Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister.

During the election campaign in March of 1995, the Premier promised major capital investments in the province of Manitoba, including major and significant investments in the Health Sciences Centre, as part of a health capital project. The Premier specifically promised funds for the William Avenue project which would include the adult and pediatric surgical operating rooms and intensive care units at those hospitals. In 1995, an accreditation survey released after the election campaign stated that the operating rooms were in horrible shape and that new operating rooms were absolutely necessary and that construction must proceed in terms of the ongoing accreditation of those programs and facilities so vital to Manitobans.

I would like to ask the Premier, when is he going to keep his election promise and proceed with the capital commitments to the operating rooms that he made during the election campaign?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, as has been said on numerous occasions subsequent to the 1995 election, in looking at our budget for the succeeding two years, two years in which we will be experiencing a reduction in transfer payments from Ottawa of about $230 million annually spread over a two-year period, we had to evaluate all of our government's activities and particularly commitments in the area of capital expenditures. That course coincided with the commencement of the regional health authority system of governance of our hospital system which did require us to take a look at priorities on a regional basis and to see whether or not commitments that were being made on an individual institution-by-institution basis would fit in with a greater plan looking at health care on a much more holistic basis, on a regional basis, and so we are in that process now.

The capital that was in place, the capital intentions that were in place prior to the freeze on capital spending are being evaluated, and I expect that the Minister of Health (Mr. McCrae) will have some indications--just as we have already indicated that one of the priorities that is clearly evident on a province-wide basis is the Cancer Treatment and Research Foundation capital works--that has been announced--because it clearly is in keeping with any plan of future development province-wide. There will be other aspects that will undoubtedly include activities with respect to some of our major institutions, whether that be the Health Sciences Centre or Brandon General Hospital or other places. But after, and only after, we do this re-evaluation and priority-setting in concert with the regional health authorities will we be able to come out with any further information. I hope that will not take too long.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, the Premier knows that during the election campaign, in his election promises of March of 1995, he stated--and I guess we should have been very careful when he made any statements in the campaign--that all the cuts that the federal government had proposed or incorporated in the promises, and we have costed them out, but of course, he has a different story here today on the Health Sciences Centre capital, the telephones, you name it, a different story.

In light of the fact that we tabled the memo last May in this Chamber, talking about the operating rooms and the significant impact that those deteriorating operating rooms were having on the quality and quantity of health care here in the province of Manitoba, the Premier said in June that the announcements on capital would be made within a month when the government made its comprehensive announcements on the urban capital projects. Well, the Minister of Health made his comprehensive announcement, so-called, establishing the superboards and the roles of the urban hospitals on August 20 of 1996, and he talked about the sophisticated future of the Health Sciences Centre and the need for operating procedures, surgical procedures and transplant operations.

Does the Premier really believe that having fruit flies, leaking ceilings and deteriorating conditions at the Health Sciences Centre is the kind of sophisticated future that the Health Sciences will have? Why does he not proceed with his election promise that he has made time and time again?

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Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): I guess when you argue all sides of an issue all the time, the time comes when you get caught playing that game, and the honourable member, the Leader of the Opposition, just got caught again.

He and his colleagues advocate one day for the maximum use of community hospitals and the capacity that exists in our operating rooms in our community hospitals. Having won that argument, as evidenced in our announcement of August 20, he decides, well, maybe I can win again because maybe everybody will forget what was announced on August 20 and I can come out in October and argue in favour of greater capacity than ever at Health Sciences Centre. Well, maybe the honourable member needs to realize and have it brought home to him that you cannot have it all ways.

The people of Manitoba, through their consultations with the government of Manitoba, made it crystal clear that, let us use the resources that we already have that are in good shape and make sure that they are properly utilized before we get carried away building all kinds of new capacity. We now have a much better idea of what we need at Health Sciences Centre and at St. Boniface Hospital and all the various facilities than we had prior to the announcement on August 20, and work will go forward from there.

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, we actually believe the government is capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time; it can plan for the community hospitals and for the major surgical wards. This either/or after the election campaign--[interjection]

Well, maybe the Premier wants to stand up and answer why he keeps breaking his promise time and time again. His word means nothing to the people of this province. He can heckle all he wants. His word means nothing.

