LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF
Wednesday, March 9, 2005
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
PRAYERS
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Highway 200
Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.
These are the reasons for this petition:
Highway 200 is paved from
Due to unsafe conditions, many drivers look to alternate routes around this section when possible and time permits. The condition of the gravel road can cause serious damage to all vehicles.
Insufficient traffic counts are not truly reflective of the traffic volumes because users tend to find another route to avoid this section. Traffic counts done after spring seeding, during wet weather or during school recess are not indicative of traffic flows.
Maintenance costs for unpaved highways are high and ongoing. It would be cost-effective to pave this section.
We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:
To request that the Minister of Transportation and Government Services (Mr. Lemieux) consider paving Highway 200 between highways 205 and 305 to ensure a smooth, safe and uninterrupted use of Highway 200.
Signed by Melanie Waddingham, Doreen Murray, Glenn Ginn and others.
Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our Rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House.
Provincial Road 355
Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.
These are the reasons for this petition:
The unsafe conditions of PR No. 355 from the western edge of Minto municipality to PR No. 270 (including the hill out of the Minnedosa valley), poses an undue risk to Manitobans who must travel on this roadway.
The steady stream of traffic on this stretch of PR No. 355, which includes automobiles such as "B" train semi-trailer tractors, mail delivery vehicles and school buses, make the roadway in its current state dangerously impassable.
Continued expansion of the regional economy in livestock development, grain storage and transportation and the proposed Mohawk Plant, puts additional strain on PR No. 355 and creates further safety concerns form motorists.
PR No. 355 experiences an increased risk in traffic flow during the spring season when there are weight restrictions on surrounding provincial trunk highways.
For several years, representatives of six municipality corporations, as well as an ad hoc citizens' group have been actively lobbying the provincial government to upgrade and reconstruct the stretch of PR No. 355 at issue.
Manitobans and visitors to the province deserve a better rural highway infrastructure.
We petition the Manitoba Legislative Assembly as follows:
To request the Minister of Transportation and Government Services (Mr. Lemieux) to consider upgrading PR No. 355 from the western edge of the R.M. of Minto to PR No. 270 (including the hill out of the Minnedosa valley).
To request the Premier of
Manitoba (Mr. Doer) to consider supporting the said initiative to ensure the
safety of our Manitobans and all Canadians who travel along
Signed by Heather Duncan, Graeme Duncan and Doug Baker.
* (13:35)
Minimum Sitting Days for
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (
The background to this petition is as follows:
The Manitoba Legislature sat for only 35 days in 2003. In 2004, there were 55 sitting days.
The number of sitting days has a direct impact on the issue of public accountability.
The Legislative Assembly provides the best forum for all MLAs to debate and ask questions of the government and it is critical that all MLAs be provided the time needed in order for them to cover constituent and party duties.
Establishing a minimum number of sitting days could prevent the government of the day from limiting the rights of opposition members from being able to ask questions.
We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:
To request the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba to consider recognizing the need to sit for a minimum of 80 days in any given calendar year.
Signed by Francis Pineda, Rey Operana, Cel Mendoza and others.
Westman Area Physician
Shortage
Mr. Cliff Cullen (
These are the reasons for the petition:
The Westman region
serving
As a result of the severe
shortage of pediatricians to serve the Westman area,
The chiefs of the departments of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Family Practice and Anesthesia at the Brandon Regional Health Centre have publicly voiced their concern regarding the potentially disastrous consequences of the shortage.
The Minister of Health
(Mr. Sale) has stated that
Doctors have warned that if the current situation is prolonged, it may result in further loss of services or the departure of other specialists who find the situation unmanageable.
We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:
To strongly urge the
Minister of Health to consider taking charge and ensuring that he will improve
long-term planning efforts to develop a lasting solution to the chronic problem
of pediatrician and other specialist shortages in
To strongly urge the Minister of Health to treat this as the crisis that it is and consider consulting with front-line workers, particularly doctors, to find solutions.
To strongly urge the Minister of Health and the Premier of Manitoba to consider ending highway medicine now.
Signed Carolyn Ramage, Christine Jefferies, Tiffany Minchuk and others.
* (13:40)
Ambulance Service
Mr. Ron Schuler (
These are the reasons for this petition:
In May 2004, 46-year-old Peter Krahn suffered a heart attack while exercising in East St. Paul and was pronounced dead just under an hour later after being transported to the Concordia Hospital in Winnipeg. Reports show that it took nearly 18 minutes for an ambulance to arrive for Mr. Krahn.
The Interlake Regional
Health Authority claims that 21 minutes is an acceptable emergency response
time, whereas the City of
Ambulance coverage for
The municipalities of
East St. Paul and
We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:
To request the provincial
government to consider providing East St. Paul with local ambulance service
which would service both East and
To request the provincial government to consider improving the way that ambulance service is supplied to all Manitobans by utilizing technologies such as GPS in conjunction with a Medical Transportation Co-ordination Centre (MTCC) which will ensure that patients receive the nearest ambulance in the least amount of time.
To request the provincial government to consider ensuring that appropriate funding is provided to maintain superior response times and sustainable services.
Signed by Robyn Unruh, Connie Scarth and Larry Scarth.
Standing Committee on
Legislative Affairs
Second Report
Mr. Daryl Reid (Chairperson): Mr. Speaker, I ask for leave to present the report of the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs.
Mr. Speaker: Is there leave? [Agreed]
Mr. Reid: I wish to present the Second Report on the Standing Committee of Legislative Affairs.
Madam
Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs
presents the following as its Second Report.
Mr.
Speaker: Dispense?
Some
Honourable Members: Dispense.
Meetings:
Your
main committee met on the following occasions:
Thursday,
December 2, 2004, at 10 a.m. in Room 254 of the
Tuesday,
December 21, 2004, at 1 p.m. in Room 255 of the
Thursday,
March 3, 2005, at 9:30 a.m. at 1023 – 405 Broadway (in camera)
Your
sub-committee met on the following occasions. All meetings took place in Room
1023 – 405 Broadway:
Thursday,
January 6, 2005, at 10 a.m.
Monday,
January 31, 2005, at 1 p.m.
Tuesday,
February 1, 2005, at 10 a.m.
Monday,
February 7, 2005, at 2 p.m.
Wednesday,
February 9, 2005, at 9 a.m.
Thursday,
February 10, 2005, at 1 p.m.
Matters
Under Consideration:
Recruitment
and Selection of the Children’s Advocate
Recruitment
and Selection of the Ombudsman
Committee Membership:
Substitutions made prior to the
December 2, 2004, meeting:
Hon.
Mr. Mackintosh for Hon. Mr. Smith
At
the December 21, 2004, meeting, your committee elected Ms. Korzeniowski as
Chairperson.
Substitutions
made prior to the December 21, 2004, meeting:
Mrs.
Taillieu for Mr. Eichler
Ms.
Korzeniowski for Mr. Reid
Mr.
Schellenberg for Mr. Nevakshonoff
Mr.
Santos for Mr. Martindale
At
the March 3, 2005, meeting, your committee elected Mr. Reid as Chairperson.
Substitutions
made prior to the March 3, 2005, meeting:
Mr.
Schellenberg for Hon. Mr. Ashton
Mr.
Reid for Ms. Korzeniowski
Mr.
Aglugub for Hon. Mr. Doer
Mr.
Altemeyer for Hon. Mr. Chomiak
Mr.
Goertzen for Mr. Murray
Mr.
Eichler for Mr. Loewen
Mr.
Dyck for Mr. Eichler
Mr.
Loewen for Mr. Dyck
Motions Adopted and
Reported:
Motion adopted at the
December 21, 2004, meeting
THAT a sub-committee of the Standing Committee on
Legislative Affairs consisting of:
Kerri Irvin-Ross
Greg Dewar
Kevin Lamoureux
Kelvin Goertzen
Daryl Reid, as Chairperson
be struck to establish the selection criteria, the
advertisement, conduct the screening and interviews and provide to this
Committee their recommendation of the appointment of the individuals to fill
the positions of the Ombudsman and of the Children’s Advocate.
Sub-Committee Report
At
the March 3, 2005, meeting, the sub-committee reported that it had met in
camera on Thursday, January 6, 2005, at 10 a.m., Monday, January 31, 2005, at 1
p.m., Tuesday, February 1, 2005, at 10 a.m., Monday, February 7, 2005, at 2
p.m., Wednesday, February 9, 2005, at 9 a.m., and Thursday, February 10, 2005,
at 1 p.m.
The sub-committee reported
that one hundred and fifty-eight
applications were received for the position of the Ombudsman, and from these
applications, interviews were held with six (6) candidates. Interviews were
held on February 7 and 9. Following from these interviews, on February 10, the
sub-committee agreed to recommend to the Standing Committee of Legislative
Affairs that Irene Hamilton be the nominee for the position of the Ombudsman in
Manitoba.
Items
agreed to at the March 3, 2005, Meeting
Your
committee has agreed to make its report
to the Lieutenant-Governor-in-Council with the recommendation that Irene
Hamilton be appointed as the Ombudsman for the
* (13:45)
Mr.
Reid: I move, seconded by the honourable Member for
Motion agreed to.
Bill 15–The Emergency
Measures
Amendment Act
Hon. Scott Smith (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Culture, Heritage and Tourism (Mr. Robinson), that Bill 15, The Emergency Measures Amendment Act, be now read a first time.
Motion presented.
Mr. Smith: Mr. Speaker, this bill authorizes the Province to enter into agreements with other jurisdictions regarding emergency planning and providing assistance during emergencies. It deals with the qualifications of people from other jurisdictions who provide emergency assistance in Manitoba as well as a liability for their actions while being in Manitoba.
Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed]
Introduction of Guests
Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today James Sesak, who is the president of the Transcona Historical Museum Board, Sheryl Kolt, who is the curator and also Kimberly Hiebert, who is the collections registrar and interpreter. They are the guests of the honourable Member for Radisson (Mr. Jha), and also the honourable Member for Transcona (Mr. Reid).
Also in the public gallery we have from River West Park School 18 Grade 9 students under the direction of Mrs. Jennifer Saunders. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Member for Charleswood (Mrs. Driedger).
Also in the public gallery we have from Riverton Collegiate 25 Grade 11 students under the direction of Mrs. Tammy Einarson. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Member for the Interlake (Mr. Nevakshonoff).
On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today.
Budget Speech
Residential Property Taxes
Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader
of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, this NDP
government should be very, very embarrassed by the budget that they brought in
yesterday. On Monday, in this Legislature, we introduced a motion of urgent
public importance about the crisis facing our rural agriculture cattle
producers. We debated that and, in fact, after that we passed an all-party
resolution unanimously, sponsored by the government, talking about this issue
on why there should be action supporting our cattle producers in rural
Mr. Speaker, 24 hours later they introduced a budget, not one mention of BSE, not one mention in the document. This NDP government was–
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition has the floor.
Mr. Murray: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. This year there has been $470 million in transfer payments. In the foreseeable future that will map out to some $300 million per year. Over and above that, this NDP government is getting $1.7 billion in health dollars for 10 years and another $180 million for child care for over 5 years. Lots of revenue in this province.
What this Premier failed
to do, Mr. Speaker, was he failed to make
* (13:50)
Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I would refer to page 1 of the budget. We recognized
the setback cattle and ruminant producers are experiencing following the
recent
Mr. Speaker, the budget has been received–[interjection]
Mr. Speaker: Order. We are very early into Question Period. The members who wish to ask a question, the ministers who wish to reply, will have ample opportunity. Right now the honourable First Minister has the floor, and we need some decorum.
Mr. Doer: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also recall on Monday, the member opposite was calling on the government to put more money into the rainy day fund. Check, that happened in this budget. He asked us to keep our commitment on tax reductions. Check, that has been kept in the budget. He asked us to follow both the balanced budget legislation and the GAAP accounting procedures. Check. I expect the members opposite will vote for this budget.
Child Care
Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader
of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, we have
seen massive increases of revenue that would have provided this NDP government to do
once-in-a-lifetime opportunities here in
Mr. Speaker, even though
the NDP government is going to receive some $180 million from
Why did this Premier, when he had the opportunity, not introduce a plan so that child care parents and child care workers could better plan their futures? Why did he fail to do that?
Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): The would-have, could-have, should-have party across the way raised taxes on farmland when members opposite, sitting on the front bench, were in the Cabinet. They know that. That is why their heads are down, Mr. Speaker. They should be ashamed of themselves. We have lowered the tax on education taxes on farmland by 50 percent. They should be voting with farmers to lower the taxes instead of playing politics in this House.
Mr. Speaker, I need no
lectures from members opposite. I remember tabling a Treasury Board document
when I was the Leader of the Opposition, written by Jules Benson, that said we will put $10 million more
in the budget for child care, and we will cut that and borrow through lapsed
funding as a deliberate budget strategy. We have thousands more spaces here in
Municipal Revenue Sharing
Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, what we are clearly hearing from this Premier is they do not have a can-do attitude; they have a can-spend attitude. That is what we hear time and time again from this group.
This NDP government thinks they know how to spend Manitobans' hardworking tax dollars better than they do, Mr. Speaker. That is the unfortunate part. With the level of increased revenues we have seen coming into the Province this year, the unprecedented level of revenue, and knowing of the revenue that is coming in the years to follow, the missed opportunity is that this NDP government did not lay out a plan for a new deal for municipalities.
The City of
* (13:55)
Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased municipalities have recognized, for the first time in 10 years after former Minister Ernst froze the transit operating grants to the municipalities, that we have increased the transit grants dramatically for Winnipeg, for Brandon, for Flin Flon, for Thompson.
We have a revenue-sharing
agreement with municipalities that is the second best in
Let me read some comments
made by independent financial analysts. The Scotiabank: "Much as
Manitoba's economic development is focussed on staged improvements that yield a
considerable cumulative impact over several years, tax reduction both personal
and corporate represents one aspect of the strategy. A main plank of this
province's economic plank is fiscal repair.
I could go on. I know they cannot handle the truth, Mr. Speaker, but every tax promise we have made, we have kept. Every one.
Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet.
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Mr. Speaker: Order. I have recognized the honourable member for Lac du Bonnet. He has the floor.
Budget Speech
Government Deficit
Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, the NDP government has had a once-in-a-lifetime increase in revenues of $524 million this year alone. The NDP lost an opportunity to pay down the debt of this province, but chose to spend it all and then some by increasing the net debt of the province by another $359 million. Why does the Minister of Finance not stop his reckless spending and pay down the debt?
Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, when we came into office, the contribution you were making to paying down the debt was $75 million. In this budget it is $110 million. It is a dramatic increase over when you were in office. Our debt-servicing costs were 7.5 percent when we came into office. They are now at 3.3 percent, less than half of what you paid when you were in office.
Mr. Speaker: Order. I would like to remind all honourable members when putting a question or answering a question, please put it to the Chair.
Mr. Hawranik: Mr. Speaker, the net debt of the province will be increased by $359 million this year, in spite of the Finance Minister's statements that he balanced the budget and he paid down the debt. How could Manitobans believe that the NDP have paid down the debt and balanced the budget when by the government's very own numbers, the debt increased by $359 million?
Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, the member opposite has failed to understand that we have reduced the debt-to-GDP ratio from 21 percent to 15.8 percent since we have come to office. We have grown this economy by $10 billion since we have been elected.
Mr. Hawranik: Mr. Speaker, the Finance Minister has thrown so many numbers out in this House that even he is confused by his numbers. The NDP government has a long history of increasing the debt of this province. The NDP has increased the net debt of the province by more than $3 billion since 1999, a record that even Howard Pawley would be proud of. You have increased the debt of every Manitoban this year by almost $350 in a year in which revenues are at a historic high.
When will the NDP stop their uncontrolled spending and come up with a realistic plan to pay down the debt?
Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, our debt-to-GDP ratio is down. Our economy has grown by $10 billion or 33 percent since we have come to office. I remember the member opposite crying for a new school in his area. We built that school. Now he does not want to pay for it.
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
* (14:00)
Mr. Speaker: Order. I recognized the honourable Member for Tuxedo. I am sure she appreciates the applause, but the longer it goes the fewer questions we are going to get.
Budget Speech
Government Deficit
Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. This NDP government lost an opportunity yesterday to provide hope for the future of young people in Manitoba. Yesterday this NDP government had a choice between paying down the debt, which they chose instead to increase by some $359 million, and feeding their spending habit. Naturally they chose the NDP way: spend, spend, spend.
Does this NDP government not recognize their reckless spending habit is mortgaging the future of young people in this province?
Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Members opposite do not understand the difference between using a credit card to pay for your groceries–what they did when they ran deficits in the nineties–and having expenditures, having investments in things like hospitals, schools, roads, infrastructure, clean water and improving our Hydro. When we built Limestone, they complained about it. It paid itself off in 10 years, and it has generated profits for this province ever since. The assets in this province, Mr. Speaker, are worth $23 billion in replacement costs. These members do not even know what that is worth.
Mrs. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, if this government had the opportunity to take candy from a kid, they would not hesitate. Welcome to NDP Manitoba. We, on this side of the House, recognize the burden the NDP government is placing on our children's future, and we will not stand by to let this happen without a fight.
Will the Minister of Finance come clean today to Manitoba's youth and admit that their spending habit will mortgage their future in Manitoba?
Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, when we came into office, the members opposite had ignored all the advice they received to deal with the pension liability for school teachers and civil servants. It had grown to $3 billion. We put the first plan in place to deal with that liability which had grown for over 40 years. We have started funding that plan. The bond rating agencies have seen our debt pension liability plan. They have increased our credit ratings. I put a lot more confidence in an improved credit rating than the nonsense coming from the members opposite.
Mrs. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, the NDP seems content to mortgage the future of
Mr. Speaker, why does this government continue to refuse to admit that they have a spending problem that will mortgage our children's future in this province?
Mr. Selinger: Perhaps the member would examine the facts. The proportion of the provincial economy occupied by the provincial government expenditure is about 18.7 percent, virtually the same as when they were in office. Our contribution to this economy has remained stable. The difference is we have made strategic investments which have grown this economy by $10 billion in the last six years.
Budget Speech
Rural Initiatives
Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste.
Rose): Mr. Speaker, people in rural Manitoba are
surprised that this government is almost insulted that we would question their
spending priorities. They barely mentioned agriculture, rural
Mr. Speaker, a missed opportunity to put in place a plan. Where is the plan for rural Manitoba to restore the economy that is currently floundering?
Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives): I am quite surprised, Mr. Speaker. He must be listening to different rural Manitobans than I am because the rural Manitobans that I am listening to are quite impressed that they have seen this kind of increase in an agriculture budget, a budget increase of 19.4 percent. When you look at the reductions in taxes, $20 million will be available for farmers because we have made the decision to reduce the farm education tax in this province, an investment to increase the supports for farmers under the programs that they have asked for such as CAIS, and for a commitment to invest in slaughter capacity in this province.
Mr. Speaker, this government has worked with rural Manitobans and will continue to work with rural Manitobans. I hope we can have their support as we try to get through this difficult time that farmers are having.
Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, rural Manitobans are saying where is agriculture.
Everywhere, but in the budget. From Keystone Agricultural Producers, we will
support a plan, but that is what budgets are about, a plan, a vision, a
direction, some hope that they will deal with the problems that are being faced
with in rural
Madam Minister, there are a lot of young rural Manitobans that want to know if they have a chance. Do you have a plan?
Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, an increase of a budget of 19.4 percent is a significant increase and sends a very strong message to rural Manitobans that we are there with them. We have been with them. We have programs in place. The member talks about young farmers. I hope he will recognize the program that we put in place through Bridging Generations to help the next generation of farmers get started that they did not support.
Our government recognizes the importance of this industry, and we will continue to work with the industry. I hope we can have the support of the members opposite to vote for a budget that puts 19.4 percent more money into agriculture than there was previously.
Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, the title of this ministry is Agriculture, Food and Rural Initiatives. This minister and this government are miserably failing to live up to that title, let alone respond to what is needed in rural Manitoba at this time in our history. We are looking for a plan. We are looking for some vision.
For the minister to simply say, "Well, I have got $20 million." That is a nice piece of money, but where is the plan? What direction, what leadership are we getting to deal with the initiatives that have been going begging in rural Manitoba? She cannot even convince the farm leaders of this province that they care about agriculture. Where is the plan, Madam Minister?
Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, if the member wants I can start bringing out some
documents. We did a discussion plan. We put forward Destination 2010. We have
done a reorganization of the department in order to address many of the issues
that are out there. Yes, we have added food. We have added rural development,
and we are looking for opportunities with the producers and people of rural
We are looking for ways and are putting staff in place to work as the industry has asked us for. They may not listen to the industry, but when we were doing this reorganization we consulted with the industry. They helped us put a plan in place. I hope the members opposite will recognize that the industry was part of this plan, and work with us to help rural Manitoba rather than just being critical.
Auto Theft
Reduction Strategy
Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, over the past six years the current NDP Minister of Justice has sat back and done nothing as record levels of murders have taken place in the city of Winnipeg, as two new outlaw motor gangs have set up in the province and as auto thefts have increased to 13.5 thousand every year in this province.
Yesterday, the Minister of Justice missed another opportunity to address these very serious issues, instead announcing that someday there will be another announcement. After six long years, why has this Minister of Justice not been able to address these very serious issues?
Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I suggest that the honourable member must have mixed up his file papers, Mr. Speaker, and started reading a Conservative budget. Ours addressed many, many issues related to justice. I am very pleased with what is in the budget.
Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker, if this minister wants to table a plan on auto theft, table a plan on gangs and table a plan on guns on our streets, I would be happy to see it.
This week a newspaper in
* (14:10)
Mr. Speaker, other areas of the country are getting a handle on this serious social problem, but this Minister of Justice for six years has put out meaningless news releases and has said stay tuned for future announcements. We cannot afford any more lost opportunities. What is his plan to deal with auto theft in this province?
Mr. Mackintosh: Which reminds me, Mr. Speaker, of how auto theft increased I believe
it was 400 percent under the watch of members opposite in
Mr. Speaker: Order.
Mr. Mackintosh: So close to the bone, Mr. Speaker.
Unlike members opposite, we have been working hard to reduce this and deal with this stubborn epidemic that grew out of their negligence, but we are determined to bring down those numbers. I understand that today, unfortunately, the federal government has decided that it will not be a robust partner in this. We will do what we can in this province at least.
Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker, it is ironic that the government is happy to take the federal government's money but wants to blame them when it comes to something they could do on auto theft.
Last year alone, the increase in auto theft in our province was more than the total number of autos stolen in 1990. In Saskatchewan, there was a 33% reduction in auto theft over the last couple of years. They did it by identifying and classifying offenders, and then ensuring the probation officers had the resources to follow those offenders. On the issue of auto theft, other jurisdictions have become doers. Our government has become ditherers. What is your plan?
Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, I sense some veiled attack on policing efforts in this question. I want to remind members opposite that the crime of auto theft can be dealt with by way of immobilizers, but also in the short term, must be dealt with by way of effective measures to make sure that those auto thieves who are threatening the safety of Manitobans are brought to justice. We are working with law enforcement, with MPI. We are working with community agencies on a comprehensive strategy.
I might remind members
opposite, when they had an opportunity to deal with a triple-digit increase in
auto theft, they ordered a bunch of signs for our parking lots to remind people
that they should take efforts to reduce the risk of auto theft. They went and
put them into the
Education System
Funding
Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, yesterday was an opportunity to reform an archaic education funding system and take the tax burden off property owners. I would like to ask the Minister of Education this. Why did he leave this whole education funding system in such a mess? Why did he let this one opportunity, this golden opportunity, slip through his fingers?
Hon. Peter Bjornson (Minister of Education, Citizenship and Youth): Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to stand on our record on school funding. I am reminded daily why members opposite wanted history out of the classroom as a compulsory subject, because it holds people accountable.
The history of the members opposite's announcements, wonderful announcements, of 2% decrease, 2.6% decrease, 0, 2% decrease, maybe they need a math lesson as well, Mr. Speaker. We have been funding education at the rate of economic growth. We promised to do that every year. We have done it for six years. This year was an announcement, the second-highest increase in education funding in real dollars in 10 years, and, by the way, the highest announcement was also under this government.
Mrs. Driedger: I would remind the minister that he is only funding 56 percent of education operating in Manitoba in the first place. Mr. Speaker, by not taking full responsibility for education funding, the NDP is forcing school boards to do their dirty work. They are washing their hands of their problem and blaming school boards for raising taxes.
I would like to ask the Minister of Education this. Why is he offloading education funding to school boards and making the school trustees the villains when he in fact has that responsibility?
Mr. Bjornson: An analysis of the FRAME budget, and I suggest my critic take a look at the FRAME budgets over the last few years. From 1990 to 1999, Winnipeg School Division had an increase of 53.2 percent. From 1999 to 2004, a decrease of 5.9 percent. Turtle Mountain, a 49.4% increase from '90-99, and here it has been a decrease of 11.9 percent.
We delivered on our promise to reduce the education support levy once again, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, a very good announcement for farmers, $20 million and the 50% reduction on farm property as well as their ESL reduction, as mentioned yesterday, $30 million. Those are real numbers, real facts. We are a government that is committed to education.
Mrs. Driedger: So far all of the draft education budgets that have come forward have asked for a tax increase from property tax owners. There are almost a quarter million Manitobans right now up in arms about the NDP's piecemeal approach to funding education.
I would like to ask the Minister of Education this. What is he going to do about this growing tax revolt? Where is his plan? Where is his leadership to deal with education funding in this province and to take it off the backs of property owners?
Mr. Bjornson: Mr. Speaker, we fund 71 percent of the true cost of education including capital. My critic referred to our capital plan as a shell game. In a shell game, let us take a look at our three-year capital plan. Look under shell No. 1. Oh, $45 million; shell No. 2, $45 million; shell No. 3, $45 million. That is not a shell game. Members opposite in their capital plan were like let us make a deal. Had you chosen door No. 2, we would have built the Brandon hospital, but you chose a door that gives us $16.8 million in capital funding for the entire school system in Manitoba.
Budget Speech
Health Research
Hon. Jon Gerrard (
I ask the minister responsible for the Manitoba Health Research Council why he is showing so little support for health research and for the change, improvement and accountability which it provides to health care.
Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Energy, Science and Technology): Mr. Speaker, the member talks about research spending back 15 years when he was a member of the federal government and was significantly underfunding the health care system.
I notice that in the last several years, several million dollars, in addition, have gone in and have been leveraged into health research in Manitoba, the nutraceutical centre, the Richardson centre, St. Boniface Hospital, the Asper centre, biodiagnostics and the list goes on and on and on. We have leveraged money both from our partners in the federal government who have been co-operative in this regard in the last several years, as well as from private sector firms, as well as matching money from provincial contributions that have increased overall, not decreased as the member has implied.
Budget Speech
Sport and Fitness
Hon. Jon Gerrard (
Is it any wonder that
Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister responsible for Sport): I am very happy to report that, in fact, for the first time in a number of years, Sport Manitoba will be receiving 5 percent of a promised 10% increase.
* (14:20)
Mr. Gerrard: It is a sorry day when a 5% increase still leaves this government 30% below what the Sport budget was in 1996. The fact is that, on relative terms, we should be looking at sport and fitness as prevention of sickness, of improving health and that budget should be the front edge of investing in improving health. Yet, that budget has not increased anywhere near what the health budget has done for looking after people who are sick. So, we all know we should be investing in health and wellness, and yet this government has failed miserably. This government can do better.
Mr. Robinson: Mr. Speaker, I am very happy to report to the Member for River Heights, the tremendous efforts that the sporting community have put in finding more innovative ways to make our fellow Manitobans healthier; activities such as the bilateral initiative that we have engaged with the federal government on give people in remote and northern communities that do not ordinarily have opportunities to get involved in recreational opportunities, trails initiatives, recreational trails.
