LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF
Thursday, May 6, 2004
The House met at 10 a.m.
PRAYERS
ORDERS OF THE DAY
House Business
Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, would you canvass the House to see if there is agreement to waive Rule 23(4) so that a requested recorded vote on the resolution to come up in the second hour will not be deferred to the following private members' hour but will instead take place today, that is assuming that the resolution comes to a vote?
Mr.
Speaker: Is there agreement to waive Rule 23(4) so
that a requested recorded vote on the resolution will not be deferred to the
following private members' hour but will instead take place today? Is there
agreement? [Agreed]
PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS
SECOND READINGS–PUBLIC BILLS
Bill 200–The Criminal Organizations Deterrence Act (Local Government
Acts Amended)
Mr. Speaker: On the proposed motion of the honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Hawranik), Bill 200, The Criminal Organizations Deterrence Act (Local Government Acts Amended), what is the will of the House?
Some Honourable Members: Dispense.
Mr. Speaker: Dispense. I have just been corrected. It is not dispense. It will stand.
Bill 201–The Taxpayer Protection Legal Representation Act (Legal Aid
Services Society
of
Mr. Speaker: On the proposed motion of the honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Hawranik), Bill 201, The Taxpayer Protection Legal Representation Act (Legal Aid Services Society of Manitoba Act Amended), what is the will of the House?
Some Honourable Members: Stand.
Mr. Speaker: Stand. Okay.
Bill 206–The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act
Mr. Speaker: On the proposed motion of the honourable Member for River East (Mrs. Mitchelson), Bill 206, The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act, what is the will of the House?
Some Honourable Members: Stand.
Mr.
Speaker: Stand? Okay, it is standing in the name of
the honourable Member for St. Norbert (Ms. Brick). What is the will of the
House? Is it the will of the House to leave it standing in the name of the
honourable Member for
Also,
the honourable Member for
Mr.
John Loewen (
It
would be in this sitting, I realize, an unusual circumstance for the members
from the opposite side to actually stand up and speak to a bill, but I can
assure them that I am indeed looking forward to hearing their remarks. I am,
quite frankly, looking forward to hearing them stand up and support this bill,
because we all know this is the NDP party that prides itself in standing up for
the little person in
Therefore, I would encourage the members opposite to study this issue, to do some research on it and to get up and speak to it. But I am very fearful that what we have seen so far displayed in this House is that the government of the day, the New Democratic Party, has lost their, shall I call it moral centre, not only on this issue, but virtually on all issues. This party that goes out there and pretends to stand up for the downtrodden in our society, for the little people, instead of doing that, this version of today's NDP, as they like to call themselves, is stamping on them.
It has decided that instead of helping them, it should send out the Minister responsible for Energy, Science and Technology and the minister responsible for post-secondary education, send them out to collaborate and devise a new form of gambling so that this version of the New Democratic Party can go out and pick the pockets of the less fortunate in our society. For what purpose? Does it serve any purpose other than to allow them to stand up and proclaim that they have got a little lower deficit than they otherwise would have had?
Mr.
Speaker, it has really shaken this party to the core. No longer can they go out
and pretend to stand up for the little person in
What do they do? Mr. Speaker, they increased gambling. They opened the bars on Sunday so that they can open the VLTs to get more gambling revenue. They invest $100 million of taxpayers' money so they can get more gambling revenue.
Now that does not help the less fortunate in our society. That simply hits them over the head with a sledgehammer. This Government, they know the studies, they know that it is the poor in our society that are more susceptible to run into trouble with gambling. This Government, instead of reaching out to help them out, wants to hit them over the head with a sledgehammer.
This
is the Government that also raises every fee known to mankind so again, they
can raise revenue without saying that we have raised taxes, as the Premier so
likes to say. Instead they go out and they raise $90 million in new taxes, and
a good portion of that comes from people on fixed incomes. Do they go after
middle-income Manitobans in terms of income tax rates? No, they decide to put an
extra $23 on your vehicle registration. So everybody living in
Mr.
Speaker, I am very interested in hearing the remarks of members opposite, in
particular the backbenchers. I remember in the last session before the
election, there was a group of strong backbenchers on the other side of the
House and they spoke up virtually to every bill and put their voices on the
record. I challenge particularly the member from Wolseley, the new members from
But, unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, as with every other day that we have sat, I am afraid that the benches opposite are going to remain silent, and I think that not only does a disservice to the party, but it does a disservice to Manitobans. I thank you for the time.
Introduction of Guests
Mr. Speaker: Before recognizing the honourable Member for Emerson (Mr. Penner), I would just like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us from Faraday School 38 Grade 5 students under the direction of Ms. Claretta Shefrin and Mrs. Evelin Anderson. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale).
On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today.
* * *
Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to put a few comments on the record on Bill 206, The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act. This act, I think, in large part deals with the conscience of the current administration of the NDP government and the NDP party as a whole. We have heard constantly that the NDP party and the current government has put itself off, in advertisements and many other ways, as being the social conscience of the little guy.
* (10:10)
Here we have a situation where the current government is allowing a publicly owned corporation to claw back insurance benefits paid to an individual that was disabled through an accident, through no fault of her own, as others have.
Another example I want to give you, Mr. Speaker, is that when the BSE crisis struck in this province, the Government advertised numerous programs that would have paid, or would have been seen to have paid, $180 million to the livestock producers of this province.
Yet, Mr. Speaker, when you really look at what really happened, there was an amount of $33 million that was paid out versus the $180 million that this Government spent hundreds of thousands of dollars advertising and convincing Manitobans that had been paid out to them, leaving the perception that this Government was truly doing a tremendous amount to help those that could not help themselves. In other words, exercising their social conscience.
What is socially wrong with the approach this Government has been taking is the advertisements, the misleading advertisements, that this Government has used, day in and day out, to try and convince people that this NDP party is the party of social conscience.