In light of the fact that there are fruit flies in the operating room; there is a report from the Health Sciences Centre; the Premier made an election promise to deal with the Health Sciences Centre; surgery was cancelled at least three days last week; open-heart surgery was cancelled three days last week, I would like to ask the Premier, what is he going to tell the accreditation team that is going to visit Winnipeg, after their 1995 report, next month, in terms of his promise to build those operating rooms for all Manitobans as he had promised?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, aside from the fact that the question of the Leader of the Opposition has been asked and answered--he did refer in his preamble to his second question to coronary artery bypass surgery--I point out to the honourable member that for Health Sciences Centre in 1995-96, 941,000 additional dollars were approved for that particular program, and in '96-97, this additional funding was incorporated into the global budget of that facility.

The result of the increased funding over the years for these programs at Health Sciences Centre, for example, in '93-94 there were 163 coronary artery bypass surgeries; in '94-95, there were 196 and in '95-96 there were 256--each year up, up, up. So funding is certainly being made available, and I mentioned yesterday that the surgeries overall at the two teaching hospitals for coronary artery bypass surgery were up from 523 to 729 to a minimum of 1,000 this year--very, very significant increases for Manitobans.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam Speaker, from time to time all MLAs hear tragic stories about situations that occur in nursing homes. Most of these can be attributed to individual nursing home difficulties at one time or the other, but I have spoken with close to a dozen individuals and had an opportunity to see documentation about very serious problems occurring at Holiday Haven private nursing home.

Is the minister aware of any investigation going on in his department concerning Holiday Haven, and has he received a letter specifically alleging that there was a case of management abuse of a patient and that, as recently as two weeks ago, the fire department phoned that nursing home about problems with a potential fire hazard? Is the minister aware of any investigation in his department?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, on an ongoing basis, the personal care home requirements of Manitobans are monitored, and when issues arise that call into question the standards or the ability for personal care homes to abide by the standards that are set, those are issues that are always on the desk of the Department of Health.

Madam Speaker, it was not that long ago that a review was conducted into the operations of personal care homes throughout Manitoba to have a look at the requirements that are there. We have a combination in the province of some older buildings and some brand new ones that are all supposed to meet certain standards. It is the responsibility of the department to ensure that our standards are being met, and if there are infractions they are looked into by the department and corrective action is taken.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, is the minister aware that Holiday Haven Nursing Home has a large number of falls of residents, broken bones and a high rate of skin breakdown?

Mr. McCrae: Well, if there is information additional to that information that is in the possession of the department, we would welcome if the honourable member has something new or some fresh information that we do not already have. We would be very happy to have that information so that we can make sure that the residents in our personal care homes receive the care to which they are entitled under our system and to ensure that no facility falls below those standards that are expected of personal care homes in Manitoba.

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Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, is the minister aware that both the Public Trustee, Deer Lodge hospital and other institutions are concerned about patient care at Holiday Haven?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, the honourable member has asked these questions now three times in a row, and I have said that my department makes it its business to ensure an ongoing monitoring of personal care home operations throughout the province. If there are further specifics with regard to this particular personal care home, we would be very pleased to inquire into them and look further into the allegations.

Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): A new question.

Madam Speaker, will the minister today commit that he will launch a full-scale investigation of Holiday Haven, one that includes legal protection for employees of not only the Department of Health but of Holiday Haven Nursing Home when they tell their stories, and will he guarantee that these people who tell their stories will not face any kind of retribution from the department or management?

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): I would appreciate knowing if the honourable member has information that the department is not in possession of. I would suggest that it would be his responsibility as well as any other Manitoban's responsibility to bring those issues to the attention of the authorities.

Mr. Chomiak: Madam Speaker, the minister did not guarantee that--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Kildonan was recognized for a supplementary question.

Mr. Chomiak: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

When I forward documents to the minister and when the minister has the opportunity to review documents in his department's possession, will he guarantee that employees of the Department of Health and employees who work there, who speak to this full-scale investigation that ought to be launched, will have no retribution or no job action taken against them if they tell their stories?

Mr. McCrae: Madam Speaker, without engaging in theatrics as the honourable member has done today, something he does not do all the time but he does resort to it from time to time, there are safeguards in place for people in our province. Our province has a system of personal care homes that works under certain requirements and certain standards and if those standards are breached, there are ways to investigate those things. I will extend every protection that is in my power to extend to people who want simply to do what I want and what the honourable member wants, which is to provide the best possible care for people in the care of personal care homes in Manitoba.

Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Health): I understand that there are significant powers in the legislation that we have on the statute books of Manitoba to allow the government the powers to do what needs to be done to provide protection to people and to ensure that their care does not fall below certain standards, but while the honourable member is making demands that government exercise the power that it has, why does he, on the other hand, Madam Speaker, argue against every single power bestowed upon the government in Bill 49?

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Speaker, in recent days we have seen the degree to which this government will go in terms of MTS and ignoring conflicts of interest with the MTS financial advisory group, 161 Bay Street, Toronto, Ontario, but in response to a question yesterday we also heard the Premier suggest that "the government listened to many, many different people and undertook analyses of a whole variety of different perspectives on the issue. The policy decision was made as a result of a composite of all of the information available to us."

I would like to ask if the First Minister could explain why his government received the document from the MTS financial advisory group on April 30, 1996, and announced the decision to sell MTS, two days later, on May 2.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I have talked in the past about, for instance, advice that was received or information that was received from the Crown Corporations Council in which they attributed to Manitoba Telephone System a high-risk category, in fact the highest risk circumstances of any of our Crown corporations because of the $800 million of debt that it was carrying, the highest debt-equity ratio of any telecommunications company in Canada, along with the fact that over 70 percent of its revenues were in competition with the private sector. I talked about the fact that we had made many other analyses and I refer--there was an article in the Free Press during the period of time, in the months leading up to that final decision, that the issue was that there was all sorts of strong rationale for privatizing the telephone system.

The issue was whether or not in doing so we could get a reasonable price for the people of Manitoba. What the brokers' analysis showed was that we could get a reasonable price for the public of Manitoba, the people of Manitoba, and therefore the decision was straightforward. That is why we made it.

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Mr. Ashton: Well, Madam Speaker, I am still trying to get some clarification of the Premier's statement about the many, many people they talked to.

I want to ask the Premier if he can also explain why we have received a response to our Freedom of Information request in terms of what studies MTS has, in terms of privatization, why the response from MTS states that MTS has not had any studies done on privatization and is not using any studies for the privatization of MTS. How does he explain why even MTS was not involved in the privatization decision?

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, Manitoba Telephone System is a corporation that operates to provide telecommunications services to the people of Manitoba on as broad a basis as possible, as efficiently as possible, as cost-effectively as possible. The decision as to whether or not they ought to be doing so in private ownership or public ownership is not that of the corporation to make; it is that of the government that represents the ownership of the corporation. It is the ownership, not the management, that would make that decision, and that is a decision that we as a government have taken.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Thompson, with a final supplementary question.

Mr. Ashton: Madam Speaker, as a final supplementary, I want to get some clarification again of the Premier's words. Now he is saying--and I want to ask the Premier to clarify this. Is he saying that MTS should not have been involved in the decision of privatization, but he has no problem with them now running a $400,000 advertising campaign on privatization? Which is it again? Which version of the Premier's word are we supposed to believe on the issue of MTS? Are we supposed to believe his original promise not to sell or are we supposed to believe his words now trying to explain how they made the decision to sell MTS in two days?

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, I want to repeat, not that I fear that members of the public will believe anything that he says, because he has proven to lack credibility on so many occasions, but again--

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Ashton: On a point of order, Madam Speaker, if the Premier is to be concerned about anyone believing words, it should be his words, and I would like to ask him to withdraw his comments about myself and perhaps start for once telling the truth to the people of Manitoba.

Hon. Jim Ernst (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, on the same point of order, I listened carefully to what the member for Thompson indicated in his point of order, and then I mused for a moment about it to determine whether or not he in fact contravened his own point of order by standing up. I think he asked the Premier to withdraw for something that he just referred to the Premier as. So I do not think he has a point of order at all; in fact, he tends to abuse Question Period on a regular basis by standing up on points of order.

Madam Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Thompson, I would remind both the honourable First Minister and the member for Thompson that no one benefits from name-calling and from accusation and innuendo. I would remind all honourable members to pick and choose their words carefully.

Madam Speaker: The honourable First Minister, to quickly complete his response.

