ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

Winnipeg Jets Agreement

Information Release

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister.

Last year, when we were asking the government to make public all the information at the Public Accounts dealing with the operating loss agreement, the amendment to the operating loss agreement and the various proposals to deal with the Winnipeg Jets hockey team, the Premier stated in Hansard, and I quote: We will do better than presenting this to the Public Accounts. We will give the information to the public directly, so they can deal with it, rather than being confined to a partisan debate. We will take it all to the public.

Madam Speaker, we were quite concerned then that the government for a period of time kept everything silent and secret in terms of the various proposals, and only the day after the election did we find out the state of play of the various proposals to deal with the hockey team and the Winnipeg Jets and the operating loss agreement that this Premier had signed twice.

I would like to ask the Premier, why did he keep the proposals secret until the day after the election, and what has been the cost in terms of the overall purchase of the privately owned team to the public and the private owners for the government not involving the public at an earlier stage?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, the information with respect to the MEC proposal was made public as soon as it was available. The information that we were operating on was based on their original business plan which they changed a matter of days before it was made public after the election campaign. It was made available on a timely basis.

With respect to the costs to the provincial Treasury for undertaking the losses in the agreement, they were something in the range of $9 million of costs in picking up losses from the agreement that was signed in 1991, for which period of time the direct revenues to the provincial Treasury were in excess of $17 million, so a net gain of $8 million to the provincial Treasury by virtue of that agreement.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, the Premier did not answer the question. I asked what was the cost of delaying making that information public from May 1 on.

My supplementary question to the Premier is, how can the Premier create a loop of business people, be involved in amending an agreement and not be involved in what the discussions are in the loop and only make that public after the election?

Why was the public not involved in the various proposals that were going on until after the election campaign? Why will the Premier not table the amended and addended agreement from June 30 covering the operating loss agreements and all the proposals now that are before the lawyers across the city of Winnipeg? Why are those proposals not being made public in this House?

We are responsible for the capital costs of the arena in the public sector. We are responsible for part of the operating costs with our shares. We are also responsible perhaps for tax provisions. Why will the Premier not table all that information today in the Chamber?

Mr. Filmon: First and foremost, Madam Speaker, the information the member is seeking is information with respect to negotiations that are going on between private sector entities. They do not involve our side of the equation, which is to provide a capital facility. That is our side of the obligation.

In the past, the member has been critical of being involved in the operating costs and operating losses of the team. That is not part of our responsibility. That is being taken over by the private sector. All of the negotiations that are taking place now are with respect to their arrangements, not with respect to our side of the agreement.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, again, I ask the Premier to table the information, because if we could have purchased the team for $32 million before May 1, but because of delays of the provincial government, keeping this whole issue secret, the cost is going to be $32 million plus the private owners maintaining 22 percent of the shares, that is, the equivalent of some $15 million, the equivalent of all the money raised by the so-called grassroots campaign.

My question to the Premier is, why will you not table all the information in the House, the addended agreement which you were a party to before the June 30 deadline and the existing documents that are in play?

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, the member has answered his own question.

The fact of the matter is he did not want us to purchase the team and take responsibility for the operating losses. We have not purchased the team. That agreement with respect to the purchase of the team is being done between private sector owners.

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Winnipeg Arena

Provincial Funding

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

Yesterday, the Minister of Finance refused to provide information to this House on the scale of the tax expenditures involved in the Jets' deal while knowing that a proposal to buy the Jets had been prepared and forwarded to the current owners, which proposal certainly contains the data required to tell the House the scale of these tax expenditures.

Will the minister now provide this information? What are the tax expenditures implied in the current proposal which was forwarded to Mr. Shenkarow yesterday?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, I want to correct the member for Crescentwood. I am sure he, hopefully, erred unintentionally.

I did not refuse to provide any information to this House, because as I indicated to the member yesterday, the issue of whether or not contributions to the potential endowment fund, whether or not those contributions are deductible for tax purposes as a donation is an issue that is being dealt with between the private sector and Revenue Canada, which is an arm of the federal government.

Donations--Tax Deductibility

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): To the same minister: Will the minister now confirm to this House, as he apparently already has confirmed to the media, that he and his government now favour the granting of charitable status to the Jets memorial endowment fund?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, I hope the member for Crescentwood, only day two into our session, takes the time to do a little more research before asking these types of questions, because we did not offer any opinion on what the decision of the federal government might be.