Let me repeat to the member that the 5 percent I indicated was a promised 10% increase back in the 2003 election. We will achieve that 10 percent probably next year, Mr. Speaker.
Mining Industry
Investment Opportunities
Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin
Flon): Mr. Speaker, the
Hon. Jim Rondeau (Minister of Industry, Economic Development and Mines): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report to the House that I had participated in the Toronto Mining Convention. It is a good convention where all the mining industry gather to talk about what is happening in the industry, et cetera. I am pleased to report to this House today two important things were reported. One was that there was an excellent article in The Financial Post that said we have lots of exploration. There is diamond exploration and mineral exploration at record levels in the province.
I am also pleased to report to the member and the entire House that the Fraser Institute this year reported Manitoba No. 1 in mining policy and No. 3 in the entire world. We have a great mineral potential. We have a great industry, and it is providing good employment and excellent growth. We should all be proud of those people in this industry.
Budget Speech
Competitive Tax Structure
Mr. John Loewen (
For the sixth year in a
row the Business Council of Manitoba, which represents 65 000 employees
and over $25-billion in sales, has urged this government finally to make this
province competitive. Once again, this Finance Minister has chosen to ignore
them. Mr. Speaker, the briefing from the Business Council of Manitoba indicates
that
Mr. Speaker, I would ask
the Minister of Finance if he could explain to the Business Council of
Manitoba, who have been successful in growing small businesses to very large businesses,
why he refuses to make
Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, according to evidence we have here, since '99, corporate profits have gone up $2.6 billion to $4.15 billion, an increase of 60 percent. Corporate profits have never done so well in this province. This economy has grown $10 billion. We reduced taxes for the first time since the Second World War, something you did not have the courage to do.
We have doubled the threshold for the small business rate. We have reduced by 50 percent the small business rate. We have increased the capital gain. We have increased the deduction for capital from up to $5 million, something you never did before. This year the Manufacturing Investment Tax Credit has a refundable portion, never done before in the history of the province.
Mr. Speaker: I have a ruling for the House.
The time had expired for Question Period, and I have a ruling for the House.
During the Throne Speech debate on
Wednesday, December 1, 2004, a point of order was raised by the honourable
Minister of Water Stewardship (Mr. Ashton), regarding comments spoken in debate
by the honourable Member for
I have had a chance to read the entire
exchange, including the point of order raised by the honourable Member for
Although at times members can get carried
away in the heat of debate, and strong emotions are often expressed by both
sides of the Chamber, I am truly troubled by what I read, for a number of
reasons. To paraphrase what I had earlier advised the House on that same day
after delivering a ruling regarding the report of the Public Accounts
Committee, when a Speaker makes a ruling, and if members disagree with that
ruling, members have the option of ch
It is a long-standing practice of this and
other Legislatures that it is not appropriate to reflect on the Speaker or
presiding officer. This principle is supported by a number of procedural
authorities. Beauchesne Citation
71(1) states that the Speaker should be protected against reflections on his or
her actions. Marleau and Montpetit advise on page 266 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice that the actions of the
Speaker are not to be criticized in debate or by any means except by way of a
substantive motion. They continue by indicating that reflections on the
character or actions of the Speaker, such as an
Other improper reflections on the Speaker
are also subject to House action. The twenty-third edition of Erskine May advises on page 220 that
reflections on the character or actions of the Speaker may be punished as
breaches of privilege. His actions cannot be criticized incident
There are also numerous rulings from
previous Manitoba Speakers, including Speakers Murray, Hanuschak, Walding,
Phillips, Rocan and Dacquay which indicate that it is inappropriate to be
reflecting on the Chair, and in each case where a member was found to be
reflecting on the Chair, the member in question was c
I would also like to note for the House that
in his comments, the honourable Member for
After carefully reading the comments of
the honourable Member for
* (14:30)
Mr. Ron Schuler (
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Mr. Speaker: Order. I do not accept a partial withdrawal and a partial apology. The withdrawal and the apology are reflecting on the Chair of the Speaker.
All rulings of the Chair are very serious matters. I ask the co-operation of all honourable members. I need to hear every word that is spoken.
Mr. Schuler: I will clarify that. I would like to withdraw and apologize not just to the Chair but also to the table officers.
Mr. Speaker: That I will accept, and that should conclude the matter. That should take care of the matter.
Point of Order
Mr. Leonard Derkach (Official Opposition House Leader): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker: On a new point of order.
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, I do this with great hesitation, but this also has to do with how we conduct ourselves in this Legislature. I know it is the government's responsibility to appoint the Deputy Speaker of this Chamber, and as such, when that Deputy Speaker takes the Chair we would expect that, in his role as Deputy Speaker, he would conduct himself or herself in a very impartial and very appropriate manner. We have had some difficulty with that aspect, and that is why we have disruptions of this nature.
I am not pleased about this. I am somewhat embarrassed by this as a member of the House. I would recommend that perhaps it is time the Deputy Speaker and Mr. Speaker would meet to discuss some of the issues with regard to this matter, and I would be pleased to attend so that in the future, we do not have occasion for this kind of disruption in the Chamber.
Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Official Opposition House Leader, I accepted to hear the point of order, regrettably, because any issue that is pertaining to any of our rulings or any of the actions of our chairs, our deputy speakers, our speakers, could be handled in a different format. Also, if there is the process of electing a Speaker or Deputy Speaker, we have Rules Committee, and I think that would be appropriate to address that. Any member that has any difficulty after, not before, after I have made a ruling, my office is always open if they need more interpretation or more clarification or even if a member wants to give me advice on whatever, my door will always be open. Not before I make a ruling but after the ruling has been made.
So, the honourable member does not have a point of order, and I am sure we will be discussing this issue somewhere down the line.
Point of Order
Mr. Speaker: On a point of order? The honourable Member for
Mr. David Faurschou (
I want to say that I was
the member that effectively was responsible because it was a point of order
that I had raised and the Deputy Speaker at that time did make commentary,
which ultimately led to the honourable Member for
I will say for the record, Mr. Speaker, that the Deputy Speaker did approach me outside of the Chamber and did make an apology for his commentary at that time. I accepted his apology and that concluded the matter on my behalf, and I want to thank the Deputy Speaker for doing so. It is regretful that this ruling had to take place today, but I acknowledge that the Member for Springfield in fact did take issue with the Deputy Speaker that day and I believe the House has received an apology in that respect. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker: This is information for all members of the House. Once a Speaker makes a ruling, there is to be no debate on that ruling. If you are not happy with the Speaker's ruling you can challenge the ruling. That is information for all members.
In the future, I will not be entertaining debate on any rulings that I make because our rules are very clear, that if you are not satisfied with the ruling that a Speaker brings forward, your option is to challenge the ruling. That is the only option and not for further information or further debate. In the future, I will not be entertaining any such action. Just for the information of the House, I am going to follow the rules as laid out in our rules. That is for the information of the House.
Now that should conclude the matter, and we will now go to Members' Statements.
Ladybug Foundation
Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, on February 26, I was pleased to attend an event at the future site of the new Siloam Mission sponsored by the Ladybug Foundation to kick off "Make Change" month in March.
The vision of eight-year-old Hannah Taylor, who happens to be from Charleswood, and the Ladybug Foundation which she founded is, and I quote, "No one will have to eat out of a garbage can; everyone will have a home." Hannah's passion to help the homeless began three years ago when she was only five years of age and she and her mother saw a homeless man eating out of a garbage bin. Hannah was so troubled by what she saw and about where the hungry man would stay that she began painting black and red ladybug jars and took them to her school to collect change for the homeless.
After this life-changing
encounter with a homeless person at age five, she has become a passionate
advocate for the homeless in
Hannah is a child whose
dedication to helping the homeless is creating awareness for their plight and
raising funds for their needs across
Her message is rich with love, respect and value for her, and I quote, "lost and forgotten homeless. We all have sooo much – we just need to share a little of what we have and care about each other always."
We are proud of Hannah in Charleswood, and we want to wish her all the best with her efforts. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
* (14:40)
Greatest Transconian
Contest
Mr. Bidhu Jha (Radisson): Mr. Speaker, it is with great pleasure and pride I rise today to
acknowledge a wonderful event organized recently by the
This contest made a
valuable contribution to the community in many ways. It engaged hundreds of
members from the community, stimulated interest in Transcona's history and
attracted many new visitors to the
Transcona is a close-knit community comprised of people caring for each other in good and bad times; people like Paul Martin, the winner of the Greatest Transconian. Mr. Martin also personifies the spirit of Transcona. Whether it be his service in World War II or his work as Transcona's mayor, he is living proof that when people get involved, great communities can be built so that everyone can enjoy a better standard of living.
I would be remiss not to mention the excellent candidates who comprised the field of the 10 finalists in the Greatest Transconian contest: Rod Black, Bill Blaikie, Joe Blostein, Bill Gibson, Dr. Michael Grace, Dr. Murdoch MacKay, Paul Martin, Russ Paulley, Joseph Teres and Bernie Wolfe. All of them are worthy of their community's recognition.
Mr. Speaker, the Transcona Museum has done a wonderful job of not only recording the history of a community by presenting an event like the Greatest Transconian, the museum has preserved the history and contributed to the future shape of Transcona.
Mr. Speaker, it is a
great pleasure for me to congratulate and thank the museum and its president,
James Sesak, the museum's curators, Mrs. Sheryl Kolt and Kimberly Hiebert, as
well as the
Kenneth Carels
Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Mr. Speaker, it is my esteemed honour that I rise today to pay tribute and respect to Mr. Kenneth Donald Carels.
Mr. Carels was born in
Ken spent a lifetime of
dedicated service to the Melita community. He was well known for his devoted
and tireless involvement in the town of
His community involvement was a large part of his life. Ken was instrumental in having the Blood Donor Clinic come to Melita. Many local organizations had the benefit of his participation. He served as a charter member of the Melita Lions Club, an active member of the Kinsmen, K-40, Chamber of Commerce, curling club, handi-van committee, ambulance, Volunteer Fire Department, Elderly Persons Housing Board, Low-Rental Housing Board, medical clinic, health centre, arena board, Senior Services of Antler River, Southwest District Health Advisory Board, health district board, International Highway 83 Association, personal care home, the Melita Weather Station, Golden Age Centre, Bisons Hockey Club, Westman Communications Group - TV Access Channel, treasurer and trustee on the Melita Sacred Heart Roman Catholic Church and Meals on Wheels.
He was a firm believer that his service to the community enhanced family life in Melita. Ken lived his life by the belief that any person can make a difference if they choose to get involved. He got involved and he did improve the lives of many.
In 1993, Ken was honoured to be presented with a commemorative medal marking the 125th Anniversary of the Confederation of Canada. The Association of Manitoba Municipalities, in November of 2004, awarded him with an honourary life membership and on February 27 at the Manitoba Good Roads Association banquet, his wife Ellen proudly received an honourary life membership on his behalf for Ken's years as a director and judge.
Mr. Carels passed away on January 26 of this year. His legacy and contributions to our society will serve as inspirations to us all for years to come. I encourage all honourable members to join me in offering condolences to his wife, Ellen, his daughters, Michelle and Carleen, their husbands, Paul and Mark, his grandchildren, Emily and Alexandra, to his mother, Julia, and other immediate family members. I know that his dedication to his family, his church, his community and the province of Manitoba will always be remembered. Thank you.
Greatest Transconian
Contest
Mr. Daryl Reid
(Transcona): Mr. Speaker, it gives me great
pleasure today to rise to acknowledge a long-time resident of the Transcona
constituency, Mr. Paul Martin. As a part of the contest sponsored by the
Mr. Martin is certainly
deserving of this award. Born and raised in Transcona, Mr. Martin is an
extraordinary and courageous man who has devoted considerable time and effort
to enriching Transcona's history, as well as making Transcona a fantastic place
to live. He is the founder of the
Today, Mr. Martin
continues to be an active member in the community in Transcona. He conducts
over 25 non-denominational funeral services each year on behalf of
As Mr. Martin has stated himself, he has a lifelong love affair with Transcona. He has lived in Transcona almost his entire life, except for the period in which he served his country during World War II. As 2005 has been declared the Year of the Veteran, a special commemorative year, it is important to recognize that Captain Martin served in the Canadian Army for six years, taking part in the Battle of Britain and later storming the beaches of Normandy on D-Day.
After peace was declared, Mr. Martin returned to Transcona and used his leadership skills for the development of a better community. Mr. Martin has served the people of Transcona in numerous different capacities, always with utmost distinction. For several years, Mr. Martin was an active councillor and school trustee, and in 1958 and '59 he served as the last mayor of Transcona. During this time as mayor he worked tirelessly toward street paving, mail delivery, elimination of ditches and creation of storm sewers.
To conclude, Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate Mr. Martin on being named the Greatest Transconian, and I would like to thank him for his dedicated service to our community. It continues to be an honour to know that Paul is a great part of our Transcona community. Thank you.
Child Poverty Rate
Hon. Jon Gerrard (
Poverty is associated
with a lower level of fitness in children, in part because poor children often
cannot afford to participate in sports and fitness activities. The budget
delivered yesterday provided a golden opportunity to act to address the
important issue of child poverty in
There was a major
opportunity to act this year by the NDP,
but instead, the NDP budget failed to provide a plan of action to address the
important issue of child poverty. During the course of the last year, we have witnessed
demonstrations in the Legislature which have called for an overhaul of the social assistance program in
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
(Second Day of Debate)
* (14:50)
Mr. Speaker: On the adjourned debate on the proposed motion of the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger) that this House approve in general the budgetary policy of the government, standing in the name of the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Murray).
Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to make comments on the sixth budget that was introduced by this NDP government.
Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair
I will allow the spin doctors from the government side to try to convince Manitobans about this budget, but I want to rise specifically, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to put some comments on the record as to why I think that this budget is a lot of smoke and mirrors and why that there are some specific things that this Doer government had a chance and opportunity of a lifetime, an opportunity of a generation, to make a change in the direction of Manitoba. They had that opportunity and they failed.
