* (1350)

Introduction of Guests

Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have this afternoon thirty-six Grade 6 students from the Nordale School under the direction of Mrs. Carol Hill and Mr. Neil Jackson. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for St. Boniface (Mr. Gaudry).

Additionally, we have nine visitors from the International Centre, Tourism Program under the direction of Ms. Julie Cushing. This group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Broadway (Mr. Santos).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.

ORAL QUESTION PERIOD

Flooding

Sandbag Availability

Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the First Minister, and again I would like to thank him for his statement today.

Madam Speaker, people have been concerned since the adjustment on the forecasts about the lack of sandbags in a number of communities since this Sunday forecast had been changed by three feet. Apparently the R.M. of Morris is out of sandbags, the R.M. of Rhineland, the R.M. of Franklin, Ritchot is short on sandbags.

I would like to ask the Premier: What is the status of sandbags? He noted in his statement that there were some coming from Fargo. I have heard there are some coming from Edmonton. Can the Premier please advise us of the situation in rural communities dealing with sandbags and sandbag shortages?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Delivery of 1.4 million sandbags was received around noon today from Edmonton, another delivery from St. Boniface Bag was made available first thing this morning of about 400,000 sandbags, and another order from St. Boniface Bag is available as of Friday of about two million sandbags.

Certainly, this will far exceed any request we currently have and should leave us a great deal more for anticipated future needs.

Mr. Doer: Some of the communities that we have been listening to and talking with are concerned that the sandbags will not get to them before their roads are washed out.

Can the Premier please advise us of the timing of those sandbags and particularly the rural communities that have run out of sandbags and whose roads are being washed out? They feel very worried to wait a little bit later that that will affect dramatically their transportation options.

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, I cannot confirm the allegations of the lack of sandbags or concern about--in many cases, I might say, the requests must come through the local municipalities. I know that yesterday in my discussions with people in local municipalities, the judgments are being made by the local co-ordinators, emergency plan co-ordinators and municipal leaders, and it may well be there are plenty of sandbags that are sitting there and choices are being made with respect to allocation at local levels, which we support.

We believe that sometimes--well, in fact, we were in discussion with people who talked about hoarding of sandbags by particular, either individuals, areas, communities, whatever have you, and it is very difficult for us to superimpose our judgment on those local situations. So what we have to do is ensure that we respond to the requests from the local co-ordinators and the local municipal leaders. We are confident that we are able to do that. My only advice to the Leader of the Opposition and any others who hear these kinds of things would be perhaps to do a little further investigation to ensure this is not just a local issue.

* (1355)

Mr. Doer: Perhaps we need another means of dealing with that. Last evening, for example, many of us were on Scotia Street, and we often would run out of sandbags. Quite often, in fact, we were waiting an hour at a time for sandbags which had, I think, a bit of a dampening effect on volunteers.

Is there any way in which we as MLAs when we hear about these problems, wherever it is, whether it is in Winnipeg or in a rural community--is there anybody we should be contacting on the provincial level? Is the EMO working with the civic officials? Is there any way we can take our information, check it out and follow it up so that people on the line feel there is a way of checking it out on behalf of the volunteers who are trying to move those bags? This was in a situation where the water was lapping right at the base of some of those bags on Scotia, and it was quite worrisome last night for all of us there, the hundreds of people who were volunteering.

Mr. Filmon: Certainly, Madam Speaker, EMO would be the place to call. There is a central number through which everything should be co-ordinated. I would say as well that within the city of Winnipeg, again, the provincial government is not imposing its priority choices. To the best of our knowledge, the City of Winnipeg has not run out of sandbags, so what we may have is an allocation problem and sometimes there is a communication difficulty.

I heard somebody call in to an open-line show this morning saying they have been trying to get through to the local municipal engineer, when clearly there is a number to call that co-ordinates all the activities, and there are people in place who are intended to co-ordinate the activities. There is no question that nobody could get hold of the local engineer with all the demands that would be on that person's time, and that would be wrong to be attempting to make that call. Yet this person insisted that is who he wanted to talk to to satisfy the situation.

