Vol. 18a, May 2, 1994

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Monday, May 2, 1994

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

PRAYERS

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS

Child Care System

Mr. Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Mr. Schellenberg). It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

An Honourable Member: Yes.

Mr. Speaker: The Clerk will read.

Mr. Clerk (William Remnant): The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

WHEREAS under the previous NDP government the province of Manitoba developed the best child care system in North America; and

WHEREAS this child care system was accessible, affordable, of high quality, community‑based and nonprofit; and

WHEREAS the current provincial government has cut salary enhancement grants, increased parent fees, reduced the number of spaces for child care, reduced the number of weeks of child care for parents searching for work; and

WHEREAS many child care centres have seen children withdrawn, have been forced to lay off staff or roll back wages; and

WHEREAS many child care centres are experiencing severe financial problems; and

WHEREAS child care is known to be money saving in the long term, including savings on unemployment insurance, social assistance and other government programs; and

WHEREAS in the 1994 provincial budget child care grants were cut by $300,000.

WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly urge the provincial government to consider restoring funding and accessibility to high quality, affordable, nonprofit child care with decent wages for all child care employees.

Curran Contract Cancellation and

Pharmacare and Home Care Reinstatement

Mr. Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Mr. Santos). It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

Some Honourable Members: Dispense.

Mr. Speaker: Dispense.

The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

WHEREAS the Manitoba government has repeatedly broken promises to support the Pharmacare program and has in fact cut benefits and increased deductibles far above the inflation rate; and

WHEREAS the Pharmacare program was brought in by the NDP as a preventative program which keeps people out of costly hospital beds and institutions; and

WHEREAS rather than cutting benefits and increasing deductibles the provincial government should be demanding the federal government cancel recent cuts to generic drugs that occurred under the Drug Patent Act; and

WHEREAS at the same time Manitoba government has also cut home care and implemented user fees; and

WHEREAS the Manitoba government is giving an American health care consultant over $4 million to implement further cuts in health care.

WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly urge the Premier to personally step in and order the cancellation of the Connie Curran contract and consider cancelling the recent cuts to the Pharmacare and Home Care programs.

APM Incorporated Remuneration and

Pharmacare and Home Care Reinstatement

Mr. Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member (Mr. Dewar). It complies with the privileges and the practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

Some Honourable Members: Dispense.

Mr. Speaker: Dispense.

The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that:

WHEREAS the Manitoba government has repeatedly broken promises to support the Pharmacare program and has in fact cut benefits and increased deductibles far above the inflation rate; and

WHEREAS the Pharmacare program was brought in by the NDP as a preventative program which keeps people out of costly hospital beds and institutions; and

WHEREAS at the same time Manitoba government has also cut home care and implemented user fees; and

WHEREAS the Manitoba government paid an American health care consultant over $4 million to implement further cuts in health care.

WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly urge the Premier to personally step in and order the repayment of the $4 million paid to Connie Curran and her firm APM Incorporated and consider cancelling the recent cuts to the Pharmacare and Home Care programs.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS AND

TABLING OF REPORTS

Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development): Mr. Speaker, I have the honour today of tabling the Supplementary Information For Legislative Review, 1994‑1995 Departmental Expenditure Estimates for the Department of Rural Development.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the Annual Report 1992‑93 of the then‑Alcoholism Foundation of Manitoba.

Mr. Speaker, I am tabling the Annual Report 1992‑93 for the Department of Health, and I am formally tabling today the Supplementary Information for Legislative Review, 1994‑1995 Departmental Expenditure Estimates for the Department of Health, although I made copies available to the party critics on Friday afternoon.

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family Services): Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to table the Annual Report 1992‑93 for Manitoba Family Services.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Labour): Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to table the Annual Report 1992‑93 of the Manitoba Labour Board.

Hon. Jim Ernst (Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the Annual Report 1993 of The Public Utilities Board.

National Forest Week

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Mr. Speaker, I have a statement.

I wish to share with the members of this House some information on behalf of Manitoba Natural Resources.

During the month of May, Manitobans of all ages will be celebrating three related events.

The week of May 1 to 7 is National Forest Week. We are blessed with a vast wealth of woodlands which have played and continue to play a vital role in Manitoba's and Canada's well‑being on many fronts. This is a most appropriate time to reflect on the economic, recreational and environmental importance of Canada's forests.