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, as I have said many times for the benefit of the member for Thompson, and others, and I said at the news conference at which we announced the privatization of the Manitoba Telephone System, the fact of the matter is that in April of 1995, when asked whether or not we planned to sell the Manitoba Telephone System, I said, no, I did not see any reason why. Subsequent to that, when we received reports, for instance, that indicated that over 70 percent of its revenues were in competition with the private sector, that with an--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable First Minister, to complete his response.

Mr. Filmon: --$800-million debt and the highest debt eq guaranteed by the people of Manitoba and a debt-equity ratio that was the highest of any telco in Canada, Madam Speaker, there was obviously a reason why we ought to take a look at that option and we did and concluded in the end that it was in the best interests of the people of Manitoba to be able to commercialize Manitoba Telephone System and to ensure that it would have an even stronger future than it does today.

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Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for MTS.

I would like to table a document for the House that lists the directors of a telecommunications company called MG Communications. MTS owns 20 percent of this company and has a senior level manager, the director of marketing, listed as a director. I do not raise this issue as an accusation of impropriety on the part of either the government or MTS but rather would like to give the minister the opportunity to clear the air. To his credit he has always stated that he takes any charge of conflict of interest very seriously and with the pending privatization of MTS, I believe Manitobans deserve an answer to my questions.

Can the minister explain why MTS invested in a long-distance reseller and installed its director of marketing as a company director after the conflict-of-interest problems it had with the bankrupted NetLink communications?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister responsible for the administration of The Manitoba Telephone Act): Madam Speaker, excuse me, I think the member has identified what really is going on in the telecommunications industry today. There are niche markets, there are opportunities that need to be addressed by strategic alliance. MTS has taken the maximum ownership in this particular company, some 20 percent, to allow them to have rates across the U.S. border that will allow business to come and be done in Manitoba. It is an opportunity to expand the business opportunity for MTS in a strategic alliance with a particular company. Any other elements about conflict of interest, I will take as notice and respond back to the member.

Mr. Gaudry: I thank the minister for his answer.

Will the minister confirm or deny that MTS entered into a long-term contract with MG Communications to provide long-distance time for Manitoba call centres, and will these contracts form part of the KPMG prospectus?

Mr. Findlay: Madam Speaker, I think I have already answered that in the first answer, indicating that, yes, they entered into a strategic alliance with a 20 percent ownership to allow long-distance business to happen in Manitoba so there is net use of the system in Manitoba and jobs created in Manitoba as opposed to in the U.S.

Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Will the minister confirm that on May 24, 1996, Faneuil was behind $750,000 in its phone bill to MTS, and will the minister guarantee today that Faneuil is continuing to pay its bill to MTS on time?

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister responsible for the administration of The Manitoba Telephone Act): I can confirm that my understanding at this stage is that they are completely paid on every account with MTS.

Mr. Stan Struthers (Dauphin): Yesterday in this House, the Minister of Natural Resources--and my question is for the Minister of Natural Resources--he confirmed that he and the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Enns) met with Ken Sigurdson and others as stated in the affidavit tabled by the member for Crescentwood (Mr. Sale).

Can the minister confirm that between he and the Minister of Agriculture, four meetings occurred with this group and that he gave this group permission to export their fish outside the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation?

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, categorically I deny that statement.

Mr. Struthers: Madam Speaker, is the minister contending that those who made the statements in the affidavits are lying, and will he testify in court to that effect?

Mr. Driedger: When required, I will make my necessary statements.

Mr. Struthers: Can the minister tell the House whether it is the normal practice for the Minister of Natural Resources to advise people to break Sections 3, 9 and 13 of his own Fisheries Act and virtually all of Part 3 of the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation Act?

Mr. Driedger: Totally irresponsible statements with not one shred of truth in them.

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Yesterday the Minister of Natural Resources released a statement saying that he never told Kim Sigurdson and others to fish illegally. No one has ever alleged that he did. In fact, those involved--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member for Crescentwood, to pose his question now.

Mr. Sale: In fact, those involved never alleged that. What they said was that Pascall Bighetty had a valid licence to fish Sisipuk Lake. What the individuals claimed and still claim is that the ministers involved agreed to let them fish and process fish unhindered for export, contrary to the Freshwater Fish Marketing Act.

My question to the Minister of Natural Resources is, what was the substance of the discussions he had with Mr. Sigurdson, Mr. Bighetty and others regarding the taking and export of fish from Sisipuk Lake?

