LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF
Thursday,
March 9, 2006
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
PRAYER
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Hon. Jon Gerrard (
Motion presented.
Mr. Gerrard: Bill 210 provides anti-bullying measures to apply in public and private sector workplaces in order to achieve an improved workplace environment for workers and for employers. It is appropriate that this bill is introduced close to International Women's Day because women are disproportionately targets of bullying in the workplace, and this bill will be of particular benefit to working women.
Motion agreed
to.
Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), that Bill 23, The Safer Communities and Neighbourhoods Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi visant à accroître la sécurité des collectivités et des quartiers, be now read a first time.
Motion presented.
Mr. Mackintosh: This bill strengthens the act to also allow premises to be shut down for such ongoing dangerous and negative uses as meth labs and other drug production, illegal, restricted or prohibited weapon and explosive storage or stockpiles, what I would call grooming houses where children are sexually exploited and, of course, Mr. Speaker, does not target unregistered rifles or shotguns that are otherwise legal. Thank you.
Motion agreed to.
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (
The background to this petition is as follows:
The
As a direct result of the government not acting on what it knew, over 33,000 Crocus investors have lost tens of millions of dollars.
The relationship between some union leaders, the Premier (Mr. Doer) and the NDP seems to be the primary reason as for why the government ignored the red flags.
We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:
To request the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba to consider the need to seek clarification on why the government did not act on fixing the Crocus Fund back in 2001.
To urge the Premier and his government to co-operate in making public what really did happen.
Signed by:
* (13:35)
Mr. Speaker: In accordance with the Rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House.
These are the reasons for this petition:
A number of head-on collisions, as well as fatal accidents, have occurred on Highway 10.
Manitobans have expressed increasing concern about the safety of Highway 10, particularly near the two schools in Forrest where there are no road crossing safety devices to ensure student safety.
Manitobans have indicated that the deplorable road condition and road width is a factor in driver and vehicle safety.
It is anticipated that there will be an increased flow of traffic on this highway in the future.
We petition the Manitoba Legislative Assembly as follows:
To request the Minister of Transportation and Government Services (Mr. Lemieux) to consider providing sufficient resources to enhance driver and vehicle safety on Highway 10.
To request the Minister of Transportation and Government Services to consider upgrading Highway 10.
This petition is signed by Katie Wozney, Brenda Shoemaker, Amanda Swair and many, many others.
Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition.
These are the reasons for this petition:
Cancer is one of the leading causes of death of Manitobans.
Families are often forced to watch their loved ones suffer the devastating consequences of the disease for long periods of time.
New drugs such as Erbitux, Avastin, Zevalin, Rituxan, Herceptin and Eloxatin have been found to work well and offer new hope to those suffering from various forms of cancer.
Unfortunately, these innovative new
treatments are often costly and remain unfunded under
Consequently, patients and their families are often forced to make the difficult choice between paying for the treatment themselves or going without.
CancerCare
Several other provinces have already approved these drugs and are providing them to their residents at present time.
We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:
To request the Premier (Mr. Doer) of
To request the Premier of Manitoba and the Minister of Health to consider accelerating the process by which new cancer treatment drugs are approved so that more Manitobans are able to be treated in the most effective manner possible.
This petition is signed by Don Campbell, Robert Cassels, Vic Savelsbergh and many, many others.
* (13:40)
Introduction of Guests
Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today from the River West Park School 20 Grade 9 students under the direction of Mrs. Jennifer Saunders. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Member for Charleswood (Mrs. Driedger).
On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today.
Interfacility Transfers
Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Under this Doer NDP government, doctors are
leaving, emergency rooms are closed and hallway medicine has become highway
medicine.
My question is to the Premier. He is the
one who is responsible and he is the one who is accountable for this crisis in
the rural health care system. When will he stop offloading his failures onto
the backs of
Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I would point out that the members opposite brought in a specific health care user fee for northern people only. In fact, they said, quote: They did not vote the right way. We eliminated that two-class of Manitoban here in this province.
Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, the question clearly is about interfacility transfer payments. It is interesting that it was this Premier's own Minister of Health who called the practice of billing patients for interfacility ambulance transfers, and I quote the minister, he called them stupid.
Mr. Speaker, this government committed nearly six months ago to change those rules and yet, as we have seen in so many instances, they have done nothing. Broken promises do not pay ambulance bills.
Mr. Speaker, when will this Premier stop treating rural citizens like second-class citizens and fully fund interfacility ambulance transfers? When is he going to do it?
Mr. Doer: Moving on to the
lack of ambulance services in rural
Mr. Speaker: Order.
Mr. Doer: Well, maybe the Member for Emerson (Mr. Penner) might have raised it in his caucus when they delegated the issue of billing of ambulances to the rural health authorities that they had established under their administration. Number one, there is a lot of required–[interjection]
Well, the Member for Minnedosa (Ms. Rowat) might look at the new ambulances that are parked in the garage, something that did not happen when she was in office, Mr. Speaker.
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Mr. Speaker: Order.
* (13:45)
Mr. Doer: Thank you, Mr.
Speaker. The challenge for rural health care is, first of all, being dealt with
increased numbers of students in medical school and increased numbers of
doctors in rural
Secondly, we have introduced not only a nurses' training program, but a nursing training program that is targeted for rural and northern nurses which we think is also very important, something not introduced by members opposite.
Thirdly, diagnostic equipment and operating rooms in Steinbach, Selkirk, Thompson, The Pas, Mr. Speaker, and many other facilities. I know you cannot handle the truth.
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Mr. Speaker: Order.
Point of Order
Mr. Speaker: The honourable Official Opposition House Leader, on a point of order.
Mr. Leonard Derkach (Official Opposition House Leader): Mr. Speaker, on a point of order and just in response to what the Premier's last comment was. Indeed, we could handle the truth if he could find the way to tell the truth.
Mr. Speaker, the point of order is with regard to relevance to the question that was asked. The Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Murray) asked the question about interfacility transfers. This is a very, very important issue to rural Manitobans. Manitobans today in the rural part of this province have to pay the cost for being transferred from their hospitals which have been closed by this administration. The cost is not now the public cost, indeed, it has become the cost of the individual.
Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition has asked a question that the Minister of Health (Mr. Sale) himself acknowledged was a policy that was stupid, and those are his words. Six months ago he said that they were going to fix it.
We are asking the Premier today about that specific question. I ask the Premier then to sort of answer that question more specifically than just railing on about other issues.
Mr. Speaker: The honourable First Minister, on the same point of order?
Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, there are a number of pieces in the preamble and statements made by members opposite that I was addressing. Yes, there was a specific question on ambulance services, and I had not completed a) my second answer, and, b) I anticipate a third question on it which I will continue to try to attempt to answer the questions.
I think the point of order is totally out
of order, Mr. Speaker, and we should allow the question and answers to
continue. I am quite confident in the answers we have because I am very
confident in the long-term plan to reinstate better services for Manitobans
living in rural
Mr. Speaker: Order. On the point of order raised by the Official Opposition House Leader, he does not have a point of order. At this point it is a dispute over the facts.
* * *
Mr. Speaker: The honourable First Minister still has the floor and the honourable First Minister to continue to conclude your comments.
Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, we
did announce 163 new ambulances that is now contained in the budget as a third
year. Those ambulances have much greater capacity to deal with medical
emergencies with communication systems back and forth to emergency doctors in
rural
Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker,
the challenge they have in rural
Under this NDP Premier, rural Manitobans have
seen their health care services erode. Eleven emergency rooms throughout rural
For the past seven years, rural Manitobans
have witnessed this Premier turn their backs on their health care services, Mr.
Speaker. When will this Premier stop stalling? When will he get his head out of
the sand and do something with respect to rural health care in
Mr. Doer: In our Speech
from the Throne, we stated that as part of our long-term plan to reinstate
better services for rural Manitobans we would have a universal rate for
ambulance treatment in Manitoba– [interjection]
Well, Mr. Speaker, I know members opposite do not want to debate the budget,
but I would point out that we have a number of issues dealing with the budget
and ambulance services in rural
Mr. Speaker, 1) more ambulances, 165, that is part of the plan; 2) the whole issue of the dispatch unit; 3) more diagnostic equipment including an MRI in Brandon, in rural Manitoba; and, 4) a universal issue of ambulance fees. We are going to, in this session of the Legislature, reverse the unfair practices that were put in place by the previous government. That is a commitment we made to Manitobans and that is a commitment we are going to keep.
Funding Approval
Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): In July of last year the Minister of Health made a recommendation to the Province's drug review committee to fast track its approval of the breast cancer drug Herceptin. Yet, eight months later, Mr. Speaker, Herceptin has still not been approved for funding.
Why does the Minister of Health continue to stall on the approval of this lifesaving drug for many Manitobans?
Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, contrary to the member's information, Herceptin has been an approved drug for primary applications since 1992 in this province, and it has been approved since last summer for Agilent therapy for women, who have approximately 20 percent of breast cancer cases, who have the HER receptor and, therefore, can be helped by Herceptin. It is being administered on a case-by-case basis and has been administered since last summer. The member's information, as usual, is wrong.
Mrs. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health is, in fact, wrong. What is happening right now is that CancerCare Manitoba is having to make up for the extra funding for Herceptin because the government has not come through for that funding. I would suggest that the Minister of Health check his facts.
In July of last year the Minister of
Health said, and I quote, "I expect, as has been the case in the rest of
Mr. Sale: Well, I am glad the member has corrected the perception that she attempted to leave that women are not receiving this lifesaving therapy where their genetic makeup makes it an appropriate drug.
If we were able to proceed to the debate
of the budget, the member would find what is being provided for CancerCare
Mrs. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, I do not need to have to wait until Estimates to ask
questions about funding for cancer drugs in
Mr. Speaker, at a time of unprecedented
increases in transfer payments from the federal government for health care,
will the minister approve today the $12 million for CancerCare
Mr. Sale: Mr. Speaker, first of all, let me reiterate that we have been
working with CancerCare
* (13:50)
Deductible Increase
Mr. Jack Reimer (Southdale): Mr. Speaker, once again, this NDP government is targeting seniors and low-income Manitobans. For the fifth consecutive year, this NDP government has increased the Pharmacare deductible by almost up to 25 percent.