I would like to put a little bit of history and context, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because I think that as my comments and remarks go forward we have to put a little bit of framework behind my comments. The history of this NDP government is pretty clear. They will introduce a budget in this Chamber by the Minister of Finance, then following that budget introduction there are usually some sneaky user fees that get introduced that Manitobans were not aware of. They did not get mentioned in the budget. They did not get mentioned to the public. The public just finds out about them whenever they have to go and make a purchase on some of their user fees.
Then the third budget that we have in the province of Manitoba, or the actual budget I guess we could say, is when the Auditor General tells the Doer government that no matter what they said over the past three years, they have tried to say that there was a $10-million surplus, a $180 million, or a $10-million surplus, whatever their surplus numbers are, the Auditor General catches them and has to explain to Manitobans, "No, the Doer government has misled you."
In fact, over the past
three years what we have seen is a deficit in the
Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, this Doer government, this NDP government, of course, like most socialist approaches, look at Crown corporations as if to say, "Well, we own that. That is part of our money." Even though the Crown corporation is supposed to be arm's-length, they say, "But, one for one and all for one, it is all in one big pot of money."
Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that is the difference between the NDP and the Progressive Conservative Party of Manitoba. It is about ideology. We want to ensure that our Crown corporations are healthy, ensure that they run their own show.
In fact, it was fascinating
that it was this NDP Doer government that changed the legislation in the
province of Manitoba that was put in place to say that no government,
regardless of their political stripe, should ever have the ability to go into
Manitoba Hydro in the middle of the night and take out revenue, take out profit
from that company and put it into general revenues of the government. That was
the law in
They got into government and you know the old NDP, Mr. Deputy Speaker. They love that tax-and-spend stuff. They cannot spend fast enough and, unfortunately, what happened was they spent so quickly that they woke up in the middle of the night and said, "Whoops, we are out of money. We have got no money. We need some money. What are we going to do?" Well, one of the Cabinet members probably said, "Well, look at Manitoba Hydro. It is Manitobans' and we own it. What the heck. Why do we not go in and take money out of Manitoba Hydro?"
Somebody would have said,
rightly so, I believe, to the Premier of the
"No problem," said the Premier of the day. "Not a problem for me because really I am an NDPer, and as an NDPer I believe that what is theirs is mine, and so I am going to change the law. I am going to change the legislation to allow me to go in and take money out of Manitoba Hydro because I crave the revenue and I cannot control my spending habit."
Mr. Deputy Speaker, that
is the context of which we see a budget come into
I find it always
interesting when you want to see how well a government is doing, how well they
are performing, the old adage is you follow the money. I can tell you, if you
follow the money with this NDP government, what you are going to see is that
debt has risen in the
Mr. Speaker in the Chair
How is it possible with
all of this revenue coming in that debt would go up in the
Why? Because they lack leadership. When there are tough questions, every minister stands up on that side. We hear it all the time. When asked a question about why things are being ignored in Manitoba, why rural Manitoba is suffering, why the mothers in urgent care in Brandon are forced to drive by ambulance into Winnipeg and experience highway medicine, when we ask those serious questions about where Manitoba is going and why there is lack of leadership, and when you are asking that on behalf of real Manitoba people who are suffering under this NDP government, well, the ministers pop up on that side one after another and they go through that mantra: 1995 and the federal Liberal government.
They clearly do not
understand that this is their sixth budget. They have been in government now
for six budgets. That means that they should provide leadership and direction.
They should provide a long-term economic strategy for the people of
Mr. Speaker, the one thing that this Premier and this Doer government will never, ever talk about, and I should give them warning right now because they may want to close their ears, I am going to talk about the fact that this Doer government has the inability to make Manitoba a have province. Look at them all over there. They are all shutting their ears already. All I am asking, on behalf of Manitobans, the business community, is to do what is right for Manitoba; have the sense that over the long term you can make Manitoba a have province.
An Honourable Member: Oh, yes.
Mr. Murray: There it is, right there, from the Premier. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Sure.
That is the problem with
I can tell the First
Minister, because I know he knows members of the Business Council, I know he
has talked to people in the business community, the one thing that they are
concerned about is that this Premier lacks any economic vision for the province
of Manitoba. I can tell you this. I can tell you that Manitobans are proud of
this great province we have. They are proud of what kind of province we call
home. We are proud of the fact that we have world class curling champions out
of this province, but Manitobans are not proud when they watch an NDP
government make us fall behind the province next door,
Long gone are the days of
the previous government that was always out there competing with
Under this NDP
government, under this group, what do we see? Well, they are just delighted,
they are just absolutely delighted if they can make an announcement that we
think we are keeping up with
* (15:00)
Mr. Speaker, I would say
that I was fascinated to read some of the comments from some of business
leaders in the
That is the business
community trying to say, in a very direct way, to this NDP government, Show us
some leadership. Show us some vision. Show us the fact that when revenue comes
in to the
No, Mr. Speaker, that is not the socialist way; that is not the socialist way. The socialist way is to say, "Wait a minute, we are going to make sure that all of this tax revenue comes to the government. We need this money put into the NDP government general revenues." Why do they do that? It is very simple. They do that because they simply do not believe that hardworking Manitobans deserve the opportunity to spend their own money because this socialist NDP government says, "We know how to spend it better than Manitobans."
There is a substantial
difference between that socialist NDP government and the way we in the Manitoba
Progressive Conservative Party believe. With the unprecedented revenues that we
saw come into the
What this Doer government wants to do is to offload all of the responsibility onto the school trustees, and then somehow they want to make them the villains. Well, it may have taken three or four years, and certainly we talked about it in the last election campaign, and to this Premier's credit, he has started to niggle, niggle, niggle away at it, but it is not good enough. You should have done more. You had the opportunity to do more.
You could have taken the education tax off of residential property and farmland in one fell swoop because this Premier–he is famous for this, we know we have heard it before. In 1999, when the previous government came forward with a plan that made sense, it talked about a billion dollars over five years, it talked about tax relief, and it talked about funding education and health care.
What did we hear from
this Premier? Where is the money? Where is the money? I have looked high and
low. I have looked under desks. I have looked under chairs. I have looked
everywhere. I have looked under the Cabinet table. I cannot find the money, Mr.
Speaker, where is it? Is it not interesting. Not only did he find the billion,
not only did he find $1.5 billion, he has found $2 billion in the
What do we see for it? What do we see for it, Mr. Speaker? What is it that Manitobans have to show for the Doer government's $2 billion additional dollars? Wow, is it not interesting? There goes the Premier again. When we said to Manitobans that it is important to eliminate the education tax off of residential property and farmland, what did the Premier say then? What did this Premier say then? Well, he said, "Where's the money? Where are they going to get the money from? Show me the money. I do not see it." I am glad to see that the Premier is now wearing glasses because maybe now he will know where the money is and he will be able to see the money because the money is there.
What, unfortunately, is
not there, and I said it earlier, is leadership. He does not have the political
will to do the right thing, to say to our agriculture community and to say to
property owners, "Ladies and gentlemen, hardworking people of
The other thing that I thought was fascinating that we did not hear from this Premier yesterday was a tremendous opportunity to talk to the municipalities about a new deal that would be tied to economic growth. Municipalities cannot do it on their own. Again, this Premier, through socialist NDP ideology, says, "Hey, I know better than everybody else. Why would I trust a municipality? Why would I trust a city to do a better job?" No, I hear, "Spend, spend, spend." That was the other mantra that I forgot when I said '95, federal Liberals; it is spend, spend, spend. That was the other mantra. Thank you, Premier, for reminding me that I forgot the third mantra that you talk about around your Cabinet table.
The fact of life is that we need to have a new deal that is tied to economic growth to help our municipalities grow. It is the only way to make it happen. It is not enough for Big Brother NDP socialist government to say, "We know better. We know how to spend your money better. We do not trust you. We cannot trust you. It is only up to us to make those kinds of decisions." That is not good enough.
Mr. Speaker, the other
reason I have very strong concerns about this budget is the fact that they are
absolutely ignoring our post-secondary institutions in
I know the member from
Brandon, both members in the House from
Can you imagine, Mr. Speaker, under the fact that this NDP government says, and rightly so, that post-secondary institutions, universities should not run a deficit? If this Doer government would only have to follow that same pattern, we would see some changes. But, no, this government has got all sorts of secret doors that they can get money from and raid Manitoba Hydro and the rainy day fund and then they punish post-secondary institutions and say, "No, you've got to balance your budget and we are going to short-change you and you have got to make the tough decisions."
Well, Mr. Speaker, welcome to the real world, the real world according to the NDP socialist government. I think it is unfortunate when we get the kinds of institutions that we have, clearly coming forward to this Premier and asking simply, "With this unprecedented amount of money that has come into this province, please fund us properly. That is all we are asking for. We are asking to be funded properly." What do they get handed? A big no thank-you. Well, that is unfortunate, and that was missing in this budget.
The fact of life is that this Premier knows that he has got money in the budget to reduce waiting lists. So what did they do? In fairness to our Member for Charleswood (Mrs. Driedger), who had been asking for this transparency and accountability for this government to put that money in waiting lists, to put it into a position where it is transparent and accountable, the Doer government did that. But what is astonishing, what is absolutely amazing, is that we are six years into this government and they have not got a clue how to reduce waiting lists. They have no plan on how to reduce waiting lists. So how long is that money going to sit in an account while people suffer and wait goes on to have hip and knee replacements?
* (15:10)
Mr. Speaker, I have talked to Manitobans, and I have talked to Manitobans who have been shut out of the Minister of Health's (Mr. Sale) office because he will not talk to them. What are they saying? They are basically saying that we were told that we might have to wait two and a half years for a hip or knee replacement. Well, that is old news. That is old news. Now, under this NDP government, they are waiting up to three years.
That is unbelievable, that this Doer government, who railed against the previous government for year after year after year in opposition, found themselves in charge and have no idea how to provide leadership, zero idea. They have no plan to reduce waiting lists. I am just shocked that, after six years, again, I think I am hearing 1995, Liberal government, spend, spend, spend, coming from the other side.
Mr. Speaker, I would say
that the other area that is unfortunate is that the Doer government had an
opportunity to ensure, to provide timely access to care for patients, that they
would have allowed for the ability of private clinics, privately managed
clinics that are publicly funded, to provide better access to care for
I can tell you patients
in
Mr. Speaker, I know that
the BSE relief and slaughter capacity has been ignored by this Doer government.
I find it incredible, as we said the other day, here we were in this House
talking about a matter of urgent public importance. Then we talked about the
fact that there was an all-party resolution. They introduced a budget the next
day, some 24 hours after this debate, without any mention of the word BSE.
Shocking, absolutely shocking, and embarrassing to the people of
I would say this: If the
BSE crisis was happening in the city of
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Mr. Murray: What they care about is their own political ideology. I say shame on that Premier for being so obvious and being so political.
Mr. Speaker, we know in
this
I know this Doer government has said very
clearly that they are going to provide 20 more police officers, 20 more police
officers. Are those the 20 more police officers that are going to be funded by
VLT and casino revenues? That is how this government, despite the unprecedented
revenues that we see come into the
I do not think that there
is any–and I know they are going to laugh at this. They probably find it funny,
the fact that under this Doer government, under their very nose, under their
watch,
Mr. Speaker, I would say
that in this budget what we saw, which is really unfortunate, and as I said, it
is about following the money, and that
under unprecedented amounts of revenue coming into this province, what
we see with this Doer government is they are increasing the debt in the
province of Manitoba. That is like basically saying the Doer government's
legacy is a birth tax. Anybody that is born in
I know there are many others on this side of the House who are going to speak on this budget. I will give this government a comment. There are probably a couple of things in this budget, frankly, that we have talked about, that this government has looked at and tried to adopt, but in general the philosophy, the importance behind this budget is that the fundamental, underlining of all of the things in this budget is they are increasing the debt and mortgaging our children's future. I say shame on this government for doing that. That is not what a budget should be about. They should be about planning to ensure that our next generation has a better opportunity than we do, not a worse opportunity. That is my concern with this budget because that is what this NDP Premier is throwing to the next generation. He is not throwing them a life raft. He is throwing them a stone tied to their ankles, and that is a shame. There should be more opportunity for those people, not less, and because the debt goes up under this NDP Premier when there are unprecedented revenues coming into the province, I say shame on this government.
* (15:20)
Mr. Speaker, I would like to move this motion, seconded by the Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Hawranik),
THAT the motion be amended by deleting all the words after "House" and
substituting the following:
therefore regrets this budget ignores the
present and future needs of Manitobans by:
(a) Failing
to offer any vision and to reflect the priorities of
(b)
Failing to provide a long-term economic strategy and tax reduction strategy
that addresses the fact that Manitobans are now, under the Doer NDP government,
the highest taxed west of New Brunswick, and make Manitoba a "have"
province; and
(c)
Failing to address the debt of
(d)
Failing to eliminate education taxes off of residential property and farmland;
and
(e)
Failing to offer a "New Deal" which will meet the needs of
(f)
Failing to provide adequate funding for post-secondary institutions; and
(g)
Failing to provide relief for
(h)
Failing to provide for a meaningful review of the operation and administration
of
(i)
Failing to provide a long-term plan for the reduction of health care waiting
lists; and
(j)
Failing to provide an opportunity for publicly funded health care services in
privately managed clinics; and
(k)
Failing to provide child care options for parents by failing to support
for-profit child care centres as well as not-for-profit centres, and failing to
provide a tax credit for stay-at-home parents; and
(l)
Failing
(m)
Failing to support
(n)
Failing to deal with record numbers of auto thefts and record numbers of
murders; and
(o)
Failing to provide a plan or strategy to break up existing gangs and prevent new
gangs from coming to
(p)
Failing to deal with the high number of grow-ops and labs manufacturing illegal
drugs and the proliferation of drugs; and
(q) Failing to acknowledge their raid on Manitoba
Hydro contributed to a 10% increase in Hydro rates.
As a consequence, the government has thereby lost the confidence of
the House and the people of
Mr. Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Murray), seconded by the honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Hawranik),
THAT the motion be amended by deleting all the words after "House" and substituting the following:–
An Honourable Member: Dispense.
