LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF
Thursday, June 2, 1994
The House met at 1:30
p.m.
PRAYERS
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
PRESENTING PETITIONS
Mrs. Shirley Render (St.
Vital): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of
Douglas Taylor, William J. Fraser and Lily B. Stearns praying for the passage
of an act incorporating the Manitoba Historical Society so that the activities
of the Manitoba Historical Society may continue as they have since its legal
dissolution by virtue of the repeal of an act to incorporate the Historical
Society of Manitoba on November 14, 1990.
PRESENTING REPORTS BY
STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES
Committee of Supply
Mrs. Louise Dacquay
(Chairperson of Committees): Mr.
Speaker, the Committee of Supply has supported certain resolutions, directs me
to report the same and asks leave to sit again.
I move, seconded by the honourable member for La Verendrye
(Mr. Sveinson), that the report of the committee be received.
Motion agreed to.
TABLING OF REPORTS
Hon. Leonard Derkach
(Minister of Rural Development): Mr. Speaker,
I would like to table the Annual Report for The Surface Rights Board of
Manitoba, 1993‑94.
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Mr. Speaker, I would like to table notes for
a presentation I made to the Special Joint Committee Reviewing Canadian Foreign
Policy meeting yesterday in
* (1335)
Introduction of Guests
Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the
attention of honourable members to the gallery, where we have with us this
afternoon from the
Also this afternoon, we have from the
From the Calvin Christian School, we have thirty Grade 9
students under the direction of Mr. John Buikema. This school is located in the constituency of
the honourable Minister of Family Services (Mrs. Mitchelson).
On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to
welcome you here this afternoon.
ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Royal Canadian Legion
Headgear Policy
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of
the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, later today, by leave, all the
members of this Chamber have agreed to celebrate and commemorate the 50th
Anniversary of D‑Day, a resolution that is placed before this House by
the member for St. Johns (Mr. Mackintosh) which will pay tribute to our
veterans and forces in the Second World War.
Unfortunately, this same time this week, we have some major
public controversy dealing with the whole issue of the Royal Canadian Legion's
decision to ban headgear in legion facilities, which obviously impacts on our
communities here in Manitoba.
I would like to ask the Premier, what position has the
provincial government on this issue in terms of either the human rights act of Manitoba
or the Human Rights Act of Canada?
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Mr. Speaker, like all members of the Chamber,
I am sure, we find it regrettable that a private organization would set those
kinds of discriminatory rules. I
personally certainly disagree with the position they have taken.
Having said that, it is not a matter in which the province
has jurisdiction in a private organization, and we cannot force them, against
their will, to change the position they have taken.
Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, all of us have paid tribute to
the tremendous community work that legions perform in all of our constituencies
right across Manitoba. I think last year
I was mentioning the milk program for the Duke of Marlborough School in
Churchill as a tremendous‑‑one of many thousands of contributions
that have been made by those very same legions to our communities.
But, Mr. Speaker, we have a Manitoba Human Rights Code
dealing with religious tolerance and religious practices. I wonder if the Premier has any legal opinion
about this issue dealing with the whole issue of religious rights and religious
tolerance as it applies to the Manitoba human rights act.
Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, I am sure the member knows that
this is an issue in which the legion itself is very divided. There are varying very strong opinions
amongst its members, many of whom do not agree with the position that has been
taken by the majority. There is no
question that it is an emotional and difficult issue.
We have not got a legal opinion on the issue, and that is
not a matter that I can comment on because I do not have a legal opinion.
Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, Manitoba has always been a
leader in religious tolerance. It has
also been a leader in volunteerism and community participation, and the
legions, of course, have exemplified that in our province.
Has the government looked at taking a leadership position
in Manitoba to deal with this challenge, to have religious organizations in
Manitoba meeting with the government and with the legions here in our province
to try to resolve this in a co‑operative way, consistent with our
principles of religious tolerance on the one hand and respect for the
tremendous work that our legions perform to our communities on the other hand?