What social conscience would this Government want to hide under to try and demonstrate to the people of Manitoba that allowing a public insurance corporation to claw back an amount of money, to claw back $160 a month of compensation for injuries that this person incurred, through no fault of her own, was the right thing to do? What social conscience can this Government try and hide behind to try and maintain the public policy of clawbacks?
The
reason I raised the issue of clawbacks, under the BSE program was a very
similar one. Through no fault of
We
did that to
Mr. Speaker, what a social conscience this party has. What a social conscience this Government has, to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars advertising a program, then announcing a large amount of money, paying out a very small portion or pretending to, and then clawing back half of that.
Mr. Speaker, this Public Insurance corporation should be reined in. The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation should be reined in. It is this Government's ministers and the Premier (Mr. Doer) of this province who need to pull the reins, but the decision needs to be made first in policy by the NDP party and the NDP government of this province.
I
think it is important for the general public, for the people of
I give you health care. This Government said they would fix health care with $15 million and in six months. That was a social commitment to the people of this province. What happened? Well, after having now spent over a billion dollars a year extra, and most of it going to the health care budget, this Government has achieved absolutely nothing.
Secondly,
they have time and time again told the people of
The legislation carefully outlines the benefits available in a way that takes into account whether or not and to what extent a person was working when the loss occurs. We all agree with that. Interestingly enough, it was a Tory Conservative government that put those policies in place to protect the innocent, to protect the helpless and to protect the injured.
Yet what has this Government allowed? Mr. Speaker, this Government has allowed the clawback of $160 a month from an innocent victim who was disabled and received compensation from Manitoba Public Insurance corporation.
What
a disaster this Government is allowing to be perpetrated by the Public
Insurance corporation. Mr. Speaker, this clearly tells the people of
I think it is up to this Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) to meet with the Minister responsible for the Manitoba Public Insurance corporation (Mr. Mackintosh) and have the discussion and say to the Minister of Public Insurance corporation that this $160 will not fix the deficit that this Government is running and therefore say to the minister of the public insurance corp, tell the corporation to abide by the rules and the policy that was put in place under PIP and ensure that the people of Manitoba, if and when, no matter what public stature they have, no matter what financial situations they are in, but when they do have an accident, Mr. Speaker, the policies of the corporation will be kept in place, and this Government is no longer intent on clawing back $160 a month to try and help them balance their budget.
* (10:20)
I
think this is sad, and it is despicable that the social conscience of this
Government, of this NDP government, has been allowed to deteriorate to the
point that it has. I would suggest to the people of
Mr. Speaker, I ask and I beg this Chamber to support the amendment that is being brought forward here. I would suggest to all of those that sit on the government side, especially those in the backbenches that have not been given the opportunity to serve on Cabinet, that have been discarded from Cabinet, get up. Get up and support this legislation. Get up and voice your opinion. Get up and tell your Government that it is your party's position, that it is your party's social conscience, that needs to be supported and brought back to reality.
To
the people of
Mr. Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity for putting a few of these comments on the record.
Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Mr. Speaker, it is my privilege as well to put a few comments on the record in regard to Bill 206, dealing with The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act.
This
bill has been put forward by the member from River East as a private member's
bill. I would certainly urge the Government to seriously take a look at this
bill and speak to this bill. I would also urge them, if they feel so inclined
and do not want to get up and speak to it at this time, that when this bill is
voted upon they vote in favour of this particular amendment. My colleagues have
already provided the reasons as to why this is good legislation, an amendment
to a good piece of legislation, in the
But
I believe that there needs to be some small bit of clarity in regard to the
reasons around why we should be allowing this kind of compassionate legislation
in the
She
was married to a disabled person already. Of course, unbeknownst to her when
she had her accident, down the road there would be a splitting of the marriage.
Under the normal process of
Upon
receiving a very small amount when you look at what is needed in regard to a
living today of some $160 a month, which does go a long way toward supporting a
household in Manitoba, Mr. Speaker, particularly for this person who had a
disability caused by an accident through no fault of her own. Her claim from
Manitoba Public Insurance ended up being clawed back. I find that, as an
individual in
I also find it a duty of my responsibilities in this House as an elected member of the Legislature for Arthur-Virden, and I would assume that all members from the other 56 constituencies in this province would feel the same way in regard to having some compassion for this particular member. But we have not seen a lot of compassion in this Government over its term, particularly when you are looking at a number of the areas of concern that maybe $160 is just not enough to be concerned about.
But the Government has dealt with a number of other issues of much greater volumes of dollars. It has been to the detriment of Manitobans as well, whether or not it is $100,000 for the agricultural industry that was used for advertisements to convince people that their own work in the agricultural field on the issues of BSE that have surrounded us for the past year almost.
Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair
We are coming up to the anniversary of that particular concern. To think that as I raised in the issue in this House last fall that this Government would actually use $100,000 of taxpayers' own money. I will get to the $100 million in a moment.
But $100,000 of consumers' own money in the tax dollars of this province to actually pat themselves on the back and make consumers believe that they were actually pouring $180 million out into the BSE issue, when we find that the final result was that a hundred million of that was actually a loan of the farmers' own money that was never taken up by them because the farmers did not want to assume more debt on their own in the wake of a devastating period of time caused by no fault of their own either.
We
have also got another ad campaign going on to actually promote the Budget on a
number of things that I would like to know just exactly what that cost. The
Government has also got a $100,000 advertising program going on in a number of
different areas at this time. But the kicker is the $100 million that I talked
about earlier in regard to buying new VLTs in the
I guess this Government's plan is a gambling plan. They are going to gamble with Manitobans' futures. They are gambling that will be the plan that will give them the economic development to perhaps be able to come back and create the ability to pass legislation like this, that would allow $160 to go back into the hands of an individual that was disabled through an accident of absolutely no fault of her own, and, of course, in a situation where the money that she has received after a separation from an already disabled husband has been clawed back by the Manitoba Public Insurance corporation.