My question to the Minister responsible for Seniors (Ms. Oswald): Why is she, again, focussing seniors and low-income Manitobans to choose between either milk or medicine?
Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, our Pharmacare program remains
one of the fairest and one of the most comprehensive in the country. We cover
44 percent of all pharmaceuticals that are dispensed in the
The Canadian Diabetes Association has
recognized
Mr. Reimer: The budget that was
introduced on Monday really revealed the government's true intentions. At the
same time, this government then went out and crowed about its $9-tax cut to
seniors; $9, two and a half cents per day. Two and a half cents per day, that
is what the seniors got as a tax cut. They increased their deductible by $72.
That is a great advantage living in
If that is what the Minister of Health (Mr. Sale) thinks is a fair advantage, then I think he has it wrong. Why are they doing this on the backs of seniors?
Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, the member opposite seems to forget that that was the government that cut the property tax credits. We have added $250 back to the property tax credits.
We have lifted the ceiling on property tax credits for seniors up to over $800. We have reduced the ESL for seniors and people living in their homes. We have reduced taxes for seniors and people living in their homes. We have increased the non-refundable tax credits which also applies to seniors.
In
* (13:55)
Mr. Reimer: Unfortunately, there are a lot of seniors in this province who are earning less than $20,000 a year. The savings that are being realized by this government, that they are crowing about, is $9. Mr. Speaker, $9, two and a half cents per day, that is what they are saving. Now they are increasing the deductible on a lot of those seniors who are making less than $20,000. They are increasing by up to $72 per year.
What kind of an advantage is that for the
seniors living in
Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker,
people earning $20,000 in
Economic Initiatives
Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, the Finance Minister's own
advertisement in the newspapers on the budget claims that the
I ask the Minister of Finance: Why should
Manitobans believe this wild guess when the NDP has produced the only economy
in
Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I thought the member would at least get up and apologize for the horrendous 'Hawranomics' that we had yesterday in this House where, when after the economy grew $12 billion, he figured out in his weird and wonderful way that that was a tax increase. The economy grew $12 billion. The economy, by the external forecast, outpaced the Canadian average last year. It remains one of the most diverse economies in the country, but for the problems that were experienced in agriculture has done extremely well. The manufacturing sector will grow by 64 percent this year.
Mr. Hawranik: Mr. Speaker,
the only person who should apologize to this House is the Minister of Finance.
I refer the Minister of Finance to page
A4 of the 2006 budget papers. The minister states that in 2005 the
I ask the Minister of Finance this: Which
of his wild guesses is right? Did growth in the
Mr. Selinger: The member is astounding. If he would get his year right, he might get the number right that goes with the year.
Here are some examples of how we are
performing above the national economy. Average weekly earnings in
* (14:00)
Mr. Hawranik: Mr. Speaker, more propaganda from the Minister of Finance. Clearly, if the advertisement placed by the Finance Minister is wrong, the minister should place another ad to admit he was wrong. If the budget is wrong then all of his numbers in the budget cannot be relied upon.
I ask the Minister of Finance: Will you admit your mistake in the advertisement or will you admit your mistake in the budget? Which is it?
Mr. Selinger: You know, for a guy who makes a $9.5 billion error on the net debt and then interprets $12 billion growth as a tax increase, I cannot believe he can stand up there and keep a straight face, which he cannot. He is grinning right now.
Now, to continue with the statistics, Mr.
Speaker, retail trade grew 6.5 percent in
MIOP Loan
Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Well, Mr. Speaker, only the NDP crowd could applaud the Finance Minister who has created the largest debt in the recent history of this province. My question is for the minister who has been helping him, the Minister of Industry.
This side of the House, Mr. Speaker, has been demanding some accountability from this government on the Crocus file. Last night, I heard hundreds of Crocus shareholders worrying about some accountability, worrying about their retirement and wanting to know if there was any possibility that there would be a public inquiry to hold someone accountable for what has happened on that file.
Mr. Speaker, we heard their angst and their anger, but it is becoming increasingly evident that the taxpayer is going to be on the hook to clean up behind this government. In December, through Freedom of Information, we asked the status of Maple Leaf Distillers and their MIOP loan.
The Minister of Industry, first of all, he delayed, then he denied and then eventually it became evident that we are going to be, as taxpayers, probably on the hook for about $700,000. Will this minister explain how he got to this state on that MIOP loan?
Hon. Jim Rondeau (Minister of Industry, Economic Development and Mines): Mr. Speaker, the MIOP loans when they are conducted they have appropriate due diligence. In the past, that has happened and we will continue to do that. Under the Filmon government, in fact, under Shamray there was $7 million invested by the Province under the former government. Shamray is now involved in a $50-million fraud case.
The Tories were satisfied when the Auditor went and conducted an investigation. That was sent to the RCMP for charges and now there is a fraud case in front of the court. That was appropriate under the former government and what we followed up on is appropriate now. The only inconsistency is the members opposite who continue to flip-flop between what is appropriate behaviour, what is just and what is right.
MIOP-related Loans
Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): What is just and right is a public inquiry to know where you are wasting the money and interfering.
Mr. Speaker, it is absolutely insulting that this Minister of Industry would talk about what is appropriate when all we get out of him is a history lesson and no facts, no information, no accountability. He should be walking down there to his Premier (Mr. Doer) and turning in his resignation.
On January 26, the member of the department indicated that he was not sure how many other Crocus-related loans may have MIOP implications. Does this minister know?
Hon. Jim Rondeau (Minister of Industry, Economic Development and Mines): Mr. Speaker, the MIOP loan program as was provided, all the loans have been currently provided to the members opposite under Freedom of Information, as per their request.
What we have done under the MIOP program is focussed on developing and growing the economy. I would remind members opposite that under their MIOP program it cost or lost $39 million. Under our government, it earned $187,000. We have set up a system to manage and prudently invest. Under yours it lost $39 million. We need no lessons from the members opposite.
Public Inquiry
Mr. Cummings: Well, it is obvious this minister is not prepared to give his resignation. I would hope the Premier is seriously considering asking for it.
Mr. Speaker, the question to this minister is the simple fact that he has left a trail of inept management and financial turmoil in his department. They participated in the fraud at Crocus, and they have created a horror of inaction on the part of this minister. The Premier has created a trail of inaction, as a matter of fact, and every time he is asked for a public inquiry he passes it off.
We are now seeing the potential terrorization of the taxpayer. Mr. Speaker. When can we expect a public inquiry?
Mr. Rondeau: Mr. Speaker, the member opposite talks about fraud. If you look at the fraud, you look at CalWest, an investment that was made under the former government. It does happen time after time that there may be a case where you do the due diligence, but in the case there may be some defrauded incidences.
Last month there was a criminal trial on charges. It was for CalWest Textiles. It was defrauded under the MIOP program on three loans. The loans were made in the 1990s with $3.2 million under the former government's watch. These loans had to be written off.
There has been a court case, a fraud court case that was conducted just recently. These loans were written and signed off by Minister Stefanson and Minister Downey. The loans had due diligence, they had fraud and the appropriate action occurred. They went to the RCMP for charges and went forward without political interference.
Government Contracts
Mr. Cliff Cullen (
Mr. Speaker, we have learned that Viewpoints Research recently acquired three contracts from the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission. These three contracts amounted to over $35,000. Can the Minister responsible for the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission advise the House of the nature of these contracts? Furthermore, can he confirm or deny if any of these surveys or survey questions were political in nature?
Hon. Scott Smith (Minister charged with the administration of The Liquor Control Act): Mr. Speaker, I can inform this House that the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission is one of the best run corporations this province has ever seen. The CEO and the administrative staff at the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission do an absolutely wonderful job for this province. Year over year over year they have run that corporation with diligence, under our watch, and certainly with them they continue to grow and put money back into the provincial economy. I can tell you every single contract done through the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission is done with diligence and the proper procedures.
Mr. Cullen: Mr. Speaker, given the actions of this Doer government, Manitobans have a right to be cynical.
My supplementary question is further to Viewpoints. We have learned that Viewpoints Research has acquired a contract from Manitoba Public Insurance to a value of nearly $100,000. Can the Minister responsible for Manitoba Public Insurance advise the House of the nature of that particular contract? Furthermore, will he confirm or deny if any of those questions were political in nature?
* (14:10)
Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): Mr. Speaker, MPI follows a very strict procedure in terms of letting contracts, and contracts in the type that are described by the member opposite and that is a well-established practice. They are an excellent corporation that pays particular attention to how they deal with matters like that.
Mr. Cullen: The Auditor General
recently reported on the conflicting nature of the players in Crocus and the
number of public entities in
Can the minister responsible for Workers Compensation give us an update on the nature of this conflict? Furthermore, are any of these surveys or survey questions political in nature?
Hon. Nancy Allan (Minister charged with the administration of The Workers Compensation Act): We were in Public Accounts with the member opposite when he asked these questions of the CEO of the Workers Compensation Board. Those are the appropriate people to answer those questions, Mr. Speaker.
I would just like to remind members opposite that yesterday was International Women's Day, and we paid tribute to women in this province. I think that women should be able to run their businesses in this province regardless of who they are married to.
Public Inquiry
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (
Mr. Speaker, out of all the 250-plus people that I personally met only one said no to a public inquiry, and he might be related to the government in some way, who knows. The shareholders of our province, the people that care for our province, want a public inquiry.
Why will the Premier (Mr. Doer) not call a public inquiry?
Hon. Jim Rondeau (Minister of Industry, Economic Development and Mines): Mr. Speaker, all points that needed to be dealt with have been dealt with. The Auditor had unfettered access to all the records of Crocus. He conducted a public, 245-page report which had 120 recommendations which were public.