It is a matter that the private sector is dealing with Revenue Canada on, whether or not contributions to that kind of a fund will be tax deductible. It is a matter within the jurisdiction of the federal government and Revenue Canada, and it is a matter they will be ruling on, I am sure, in due course.

Provincial Funding

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, will the minister then at least confirm the calculations which were quoted this morning in the Free Press, and he was also party to that interview, that show that the tax subsidy for the proposed $60-million endowment fund will be $9 million from the province, bringing the contribution of his government to this project to at least $46 million, 4.6 times the pre-election promises?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, we have indicated consistently that if an item qualifies as a donation for tax purposes, the approximate cost to the provincial Treasury is 15 percent of that contribution. The approximate cost to the federal Treasury is 30 percent of that contribution.

The member can certainly do the mathematics on any size of a fund that he so chooses, depending on where that endowment fund ends up and whether or not the matter is determined by Revenue Canada to be something that does qualify as a donation for tax deduction purposes.

Children's Hospital

Psychiatric Unit--Bed Closures

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

During the election campaign and lead-up to the election campaign, we saw a flurry of government announcements regarding health care, and, in particular, we saw a lot of bed openings at the Children's Hospital.

My question to the Minister of Health is, why now, after the election, is the government ordering the closure of the eight-bed psychiatric unit that was opened only eight weeks ago at the children's psychiatric unit at Children's Hospital?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, the honourable member, if he reviews the circumstances, will recall that there were a number of respiratory cases presenting at the Health Sciences Centre, Children's Hospital, at the time that the swing or standby beds, or whatever they are called, were opened. At that time, it was made clear that they were open for a specified period of time. They were opened because there was a need to open them.

Madam Speaker, the honourable member wants to suggest that we should have hospital beds there that are not needed. That is all right, but I do not think that any responsible hospital administration or government can do that when you consider the realities that we all face together.

Mr. Chomiak: Can the minister give us assurances today that the children who require psychiatric care will not be forced to wait in long lineups or be forced to go into children's medical beds, since they are now closing the eight psychiatric beds that they opened eight weeks ago just before the provincial election?

Will he give us assurances that those children will not have to wait in line and will get the service needed?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, that has been, is and will remain our policy.

Mr. Chomiak: If the minister still chooses to close these beds, will he give assurances and outline what specific alternatives he will put in place to provide community-based services or other services to these children who require psychiatric services, so they will not have to wait in line or be put in medical beds, as they have done in the past since this government started so-called health reform?

Mr. McCrae: Everything that we do in the operation of our health system will be with the patient in mind. It will be to be responsive to the needs that exist, and it will be evidence-based.

Family Maintenance Payments

Supreme Court Decision

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, my question is for the First Minister (Mr. Filmon).

Today, the Supreme Court of Canada reversed the judgment of the Federal Court of Appeal and ruled against Suzanne Thibaudeau. This is unfortunate for many Manitoban women and their children, since it means that the recipients of maintenance payments rather than the person who actually earned the income will bear the taxation burden.

My first question is, what action is the present government considering to remedy the effects of this ruling?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Acting Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I will take that question as notice on behalf of the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

Ms. McGifford: Madam Speaker, did the provincial government make any representation to the Supreme Court, and does the provincial government accept this decision as fair?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I will take that question as notice on behalf of the Attorney General.

Ms. McGifford: In order to alleviate the tax burden on custodial parents, will the government adopt our party's position and change provincial law, so that courts take into account tax implications when awarding maintenance?

Mr. Praznik: Yes, Madam Speaker, I can, as someone who has been through law school, advise the honourable member that courts do take into account tax implications when they are setting maintenance and making those decisions, but the specifics of her question, I will take as notice on behalf of the Minister of Justice.

Sex Offenders

Community Notification Committee

Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon).

Before and during the recent provincial election, the Premier touted the government's new community notification committee, which we were promised would review every high-risk sex offender well in advance of each offender's release from jail and then would determine whether there should be notification to the community.

Would the First Minister now explain to Manitobans why the committee has taken no action, has not even been informed of two high-risk sex offenders, who, we understand, have moved to Winnipeg in the last month?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Acting Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I will take that question again as notice on behalf of the Minister of Justice.