May also marks the 75th anniversary of the Manitoba Forestry Association. This local organization has worked continuously to educate and inform generations of Manitobans on the importance of forests and how to protect these valued natural resources for our future, and have provided the members of the House with trees that they see before them here today.

While these two events are significant, I feel that this third is equally worthy of celebration. May is the 50th birthday of one of the most recognized and popular program mascots in North America. Smokey the Bear celebrates five decades of fame as a furry firefighter and friend of forest fans everywhere. His special message, Only You Can Prevent Forest Fires, has reached over half a million Manitobans with the excellent support of the Manitoba Forestry Association.

Together, Smokey and the association have made us more aware of the need to protect the forests while we enjoy them. I ask the members of the House to join me and the Department of Natural Resources in congratulating the Manitoba Forestry Association on 75 years of outstanding service to Manitoba and wishing Smokey a very happy 50th birthday and in urging all Manitobans to participate in the celebration of National Forest Week. Thank you.

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Mr. Oscar Lathlin (The Pas): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise to join the Minister of Natural Resources in commemorating National Forest Week and Arbor Day 1994.

This week is National Forest Week. As the minister said, it is time for all of us to reflect on the economy, recreation and the environment and the importance of those resources not only to Manitoba but throughout Canada.

I, of course, come from northern Manitoba where we still have some forests left. I sometimes compare southern Manitoba and northern Manitoba in a lot of ways. There is another comparison I regularly make when I look at our province of Manitoba and that is, at one time southern Manitoba was not unlike northern Manitoba with the forests and everything, but of course, as development came on, land has been developed to the point now where in southern Manitoba we do not have the forests we used to. Hopefully, northern Manitoba will never turn out to be like southern Manitoba in terms of sustainable development.

I only wish that when it comes to government policy and budgets, these kinds of statements are reflected throughout government policy and in the budgets that governments present from time to time. I, for example, look at the operation in Repap. I wanted to mention that when I looked at the budget for this year, it again had been reduced considerably. I also look at Clearwater Lake Nursery, about how valuable a contribution that nursery had made to the people of northern Manitoba. With those words, Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the Forestry Association for these types of educational programs. Thank you.

Ms. Norma McCormick (Osborne): Mr. Speaker, as well, on behalf of our Liberal caucus, I would like to express our appreciation for the work of the Manitoba Forestry Association, and commend them on 75 years of service to our province.

We must, indeed, recognize that prevention goes beyond forest fire prevention. It is evident that a comprehensive forest management plan is more important today than ever before in ensuring the stewardship of our forests. We are still waiting, after six years of this government, for a comprehensive plan, and we look forward to an equal commitment from our government to leadership in protecting our forest resources. Thank you.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

Bill 3‑‑The Cancer Treatment and Research Foundation Amendment Act

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Minister of Education and Training (Mr. Manness), that leave be given to introduce Bill 3, The Cancer Treatment and Research Foundation Amendment Act (Loi modifiant la Loi sur la Fondation de traitement du cancer et de recherche en cancérologie), and that the same be now received and read a first time.

His Honour the Lieutenant‑Governor, having been advised of the contents of this bill, recommends it to the House, and, Mr. Speaker, I would like to table the message.

Motion agreed to.

Introduction of Guests

Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of honourable members to the Speaker's Gallery, where we have with us today, a gentleman celebrating his 50th birthday, the symbol of fire prevention, Smokey the Bear.

On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to welcome you here today and congratulate you, sir.

Also this afternoon, I would like to draw the attention of honourable member to the gallery, where we have with us 18 Japanese social workers from Sappaur, Japan. [interjection] Order, please. These are our guests this afternoon. We have 18 guests from Sappaur, Japan, and these are social workers.

On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to welcome you here this afternoon.

Now, from the Ness Junior High School, we have seventy‑five Grade 9 students under the direction of Mr. Baydak. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Urban Affairs (Mrs. McIntosh).

Also this afternoon we have, from the Ken Seaford School, twenty‑two Grade 9 students under the direction of Mr. Kraychuk. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for The Maples (Mr. Kowalski).

On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to welcome you all this afternoon.

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ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

Economic Growth

Government Strategy

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier.