* (1340)
Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, I think this is a decision that
had been taken by the national body of the legions in Canada, so it is not a
matter that is just a provincial issue.
I believe that legion members will be subject obviously to the
commentary of society, and the commentary of society has not been kind or
supportive of what they have done.
Under those circumstances, I am sure that they will be
searching their own souls to determine whether or not this is a matter that
they can leave untouched or whether or not they ought to reconsider.
Goods and Services Tax
Replacement
Mr. Leonard Evans
(Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the
Minister of Finance.
It appears that the Liberal government in Ottawa is about to
renege on its election promise to eliminate the hated GST. It looks as though all we are going to get
from the Liberals is a name change and a continuation of the regressive tax
that Canadians and Manitobans detest.
My question is, has the Minister of Finance a position on
this matter, and has he relayed it to the federal Minister of Finance?
Hon. Eric Stefanson
(Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I thank
the member for Brandon East for that question.
We had a question a few weeks ago on this issue and we indicated, we,
like most provinces in Canada, are awaiting the report of the House of Commons
committee that was mandated to review the GST.
They are scheduled to report, now, I believe, on June 20, and that
report is going to be one of the agenda items when we meet at the end of
June. Finance ministers meet at the end
of June. That item is on the
agenda. When we met as western and
territorial ministers during the Western Premiers' Conference, again we
discussed that only one province had actually gone and made a presentation.
This is a federal tax.
It is a commitment, as the member said, of the federal Liberals in terms
of replacing the GST. There have now
been media reports and rumours in terms of what they really are intending to do
with the GST, but we, like so many Canadians, are awaiting that report, and
that will obviously impact the decision we make.
We have some fundamental principles that we think are
absolutely important to any replacement for the GST in terms of accountability,
in terms of fairness, in terms of transparency, that any tax that a government
levels should be transparent and should not be hidden, Mr. Speaker. Those are some of the principles, as well as
dealing with overlap and duplication and so on.
Those are principles that we take to that meeting, Mr.
Speaker, that will impact how we judge whatever the federal government comes up
with in terms of replacing the GST or changing the GST.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Mr. Speaker, that is fine, but when the
Minister of Finance attends this meeting of federal‑provincial Ministers
of Finance, will he stand up for Manitoba consumers and insist that the Liberal
government live up to its election promise?
Is he prepared to put forward other proposals, and I am
sure he is, for fairer taxes, including the elimination of tax loopholes for
the rich and ending the exemption of taxes on family trusts?
Mr. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, we always stand up for
Manitobans, and we will be doing that again at the Finance ministers' meeting
at the end of June. I enunciated for the
member the kinds of principles that were going forward in terms of any
replacement with the GST, and those are absolutely critical.
As well, when we met as Finance ministers for western
Canada, we said we want many tax issues on the table when we discuss this with
the federal Liberals, because provinces, for many years, have had many tax
issues. We have talked about a tax on
income instead of a tax on tax. We have
talked about one single tax collection agency for all of Canada to eliminate
duplication and overlap in terms of what consumers and individuals have to file‑‑many
principles.
It really is indeed ironic, Mr. Speaker, that those issues
seem to continue to be pushed to the back burner, and one issue that was a
Liberal campaign commitment and promise gets elevated to the top. We are going there with a series of tax
issues that we feel are important to Manitoba.
We expect them all to be addressed during those meetings.
Harmonization
Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon
East): I appreciate the minister's comments, and I
suggest to him he could bring up the issue of family trust exemption. There is $1 billion alone from that issue, on
that one particular measure, that the Government of Canada could obtain. So that is something the minister could do
very positively, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to ask my final question to the minister. Are the minister and his staff now in
consultation or discussion with the federal government Ministry of Finance on
the possibility of harmonizing the provincial sales tax with the GST? I would add, Mr. Speaker, this would be a
move that would be bad news for Manitobans, however rational some people may
think it is, and would leave Manitobans to be even more cynical about governments.