I
find that to be an atrocity in this province that I would hope is at least only
one case, but I am sure that it is not, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I am sure that
there are other cases like this out there in
I
do not hold a lot of faith in this Government being able to see through this,
but I sure hope they have the ability to do that. I want to just say that this
Government has not been able to make tough decisions and at a time when
everything has been flowing their way, particularly dollars from a number of
sectors. They have got a time when
I
find that it is very easy to make decisions when dollars are flowing your way,
when they have got the lowest interest rates in history in the
I would also just like to say that this Government, I know that they have come out in this Budget and said that they are going to, through attrition over a number of years, reduce civil servants by 400 people. [interjection] It is tough. It is hard to make those decisions.
* (10:30)
But
when I look at today's news announcements of another government in
So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, following up today on that announcement on that government election victory of some year ago, we see the Premier of Québec, the Honourable Jean Charest, president of the chamber of Québec, bringing out a 10-year plan of attrition in the province of Québec, that over that 10 years would save them $700 million. It basically looks at an attrition process that over the next 10 years one in five civil servants in that province will not be replaced.
Basically
what he is saying is we can work the operations of our government in the
I
just do not think that is good enough for the citizens of
Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am talking about an across-Canada base. All provinces are having to make these decisions and it is only an accountable government that understands that even under tough circumstances you have to make these decisions for the betterment of the future of our children in this province and disabled people like the persons that are impacted by the bill that the honourable Member from River East (Mrs. Mitchelson) has put forward in the Legislature here that I am urging each of the members of this House to vote in favour of as we move down the road.
Let
me give you another example. The New Democratic government in the
One prime example is the ferries that cost some $400 million to build that were never used. They actually built these ferries. Fast ferries I think they called them. Boy, I will tell you, there were fast ferries in this one. They were flying all over the place. Those things never even hit the water. They managed to float, but they really never got across the bay very often and one, I think, just never even got out of the port. This is an example of another NDP bungling of a process, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that actually wasted money in regard to the future of the citizens of that province, and they were turfed.
I believe that this Government, the same outcome will come to them in very short order because Manitobans are waking up to the fact that this Government has spent all of the surpluses that were in government from the best position that any province has ever left a government in in Canadian history, Mr. Deputy Speaker, when the NDP came into power in 1999, the best fiscal period that they were in at least.
So
a third government in
When
those times are coming in, Mr. Deputy Speaker, we should be not just paying
down debt in the province because the balanced budget legislation, as an
example in
They would have used that $96 million to cover up the $75-million shortfall they had, to say, "Well, we had a $21-million surplus." That is what they would have done, Mr. Deputy Speaker. They do not like balanced budget legislation. They do not really care whether we reduce the debt of this province.
The deficit was reduced by a government in very hard times in this province, as I have said earlier, from transfer payments that were cut back, from high interest-rate periods. They still eliminated the deficit, had balanced books in this province under the debt legislation for five years.
So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I want to just close by saying that I want to urge this Government to use its social conscience to vote for Bill 206 because of the good times that they have had, because they should be able to show some compassion for the citizens of Manitoba by bringing this kind of legislation before this House and before Manitobans and passing it so that it will allow them to pay for shortcomings of disabled persons such as is impacted by this bill brought forward by the member from River East.
I congratulate her for doing that, so thank you.
Mr.
Ralph Eichler (
Obviously,
Mr. Deputy Speaker, that did not happen. I know the member from Dauphin and the
member from Assiniboia had the opportunity, but maybe they just do not feel
like getting up today. The member from
The only ones that seem to want to get up and do any work are the members in opposition, Mr. Deputy Speaker. So I encourage them to earn their pay. I encourage them to get up and talk about these issues that are so important, especially a bill like 206.
Bill 206 has been brought forward by the honourable member from River East, Mr. Deputy Speaker, a bill that is going to help those that are disabled through no fault of their own. I find it quite ironic that people that have been elected, supposedly New Democratic members, say they stick up for the little guy. Well, they certainly are not doing a good job of it on Bill 206.
Looking
at the legislation on this particular bill would help different people with
disabilities through no fault of their own. We had a particular individual in
our constituency of
With only one income, I am sure each and every one of us in this House has to take accountability for making sure, as government, we are responsible for those actions to make sure that we look after them. If we have one role to play in government, it is to make sure we are fair to every Manitoban around the province. It is our responsibility to look after those who are not as fortunate.
I
am upset, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that we have not seen the members opposite get up
and speak on this particular bill. I think it is important that the people of
* (10:40)
This
individual that I am talking about in
Mr. Speaker in the Chair
As we try to look after these people, this Bill 206 will certainly not alleviate all hardship, I will make that quite clear. But what it will do is put on the record ways in which we can help those people be somewhat a little more financially independent upon their livelihoods. When you look at the individual that we are using in this particular illustration, from the member of River East, that has $440 per month as part of her settlement, another $164 would have brought her up to $660. Well, I can tell you from sitting as a member in this House, I cannot live on $600 a month, and I do know of hardly any others that could live in the times that we are in as well.
It
is a small amount of money. Very seldom do you see the facts that members from
this opposite side are asking for giveaways. This is not a giveaway. This is a
giveaway that may be looked at on the opposite side as being a giveaway, but we
certainly do not look at it that way. We look at equity for all people, all
Manitobans throughout
People are put in situations where they are disadvantaged strictly by a system that is regulated and ruled by legislation in order to satisfy some of the disadvantaged people. Legislation like this from time to time does come forward. The bill would amend the public administration act about allowing a victim who is receiving ability to be brought up to the level of which that would be without having to have the Canada Pension Plan cut off.
When people are accidentally hurt from one thing to another, Mr. Speaker, it just does not seem right without the people on the opposite side wanting to help look after them. Just in closing, I would like to remind the members opposite to bring their ideas forward and support this bill, and if they are not going to support it, that they would have the courage to try and make sure that they get up and talk about this bill, because if they do not, then they are going to be going down on record, and we will help to encourage them.