There are central numbers both at the city level and at the provincial level. Our best advice would be to go to the central EMO number and the central City of Winnipeg number, which I heard given over the radio. These are the things that I think we should be advocating to everybody is go to the central authority and let that person then have the request allocated to the right person. They have a very good management plan in place, and I believe that all they have to do is follow the management plan and it will be carried through.

Flooding

Livestock Carcass Disposal

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, as a result of snowstorms and flooding, people in North Dakota have suffered tremendous losses and some of those losses have been faced by farmers and their livestock herds. Thousands and thousands of animals have been lost, and many are now in the flood waters that are moving toward Manitoba.

I would like to ask the minister responsible for emergency measures: What plan has been put in place to ensure the collection and disposal of these carcasses to ensure that there is not risk of disease spreading or contamination of water?

Hon. Frank Pitura (Minister of Government Services): Madam Speaker, the question from the honourable member with regard to the dead livestock carcasses is a very important one, and it is an issue that yesterday we were briefed on. There is a committee established between the provincial Department of Health, the Emergency Measures Organization, the federal Department of Agriculture, and Manitoba Agriculture to put in place a strategy which would be targeted at what to do with the dead carcasses if they are not going through the system and they become dislodged or whatever in terms of being able to clean up the problem.

Ms. Wowchuk: To the same minister: Can the minister indicate what steps have been taken to move livestock from the flood areas and farms in Manitoba to ensure that we do not have the same problems here? Will his government step in to move livestock in areas where farmers refuse?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, I can just inform the House and the honourable member that, specifically with the problem of dead livestock that may come down to us in the flood waters, arrangements have been made with our largest rendering firm, the Rothsay people, to handle all of the livestock. They are the rendering company that is equipped to handle dead stock and have the equipment to winch them out of riverbanks or wherever they may be found. Certainly, you know, I am reminded by my colleague the Minister of Health (Mr. Praznik) that we want to do everything to ensure this does not add to the already serious environmental issues that the flooding waters bring with them.

My department is working extended hours with all of the livestock producers. A good number of the livestock have been marketed or are being marketed even though they are not always at optimum age or weights for marketing. There is some ongoing concern about some of the specific facilities, particularly with poultry. Unfortunately, the laying hens, you cannot move them that easily to do otherwise, but the Department of Agriculture is working extended hours to work with the individual producers.

* (1400)

Agricultural Equipment Storage

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Given that many farmers are in preparation for spring seeding and have their chemicals and fertilizers on their property, can the Minister of Agriculture or Emergency Measures give us an indication of what steps have been taken to give farmers direction to ensure that these products are properly stored or moved off property that is at risk of flooding?

Hon. Harry Enns (Minister of Agriculture): Madam Speaker, as the Premier (Mr. Filmon) indeed indicated in his statement, all responsible parties at the municipal levels and certainly within the Department of Agriculture have been working in a great deal of detailed advance work that included moving grain out of the valley in late January and February with the co-operation of the Canadian Wheat Board and the railways. It certainly included, again, our extension staff in ensuring that particularly chemicals not be allowed to stay in harm's way that could then cause difficulties, not unlike the kind of advice that the natural gas people are providing to ensure that all of those functions are properly shut down or shut off prior to flood waters overtaking them.

Flooding

Floodway Capacity

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Madam Speaker, thousands of volunteers have been working long hours in preparation for the coming flood waters in the Red River Valley. Fortunately, in past floods, the city of Winnipeg has had the benefit of the floodway to protect the lives and property of residents living in the city. Residents of east Transcona bordering on the floodway are apprehensive about the floodway's ability to handle the excessive water flows that are projected to be coming towards us.

I want to ask the Minister of Government Services to confirm the comments of the Water Resources officer who made a comment in the media this morning that stated that we are facing a one-in-200-year flood.

Hon. Frank Pitura (Minister of Government Services): In response to the member's question, I think that statement probably is close to being fact, that it is a one-in-200-year flood.

Mr. Reid: Will the minister also confirm that the floodway itself was constructed to handle a one-in-160-year flood?

