Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have this afternoon, 36 visitors of the 66th Air Cadets Squadron from Thunder Bay, Ontario, under the direction of Mr. Scott Cameron.
On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you this afternoon.
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Advisory Committee Report
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, my question is to the First Minister (Mr. Filmon). A school trustee in rural Manitoba just recently stated that she felt that they were in the Titanic and that the Education minister was in another boat sailing by with the radio turned off. That really illustrates what we are hearing across Manitoba from a number of trustees both in and outside of Winnipeg.
The government received in November of 1997 an advisory committee report. An advisory committee made up of trustees, parents, teachers and administrators from the department has received that report.
I would like to ask the Premier: was he apprised of what was in that report, and why did his government not follow the advice of their own advisory committee in dealing with the future of public education and the opportunities for our young people in this province?
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, on an annual basis, the minister's advisory committee will provide us commentary on each year's funding aspects to the division, so we very much appreciate the advice they give us. The advice is, in some cases, acted upon and in other cases not, depending upon our own circumstances. Last year, as you recall, we introduced greater flexibility to school divisions in dealing with 20 percent of their categoricals, and this year, as you know, we were able to indicate at least what the floor would be for funding for the province again to assist in multiyear planning.
This year's problems that the member referred to in the quote from the trustee from Brandon were due to assessment, reassessment and declining enrollment, and I have met with that particular board to discuss their situation. They now recognize that they will be getting $256,000 which they had not realized they could incorporate this year, which is going to be a great help to them, and we are looking at reassessment phase-ins for following years, again through the advice of the advisory council.
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Madam Speaker, it looks like the minister's radio is turned off when it deals with her own advisory committee or report. It looks like that trustee was right on in their assessment of this minister. The advisory committee report, and this is two years running, condemns the shift on taxation to property tax base and says for this year, for the '98 school year, that we should not have increases in property taxes to pay for education, that those increases should come from the general revenues of the Province of Manitoba. Now this committee is made up of assistant deputy ministers in the minister's department, parents, trustees, superintendents, and when we look at the Beautiful Plains School Division getting an 11 percent tax increase on property taxes, we look at the Kelsey School Division, we look at Transcona, we look at Winnipeg School Division No. 1, obviously this government is not listening.
I would like to ask the Premier: why do you continue to shift the burden onto the property taxpayers, and why do you continue not to listen to your own advisory committee's recommendations?
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, I believe in Friday's Question Period the Minister of Finance (Mr. Stefanson) gave a very reasoned response to that very question that the member has just posed to this side of the House.
I have to indicate that many of the school divisions that this year are feeling the impact of reassessment faired extremely well under previous years with the same formula. Trustees have indicated they do not wish to see the formula changed. For example, in Portage la Prairie where it talks about an increase in the rate, what they are talking about in terms of dollars is about $26 a household. Those divisions that have this year experienced a high impact of reassessment, as I indicated, many faired very, very well under that same formula in earlier years. Brandon, for example, having had an increase of 11.5 percent during the succeeding few years, and that was during an era when funding increases from the province overall were not there, so they are working from a very secure base.
Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): The minister's radio is not turned on. They are not working from a secure base.
Madam Speaker, taxpayers paying property taxes for school taxes have had hundreds of dollar increases in their taxation under this minister and this Premier over the last number of years, and that is why the recommendation is to make that shift to general revenues this year rather than the property taxes implemented by this government through their cutbacks in funding over the last five years. The report further recommends, as a No. 2 priority, that some $15 million is needed for new technology for our kids, for our future, for Manitoba children and for our schools. How can the minister square this recommendation based on student need of $15 million with the $1.8-million announcement that she made, which is approximately $10 per student, to meet the future technological needs? Why are we depriving our kids a decent future by denying them the technology that is recommended by their own advisory committee?
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Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): The $1.8 million over and above the formula that we provided for technology this year is an indication that we see it as a priority and that we wish to continue helping.
Madam Speaker, that goes along with the science technology grants that are being provided to schools, up to $40,000 per school annually. We have been giving them to some 25 schools per year, very valuable assistance in the classroom for technology, along with the guidance we have been providing through MERLIN and through other enterprises to assist school divisions in co-ordinating and interacting with each other.
You know, recently, Madam Speaker, the member for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk) was pleased with what we are doing in technology in her division. Those kinds of things, while more can always be done and we would like to do more and more and more, I think, given the work that we have been doing, our indication and commitment to technology in schools is clear.