Mr. Speaker, I know the Minister of Healthy Living (Mr. Rondeau) would probably love to get up and talk about this bill, because it is something that should be very dear to his heart. I think that it probably is. He just has not had the opportunity to get up and do that. Also, the member from Dauphin, I know he would like to get up and talk. He has a young child that he was telling me about when I first got elected that he was so proud of his new son or new daughter. With that opportunity, golly, who knows. I would wish this on no one. But sometimes accidents happen, and that is why they are called accidents, where by no fault of our own, they are brought upon us and we are just all of a sudden thrown in that little, dark room and left to fend for ourselves. That is dead wrong, dead wrong.
Mr. Speaker, I would encourage the Minister of Healthy Living, because I am sure he had the situation the same and he sees it every day, probably far more than I do, because he is in that portfolio. He needs to take it quite seriously because there are 56 others in this room that have an opportunity to stand up and talk on this bill, and I think there are only 8 or 9 who have done that so far.
Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I would just like, in closing, saying if you have not had an opportunity to speak on this bill, I think it is something that you should take quite seriously. If you have not read the bill, which maybe is the case on the other side, maybe they have not read it, we will be happy to give you a copy of the bill so that you can take it home, read it, and then we will be able to go ahead. [interjection] It is not that long. It is something that, even if you have trouble reading it, I will sit down and help and read it to you, if that is a problem. If you do not want to do that–
An Honourable Member: The Member for Elmwood (Mr. Maloway) has an insurance company.
Mr. Eichler: Yes. The member from Elmwood has an insurance company. He makes good money off people who have accidents. That is a great feat and I am sure he knows all the ins and outs of the insurance business. Most people would want to speak to this bill, and I am sure that he will put on the record his comments once he has an opportunity to read the bill, if he has not had a chance to read the bill. As I said, I would encourage all members opposite to do so. I look forward to hearing their comments and I look forward to each of them putting their comments on record. Thank you very much.
Mr. Jack Reimer (Southdale): Oh, I thought maybe someone was getting up over there. Pardon me, Mr. Speaker, I just about sat down again to make way for somebody from the other side.
The
Member for
It is quite straightforward. It is a situation that came out of an unfortunate accident with a lady in one of our constituent's ridings and it was brought forth with the intent that the Government would look at it in a very serious manner and, possibly, even have the ability to make the change or amendment to The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act. This is what we are debating today. As mentioned, the amendment in the act itself would be very, very innocuous. It is only a one-paragraph addition to the act and it would eliminate or look into the problem that has been created by the specific incidents under the personal injury act through the Manitoba Public Insurance corporation.
Mr. Speaker, just as a bit of a background, it was a lady who was severely injured in a car accident some years ago. She was dealt with through the personal insurance protection afforded under no-fault insurance. I think it is called PIP, as it was referred to earlier by one of my colleagues. The history of the family is that the lady was married to an individual who was disabled and receiving CPP disability. After the accident, she was compensated through the Manitoba Public Insurance corporation for her disability, but subsequent to the accident, she and the husband split up. As a result of that split, she applied, as was afforded her under the law, the opportunity to apply for income-splitting from her former spouse. She applied. She was granted an amount as a result of that income-splitting, but not realizing the fact that the money that was being taken from her husband and given to her was, indeed, going to be clawed back by the Manitoba Public Insurance corporation.
In essence, what has happened is the disabled husband did not have the opportunity to access the portion of the disability pension, and the disabled ex-spouse who is getting income replacement from the Manitoba Public Insurance corporation was not allowed to keep the additional $164 a month. Indeed, that was clawed back from the payments made by the Public Insurance corporation.
* (10:50)
What we are looking for, as mentioned, Mr. Speaker, is the amendment to section 197 of The Manitoba Public Insurance Act. I know that letters have been sent to the minister; there has been correspondence that the individual has sent to the department and the frustrations that she has encountered along the way. If we look at the history of it, we are going back to 1997; 1997 was the unfortunate accident that this lady had, and she has been in contact and through appeals, from what I understand, and correspondence, not only through the member for the area in River East, but also in her correspondence with the minister. It was pointed out that, even through MPIC, she was the first one to bring this type of situation to the corporation.
So the corporation, in essence, had never been faced with this kind of dilemma, if you want to call it, before. One can say, "Well, you know, if you do pass this amendment, you are setting a precedent in a sense that others will happen and everything else like that," but, as pointed out by MPIC, this was the first time an incident like this ever came to their attention. MPI has been around, if we recall, since, I believe, 1972 when it was first introduced and first brought forth, so that is a long time, and they have dealt with literally hundreds and hundreds of thousands of claims along the way. This is the first instance of this nature that has affected this individual.
We are not looking at setting up a huge precedence of influx of claims against MPIC. We are looking at an individual that has been put in a situation where, unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, because we are dealing with two people on disabilities, they are both suffering because of the strict rule of law that MPIC is enforcing.
One of the advantages when you are in government and you are a Cabinet minister is a lot of times you can look at situations. We all, as members in this House, have constituents bring forth problems or situations that they ask us to look into. That is really what the role of an MLA, a Cabinet minister, the Premier and government is all about. People have the right of access to their elected officials to ask for help. I encourage everybody to do that in their constituencies, and I am sure that I am not speaking out of line when I say that not only do we get calls on our side of the House as opposition, but I am sure that members on the other side of the House, from their constituents, will get calls from people that are looking for some sort of guidance or help or problem-solving that they have come across that affects their livelihood or their situation that they have been forced into.
We all try to help these individuals. Mr. Speaker, it is laudable, because we are in a position as the elected officials and, in a lot of cases, direct access to the minister or to some of these places, to try to help these people.
Now, these are some of the incidents, and it is usually the small things; it is the small little incidents usually that you get the greatest satisfaction in trying to help or steer through the maze of red tape or bureaucracy that a lot of individuals in our constituencies are facing. They come back with a sense of gratitude that you were able to help them and you were able to do something.