Hon. Albert Driedger (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, in my meeting with these people in my office at that time the discussion took place on the basis of their wanting to take and catch fish and process them. Basically, the request was whether they could fish in Lake Sisipuk and move the fish to the fish plant in the Interlake. At that time I said I have no objection if they got permission from the Pukatawagan Band who are basically the people responsible for that Sisipuk Lake. If they got permission from them, I would allow them to catch fish and transport them to be processed at the Interlake fish plant out there.

The discussion also further to that went on about whether they could export, and that is not within my--I never gave any commitment or authorization because I could not. That is under the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation. It is federal legislation, and I told them at that time that there was no way that they could take and export that.

Mr. Sale: If nothing that was being contemplated was illegal, can the minister indicate why he thinks it was necessary for there to be four different meetings with two different cabinet ministers if all that was being discussed was already legal and acceptable?

Mr. Driedger: There never were four meetings related to this subject. I met with Mr. Kim Sigurdson at a previous time when he was concerned about what was happening at Island Lake and the exclusion from Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation at that time. I supported that request between the four bands that were out there, which ultimately got approval from the federal minister. It also had been requested for the Pukatawagan area. That request was denied by the federal minister. But we never had four meetings related to this issue.

Mr. Sale: A new question, Madam Speaker. I want to quote from a letter which Mr. Enns, Mr. Driedger and the Premier (Mr. Filmon) have. It is from Pascall Bighetty. I am quoting now: I have been recently asked to defend Mr. Robert Gaudry and Mr. Omer Coutu. Both have been charged with offences under The Natural Resources Act. They have pleaded not guilty to these charges for a variety of reasons and contend that they were given permission by both of you to fish within their legal quotas and export their catch. Minister Enns had meetings twice in his office last summer where he assured Mr. Sigurdson, Mr. Aitken, Mr. Gaudry and myself that the Natural Resources officials would not interrupt or impede this venture.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. Would the honourable member please pose his question.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, I want to pose my question quoting from the letter. The letter indicates that Minister Driedger is quoted as saying--

Madam Speaker: Order, please. I recognize it is your first question, but we do have guidelines relative to time limits and the member has well exceeded the time limit permissible. Would the honourable member please pose his question now.

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Mr. Sale: Would the minister tell the House why in this letter he is quoted as saying, "If it's O.K. with Harry it's O.K. with me."

What was okay with Harry, Madam Speaker?

Mr. Driedger: Madam Speaker, in my last answer I clarified exactly the position of what happened at that meeting and the commitment made, and anything beyond that is not true.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, according to our rules, I should have tabled this document since I quoted from it, and I would like to do so.

Madam Speaker: I thank the honourable member for Crescentwood.

Mr. Clif Evans (Interlake): Madam Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Rural Development, and my questions concern Woodstone Technologies, which yesterday filed a bankruptcy and insolvency claim at the Court of Queen's Bench.

As the government well knows, we have always supported Grow Bonds. However, we share concerns over Woodstone management which led the Finance minister to order an audit of the company last March, and we understand that the Minister of Rural Development has now had the Provincial Auditor's Report in his office for over two weeks.

Will the Minister of Rural Development release the Auditor's Report to the public before creditors vote upon the company's offer, so they will have full benefit of the audit information?

Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development): Madam Speaker, first of all, I thank the member for the question. Certainly, there is no question about the fact that Woodstone Technologies are having their fair share of difficulty with regard to restructuring their finances. Indeed, there was a proposal made before the courts yesterday to restructure the indebtedness of the company in the hope that not only will the company be able to continue but, indeed, the jobs there will be preserved for the long term for the residents of Portage and area.

It is also true that we did request the Provincial Auditor to take a look at Woodstone and to give us his recommendations. This is not the first time that we did this. Back in 1994 my staff asked the Provincial Auditor to come in and do the very same thing to assure us that the processes that were undertaken were as they should be. At the present time, I understand that staff and the Provincial Auditor are going through the Auditor's Report, and when I receive it on my desk I will be more than happy to table it.

Mr. Clif Evans (Interlake): Madam Speaker, I wish to table the proposal by Woodstone.

Has the province agreed to the company's proposal to write off Woodstone's debt to Grow Bonds in exchange for preferred shares in the company, which is in this proposal?

Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development): Madam Speaker, with regard to my last response, I should just correct that last statement I made. The Auditor's statement will be tabled by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson), not by myself.