Mr. Mackintosh: Madam Speaker, it was the First Minister who was closing the jail doors--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member, with his supplementary question. Please put your question now.

Mr. Mackintosh: My question to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon), would the First Minister now confirm that the notification committee was just another election gimmick, as proven by this committee's first test?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I can tell the member opposite that this party in the election and in government has always been consistent and has been very strong on Justice issues and in wanting to ensure that Manitobans are safe on the streets of this province, unlike members of his party when they have had opportunity to govern or to put forward positions.

I will take the specifics of his question as notice on behalf of the Minister of Justice.

Mr. Mackintosh: Madam Speaker, my final supplementary is to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon).

Would he now assure Manitobans when this government will finally do something about Manitobans' safety and take some action with these cases, as promised?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, I can assure the member that this government and the Minister of Justice (Mrs. Vodrey) is very much committed to ensuring the safety of Manitobans and in taking very strong positions on criminal activity, and I know that many of the actions we have taken have done that with the opposition of the member for St. Johns who has not been supportive of many of those strong positions.

The specifics of his question, I will take as notice on behalf of the Minister of Justice.

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Winnipeg Air Command

Relocation

Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson).

Earlier this year, in the federal budget, it was announced that Air Command headquarters in St. James will be moved to Ottawa, costing Winnipeg hundreds of direct and indirect jobs, many of those in my riding of St. James.

My question is, what is the status of this relocation, as far as the minister is aware?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Speaker, again, that was a very difficult situation for the City of Winnipeg and the Province of Manitoba with the federal government's budgetary actions which would have a devastation as far as the Air Command and the jobs in the city of Winnipeg.

We are currently waiting on an update from the federal government and will report as that comes forward.

Ms. Mihychuk: My supplementary question is, what is the status of negotiation for using the $30-million Billy Bishop Building, which was opened just nine years ago and could be used to consolidate air force operations currently located in other parts of the country?

Mr. Downey: I thank the member for the question.

That was one of the options that was discussed. Our first desire, of course, was not to lose any jobs under Air Command. The option coming forward of the relocation of operational activities from four other centres is an option that we hope the federal members of this province can support us in, in going to the federal government, if given the opportunity, to advance that as an opportunity to fill the vacant facilities that will be left here.

Ms. Mihychuk: Why has this minister not put forward the same effort to save and get the hundreds of aerospace jobs in this province that they, this government, did to accommodate the ever-changing demands of the owners of the Winnipeg Jets?

Mr. Downey: Madam Speaker, the member could well be criticizing her own Leader and other members of this House who were part of an all-party committee who joined together co-operatively, in a nonpartisan way, to put together opposition to the actions by the federal government and request that they give consideration in a positive way that would encourage and, in fact, help the City of Winnipeg and the Province of Manitoba.

I am somewhat disappointed in her negative approach towards the work that her Leader was part of. I would hope she would speak to him and spur him on a little bit more.

Northern Manitoba

Infrastructure Development

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Speaker, there are many questions being asked in northern Manitoba about the credibility and the priorities of this government that has gone from a $10-million commitment to an arena in Winnipeg to save the Winnipeg Jets to $37 million plus whatever tax breaks will be involved.

It particularly comes from communities that do not even have the most basic of services such as sewer and water, many of which are under the jurisdiction of the Department of Northern Affairs--so the Premier (Mr. Filmon) gets that straight when I ask this question.

I would like to ask the Premier how he can justify finding this additional money for a professional hockey team and an arena in Winnipeg and at the same time not provide funding for sewer, water and other basic services in northern communities.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Northern Affairs): Madam Speaker, I find the question from the member most interesting, because in my brief tenure as Minister of Northern Affairs, I have had the privilege of attending the opening of new water facilities in a number of communities.

I have to ask, in the many years in which the member for Thompson has been an MLA representing northern Manitoba, why, when northern Manitoba has had New Democratic Party MLAs in government for many years, we are still having to put in basic water and sewers in a number of communities when that party in government did not make those communities a priority.

Mr. Ashton: With a supplementary, and again, to the Premier (Mr. Filmon), why has this government failed throughout its mandate to sign and negotiate a northern development agreement, when we are now seeing that some of the funds that will be going to the arena in Winnipeg will be coming from development agreements?

Why is this government not signing a development agreement in northern Manitoba that will bring sewer and water to those communities?

Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, let us put this into perspective again around northern Manitoba.

The member for Thompson may like agreements, northern development agreements. I remember working for the federal government, for a federal minister, on the Northern Development Agreement. I remember how many stores changed hands under that agreement and very little got done.

Let us remember, we have a new representative for Flin Flon. I hope he takes note of the millions of dollars that this government, that this party, committed to ensure that his constituents have jobs in that constituency.

Let us look at the Northern Flood Agreement that this government has brought along to almost completion when it sat with nothing done for years of New Democratic Party rule. Let us look at the many projects that have been done in the last seven years and the ones that we intend to complete over the next four, and I think the record speaks very loudly on accomplishments, although the members of the New Democratic Party will never admit it.

Mr. Ashton: Madam Speaker, my final supplementary is again to the Premier (Mr. Filmon).

I would like to ask the Premier, since he is now indicating that he has some interest in northern Manitoba, at least according to Winnipeg Sun reports, that he has actually even travelled to northern Manitoba, when will he make a commitment, as we now enter the next century, to have money allocated for sewer and water in communities that do not have that service, instead of a brand new arena to save a professional hockey team?

Let us get our priorities straight, Madam Speaker.

Mr. Praznik: Yes, Madam Speaker, it is a matter of getting priorities straight. I can tell this House that when the member opposite was in government, those priorities he talks about today were not being done, and it took this party in government to move towards doing them.

I can tell this House, as well, that on a steady annual basis with the resources available community by community, we are getting done the jobs that New Democrats failed to do in northern Manitoba in all the years they were in government in this province.

Flood Compensation

Statistics

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Natural Resources.

Thousands of residents living in communities along the Assiniboine River have anxiously watched over the past month as water levels rose, damaging their land. Last month, in fact, the Premier (Mr. Filmon) toured some of affected areas, and, even so, I was surprised to hear in the throne speech that the flooding challenge has been successfully met by the provincial government.

What are the predicted damages of flooding expected to be, and what percentage of costs will be picked up by the provinces?

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, I would like to inform the member it was not only the Premier who was on that flight. It was also myself, as well as the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey), as well as the member for Roblin-Russell (Mr. Derkach) who was on that flight, and we had a first-hand glimpse or look at what was happening out there with the flooding.

The government has set up a deputies committee that is basically looking at working with the concerns of the flood area. The Manitoba Disaster Assistance Board is out there already working. The last meeting we had, I think, was yesterday with the committee meeting that we had, and the municipalities have given this government accolades for moving as fast as they have.

I might inform the member that the flood is not over yet, so in terms of establishing how much damage there is, once the waters have receded, we will be on top of it. I am prepared, at that time, to give a figure as to exactly what has happened.

Mr. Struthers: Madam Speaker, when, then, will the minister be able to give a definitive figure on provincial contributions and how long will this process take?

Mr. Driedger: Madam Speaker, as soon as the floodwaters are down, we will have established a figure. I will then make it available.

Coverage Levels

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Is the minister reviewing the limits of coverage compensation, which in many cases will be just a fraction of the losses in property damage?

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, I would like to inform the member that this is not the first time Manitobans have experienced a flood. We have various things in place that deal with it on a step-by-step basis from within government with the various departments.

This flood was not a surprise to us. We anticipated this already early on, prior to spring breakup, that we were going to have water problems in a certain area. We had everything in place, as we have done in the past.

As this thing evolves, and finally comes down to the point of some conclusion, I will be able to make available the kind of money that is available to the individuals who are affected, either through the Manitoba Disaster Assistance Board, through the EMO, the cost-sharing arrangements we have with the feds, and the obligation that the provincial government, the Premier (Mr. Filmon), has given to the flood-prone areas that said, basically, we would be there as a province to try and assist them.

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Point Douglas Constituency

Bank Closures

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Urban Affairs concerning the closure of a second bank in Point Douglas, causing great difficulties for seniors and many other people in this area.

Has the minister met with the representatives of the bank to attempt to delay or postpone this closure, which is the second bank in one year in Point Douglas?

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Urban Affairs): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the honourable member for Point Douglas for my first question.

In regard to the banking in his constituency, I am not aware that there is another bank closed in that constituency. I will do some evaluation, take the question as notice and possibly get back to the member as soon as possible on the ramifications and some of the things that might be affected, not only the constituency but his neighbourhood.