* (1345)
Hon. Eric Stefanson
(Minister of Finance): The short answer,
Mr. Speaker, is no, we are not in any discussions with the federal government
on harmonization. We, as the member for
Brandon East knows, opposed harmonization, that taxes are not harmonized here
in Manitoba. I believe only one province
in Canada has, in fact, harmonized, and unless we see good and valid reasons,
that will continue to be our position.
We will await to see what this report does bring forward
from the House of Commons committee, but as I have already indicated, it has to
represent fairness for individual citizens of Manitoba and Canada. It has to have accountability; it has to have
transparency.
I will say again, Mr. Speaker, that we oppose any kind of a
hidden tax, that we are finally getting away from hidden taxes so that
consumers and the public are aware of what kind of taxes they are paying. Any step by the federal Liberals to go back
to hidden taxes, from our view, would be regressive.
I want to conclude, because I took that matter on family
trusts as notice when the member for Brandon East brought it up the other day,
we do have a position that trusts should not provide a vehicle to escape income
taxes on capital gains in perpetuity.
That is the concern with the issue the member brought up, because there
was a 21‑year freeze and there is now this extension of another 21 years,
so that is a concern of ours.
As he knows, it is a federal jurisdiction. It is an area of federal responsibility. I will be corresponding with my counterpart
the federal minister on this issue, and I am sure we will have an opportunity
to discuss it when we meet at the end of June.
Royal Canadian Legion
Headgear Policy
Mr. Paul Edwards (Leader
of the Second Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I
listened closely to the initial questions today from the Leader of the
Opposition (Mr. Doer) and the responses of the Premier. I want to follow up with a further question
on the issue of the recent decision taken by the national council of the Legion.
I want to ask the Premier in view of his response, he did
mention that the province did not have a legal opinion at this point, I
believe, and he also indicated, I believe, that he felt the Manitoba human
rights act would not apply to this private organization.
Mr. Speaker, I believe‑‑[interjection] Well, if
I am misquoting the Premier, he will certainly correct me.
Can I ask the Premier, has he, in fact, has the government
sought any legal opinion from counsel‑‑and there is counsel from the
government assigned to cover human rights issues‑‑to specifically
give advice on whether or not this would potentially qualify as a breach of
that act, Mr. Speaker?
Hon. Gary Filmon
(Premier): Mr. Speaker, I certainly at no time said that
the human rights act would not apply.
I stated my regret at the decision, my disagreement with
the decision, and certainly the human rights act is there and has various
provisions that might indeed be used in a challenge. Any Manitoban could put forth a challenge under
the human rights act that would be reviewed by the Manitoba Human Rights
Commission.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Speaker, again, for the First Minister,
he has indicated publicly here that obviously the government does not support
that decision.
Has the Premier communicated that directly on behalf‑‑because
obviously there is three‑party agreement in this House on that issue‑‑of
his government to the National Legion Council in the wake of this decision,
that this is a regrettable decision in view of his government?
Mr. Filmon: Mr. Speaker, I am informed that a complaint
has already been filed before the Manitoba Human Rights Commission, and that
that complaint is now being dealt with and the process will prevail.
I have not conveyed my views at this point to the legion,
but certainly have no hesitation in doing so.
Mr. Edwards: Finally, I would obviously, in view of my
former question, suggest that that would be an appropriate thing to do and
leave it to the Premier to follow up on his commitment.
Finally, to the Premier, Mr. Speaker, there was some
suggestion in the wake of this decision that certain provincial wings, regional
wings of the legion, would, in fact, be revisiting the question on a local
level where they felt that perhaps the majority in that particular area did not
agree with it because, of course, this was a national delegated convention.
Has there been any discussion with the Manitoba branch with
respect to whether or not they will be seeking to revisit this issue for this
particular region of the country?
Mr. Filmon: I have not had an opportunity to have that
sort of discussion but would certainly encourage the provincial representation
to make their own review of it and perhaps change the position that their
national organization has taken.
