LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF
Tuesday,
November 6, 2007
The House met at 10 a.m.
PRAYER
ORDERS OF THE DAY
Bill
209–The Historic
Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, I take great pleasure in introducing this bill. I move, seconded by the Member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar), that Bill 209, The Historic Trans-Canada Highway Act, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House.
Motion presented.
Mr. Hawranik: This bill is an important bill, an important private member's bill, which, of course, hopefully, is going to be moved to a committee before the end of the week. It's important in the sense that it recognizes the historical significance of Provincial Trunk Highway 44 as it exists today, and it also recognizes the heritage of the area and the district within which Highway 44 travels.
Mr. Speaker,
Canadians have always been a nation of trails and trail builders, and
Aboriginal people used waterways and woodland trails for their trade and travel
as they came from eastern
I'm proud to say, Mr. Speaker, that Highway 44, as it exists today, the
historic
But before that, Mr. Speaker, Highway 44 that was known as the No. 1 Highway was part of that route and became a significant part of the heritage of our community because it meant that people, as they travelled west to settle parts west in Manitoba or to Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia, they passed, in fact, through that particular route and through the region, of course most of it through the constituency of Lac du Bonnet.
It formed a key link in the movement of people and goods across
Mr. Speaker, it's important to recognize Provincial Trunk Highway 44 as having historical significance because what it does is it will encourage tourists and other individuals who come through the area whether they're travelling as tourists or whether they're moving goods from eastern Canada through to western Canada, it encourages travellers to venture off the existing Provincial Trunk Highway No. 1, the Trans-Canada Highway as it exists today, and into our communities.
Not only are communities along that route, such as Beausejour,
Rennie, Whitemouth, Seddons
Corner, Siegs Corner, certainly into the Lockport
areas, but also it forms a vital link, I think, into La Vérendrye Trail which really starts near the community of Rennie and proceeds through the Whiteshell
Provincial Park and then onward down Provincial Trunk Highway No. 11 and
through the communities of Lac du Bonnet, Powerview, Pine Falls and through Sagkeeng
and through the beaches area. So it's an important link to bring people off of
the existing
Our visitors,
Mr. Speaker, deserve to know about the history that surrounds them whenever
they travel through
There's adequate
reason for designating the existing Provincial Trunk Highway 44, giving it
special significance, Mr. Speaker. Whitemouth and Rennie
and
* (10:10)
During the
Depression, reliefers were employed to complete the
highway, so by 1936 it went through Whitemouth and it was surfaced with asphalt
at the time. The rest of the
In 1956 that particular section of road, the new Trans-Canada Highway, was
completed to the south of 44, At that time, the old highway became Provincial
Trunk Highway No. 4 at that point, and it was renumbered in 1968 as Provincial
Trunk Highway 44. It served as part of
I've provided much evidence to the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr. Lemieux), and, to his credit, he always looked at that information that I provided to him in terms of trying to link Provincial Trunk Highway 44 to the historical significance of the area. To his credit, I'm very pleased that the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation–and the Member for Selkirk is seconding this motion, Mr. Speaker, and I look forward to hearing from, perhaps, community members at committee. Thank you.
Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to speak to this bill, and I want to thank the Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Hawranik) for bringing forward this act and allowing me to second it. He talked about the significance of this legislation, but this is also, I think, a significant day in this Chamber.
I want to remind all MLAs of the history of private members' hour. It wasn't that long ago that private members' hour consisted of only two hours, and it was our government, our leader, that recognized that we're underutilizing the talents of private members in this Chamber and we doubled it. I sat on the Rules Committee. I know the Member for Russell (Mr. Derkach) was on there and our House leader was on that committee, and it was decided that it's an opportunity for members to bring forward legislation. As opposition members, they have done so. In the Order Paper, we see they have brought forward 20 or so bills and important resolutions, and, as I said, this Premier (Mr. Doer) has supported that change and has been unfairly criticized, I might add, as being anti-democratic, anti-opposition, by certain members in this Chamber.