I think that is a very, very important function of MLAs and for Cabinet to recognize that, as elected officials, there is a responsibility, there is a duty, to try to help as many people and individuals in our constituencies, and for all Manitobans, whether they are in your constituency or not, in trying to get a betterment of their programs or their situations. We are talking here about an individual with a disability, a person that, I think, is trying to cope, is trying to get through the daily routine of existence in the community and is reaching out through her MLA to try to get some sort of resolve on a problem that is affecting her.
We are not talking a large settlement of money. We are not talking about a huge amount of money that this lady is looking at over the years. We are talking about a situation that is affecting approximately $2,000 a year of income for this individual.
In the overall spectrum people say, "Oh well, it may not appear like a lot of money." But to a lot of people that are on fixed income or on a disability, that means an awful lot. That means a lot of times going without or buying something that they need. It may mean some pleasures in life. It may mean a movie. It may mean a rental of a video or something. These are all small little pleasures that people enjoy, and $2,000 can go a long way in trying to eliminate some of the frustrations and the problems that this individual has.
When we look at trying to help these people, I think that it is worthy of the minister to reconsider a position that he has taken in regard to not recommending the proposal put forth. I think that the responsibility that government has to listen to the people and I believe that every Cabinet minister and every person in government and in the back benches and in the Opposition take very, very seriously the concerns that individuals bring forth to them because they, a lot of times, come to their MLA as the last resolve and a lot of times they do not realize that the last resolve is sometimes where they can get the solution to their problems.
A lot of times people come to their MLA, a lot of times in a very intrepid and a very humbling manner saying that I have tried everything and I cannot get any answers. So they come to their MLA to see whether they can get a response for it, or a direction, or somehow to get a solution to their problem. This is something that I think, as I mentioned, the MLAs, everyone takes very seriously. The opportunity we have right now today in debating this resolution is where we can make a difference.
We can make a difference collectively. We can make a difference as an MLA. Mr. Speaker, we can make a difference as a Cabinet minister and we can make a difference as a government. When I say government, I mean government in all resolves, whether it is opposition or the governing party, which is the NDP at this particular time.
So I think there is a lot of compassion that has to be looked at anything that is brought forth by a private member. A private member usually brings forth a bill that has a meaning to it in a sense of wanting to help in a particular way. I think that these are some of the things that have to be brought into consideration when we look at this amendment that was brought forth by the Member for River East (Mrs. Mitchelson) in trying to get help, a handout and a hand up, if you want to call it, for this individual that has run into a situation under the compensation and income splitting.
So the resolution, like I mentioned earlier, is a very simple one. The wording of it is very simple. It is just a one-paragraph addition to The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act and I will read it into the record, Mr. Speaker: "If part of a disability benefit referred to in subsection (1) is payable to the victim as the result of a division of pensionable earnings under the Canada Pension Plan, the corporation shall not deduct that amount from the victim's income replacement indemnity."
Very simple, a one line if you want to call it, a one-paragraph addition to the amendment to the act. I think that this is something that should be very, very seriously considered, Mr. Speaker, not only because it is brought forth by the Member for River East but because it is something that I think that the Government, the minister should look at very seriously because it is the small things that a government is measured at.
The Government can go down the road of the grandiose, grand projects like dams and the floodway and the great expansion, which is good, and I do not criticize. Those are things that are very, very laudable for a government to go down the road with, but a lot of times it is the small things that the government is going to be measured against.
It is the reaching out to the people on disability. It is reaching out to the seniors. It is reaching out to people that cannot help themselves. Mr. Speaker, those are the things that the Government will be measured on first and primarily when people consider what this Government has done for them.
This is one of the things that they can help with. This is a situation where they can help an individual, Mr. Speaker. I think these are the types of things that Government should take very, very seriously when they look at how they can be better government. If the Government goes down this road, we will applaud them for this because this is something that we believe in. I would think that the majority of the backbenchers and Cabinet, the individuals involved, they look at this as a very serious situation and the fact that they had the opportunity to help.
I would recommend that the Government look very, very seriously at this amendment. Mr. Speaker, it is something that we will support entirely. We welcome their input into the debate, but at the same time we welcome their support for this amendment. I think that these are the types of things like I mentioned before, that government will be measured at. The election may not be down the road for a few years, but it is the small things that build up, and they come to a head when people look at their ballots.
Mr. Speaker: Order. The hour being 11 a.m., when this matter is again before the House, the honourable member will have one minute remaining, and also it will remain standing in the name of the honourable Member for St. Norbert (Ms. Brick).
* (11:00)
Res. 1–Agriculture Awareness Day
Mr.
Speaker: The hour being 11 a.m., we will now move
to Resolutions, and we will call forward the resolution moved by the honourable
Member for Carman (Mr. Rocan), Agriculture Awareness Day. The honourable Member
for
Mr.
Ralph Eichler (
The
experiences that come with the Agriculture Awareness Day regarding the BSE
crisis is one. We certainly need no more history in that particular field;
however, the R-CALF announcement
last week and the follow-up to it yesterday in
The potato producers, we have not heard any more as far as the potato producers are concerned with their cut of six producers, is another industry that is being hard hit by the diets and other things that have come into place. Now we are talking about water preservation, and again that is an issue that is again quite important to both sides of the House, but we have to have water in order to irrigate those potatoes to keep the quality up, that we do not lose more contracts in that particular area.
The PMU industry, Mr. Speaker, is another industry that has been hit hard in the last seven months. That industry is going to be probably making more cuts by fall. That money will be going out of the economy forever, and I remind all honourable members that that money, once it has gone out of the cycle system, will be gone and has to be replaced with something else.
Mr.
Speaker, I notice the REDI program
was cut back. A number of dollars that usually goes into rural development is
down some $100 million, and they blame it on the VLTs, not helping them out
there. The VLT money is one part, but we drive the
Mr.
Speaker, we do not need VLTs for our windfalls in
The
elk and bison industry is another industry that has been hit very hard, Mr.
