal or dismantling of the Canadian Wheat Board.

 

          With respect to marketing boards, we continue to be supportive of marketing boards, and at no time have we suggested that marketing boards ought not to continue to exist in our province.  We recognize that under the GATT agreement, certain changes will have to be made with respect to tariffication as the way of the future for marketing boards, but I have not been an advocate of the dismantling of marketing boards in Manitoba either.

 

* (1355)

 

Agriculture Marketing Boards

Government Position

 

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River):  Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to hear that, and I hope that someday we can get this Premier to encourage the federal government to add more crops under the Canadian Wheat Boards's mandate, as farmers would like to see.

 

          If farm support programs are to be successful, we believe that they should be national programs, where there is equality across the provinces.  However, from the communique, we see that there are certain measures of protection that are not covered and still have to be defined.

 

          I want to ask the Minister of Agriculture whether these areas that have to be defined yet will be tabled in this House prior to the Ministers of Agriculture meeting that is upcoming.

 

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture):  Mr. Speaker, I cannot give the honourable member the answer perhaps that she is requesting inasmuch as a fairly substantial committee involving the provinces is currently meeting to place some of the questions before that upcoming conference that she alludes to, and decisions will not be made until the first week, second week, of July when the ministers meet here in Winnipeg.

 

Ms. Wowchuk:  Mr. Speaker, surely, since other provinces have position papers, the Manitoba group must have some positions, as well.

 

          Since Manitoba producers, Mr. Speaker, need to know the position of this government, we need to know what position the Minister of Agriculture has taken, will the Minister of Agriculture, prior to the meeting, table his position paper in this Chamber, so that we can look at what Manitoba's position is on safety support programs for farmers?

 

Mr. Enns:  Mr. Speaker, I am not trying to be difficult with the honourable member.  I am simply saying that I have listened very carefully to everything that our federal minister Mr. Goodale has to say about it.

 

          He speaks in general terms about a whole farm program, I understand, and our officials are working towards that end, that it means, in many instances, perhaps an extension or enhancement of the NISA program in some cases, particularly in those areas where past programs, like the tripartite programs in beef, pork and other individual commodity items, are being dropped in this current year.

 

          Mr. Speaker, these are issues that a very significant group of Manitobans, some 14 or 15 in all, representing virtually all the agricultural community, is engaged in advising me.  They are participants in a much greater committee, consisting of some, I am told, 40 or 45 people from across the country who are meeting on a fairly regular basis to make these suggestions to the ministers when they meet in July here in Winnipeg.

 

Environmental Management

Jurisdiction

 

Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition):  Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier.  As one read through the 11 communiques, one I wanted to raise with the minister was Communique No. 9.  This is about the 24th page of communiques.  This conference did succeed in tripling the number of communiques from the last one.

 

          This communique calls for the devolution of authority down to the provinces in environmental management framework and classifies that as an immediate priority, and The Globe and Mail of Saturday indicates, and I would like the minister to clarify that the western leaders identified a number of areas including environmental management in which the federal government could cede control to the provinces.

 

          Mr. Speaker, my question for the First Minister:  Is it his position, and did he join with the other Premiers in calling for environmental management and control of environmental reviews to be given solely to the provinces?

 

          That strikes me as the one area in which it makes no sense to have the provinces individually regulate this in isolation, because we all know that air and water travel and environmental pollution and degradation is a larger issue than our borders as provinces allow us to somehow curtail the pollution.

 

          My question to the Premier:  Is that his position, that the provinces want full control over environmental management?

 

* (1400)

 

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Mr. Speaker, I must say that is the last area of communiques that I thought that the Leader of the Liberal Party would strike on, because he has been one who has constantly advocated our trying to remove the overlapping duplication between and among the provinces.  He has always talked about the tremendous savings that would occur if we harmonized our efforts or if we combined into one commission or other things.

 

          Mr. Speaker, this is precisely an area in which there is overlap.  In fact, I have been one who has said that there ought to be consistent federal standards, but it seems to me that having federal standards or consistently agreed‑upon standards across the provinces does not necessarily mean that we have to have two panels to review the environmental assessment for the same process.  This is direct overlap and duplication.  If you set your standards, you agree on your standards, and then you require two different panels just simply because you have two different levels of government, that does not make any sense whatsoever.

 

          So if we take that to the extent that he has been advocating in the past, that provinces ought to harmonize and get together their efforts, then you would have provinces doing the same thing.  Where you have border crossings, you have two provinces agreeing to have one review panel conducted on the basis of agreed‑upon standards.  That would make sense, as well.

 

          So, Mr. Speaker, we as governments are looking for ways to be innovative, to seek to accomplish the things that he says we should, and here he is the first one to stand up and say, ah, we should not do that.  I cannot understand where he is coming from.

 

Mr. Edwards:  Mr. Speaker, more nice words.  Creating 12 islands of environmental management in this country will do nothing to assist in the efficient and responsible management of the environment.  This Premier is calling essentially, with the others, to have complete control over the environment.  It is an international issue.  It certainly should not be restricted to provincial boundaries.