Last year, to a lot of fanfare and public relations, the Premier announced to the people of Manitoba, in his Framework for Economic Growth, that Manitoba's economy is going to be performing relatively better than most of the country and it is well positioned for growth. The challenge now is to commit to the policy framework that will enable Manitoba to take advantage of opportunities for sustained economic growth.

Unfortunately, again the words have not met up to the actions of the Manitoba economy, and today Statistics Canada reports that Manitoba is tied for last place in economic performance in 1993.

Economic growth allows us to tell whether we are growing as a province, whether people are getting jobs, whether they are getting opportunities, whether our young people can stay in our province, build homes in our province, establish roots in our province, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to know, given the high degree of optimism in the Premier's press conference last year, and the unfortunate results at the end of the year, has the government made any adjustments at all in their economic strategy contained within their framework to deal with the reality of our growth rate rather than the optimistic pronouncements by the Premier?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I recommend that the Leader of the Opposition do a little analysis and find out just exactly what is contained within that Statistics Canada report, because were he to do that, he would find that the most negative impact and the major impact on that factor from a Manitoba perspective was the effect of last summer's abnormally heavy rainfall which resulted in a $308‑million loss to the farm economy.

If the nonfarm‑sector economy is separated from the farm‑sector economy, he will find that Manitoba's economy outperformed the national average. According to Statistics Canada, the nonfarm GDP grew by 3.1 percent, well above the national average of 2.7 percent.

As much as I know that he holds me responsible for everything that goes on in this province, I for one cannot accept the responsibility for the heavy rainfalls and the devastation that they wreaked on the farms of Manitoba. As much as I would like to take that responsibility, I cannot accept it.

Provincial Comparisons

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, the government has produced these types of predictions over the last number of years and, unfortunately, we have had very negative results.

Mr. Speaker, since the Premier has received a majority from the people of the province of Manitoba, a declining majority after the last by‑elections, the government has had a growth rate of .8 percent when all three years are put together‑‑less than 1 percent. We were tied for last or last place in 1991, we were at fifth place in 1992, and we are back to last place in 1993. The national average for those same three years is 4.5 percent.

I would like to know from the Premier, why is Manitoba performing at one‑sixth the rate of the rest of the country? Why is the growth rate in Canada six times greater than in Manitoba? Why are you at 15 percent the national average in terms of growth and performance here in Manitoba?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, as I pointed out to the Leader of the Opposition in my response to the budget, if he looks next door at Ontario, under a New Democratic government, in that same period of time they have had negative growth over that period of time, and the same thing is true of his colleagues in Saskatchewan.

The fact is what we are talking about here in terms of 1993 is as a result of a very, very poor condition in the weather that related to a $308‑million decline in the farm income, in farm production last year. Those are things that most Manitobans can understand, Mr. Speaker. I would hope that the Leader of the Opposition could, as well.

Employment Creation Strategy

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Saskatchewan's growth rate was significantly higher than Manitoba's last year, in 1993. Ontario's‑‑[interjection] Well, maybe God is a New Democrat, Mr. Speaker. You blame the opposition, you blame an act of God, you blame Ontario, you blame Saskatchewan, you blame Mulroney, you blame the new Liberal government. You never take responsibility yourself. You never take responsibility.

Mr. Speaker, over the first three months of this year, we have a 20 percent unemployment rate for young people. Now, it did go down over the last month from the month previous, but the trend level is still above the national average. Young people are lining up 24 hours in advance to try to get a job. Many young people are feeling the double pinch of not being able to find employment and having costs go up dramatically with tuition and other increases in costs, some of them directly due to the provincial government.

Will this government have a very active program to put our young people back to work again, so they can stay in Manitoba, so they can get an education in our province and we can start to see our economy growing again, instead of declining as it has under the Conservatives?

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Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I would ask the Leader of the Opposition not to try and put words in my mouth or not to try and misrepresent what I said. I did not blame agriculture on this. The fact is I quoted from Statistics Canada's analysis of it in which they said that the farm production was down by $308 million, and if you took aside that, the nonfarm economy outperformed the national average. Now, he may not want to accept that. He may want to be able to use something for his own political purposes, but that is fact and that is reality.