Hon. Glen Cummings (Minister of Natural Resources): Madam Speaker, regardless of the centuries or the decades involved, the redundancy that was built into the floodway and the control gates and all of the structures that are associated with the protection of the city, using that system does significantly exceed even the very high levels that we are expecting today. Of course, when we are dealing with the enormous forces of nature, one can never take anything for granted, but the volumes to which it has been constructed are significantly in excess of what we believe is coming.

Earthen Dike Construction

Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Since there has been a revision of the level of the flood waters coming towards us from Friday to Sunday, can the government advise what steps are being taken by EMO or Water Resources to construct earthen dikes protecting those homes in those communities such as Transcona that are bordering on the floodway? What steps are you taking at this time in case those flood waters do exceed the banks of the floodway?

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I just want to be absolutely certain that the member for Transcona does not leave on the record that the floodway could not handle the capacity.

Last evening I was at the floodway intake and asked the engineers who are in charge of the floodway about the prospects and the probabilities. To give him some indication, the current flows that went through Grand Forks were 110,000 cubic feet per second at the maximum. That will be added to somewhat as it comes north, and their current expectation is about 130,000 cubic feet per second. The floodway itself is capable of taking in excess of 100,000 cubic feet per second. They are currently expecting that they will divide it almost equally and that there may be 75,000 cubic feet per second go through the floodway and about 65,000 or 60,000 go through the city of Winnipeg. But they have more than adequate capacity, and there would be no need to be concerned about overflows from the floodway or anything of that nature. I want that to be absolutely clear.

Autopac

Privatization

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Madam Speaker, I have a question on another matter, a very important matter for Manitobans, and that is the future of Autopac.

The Conservatives have never really accepted Autopac. They wore black armbands when it was established in the early 1970s. Sterling Lyon tried unsuccessfully to privatize it in the late 1970s, and even three years ago when they brought in no-fault insurance, they did it in a way that shafted many recipients. They took the good concept of no-fault and have left many people right now suffering. Now we have the Insurance Bureau of Canada running a poll on privatization. After MTS, Manitobans are justifiably worried.

I want to ask the Premier if he will do what he did not do on MTS and guarantee the people of Manitoba that he will not privatize Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation either in full or in part without first ensuring the people of Manitoba have their say through an election.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I just want to say that I read that article that was put together by a reporter in the Winnipeg Free Press, and I was shocked at the combination of circumstances that led to what I thought was a particularly misleading headline saying that we are studying Autopac. The member should know that at the time of the introduction of no-fault insurance, one of the conditions we made was that we would do a review of the operation of no-fault, period, paragraph, and that is exactly what the appointment of Mr. Uskiw as a review person is for. It is part of the act, and we are fulfilling the mandate of the act, nothing else. The way in which that article was concocted to mislead this as to being a review of all of Autopac under public ownership is absolutely false. We have no intention of doing that, and I want the record to be clear.

Mr. Ashton: Madam Speaker, that was not my question. Indeed, I will be asking about the review of no-fault, which I will be doing in a supplementary.

I want to ask the Premier again, because the fact is the Insurance Bureau of Canada, those publicly minded individuals who either want an increase in commissions from 5 percent currently to 12.5 percent to 20 percent or the privatization of Autopac, are conducting a poll right now. Manitobans do not trust this government on privatization. I want to ask the Premier what I asked him in the first question: Will he please guarantee that he will not sell off MPIC like he did with Autopac, either without putting it first to the people of Manitoba in a general election or a vote of the shareholders, the people of Manitoba?

Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, I think that the one thing that Manitobans do not trust is the way in which the New Democrats politically manipulated and mishandled Autopac. In fact, it was an issue in the 1988 election campaign that contributed to the devastation of the New Democratic Party because of their former minister shredding records, because of their political setting of the rates with increases that were intended to be in excess of 24 percent and all of those issues in which they just about brought that corporation to its knees, and we had to restore its credibility and restore it to good management. That is what Manitobans expect from us; that is what we will continue to provide them, is an Autopac that serves their needs well with high levels of service and the most reasonable rates in Canada.