Funding--Rural Manitoba
Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, this year over half the school divisions in Manitoba received less than the stable funding that they were promised by this government. One rural school division, writing of its dismay and anger at these significant reductions, said to the minister, in your public announcement you gave no indication of what lay in store for many rural divisions.
On February 11, delegates from over 70 rural municipalities, school boards and parent councils met in an unprecedented meeting to send that same message to the Minister of Education. I want to ask the minister: what has she done with that message? Has she turned that radio on yet?
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, there is no getting away from the fact that this year we have added $17.6 million on top of the $115 million we had already added since we took office to public school education in Manitoba. That is $131 million added to public schools since we took office, just in their basic funding formula.
While it is true that some divisions that were feeling the impact of reassessment, of declining enrollment and other factors that affect the formula would experience a decrease, all of those divisions were told very clearly and understood very clearly last year that when we said this year there would be as much money in the pot this year as there was last year, that that was what they understood. We made it very clear in writing and verbally that variations would occur, of course, to divisions depending upon whether or not their enrollment had gone up and down.
In the case of Brandon, for example, enrollment went down by $200,000. If their enrollment goes up come September, they will get that money. It will flow automatically. They knew that, and the member should know that they can apply their known factors into the formula for estimating purposes.
Ms. Friesen: I would like to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon) to confirm that he is aware of the very serious accusations that are coming from rural Manitoba, and again I quote: quite frankly, the quality of education has deteriorated to the point where the primary responsibility of boards to provide a satisfactory level of service to the students charged to their care is being compromised by the provincial government's failure to provide adequate financial support.
Those are serious accusations. Is the Premier aware of them?
Mrs. McIntosh: As I said before, we have put $131 million more into education this year than was being put into public education when we took office. The special levy that school boards put in place, if the member wants to go back just for comparison purposes, since she seems to be doing some comparisons here, she might be interested to see that the special levy rate increase during the mid-'80s, the late '80s when the NDP were in office were a much higher percentage rate than they are under this government.
So if school divisions are able, Madam Speaker, to--
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister of Education and Training, to quickly complete her response.
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Mrs. McIntosh: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. School divisions are able--when they are doing their projections they are able and they do take figures that they know to be true for themselves, for example, the market value of their homes, the projected student enrollment, et cetera, and they can plug those into the formula for a reasonable estimate as to what they could be expecting. Divisions did that this year so they were not surprised.
Ms. Friesen: Could the minister, the educational leader in this province, tell us what steps she has taken to meet the very real fears of those parents and trustees in rural Manitoba who are telling her that the quality of education has deteriorated, they cannot meet the needs of their students?
Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, not accepting the preamble as accurate, because I visit many, many schools and I visit with many, many boards, and the message that she is portraying today is not the universal message that I am receiving. Indeed, many boards have written to say thank you; many boards have dropped by to say thank you. As well, in visiting schools, I am both impressed and delighted with the very, very high standard that I see in many of our public schools. I see wonderful progress in technology taking place, high levels of literacy. I see a tremendous amount of extremely good work being done in the classrooms. I see small classes. I see plenty of educational assistants and technological assistants in the classes. We can always improve and we can always do more, and we wish to do that, but to leave an impression there is a poor quality of education here is incorrect.
Physician Resources--Pediatrics
Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Because of excessive workloads, sometimes as much as 120 hours a week, the remaining two pediatricians in Brandon have now withdrawn their on-call services, and the hospital, the Brandon General Hospital could be forced to send children by air or ambulance to Winnipeg for treatment. The people of Brandon and western Manitoba are increasingly alarmed at this situation. The minister and his staff have known for many, many months that there was a serious problem, and the minister has not come up with a solution.
My question to the minister: will the minister acknowledge that a crisis does exist and tell us exactly what he is going to do to address this crisis today?
Hon. Darren Praznik (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, we have attempted to keep the member for Brandon East informed on a number of these issues and the details which have not made it into the public debate. I think he is more informed of the intricacies of this situation than his question would imply. I can tell him that, from the recent report I had this morning from the Brandon hospital authority, the health authority, I understand they have identified I believe three new physicians that they are currently talking to about recruiting to Brandon.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Will the minister acknowledge that Winnipeg indeed has an oversupply of pediatricians and that the solution can be found in an adequate incentive system, coupled with proper supports, to attract pediatricians out of Winnipeg, and the solution is not to go offshore to bring foreign doctors in; the solution is at the minister's doorstep if he would only take this matter seriously?