Speaker. The market in the bison industry with the plant being closed in
The only money they got out of that particular bison was meat value, and that was after they got the subsidy from the provincial government. If they would have put it on the cash advance program, as we had suggested, they would not have been forced to sell those cattle. It put a glut on the market. We as an industry are going to suffer for it for a long time to come.
When the border does open, hopefully the bison industry, if there are a few players left in that industry, hopefully they will be able to sustain it and get their marketplace back. It is definitely an industry that we are going to have to try and work with and try and save, Mr. Speaker.
In
regard to the TB wildlife herds in the
I notice my time is about up. I said I would just be a few minutes, but time goes fast when you are having fun. I am looking forward to hearing the rest of the debate on this. I know KAP is looking to try and work with Government to get into the tax situation. It is another area I never got to talk about, but a scenario I will definitely be bringing up in the future. I am looking forward to what the rest of the members have to say about this Agriculture Awareness Day that has been brought forward and encourage all members to get up and support it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Hon. Stan Struthers (Minister of Conservation): I am very pleased to rise today and give credit where credit is due. To the Member for Carman (Mr. Rocan), that is where credit is due on this one, along with the Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk), who have put forward this resolution, which I think is very important, moved by the Member for Carman, seconded by the Minister of Agriculture, supported I hope by every, single member in this Legislature to move forward on an Agriculture Awareness Day.
I
have to say, though, off the hop, that I am pretty disappointed at the way this
debate has gone. I just have to express my feeling that I think we are setting
the wrong parameters, the wrong attitude about
I
want to remind all members in this Legislature, every single one of us should
understand that only 3 percent–and the former Member for
We
have to understand that our country has been urbanizing for a long time. Over
80 percent of our country lives in 10 of the largest urban centres. Over 80
percent live in the 10 largest urban centres in
Mr. Speaker, we also have to remind people over and over and over again how important agriculture and the products that we produce, the goods that farmers produce, how absolutely essential that is to our Canadian lifestyle and to our quality of life.
* (11:10)
Mr. Speaker, I am afraid we are not doing that in this debate here in the Legislature on this very important resolution. I am very disappointed that we are missing the boat in that. We have got to convey, I think, the real reason for moving forward with this very positive resolution. It is not to squabble over the things that are going wrong in farming. I do not want to leave the impression that is all a bed of roses in the farm world and that every rural community is thriving. I do not want to leave that impression. I do not want to leave the impression rural Manitoba is not a good place to live either; which is what I am afraid we are going down the path of doing.
I
want to talk a little bit about the real reason that we should be pushing for
an agriculture awareness day, and that is to give Manitobans, give Canadians a
positive, Mr. Speaker, a very positive, very good understanding about what life
is like in small communities and on farms in our province. I do not think you
do it, although I enjoyed listening to the current Member for
It is something we can have some fun with, but at the same time I do not pretend that the border never closed. I do not ignore the impact that has been had by the PMU industry. I do not underestimate the impact that the drought has had on farming and on rural communities. I do not underestimate the impact that bovine tuberculosis has had on many of the constituents of mine in the Dauphin-Roblin constituency. I do not underestimate that.
At
the same time we must do a better job as farm people, as rural Manitobans, to
convey what a great part of the province we live in and to convey the absolute
dignity of earning your living by growing things from the earth, from raising
livestock. Mr. Speaker, we have to get across to people that that is a very
much acceptable way to live and that we do make a huge contribution to
I do not think we get that by implying that our urban brothers and sisters, our urban cousins, our urban friends do not understand farming or they need an education from rural Manitobans. My experience tells me that many of the people who live in the cities of our country may have a connection back to the farms, or for the vast majority are willing to investigate, to research, to talk to people who live in small communities, to talk to farmers.
I
do not believe that the people of
We all as Manitobans, we all as Canadians, have to do a much better job of understanding what it is like to live on a farm, what it is like to live in small communities and how important that is for our overall nation. I think what we should talk about is the rural way of life, the farm way of life.
I
think we should talk a little bit about the get-togethers through history and
through until today, the storytelling, the sharing of experiences. As a rural
Manitoban some of my fondest memories have to do with our little half-section
of land in the
That
is the kind of thing we need to be talking about. We need to talk about all the
celebrations that occur on a farm. Mr. Speaker, we need to talk about the
celebrations that occur in little communities. These celebrations that I know
so many of us in this room here today have taken part in, have helped organize,
have volunteered, have done the baking for, have gone to the hall to attend.
All these things are important and we have to convey that as a very positive
approach to what I think is a very important industry and a very important way
of life in
I think we also need to talk about the tough times. Goodness knows, in the past few years we are going to have lots of tough times to talk about to the next generation, or to talk about with our neighbours, or to share with our friends and neighbours who live in the cities of this country. We will have those tough times to talk about. But we have been through tough times before in agriculture. We have been through droughts, we have been through floods, we have been through low commodity prices. We have to learn from those times that we have been through because our grandparents and our parents developed some very skilful techniques in dealing with tough times in agriculture.
My
grandfather, when he was alive, used to talk about how tough it was to load up
a wagon of wheat, attach it to the horses and pull it into the elevator in
This is a positive resolution that does not need the bickering of politicians back and forth. This is an opportunity for us to talk about all the good things that happen out there on a farm, all the good things that happen in our small communities, and that is what I think we need to talk about in this resolution because there are a lot of good things happening. I think it is incumbent upon us who have lived on farms, who have lived in small communities, to talk to others who have not had that experience. To talk to others who have not had the advantage of living in these smaller settings. To talk to people who have not had a chance to live with neighbours right next to them. Talk about how important it is to communicate with neighbours who are down the road. Talk about how important it is to communicate with your little rural center that you cannot just walk across the street to.
I think we need to talk about those kinds of things when we talk about an Agriculture Awareness Day. I want to talk about a couple of outcomes that I am concerned about that have developed over a course of a period of years and, I think, could have been addressed through a positive approach like we are taking here with this resolution.