Winnipeg Development Agreement

Employment Creation

Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): Madam Speaker, for the minister, the bank is closing on June 2, and it is the Toronto Dominion Bank.

I would like to ask the minister, since so many jobs are being lost in the inner city that residents are unable to buy homes or take out loans, will the Winnipeg Development Agreement begin operation before more banks are closed in the inner city? Try and speed up that Winnipeg Development Agreement to get more people in the inner city working so that we can use the banks here.

Hon. Jack Reimer (Minister of Urban Affairs): I can rest assured with the member that jobs and the creation of jobs are of a high priority within this government, and it is shown that the best type of work program is good jobs within a community.

I can possibly meet with the member, and we can try to discuss ways of meeting with the community if there is problem in trying to get a resolve towards some sort of direction, not only for the lost jobs within the bank, but also how it will affect the ripple effect throughout his community.

Mr. Hickes: Madam Speaker, why has this government not acted to address inner-city needs such as deteriorating services and closure of banks, instead of putting millions of dollars into the construction of luxury boxes at the new arena that banks and other corporations can use for tax write-offs?

Mr. Reimer: Madam Speaker, I think, as mentioned previously, the creation of jobs and the fact that this government has made it a high priority in trying to make available the availability for people to bring forth their ideas to develop the community, to be involved with the community on an ongoing basis, is something that I think is an indication of our government towards trying to be involved with a positive direction for economic growth.

In the association of his community, we can work towards some sort of meeting, if he is agreeable. We can try to get it resolved towards some of the problems that he is addressing.

Agriculture Industries

Diversification

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, in the last few months, Manitoba farmers saw $85 million vanish from the economy with the loss of the Crow rate. This devastating loss follows four consecutive years of cuts in the provincial Agriculture budget.

Although the government refused to put pressure on the federal government when they eliminated the Crow benefit, they did promise farmers relief in the form of a $10-million agriculture diversification fund in the election.

I want to ask the Minister of Agriculture, now that the campaign is over, can the minister explain why there is no mention of this vital farm support program and why there is no mention of a provincial agriculture strategy in the provincial throne speech?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, let me be very clear. Thanks to the work done by my predecessor and the support that he had in this government, a very significant budget increase was afforded the difficulties that farmers and agriculture face.

I will be more than pleased, during the discussion of my Estimates, to indicate just how significant the financial contribution of the GRIP program and other support safety-net programs were to the farmers of Manitoba at a time of need.

Madam Speaker, specifically to the questions about ongoing support, that is I think an appropriate discussion to have during the discussion of my Estimates. There have been movements, a broadening of the whole farm safety programs that is being advanced by Minister Goodale from Ottawa, expansion of the NISA program to different livestock producers currently not now covered under that program.

So I am more than prepared to discuss these issues with her in the discussion on the Estimates of the Department of Agriculture.

Ms. Wowchuk: I was asking the minister specifically about a program that was announced in the election.

However, I want to ask the minister now what steps they will take to ensure that farmers have the educational training and supports they need to diversify, since we have seen a cutback in all agricultural programs. Farmers have to have the ability to take courses. Will this government take some action to ensure that farmers also have supports, not only hockey players?

Mr. Enns: Madam Speaker, this question affords me the opportunity to solicit support from the honourable member for Swan River to ensure that what she asked for does in fact happen.

Firstly, there are many agencies, including the Department of Agriculture, that are providing that kind of extension work and education work, that are preparing our farmers for the changes in agriculture.

Among the specific requests the farm community has is that they are allowed to be participants in some of this extension work and some of this research work, notably through check-off legislation that is being requested, for instance, by the canola producers of the province of Manitoba that have made that crop the cinderella crop, in fact, one of the bright spots as even reported on the front pages of the Free Press not so long ago about the importance and significance of that crop to Manitoba.

So, Madam Speaker, Manitoba farmers will face the challenges, will meet them and will see a brighter future for agriculture in the coming years.

Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, the minister should remember that the cinderella crop was developed--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member, please put your supplementary question now.

Ms. Wowchuk: Will this government give assurances that they are prepared to support research for farmers as they diversify so we can further crops such as the cinderella crop that was developed through provincial and federal funding for research?

Mr. Enns: Madam Speaker, yes.