Mr. Praznik: Certainly we take it seriously. I want to thank the member for Brandon East for his support for those types of changes, because under the current agreement we have with the Manitoba Medical Association, reallotment within the fee schedule is within their purview under that agreement. We are beginning, we would like to begin, we have offered to begin the process of negotiating the new agreement, and the kinds of mechanisms that the member is requesting certainly should be considered in this agreement to get the right allocation of physicians. I take it from the member's comments today that we can count on the support of the New Democratic Party in that initiative.
Mr. Leonard Evans: Madam Speaker, will the minister assure this Legislature, the people of Brandon and western Manitoba, that he really will, along with his staff, give this crisis their full attention, make it a priority, and come up with the solution now that will provide for an adequate level of pediatric services in the city of Brandon? As the Brandon Sun has said: Will the minister put the care back into the health care system?
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Mr. Praznik: Madam Speaker, absolutely, because one of the observations I make today as we get into these battles, and I suspect since the agreement with the Manitoba Medical Association is expiring at the end of this month, and since we have already been told by Mr. Laplume that they will be looking for areas in which to cause difficulty within the system, I certainly want to ensure care is there in the health care system rather than negotiating tactics or politics in the broader sense. But what the member is suggesting today is a very radical departure from the tradition in Canada and in this province in how we remunerate physicians and how we build into that the ability to direct them.
Our staff at Manitoba Health has been working with the Brandon Authority. We have offered to convert fee-for-service dollars into contracts to be able to get into that position of contract, salaried physicians. Currently, if we are going to do this, of course we should first attempt to do it through negotiating a new agreement with the Manitoba Medical Association. I would expect from the member's comments today that the New Democratic Party will be supportive of our initiatives rather than be continually critical of absolutely every move we make, even when they contradict themselves. When push comes to shove, they will be there.
Student Protest--Investigation
Ms. Diane McGifford (Osborne): Madam Speaker, last year the Winnipeg Free Press called the Minister of Education a schoolyard bully. This year the minister has evolved to being both an object of ridicule and a bully. The first I think is clear in a Free Press cartoon which I am pleased to table and the second in the minister's unprofessional remarks about students at Grant Park school which culminated in an unprecedented demand that a particular student be punished so as to serve as an example.
Madam Speaker: The question, please?
Ms. McGifford: I want to ask the Minister of Education, and leaving aside the human rights issues, I want to ask the minister if she--
Madam Speaker: Order, please. Would the honourable member for Osborne please pose her question now.
Ms. McGifford: Yes, Madam Speaker. I want to ask the minister if she is now satisfied that the student has been disciplined, or does she intend to continue her personal vendetta?
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): In response to questions I had received at my office about security in the schools, I made a request of the Winnipeg School Division, a request for information about whether or not a locked door had been broken open to allow unauthorized personnel to the school, and that if that were true, would the discipline that would be put in place help other students understand that such things should not occur. I have since heard--
An Honourable Member: So where was this RFK analogy; eyes bulging out--
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Minister of Education and Training, to complete her response.
Mrs. McIntosh: The member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton), from his chair, refers to a subsequent story in the Free Press which alluded to how I felt for those few moments on stage, and that may have made interesting headlines, but it had nothing to do with my correspondence to the Winnipeg School Division which was a request for information about a locked door having been broken open, and any disciplinary action which may have flowed from that, if it were true, could the board please make sure that it would help other students understand that we have rules about safety in our schools that we passed last June.
So, Madam Speaker, that is my only communication with the Winnipeg School Division on the issue, so I do not know what the member is referring to in terms of personal vendetta; I have none.
Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Osborne, with a supplementary question.
Ms. McGifford: Why, Madam Speaker, when the minister clearly knows that legislation states that discipline is the jurisdiction of the principal and, in this case, the principal had taken the necessary measures, did the minister then write to the chair of the Winnipeg School Board demanding a report on disciplinary measures with regard to the student Chris Millar? What has happened--
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The question has been put.
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Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, there was no demand in my letter; it was a request for information. I would be delighted to provide the member a copy of my letter which simply said: after the event in question, three platform guests were provided with information by the school that a locked door had been violated and unauthorized people allowed admittance to the school. Because of the newspaper coverage on that event, I received a request from the public questioning our commitment to safety in schools. I therefore wrote to the school board, which is the legal channel with whom I communicate, asking for the information: was there or was there not in fact a locked door violated and, if so, what would be the disciplinary measures?.