We have sent all legal matters to the RCMP, which is appropriate. We have sent all the cases of the Manitoba Securities Commission to the Manitoba Securities Commission for appropriate disposition. CCRA and other regulators have been sent the appropriate information. These are all public institutions that are responsible to the public. They have the professionals to react to the situation and they will conduct the investigations and proceed as they see fit without political interference.
Mr. Lamoureux: The Crocus shareholders and Manitobans do not want to hear from a government lackey on this issue, Mr. Speaker. I am looking at the Premier and I want the Premier to stand up and tell this House: What is he doing to protect the interests of the Crocus shareholders?
Those Crocus shareholders last night want a government who cares about the Crocus Fund. They want to see action and they want to get to the bottom of this, Mr. Speaker. They want to understand what the government did and did not do that caused them to lose millions of dollars. They have a right to know. My question and challenge to this Premier is to do what is right and call a public inquiry today.
Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): I would point out, Mr. Speaker, that the Government of Manitoba, when it established the Crocus Fund in 1992 and '93, made it very clear that this would be an agency similar to or an investment fund sponsored by labour under law that would be administered in a way that was outside of the decision making in government.
In fact, the prospectus states and I do not know whether the member has ever read a prospectus before, but the prospectus states: None of the security administrators or any department or agency of the government has assessed the merits of an investment in the fund. The security administrators and government make no recommendation concerning such an investment and assume no liability or obligation to any investor of the fund.
Mr. Speaker, if we had broken that law we would be before the Manitoba Securities Commission. We did not break the law. We followed the law.
Mr. Lamoureux: It is not good enough. This Premier, Mr. Speaker, is not meeting the needs of this–
An Honourable Member: It is good enough for us.
Mr. Speaker: Order.
Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, that is not good enough. The Premier is not listening to what everyone wants. You have both opposition parties, you have the independent media outlets, you have shareholders, you have Manitobans as a whole; all of them want to get the truth. They want to know what actually has taken place and the only way we are going to know that is if this Premier gathers enough courage and calls for a public inquiry.
If he wants to have an easier legislative agenda, if he wants to be able to do more things, he has to recognize that Manitobans deserve a public inquiry. There is going to be a lot of due diligence inside this Chamber because we are doing what Manitobans want. We want this Premier to call a public inquiry. When are you going to do that, Mr. Speaker, to the Premier?
Mr. Doer: We always do what is right, not what is easy, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I would point out that in 2001, we changed The Auditor General Act to allow the Auditor General, an independent officer of this Legislature, to be able to go in and investigate loans, direct and indirect grants to any company.
When Crocus challenged the right of the Auditor General to go in and look at the books, under the new power we backed up the Auditor General to let that individual go in because we believe everyone, including the government, should be held accountable and the Auditor General did so in the report, Mr. Speaker.
Government Initiatives
Ms. Kerri Irvin-Ross (
Hon. Diane McGifford
(Minister of Advanced Education and Training): Mr. Speaker, I would like to address this
question with our latest initiative announced yesterday. The Manitoba Graduate
Scholarship has risen to $135 million. It will allow us to support 65 master's
students, 45 Ph.D. students. It will keep Manitobans here, attract talented
students from elsewhere, encourage research and prepare Manitobans for a
knowledge-based economy. This is good news for all of
Public Inquiry
Mr. Leonard Derkach (Official Opposition House Leader): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Premier. The Premier of this province is the only person who can call for a public inquiry into the events of Crocus so that all Manitobans could have those many unanswered questions finally answered.
Mr. Speaker, last night the investors in Crocus were together. They are resolved to have a public inquiry into this matter and they are united. A survey was done, and, I believe, 71 percent of the people who were surveyed, indeed, asked for a public inquiry.
Now, Mr. Speaker, what is it that this Premier is hiding? Why is he stalling? Why is he not doing the right thing that is being asked of him by Manitobans, to call a public inquiry to clear the air with regard to Crocus? If he has nothing to hide, if his ministers have nothing to hide, then call the public inquiry.
* (14:20)
Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, again when you look at the 1998 Auditor General's report, the report is very consistent with Clayton Manness's statement in the House that this fund would be managed by people outside of government and not by civil servants. The Auditor General reported to this Legislature in 1998 that this fund is to be operated in an arm's-length way from the government in a similar nature as a mutual fund. We operated completely within the bounds of the law and completely consistent with the prospectus.
We, further, because of our concerns about
MIOP loans, passed a law to allow for the Auditor General to follow the money.
The old laws did not allow the Auditor General to follow the money. In fact,
the old laws of Elections Manitoba did not allow Elections Manitoba to follow
the money, or in the case of members opposite, follow the lost cheques. We have
amended those acts under Monnin, post-Monnin. We amended that legislation to
deal with post-Elections
We have also allowed the Auditor General to follow the money. That is why we have a 145-page report with a number of recommendations in the report. We also had the Auditor General before the Public Accounts Committee. For the first time ever, we had deputy ministers before the Public Accounts Committee. The Auditor General stated, and I quote: That he would expect that people would and government would respect the audited financial statements of organizations. We obviously respected the audited financial statements of Crocus, as did many other entities.
Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired.
Mr. Cris Aglugub (The Maples): Mr. Speaker, it is with a heavy heart that I
rise to inform this House about the tragic events that took place in the
A small farming village in the south of
the
Mr. Speaker, the response
from
I want to take a moment to recognize the incredible efforts made by the search teams in Guinsaugon, who worked tirelessly to aid those trapped by the landslide. I also want to commend and thank the Manitoba Filipino community for its organized response to this crisis. Above all, I ask that all members join me in a moment of reflection for all the residents of Guinsaugon who lost their lives, swept away from this world by an unstoppable tide. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker: Is it the will of the House to have a moment of silence? [Agreed]
A moment of silence was observed.
Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to ask the Premier
(Mr. Doer) of the
We know that the Auditor General has been very clear in stating that there were red flags that came into this NDP government that were ignored around this Crocus Fund. We also that the Workers Compensation Board report that was delivered by the Auditor General also said that there were red flags and concerns in that report. Specifically, the CEO of Workers Compensation Board, under a signed affidavit, stated clearly that if this Premier and his government had listened to the CEO, Pat Jacobsen of WCB, that in fact Crocus may not have happened.
We just heard the Premier talk about the Auditor General. The one thing that is very clear is the Auditor General did not have the ability to ask questions of this Premier under oath. That is a fact, Mr. Speaker.
There are 33,000 Manitobans who have been
negatively impacted, all taxpayers have been negatively impacted and venture
capital in
Mr. Speaker, this Premier has an opportunity to do the right thing. He can either keep his head in the sand, or he can do what is right for all Manitobans. What they are asking for is to call for an independent public inquiry and put to bed, finally, what went wrong and why 33,000 Manitobans and, in fact, all Manitobans are being punished because this Premier refuses to do the right thing.
Ms. Marilyn Brick (St. Norbert): Mr. Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I
recognize the 10th anniversary of the Economic Development Council for Manitoba
Bilingual Municipalities, known as CDEM. This council has dedicated its many
efforts over the past decade to expanding and strengthening the economic and
cultural life of bilingual municipalities in
Monsieur
le Président, il faut reconnaître qu'avant tout l'épanouissement actuel de nos
municipalités francophones est dû à l'engagement de centaines de bénévoles au
cours des dix dernières années. La contribution de ces bénévoles ainsi que le
travail acharné des pionniers de l'entrepreneurship francophone
ont donné d'excellents résultats. C'est grâce à eux qu'on assiste à une
renaissance et une remontée sans précédent des activités économiques dans nos
communautés bilingues.
Translation
Mr. Speaker, it is important to
recognize that above all, the current expansion of our Francophone
municipalities is due to the commitment of hundreds of volunteers over the past
10 years. The contributions of these volunteers, along with the hard work of
the pioneers of Francophone entrepreneurship, have produced excellent results.
It is thanks to them that we are seeing an unprecedented renaissance and
renewal of economic activity in our bilingual communities.
English
Created in 1996, CDEM has been a driving
force behind economic innovation and development in
Lors de
leurs célébrations, le CDEM a bien choisi comme thème Vous avez fait une différence pour reconnaître l'effort des
bénévoles et des pionniers. J'aimerais remercier ces bénévoles et pionniers qui
se sont montrés essentiels à l'essor de leurs localités. J'aimerais aussi
remercier le CDEM et le féliciter pour ses 10 ans de succès. Finalement, je
souhaite que nos municipalités bilingues connaissent encore plus de succès à
l'avenir. Merci, Monsieur le Président.
Translation
For the celebrations, the CDEM has fittingly chosen
the theme, "You made a difference," to recognize the efforts of the
volunteers and pioneers. I would like to thank these volunteers and pioneers
who have proven essential to the rapid development of their communities. I
would also like to thank the CDEM and congratulate the council on its ten years
of success. Finally, I wish our bilingual municipalities continued success in
the future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform the House
that this week is Pharmacist Awareness Week in
Pharmacist Awareness Week is designed to showcase the crucial function played by pharmacists on a day-to-day basis. Whether it is providing advice about prescriptions, over-the-counter drugs or counselling on health-related issues, Manitobans depend on their pharmacists to be knowledgeable, forthcoming and efficient, which they are, Mr. Speaker.
This week is also designed to raise awareness of the troubles faced by pharmacists in many jurisdictions. For example, Mr. Speaker, attracting and retaining pharmacists in rural areas in particular has become a growing problem. Problems such as this must be effectively addressed to ensure that pharmacists will be able to continue to provide the kind of quality care that Manitobans need and deserve.