* (1410)

No-Fault Insurance Review

Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): If the Premier once again will not put on the record a guarantee to Manitobans he will not sell off Autopac, will he then explain why they chose the route of a political payoff in the appointment of the review commissioner? Why, given the very serious concerns--[interjection] Well, Madam Speaker, the individual involved is one of the major contributors to the Conservative Party, surprise, surprise. I do not know if he plays golf with the Premier as well on top of that, but I want to know why they did not appoint an individual that could deal with the very serious concerns that have been expressed by many victims. There are hundreds of people in Manitoba who have been shafted by the Conservative government when they brought in no-fault, a good concept, and did it at the expense of many of the people who have been injured in automobile accidents.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I find it difficult to accept that the members opposite do not accept a former New Democrat minister of this House who served here for 20 years, I believe 16 of those 20 years in the cabinet of the New Democratic Party, and they do not think that he is impartial enough to be able to review Autopac. He is a former minister responsible for Autopac, and they do not think he is qualified to review it.

I think, to his credit, he has recognized that there is good government in this province, and if he supports this government that should not be a reason why he has to be rejected as a commissioner. The fact of the matter is he does have the experience, he did serve in this House for 20 years. We do not hold it against him that he was a New Democrat. I do not understand why they hold it against him that he has seen the light and he recognizes good government.

Flooding

Safety Concerns

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Education.

Along with spring, we get a lot of young people that are playing outside in the streets throughout the province, in particular in Winnipeg, in Portage la Prairie, which was demonstrated yesterday, and there are a lot of safety concerns that are there. I am wondering if the Minister of Education can indicate if she has sent any sort of correspondence to the school divisions or any sort of notification so that we do get the kids being told of the dangers of playing around the sewers. What might look like a safe surrounding is not that safe, and given the reports we have had coming out of The Maples in particular this morning--if the Minister of Education has done anything to that effect.

Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, I thank the member for the question. The deputy minister is meeting, now is probably just finishing up a meeting with senior officials from the various stakeholder organizations, superintendents, trustees, teachers, school business officials, et cetera, co-ordinating a whole series of actions surrounding the dangers of the waters that are now flowing over Manitoba. That will include a whole series of items, including the safety of students, their continuing education, school closures, et cetera.

So I thank him for the question. It is a well-motivated one, and I want him to know that those discussions are being done in a co-ordinated way with the leaders in education right now.

Military Resources

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): My supplementary question is either to the Deputy Premier (Mr. Downey) or the Premier. Yesterday, the Deputy Premier indicated that the military was in essence on call, that there were several hundred that were out there. I am wondering if we can get some sort of indication from the government as to when does he intend on having more military personnel being involved in the process.

Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, yes, we have the assurance of the federal government, and I believe that the Minister responsible for National Defence is in the province today to review the situation on his own. We had senior officers from Edmonton, from the Land Forces Command in Edmonton in the province over the last while, and they have actually set up a temporary command post here to ensure that they will be able to co-ordinate an instant response to all of our needs. As an example, there was a request from Emerson, and it was responded to in less than 24 hours with about 100 people currently in Emerson, about 100 people currently in the R.M. of Ritchot.

We believe that they have relatively instant access, say within 24 hours, to about 1,500 armed forces personnel should they be required, and more will be made available if we exceed demand for that requirement. So we do not anticipate a problem, and we deploy them through Emergency Measures Organization as the Command Centre. A request comes in from the local municipal jurisdiction to EMO, they turn to the military and access the resources, and the system is in place to respond to it. I do not anticipate that we will run short of personnel. It is just a matter of the chain of command taking its effect.

Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I would ask if the Premier would see to it that in fact we get maybe some military personnel involved in some of the potential security measures, whether it is from places that have been evacuated to monitoring or watching over some of the dikes, in particular for safety problems. Does he feel there is a role for the military to play with respect to those types of issues based on security?

Mr. Filmon: Again, quite honestly, I accept the advice of the member opposite, but that is not something the Premier should be commanding. There is a chain of command, and there are very, very experienced people in place, and there is an accepted emergency management plan that everybody is aware of. The security is in the hands of the RCMP. In fact, when I was in Emerson, I discussed that with the mayor. Essentially, that will be a ghost town with the RCMP and their security system. They will, I believe, access some military personnel as part of that effort, but they will need specific people who will be able to address it if, for instance, pilot lights went out in furnaces, electrical difficulties.