Mr. Speaker: Dispense?
An Honourable Member: No.
Mr. Speaker: No, read it? Okay.
therefore regrets this budget ignores the
present and future needs of Manitobans by:
(a) Failing to offer any vision and to reflect the
priorities of
(b) Failing to provide a long-term economic strategy
and tax reduction strategy that addresses the fact that Manitobans are now,
under the Doer NDP government, the highest taxed west of New Brunswick, and
make Manitoba a "have" province; and
(c) Failing to address the debt of
(d) Failing to eliminate education taxes off
of residential property and farmland; and
(e) Failing to offer a "New Deal"
which will meet the needs of
(f)
Failing to provide adequate funding for post-secondary institutions; and
(g)
Failing to provide relief for
(h)
Failing to provide for a meaningful review of the operation and administration
of
(i)
Failing to provide a long-term plan for the reduction of health care waiting
lists; and
(j)
Failing to provide an opportunity for publicly funded health care services in
privately managed clinics; and
(k)
Failing to provide child care options for parents by failing to support
for-profit child care centres as well as not-for-profit centres, and failing to
provide a tax credit for stay-at-home parents; and
(l) Failing
(m)
Failing to support
(n)
Failing to deal with record numbers of auto thefts and record numbers of
murders; and
(o)
Failing to provide a plan or strategy to break up existing gangs and prevent
new gangs from coming to
(p)
Failing to deal with the high number of grow-ops and labs manufacturing illegal
drugs and the proliferation of drugs; and
(q)
Failing to acknowledge their raid on Manitoba Hydro contributed to a 10%
increase in Hydro rates.
As a consequence, the government has thereby lost the confidence of
the House and the people of
This amendment is in order.
Point of Order
Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable Official Opposition House Leader, on a point of order?
Mr. Leonard Derkach (Official Opposition House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker: On a point of order.
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, earlier this afternoon, the member from Turtle Mountain–Arthur-Virden, I am sorry–made a member's statement in the House and he was not able to conclude his remarks. I am wondering whether it would be acceptable to have his written remarks recorded in Hansard as part of his member's statement.
Mr. Speaker: Order. He is asking for leave. He is asking for leave for Hansard to print it as it is written. [interjection] Order, please. For clarification, the honourable Official Opposition House Leader.
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, I understand that this is somewhat out of the ordinary, but this member's statement was a tribute to a councillor, a reeve, a mayor, someone who had contributed significantly to this province. Certainly, I think extending this to his family would be not only respectful but it also would fulfill all of the contributions that this worthy Manitoban made to our province and to his community.
Mr. Speaker: The honourable Deputy Government House Leader, on the same point of order.
Hon. Steve Ashton (Deputy Government House Leader): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think we have shown a fair amount of flexibility in the past in terms of members who have run out of time. I do think, though, the appropriate thing would be to provide some opportunity for the member to complete the statement. There were times when we printed items, certainly in committee, but the general practice with Hansard, particularly in this House, is not to have anything other than what is stated in the House.
So I would say more appropriately that if the Government House Leader was asking for leave for the member to be able to complete his statement, we would be more than happy to do so. I would suggest probably the appropriate time would be tomorrow. In fact, if it is acceptable to the member, it might be the opportunity then to even read the entire statement on the record, but I think that would be a better way of dealing with this. We are prepared to provide leave tomorrow for the member to be able to read the entire statement.
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Mr. Speaker: Order. I am hearing two different sides here. To help the process, what I would suggest to the House, and it is entirely up to you, but I would suggest to the House if we revert to Members' Statements, let the honourable member conclude it, and then we come back to Orders of the Day, that would take care of it. We are only talking a couple of minutes here. Would the House be agreeable to that?
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, provided that the statement that is made by the member is not disjointed within Hansard, that it is then put together as one statement.
Mr. Speaker: What the honourable Official Opposition House Leader has just commented on, I will take the responsibility to ask Hansard if they could compile it as one. Once the honourable member has concluded his comments, I would be more than happy to do that. So is the House willing to revert to Members' Statements to deal with this matter? Agreed? [Agreed]
* * *
Mr. Speaker: Now we will move back to Orders of the Day, and we are debating the amendment moved by the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Murray).
* (15:30)
Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to rise in opposition to the current amendment that is before us and in support of a very, very fine budget. I want to spend a bit of time on some larger pictures. Unfortunately, the Leader of the Opposition has forgotten the years that he may have spent jumping to the pump, because he has forgotten that you have to invest in order to get returns, and when you invest in debt that is sustainable and paid for, either by the fees or by the existing budget, that is not new debt of an unsupported and general purpose nature.
I would like to suggest that maybe the members opposite might want to spend a little time on pages B-32 and B-33 of this very fine Manitoba Budget 2005. The first number that I would like them to take a look at is the net pension liability. Ten years ago, the net pension liability was 7 percent growth. Nine years ago, because the auditor drew to their attention the fact that this pension liability had not been properly looked at, it grew by 17 percent. Then it grew by 7 percent, 7.5 in fact. Now, in the last three years, our pension liabilities have grown by 1.3 percent, 2.4 percent, 2.4 percent. That is because, for the first time since Duff Roblin decided to not pay down pensions and instead to pay for the floodway, which was an honourable choice at the time, but it should have perhaps been reconsidered a few years later. We ran up an enormous and rapidly growing pension liability in this province. Our Cabinet and our Finance Minister has turned that around. We are not only showing the full liability which the opposition never showed when they were in government, we are paying it down in an orderly fashion, and every new employee in Manitoba since last year has now got every nickel that the government owes them in terms of pension claim payments in their pension plan.
Let me move down to net
general purpose debt. Let us look at the situation in 1996-97, 10 years ago.
Net general purpose debt. The member who is so critical of a number of finance
issues from
In terms of the percent of our economy that we have to invest in servicing our debt, the next line down, when they were in government in '96-97, it took them almost 10 cents on the dollar, 10 cents on the dollar to service their general purpose debt. This year, 3.3 cents on the dollar. When they were in government, they used to say, "We should pay down debt so we would have more money to spend on health care." Well, we paid down debt, and we have more money to spend on health care.
They talk about growth in the economy. In their last four years, this economy grew at market prices by approximately $3.5 billion. In our first five years, $10 billion growth, 33% growth in the economy in five years, $10 billion growth, $10 billion more circulating in our economy today than there was five, good years ago. So the member of the opposition who claims to be their leader, although it is not always clear from time to time whether he really is or not, the member of the opposition that just spoke seems not to understand that this government has paid attention to every corner of Manitoba and represents every corner of Manitoba.
We put new CT scans in
I found it absolutely shameful that the member opposite would say we do not care about farmers because they are all Tories. Well, Mr. Speaker, the farmers in the Interlake, the farmers in Dauphin-Roblin and the farmers in Swan River, I do not care what party they voted for. They are farmers and they need our support. I do not care what party the farmers in Virden voted for, and I do not care what the farmers in Steinbach voted for. They are Manitobans and we will care for all Manitobans. We do not care who they voted for because we represent them and we have their interest at heart. That is why $20 million is now in the hands of farmers that was going to be in the hands of tax collectors. That is why the reductions in the ESL have now reached $30 million. That is $50 million that has been reduced off taxes, and what do they say, you are not doing it fast enough. In other words, we sort of like what you are doing, but you are not doing it fast enough.
Mr. Speaker, this year we did get $155 million from the federal government in order to attack waiting lists. The members opposite want us to spend it all tomorrow. You know when you are going to attack a complex waiting list like hips and knees, for example, you do not just throw money at it. You have to deal with anesthetists, you have to deal with orthopaedic surgeons, you have to have the operating room time, you have to have the physiotherapy, you have to have the managed wait list, and that is what we have been putting in place for the last year so that we will now be able to do 1000 more hips and knees in the next two years than would have been done without this wait list money.
Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski,
Acting Speaker, in the Chair
We are very proud today
to have announced at
Now, Madam Acting
Speaker, there has been a lot of criticism about doctors. Let me give the
members opposite just a few facts. I know the facts are troubling, but perhaps
they should at least reflect on them slightly. There are 139 more doctors in
Madam Acting Speaker, we have six more orthopedic surgeons today than we had in 1999. We are doing 20 percent more hips, knees, revisions, hemis, full and partial replacements this year than we did in 1999. We have more work to do on hips and knees. We know that. We have increased the volume by 20 percent already. We are going to add another 1000 over the next two years to bring that waiting list down and we are going to keep it down after we get it down to an acceptable level.
* (15:40)
Where are we, Madam Acting Speaker, in regard to some questions that were raised by this Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Murray)? He had the, I think, misjudgment to talk about leadership. Well, let us talk about the leadership on this side of the House. For the first time in a decade, we actually have a deal that takes us for 10 years into the future in federal funding for our health care system. I think that any reasonable judgment of Manitoba contributed to that will tell you, other premiers will tell you and other health ministers will tell you, that Manitoba's team at that record achievement in September of this past year of my colleague, the former Minister of Health, the current honourable Minister of Energy, Science and Technology (Mr. Chomiak), our Premier (Mr. Doer) and our team from Manitoba played an absolutely critical role in brokering a fair and long-term agreement to sustain universal health care in this country. That is why, in this budget, that we have $150 million from the federal government into a trust fund that will allow us to attack waiting lists for diagnostic procedures, for surgery, to attack waiting times for any other forms of therapy which we may need and to improve the health status of Manitobans so that, frankly, they will not need to wait because they will be healthier. So I was very proud of the leadership of our province in the health accord.
Shortly after that, our Finance Minister, who has lead us from 9.9 percent of our expenditures to service our general purpose debt to 3.3 percent of our expenditures to service our debt in five short years, our Finance Minister and our Premier got an agreement on equalization that recognized, finally, that the federal government had been short-changing all of the equalization recipient provinces, including Saskatchewan, by the way, over the past number of years, and that resulted in a one-time improvement to the base of our equalization by over $180 million this year. That was money that should have been in our revenues. The federal government finally agreed that it should be, and they put it in. We are glad of that, but we have to remember that that is not an annual increase. That is a one-time increase into the base.
So the members opposite, who on Monday want us to spend and on Wednesday want us to save and on Friday want us to pay down debt have to understand that some of this very large increase that came into revenue this year was one-time money. The increase in our equalization was an increase one year. Next year it does not go up very much at all. The increase coming from the wait list money is one-time money that will end over four years. It will not be there. So we cannot begin to spend money that is not sustainable, and that is why our budgets have increased in a very reasonable and reasoned way over the last few years, with our expenditure increase totals of 1.9 percent, 2.9 percent, one year of 7 percent, the other years of 3, 3.5, 3.6. Not rapid growth, and in fact not much different from the years in which the previous government piled up debt upon debt upon debt.
They had the gall on
Monday to confuse debt of a self-sustaining Crown corporation, which is
entirely paid for by rates, with the general purpose debt which in 1991-92,
this previous government in which some of the members present in the House sat
in the Cabinet ran up a $762-million debt. The largest deficit in
An Honourable Member: Because you took $400 million out.
Mr. Sale: The Member for Emerson (Mr. Penner) is now talking about how we are
responsible for the weather, Madam Acting Speaker. He is the same member that
thinks we can prevent a flood on the Red River by building a dam on the
He is also the member who
wanted us to spend, spend, spend, in fact to spend a deficit on BSE. Well, I am
proud of the work that my colleague the honourable Member for
Let me move to the
question of how many nurses we have in our system. One of the really
interesting statistics was that, when we formed government in 1999, 210 young
Manitobans graduated as nurses. This year, 753 and it is still going up. Do you
know how many nurses left during their time in government: 1586 fewer nurses
were practising in
We have increased the
number of doctors. The previous government decreased the number of doctors.
When we formed government, there
were only 70 students enrolled each year in the medical college of this
province, one of the finest medical colleges in
This year, let me tell
the House a very important piece of information, this year 81 percent of family
practitioners who graduate in
While we are on the
subject of the university, I was astounded to hear the leader of the party
opposite being critical of our record on post-secondary education. I do not
know where he has been. We stood
up in 1999 and said, "We will put $50 million on the table for the
We put $50 million on the
table and said you have got to match that. The business community of
We have rebuilt the infrastructure. We protected students from the kind of fee increases that during the 1990s drove their debt ratios to the level where students were starting out in life with more debt than many of us had halfway through our lives.
* (15:50)
Madam Acting Speaker, we
capped their debt. We put in bursary programs and we lowered tuition, and then
we froze tuition. This budget maintains the fact that we have the second
cheapest tuition in
In addition, take a look
at
What I think is perhaps
one of the proudest achievements of this government is that
Frankly, the richness that is our collective multicultural heritage, multilingual, multi-faith heritage is further strengthened by the people whom we have welcomed in the last several years, providing a record growth of employment, a growth of population, and what has that done? It has raised housing prices. It has increased employment. It has increased investment in our companies. That again is why the gross domestic product of Manitoba at market prices has grown from $31 billion to $41 billion under this government, this Premier (Mr. Doer), this Finance Minister, who have done remarkable jobs to rebuild the economy that under the previous government had failed to create accurate numbers of jobs, was not attracting immigrants, was losing doctors and was laying off and losing nurses.
Mr. Speaker in the Chair
I want to talk, just very briefly, about some of the things that we have done in Family Services and Housing because, as a former minister in that area, I am very committed to the work that is being done by my colleague the honourable Minister of Family Services and Housing (Ms. Melnick) today. We have more than doubled the support we are providing to Manitobans with developmental delay to live in our community, and we are accelerating the rate of moving and finding new homes for people.
During 1999-2000 and 2001
we closed
In child care we have put
tens of millions of new dollars into our
child care system; 3500 new spaces. You know the member of the opposition that was speaking earlier was talking about
child care workers. When we formed
government we could not keep child care workers in our system because their
wages were so low because the previous government would not support adequate
wages for child care workers. We immediately went to the wage scale recommended
by the Manitoba Child Care Association, which, by the way, Mr. Speaker, is the
strongest and largest child care association in
I want to close my
remarks talking about perhaps the most important challenge facing us, and that
is the challenge of wellness and prevention. We have talked a lot about what we
have done on cardiac wait lists, cancer wait lists and what we are doing in hip and knee wait lists, CT scans, MRIs,
the various new therapies, such as brachia therapy in the prostate cancer centre.