I reference a member that sits behind me, Mr. Speaker, the Member for
I want to remind members in the opposition that there was a time when the NDP was in opposition, and I sat on the opposition benches for nine years, Mr. Speaker, nine years, and I can't recall them passing a single bill. They did not pass a single bill in nine years and here we are passing two opposition bills in one day.
So, Mr. Speaker–[interjection] One member said we're too nice, but, you know, we see the benefit of well-thought-out legislation, worthy legislation like this and we are prepared to support it. I better be careful. I'm going to talk my colleagues out of supporting this bill.
I do want to commend the member. As he said, it's always important that we, as
a government, take time to recognize important historical things in our
province, Mr. Speaker. This, of course, is an important highway. As the member
mentioned in his comments, and I thank him for giving his historical
perspective on this road, it does, as he said, run all the way from
I might also add just last week our government opened the bridge on Highway 59 over 44, which we rebuilt, Mr. Speaker. I want to applaud the highways minister, this one and his predecessors, for realizing that a bridge needed to be repaired and we've done so.
Mr. Speaker, as I said, it's important that we recognize this road and other
roads. Recently, our government renamed Highway No. 8 Veterans Memorial
Highway. This being, of course, Remembrance week, it's important that we
recognize the contributions of our veterans, and that was an action taken by
our government to do so. The member has mentioned that he has received support
from all the different R.M.s that this road goes
through all the way from
I guess there's
one issue, of course, actually, regrettably, we can't name it historical
So, Mr. Speaker, with those comments, I look forward to unanimous passage of this legislation and this bill moving into committee stage. Thank you very much.
Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation): It is a pleasure today to speak on this particular bill. What I would like to add to this is just that I would like to second, primarily, what the MLA for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar) stated and also the MLA for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Hawranik). This stretch of highway is important for tourism and for trade in the Whiteshell and on the eastern side of the province.
The naming of this particular route is important because now it will show the significance that it will have for the region. What I really wanted to state is just to follow up on what the MLA for Selkirk stated. Often people see political parties in this Chamber going at it very aggressively no matter what the issue is. I think it's important to remember that the people that have elected us to this Chamber elected us to represent them but also to have a degree of decorum when we're doing it, to show respect to one another and to those citizens that elected the individuals to this Chamber. There are occasions where we work together on some bills, and this is a perfect example of one.
As the member for Selkirk stated, there is another bill that we are working on
as a government, a private member's bill to pass as well. I think it's
important just to highlight and put an exclamation point on this,
that we do work together, and it's important also for citizens of the
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As was stated, as well, initially this bill came in as an historic Trans-Canada Highway, which, through research and help from the MLA for Lac du Bonnet–and I want to acknowledge that he heard from his citizens and from the local governments in his area how important it was to rename this stretch of highway. I want to give him full credit, as well as the MLA for Selkirk, for bringing this to my attention and wanting to pursue this. I want to thank him personally for that. The citizens of Lac du Bonnet should know that both he–and also the citizens of the constituency of Selkirk know that the MLA for Selkirk also contributed to this.
So it's a case where different political parties, yes, but MLAs are working for the benefit of their citizens, and I'm sure that we will soon see increased traffic by virtue of the renaming of this highway. Once the legislation's passed and once the naming committee, which all these new highway names go through, once that's done, we'll be able to have a design of a highway sign that we'll be able to put a number of signs along this stretch of highway and, hopefully, hopefully, this will increase the traffic, tourism traffic and other traffic. People will want to take a turn to the north and will be able to explore the beautiful communities that are along this route and eventually get back on to the Trans-Canada, if they wish, but certainly take this route and be able to see those beautiful communities that are in the Whiteshell in this particular region.
I have to tell you that Highway 1, we've repaved this year. Also, as was mentioned by the MLA for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar), millions of dollars have been spent to redo the overpass over Highway 59 on No. 44. So the government, not only is it important to rename this particular section of highway, but also the dollars that we've already put into fixing up that particular stretch of highway and also other arteries that lead off of this particular road.