Immigration Agreement

Status

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): It goes to show, Madam Speaker, if you are patient and persistent--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Does the honourable member have a question?

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, there was a Memorandum of Understanding that was signed by this government last year, and that Memorandum of Understanding was in hopes of trying to achieve a bilateral immigration agreement, something that is very important to Manitoba. It contributes to our social fabric, our economic fabric. It is important that Manitoba achieve that bilateral agreement. We were supposed to achieve that bilateral agreement by March 1.

My question to the Minister responsible for Culture, Heritage and Citizenship, can he give us progress on the bilateral agreement? When can we anticipate that that bilateral agreement will be complete?

Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship): I am pleased to have my first question from the member for Inkster.

I can tell him that the officials of this department are in Ottawa today meeting with federal officials. We have been trying to move forward with this program. We are not getting a lot of co-operation out of the Liberal government in Ottawa. In fact, some of the agreements we thought we had have been changed with the introduction of a head tax, with the introduction of bonds, things that the federal minister seems to be going out on his own to do. We are not in favour of some of the direction that the federal government has taken on immigration.

We are hopeful that we can get an agreement, but we are not getting a lot of co-operation from the federal bureaucrats at this time.

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Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I am interested in the bilateral agreement. I am not--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I remind the honourable member for Inkster, I think he knows the rules full well. Supplementary questions, there is no postamble or preamble.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I am wondering if the minister can indicate to this House what this government believes is the optimum number of immigrants, classifications of immigrants that Manitoba can sustain in any given year. Can the minister indicate to this House today what that number is?

Mr. Gilleshammer: The immigration agreement that we are attempting to negotiate with the federal government deals with a lot of different aspects, and I look forward perhaps to Estimates when we can get into this discussion.

We are trying to negotiate the levels and the mix of immigrants that would come to Manitoba. We want to have more say in the recruitment and selection of immigrants. We want more support in dealing with the settlement issues. We have always stated that Manitoba wants their fair share of immigrants up to 4 percent of the numbers who are coming into the country.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I would ask the minister to reconsider the approach possibly in terms of what he is arguing for. You should not be arguing for--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Would the honourable member for Inkster pose his question now, please.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, would the minister not agree that it does not make sense to argue for a percentage of the overall population of immigrants coming to Canada? What the minister should be arguing for is what number, what is Manitoba's optimum number--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Please pose your question.

This is neither a time for debate nor postamble.

Mr. Lamoureux: To the minister, would the minister not agree that it makes more sense to ask for what is the optimum number of immigrants that Manitoba can sustain in any given year?

Mr. Gilleshammer: We want to achieve the levels of immigration that we have historically had over the last 10 years. We are trying to work with a federal government which continues to put roadblocks in the way for immigrants to come to this country. I would urge the member for Inkster to talk to some of his federal cousins, particularly those who represent that area of the city.

I know the Prime Minister does tend to punish some of the members who do not agree with him, but I would suggest that perhaps Mr. Pagtakhan could use his influence. You could talk with him to see if perhaps the federal minister could be a little more understanding and instead of imposing a head tax and an exorbitant bond that discourages immigration to this country, the member perhaps could do something very positive to see that there is more immigration to Canada and to Manitoba.

North Winnipeg YM-YWCA

Funding

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): The north branch of the YM-YWCA of Winnipeg is an important recreation facility in our community. It has a nursery school, daycare, life skills program and Night Hoops. It serves many low-income people, thanks to a generous subsidy from the United Way.

Unfortunately, it is being closed or supposed to be closed on June 30 of this year. I would like to ask the First Minister--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Would you quickly pose your question.

Mr. Martindale: I would like to ask the First Minister--since he grew up in the north end, he may have been a user of the North Y--if he is prepared to find some money to help keep the doors open. He found $37 million for the Jets. Can he find $200,000 for renovations at the North Y?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, yes, indeed, I did frequent the North Winnipeg Y when I was much younger. In fact, I probably honed my basketball skills there several summers playing endlessly day after day after day.

Unfortunately, the funding for facilities such as the Ys is one that comes under normal community-based support, memberships and all of the various things that go into that support facility such as the Y.

Madam Speaker, I will take that question as notice and see if there are any instances in which funding is provided for facilities such as regional Ys. I will get back to the member when I determine whether or not that is something that has ever been done in the past.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.