Secondly, with respect to the proposal, there are 21 days in which this proposal will be considered by the creditors.

At this point in time, we have just received the proposal, as of yesterday, and certainly we will be paying attention to it. No position has been taken at this time.

Mr. Clif Evans (Interlake): Madam Speaker, does the minister have confidence in the current management due to the past track record of Woodstone and will further protect public investment, and can he maintain that the province's investment in preferred shares will not result in further loss if he so chooses to go that way?

Hon. Leonard Derkach (Minister of Rural Development): Madam Speaker, I should say, first of all, that the province's guarantee to the investors in Grow Bonds is still there, and that should not be in any way perceived as the province not living up to its commitment with regard to the guarantee. That is in place and it will be honoured, but let me assure the member that it is in all of our best interests to see that Woodstone Technologies continues. They have a technology that I am told has a considerable value to it.

Madam Speaker, we want to ensure that that company is managed in an effective way so that the losses are no longer incurred and that the jobs that are present in that company in Portage will stay in Portage for the benefit of the community and the people who work in that plant.

Hon. Glen Findlay (Minister of Highways and Transportation): I would like to respond to a question taken as notice yesterday by the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Driedger) from the member for Rupertsland (Mr. Robinson) regarding Churchill, the Bay Line and the current process that CN is involved with in terms of setting up a regional rail system in the North.

I want to tell the member that the Manitoba government's position has been very strongly in favour of finding an economic and commercial solution to the further operation of the rail lines in northern Manitoba and the Port of Churchill. We have been involved in various initiatives in that context in terms of the task force, in terms of supporting Gateway North Transportation and their proposal to CN.

I am very confident at this stage that CN is in the negotiation process with interested parties that will lead to that long-term economic viability for the lines in the North and the use of the port. It will lead to more and more economic activity in the North, more and more north-south trade, so I can tell the member this is a very important point in time if the negotiations are going on, but I and my department have a high level of confidence we will see a very successful solution.

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, the Minister of Agriculture has stated many times that he wants to see our hog production double in this province. In the past, Manitobans have met the demand to increase hog production and they will if the demand is there.

We understand that this government is trying to attract hog operations from Holland to bring their operations into Manitoba. I want to ask the Minister of Agriculture if he can tell this House if the purpose of Bill 68 is to open Manitoba borders to allow foreigners to buy up land in Manitoba to set up their hog operations in this province.

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, the modest amendments being proposed in Bill 68, The Farmlands Ownership Act, you know, ones that we can discuss at committee, are meant and designed solely to make farmlands available equally to all Canadians. They take the Manitoba restriction out.

I consider a Canadian from Ontario, Alberta or British Columbia being every bit as much of a Canadian as I am from Manitoba, and that is the limit to the amendments being proposed.

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Can the Minister of Agriculture tell this House whether Bill 68 will open the door for people from other provinces and foreigners to buy land and then have the opportunity to have access to the elk that this government has captured and said that they would protect for Manitoba farmers?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, I want to assure the honourable member, and again it is my hope the government House leader will--that we will have Bill 68 referred to committee shortly so we can discuss the details of the bill more appropriately at committee stage, but there is no more to the amendments to the farmlands ownership bill that are contained therein.

Issues that she raises with respect to hog production from the Netherlands or elk purchases are exercises in fantasy. We welcome inquiries from around the world to look at the exciting things that are happening in agriculture in Manitoba but certainly it is not being spurred on by any modest amendments on Bill 68.

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Ms. Wowchuk: Can the minister tell us why he will not leave in place the legislation that protects land for Manitobans, rather than opening up the doors and driving up the price of land and restricting Manitobans from expanding, as we have seen when the government has made exemptions and allowed foreigners to buy land in this province?

It has driven up the price of land and restricted our Manitoba farmers from purchasing the land.

Mr. Enns: Madam Speaker, as my colleague the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Downey) suggests, he is yet to see a single acre leave Manitoba and nor have I. I want to assure all members of the House our land is strong and safe, and it shall stay here.

None of the restrictions with respect to foreign ownership are changed in the act, only those interested to come and farm in Manitoba and meet the conditions with respect to landed immigrant status, and they have to be vetted through this board, the Farm Lands Ownership Board. None of those are being changed, I wish to assure her.

Madam Speaker: Order, please. The time for Oral Questions has expired.