We have done a lot of really good things, the building of the Health
Sciences Centre,
Mr. Speaker, what we have to do is to try and make sure that the health of Manitobans is so much better that they do not need to draw on those resources as much in the future. That is why a centrepiece of our government has been the Healthy Child program and the prevention of illness in the first place. I will give credit to the former minister of Family Services, the Member for River East (Mrs. Mitchelson), who began in a very slight way the secretariat on child health, the Children and Youth Secretariat, but we have grown this into a model program in Canada that has attracted people from North America to say, "How have you made child development such a powerful and central program in your province?"
We did that because our
Premier said that the Healthy Child committee should be a committee of Cabinet
reporting what seven departments are doing on behalf of children in
Finally, we announced that we will be committing very significant new revenues to the prevention and to the improved treatment of chronic disease. There is frankly no excuse for people with type 2 diabetes progressing to renal failure and needing a kidney transplant or dialysis. When people progress to renal failure, it is because their diabetes has not been properly managed or aggressively managed. That is a challenge for our doctors and our nurses, but it is also a challenge for those who have type 2 diabetes to learn as much as they can about their disease and to participate with our health care providers, ensuring that their disease does not progress, that they do not have heart disease and begin to lose circulation and develop bed sores and face amputations and then ultimately the loss of their ability to stay off dialysis.
So the prevention of type 2 diabetes has to be a very high priority because we are now spending $55 million a year on dialysis, Mr. Speaker. We should not be having to spend that money, we should be preventing diabetes in the first place. We are spending too much money on chronic hypertension which has not been property managed, partly in terms of what we have done to manage it in the health side but also in terms of the patient side.
So, in conclusion, Mr. Speaker, Manitobans have a responsibility to work at maintaining and improving their health status. We have a responsibility as government to give them the tools and the supports to do that. In the long run it is far better to prevent disease, and it is far better to prevent the progress of disease than it is to deal with the consequences. We are committed to prevention. We are committed to lowering waiting lists. We are committed to having the diagnostic resources available when you need them and where you need them, but more than anything else we are committed to a balanced approach to government, which represents the needs of every Manitoban in every corner of our province.
I take huge exception to the Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Murray) suggesting that in any way we make partisan decisions about where things are done or who counts. Every Manitoban counts, every farmer, every baby, every social worker, every businessman, every student in university, every student in our schools, everyone who seeks to camp in a park, everyone who wants to pursue recreation, everyone who wants to invest in our province, every single Manitoban counts to this government, and we represent them all, Mr. Speaker.
* (16:00)
Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): It gives me pleasure today to rise to speak on the budget that has just been presented in this House.
I think it is important to
note that the government, when they brought this budget, that it is the
highest-spending budget that this
Well, what has changed in
this province is the attitude of government. The attitude of government has
changed dramatically in this province. I remember well in 1999 when we went
into the election campaign and we told the people of
Well, all I say to you, Mr. Speaker, is that our government, when we were in government, planned well. We planned for those increased revenues. We knew what those increased revenues would be. We told Manitobans that, because those revenue increases would be there over the next four years, from 1999 until 2003, we would put half of that money into health care and education, of that billion dollars, and half of it we would give back to Manitobans in a reduction in taxes.
Well, let us look at the record, Mr. Speaker, to see what this government has done, this NDP government that was fortunate enough to win the election at that time, but based on a bunch of misinformation that they told the people. What they said at that time, what the Premier (Mr. Doer) of this province, today's Premier, the NDP Premier, said was, "Give us $15 million and six months and we will fix your health care system."
I was quite taken aback by what the Minister of Health (Mr. Sale) just told this House a few minutes ago, when he gave us a diatribe of expenditures that they had made in health care and other areas in this province, bringing the total expenditures in this province to better than $8 billion, $8 billion. That is an increase in expenditures of over $2 billion in five years. How long are Manitobans going to be able to afford those kinds of increases in expenditure? This government is a spendthrift government. Spend and smile is what they have said.
What I also have found interesting in this budget, in yesterday's speech, was that because they had taken virtually all of the money that was left in the rainy day fund, except for $79 million that had still been left in it, they were now going to put back $314 million. If that $314 million would have been a surplus, I would have applauded them. As a matter of fact, I said to the media I was pleased that this government saw fit to put the money back where they had taken it from.
But, Mr. Speaker, I say this to you. I had not looked at the budget when I made that statement to the media. Had I had an opportunity to view the budget, as I have now, do you know what I would have said? I would have said, "What is this government doing?" They went to the bank and borrowed better than $500 million which they are paying–what is the going rate of interest–probably 5%, 6% interest they are paying, and then they are putting it in a rainy day fund which they will probably get 2 or 3 percent from, maybe 3 at the most, but maybe 2. So they are paying 4% interest, let us say in the neighbourhood of 4% interest, to have the money sitting idly in a rainy day fund. Only governments that do not have a clue of what true economics really means and true financing of operations really means would do that sort of stuff. They would not, when there is a huge deficit being run up in a given fiscal year, go to the bank and borrow money to put in a rainy day fund. That, to me, is absolutely irresponsible, and that is what that move yesterday was. It was irresponsible.
Have we seen the tax reductions that this minister is now talking about, that this government is talking about? I do not see them. They are talking about a half a percent of reduction on small businesses, and I applaud them. The small business people will be happy that they at least got a half a percent. They talk about a small percentage of decrease in, I think it comes to $11 a year for the average family in this province, one pack of cigarettes a year, that they are going to now save on reduction of income tax. They are talking now about the kind of programming the business community in this province needs but will not get from this government.
I am going to suggest to this House that,
because of the kind of misrepresentation we have seen time and time again on
issues, people of
I want to talk a little
bit about the agricultural situation in the province and the crop disaster much
of
Now, the Minister of
Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk) has said they are adding $20-some-odd million to
their budget this year. What I find most interesting is that we have a CAIS
program, the Canadian Agricultural Income Support program, in place in this
province as well as the other provinces, and yet the CAIS program does not
function. Many organizations, KAP, the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, the Farmers Union and many others have lobbied
It does not surprise me that the minister
refused last week to raise this issue properly when she met with the federal minister
and her provincial counterparts. But it requires farmers to put a large amount
of money in a bank account, which farmers do not have. They have to go to the
bank and borrow this money to put it in an account that just sits there. Those
farmers are not able to use that money unless their income trigger drops below
their average income. Well, if you have had an average income such as
* (16:10)
In the case of the BSE, the cattle industry and the ruminant industry that has been so hard hit by border closures, they are telling me that because we have not been able to sell our cattle, our inventories have grown, and inventories have retained value and because their inventory, in some cases, has doubled or more, they are deemed to have had increases in income, yet they have no money to pay their grocery bills. This CAIS program is not triggering. Why is it not triggering? Because it needs some rejigging to make it more receptive to drops in income and to remove it. It needs to have the inventory provision removed because every time you sell an inventory that becomes an income item and therefore will be picked up in the next cycle.
I think this government
should pay a lot more attention, and the Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk)
should, in fact, take this message to
I think we are starting
to see the effect now of the
rejigging of the Agriculture Department and the establishment of different
levels of offices in different
communities. We heard today the announcement that Crop Insurance and MACC,
Manitoba Agricultural Credit Corporation, would be joined. I have seen lots of
marriages that work well. I have seen lots of mergers that work well, but to
merge a bank with an insurance company, it is seldom, if ever, that I have seen
that before. Here the government of
You have to wonder what
is behind that. You really have to wonder what is behind that. Will the
We decentralized. We
decentralized government and we were very proud of that. It worked really well.
It caused growth in rural
I say to you, Mr. Minister, that if this merger is designed to eventually move the office and the operations back into the city of Winnipeg, there will be significant electoral pain, I believe, in Brandon and Portage la Prairie and other communities, because they like those fairly well-paid employees to be residents of Brandon and Portage, and certainly we can understand that.
I also want to talk a little bit about the Minister of Agriculture rolling into her budget the tax credit that they have extended to the farm community. I want to talk a bit about that education tax credit that this government has extended to the agricultural community on farmland. Again, I go back to this last election. Our platform was that we would remove entirely the agricultural portion and residence portion on the education tax, on property tax. What did this government say? This government loudly proclaimed, "Where are those Tories going to get the money to pay for the education of the children of this province?"
If you look at today's
budget, we said then there would be increased revenues to cover the cost and
the NDP Premier laughed at it in front of the cameras. There would not be that
increase in revenue. Well, look at what has happened. Look at how many dollar
transfers you have received from the federal government. That is unprecedented,
the level of support that this government has seen from
I want to speak a little bit about the transportation budget, because we have constantly heard about the increased spending on our roads and our bridges and those kinds of things. Well, I want to say to you, Mr. Speaker, that there is going to be a meeting at Dominion City, Manitoba, next week, Tuesday, Tuesday following this Sunday.
An Honourable Member: What is the meeting about?
Mr. Penner: There will be a meeting, and we will be talking about a bridge that will be closed at Letellier on Highway 201. It will be closed to traffic. Anything over 16 tons will not be allowed across that bridge because the bridge is about to fall into the river. That is how bad repair it is. They are going to close it to one-lane traffic. Only one vehicle at a time will be able to cross. They will put lights on each end of the bridge and then they will let one car or one truck at a time across that bridge.
Do you know what it means? That the farmer on west side of the river that owns land on the east side of the river will not be able to cross that bridge with his tractor. Because a big four-wheel drive tractor is heavier than 16 tons. And if you put an air seeder behind it, you cannot cross because the one lane will be far too narrow for them to allow that air seeder to cross.
So what are they going to do? I was told this morning by the minister's staff out in our region that they are going to have to take the air seeders around by Morris, which would be a 60-mile trip before they get on to their land, those people that live within a mile of the land that they operate, a 60-mile trip by tractor.
Now, we had this bridge in the budget, and this bridge was slated for rebuilding because the department had said continually, "This bridge will one day fall into the river if you do not repair it." Well, it is about to fall into the river. The deck, it is about time that the trucks will actually fall through the deck in the river.
So I think it is time
that this government put its priorities where they should be put. I have not
seen a highway or road built south of
In fact, I would like the
minister of water to come out to
* (16:20)
The only criterion in this province to get a road built or a highway built is are you an NDP or are not you. I think 59 highway demonstrated it, because they stopped the project right at an NDP riding. That is where they stopped it. That is where the NDP ends; that is where the highways end. There are no roads beyond NDP country in this province, and I think it is time this NDP government recognizes that its responsibility is to all Manitobans, as it is in health.
Closing all hospitals,
the numbers of hospitals,
And these people talk
about health care? Increasing health care services? I think it is time we
recognize that service in need should be done based on need, not based on what
your politics are. I think we have seen far too much of that in this province
so far. People are telling me all over the province. We were in
I want to talk a little bit about the floodway, which is my critic's responsibility now, and Water Stewardship. I looked long and hard, and I know the Minister of Water Stewardship (Mr. Ashton) is sitting right here. I looked long and hard in his budget for a significant amount of money to accomplish the work that he has so loudly said the legislation that they are doing would be needed in force to accomplish the work that they were going to do.
Where is the money in the
budget to look at the urban community's needs, to look at their sewage disposal
needs, and to ensure that those waters
that we dump out of the sewage lagoons and into our river every year, are in fact safe? I
cannot understand, when I drive into the city of
You know what is five miles north of the mouth
of the
I had to take all of my
drinking water out of that
The City of
I want to talk a little bit about the labour agreement that was just announced this morning. I found it very interesting that they would release that on the day that they would bring forward the budget and the morning that we would start debating the budget, trying to hide what they had put in writing, trying to hide it during the debate and the confusion in the Legislature, that the media would be distracted. The agreement says that one third of the employees working on that floodway must be unionized. Must be unionized. One third must be Aboriginal, and the one third that are non-unionized and non-Aboriginal will have to pay the union dues to the unions.
You know what I think
this is? I think this is a drafted agreement that will put a huge amount of
money into the slush fund of the NDP party. That is what I think this is designed to do, and
I think it is about time that the
NDP government owns up to this. You know I hate to think of what we are doing
here. If I was not living in
Well, look at what you are doing. Based on colour, you are making the decision. I think that is deplorable. I thought we were all Manitobans. Regardless of what colour, what race or what creed, we are all Manitobans. Government should treat all Manitobans equally. Are we doing that in this agreement? I do not think so, and I think that is unfortunate when governments overstep their bounds in serving the needs of their people, regardless of what colour, or what race, or what creed they are. That should be done, but that is not happening in this agreement. I think it is time that we looked at this.
I want to conclude by saying that if we had ever seen this kind of revenue increase when we were in government we would have not only balanced the budget, we would have managed our affairs in this government. We would have managed the affairs of government in such a way that we would not have the kind of deficits and the kind of debt load incurred, the kind of debt and debt load that this government is incurring, $2 billion more debt in this budget than we have seen before, $2 billion more debt over the last four or five years. That is unbelievable.
So, Mr. Speaker, I say it
is the responsibility of this Chamber to address these issues and make sure
that that kind of overspending and debt incurrence will not happen again in
this
* (16:30)
Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Water Stewardship): Mr. Speaker, before making my comments on the budget, I would like to, given this is my first opportunity since the tragic events in Alberta in which four RCMP officers were so tragically killed in the line of duty, as someone that represents eight communities, that lives in Thompson, that is served very well by the RCMP, I want to put on the record that I have not heard anybody in my own community who has not felt this directly. I know there are many of the recruits who have come through, in fact, they are posted to Thompson, they are feeling this as if it was a loss of a member of their own family.
I want to put on the record that I respect the work the RCMP does, and on behalf of my constituents we know when we see the tragedy that occurred, we appreciate I think that much more how each and every day the members of the RCMP put their lives on the line to protect our security and to protect our society. I wanted to put that on the record on behalf of all of my constituents.