Private Personal Care Homes
Operating Agreement
Mr. Dave Chomiak
(Kildonan): Mr. Speaker, the minister has stated that the
government is doing a review of personal care homes and that he has set up a task
force to do that, and that means about 96 committees studying health care in
one form or the other, but who is counting?
Mr. Speaker, we welcome a review of personal care homes,
but we would ask the government to function much quicker. My question to the minister is with respect
to private personal care homes. Can the
minister advise this House whether the government has concluded an agreement
with the private personal care homes that would have them operate either
independently or arm's length of the provincial government?
* (1350)
Hon. James McCrae
(Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased the honourable
member would raise a question today about personal care in Manitoba, especially
since earlier today the honourable member's colleague and many others from the
Icelandic community and others in Manitoba joined with us at the groundbreaking
ceremony for the new Betel home, which is going to be built over the course of
the next year. That will provide care
for a hundred additional Manitobans and provide many, many health care jobs in
that part of our province.
The honourable member spoke of numerous committees, and I
certainly can acknowledge that we have numerous committees at work. I am glad the honourable member said that,
Mr. Speaker, because day after day he says we do not consult. Well, how can he come in here today and
complain that we have 96 committees in health care?
We have health care professionals of all kinds helping us
with health care renewal issues. We are
proud of that, and we are going to be listening to a lot of that advice. We have health care consumers involved in
this process. We have doctors, we have
nurses, we have technicians, we have union members, we have all kinds of people
involved in this process, and I am very pleased about it.
With respect to the honourable member's question about some
kind of an agreement with respect to proprietary personal care, I will take
that question as notice.
Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, the minister knows full well
there is only 6 percent representation by nurses on those committees and only 4
percent representation by consumers. In
fact, the Deputy Minister of Health, with his $4,000 salary increase, probably
is better represented on those committees.
My final supplementary to the minister: Will the minister, when he takes this
question as notice, confirm whether or not the government is in the process of
concluding an agreement or has concluded an agreement with private personal
care home operators that would see them function independently or arm's length
of government?
Mr. McCrae: Mr. Speaker, I can only repeat what I said
before about the operation of various task forces and implementation
committees, committees to provide good advice to government. We are pleased to have that input, and we
will take all of that input very seriously.
I think it is because we have done it that way that there is virtually
unanimous approval and support for the health care renewal program that we embarked
on in the spring of 1992. It is because
there was all of that consultation.
The honourable member cannot credibly come along today and
suggest that all of that consultation is for naught, because it is not. We are making very quality improvements in
our health care system in this province so that the people in the gallery today
and the people throughout Manitoba of the next generation will have a health
care system in the future, as opposed to the one they would not have if we
follow the advice of honourable members opposite.
I said I would take the honourable member's question as
notice, and I will do that.
Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, my final supplementary to the
same minister: The minister is probably
familiar with Mr. David Paskoe. Can the minister,
when he looks up this information and tries to determine what is going on in
the private care nursing homes, can he confirm whether or not Mr. Paskoe has
been hired by the private care nursing home operators to prepare a presentation
to government that would have private care home operators operate their own
homes with their own standards, arm's length from government?
Mr. McCrae: I told the honourable member I would take
notice of these questions, and I will do so, but I remind the honourable member
that a review that is looking at all of the changes in personal care in
Manitoba is underway. We expect that
review to complete its work and to give us the kinds of recommendations we will
need to ensure that the highest standards of safety achievable will be achieved
in Manitoba.
I remind the honourable member of the report put out by the
Manitoba Centre on Health Policy and Evaluation, however, that says that
personal care in Manitoba is of a very high quality, and I am very pleased to
be able to say that to all of the seniors and all of those who need personal
care in Manitoba and their families.
* (1355)
Louisiana‑Pacific Co.
Emission Controls
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan
River): Mr. Speaker, when the Louisiana‑Pacific
proposal was first announced, the Minister of Environment promised that he
would put in place guidelines that would result in a state‑of‑the‑art
plant with state‑of‑the‑art emission controls.