The first one I want to talk about is this misconception out there that farmers are bad for the environment. Some of the most environmentally aware people that I know live on farms. Mr. Speaker, some of the best environmental practices that I know are employed by farmers who are out on the fields working and earning a living and enjoying this way of life.
* (11:20)
We need to be able to talk about those things. The other practical benefit I see to this is that we need to talk about the number of farmers and family members who get hurt or killed every year on the farm. That is a huge issue that we need to be addressing. You see in the papers. You have got the big headlines. Anytime time there is a disaster with a mine or a disaster out on the ocean or a train wreck, we hear those things in the headlines. But every day somebody in farm country gets hurt, and we should know about that. We should talk to people about that.
Just
in conclusion, I want to say that this is a very positive step forward. Do not
forget the two facts that I have pointed out earlier. Only 3 percent of people
in
Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): I also would like to express my appreciation and congratulations to the member from Carman, Mr. Speaker, and the Minister of Agriculture for bringing forward the Agriculture Awareness Day.
I think it is very important for all of us to recognize agriculture as one of the biggest economic engines in our province. That would not be just farmers, but all of the spin-off industry that comes from that, whether it be agricultural machinery, farm equipment dealerships, even the marketing boards that are set up to market the farm products and all of the rural towns that support and have actually grown up around the agricultural industry.
It has been recognized that last year there were over 31 000 people employed in the agricultural sector. As I said, that would be in many of the areas, not just in farming. We all know that the number of farmers has decreased over the years as the large tracts of lands have amalgamated for economies of scale to allow the larger pieces of equipment to be actually more useful because they are costly and they need to farm more land to make the investment worthwhile.
When we think about farming, we think about the production of food. Food production, I think, is one, well, it is the most important thing. If you think about it, if we did not have food, if we had no production of food and we were unable to eat, Mr. Speaker, everything else would suddenly become very unimportant. So agriculture, even though we may forget where the food is coming from, is our source of food, and it must always be remembered that food does not come from the supermarket. There are many places in many big urban centres where there are probably children that have not been outside of the city and really do not recognize that food does not come from the supermarket, that it comes from those fields outside the city where those big pieces of equipment farm on the land.
We farm our grain crops, and from our grain crops come our cereals, come our bread. There are vegetables and all those market gardeners outside the city and along the riverbanks where the soil is very fertile and conducive to growing the food that we need. That is where the production takes place, so all those vegetables that appear in the supermarket, they come from somewhere, not just a warehouse. And, of course, let us not forget the animals on the farm that produce our meat and dairy products. Again, we are very dependent on farming communities and it is important to recognize food as being the main important thing in our lives.
Agriculture
is a very important part of rural
You know agriculture is faced with a lot of hardships. Recently, of course, we have had the BSE crisis and that has impacted significantly on producers of cattle. We have had drought in some areas of the province. There are many things that farmers face. It is a very risky business and they face a lot of hardships that people in urban centres may not appreciate or may never have to face. As I said, it is a very risky business and farmers are so reliant on the weather.
As
I speak in the House today, my own family is out on the land trying to put
their crops in. It is cold and it is not the weather they would want to have.
But the growing season is short. What they say in
Of course, Mr. Speaker, they are hoping for a high yield, but, inevitably, if you are a farmer, you know what high yields mean. They mean low prices. So, as I say, farming is a risky business. There are so many inputs, so many factors, so many environmental concerns, and farmers are environmentally friendly people. They recognize that they must be a steward to the land. The inputs that they put in, when fertilizer is put on the land, fertilizer is meant to stay in the soil and not run off on the water. What good would that be? Fertilizer is good for the ground, it is good for the crops.
I do not think that farmers get enough credit for the stewardship they do provide over the farmland, and I think that with Agriculture Awareness Day we need to congratulate them as well on being good stewards to the land. Farmers love their job. It is not a job to be a farmer, it is a way of life. It is a way of rural life. The farmers I know would trade it for nothing.
Having
grown up in a small farming community, I find it very sad to see the demise of
the edifice of the Prairies, that being the grain elevator. There was a time
when there was an elevator in every small town across
Of course, also, when we drove away and visited the big city of Winnipeg and we came back to the town that we lived in, the first thing that we saw across that Prairie sky was our elevator, and then we knew that we were home.
Now, I live in Headingley and we, just in the last few years, have seen the tearing-down of our grain elevator and another elevator at Mile Ten Six on Wilkes Avenue has also been torn down, and of course, these big grain elevators have been replaced by the magnificent concrete structures that there are much less of.
* (11:30)
Of course, we know why there are less of them. The Crow rate subsidies, Mr. Speaker, that were available to farmers have been removed, and farmers now must haul their grain a lot longer distances and this has resulted in economies of scale and much larger grain-handling facilities, but the unfortunate part is that our road system in rural Manitoba has not kept pace with the advances in the grain-handling industry.
Farmers have a lot longer to go to haul their grain. Mr. Speaker, they have to haul larger, heavier loads to make it economically worthwhile, and the road restrictions on many of the grain roads are simply not adequate to allow those heavy farm equipment pieces and those dual tandem trucks to haul their grain the distance that they need to go.
As
I mentioned, I think I did say that I grew up in a small town in rural
Manitoba, that being Austin, Manitoba, and I think Austin, people will
recognize here as the home of the Threshermen's Reunion. That was and is a huge
farming festival that started 50 years ago. In fact, this July-August long
weekend, the Austin Threshermen's
When I lived in that town, it was just starting and there were just a few pieces of old equipment and a few of the farming people in the region had a vision to create a museum for farming to keep and preserve the heritage of the farm and the history of the farm. If you were to visit and go to this festival, you would see the old steam engines of the past being brought back to life, and there are very few people left that have the skill to do that. I wonder how far into the future it will go before there are no farmers that have passed on their knowledge of how to run these steam engines and how to stook those sheaves so that these types of heritage museums and festivals will be preserved.