It was a request for information; it was not a demand for punishment.
Ms. McGifford: Madam Speaker, the minister is wrong, wrong, wrong about that letter.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would remind the honourable member for Osborne, this is not a time for debate. Would she please pose her final supplementary question.
Ms. McGifford: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier (Mr. Filmon) why he allows this minister to bully and intimidate Manitobans, to run a department based on bad temper--
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): Words like the ones uttered by the honourable member for Osborne in her last question--
Madam Speaker: On a point of order?
Mr. McCrae: Yes, on a point of order, Madam Speaker. We have all been reminded repeatedly to use language which is appropriate for a parliamentary setting, and the honourable member's last question contains words which I suggest if they are not on the list of unparliamentary expressions, ought to be, and we can put them there by making a precedent here today.
Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Thompson, on the same point of order.
Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): On the same point of order, Madam Speaker. It was this minister who likened a peaceful student protest to the RFK assassination, making references to their eyes bulging out, their veins popping, and now the government House leader is concerned about language made by our member of the Legislature in questioning that. I think not only are the comments appropriate, I think it is absolutely unacceptable to have a Minister of Education in this province who would try and persecute student protesters for exercising their democratic rights.
Madam Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable government House leader, on October 5, 1995, the quotation "bullying his way around" was ruled unparliamentary. Caution was again given on April 29, 1996, on the word "bullies." I would request that the honourable member for Osborne please withdraw the direct reference to the minister bullying and pick and choose her words more carefully on a further occasion.
Ms. McGifford: Madam Speaker, I was quoting the Free Press. I withdraw the word "bully" and substitute--
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Ms. McGifford: I withdraw the word "bully."
Madam Speaker: I thank the honourable member for Osborne. Would you quickly rephrase your question.
Ms. McGifford: Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier why he allows this minister to run a department based on bad temper rather than sound management, accountability and respect for legislation.
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I totally reject the assertions that are contained in that question by the member for Osborne. I know this minister to be a very caring individual who has personally attended at more than a hundred and fifty different schools in the province since she was appointed the Minister of Education, who goes out to visit with all of the students, who cares deeply about their future and who has demonstrated that time and time again, which is why we get the kinds of personal attacks we have just had from the member for Osborne.
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Funding--Per Student Statistics
Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Madam Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Education. Given that education is of great importance for our younger generation in order to obtain the necessary knowledge to advance in our society, can the minister tell this House how much this government currently spends on each student for education, and how does this compare with other provinces?
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, the Province of Manitoba provides grants to school divisions. It works out to about $4,000 per student. I can get the exact figure for him that is provided to school divisions. That is not necessarily what is spent, because school divisions themselves can, through their authority to collect their own levy, change the amount expended by what they collect or choose to spend. But that is the basis for what the province provides on a per capita basis through the student funding formula.
Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): Madam Speaker, to the same minister: how does the Education budget compare with the province's GDP, and how does the Education spending to GDP ratio compare with other provinces?
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, I will have to take that question under notice and provide the information to the member. I can tell him, however, though, in meeting with other ministers of Education across the country, Manitoba spends per capita slightly more than the average in Canada of the other provinces across the nation, but the exact figures I will have to provide for him. They do fluctuate on an annual basis.
Mr. Neil Gaudry (St. Boniface): To the same minister: can the minister tell this House what the average class size at the primary, junior high and senior high levels are in this province, and how does it compare with other provinces?
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): We have the third-best ratio in terms of class size compared to other provinces across the nation. In terms of two categories, pupil-teacher ratio and educator-pupil ratio, we say that we have 18.9 to one, being what would be registered classroom teachers, 19 to one. In terms of educators in the school which would include those teachers who do not teach in classrooms, librarians, guidance counsellors, we have 15, 14.9 or 15 to one, very good ratios in terms of class size. Nineteen would be equivalent to the average class size, but that does not mean, nor should be mistaken to mean that every class will have 19. Some will have 30, some will have 10, depending upon what classes you have, where you are, et cetera. But the average is 19 to one.
Student Complaint
Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, time and time again the Minister of Education's behaviour has been unacceptable. At a meeting of post-secondary representatives last September, the minister showed contempt, disrespect and abusive behaviour to a student representative who was there to discuss the very important issues related to post-secondary education.