So they will have people of all different skill categories around as part of that and they will be, in effect, in charge. Once the community has been abandoned and is living outside the ring dike, there will be emergency personnel under the co-ordination and command of the RCMP, and they will access military personnel if they require them.

Health Privacy Act

Consultations

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, it is not often that this side of the House cites Alberta as a positive example, but today I note that when the Alberta government decided to bring in a health privacy act, they sent an all-party committee throughout the province to meet with the public and hear their presentations. By contrast, this government circulated a discussion paper to a select number of stakeholders and asked for responses. The news for the minister, of course, is that all Manitobans are stakeholders with regard to their private and confidential health records.

I want to ask this minister: Why the secrecy? Why are you so intent on shutting Manitobans out from this process? Why is it not open, public and consultative?

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, first of all, I am somewhat surprised at the point of view that the member takes because what I have done is something that is actually somewhat unusual for the process in Manitoba. First of all, the stakeholders committee, this is not the first time that they have been involved in the process. They have been involved in it from the very beginning. They are involved in it in the development of the system. They are involved in it in the development of privacy, and what we have done with this particular draft is taken a draft legislative piece back to the stakeholders who worked on it from the beginning to ensure that the legal drafts of this particular bill are reflective of the advice that they gave us. That normally does not happen in the development of most legislation.

Once we are of the view that that draft is reflective of their advice and any other policy decisions are made, we will bring it to this Legislature and this Legislature will hold public hearings after it has passed second reading. So, Madam Speaker, this is a very open process in our own Legislative Assembly and with what has been done to develop the bill so far.

Ms. McGifford: Madam Speaker, I would understand that normally the public would be consulted prior, as well.

* (1420)

Draft Legislation Request

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): I want to ask the minister, since the Premier promised cutting-edge legislation and since the public has been excluded from a secret process, if he would consider releasing his draft legislation as a white paper so that Manitobans might respond to this legislation which will affect the lives and rights of all Manitobans.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, again, from the New Democrats, exaggeration which does not, I think, lend itself to good public debate. This is not a secret process. Since when is sharing information with the Manitoba Association of Registered Nurses or the College of Physicians and Surgeons or other members that represent in a formalized way stakeholders, that that is a secret process? When we released that draft, we indicated they should clearly go back to their organizations and have that consultation.

When we as a government want to consult with organizations--well, the former Minister of Health flags the Manitoba Association for Rights and Liberties as being one of those organizations involved. This is a very good way of getting, I think, input on a very important piece of legislation from people who represent a wide variety of views and spend a great deal of their time studying these issues, and we went to that group first to develop the principles on which the legislation would be based. We have had it drafted; we have brought back; we will introduce it in this House, and it will have extensive debate and public review in this Assembly before it is passed. That is the essence of the Manitoba legislative process.

SmartHealth

Postponement

Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, again, I flag the Alberta example. I want to ask the minister if he will do the sensible thing, if he will put SmartHealth, that is the collection of health care information including personal medical records, on hold until a health privacy act has passed the scrutiny of this House and the stakeholders, in this case the people of Manitoba.

Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I have said very clearly in this Assembly, I believe the former Minister of Health during his time in this office has said the same thing, it is not our intention, our plan or in any way do we want to have the SmartHealth program operational until privacy legislation has been passed by this Legislative Assembly, and part of that process of passing it is public debate, public review, public hearings through our legislative committees, and ultimately this Legislative Assembly passes judgment on the legislation. I can tell the member that the operation of that SmartHealth program will not take place, will not be implemented until this House has passed judgment and provided for privacy legislation. I have told the member that before, even if she does not remember.

ManGlobe

Partnership Agreement

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, my question is to the Deputy Premier. In the July 14, '95, minutes of the ManGlobe steering committee, Duncan Jessiman, a private lawyer, reports that, quote, he was asked by the province to see that this deal gets done, unquote, and gives a target for signing the multilateral agreement of August 11, '95, just 28 days later. It is further noted that MTS will, quote, not likely require a board decision to sign the multilateral agreement.