I would ask all members of this House to join me in saluting our pharmacists, who work hard every day in all of our communities to help meet the health care needs of Manitobans. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski (St. James): Mr. Speaker, I rise today in appreciation of a fun-filled weekend recently enjoyed by many St. James residents. Our young hockey players, ages 5, 6, 7 and 8 years old demonstrated their skills and sportsmanship in front of encouraging fans, friends, family and volunteers at the 52nd annual Silver Bullet Hockey Tournament held at the Silver Heights Community Club from February 10 to 12.
The event was blessed with great weather and great activities, including a pancake breakfast, silent auction and social. Mick E. Moose of the Manitoba Moose was there to cheer on the kids and check out some up-and-coming hockey talent.
The winners of this year's tournament in the 5- to 6-year-old category were the Silver Heights Stars. Runners-up were the Assiniboia Ice Hogs. In the 7- to 8-year-old category, it was the Assiniboia Ice Hogs in first place and Sturgeon Creek in second.
As MLA for
It takes a lot of people to make an event such as this run smoothly. I wish to recognize tournament convenor Bob King for his commitment and drive in putting on this event and also coaches Tim Vandale and Ezio Franz for their leadership, Ross Miclash expertly maintained the rink ice, and volunteer Todd Jackson was ever reliable with his work on the house and grounds.
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Thanks to the efforts of so many dedicated volunteers, this year's event was a truly memorable one. The fundraising efforts were especially commendable and will make a big difference for young hockey players. A big thank-you goes out as well to the parents for showing such enthusiasm and dedication. Mr. Speaker, it is great to see communities working together to support their youth, building teamwork, friendships and lasting memories. I wish all the kids the best of luck in next year's tournament. Thank you.
(Second Day of Debate)
Mr. Speaker: Resume debate on the proposed motion of the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), that this House approve in general the budgetary policy of the government, standing in the name of the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition.
Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Thank you very much. I do want to say a few words on the record about the budget that was just introduced by this NDP government.
But, before I do, Mr. Speaker, I would think it is perhaps appropriate that I thank a few people that have allowed me to take my place here in this honoured Chamber, the Legislature, for the past five years. All members in this Legislature, I think, when having the opportunity to recognize why they are able to serve here, the first people I think that they always remember and will thank is their loved ones and their family members that allow them to do the kinds of things that every member in this Chamber does, and that is try to represent Manitoba to the best of their abilities.
So, Mr. Speaker, I certainly want to thank my wife, Ashleigh, my two daughters, Sarah and Hayley, for standing behind me and supporting me as I did what I did as a member of the Legislature; and certainly my parents, Victor and Jean, who have always seen me as a small kid from Punnichy trying to make a difference and always being proud of what I did. I know they were very proud of me in this role. So I would like to acknowledge them as well. On my wife's side, my father-in-law, and I want to be careful when I say the word "senator" because he was a Liberal senator and was a very, very honoured member I believe of that Chamber, did a tremendous job, Senator Everett and his wife, Patti. They have been very, very supportive of me in this role.
The other thing, of course, is you do not
get here unless people in your constituency support you and represent you and
allow you to represent them, Mr. Speaker. So, of course, I want to thank the
people of
Of course, I have had tremendous staff that I will be thanking personally. Without the staff, Mr. Speaker, we, again, are in situations where we need people like staff to make sure that we do our jobs properly and that we have their support on an ongoing basis, and that is something that I have been very blessed with.
Mr. Speaker, I want to turn to the budget
which I think is an important opportunity for all the members in this Chamber
to debate, to look at, to perhaps offer some differences because there are
differences in this Chamber. There is difference of approaches of how we as the
Progressive Conservative Party would approach running
In its very, very basic format, Mr. Speaker, a budget is simply an opportunity for expenses to be looked at with respect to the revenues. At the end of the day, whether you are running a business, whether you are a single parent running a household, whether you are an ag producer trying to run the best business you can, you always look at seeing what your revenues are and look at what your expenses are. At the end of it, everybody works very hard to ensure that there is some surplus, there is some profit, there is something left over at the end to invest either in their family, in their household, in their business or to try to make their lives and their families better.
It is an opportunity to examine your own fiscal house. How are you doing in your fiscal house? How are things going? Are you meeting your targets? Are you able to look and sure, Mr. Speaker, that what you are doing is the right thing, whether it is in your business or whether it is in the province?
It is also an opportunity for you to examine how it is that you are doing stacked up to how everybody else is doing. I would say that on that basis, and one thing I am not sure that this Premier (Mr. Doer) or this NDP government understand, but it is not provinces that compete. It is businesses that compete; it is the individuals that compete; it is the plumbers, it is the carpenters, it is the small entrepreneurs, it is the bigger businesses that we have. They are the ones that compete.
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What the government is responsible for is they are accountable to ensuring what kind of a climate that they are putting in place for those entrepreneurs, those businesspeople, to compete. So, in other words, the government of the day has to be accountable for the budget that they have brought in.
Now, Mr. Speaker, the question is: Where is the money being spent? What results are you getting with respect to the money that is being spent? Is the government of the day, are they ensuring that they have created that business climate, the climate that allows those entrepreneurs, those businesspeople, to go out and compete?
Well, in this last budget, the seventh
budget we have seen from this NDP Premier (Mr. Doer), he has attempted to make
Clearly, it is important to know that you cannot move ahead unless you take some risks. For example, Mr. Speaker, progress always involves risk. There is an old saying that you cannot steal second base with one foot still on first. There is a difference between the NDP self-preservation society and the Progressive Conservative Party. I want to talk about that difference because the Progressive Conservative Party, we are built on deep respect for the individual, on his or her dignity and freedom. It is the right to succeed, the right to accept responsibility. Progressive Conservatives believe that if people want to work harder, that is their choice, but they should be rewarded for that extra hard work, because we in the Progressive Conservative Party believe that when individuals succeed, then communities succeed. When communities succeed, the province succeeds.
So, Mr. Speaker, when I look at this budget–and I think it is important when you look at the budget that it was interesting that somebody said that the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. [interjection] Well, we all know who said that because the Premier just said, "I said that." When I look at the fact that over the last five of six budgets, this NDP Premier has not been able to live within his budget, I say to Manitobans, ouch, if that is what this Premier wants to base the future on, because his past behaviour has not been one of stellar performance in the province of Manitoba with respect to spending.
Mr. Speaker, when we look at this budget,
the NDP numbers, their own numbers in the budget, here is the beauty of NDP
math, unfortunately to the detriment of the taxpayers of
Mr. Speaker, we see this minister's and this Premier's ability to constantly raid the rainy day fund. Why do they do that? Not because it is raining, not because it is raining. No, they do that because, as I said, they look at revenues of 486 and they say, well, let us spend more than we are taking in. We have done it five out of six budgets already, because we have the rainy day fund. That is something that we can sneak in and we can put it in to ensure that there is a sense of balanced budgets.
I want to go from one spectrum, quoting the Premier, perhaps to another spectrum, and that is the quote that said the problems of the world we have created will not be solved at the same level of thinking we created them at. Well, Mr. Speaker, that was Albert Einstein.
What this Premier should perhaps listen to is to understand that all of the problems that they have created with budgeting, all of the issues about spending more money than they take in, clearly is not going to be solved if they continually take the same approach. I would think that Albert Einstein would be somebody that perhaps this Premier, in fact this government, should maybe pay a little bit of attention to because I think it would serve all of Manitobans well.
Mr. Speaker, I think it is fascinating
that we have just seen the Olympics take place in
Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, what we have
seen under this Premier in the last seven years is the inability to try to
lower, lower, lower expectations. I know that this Premier loved to come in and
basically say, well, okay we cannot compete with Ontario, they apparently have
too many people, and we cannot compete with
Well, Mr. Speaker, unfortunately,
Mr. Speaker, we have seen budget after
budget that the mantra of this government is very clear: spend more, get less,
spend more, get less, spend more, get less. Well, that has been changed a
little bit. Now it is spend more, get last; spend more, get last. That is the
mantra of the NDP government. It is unfortunate for all of Manitobans because
when you have last, according to the Canadian Conference Board, in health care,
it is not good for
Mr. Speaker, I know that provinces, as I
said earlier, do not compete. But, if they have the right climate and they
allow businesses and individuals to compete, then that province moves ahead.
But as I have said, we have now been passed by
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So always people say, well, so what would
you do differently? I can tell you what a Progressive Conservative government
has done and will continue to do, and that is we would have a long-term
economic strategy, a long-term strategy that would deal with a low tax
strategy. Why is that? Why would we do that? Because after-tax return rates
determine what the next investment is. That is what determines investment. It
is what the after-tax rate is. The lowering of the tax rate, therefore, makes
more proposals viable. More people want to invest, Mr. Speaker. Would it not be
interesting if more people in
Mr. Speaker, I thought that this would
have been a great opportunity, perhaps, for this Premier (Mr. Doer) to talk
about maybe a red-tape commission. We have seen it in other provinces. We know
that in this province we are a high-taxed, over-regulated province. We know
that, when business looks at
We on this side believe that if you want to grow the economy, what you have to do is you have to have an aggressive pro-growth, pro-jobs agenda. I know, having spent some time in the business community, we have some of the best and brightest minds in this community, but imagine if we had an opportunity to double the number of entrepreneurs that we have in this province, if that was a goal that we talked about on a day-by-day basis as a government, saying we know that we cannot compete but we can set the bar high; we can create the climate so that those businesspeople, those entrepreneurs, those people who live in our rural communities, they can compete and grow and be better and prosper and create jobs. That is the kind of thinking that we need in this province, Mr. Speaker, but it is unfortunate that we do not have it.
Mr. Speaker, now that we know that for seven years mediocrity and complacency reign with this NDP government, why do we not have a look at some of the actual taxes that were released in this last budget? Now, it is interesting, the business tax this Premier (Mr. Doer) talks about, talking about reducing it to 13 percent, now I am sure–and I am surprised that I did not hear a round of applause from the other side when I said that, but I think even members opposite understand that if you talk about reducing the business tax to 13 percent, not in July of '06, not in July of '07, but in July of '08 it is going to go to 13 percent, I would suspect that there very much is going to be an election and perhaps a change in government before this government even gets to the 13 percent.