The member from Dauphin also talked about the number of crafts and bake sales and whatnot that people in rural communities contribute to for the number of farm festivals. Every year, there is a farm festival in every rural town in the province and they celebrate the agricultural spirit of the community. They are celebrating the growth of their crops because that is their livelihood. They celebrate a good season and they do that with their festivals and we all, from wherever we come, from have certainly been to those and participated in those.
So,
I think that, as I said earlier, the farmers are, right now, as I am speaking
here today, out putting their crops in. I like to talk about my own family who
are putting their crops in today, planting wheat and Canola along the
Mr. Speaker, I am hoping that the season will be a good one and that we will not see the things that we have seen in the past with some of the problems I have mentioned. I urge all the urban MLAs and all the people from urban centres to think about farming as a way of life, as a big contributor to the economy in the province, as the major food contributor to the province, and recognize the importance of farming.
We need to preserve our rural towns because that is the support network for the farmers and their families. I would discourage the industrialization of farming and the huge farm trucks run by large corporations. I would discourage that. Mr. Speaker, I think that would impede our farm life, our farmers, our small communities and I would not want to see that happen. I think that with Agriculture Awareness Day, we can promote the significance of agriculture, the importance of agriculture and the need to preserve agriculture for our food and for our way of life.
Having
said all that, I would like to congratulate the House again in setting aside a
day to celebrate and recognize agriculture in
Ms.
Marilyn Brick (St. Norbert): Mr. Speaker, I stand to
speak in favour of this private member's bill. I want to congratulate the
member from Carman for putting this forward. I think it is actually an
excellent idea to have an Agriculture Awareness Day. I commend him. I like to
think of myself as a city girl married to a country boy. I come from the city, but I actually married a fellow who comes
from
I
would like to say that on April 3, Mr. Speaker, I attended the 4-H Western
I
would also like to say that in St. Norbert we are blessed with a very important
institution, the
Mr.
Speaker, our Government fully supports increasing agriculture awareness. We
think this is a fabulous idea to have this bill come forward and for people to
be aware of the importance of food, the importance that it plays in our lives.
When we talk about things like soybeans, potatoes, new seeds that Syngenta is
putting forward, all of this is making our whole industry in terms of
agriculture change. I do not think that a lot of people are aware that one in
ten jobs can be directly attributed to agriculture. It is important that we
make agriculture known to people who live in the cities as well as it is known
to people who live in rural
I
also attended the Royal Manitoba Winter Fair March 31 and April 1 in
* (11:40)
So, on this side of the House, Mr. Speaker, we do support the introduction of Agriculture Awareness Day. I just wanted to stand and say congratulations to the Member for Carman for putting this forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr.
Kevin Lamoureux (
Mr. Speaker, I have had opportunity from my childhood to become more and more acquainted with the agricultural community. I can recall as a child actually going out to a farm and being hoisted on to a tractor, which was quite an exciting time at that time, and enjoyed it tremendously. It left an impact, especially the one day we were cultivating the field, I guess, and he said, "You know, you cover the gopher holes, so if you want you can go and run and chase some gophers." It was quite the experience.
I say that because agriculture is something in which, I believe, the more you get into, the more you want to get a better understanding of. So even from that early time to this day, I can recall having drive-throughs with our former critic back in '88-89, Lawrie Evans, who was pointing out the difference between flax and other types of crops.
I remember hearing the Leader of the Liberal Party talk about the diversification, ethanol and the potential of ethanol. There is so much diversity within our farms. The crop that everyone is familiar with is of course wheat, but Canola, ethanol, there are all sorts of vegetable farms. The farming industry as a whole has contributed from the origins of our province to this day and will continue to do so.
Driving
one day out in rural
There
is a great feeling, as a Manitoban, seeing our farmers hard at work, feeling so
good knowing that this produce that is coming from the land is actually feeding
the world. Even though it is a small percentage that actually have the
privilege, and when I say privilege, you know, it is hard work, I know it is
hard work, many of the farmers that I have talked to, that we are contributing
to the world through the production that we do here in
So even though a vast majority of Manitobans do not really have the opportunity to work the fields like our farmers, I think that we all take a great sense of pride of the hard work that is done in our rural communities because we see the net benefit for the province, not only economically, but also socially. It has been such a wonderful thing for our province, that is one of the reasons we exist the way in which we do today.
Mr. Speaker, there are industries that, obviously, have changed. I remember debate in this Chamber about the sugar beet industry. There are other industries that have actually grown, the Canola industry, and it is important that government do what it can to assist our farmers. The BSE is another good example, weather conditions, there are things that occur at no fault to our farmers in which, at times, there is a need for government to be proactive and be there for our agricultural community.
So,
having said that, I do believe that it is important that we support this
resolution. I would have liked to see the Pool of the Black Star, and I use
that as an example, we get thousands of people, children that come to our
Legislature, I would love to see some sort of a mural that would reflect the
history of our province from an agricultural point of view, from a
multicultural point of view, just to give some heritage and use that Pool of
the Black Star, get some sort of a mural. We see beautiful murals throughout
the city of
I think that there is some merit for doing something of that nature, that not only should we recognize a day but have the Pool of the Black Star or some other space within the Legislature, so as get tourists coming through, Mr. Speaker, that we are reminded. We get so many people young people that have tours. We should remind them of the benefits of our province and all the different dynamics at work, and agriculture is second to no other.
With those few words, Mr. Speaker, we are quite prepared to see this resolution, in fact, voted upon, and we suspect it will be supported by all MLAs inside this Chamber. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker: Any other speakers?
Is the House ready for the question?
An Honourable Member: Question.
Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is the resolution moved by the honourable Member for Carman (Mr. Rocan), seconded by the honourable Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives (Ms. Wowchuk).
Is
it the pleasure of the House to adopt the resolution? [Agreed]
Is there a will to show unanimous support? [Agreed]
Is there a will of the House to call it twelve o'clock? [Agreed] The hour being twelve noon, we will now recess and we will reconvene at 1:30 p.m.