I do not blame my colleagues in Saskatchewan or Ontario either, Mr. Speaker. The fact of the matter is I say to him that he ought to make comparisons, that he ought to know and understand what is happening elsewhere in Canada and elsewhere throughout the world, because those are important things.

With respect to the youth employment programs in this province, I would just say to him that last year, as a result of the programs of this government, 9,457 youth were placed in employment through the Manitoba youth job centres and some 4,976 students were employed as a result of government programs in 1993‑94 government, Mr. Speaker.

He knows full well that the throne speech and the budget did indicate a strong commitment to job creation for our youth in Manitoba in 1994, and he knows, as well, that the youth unemployment dropped by I believe it was 5 percent month over month, and so there is a very strong improving trend as a result of initiatives being taken by this administration.

EITC Project List

Tabling Request

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon): Mr. Speaker, I certainly do not want to put words in the Premier's mouth, but in 1991, when the Premier announced the yet again shuffling of his economic portfolios and the creation of the Economic Innovation and Technology Council, the Premier said that the government's record would be determined over the next 18 months.

Mr. Speaker, we have seen today that the government's record is one of failure, and contrary to what the Premier says, in Ontario over those same three years the growth rate was five times what it was in Manitoba.

Mr. Speaker, my question is: After a series of failed deals by this government, including MacLeod‑Stedman, Royal Trust and Repap which is announcing more layoffs or the possible downsizing of the wood room at The Pas, a failed deal, can the minister indicate, the First Minister, or the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Downey), what direct projects the Economic Innovation and Technology Council has invested in on behalf of the people of Manitoba?

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Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I say to him that there are more people employed today by MacLeod‑Stedman's successor company, the company that bought them, Cotter Canada, than there was commitment‑‑[interjection] When Repap, under its former incarnation, Manitoba Forestry Products, was being run by that very member, the member for Flin Flon, it was losing $30 million a year and employing fewer people than it is today. That is the way these things are. The taxpayer paid with huge losses, and still people were being laid off.

The Economic Innovation and Technology Council was not set up to invest in businesses, Mr. Speaker. He ought to look at its terms of reference and the manner in which it was set up. It was set up to spur the development of innovation and technology in this province. As a result of that, this province's new jobs are in areas of the new economy. For instance, during the past year alone, as a result of telecommunications centres being opened up by Unitel, Canada Post and Canadian Pacific, as well as GWE in Brandon, almost a thousand jobs are involved in those four announcements, and those are in the areas of new technology.

I think that is something the member opposite ought to be happy about, instead of always preaching his doom and gloom here.

Mr. Storie: Mr. Speaker, I apologize for appearing to preach doom and gloom, as the First Minister says. What I would like to be able to tell Manitobans is that this government has an agenda.

Mr. Speaker, my question was with respect to the Economic Innovation and Technology Council. It does have a mandate to facilitate the transfer of technology between industry and research facilities.

Mr. Speaker, my question was: What projects has the Economic Innovation and Technology Council invested in? Will the First Minister table a list of those projects and explain what benefit there might be to the people of Manitoba.

Mr. Filmon: The Economic Innovation and Technology Council is there to stimulate the development of our innovation sector and our technology development sector. In addition to those telecommunications jobs that I just referred to, for instance, a company such as Monsanto had spent 10 years developing a dry form of glyphosate and looked worldwide for a place to locate that business, examined over 40 locations, and decided that the climate in Manitoba was the best available anywhere in the world.

That is the kind of development of the new technologies, the new investments in the new economy that are taking place as a result of the efforts of this government as well as its various other agencies such as the Economic Innovation and Technology Council.

EITC Project List

Tabling Request

Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin Flon): Mr. Speaker, simply because the Premier refuses to answer or perhaps does not know the answer, my final question is to the minister responsible for the EITC.

Can the minister explain why the largest single project, the largest single amount of support from EITC, some $500,000, has gone towards an innovations video?

Can the minister explain why that is a priority, and will the minister ensure that is not used like the Lotteries advertising as some pre‑election gimmick?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): The Economic Innovation and Technology Council is a group of dedicated men and women throughout Manitoba working with the government, whatever stripes, to put forward the best technology activity that they can.

I believe, Mr. Speaker, that they are relatively new. They have put together a communication piece that I think will further communicate and advance the best interests of Manitoba in technology development.