So, Mr. Speaker, I certainly don't want to belabour my comments too much, but I just want to say again, thank you, to the MLA for Selkirk and the MLA for Lac du Bonnet for bringing this to my attention. Once this bill is renamed, then we'll proceed with the naming committee, and that's the process, and the naming committee will look at it.
If I might just add and digress slightly, is that also this government was the one who brought forward the Veterans Memorial Highway, as well, and renamed a number of other highways to respect our veterans that lost their lives and many who fought for us, of course, in the First World War and Second World War. We're indeed proud of that, as well as being very, very proud of the fact that we're going to be renaming this particular stretch of highway.
So, with that, Mr. Speaker, I just want to say that I certainly add my name to one who supports this particular bill with regard to renaming this stretch of highway and I look forward to it passing unanimously. Thank you very much.
Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (
I know, for years now, the Liberal Party has talked about the whole significance of that historic site. In fact, I could go back to the days of Sharon Carstairs and being out in that Beausejour area when I first found out that there was some history to No. 44 that went far beyond a highway and where Winnipeg was initially supposed to be built, or the capital, the impact that CP had, and so forth.
So, you know, it's nice to see that the Member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Hawranik) has taken the initiative to bring it to the next step. I think that there's a lot to be learned by doing this renaming and, in general, just stand up to acknowledge our support of a good bill that's worthy of passage. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question?
Some Honourable Members: Question.
Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is second reading, Bill 209, The Historic Trans-Canada Highway Act.
Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed]
Bill 214, The Public Schools Amendment Act (Property Development), are we dealing with that this morning?
An Honourable Member: No.
Mr. Speaker: No. Okay.
Bill 216, The Municipal Water System Phosphorus Control Act, are we dealing with that?
Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I think if you canvass the House, there would be leave to move to The Apology Act at this juncture, and I believe there would also be agreement to replace the MLA for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) as seconder with the MLA for Seine River (Ms. Oswald).
PUBLIC BILLS
Bill 202–The Apology Act
Mr. Speaker: Is there agreement in the House to move to Bill 202, The Apology Act, and to change the seconder to the honourable Minister for Healthy Living?
An Honourable Member: Health.
Mr. Speaker: I mean for Health. Sorry about that. One of those flashbacks again. But,
anyway, to change it from
So it will read that Bill 202 was
moved by the honourable Member for
The honourable Minister of Health.
Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Health): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and thank you for–
Mr. Speaker: Order. For the honourable Member for Minto, is it standing in his name or you wish not to speak?
An Honourable Member: Not to speak.
Mr. Speaker: Okay. So, it's not standing in the name of the honourable Member for Minto, so we'll move on to the Minister of Health.
Ms. Oswald: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for dealing with those procedural matters and allowing us to speak to the private member's Bill 202 today. We certainly have always indicated to members opposite and to the House that we agree with the principle enshrined in this act, and that we are certainly prepared for some further discussion on this bill and seeing items go forward. We may want to have a very close look at, you know, the final words in the act concerning its proclamation time. I think that that's something that we do need to have further discussion on, but I can say that we know that this particular act will fit quite appropriately within a complex series of actions that have been taken when it comes to improving accountability and improving communications with families in our health-care system.
We know that about this time last year, in November of '06, we proclaimed the RHA amendment act, and in that act, we found the enshrining in law the practice of reporting and investigating critical incidents. Under that new law, health workers would be protected from any liability for participating in communicating of such issues. We know that these kinds of issues came to the fore, of course, in discussions with patients and in discussions with practitioners and with their families about really wanting to get to the heart of situations where something has gone wrong, either in a minor way or terribly wrong.
We know that, historically, particularly prior to the Sinclair report into the pediatric cardiac program in the '90s, we know that it was
practice for medical errors to be swept under the carpet and, consequently, for
real learning and real improvement not to be able to occur. The new way of
dealing with patient safety, not just here in
We also know that in research that has been done on the issue of reporting of critical incidents and in dealing particularly with families who have struggled through arguably the most difficult time in their lives, it's not necessarily compensation that families are looking for at the foremost. It's not necessarily punishment of individuals that they're seeking, but it's acknowledgement, and in many cases it's an apology that would give a family the most comfort in the aftermath of a critical incident.