My question is to the Premier: what action has the Premier taken to respond to the letter of December 11, 1997, from Elizabeth Carlyle, the president of the University of Winnipeg Students Association, which cites the Minister of Education's behaviour as personally injurious, completely unnecessary and inappropriate? In fact, the Honourable Mrs. McIntosh's behaviour became so unbearable--and I am quoting from the letter--that at one point the Honourable David Newman felt it necessary to intervene and ask her to get back to post-secondary education issues relevant to the meeting.
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I will provide a written response to the member--or at least to the individual who wrote that letter. That individual, of course, is also the same individual who led a student protest that occupied my constituency office--I might say occupying private property and taking it over, locking the door and doing all sorts of foolish things that normally would be the subject of police action. I think that kind of hooliganism, though, is not the kind of thing that we should be supporting in this Legislature. I note that the member for St. James supports that kind of activity though.
I would suggest, Madam Speaker, you ask the Premier to not only obey the rules but not make that kind of attack against the student representative, continuing the kind of personal attacks and vendetta we see against anybody that disagrees with this government.
Hon. James McCrae (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, on the same point of order, the honourable member who raised the point knows the rules very well, knows that he has not a leg to stand on with respect to any citation in Beauchesne in relationship to the comments of the First Minister of this House this afternoon and has no point of order.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. On the point of order raised by the honourable member for Thompson, the honourable member does not have a point of order. Language specific to members is ruled parliamentary or unparliamentary. I believe someone outside this Chamber was identified in the First Minister's comments.
Madam Speaker: The honourable First Minister, to complete his response.
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. I believe practice in this House, if a member's time has not expired and is interrupted--
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. I believe practice in this House is, if the member's, who was responding to the question, time has not expired and is interrupted on a point of order, that member can or may indeed complete their response.
Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, in concluding my response, the member for St. James (Ms. Mihychuk) joins a long list of New Democrats in this House who support disruptive and illegal activities from time to time--
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Madam Speaker: Order, please.
Mr. Ashton: On a point of order, Madam Speaker, the comments made by the First Minister were highly unparliamentary and out of order, and I would cite the precedent in which the government House leader in another reincarnation a number of years ago was actually expelled from the House for similar sorts of accusations.
The questions asked by the member for St. James were about a meeting between the president of the University of Winnipeg Students Association and the Minister of Education--nothing illegal, a meeting. In this province, Madam Speaker, expressing one's opinion and meeting with members of the government are legal. We are not into a Pinochet-style dictatorship. We have rights, we have democracy in this province and that First Minister should withdraw that rather despicable comment that he made.
Madam Speaker: The honourable First Minister, on the same point of order.
Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the comment.
Madam Speaker: I thank the honourable First Minister.
Ms. Mihychuk: Madam Speaker, my second question is to the Premier. How can the Premier justify the double standard of his Minister of Education (Mrs. McIntosh), who demonstrates where she herself shows great intolerance to her perceived disrespect of certain students, and yet this minister is totally disrespectful to the people that she meets with and, in this case, the president of the University of Winnipeg Students Association--total disrespect?
Mr. Filmon: Madam Speaker, I totally reject the assertions contained in the question of the member for St. James.
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Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam Speaker, my final question to the Premier: will the Premier suspend the Minister of Education for her unacceptable behaviour--and if anyone is a hooligan, it is in the second row right behind him--and stop the embarrassment to Manitobans and put in somebody who can lead and be a leader in education?
Madam Speaker: Order, please. The reference made by the member for St. James was specific to a member in this House, and I would ask that the member retract the word specifically attributable to the Minister of Education and Training. We have already gone through this once today.
Ms. Mihychuk: Madam Speaker, I remove the specific reference to the Minister of Education being a hooligan. I probably meant her behaviour was hooliganism.
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Madam Speaker: Order, please. When a member is requested to withdraw unparliamentary language, the withdrawal is supposed to be unqualified. Would the honourable member for St. James please just withdraw the words used?
Ms. Mihychuk: Madam Speaker, I withdraw my comment.
Madam Speaker: I thank the honourable member for St. James.
Hon. Gary Filmon (Premier): Madam Speaker, I do not believe that the false allegations made by the member for St. James are worthy of a response.
Funding--Property Taxes
Ms. Marianne Cerilli (Radisson): Madam Speaker, on Friday the Minister of Education said that all divisions support the way school divisions are funded, and she said, I quote: that they want to see it stay in place.