I want to ask the Minister of Environment why he has not
insisted that Louisiana‑Pacific install state‑of‑the‑art
pollution control equipment, namely regenerative thermal oxidization
incinerators, which the EPA has found to be much more efficient than the E‑Tube
emission controls which this government has allowed and which are being
replaced in the U.S. plants which are being refurbished.
Hon. Glen Cummings
(Minister of Environment): Mr. Speaker, the
member might not recall that The Environment Act that we are operating under
was introduced first by the members of the party of which she is part. It is very site‑specific and it is very
much dependent on information being provided at the Clean Environment
Commission. The recommendations and the
discussion that flow from those hearings determine the precise regulatory
format that we require the industry to operate under, given the site‑specific
requirements.
That is the process that we are entered into. Those are the requirements that we will make
Louisiana‑Pacific fall under. I
think she should appreciate that this is now going into a process that is open,
is public. If she has those kinds of
concerns, let her go there and say so.
Ms. Wowchuk: I can assure the minister that I will, but I
would ask this minister that he would show some leadership. This is an opportunity for this government to
set some standards that will be amongst the best in the country, in North
America.
Why will they not insist on and set guidelines in place
that will result in the best possible emission controls in this plant and be a
leader in this country?
Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, we will be setting the best
standards in the country, and we will be the leaders.
Ms. Wowchuk: I would like to ask the minister, will he
insist that the RTO equipment be installed in this plant, which controls much
more of the pollution; in fact, will eliminate 95 percent of the particles
material and 90 percent of the volatile organic compound, much more than the E‑Tube
equipment will remove? Will they insist
on that when the plant is finally built?
Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, I do not wish to reflect on any
member of this House, but I put my trust in the process we are embarking upon
where all these questions will be answered in front of the Clean Environment
Commission by the corporation. They will
either provide the correct answers or they will not operate.
Hepatitis C Virus
Blood Supply Tracing
Hon. James McCrae
(Minister of Health): Yesterday, the honourable member for Kildonan
(Mr. Chomiak) asked some questions about hepatitis C contamination in the blood
supply, and the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) kindly took the questions as
notice. I have a very brief response to
the honourable member.
Currently, Manitoba Health, through the Manitoba Advisory
Committee on Infectious Disease, will be discussing this issue at its June 24
meeting. We are awaiting the outcome of
a June 13 meeting being held by the Red Cross at a national level.
In the meantime, we are supporting the public health
message that individuals who have been transfused prior to 1990 should be
screened by their physicians to see if they are infected. This is particularly important if an
individual is unwell.
There is a national study being conducted by the Laboratory
Centre for Disease Control, and the results of that study are expected to be
available by July of this year. A
further policy will be forthcoming from Manitoba Health when these and other
consultations have been completed.
Legislative Building
Wheelchair Access
Mr. Gregory Dewar
(Selkirk): Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin by tabling
a letter requesting the Minister of Government Services to make the front of
this building accessible to wheelchairs.
My questions are for the Minister of Government
Services. Has the minister reviewed his
position concerning the construction of the ramp at the front of this
building? Will he meet with Manitobans
with Disabilities who are requesting him to change his position?
Hon. Gerald Ducharme
(Minister of Government Services): Mr.
Speaker, first of all, I think the member is asking me to ignore approximately
30 other locations throughout Manitoba that have no access, no access
whatsoever. We in '88‑89 started
that program, and we have established doing those types of programs that have
no access. This particular building has
two accesses to it.
To give you an idea, in 1988‑89, we spent $148,000;
'89‑90, $426,000; '90‑91, $864,000; '91‑92, we spent
$187,000; '92‑93, we spent $249,000 in this particular building; in '93‑94,
$181,000; and we are anticipating spending a further $792,000 again in '94‑95,
doing the buildings that have no access now.
That is the responsibility we have to make sure all our
buildings throughout Manitoba and Winnipeg have access, that access
requirement.