 

Western Economic Co‑operation

Report Tabling Request

 

Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition):  My supplementary question for the First Minister:  In the communique from the November meeting in Canmore between these Premiers, it was specifically indicated that the Premiers had asked at that time for a report from responsible ministers on items raised at the spring 1994 Western Premiers' Conference on western economic co‑operation.  An inventory was supplied at that time, and the report was to be tabled.

 

          We have, I certainly want to recognize, a report on learning and post‑secondary education distance learning.  Where is the overall report on the western economic co‑operation initiatives that was promised in Canmore back in November?

 

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier):  Speaking to the member's postamble, you do not have 12 islands if you agree on one uniform set of standards.  That is the first principle, that you agree on one uniform set of standards across 12 jurisdictions, so you cannot possibly have 12 islands.  I reject totally his postamble.

 

          With respect to the areas of co‑operation, Mr. Speaker, the Premier of Alberta updated the report which had been delivered in Canmore to indicate that there have been not only the more than 160 areas of co‑operation that had been listed in Canmore but that we had a whole new series that were being catalogued; not only the report that he has referred to on the use of the electronic highway for distance education, but we have new areas of co‑operation.

 

          For instance, in Manitoba and Saskatchewan, we are having a common fire tack for early identification of fires so that they can then take action on the fires regardless of which side of the border they occur on.  As soon as the fires are identified, these crews‑‑the first group, for instance, is at Bakers Narrows, and it covers the northern Manitoba area near Flin Flon and Creighton, Saskatchewan.

 

          There are a number of other areas in curriculum development in education that are being proceeded with.  We talked about areas such as university level courses where it is now being acknowledged that we have far too many of the same professional faculties in some areas, and so we are looking at that.

 

          The area is exploding so rapidly that the Premier of Alberta did not have an accurate handle on all these things, because it had only been less than six months since we had the meeting, for instance, in Canmore, and it was agreed upon that we would have a much more comprehensive review of all of these areas of co‑operation for our next meeting.

 

Mr. Edwards:  Again, Mr. Speaker, very nice words, lots of communiques, but the report promised in November is not here, unless we are to take the 26 pages of communiques as the report.

 

Western Economic Co‑operation

Common Curriculum

 

Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition):  I have a final question for the First Minister.

 

          He specifically mentions curriculum and education.  Just two months ago, the Atlantic Premiers announced a joint approach to curriculum in the core subjects across their region.  They are going to come up with the same curriculum to assist not only in saving money in coming up with new curriculum, but also in the mobility of their citizens throughout that region.

 

          My question for the First Minister:  They made a commitment two months ago and set a timetable.  What is the commitment, the real commitment of these Premiers in this region to do the same thing in that area that the Minister of Education mentioned just a few weeks ago was a good idea?  What is the commitment?  What is the time line for our region towards a common curriculum in the core subjects, Mr. Speaker?

 

Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Education and Training):  Mr. Speaker, as I indicated in the Estimates review just last week, the protocols are in place as between the provincial governments of western Canada and the territories.  We have gone some distance in one subject area, particularly in mathematics, and we are working collaboratively in the area of science.

 

          I would indicate, Mr. Speaker, that we have some distance to make up.  Manitoba is driving that process more so than any other province in western Canada.  I expect as a result of the meetings in Gimli that there certainly will be greater desire from our provinces to the west to move on even more quickly.

 

          I find it rather indifferent on behalf of the Leader of the Liberal Party to pose these questions when his critic of Education is challenging us for holding our numbers of people within curriculum development, because we are trying to prevent the overlap and duplication, and we are trying to work to greater efficiency with our limited resources.

 

          So the member is talking out of both sides of his mouth.

 

Maintenance Enforcement Program

Service Access

 

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns):  Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Justice.

 

          Despite the hopes expressed by the Ombudsman in his 1992 report and promises by past Ministers of Justice, the Maintenance Enforcement Program in Manitoba is now apparently functioning even worse than ever.  In the last couple of weeks alone, I am aware of several cases where recipients are not even returned messages; for example, one case where eight messages were left over 11 weeks, another case where seven messages were left over seven and a half weeks.

 

          My question to the minister is, what immediate shakeup of the Maintenance Enforcement office can the minister announce to people like Tammy Williamson, who is in the gallery today, a very frustrated single mom, because she had to wait three weeks for a return call after leaving 20 messages with her officer?

 

Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Justice and Attorney General):  Mr. Speaker, in the area of maintenance enforcement, as I have said in the House before, we are looking to certainly increase efficiency.  We have been able to increase efficiency in some areas, and we are looking to continue to do so.

 

          The specific case the member raises in the House, I would have been very appreciative if he had let me know the circumstances of that so I could look into it, because our concern for Manitobans is of the utmost importance.  The member chooses to raise it here, so I have no idea how many of those calls were placed within a certain amount of time.  However, it is always our effort to return the calls of Manitobans and to see that they get the information they need.

 

Mr. Mackintosh:  Perhaps the minister would advise the House why, when a phone call was made on about April 5 to her office, her assistant said he would get right on it and that person has never heard back yet.