Let us look at another one, small business. They are talking about small business, reducing it to 3 percent. Well, Mr. Speaker, are they going to do it in the budget as most other provinces do? When they introduce tax relief, they talk about it in that budget. Small business, are they going to reduce it in this budget? No. Well, then, they must be going to do it at the end of '06. The answer is no. When are they going to do it? In '07. So we see that they are talking about the small business tax being reduced to 3 percent in '07. The capital tax, they are talking about putting it at 0.5 percent and the payroll tax 2.15 percent.
So let us look at those four areas of
taxation that this Premier is trying to convince all Manitobans, all
entrepreneurs to get up in the morning and feel good about competing with other
provinces in
Mr. Speaker, with the capital tax, we know
that this Premier is talking about looking at it. It is currently at 0.5
percent. Well, in
Well, then, Mr. Speaker, let us get to the granddaddy of them all. By the way, we know full well that what the Premier is going to say is that we never once talked about doing anything with the payroll tax. Well, no, why would they? They brought it in. They brought in that hated payroll tax. That is the legacy of the NDP government.
Now, Mr. Speaker, when you talk about a
long-term economic strategy, one would hope that you might address at some
point down the road the hated, dreaded payroll tax. Why? Because here we are in
So, Mr. Speaker, you can see what happened at the Cabinet table. They are sitting around the Cabinet table and saying, okay, so they want us to look down the road. How far should we look down the road? Well, I am sure somebody popped up and said: Well, what about July of this year? Are you kidding me? July of '06? I do not think so. Why do we not pick something later? How about July of '07? No, let us look further down the road. How about, oh, let us see, can it not wait for '08? Yeah, July of '08. Let us do something in '08. They are not doing it because they want to make us more competitive. They are simply doing it because businesses have been saying you cannot provide a long-term economic strategy. There is no strategy, but there is a number that they have tried to pick.
Well, Mr. Speaker, this Premier has said,
you know, we are on the right track. Well, I would like to quote Will Rogers,
who said: "Even if you are on the right track, you will get run over if
you just sit there." That is exactly what is happening in the
Well, Mr. Speaker, Manitobans know that in
order to have strong economic growth, it is important that we have strong
economic growth in the
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Well, that is not good enough because we believe in our society that it is the small entrepreneurs, the small business people; they are the true heroes of a strong economy. They always create more than they get back. It is what they do. It is what they believe. They are always the men and women who own the small stores, who live down the street. I say that because my mother was a pharmacist and she owned the drug store in our community. You knew all those people who owned those stores, those mothers, those fathers who worked so hard, they are the ones who created the job here and a job there.
That is what made the community strong and that is what small business does and that is what those entrepreneurs do and that is why it is such a shame that this NDP government continually tries to keep those operators down. These are regular men and women, regular Manitobans who have big dreams, and they should be allowed to see those big dreams because those big dreams mean that our province is growing and that, indeed, we have a province that we can be proud of.
Mr. Speaker, I thought it was very
interesting that when you talk about where Manitoba is going, I mean, one of
the things that we are doing in this province under this NDP government is we
are leading at under-achieving. I thought it was very interesting one of the
comments that was made. The CEO of the Business Council made a comment and said
that tax cuts have to be financed either by increasing revenues or reducing
costs. The problem in
To think that when you put a budget
together you are sort of doing that Oliver Twist, you know, when you are
standing in the line and you are shaking a little bit, and there is the Premier
going to
I believe that the best way is to ensure
that small business has the opportunities to create those jobs, to invest in technology.
They are the people who give hope for the future. I have seen it. I have seen
it. I have lived it with my family. Members on this side of the House have seen
it as well, Mr. Speaker. When you have small business that is growing, that is
where the hope for the future is. I believe strongly, coming from a small
community, that it is small business that is best to help rebuild our
communities, both in our rural and in our urban settings. It is those people
who will help those at the bottom of the ladder begin their climb to success.
That is what the success of
Where does
I want to prove my point. This budget
alone, this Premier has admitted, adds $618 million to the long-term debt of
Some Honourable Members: Shame.
Mr. Murray: Well, Mr. Speaker, it is a shame, because before every man, woman and child puts a foot on the floor when they wake up in the morning, that man, woman and child owes $17,300 because this Premier (Mr. Doer) has allowed the debt of Manitoba to balloon to $21 million–$21 billion, I should say.
An Honourable Member: That is with a "b."
Mr. Murray: That is with a "b," and that is what is so shocking about this. Because of the $4.5 billion that has been added in the seven short years that this NDP Premier has run this province, what have we seen? Have we seen building of dams, Mr. Speaker? No. What sort of building have we seen? Well, we have seen precious little.
The only reason that the debt of Manitoba is at $21 billion is because this Premier continues to spend more than he brings in. What do you do with that? You put it into debt, and when you put it into debt, what are you doing? You are saying to your sons, your daughters, their sons, their daughters, this is your problem. We are offloading this onto you. We have no solutions. We have no ideas. We have no vision. We are basically going to fold up our tent and we are going to put $21 billion on to the next generation. Well, how do you like them apples? How do you like them apples if you want to start to grow and thrive in the province of Manitoba? What does that do for you? It does precious little and that is unfortunate because, as I have said, it was this Premier that talked about the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.
Well, Mr. Speaker, $21 billion, that is unfortunate. I think it is important for Manitobans, hardworking Manitobans who pay the highest taxes west of Québec, hardworking Manitobans to understand the $21-billion debt. That is just a huge number. It is hard for people to understand that. But that debt has to be serviced. In other words, the interest costs on that debt have to be paid. Well, what are they? How much is the interest debt on a $21-billion debt?
An Honourable Member: And rising.
Mr. Murray: And that is exactly right. It is not staying there; it is getting
bigger. But, with $21 billion, every day $3.5 million is taken out to service
the debt at $21 billion. So $3.5 million every single
Well, Mr. Speaker, I just
think that that is, again, very unfortunate for our province because there is
no question that $3.5 million a day would do a tremendous amount of good to
ensure that
Maybe, Mr. Speaker, there are seven opportunities a day when he would reach out to Manitoba companies to allow them to brand Manitoba, not a New York company who in all of their wisdom come up with this great idea of sneaking in and saying–I would just love to have been at that meeting–look, sit down, we have this great idea for Manitoba. No, we do not want to show it just yet. Everybody sit in your places, okay? I want to make sure that everybody is seated because you are going to be excited. It is going to be pretty incredible. We put a lot of time and effort into this one.
So there they are and people are saying,
okay, so I wonder what they have come up with. Well, Mr. Speaker, you flip open
the flipchart, and what is staring at you? Morty the buffalo. There is a
buffalo. So imagine how excited those people from New York were, saying they
will not believe what we are going to do to rebrand this province. We are going
to call it a buffalo province. Well, with respect, had the people from
Now, Mr. Speaker, I know that the Premier
(Mr. Doer) wants to somehow again–who is the Black Bart that we can blame in
this one? Who is the Black Bart we can blame? When things do not go right in
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Now, unfortunately, he is trying to blame
the volunteers. Well, it is unfortunate he is trying to blame the volunteers
because it is ultimately this Premier's responsibility. It comes to
accountability. If this Premier were accountable, we would not have to spend a
bunch of money trying to create an advertising program for
I know this Premier has got to, and I hope this Finance Minister (Mr. Selinger) understands because it is important. One of the reasons we are in the situation that we are is because this government does not know how to manage properly. But, Mr. Speaker, their help at this time, and we hear this Premier crowing about different rates that they get from the various organizations out of New York, but he knows, and I know he knows this, because interest rates are so low, we are very fortunate that our costs are not as high as they are.
The Premier also knows that, if those interest rates inch up a half a point or a point, where do we go? Where do we go, Mr. Speaker, because this is a government that, when they sit down and try to make up their numbers, they say, well, we have to say that we have a profit? If we are going to bring in a budget, we have to say we have a profit, so let us see. What are we talking about? Well, we have $8-billion worth of expenditures, so what would make sense in terms of a profit on $8 billion? So they come up with a number. Well, let us pick this number out of the air. What is $20 million? Oh, it is too high, $20 million is too high. Okay, what about $10 million? Well, I am not sure about that.
On an $8-billion budget, the best that they can do is talk about a $2-million to $3-million surplus. Not only do they not exceed or they do not meet it, but, Mr. Speaker, that is incredible on that size of a budget that you can only come up and talk about a $2-million to $3-million budget.
I have talked about interest rates. Interest rates being as low as they are allow this Premier to ensure that the kinds of financial statements that they put out, we are in a position that they are not as bad as they are. But, Mr. Speaker, one hiccup in the interest rates and look out. One hiccup in the interest rates and look out.
So, Mr. Speaker, we know that this
Province is taking in $2.57 billion more in new revenue since '99. Is this
Premier accountable for the spending? No, he is not, unless he wants to stand
up and say: Yes, I am the father of a $21-billion debt in the
When you talk about reliance on transfer payments, the federal government is basically giving us an increase of over 41 percent. Mr. Speaker, that is just not good enough, and we have seen, and I have said earlier that when you want to create a competitive environment on the business side, what about those hardworking Manitobans? What about their personal taxes?
Well, once again, what we see from this Premier is the fact that hardworking Manitobans–and, again, the harder that they work, as I have said our party believes, reward them for hard work. What do members opposite do? They punish them. They punish them if they want to work harder. How do they do that? They basically say: We know we are getting you on the capital tax and on the corporate tax and small business and the payroll tax, but in your personal taxes we are going to make sure that you are paying the highest taxes west of Québec. That is what they ensure.
What incentive is there for a man or a woman to get involved in business? They get you on the capital tax, the payroll tax, and, if that is not enough, Mr. Speaker, they ensure that your personal income taxes are the highest west of Québec. That is unfortunate.