I also, Mr. Speaker, want to talk about the budget, of course, and I must say I have had the opportunity to speak to a few budgets in the past.
An Honourable Member: How many?
Mr. Ashton: You know, a few.
What I find interesting is budgets tell you a lot about the government. They tell you a lot about the political situation of the day. They tell you a lot about the opposition as well.
Mr. Speaker, I want to put on the record, some of you may recall in the Throne Speech, I put forward the argument that I think is becoming increasing more apparent as we see this session unfold, of how the Conservatives have become the Bush-Harper Conservatives in this province. I outlined the obvious fact that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Murray) is a big admirer of George Bush. In fact, he indicated to me that if he had a chance to vote he would have voted for George Bush in the last election, how at the last convention the provincial Conservatives proudly proclaimed that they are once again one family. I can just hear the strains of the music "We Are Family" coming from their convention. They have Steven Harper, now, hugging the Leader of the Opposition, the Bush-Harper Conservatives, the Bush-Harper-Murray Conservatives, I guess would be the Manitoba version.
Mr. Harry Schellenberg,
Acting Speaker, in the Chair
I indicated some surprise that the members opposite, faced with defeat in 1999, to be faced with an even greater in the last election, would not have maybe spent some time trying to figure out what happened, and how come they have managed to be so far out of touch with the majority of Manitobans.
Let us put it up front
here. Governments come and go and majorities come and go, but it was pretty, I
think, unique to see in
You might have thought
they would at least have assessed the fact that they do not have any seats in
northern
Indeed, the many areas,
you know I look at
That having been said, I have to admit my Bush-Harper comparison is starting to just erode a little bit. We have just seen the unique spectacle of the federal Conservatives sort of supporting the federal Liberal budget. You do not have to, if you are an opposition party, vote against the budget. I think the Harper Conservatives have shown that. I think they are probably making a mistake, but they tactically understood they would not have much credibility voting against the budget. That was their view so they made that decision. Well, I watched the budget yesterday, and you could have heard a pin drop on the Conservative benches. I have seen budgets come and go. I have had budgets that were easier to vote for, and ones that were maybe a little bit tougher to vote for. I have even had the unique position of voting when we were in opposition for the government budget. I have had some experience, but I am just trying to run through what members opposite, in a remote sense, have to attack in this budget.
When I think of our visions in this
Legislature, I often put myself in the
shoes of the average Manitoban. What would they expect from a government? I
would say the first thing they expect is a government that is going to
represent all
In this budget, you will
see things that benefit northern
I then look at prudent fiscal management in this particular case. I want to put on the record that this is really only the second time there has been any significant investment in the Fiscal Stabilization Fund. The first time was when the original fund was created when the then government took a surplus, threw it into the Fiscal Stabilization Fund to try and bring down the printed surplus and then establish the fund. The second time was when the Conservatives in 1996 sold off MTS, dumped it into the Fiscal Stabilization Fund and spent it.
We have built up the Fiscal Stabilization Fund and we did not have to sell a Crown Corporation, we did not have to fix the books, we did the prudent financial thing. We have rebuilt the Fiscal Stabilization Fund. Again, in terms of fiscal prudence, did we decrease our payment down in terms of the debt? No, in this budget, there is an increase from $90 million to $116 million. In addition to building up our savings account for a rainy day, we also paid down the debt. Did we stop there? No, we did not. We have done more again to deal with the unfunded pension liability. I say to members opposite, I think, in this particular case, you know, the kind of analogy I would use is a household. Here we have managed to pay down the mortgage. We built up our bank account. We have done the fiscally prudent things to do.
* (16:40)
An NDP government that gets good marks from the bond rating agencies, I tell you, I know members opposite cringe when they hear Moody's or any of the banks that have talked about our fiscal management. But I say, and I will say it on the record, that the NDP government in this province has proven that we can manage the province's finances. In fact, we do a heck of a lot better job than the Conservatives ever did. We did not sell a Crown corporation to pay back the Fiscal Stabilization Fund.
Well, does it end there? It does not end there because, you know, members opposite they like to start a clock in 1999. I mentioned it in the Throne Speech, there is that lost decade, actually 11 years, they do not like to talk about that. I know the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Murray) particularly likes to ignore that Conservative period of time, because if you were to hear them in their budget speeches, and the Leader of the Opposition earlier with his oratory, the great tax-cutters here, the ones so concerned about the average Manitoban, well, I went back, and it is interesting to read the budget documents to remind you of the Tory record and then our record.
I want you to consider this: Was it the Conservative government that reduced income taxes? No, it was the NDP government. Was it the Conservative government that cut corporate taxes? No, it was the NDP government who cut it for the first time since the Second World War. How about small business tax? Conservatives? No, it was the NDP.
Mr. Acting Speaker, you run through each and every measure, in terms of taxation. In this particular case, we have not only invested in services, we have not only been able to bring down the Fiscal Stabilization Fund, we have also been able to provide tax relief. That is one of my tests, as well, for the average person out there because, I would say, there is not one person in Manitoba that would not say that they want a government that does have a sense of the social and economic needs of Manitobans, but also understands the need to run an efficient fiscal framework and to have affordable government.
So I start looking at these check marks, and a start saying to myself, "How could members opposite not support this budget?" But then I am reminded again that maybe they diverge from the Bush-Harper agenda on tactics. But you know what? If you ever wanted to see how this opposition party has moved further and further to the right, if that was possible, compared to the 1990s, you just have to look at some of the comments we just saw in the budget debate.
Mr. Acting Speaker, I want to put on the record that I want to give the Member for Emerson (Mr. Penner) some credit because I think he has put forward the agenda of the Conservative Party probably more directly and honestly than any other member. I want you to be reminded here that the member has now gone from being Agriculture critic to Water Stewardship critic. That is one of the key environmental portfolios that we have put in place as a government. I would assume that you make a real statement as a leader and a party by who you put in as a critic.
I cannot mention the
critic by name. But, you know, I remember a couple of years ago when the Member
for Emerson, when he was not talking about raising the sales tax to deal with
our fiscal situation, said that climate change is not a problem, climate change
is not a problem. Now, you know, there are thousands of scientists saying it is
a problem. Now, enough countries in the world have signed the
An Honourable Member: The Flat Earth Society.
Mr. Ashton: I am going to get to the Flat Earth Society in a minute.
I do not think that that would rate you very highly on environmental issues. But, you know, clearly it is a start. You know what is interesting? The same member also likes to talk about water issues.
Let us be up front here.
I probably have the easiest job in this Legislature, being the Minister of
Water Stewardship, because the vision of this government in terms of
It starts from the idea
that maybe there are some challenges
out there,
Now we have the critic, and maybe that was not the only reason he was appointed critic, referencing before the fact that we have in the newly signed master agreement for the floodway, by the way, I want to put on the record that it was the Building Trades Council that was involved with discussions, the Floodway Expansion Authority, the Winnipeg Construction Association, but we had the member from Emerson call employment equity provisions in the floodway agreement apartheid. Apartheid. Well, I want to put on the record that everyone including, to their credit, I want to give credit to the Heavy Construction Association which did not necessarily agree with all of the discussions or all the provisions that were being taken, but they supported employment equity. But I want to put on the record that we have had in this province for at least 20 years a commitment to represent the cultural diversity of this province in the hiring of this province. We have employment equity in the civil service, which was maintained by the Conservatives. That includes opportunities for all Manitobans. I want to say to the member from Emerson, shame on the member from Emerson and shame on the Conservatives opposite for showing their true colours and opposing employment equity on the floodway. Our floodway project will have job opportunities for all Manitobans, including Aboriginal people, including visible minorities, including women, including the disabled. We are committed to employment equity and we believe Manitobans are committed to employment equity.
The member opposite should withdraw the insulting reference to apartheid because those of us who fought against apartheid for many decades know what apartheid is. Employment equity is about fairness for Manitobans. We make no apologies for that.
I am just talking about one critic here. We could go through the rest of the benches.
Mr. Acting Speaker, I have said this, members opposite have really staked out this idea. I would say they have run through this strategy before, because I do not think I have heard the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Murray) go through one Question Period where he has not got up and talked about the 1999 election. They are so stuck back in this idea that, somehow, there was like an apparition in 1999 and then again in the last election. The Conservatives always had this natural governing party vision of themselves. They really think that others are not qualified enough or other parties are not good enough. That has always been part of their view. But you know what strikes me about it? This is like their first strategy. It is kind of pretend it did not happen, pretend the election was stolen from them.
But the second thing, I think it is incredible when you look at this, is that what they are essentially doing is they are getting into not trying to bridge out to more people. They are actually starting to get narrower and narrower, angrier and angrier. They are starting to sound just like the Bush-Harper Conservatives I talked about. We have seen it today. The federal Conservatives. They are not a government, because they are out of touch with where Canadians are at in terms of the economy, in terms of social issues, that angry, exclusionary view of the world.
* (16:50)
I heard the member from
Emerson earlier in Question Period yelling about immigration; people were
buying farmland. Mr. Acting Speaker, we are proud of the fact that we are
increasing immigration in this province. We are proud of that. As an immigrant
myself who moved to
So, to members opposite, before they tie themselves to this view of the world that says there are only certain parts of the province and there are only certain people in this province that are worthy of consideration, I want to suggest that they wake up to the reality, to the fact that our NDP government not only reflects the diversity of this province in terms of our composition in this House geographically but is committed to its diversity in terms of ethnocultural diversity, in terms of the need for proper representation of both genders, men and women, in all walks of life. We do not just do it on the floodway; we do it in terms of what we do within government. We practise it when we talk about immigration; we practise it with each and every government program.
Mr. Speaker in the Chair
Might I suggest to members opposite that, and I know, by the way, that they will not listen to this so I am not going to risk giving them any advice here that they will follow up on, but governments usually start with a couple of things. You have certain basic principles that your party stands for, and in my mind you maintain those principles. What are our principles, Mr. Speaker? I would say we believe in public health care; we believe in a strong public education system. We believe in investing in infrastructure; we believe that is one key role of government. We also believe that you have to have fiscal balance and fairness. We also believe that, at a time especially that we have now when the economy is certainly in a good part of the province showing signs of significant health, you remember those that do not have. You know what? I do not have a single farmer in my constituency, but I am proud to be part of a government that has increased spending on agriculture by 18 percent in this budget. That is showing concern for Manitobans in need.
I want to add to that the
many Manitobans who are not faced with a crisis this year or the next year but
through reasons of poverty face a lifelong crisis without the kinds of supports
that we are seeing in place. I want to say I am also proud to be part of a
government that in this budget has significant anti-poverty initiatives. I want
to put on the record that we have
increased the income assistance rates
in northern
Mr. Speaker, I do not know if I can maybe speak just a few minutes before completing my remarks. I am almost afraid that, when you are a second-term government, what I am a bit concerned about is, third-term government, any level. You know, I am not being too boastful because I know what will happen. Members opposite will say, "Well, there you are again. You are boastful, you are boasting." Well, I want to boast a bit.
An Honourable Member: Arrogant.
Mr. Ashton: Well, it is not being arrogant. I want to be humble when I state
this. I hope Hansard can reflect the humility in which I say that we have had
the strongest population growth in more than 20 years. More youth are making
Mr. Speaker, this one is good. Housing starts are up 73 percent since we came into government. You know what? I represent a lot of homeowners, and there are a lot of people in this Legislature, you want to ask what is the No. 1 barometer of your personal well-being in this province, the average Manitoban will say the value of their house. Guess what? I will not tell you what it was in the 1990s, but since we have been in power, housing values have gone up 36 percent.
An Honourable Member: Put your sunglasses on.
Mr. Ashton: I know. The future is so bright, I need shades, right? I mentioned international immigration; it is up dramatically, and we are going to hit the 10 000 target. But you know what, I talked about homeowners, I talked about young people. What about those businesses? What is investment growth forecast? Mr. Speaker, 7.1 percent, higher than the Canadian average.
I could talk about a lot of other things; $16 million more for highways. It is interesting. I remember when the Tories, you know, those great friends of rural Manitoba, you know what they spent? As little as $93 million on highways. So let the Member for Emerson (Mr. Penner) not lecture anybody about highway spending. We have increased it by $16 million. Mr. Speaker, $145 million. That is the difference you get with an NDP government.
Mr. Speaker, I could run through the rest of the list, but I think I make my case. Ask average Manitobans what they expect. They expect a government that is balanced. They expect a government committed to economic growth. We are. They expect a government committed to public health. We are. They expect a government committed to public education, public services like our highway system, and they are. They expect a government that is going to represent the broad interests of Manitobans and not get into the divide-and-conquer style of Tory politics, trying to pit one Manitoban against the other.
Mr. Speaker, they see their values as Manitobans reflected in this government. And what I want to say in this opportunity I have in the budget debate is just to remind Manitobans of the fact that when I said before I wanted to boast a bit, I also want to understand it. You always have to be humble in politics to recognize that you represent your constituents, and it is a huge responsibility, and I want to put on the record that I have had the opportunity to represent people of my constituency for many years, but I have seen more progress for Thompson constituency and northern Manitoba in the last five years than in decades.
In the position as MLA for Thompson, and I think I am boasting again a bit here, but on behalf of the entire community, this year will see the construction of the first personal care home in Thompson, Manitoba, the third largest city. When I go home on the weekends, and by the way, when I drive on Highway 6 this weekend, and I said to the minister of highways, I like when I pull up into Ashern and Grand Rapids and Ponton and back home in Thompson, and you know what they are saying about our highways? Highway 6 has never been in better shape than it has been.