 

Mrs. Vodrey:  Mr. Speaker, the member makes accusations in this House, accusations where, obviously, I do not have the information at this moment, but if he would give me more details, I will certainly look into that, too.

 

          However, Mr. Speaker, just to assure Manitobans‑‑because the member often seeks to make Manitobans fearful, and I would like to assure Manitobans that we have certainly taken action in the area of maintenance enforcement by increasing the number of officers.  We have increased them by two more in this budget year.

 

          We also have an enhanced computer system now so that we can‑‑[interjection] The members opposite seem to have a great deal of trouble understanding or seem to think it is really very funny.

 

          The information required by those Manitobans is information which we are seeking to provide to them very quickly.  By putting it into a computer system, we are able to bring it up more quickly than finding that information manually.  Members opposite have treated that also with disdain.

 

* (1410)

 

Mr. Mackintosh:  My final question to the minister is, how can such plans work when the caseloads of some officers continue to grow, in fact, in one case to 1,930 files, another one to 1,188 files as of May 6‑‑

 

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.

 

Mrs. Vodrey:  Mr. Speaker, the information that I have about the caseloads of officers is in the range of 800 to 900, which is similar to officers across Canada.  If the member has other information that would actually help Manitobans and help make this Maintenance Enforcement office function more efficiently, if he believes that there are always ways to make offices more efficient, I would be happy to hear that.

 

          The information that I have from the office is as I have explained to this House.  In addition, I have also explained how we are moving to an automated system where people may be able to pick up the phone, press certain numbers on the phone and get the information, which thereby frees the officers then to deal with more difficult and more complex problems.

 

Education Facilities

Asbestos Regulations

 

Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson):  Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Labour.

 

          Back in June 1992, the problem of developing a plan of action to deal with asbestos in the schools was raised with this minister.  It is clear from Regulation 53‑88 under The Workplace Safety and Health Act that there is a requirement, among other things, that an inventory of substances like asbestos be filed and posted and that there be a management plan developed.

 

          I would ask the minister why he has not taken action on this known problem of asbestos in the schools, particularly in ensuring an inventory is developed for St. James‑Assiniboia School Division, and if such an inventory does exist, will he table it in the House?

 

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Labour):  Mr. Speaker, as the member for Radisson should know, under The Workplace Safety and Health Act, the prime responsibility for a particular worksite lies or rests with the owners of that particular worksite.

 

          So, in the case of St. James‑Assiniboia School Division, they have a responsibility for the abatement of asbestos problems within their school division.  The Department of Labour Workplace Safety and Health Branch is the regulator.  We provide advice and assistance, and where action is not taken, we issue the appropriate orders and enforce them.

 

          So, if an inventory in that school division exists, it would be the property of the school division.  If we happen to have such an inventory, I will take it as notice to provide it to the member.

 

Ms. Cerilli:  Mr. Speaker, it is this minister's responsibility to enforce Workplace Safety and Health regulations, and I would ask him, what is preventing him from doing this, to ensure that they are enforced and that a program is developed, a comprehensive program, that is going to look at identifying asbestos in schools, that is going to look at the need for removal and is going to look at managing asbestos in certain situations so it does not have to be removed.

 

          This is a program that is being followed in other jurisdictions‑‑

 

Mr. Speaker:  Order, please.  The honourable member has put her question.

 

Mr. Praznik:  Mr. Speaker, as I pointed out to the member for Radisson, under The Workplace Safety and Health Act, the responsibility for dealing with a problem in a particular building lies with the owners of that building.  We are the regulators, and we work throughout the province with many owners of buildings to deal with asbestos, but I would point out to the member that she does tend to bring to this House, from time to time, information that is inadequate.

 

          A week or so ago, she asked me a question which I took as notice, and I do have that information to the member now, where she did come to this House indicating that a particular disease, I believe legionnaires' disease, had been found in a particular school, and from the latest report that we had, that there was only a screening test, not a diagnostic test that had revealed‑‑that was one of a number of possibilities.  Extensive air testing by the branch did not determine in any way that the particular organisms that caused that illness were present in the school.

 

          I would also inform the honourable member, where she indicated that there had been changes in branch policy with respect to indoor air quality, the branch getting out of that particular business directly, occurred in 1984 when the member's party was in government.

 

Ms. Cerilli:  Mr. Speaker, my final supplementary related to the issue of asbestos in the schools is, will the minister ensure that the code of practice is strengthened to deal with asbestos in public buildings, as I said earlier, so we can have a comprehensive program in Manitoba, enforced in Manitoba, as they have in other jurisdictions?

 

Mr. Praznik:  Mr. Speaker, one very important part of Workplace Safety and Health is risk management.  The member for Radisson tends to bring to this House accusations of problems without any solid indication that there is a particular problem.  I would suggest to the member for Radisson, if she has particular incidents that are not being properly handled now, that present a health risk to people in any buildings in this province, that she bring it forward to our staff, and we would be more than pleased to respond.

 

          What we cannot deal with and what does not lead to, I think, good administration of health and safety legislation, is unfo