Unlike the New Democratic Party, where they are going around throughout the province bad‑mouthing Louisiana‑Pacific, bad‑mouthing the Ayerst Organics, bad‑mouthing GWE in Brandon, we want to take a positive approach to the development of business to technology in Manitoba.

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Economic Growth

Provincial Comparisons

Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I, too, read the Statistics Canada report today, as obviously the Premier did, and I was interested in the Premier's answers to my friend the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) on this subject.

The Premier appears to indicate, and cites the report in saying that because of the problems with the weather in the agricultural sector, we performed poorly in 1993.

I would like the Premier to answer a very simple question which flows from page 7 of that report. Obviously he is familiar with its contents.

In each of the last five years we have underperformed every other province in western Canada. Accumulatively, taken at a total of 3.8 percent growth over the last five years, ours has been 1.9 percent. That is half. That is taking the same measurement in the same years by the same organization. The overall five‑year total is not only half that of western Canada's average, but it is significantly less than the national average which was 2.9 percent. We were 1.9 percent.

Why every single year are we doing worse?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): The Leader of the Liberal Party obviously believes in the same philosophies as those espoused by, as he said, his friend the Leader of the Opposition, because I can tell him that one of the things that is a very fundamental part of any growth measurement is the amount of spending in the economy that governments do.

I can tell him that the model, when evaluated, shows that if the government increased its spending by 3 percent in any year, it would add 1 percent to the GDP growth of the province.

As a result, since this province has been on a fiscal framework that has involved less spending than all of those other provinces which he compares us to, we are doing less towards that consumptive side of GDP measurement. That consumptive side does not add one iota to the competitiveness, to the attractiveness for jobs or for investment in this province. All it does is consume people's tax dollars.

I know that is what the Liberal Party wants to do, but that is not what taxpayers want done.

Mr. Edwards The excuses just keep spinning and spinning and spinning.

Government Forecast

Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr. Speaker, given the Premier's comments, given that the Premier wants to indicate that there is some clear, cogent plan and that we are on track, and he has clearly said that so many times over the last years, why is it that each of the last five years‑‑it is not just that they have been wrong on predicting the economic growth, they have always overestimated it; they have always underestimated the deficit‑‑have they consistently been wrong about growth and overestimated it and underestimated their deficit?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, this government has maintained a record of fiscal management that is unmatched by any government in Canada.

Mr. Speaker, that is not the analysis of members of a political party who want to achieve some kind of cheap hit in Question Period; that is the quote of the Dominion Bond Rating Service. They said, this government has been the most fiscally responsible government in Canada from 1987 to the present.

This government has done that by meeting its targets, by and large, on the deficit and by doing it without raising any of the major taxes. We have met our targets better than anybody else.

Mr. Edwards: Two weeks ago when I questioned the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) in this area, he said, we rely on Statistics Canada.

Mr. Speaker, I put my faith in Statistics Canada, like the Minister of Finance, above the Dominion Bond Rating Service. They say we are tied for last. That is what they say: tied for last with Newfoundland. If you think we have had problems with rain, their fisheries have basically been wiped out. We are tied with them for last place.

My question for the Premier: Can the Premier explain the comment that he made to the business community in his Gary III: Tory Iron Man article in the Manitoba Business Magazine? Can he explain the comment to the rest of the community when he said in that interview, those who suggest that Canada through its own fiscal and financial policies can change job creation or economic growth in any dramatic way, are speaking nonsense? That was his quote, Mr. Speaker.

Can the Premier acknowledge and explain to us the Kim Campbell view that he appears to take, that it is all lost and we cannot do anything? Why is he leading us to believe that he can do something?

Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, this government has been very straightforward and said time and time again, we can create the climate for investment that will attract businesses, but we cannot be the ones responsible like New Democrats say they are, by spending $300 million or $400 million at a shot of other taxpayers' money to try and do some artificial stimulation of the economy.

The real long‑term jobs in this economy are going to be the ones created by Ayerst, by Monsanto, by Unitel, by Canadian Pacific, by Canada Post, by GWE systems, by Louisiana‑Pacific, by those companies. It is the economic environment that we create, the fiscal framework that we create, that will ensure that we get more than our share of investment.