It is unfortunate when we see the rainy
day fund that is there really as an insurance–I mean, it is like running a
household. You know that you have this ability, if really things go wrong, that
you have the ability to reach into those savings. We have seen a lot of people
have to do that in rural
How does this government
view the rainy day fund? Well, Mr. Speaker, it is very interesting that what
this government's history is in the rainy day fund is basically to say: Look,
what is a couple of million here, a couple of million over there, a couple of
million on this side? It does not really matter because at the end of the day
this government is going to reach into the rainy day fund, not for one or two
or three million, not for four or five or six million, they do not reach into
the rainy day fund for that, in fact, in the last two weeks this government has
reached into the rainy day fund for a total of $171 million. That is how this
government, this NDP government, runs the economy of
When you talk about accountability, look
at what is happening in health care, Mr. Speaker. I can tell you, with respect
to accountability, and it is very interesting that when asked in the House we
hear the accountability with respect to the Minister of Health (Mr. Sale). We
asked a question about health care in
So what does the Conference Board of
Canada say when they look at health care across
Well, Mr. Speaker, I find it very
fascinating that when we simply asked a question of the Minister of Health,
what is happening with respect to health care, and we made reference to the
fact that we were dead last, the Minister of Health jumped out of his seat and
said, well, you know it is hard for us to compete with Alberta and B.C. Well,
why is that? Why is it hard for them to compete with
Well, Mr. Speaker, I thought it was very
interesting that one of the major newspapers in
Well, once again we have this Premier, and I do not know if, for example, maybe he thought that the tape was not turned on, maybe he thought it was pretty good there with the Premier of New Brunswick, a Progressive Conservative premier, to sit with this editorial board and basically cozy up to that premier because, you know, it is not a bad place to be, you know an NDP premier cozying up to a Progressive Conservative premier, a young, dynamic premier out of New Brunswick who is not afraid to ensure to look at opportunities with respect to health care.
Well, this Premier, although he was
quoted, has a Minister of Health, a Minister of Health who is so ideologically
driven on this health care file that whenever we talk about innovation, somehow
it drives them nuts, it drives them crazy on the other side. Well, I do not
know why trying to help
Mr. Speaker, it clearly is not about ideology on our side. We would look at any way to innovate, any way to innovate. Innovation should be the key to health care. But we do not see it. I thought it was fascinating the other day in the Chamber when, I think it was the Minister of Health, it could have been the Premier, Hansard will show, it does not matter, but one of the two stood up and took credit for the fact that Boundary Trails was getting an MRI.
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Well, Mr. Speaker, I would hope that at some place in the sentence they could mention Mr. Johnny Buhler's name who bought it. Somewhere they could put it in. I do not know where, but somewhere in that sentence, Mr. Buhler. I know the people in Boundary Trails are happy. I know the people in Boundary Trails are ecstatic. But is it not interesting: "We" put in a new MRI in Boundary Trails? That is exactly when you talk about accountability. Accountability is having the ability to tell what is correct and to be open and honest with what it is that took place. So I just find it interesting.
I asked this Premier (Mr. Doer) today about interfacility transfer payments. That was the question that I asked, and I thought it would be important to ask that question because we are debating the budget. It is important to debate the budget. But I thought it was just as important because his Minister of Health (Mr. Sale), when referring to the interfacility ambulance transfers six months ago, that minister referred to that policy as stupid.
Well, you know, six months later in a budget where we have seen unprecedented revenues, they did nothing to deal with that issue, with what that Minister of Health called stupid. I am not sure what or who the word "stupid" was referring to. I am not sure if it was for the policy, but it came out of the mouth of the Minister of Health and a great opportunity, as we have seen with this Premier (Mr. Doer), to turn his back on rural Manitobans for seven years. Seven years he has turned his back on rural Manitobans. His Minister of Health called this policy stupid, and what happened? They did nothing on that policy.
So, Mr. Speaker, why is it that with
respect to health care, this government–yes, they talk about ambulances, but
those ambulances are forcing Manitobans out of their communities down highways
to create highway medicine. That is what this Premier has done. He has put more
ambulances in
Mr. Speaker, I know that the budget in
2006 increased the Pharmacare deductible for the fifth straight year, more
punishment for seniors in
Mr. Speaker, you have nine bucks, but, wait, there is more, not that there is more for seniors, but there is more for this government because they are going to claw back $72 on the Pharmacare deductible. That is the kind of punishment that we are seeing from this government.
Mr. Speaker, when it comes to education in
the
Mr. Speaker, you talk about accountability, where is the accountability in schools? When the Minister of Education (Mr. Bjornson), when we talked on this side of the House about bullying and the Safe Schools Charter, accountability; that Minister of Education had no clue. That is not accountability. That is not having a clue about what is right.
On the Seven Oaks School Division issue, the Seven Oaks School Division issue was brought into this House. The Minister of Education did not know anything about it. He did not know anything about it on Monday. On Tuesday, he said, Oh, you mean that school division, oh, you mean that Seven Oaks School Division, oh, you mean what was happening in that Seven Oaks School Division with Mr. O'Leary. Oh, well, now that you mention it was that Seven Oaks School Division with Mr. O'Leary, maybe I have heard something about.
Well, what kind of accountability is that,
Mr. Speaker? Where is the accountability for the Minister of Education who
knows full well, and this Premier knows, that they continually underfund
education in the
Well, Mr. Speaker, I say, shame on this
Premier, shame on that Minister of Education. That is not leadership and that
is not being accountable to the taxpayers of
Mr. Speaker, in Advanced Education and
Training, where is the accountability with this Premier? They all have all our
institutions, our colleges and our universities suffering under this NDP
government. All they are saying is, we want to ensure that we can provide
Well, Mr. Speaker, that is not what Manitoban students deserve. They deserve a gold standard of education, but this government underfunds the institutions. So what do they have to do? Once again, much like this Minister of Education that forces school trustees to make tough decisions, the Minister of Advanced Education (Ms. McGifford) and this Premier are saying to the universities: Look, you want to raise ancillary fees because you have to pay for that, raise the cost of books, the cost of parking. You want to raise all those fees? You go ahead because we are not going to fund you properly. You go ahead and you raise all of those other ancillary fees. So, when the president of the Brandon Students' Union says, well, this is worse than we expected under this NDP government, you have to know that that means something.
Mr. Speaker, that is a lack of accountability, and that is unfortunate when you have a Minister of Advanced Education and a Premier that underfund our post-secondary institutions. I am not sure if they understand it or they just want to ignore it, but the tuition freeze is a problem.
* (15:30)
Everybody knows that universities and colleges lack financial support. They lack the financial support they need to provide that gold standard of education. We lack the resources to put into those institutions to provide our knowledge economy for our leading the 21st century.
The real task is to ensure that students who rely on government funding are not left financially crippled when they graduate. That should be the real reason that we should be looking at how to ensure that students, when they graduate from university are not suffering from a huge debt load. A possible solution would be to allow students upon graduation to repay the debt at a percentage of their income. I mean, there has to be some things that we can look at, some things that we can look at and be innovative. Even the Business Council, the Premier knows that the Business Council has said: Look, there are opportunities with businesses and corporations to work with the government to enhance bursaries and scholarships. So there are ways to do it for our universities who are asking, pleading, with this Premier (Mr. Doer) to ensure that they can deliver a gold standard of education. That is something that this NDP government just does not seem to get.
You know, Mr. Speaker, on justice, justice is a very, very serious issue and, frankly, I think that the Minister of Justice (Mr. Mackintosh), and I am still waiting for him to–
An Honourable Member: Minister of injustice.
Mr. Murray: Well, it is the minister of
injustice except he is the Minister of Justice when he takes a program that
this party, this side of the House, put together, a program that we put
together, talking about Enough is Enough!
Standing Up for Safe Communities. Why did we do it? We did it because
Manitobans were telling us they did not feel safe in their communities under
this NDP government. But why would they? What does the record show? The record
states that the Hells Angels moved into
That is where it all started. That is
where all of the gang activity started to take shape, and that is why we see in
the
Mr. Speaker, when we talk about safety, by
the way, it was interesting. We talk about safety in the streets. You know, the
$3.5 million a day that we are spending on the interest rates to cover off the
$21-billion debt, with that $3.5 million a day, we could put 40 new police
officers every single day on the streets of Manitoba, every single day, but
that $3.5 million is being ripped away and is being put towards that granddaddy
of a debt, the mother of all debts for Manitoba, the $21 billion. So that is a
serious issue in terms of
I thought it was somewhat interesting in
the budget when the budget document talked about Hydro. Mr. Speaker, I think
that this government has made some very interesting decisions with respect to
Hydro. First and foremost, the NDP government decided that Hydro is making a
little bit too much money, so, when this Premier (Mr. Doer) says that
So, you know, they raided Manitoba Hydro
because they could not control their own spending, and what have we seen since?
We have seen decisions where Manitoba Hydro, they wanted to build a route by
Bipole III. Bipole III was something that Manitoba Hydro talked about years
ago, and they wanted to build that from the North. They were going to build it
down the east side of
I respect the fact that there are
communities that will be affected if a line were to come down the east side.
Those communities have to be part of a decision that works for them. So that is
what is important is that those communities have a role. What I find
fascinating is that this Premier seems to be taking his advice from Bobby
Kennedy, Jr. One thing I do know, one thing I do know, Mr. Speaker, is that it
is not Bobby Kennedy, Jr., that owns the east side of
Mr. Speaker, I would say that anytime that you have experts making comments–
An Honourable Member: I am glad you are putting this on the record.