* (1400)
Mr. Dewar: Mr. Speaker, the minister failed to answer my
question. My question was, would he meet
with individuals who are concerned about this issue, Manitobans with
Disabilities? Will he meet with them and
explain, apparently, his position on this issue to individuals who are
requesting the minister to change his position on this issue?
Mr. Ducharme: Mr. Speaker, prior to the expenditure of
$181,000 on the building, '93‑94, we had full consultation with the
society for disabled Manitobans, as well as the Human Rights Commission. This all took place prior to the construction
to make sure that people in the gallery could come here, to make sure that we
looked after the ramp that was close to the many parking spots that are made
available to these people to make sure they have easy access in and out of this
building.
Mr. Dewar: Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate the minister
is saying no to these individuals.
On May 31, in answer to one of my questions, the minister
said this work was not just a repair, and I would assume that this work does
fall under the City of Winnipeg's building code by‑law. As such, why is he not making the front
accessible as any other builder or contractor in this province would be
required to do?
Mr. Ducharme: For the information of the member across the
way, there is no front or back to this building. It is east, west, north and south, and two of
them have accessible locations to this building‑‑two‑‑and
very, very nice access to the west side of this building, Mr. Speaker.
Child and Family Services
Psychiatric Services
Ms. Norma McCormick
(Osborne): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister
of Family Services (Mrs. Mitchelson).
I have been informed that there is a young girl, 17 years
of age, with severe psychiatric problems who had been sent out of province for
treatment when she became a young offender.
Child and Family Services brought her back to Winnipeg, and while she
was awaiting placement, she offended again.
She is now in the Remand Centre and has been there for several weeks.
While the minister may not be able to provide an answer
with the details of the situation, is it her department's policy to use the
Remand Centre as a holding facility for adolescents with severe psychiatric
problems?
Hon. Rosemary Vodrey (Minister
of Justice and Attorney General): Mr.
Speaker, again, I would not want to speak about any specific case, and any
remarks that I make should not be attributed to any case. However, where there is, as a result of
abusive or destructive behaviour, an inability for the safety of the individual
to maintain them at the Youth Centre, then, yes, they will be moved to a
facility in which we can look after that individual's need.
Ms. McCormick: My second question is for the Minister of
Family Services.
Child and Family Services brought this child back to
Winnipeg, and while she was awaiting placement with her mother, she re‑offended.
Is it the practice of Child and Family Services to send
troubled children who have serious psychological or psychiatric problems and
adolescent offenders out of province for treatment because Manitoba facilities
are inadequate?
Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson
(Minister of Family Services): Mr.
Speaker, as the Minister of Family Services, I do not believe it is my role or
within my ability to speak about individual circumstances and individual cases.
I would have liked the information or particulars that my
honourable friend might have brought to my attention in a manner in which I
could look into those instances and provide as much detailed information as
possible within my ability and under the legislation that I am bound by.
Ms. McCormick: My final supplementary is to the same
minister.
I will provide her with the information, but I would like
to know, in addition, why this child has not been placed in a more appropriate
setting, such as the special ward at Health Sciences, which is PX3.
Mrs. Mitchelson: Again, I must reiterate that I do not believe
it is within my mandate to talk specifics about any individual case, especially
on the child welfare side of things.
Mr. Speaker, I will endeavour, with any further information
that my honourable friend has, to investigate and ensure that appropriate
decisions have been made in the best interests of that child.
Building Products
Labour Dispute
Ms. Jean Friesen
(Wolseley): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister
of Labour.
Employees at Building Products have repeatedly indicated
their willingness to continue negotiations.
Could the minister report to the House what active steps he has taken in
the past year to bring the employer to the negotiating table and to seek an end
to a strike which is now entering its third year?
Hon. Darren Praznik
(Minister of Labour): Mr. Speaker, we appointed some time ago a mediator
to this particular dispute who has been in place and who has communicated with
both sides on a regular basis.