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So we certainly did take some time to review the legislation. We looked closely at what the Uniform Law Conference recommendations would be concerning this particular bill and we've paid close attention to discussions at the very recent Canadian Patient Safety Conference where apology acts were discussed.
In light of all of that information, we are certainly prepared with perhaps a very minor discussion about the appropriateness of a proclamation time that would provide a system the opportunity to prepare for a new way of doing business. With some minor discussion about that, we would certainly be prepared to be in support of The Apology Act of Bill 202, which is one piece in a very complex puzzle that we need to continue to put together to move forward to ensure that doctors and nurses and practitioners are protected in our province, and most importantly, that patients and their families are as safe as they possibly can be. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr.
Kevin Lamoureux (
We just want to acknowledge that and express our appreciation. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question?
An Honourable Member: Question.
Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is second reading of Bill 202, The Apology Act.
Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed]
Bill 216–The Municipal Water System Phosphorus Control Act
Mr. Speaker: We'll deal with second reading, Bill 216, The Municipal Water System Phosphorus Control Act.
Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the MLA for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux), that Bill 216, The Municipal Water System Phosphorus Control Act; Loi sur la réduction du phosphore dans les réseaux municipaux d'alimentation en eau, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House.
Motion presented.
Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, the intent of this bill is to make another move to help the health of Lake Winnipeg and, in particular, to reduce the phosphorus which is a major cause of the severe algal blooms on Lake Winnipeg which have been plaguing the lake in the last number of years and which are a sign of increasing eutrophication and a sign of increasing and impending major problems for Lake Winnipeg.
This bill
specifically would mandate that municipalities like
This was, indeed, a consideration that was brought forward by the Lake Winnipeg Stewardship Board. I believe it was at least a year ago and maybe longer, but certainly taking it forward and taking this concept forward is an important one.
Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair
Now, the amount
of phosphorus that is being added by the city of
Madam Deputy
Speaker, there is, at the moment, a conference going on in Winnipeg looking at
the quality of water, looking at–I think it's called We All Live Upstream–the
basin of Lake Winnipeg. There are people there from the
So it is timely
that we are bringing forward this bill at Second Reading today in association
with the holding of this conference in
I have had a conversation with Mike Stainton, who is one of the people who's done a lot of work on water phosphorus, and he talks about the fact that this is phosphorus which is added in a soluble way. It is not a sediment-associated phosphorus. There is some scientific basis for believing that this water soluble, and not the sediment-associated phosphorus, may actually be more important in terms of stimulating algal blooms. That is the reason for eliminating phosphorus in automatic dishwashing detergents. It is a reason for reducing this type of phosphorus because it may, in fact, be more active biologically and more potent. All the more reason to reduce it.
There are numerous reasons to act on this. I believe that there is concurrence
around the Legislature of the importance of acting to improve the health of
As I say, this is a measure about which people have known for some time. We
have talked about this earlier on, and our Liberal Party talked about this
during the election as one of the sensible measures that can be taken that will
have an effect to reduce the phosphorus load in
I would just like to spend a moment talking about my conversation last night at
the water conference with Robert Kristjanson, an
individual who's very knowledgeable on
Robert T. Kristjanson has been concerned about algal
blooms on
Robert Kristjansson was talking to me, in fact, about recently coming down from Grindstone, where he's got his camp, to Gimli, where he lives, and as he took his boat in the areas where the water was clearer down south to the southern part of Hecla Island, the water was just loaded with algal blooms and certainly very, very different from say, 20 or 30 years ago. It is a very serious concern. It is a very serious and problematic situation for the lake because we know that at some point, the algal blooms will increase to an extent that they will have devastating effects on the lake. Certainly, it is time to act now. We have an opportunity to act now and I certainly hope that the government will support this measure.