Mr. Murray: Absolutely, I am putting it on the record. I have no difficulty. All I am saying, simply, is that I would not be governed simply on the basis that it is my way or the highway. Speaking of the highway, it would not be bad to have a road up there to connect some of those communities, some of those communities that are suffering because of their isolation. I think that is an important discussion to have. But it is all part of the debate, is it not, Mr. Premier? Is it not all part of the debate? It should be put into the mix. Maybe at the end of the day, all of the rules would say no. You would want to look at the other side. But there is no debate. There is simply Bobby Kennedy, Jr., coming up and trying to say to this Premier. I do not know if it is the Green Party that is starting to sneak up on the side, so they want to make comments. I am not sure, but one thing I do know is that there has been precious little debate with the public on why it is that this NDP government is so opposed to running a line down the east side.
I do not know and I would be interested to see. I know there is discussion around Wuskwatim. We have heard lots of numbers years ago about what it might cost for Wuskwatim and Conawapa. But the point is, I think all of us in this Legislature, all of us in the province, understand that building costs are not going down. Building costs are not getting less. No, they are going the other way. They are going up and up and up. So what is the true cost of building Wuskwatim? What is the true cost of building Conawapa? What are those numbers? It would be very interesting to find out from this First Minister what those costs are.
Well, Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of other issues that we see in this budget. For example, we know that the MLCC are talking about an increase of $9-million projected revenue over last year. I hope they are not doing it on the basis of trying to promote poor people to drink. I do not think that is the right thing to do; I really do not think it is the right thing to do. I would hope that there are opportunities that this Premier would use MLCC in the right possible way, not in asking more people to drink.
On MPI we have seen transfers of almost $100 million more to the Province. They have collected on drivers' licensing annual fees, $100 million. Do you think that they would turn around and try to put that into fixing roads, Mr. Speaker? No way. No way, José. Why? Because they need every penny they can get. They need every penny because they cannot control their expenditures. Every opportunity to get more money out of Manitobans, to bilk Manitobans out of more money, that is what this government does.
Mr. Speaker, with respect to Culture,
Heritage and Tourism, I would just make one comment. We do have a fabulous
province. We have a wonderful province and tourists should be flocking here.
Manitobans should be using as much opportunity to experience this fabulous
province as we can. But can you imagine, can you imagine those American
tourists? You know, they get the brochure. They figure, well, we are going to
load up the family. Let us put them in the station wagon and we are going to
head up north. We are going to do a little bit of fishing. We heard the fishing
is pretty good in
* (15:40)
So there they are and they get to the
border at 75. Some of them would probably look at it and say, have we entered
some kind of an exhibition of some sort? Is this like a test zone to see if our
vehicles can actually be punished so much? Maybe we went on the wrong road. I
suspect we made a wrong turn because there is no way, the roads we just came
off were pretty doggone smooth. As a matter of fact, that little Bobblehead
doll was not moving a second. I mean, I would hope that when they send out all
of the tourist information to all of these tourists that come in, maybe what
they want to give them is where the local garages are. Maybe that is their idea
for development in
I would have thought that after seven long
years this NDP Premier (Mr. Doer) would have said, when you are looking at the
budget, let us make sure that 75 is fixed right now, today. Let us get on with
fixing Highway 75 today. Why, Mr. Speaker? Well, if we are going to export our
goods south of the border, I would hope that at least they arrive south of the
border in the same shape that they left the warehouse. But, if they have to
travel on those sorts of roads, what message does that send to the business
community? Ah, you make your goods; do the best you can; make your widgets;
away you go. When you put them in the truck, you do have air ride, right? Do
you have air ride on that unit? I hope you do because, man, when you hit the
highways in
But, Mr. Speaker, if the Premier
understood the strong desire to have an economic plan in
Mr. Speaker, I want to talk a little bit
about agriculture and rural
I would say to the Premier (Mr. Doer), and I
really would like the Premier to hear my comments. The Premier has missed red
flags when it came to Crocus. The Premier has missed red flags when it came to
the Workers Compensation Board. Premier, I ask you, do not miss the red flags
of what is happening to our families in rural
Mr. Speaker, our ag producers have been hit hard. They have been hit hard. Their input costs are high. Commodity prices are low and the income for our producers is at an all-time low. So where is the strategy, where is the vision from this government to deal with rural Manitoba? Well, there is not one. There is not one. There is zero. That is why when I said earlier, are there differences between that side and our side? You bet there are. You bet there are huge differences.
Mr. Speaker, our party believes in rejuvenation, restoring, revitalization; that is what we believe. That is what we believe about rural Manitoba. It is important that we do that in rural Manitoba. There has got to be a strategy. What they are looking at on that side of the House is turning their backs on rural Manitobans. We will not do that. The Premier has made fun of rural Manitobans for supporting our party. Well, they support our party simply because we are rural Manitobans in our caucus. We understand what rural Manitobans are going through. We understand the importance of celebrating those people in rural Manitoba.
What about an opportunity to focus on the labour market? We have got great immigration in the province of Manitoba, great immigration. It is something that was started by our party. You have continued it on, and I applaud you. It is great. Immigration is important to the province of Manitoba. But is there a way that we can somehow work with our immigration to see that they can understand the importance and the opportunities in rural Manitoba, because the life in rural Manitoba is a great life? It is a wonderful life. That is an opportunity that we should be looking at.
Opportunities for youth. We need to know that opportunities for youth exist in rural Manitoba because when those people, those men and women go to community colleges they want to go back from where they came from. They want to go back and celebrate where they came. They want to go back and celebrate their home town because they understand the importance of it.
What about being self-employed in rural
I thought it was very interesting, when I
have been asked questions about what was in the budget on agriculture. Well,
the fact of life is there was nothing in the budget on agriculture. There were
some re-announcements from old announcements, but there was nothing in the
budget on agriculture. Since the BSE crisis has come to Manitoba and Canada, I
find it somewhat distraught, being distraught. Why am I distraught, Mr.
Speaker? Since the BSE crisis and all of the press releases and all of the
political rhetoric and all of the announcements from the other side, slaughter
capacity in
Mr. Speaker, with respect to the city of
I know that this Premier (Mr. Doer) likes to talk about revenue growth. Well, the revenue growth that they talk about is driven from casinos, more gambling, more gaming. That is not growth. There is not an entrepreneur that would look at that and say that is growth. That is not growth; it is the opposite. It is not growth. Growth is when small businesses create jobs and those people pay a fair tax level to the people of Manitoba. That is what growth is, Mr. Speaker.
* (15:50)
I want to quote, and I am so proud to quote my father, my dad, Victor Murray. I am going to quote something that he always said to me. He always said when we were on the farm, whenever there was an issue we had to deal with, our dad always said to me that, when solving problems, son, he said, you have to dig at the roots instead of just hacking at the leaves.
Well, Mr. Speaker, the reason that I bring
that forward is because that is what this government had an opportunity to do
with this budget, with all of the overspending, with all of the inability to
manage the economy, with all of their ability, unfortunately, to add to the
debt to make it $21 billion. There was a tremendous opportunity for this
government to dig to the root of their spending problem and deal with making
So I would say that as I have travelled
around this province, I have asked questions of many Manitobans. I say to them
very succinctly, you know, if there was one thing that you could do to change
Mr. Speaker, the PC
Party, of which I have had the privilege to lead, has made a difference. A PC
government that wins the next election will continue to make that kind of
difference in the
Mr. Speaker, I would say that what we ultimately need in this province in a big way, which we are not getting under this NDP government, is a government that knows how to deliver a gold standard level of service. Much like I referenced those Olympic athletes that worked hard, trained hard, made mistakes along the way, learned from those mistakes, got better, and stood proudly on the podium as the Canadian anthem was played to all of the world, those are the kind of standards that this government should be trying to set. Unfortunately, it is mediocrity, mediocrity, mediocrity.
So the question is: Do we have a proud past? Well, yes, we do on this side of the House, we have a proud past. I will compare that perhaps to the member opposite, the Premier of the province. Our proud past is the establishment of Manitoba's first agriculture college, Manitoba's first technical college, the incorporation of the University of Manitoba, crop insurance, farm credit, services for the deaf, the Nelson River hydro development, student loans, under the Progressive Conservative government, low-cost rental housing, started by our government, social allowance, medical insurance, the Winnipeg Floodway, income assistance, those are all legacies by a Progressive Conservative government.
Well, Mr. Speaker, surely then there has to be a legacy from members opposite. Well, they have a legacy, MTX, ManOil, Saunders Aircraft, the Autopac scandal, that is all part of the NDP legacy. I know members opposite love to rush out and talk to the public and say that they were there first on medicare or they were there first on helping students or they were there first on helping the deaf or they were there first with low income assistance. Well, they are wrong, wrong, wrong. It was the Progressive Conservative Party and the Progressive Conservative government that put those in place for all Manitobans, and that is why we have the kind of province today that we have.
So I want all Manitobans to know, and I
started my speech out on the budget, because I was talking about
accountability. I was talking about accountability and I was talking about
what is the accountability that this Premier has to the
Well, Mr. Speaker, I just think I heard the Premier say he is accountable to the people. Well, if he is, then surely the right thing to do would be for this Premier to listen to members of the public, members of the public who have said very clearly to all members of the opposition that they want an independent public inquiry into this Crocus, Workers Compensation scandal.
Members of the public have said it, Mr. Speaker. The media have said very clearly that this Premier owes the opportunity to come clean with what happened with the Crocus scandal and Workers Compensation Board.
An Honourable Member: Ed Schreyer.
Mr. Murray: The Premier's mentor, Ed Schreyer, has said that the right thing to do would be to have an independent public inquiry. A former minister of this NDP government, a former minister of this NDP government said she would welcome an independent public inquiry.
So let me just pause for a second, Mr.
Speaker. We have the public, we have the media, we have Mr. Schreyer, we have a
former minister, Ms. Mihychuk, we have all the opposition parties that are
asking for an independent public inquiry. The only person in
Mr. Speaker, the reason it is a shame is
because under this Premier's watch there is such a black eye on venture capital
in the
Why do we not do the right thing and clear the air? This Premier has an opportunity to do the right thing, or he can continue on an ostrich, head-in-the-sand approach and deny Manitobans, deny everybody that wants the right thing and that is an independent public inquiry.