As I am sure members opposite would appreciate, in order
for mediation to work, there has to be a desire on the part of both parties to
want that process. To date, that has not
been the case.
Ms. Friesen: Would the minister undertake to investigate
the working conditions of the replacement workers at Building Products,
particularly the hours and the rates of pay, and would he report back to the
House?
Mr. Praznik: Mr. Speaker, the Employment Standards branch
regularly investigates complaints that are made with respect to hours of work
and conditions of employment. If a
complaint is made, we will undertake to make an appropriate investigation as we
would do in any other case.
Workforce 2000
Ms. Jean Friesen
(Wolseley): My final supplementary is to the Minister of
Finance.
I would like to ask him to explain to the House, or at
least to bring a response at a later time to explain why Building Products
received a Workforce 2000 payroll rebate this year. Could he tell us whether, in fact, that
payroll rebate training grant was used to train those replacement workers?
Hon. Eric Stefanson
(Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I will,
in fact, take that question as notice.
As the member knows, Workforce 2000 is directly under the
responsibility of the Department of Education, but there is an element, because
of the payroll tax credit system, that does provide some of the training funds. So I will take the particulars.
Wine Boutiques
Start‑up Costs
Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin
Flon): Mr. Speaker, more than a year ago, we on this
side put the government on notice that their intention to introduce specialty
wine boutiques would cause problems not only for the Manitoba Liquor
Commission, but for the taxpayers of the province of Manitoba.
Mr. Speaker, yesterday in committee, the minister
responsible acknowledged that they have now hired a consultant and are paying
the consultant some $25,000 to review the questions that were asked about a
year ago. Yesterday, as well, we
reviewed the Crown Corporations Council report in which they identify the fact
that the province is going to lose money as a result of the introduction of
specialty wine boutiques.
My question to the minister is, is the consultant going to
answer the question, how much money is this novel idea going to cost taxpayers?
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer
(Minister charged with the administration of The Liquor Control Act): Mr. Speaker, the member for Flin Flon had an
opportunity to sit through part of the committee earlier this week to review
the wine stores and the MLCC Annual Report.
I indicated at that time that government was aware that the MLCC had
employed an outside consultant, about which we had a chance to discuss some of
the details.
The consultant particularly is looking at the discount
rates at which the product will be passed along to these particular
entrepreneurs. As a result of that, they
are bringing back a position to the government, and certainly, as the
experience is in some of the other jurisdictions, if there is a modest increase
in the amount of product sold, there will be no impact to government revenue.
Mr. Storie: Mr. Speaker, in the paper today, we have one
of the people or a couple of people who are interested in wine boutiques
talking about the government dithering.
The government continues to dither, and this minister is compounding the
problem by refusing to answer the question.
The question, Mr. Speaker, to the minister is simple. Will the consultant be asked to identify how
much this is going to cost the government in lost revenue from the Manitoba
Liquor Commission to the Consolidated Revenue?
How much?
Mr. Gilleshammer: Mr. Speaker, I am sure if the member would
listen, his question had been answered.
I had indicated if there was a modest increase in the amount of product
that is being sold, there would be no impact to the revenue of the province.
* (1410)
Public Consultations
Mr. Jerry Storie (Flin
Flon): Mr. Speaker, one of the recommendations that
the Crown Corporations Council also made was the suggestion that this
consultant's report be reviewed thoroughly.
My question to the minister is, will we finally get a
chance to review in a public way both the recommendations and the report of the
consultant whom the government has hired and to have public consultation
hearings on this matter before the government finally implements something that
is going to cost the taxpayers money?
Hon. Harold Gilleshammer
(Minister charged with the administration of The Liquor Control Act): The member did not indicate in his preamble
that the report that was tabled from the Crown Corporations Council did endorse
the fact that government is asking an outside third party to take a look at
this.
I have indicated that we are anticipating that report from
the consultant in the near future, and certainly, we will follow the direction
given by the Crown Corporations Council.
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