I have had a number of meetings recently with people about the
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Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Inter-governmental Affairs): Madam Deputy Speaker, I first of all want to indicate that I am always pleased to be able to speak on any issue related to water conditions in this province. Obviously, having been the Minister of Water Stewardship, I've had the opportunity to be involved with many of the issues, part of that as Minister of Conservation, but my interest in water, and I'm sure the interest of most Manitobans, is not based on what position I have held or currently held. It's based on the fact it's a critical part of who we are and what we are. It's a critical challenge ahead for us. I think it's important to start in that context.
I also want to add that, while I certainly welcome the contribution of the
Member for
We recognized
right from day one when we came into office the fact that there was an
impending crisis in
Now, it didn't
just happen, either. There were numerous contributing factors, but what really
struck me, by the way, is not only the degree to which this was not on the
agenda in the 1990s, but the degree to where there were
specific policy decisions made that made it worse in terms of water quality in
the 1990s. Probably the most infamous was in regard to the licensing of the
City of
I want to put that in perspective, by the way, because we're now faced with obviously some increased costs in terms of what those facilities would cost with current construction. But, you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, if it had been built in the 1990s–'92, '93, '94–there would have been much lower costs, and we would have also had significant improvements in the waste-water quality that would not have worsened the water condition.
By the way, I
want to stress, too, that the Clean Environment Commission licensing deals not
only with nutrient removal but eventually with
eliminating the current system in the older parts of the city of
Again, though, this could have happened in 1992, '93, '94. It is happening now and
to put it in perspective in terms of nutrients, once the nutrient removal is in
place–the city of
We are moving ahead in many other areas as well, and I think it's important when we do it, to recognize why we put in place Lake Winnipeg Stewardship Board, why we put in place the kind of recommendations that have already been accepted, and why we are not looking for simplistic solutions in terms of this.
I want to look at, for example, in terms of phosphorus. The Lake Winnipeg Stewardship Board report does deal with phosphorus-based strategies for lead control in water mains. That's why there is some use in a number of municipalities currently. It's for public health reasons, controls the leaching of lead into our pipes. And I want to stress, by the way, that our strategy in terms of water has not only been in terms of the environmental side, but also in terms of drinking water protection.
I would hope that the Member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard)
would read the report, would look into some of the background and why,
certainly, we should be looking at alternatives to phosphoric acid in our water
supply systems, but why we should do that by constantly balancing the need to
protect public health. It's not put in the drinking water systems at random;
it's put there to protect the public health. And that's why I'm disappointed in
a way with the Member for
But you know, Robert T. is the first one to be talking about the need for
action, but he has also identified that we have been acting, and I know many
people who are concerned about
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I'm really proud of the fact we brought in The Water Protection Act, the water
quality management zones, not something that is supported by all members of
this House. The members of the Conservative Party, the Leader of the
Conservative Party campaigned against the water quality management zones. He
said he would scrap them, told that to the
Now, a few years ago, they were opposed to the Kyoto Accord. I don't know what's more scary: the fact that they were opposed to it or if they claim to support it now. I mean, George Bush has a climate change plan too, so I'd like to say there's nothing like a convert, but you know what? Somehow, when I see the Conservative knee-jerk reaction–
An
Honourable Member:
Similar to the road to
Mr.
Ashton: Conversion
on the road to
Well, what did the Leader of the Liberal Party do? Like, the Leader of the Liberal Party, you know, I love the Liberal position, or should I say positions, on issues. They have one position, Madam Deputy Speaker, and if you don't like that, they have another. We're still waiting to find out which side of the fence the Liberal Leader is going to come down on. He seems to be firmly impaled on the bipole issue, but when it came to water quality management zones, when the Leader of the Liberal Party was in rural Manitoba, he was talking about–he wouldn't say opposed to water quality management, but he didn't like the way they were being done, and that's the ultimate position that's not a position. I say to the Liberal Leader, if he's trying to establish some credibility on issues, as clear statements supporting the single-most significant initiative taken by the provincial government in the last eight years in terms of legislation, how about a yes, I support it. It's not that hard to say it.