Forest Management Division

Layoffs

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Mr. Speaker, at the beginning of National Forest Week, I think it is important that we recognize the importance of the forestry to the economy of this province, but the forest must be developed and managed properly. To do this we have to have adequate staff in place. We need people who will ensure that it is managed properly. However, we hear rumours that there are changes in the Forestry department, and people are going to be let go.

I want to ask the Minister of Natural Resources: How many people are being laid off in the Forest Management branch and what are the implications going to be on the forest management plan that is very important to the economy of this province?

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. I would ask the honourable member for Swan River to ascertain the accuracy of her facts before bringing it to the‑‑[interjection] Order, please. Now we will give the honourable member an opportunity to rephrase her question.

Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Natural Resources tell us how many people are being let go from the provincial Forest Management branch and what is the implication on the forest management plan that is very important to this province?

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Mr. Speaker, I want to assure the member that there is reorganization taking place within the department of Forestry, and I think that is a very natural thing that happens. Reorganization has taken place in the Department of Natural Resources in the various components, and this is the one component that had not been addressed yet. We are doing that in terms of the specifics of it, in terms of how many employees.

Once we get into the Estimates process, I will go through it job by job if they want to, but I think nothing untoward is happening. I feel very confident that by the time we do a reorganization, we will be able to deal with the challenges that are facing me and my department with forestry issues.

Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, the minister said some people are being let go. We want him to confirm today how many people are being let go from the Forest Management, Department of Natural Resources.

Mr. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, I did not say that there were any being let go. I said we were reorganizing the department. I will get the specifics for the member once we get to that point.

Forest Management Plan

Duck/Porcupine Mountains

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Mr. Speaker, to the same minister: Since January, we have been raising the matter of the sawmill operators in the Swan River area who are concerned about how they fit into the forest management plan, whether there is going to be wood allocated to them. They were assured that they would have an announcement by the end of the month.

Can the minister tell us: What is the plan? Has his department laid out a plan on how all the users fit into the forest management plan in the Duck and Porcupine Mountain area?

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Mr. Speaker, I just want to tell the member again, as I have in the past, that when the concerns were brought forward by the smaller operators or permit holders, by and large, I gave them the assurance that they would have enough wood allocations to bring them through this cutting period, while we were reorganizing exactly the whole picture in terms of allocations, how Louisiana‑Pacific fits in there with the hardwoods aspect of it.

Hardwoods, which are basically ash and popular, were not even in demand two years ago. This is why Louisiana‑Pacific is coming forward, and because they are coming forward, all of a sudden there is major concern and maybe not unwanted concern by many of the smaller operators that there will not be work.

Mr. Speaker, I want to assure the member that if we get Louisiana‑Pacific to establish the industry here in Manitoba, our operators out there are not going to be able to handle all the work that is going to be available to them.

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Mental Health Care

Emergency Services Review

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, over one year ago today, when the then‑Minister of Health announced community‑based services for mental health, a $4‑million program, we welcomed that announcement.

A month ago, when the present Minister of Health was apprised of the situation at St. Boniface and Health Sciences Centre regarding psychiatric patients clogging up the emergency rooms, the minister said on tape‑‑we reviewed the tapes‑‑that he would deal with the problem‑‑a month ago. We did not raise questions because we took him at his word.

On Friday, when we raised the question of the clogging of emergency rooms with psychiatric patients, the minister did not say anything in this House, but went into the hallway and said he now was going to conduct a review.

Can the minister today tell the House: What kind of review is being conducted? Who is conducting it? How long will it last? What‑‑

Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member has put his question.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): I have been very pleased over the last few months, Mr. Speaker, to note that changes have been taking place in the delivery of mental health services in Manitoba. Consumers of mental health services have been delighted to take part in partnership with the government to provide better services, something that is long overdue, been ignored for 20 years by governments in Manitoba, and this government is doing something about those things.

With respect to St. Boniface Hospital, Mr. Speaker, on Friday I announced, indeed, that Winnipeg Region of the Department of Health and the hospitals‑‑plural, not just St. Boniface Hospital‑‑are all working together to make sure the beds that are available in Winnipeg are properly used.

Certainly, since the unusually high traffic that there was last week, the department and the hospitals, and then the St. Boniface Hospital, have agreed that some swing beds would be made available for people. Those beds have not yet been required.