This is utterly false and incorrect, and I want to table a copy of a report to the Minister of Education from the Transcona School Division that clearly states that they have concerns with the means by which education funds are distributed amongst school divisions and that they see the system as fundamentally flawed.
I want to ask the Minister of Education if she will now admit that her statements were wrong and that the huge increases in property tax across the province by school divisions is because of the underfunding of this government for education.
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): Madam Speaker, as I indicated in an earlier answer, and I think it bears repeating, $131 million more has gone into education since we took office. The school divisions that had originally been quoted in the paper, in the Brandon Sun, as desiring a change to the formula have contacted me specifically to say, please do not misinterpret us. We do not wish the formula changed. We like the formula. Our problem is we got hit this year with the impact of reassessment.
They have asked that in future years can we take a look at phasing in anything over or above a certain variable. We can certainly take a look at that, Madam Speaker, but they made it very clear--they came to see me in person to make it clearer--that they did not wish to see that formula changed. It was those divisions that I was specifically referring to, those divisions that had originally been quoted as saying they wanted a change, emphasized to me they did not want to change. The majority of divisions in Manitoba are in that category.
Ms. Cerilli: I thank the minister for at least backtracking on that answer.
With Transcona-Springfield School Division having to raise now 36 percent of its budget from local taxes, I want to ask the minister to tell us when she is going to start listening to school divisions and her own Advisory Committee on Education Finance and implement the recommendations to review the way school divisions are funded, and that this year specifically no increase in revenue should come from property taxes.
Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, the funding formula that is currently in place is one that was devised with the assistance of people in the field. Superintendents, educators, teachers, people from the field helped develop the current funding formula.
Madam Speaker, the feedback we have received is that while there may be some exceptions, the vast majority of school divisions say they want no change to this formula. The formula is reviewed annually. We receive advice from the Finance Advisory Committee which is sometimes accepted, sometimes modified and sometimes rejected. We are looking at what to do in the future. There is a massive change in assessment on property values, as the member has suggested. That is part of our normal course of review. We are paying specific attention to that aspect, given that this year it was the subject of complaint by some divisions.
Funding--Rural Manitoba
Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, I would like to raise an issue on behalf of the people of the Roblin-Russell constituency who are very concerned about the direction this government is taking with education funding.
In a letter from the R.M. of Rossburn and the town of Rossburn to the Minister of Education, it is clear that the municipal leaders are concerned that as a result of reduced funding there is going to be a huge tax increase in rural Manitoba. How can this government continue to say that they have not increased taxes when in fact there is going to be a tremendous increase in property taxes in rural Manitoba because of cutbacks to education funding by this government?
Hon. Linda McIntosh (Minister of Education and Training): I think the member is somewhat flawed when she refers to rural Manitoba, because the changes in reassessment that caused negative impacts for some divisions are not all of rural Manitoba divisions. Many rural Manitoba divisions faired extremely well this year because the impact of assessment came to them earlier. Similarly, many of the metro divisions have a very good experience this year because the impact of assessment hit them four years ago.
Madam Speaker, I come back to the increase in special levies. By and large, particularly in urban Manitoba, they are far less than they were when the New Democrats were in power. I have met with the Pelly Trail board, and I have talked to them. I have met with several boards, be seeing more of them again during the MAST convention coming up later this month. Anything that they wish to share with me that they have not already shared with me I am quite willing to examine, but problems of low and declining enrollment cannot be changed. If you have fewer students, you will get less money, and reassessment--we are taking a look at.
Ms. Wowchuk: Will the Minister of Education admit that the quality of education in rural Manitoba has declined and people are very worried about it because of a cut in funding to education by this government?
Mrs. McIntosh: Madam Speaker, we are very pleased with the quality of education we see in Manitoba. The member herself is running around the North trying to take credit for our initiatives on technology in the northern schools, a very distinct improvement in quality that has nothing to do with her and everything to do with us. I need to put on the record that the member approached me once last year about technology, and that should be recorded because I notice now she is trying to take credit. So all I can say is if things are not going well, they want us to take the blame; for things that are going well, they (a) either do not want to acknowledge it or (b) take the credit themselves. The fact is the quality of education in Manitoba is extremely good. That is borne out by national examinations. It is borne out by commentary from other ministers of Education across the nation.
Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.