When I look at the
training in Nisichawayasihk Cree
Nation, the partnership on hydro, and the partnership that is being signed soon
with
* (17:00)
Mr. John Loewen (Fort
Whyte): I will in due course address some comments
to the minister's statement, but I would first of all like to preface my
comments to the budget debate by extending the condolences from myself, my
family and everybody in Fort Whyte to the families, friends and loved ones of
the four RCMP officers that were killed in the line of duty so recently. It is
something that touches all of us in this House and all of us across our whole
community. Just on behalf again of my constituents, I would like to extend our
best wishes to those families as they recover from this tragedy, but I also
want to let all law enforcement officers know that the constituents in
I want to touch briefly on one other point because this is the first time I have had to offer my congratulations to Jennifer Jones and her curlers who have won the Canadian championship and are hopefully on their way to winning the world championship. I must inform members of the House that I was fortunate enough to have Colleen work for us back in the mid nineties at Comcheq. As a young woman then, she certainly showed the dedication and spirit that we saw come to fruition in her run to the Canadian championship. Certainly, a very dedicated, intelligent and hardworking young woman, and I am sure that applies to every member of her rink and all those involved, including coaches.
I would like to say though that I am somewhat disappointed that the First Minister (Mr. Doer) did not have the courtesy to invite other members of the House to the presentation of the medal on Monday. I think it was short-sighted and petty on the First Minister's behalf. I will have the opportunity to see Colleen, but I just think those types of celebrations should be open to all members of the House. I think it is important that we show unification.
I am sorry. I said "Colleen Jones." I meant, just correct me, Jennifer Jones. I apologize for that. I think I watch too much curling, cheering her on that week, but Jennifer, believe me, we know who you are and what you have accomplished.
The previous speaker, the
Minister for Water Stewardship (Mr. Ashton), put some interesting comments on
the record. Unfortunately, none of them are really directed toward the future
of
It is fine. We all know the cycle of politics, and we have to suffer through it. He is here and he was there when there were 12 and he sat through three terms in opposition, something that I do not think those on this side of the House will be doing.
More to the point, the minister indicated that his party had balanced the books. The NDP government had managed to balance the books, and I quote, "without fixing the books." The important part for the members opposite to understand is he said "without fixing the books," and in fact he said his party, his government, the NDP government was direct and honest about it.
Before I get into the
budget, I just want to go back to the Auditor's report of last year. It would
be interesting if the minister would actually take the time to read that
report, because in there he will find that the Auditor General of the
In fact, he goes on to
say, and the minister went on and on about how they balanced the budget year
over year over year. Well, again, the Auditor General identifies for all members
opposite, and they should take this to heart, and I quote again from his
report, and this is referring to the people of
So, when they get up in
this House and try to convince members opposite, try to convince the people of
When the Auditor General
talks about debt, he indicated that the debt has, in fact, increased in '04 by
$1.2 billion. I hope the Minister of Education can understand a number that
large: $1.2 billion. It is considerably more than the less than $30 million he
put into capital expenditure last year on public schools. Mr. Speaker, $1.2
billion is how high the debt increased. In fact, in '03, the debt increased by
$437 million. In '02, the debt increased by $350 million. In '01, well, here is
a break. The debt actually decreased by, get this, $22 million. But then we go
back to 2000, and it increased by $175 million. So, year after year after year,
the Doer government is continuing to pile up debt in the
I realize that the Finance Minister tries to explain it away that, oh, well, we have had to adopt these accounting changes. As a matter of fact, he should take some time and explain it to the Minister of Education, whose only explanation last year for the fact that he could not support the public school system by building schools was that they had a glitch: "Oh, well, we have had a glitch. I do not know what it is. I cannot explain it, but, you know, I know it is a glitch, so we cannot do what we said we would do." Well, perhaps the Minister of Education should take a little more time to read the document.
Now, one thing that the Auditor General also goes on to explain, which, of course, nobody on the opposite side of the House will even dare to touch, is that fact that this glitch that has caused this problem in the construction of public schools in the province of Manitoba was actually a result of the NDP government's refusal to adopt a change in accounting presentation and process that was put forward in 1999. They did not do it until the Auditor General finally caught them and forced them to do it. Where is the Finance Minister on that? He says, "Ah, well, gee, we did not realize we made a mistake." They never would have done it had they not been caught by the Auditor General. I think that is a fact. That is what we see from the NDP government day in and day out on this side of the House. I think it is unfortunate.
Well, the Minister of
Industry claims I am wrong. As we saw today, there will be lots more coming the
Minister of Industry's way. He and his predecessor have single-handedly managed
to dry up venture capital pools in the
In fact, I will read it. I will quote from the Auditor General's report: "Without the above variations from generally accepted accounting principles, the special purpose operating fund and special funds financial statements would have reflected increased assets by $2.7 billion, increased liabilities by $3 billion"–again a shortfall–"increased accumulated deficit by $292 million, increased revenues by $705 million, and expenses would have increased by $1.2 billion." That is the problem we have with the NDP government. They absolutely refuse, time and time again, to be direct and honest.
* (17:10)
The minister of water conservation and the Minister of Education (Mr. Bjornson) should actually come to grips with that fact and maybe take that message back to their Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger). Maybe implore him and plead with him, as should the rest of their caucus, to actually come clean and be open, direct and honest. If the members opposite do not like what I have to say, then I would ask them to simply just go sit down with the Auditor General for a little bit because I will tell you he will tell them exactly where it is at.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I have to say that today I have witnessed one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever heard on financial affairs of a province from the Minister of Health (Mr. Sale). For him, in his earlier speech, to stand up and somehow say that the NDP government is managing well because, get this, and I quote from his speech, because "the net general debt is less than revenue." Somehow he tried to explain that he has some incredible business acumen that would allow him to say the two numbers that he quoted are relevant.
Well, I would invite the Minister of Health to sit down with the Finance Minister. Hopefully, he would be able to get it right. Any businessperson who has experience, other than maybe a few on that side of the House, and they would surely tell him that your level of debt and your level of revenue have absolutely nothing to do with each other. The only way that you can justify a level of debt is if you can service the interest payments, not through your revenue, but through your profit. He does not even come close to understanding that. He somehow thinks–and this is a problem with the budgeting process for the NDP government. They have no understanding of the simplest of financial concepts.
Now, Mr. Speaker, here we have the government which says that the cost of debt is decreasing, and it is, but it has nothing to do with the level of debt going down. It has everything to do with the cost of interest going down, something that this government neither had anything to do with, nor can take any credit for. We all know the cycles. Interest rates go up; interest goes down. There is a cycle in the economy. The dollar goes up; the dollar goes down. Economic growth goes up, we head into recession. The biggest problem, quite frankly, that we see with this budget is the fact that there is no view to the future as to what kind of shape this NDP government is going to leave the people of Manitoba and the finances of Manitoba in when the next recession hits.
Once again, by then I am
sure we will have a change of government, and it will be left up to leveller
heads in order to do a good job of managing the finances of the
Mr. Speaker, I want to speak directly to some of the statements that the Finance Minister has made in the budget speech because, quite frankly, they are as misleading by omission as the Auditor General pointed out in his report. I will start on page 1, where the Finance Minister says, "Budget 2005 is built on four key pillars," and the first one is paying down the debt. Well, in reality, the debt has not been paid down. Payments have been made against the debt; payments have been made against the pension plan.
These payments were laid
out. [interjection] Well, thank you.
You should clap for the foresight of then-Premier Filmon and his Cabinet who
laid out a schedule in the nineties, laid out a schedule and followed it for
paying down debt. That schedule went from $75 million to $96 million and
increased to the point where debt in the
The minister has the gall to stand up in this House and tell Manitobans that he is paying down debt. I will give him this. He is making a payment against the debt, but the debt as we see in the budget book is rising. So, once again, a statement that is misleading by omission, over and over and over again.
I find it rather
interesting too that the third of his pillars is keeping our promise on tax
reductions. You slide back into the book where he actually talks to that, and I
refer the members to page 17 of the budget speech. It changes. It changes from
keeping our promises on tax reduction to keeping
I would remind all members opposite, and I would invite them to ask the Minister of Finance to share with them the budget recommendations from the Business Council who represents the largest businesses in our province, the largest employers, employs over 65 000 people, accounts for over $25 billion in annual revenue worldwide. Every year for six years they have told this government to focus on competitiveness, and every year for six years this government has ignored them. They do so at the peril of the economy.
Mr. Speaker, we simply
look at the facts, and we find out in virtually every category that from the
competitive nature
My message to the minister and the message from the business community is simple: If you are going to reduce taxes, and you should reduce taxes, do it on the taxes that affect businesses before they make a profit. In other words, get rid of the capital tax. Get rid of the payroll tax because those taxes are imposed on business before that business has a chance to make a profit. That is why the business community refers to those taxes as job killers. This year in the budget, as we see, we have projections that those two taxes are going to be in the neighbourhood of $467 million. That is the payroll tax and the capital tax, and the minister has not touched them.
I would just remind all
members opposite that, in fact, in the last year, they have received an
unbudgeted increase from the federal government of $471 million; $471 million,
unprecedented. That would have allowed this government to eliminate–and I hope
they understand–to eliminate not only the payroll tax, but the capital tax,
make
Now I know the members
are very literal in their translation. I do not want to leave them with the
impression that I would suggest that they cut those in one year, but they
should have a plan. They do not have a plan in order to eliminate the payroll
tax and the capital tax so that
There are other interesting statistics that the Finance Minister puts forward in the budget and, you know, again, because I realize most members opposite do not have the patience to go through it in detail, but for their edification and, you know, the Minister of Industry (Mr. Rondeau), I doubt that he even knows this, so I will tell him, but over 94 percent of businesses in Manitoba employ less than 50 people.
An Honourable Member: Are you accurate?
Mr. Loewen: Well, of course, I am accurate. It is in the budget document. The minister, of course, has to ask because he has not taken the time to read it, and I would encourage him to do that. He is obviously not doing anything on the Crocus file so he might spend his time doing something.
* (17:20)
Mr. Speaker, the objective of this province, the objective of economic policy should be to help those 94 percent. The Minister of Industry (Mr. Rondeau) has the gall to sit here and laugh and chide me to talk about Crocus. There will be lots of time to chide about Crocus. Perhaps he should go out and tell the 33 000 Manitobans who are getting hit and hit hard in their retirement income due to his and the previous minister's total lack of interest in this file. Perhaps he should go out and explain to them what is going on instead of sitting in this House and laughing and making a mockery of it. I would encourage him to do that.
Mr. Speaker, we have 94
percent of the businesses in
There is nothing in the
economic policy of this government which encourages that, in fact, exactly the
opposite. We hear time and time again from manufacturers, from others involved
in business in
One cannot blame them. With this punitive tax regime that we have in the province of Manitoba, one cannot blame them for looking how to grow their businesses outside this province. I am not referring to exports. I am referring to where they build their plants, to where they establish their businesses, to where they hire their employees, to where they pay their taxes on those expansions. Unfortunately for the people of Manitoba, it is not in Manitoba.
But I understand the economic policy of the NDP government. I think it was summed up in the Member for Interlake's (Mr. Nevakshonoff) first speech in this House, which ranks right up there with the Minister of Health's (Mr. Sale) comments today, where he said in Hansard–and you can check it. I know you were not here, Mr. Minister, you can check it on the record–where he was thankful that there were so many poor people in the province of Manitoba because poor people tended to vote NDP. I mean, look it up in Hansard. What a ridiculous, ridiculous strategic plan for this government: we want more poor people in Manitoba.
The Minister of Family Services and Housing (Ms. Melnick) shakes her head. I will bring her Hansard tomorrow because I know she will not bother to look it up, but that is what he said and that is what is on the record. The minister of highways knows that. He was here, and I hope he was as appalled as I was at that statement. All those ministers ought to be totally embarrassed by his performance in this House.
I would remind members
opposite, and I see my time is closing in on me, they received this year over
$551 million in new income, but they did not take advantage of the opportunity
to make
One of the fundamental tenets of the Romanow report was that in order to solve this health care funding crisis we have to come to grips with the fact that with most health care procedures we have no idea of what they should cost because there is no costing built into the system. It is all just based on the government sets a value and sets it out. Our hospitals have no idea of what it costs them to do a knee replacement, what it costs them to perform cardiac surgery. Until we get into that level of costing, we will not find a solution to this funding crisis.
We have seen, Mr. Speaker, in the last five years that the percentage of budget spent on health care has gone from around–sorry, I just have to grab the figure here. It was down in the low 30% range in the year 2000, and now, in fact, we are seeing that in this year's budget it is well above that. As a matter of fact, if we look at the number that has been given to us by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), we see that our health care budget now eats up 41.7 percent, and in fact it is actually higher. Once you take out the debt costs, it eats up 43 percent of our total programming expenditures and we cannot sustain that.
The answer is not simply
every year to send the First Minister and the Minister of Finance down to
In terms of government finance, because they talk about it a lot, what we are seeing is that the federal transfer payments have gone as a percentage of revenue, and this is the type of stuff, the numbers I hoped the Minister of Health (Mr. Sale) would have put on the record. These are relevant numbers. In the year 2000, the budget indicated that federal transfer payments were at 30 percent. Mr. Speaker, 30 percent of our total revenue came from the federal government. Now that number in this year's budget is up to 34.2 percent, so close to 35% reliance on funding from the federal government. That is not a pass for the future; that is not a plan for the future. We need to grow our economy, and we need to do that by becoming more competitive.
Mr. Speaker, I want to
touch on education just briefly in the few minutes that I have left because it
is a very critical issue. This is a government that talks about their
investment in education. I will just remind the minister, and, hopefully, when
he talks about that 35, 35, 35, he will actually spend that–I am sorry, he has
corrected me–45, 45, 45. It grows every half hour. I just hope that he will go
through and actually spend that money, and I would hope he would recognize that
there are other constituencies out there not necessarily represented by NDP
members that deserve spending. Quite frankly, I would remind him that
There are some good
things in this budget, Mr. Speaker. Certainly, the re-announcement of the
Kenaston overpass is a welcomed re-announcement. It should have been built five
years ago, but this government's
vision was to build a bridge, a footbridge over the
But I want to talk about
their funding situation, particularly when it comes to post-secondary
education. The members from
Mr. Speaker: Order. When this matter is again before the House, the honourable
Member for
The time now being 5:30, this House is adjourned and stands adjourned until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow (Thursday).