So I say to this Premier, it is a serious
issue and I know he knows that. I know he knows the seriousness of it. So I
would ask this Premier, unless the Premier has something to hide, and I hope he
does not, Mr. Speaker. But I would say that people would be wondering, and
people have said to me that if the Premier does not have anything to hide he
should call it. That would be the best way to clear the air, to move
Mr. Speaker, I want the Premier to know that I would support him tremendously if he did the right thing and called an inquiry because call anybody you want, I know the Minister of Hydro mentions names, I think the great thing is, and I hope you agree, I sense you are agreeing with me and I appreciate that because, you know, there is not a person that should not be called.
The great thing about having an independent public inquiry is there is never a question. I mean, the Auditor General did tremendous work. The Auditor General did tremendous work in terms of both the Crocus and with Workers Compensation Board. I mean, we saw with Workers Compensation where we had a highly respected CEO, Pat Jacobsen, come forward with some very serious allegations to this government. What did the government do, Mr. Speaker, to listen to a highly respected CEO, a woman of tremendous credibility, what did they do to her? Within three days of her bringing these allegations forward, they ran her out of town. They fired and they ran her out of town.
Well, Mr. Speaker, that in itself has a cloud around it, and Manitobans are wondering, why is it that somebody who is a very talented woman, why would they run her out of town, and why under a signed affidavit would she say very clearly–what she is saying, I believe that if the government of the day had listened to my concerns–[interjection]–if they had listened to Pat Jacobsen's concerns, she is saying in a signed affidavit that Crocus would not have happened. Thirty-three thousand Manitobans would not have been bilked out of their cash. Manitobans would not have this black eye over their venture capital economy. That is why we need to have a public independent inquiry.
* (16:00)
So, Mr. Speaker, I want to conclude by
saying to this Premier that this is a tremendous opportunity for you, Mr.
Premier, to ensure that Manitoba does have the kind of economy that we could
all be proud of, the kind of economy that would be robust and that would grow
and that would say to all of those entrepreneurs, come on down, come on down to
Manitoba. We are open. You want to take risks in
So, with those few comments, Mr. Speaker, with those few comments, I would like to move a motion. I move, seconded by the Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Hawranik):
THAT the Motion be amended by deleting all the words after "House" and substituting the following words:
therefore regrets this budget ignores the present and future needs of Manitobans by:
(a) failing to be accountable to Manitobans for the overspending and fiscal mismanagement of this Doer NDP government; and
(b) failing to be accountable for the fact that
(c) failing to provide a long-term strategy to bolster
(d) failing to be accountable for the dismal state of agriculture in Manitoba and the lack of sufficient slaughter capacity in the province and to provide a sustainable plan for the growth of agriculture and the rural economy; and
(e) failing to provide a climate that encourages private-sector job
creation and growth in the province, to provide opportunity for
(f) failing to accept responsibility and be accountable for the province's unprecedented level of debt, which has grown to over $20 billion under the Doer NDP government, thereby mortgaging our children's and our grandchildren's future; and
(g) failing to eliminate education taxes off residential property and farmland; and
(h) failing to provide adequate funding for post-secondary institutions; and
(i) failing to be accountable for the dead last ranking of Manitoba's health care system by the Conference Board of Canada; and
(j) failing to be transparent and accountable for where health care dollars are being spent; and
(k) failing to be accountable for the increased court backlog and probation breaches; and
(l) failing to provide a long-term strategy for the revitalization
of rural
(m) failing to be accountable for drawing money from the "rainy day fund" in times of unprecedented revenues.
As a
consequence, the Government has thereby lost the confidence of this House and
the people of
Motion presented.
Mr. Speaker: The motion is in order, and before I recognize any members to speak, I want to remind all members of the House that in their speech or questions all members are to be addressed by their constituencies or ministers by their titles, and also, when quoting from written material, that is also to be addressed by constituencies or ministers by their title. I just want to remind all honourable members.
We have a rotation in order, so I will recognize the honourable–[interjection]
Are you on a point of order?
An Honourable Member: Yes.
Mr. Speaker: Okay. I will recognize a point of order first.
Point of Order
Mr. Speaker: The honourable Official Opposition Government House Leader, on a point of order.
Mr. Leonard Derkach (Official Opposition House
Leader): Yes. I move, seconded by the Member for Ste.
Rose (Mr. Cummings), that the honourable Member for
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Mr. Speaker: Order. The rules do not allow for moving of a motion on a point of order. That is not within our rules.
An Honourable Member: Mr. Speaker, I indicated I was standing on a motion.
Mr. Speaker: For clarification of the House, I asked the member if he was up on a point of order, and he indicated that you were up on a point of order.
An Honourable Member: I said a motion.
Mr. Speaker: Are you up on a point of order?
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Mr. Speaker: Order. Everybody will have a chance here.
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable Deputy Government House Leader, are you up on a point of order?
Hon. Steve Ashton (Deputy Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, I was standing to speak on the budget.
Mr. Speaker: Okay. Well, I will entertain–[interjection]
The honourable Member for
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (
Point of Order
Mr. Speaker: The
honourable Member for
Mr. Lamoureux: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I was
watching actually very closely, and I first note that the moment that you had
dealt with the motion, the Member for
* (16:10)
Mr. Speaker: The honourable Deputy Government House Leader, on the same point of order.
Mr. Ashton: On the same point of order, Mr. Speaker, I am really surprised the Member for Inkster would rise on that so-called point of order because it is well-established practice in this House which has been confirmed, whether it be Question Period or in terms of speeches, that we have a speaking rotation, and, in fact, it is of particular interest, I think, to independent members such as the Member for Inkster and the Member for River Heights to have that ability protected. We have never, in the time I have been in the House, to my knowledge, in recent parliamentary history in terms of this province, done anything other than have a rotation which allows all members of the House to speak.
The Leader of the Opposition spoke for a
considerable period of time. I actually wanted to get up and wish him well in
his future. Speak on the budget, Mr. Speaker, I hope to have the ability to
speak, and I can assure the Member for
Mr. Speaker: The honourable Official Opposition House Leader, on the same point of order.
Mr. Derkach: Yes, on the same point of order, Mr. Speaker. It is within the rules of Marleau and Montpetit that, indeed, it is allowable to allow for a motion where the order could be changed in terms of the speaking order of the House, and that requires a motion. When more than one person is standing and a motion is introduced allowing for another person to be heard, according to the rules, Beauchesne and also Marleau and Montpetit that we do follow, indeed, that is within the purview of these rules, so I move the motion on that basis.
Now, the Liberal House Leader has indicated that he has a point of order with respect to that, and I happen to agree with him. Now, Mr. Speaker, I think all members would like to speak, but the government has now gotten the message, perhaps, and, perhaps they are a little slow and have not yet, that, in order to be able to proceed with orderly business in the House, one of the prerequisites today is that they call the public inquiry into the Crocus scandal. The air could be cleared very easily, but until this government decides that it should do the right thing, the thing that is demanded by Manitobans, the action that is demanded by the opposition parties, the action that is demanded by the media, and that is to call for a public inquiry into Crocus. We will use the rules of the House to ensure that the message is delivered clearly.
Mr. Speaker: On the point
of order raised by the honourable Member for
It is very clear here, if you look under Rules, Orders and Forms of Proceedings of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, if you look at "General rule on rotation" 43(5), "When a Member speaks in a debate, the Speaker must not recognize another Member from the same party to speak until an opportunity has been provided for a Member from another party who is standing in his or her place . . ." Our rotation has always been opposition, government, opposition, government, so under our rules I have to rule there is no point of order, and I recognize the honourable Minister of Water Stewardship (Mr. Ashton) to speak at his turn.
An Honourable Member: I would challenge your ruling.
Mr. Speaker: Order. The ruling of the Chair has been challenged.
Does the honourable member have support?
Some Honourable Members: Agreed.
Some Honourable Members: No.
Voice Vote
Mr. Speaker: All those in favour of sustaining the ruling of the Chair, say yea.
Some Honourable Members: Yea.
Mr. Speaker: All those opposed to the sustaining the ruling of the Chair, say nay.
Some Honourable Members: Nay.
Mr. Speaker: In my opinion, the Yeas have it.
Formal Vote
Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, a recorded vote, please.
Mr. Speaker: A recorded vote having been requested, call in the members.
Order. The question before the House is shall the ruling of the Chair be sustained.
Division
A RECORDED VOTE was taken, the result being as follows:
Yeas
Allan, Altemeyer, Ashton, Bjornson, Brick, Chomiak, Dewar, Doer, Irvin-Ross, Jennissen, Jha, Korzeniowski, Lathlin, Lemieux, Mackintosh, Maloway, Martindale, McGifford, Melnick, Nevakshonoff, Reid, Robinson, Rondeau, Sale, Santos, Schellenberg, Selinger, Smith, Struthers, Swan, Wowchuk.
Nays
Cullen, Cummings, Derkach, Driedger, Dyck, Eichler, Faurschou,
Gerrard, Goertzen, Hawranik, Lamoureux, Maguire, McFadyen, Mitchelson, Murray,
Reimer, Stefanson, Taillieu.
Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): Yeas 31, Nays 18.
Mr. Speaker: The ruling of the Chair has been sustained.
* * *
Mr. Speaker: The hour being past, oh, we will have to have leave of the House.
Is there leave of the House for the Speaker not to see the clock? [Agreed]
Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): I would just like to announce that the Standing Committee of Public Accounts will meet on Wednesday, March 15, at 7 p.m., to deal with the Auditor's Report on the examination of the Crocus Investment Fund.
Mr. Speaker: It has been announced that the Standing Committee of Public Accounts will meet on Wednesday, March 15, 2006, at 7 p.m., to deal with the Auditor's Report on examination of the Crocus Investment Fund.
The hour being past 5 p.m., this House is adjourned and stands adjourned until 10 a.m. tomorrow (Friday).