Will the minister tell us who in the government directed Duncan Jessiman to, quote, see that this deal gets done, and will he release a copy of the multilateral agreement?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Madam Speaker, the research and development project which the member refers to, known as ManGlobe--which by the way is still operating with some 12 people working and has just brought on a new investment individual and group--I said to the member yesterday that I would check as to whether or not Michael Bessey had been involved in the initial stages or in the program. I took the question as notice. I am informed by the department that in the initial stages Mr. Bessey did have some work that he did, which I have no difficulty with. I am not aware as to any directive from anyone that the member is referring to.

Michael Bessey Role

Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): A supplementary to the same minister is this: Would the minister at this point endeavour to detail the involvement of Mr. Bessey in this project, flesh it out a little bit, give us a little more detail?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): Having observed the member for Elmwood for the number of years that I have been in here, it might take a considerable amount of time to explain to him. This whole issue may be better dealt with in Estimates so that we can spend a lot of time pointing out that it is a research and development project which will benefit the people of Manitoba.

Mr. Maloway: My final supplementary to the same minister is this: While the minister is doing his research, could he come back to this House and tell us how much Duncan Jessiman was paid by this government for his work on the ManGlobe project? Could he also tell us how much Mike Bessey was paid for his work on this project?

Mr. Downey: Madam Speaker, again, the member for Elmwood never ceases to amaze me. [applause]

That is probably the biggest applause he has ever gotten in this Legislature. Mr. Bessey was paid by the province and is available in the Public Accounts if he wants to check that out. If he needs a little help in going through Public Accounts, we could probably get someone to help him in explaining it to him.

Secondly, I would take the question as notice as it relates to Mr. Jessiman in any charges that may have ensued from that work.

Tourism

Advertising Contract

Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): The Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) and the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism have both indicated by not answering that the low bid on the contract given to Brown and Biggar in two separate contracts was not Brown and Biggar.

We have asked before. Will the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism tell the House today by how much was the contract given to Brown and Biggar communications--two separate contracts, two separate companies--not the low bid?

Hon. James Downey (Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism): The information that has been provided to us and I am providing to the House is that the contractual arrangement was for $140,000 to the two companies. That is what we have told the House, and that is what it is. [interjection] Well, that is what the answer is.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, I will try to be clearer for the minister.

By what amount was the contract awarded to Barbara Biggar, Biggar Ideas and Brown Communications for the promotion of tourism in Manitoba not the low bid among the 14 or so companies that were cited by both the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism as having bid on that contract?

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, as was indicated on Friday and was indicated again I believe yesterday in this House, on the basis of cost and quality, Brown and Biggar--

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Stefanson: I will repeat again for members opposite. On the basis of cost and quality, out of originally some 15 submissions, short-listed down to three, these two firms were deemed to be the most appropriate to provide the service.

* (1430)

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, will the Minister of Finance simply table a list of the bids on the contract, not necessarily with the names of the companies bidding but with the indication of what the bids were and the indication of how much the winning bid was? A very simple request.

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, we go through thousands of bids annually. We provide the information to this House, to the public. This was an open process. Some 15 firms submitted proposals for this. Two firms were deemed to be the most appropriate on quality and cost. The total fee as outlined between those two firms is $140,000. I believe that compares to a cost back in 1992 of close to $300,000, so we are certainly getting good value for the services being provided to the citizens of Manitoba.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Crescentwood, for one very short question.

Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, on a new question. We have watched over the last little while contracts being awarded on very dubious rationales: Rimer Alco getting a contract on a two-year bid which was marginally cheaper than the company that was strongly and unanimously recommended on a three-year bid at a $70,000 savings.

Will the Minister of Finance act to restore the confidence of Manitoba companies in the bidding process in this province by releasing a list of those who bid on this project and showing the amount by which the awarded contracts were higher than the low bid?

Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, the last people we need any advice from in terms of restoring confidence of the bidding system are members opposite. We have a very comprehensive system that allows for open tenders and an open-bidding process on most of the contracts offered. We have also established with the process usually a review committee that goes through an analysis of the qualifications of people bidding.

So it is a very comprehensive process that we have put in place, I am sure unlike any process that was in place under the previous administration.

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.