I say to the members of the Conservative Party opposite, if they're really concerned about the environment, here's their chance. This is about water. You know, there's a fairly loose description here in terms of the issue. I suppose it's a bit more specific than that, but they could get up. I would like to hear any of the members opposite say they were wrong on the water quality management zones and that they were the right thing to do and they're committed to them. Madam Deputy Speaker, I don't think that's going to happen. Even when we tried to tighten up The Planning Act to deal with a loophole that could lead to significant problems with intensive livestock–
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member's time has expired.
Is the House ready for the–oh, sorry. The honourable Minister of Education. The honourable Minister of Water Stewardship.
Hon. Christine Melnick (Minister of Water Stewardship): Well, that was a quick 10 minutes, Madam Deputy Speaker.
The issue that we're dealing with today is a very serious one. It's The Municipal Water System Phosphorus Control Act brought forward by the Leader of the Liberal Party. I think it's another example of the Leader of the Liberal Party introducing private members' bills on areas that we have already publicly committed action to. It's also kind of a quick and knee-jerk reaction to a very serious issue.
This matter really, really requires some very serious and careful consideration. The leaching of lead from drinking water lines presents very real human health risks, and we have to make sure that we'll move forward in a significant way and a way that considers all the prime factors around the issue.
Currently, phosphoric acid is the most effective way to protect humans from the health hazards of lead leaching from water pipes into our water supply, and we cannot risk the health of Manitobans by banning the use of phosphorus-based substances in municipal water treatment facilities.
The member previous referred to the Lake Winnipeg Stewardship Board final report, and I would say it's a very good and comprehensive report and it's a report that talks about a new way of dealing with water here in the province of Manitoba. I think that we need to look at this report in its entirety, not in a piecemeal sense, and that's why I was very pleased to receive the report in a very coherent way, in a very cohesive way and to receive the report in its entirety.
There is, in fact, a recommendation in this report that deals with the issue of the leaching of phosphoric acid, and it reads: 26.0 Phosphoric Acid Use and Water Supplies: The Province should initiate a project to identify the number of communities in Manitoba in addition to Winnipeg and Portage la Prairie that are using phosphorus‑based strategies for lead control in water mains and, in collaboration with each community, determine the amount of phosphorus lost to receiving water. This evaluation should consider phosphorus removal plans being implemented for these waste-water treatment facilities.
So, again, this is something that we're already on top of, Madam Deputy
Speaker. It's something that we're moving forward on. But we're moving forward
in a way that is respectful of communities; we're moving forward in a way that
shows that we are looking at the individual situations in each city, rural
township, et cetera. We did talk about the need to work with the City of
You know, when we look at our record on cleaning up the lake, I think it's important
to recognize–and I want to read two quotes. One is from Bill Barlow who has,
I'm grateful to say, agreed to continue to be chair at the Lake Winnipeg
Stewardship Board: "The recommendations in this report are far-reaching,
crossing every sector of society, and present a plan for action. Now is the
time for all of us to accept our collective responsibility and to support the
province's commitment to action for the benefit of
I have a quote
from another Barlow, Madam Deputy Speaker, in fact Maude Barlow, who I
had the pleasure of sharing dinner with on Friday. Her response to
So I think these
are folks who have real interest in water and not just sort of a passing
interest, as the Member for
Now, I also have
the Member for
So how is that
fair on the working people of
Mr. Speaker in the Chair
I would be very
happy to provide this wording to the Member for
Now, when I received the Lake Winnipeg Stewardship final report–
Mr. Speaker: Order. When this matter is again before the House, the honourable member will have three minutes remaining.
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Res. 11–Canadian Internment Camps
Mr. Speaker: The hour being 11 a.m., we will now move on to resolutions and we'll deal with Canadian Internment Camps.
Hon. Jon
Gerrard (
WHEREAS many Manitobans are unaware of the plight of the Ukrainian Canadians who were interned during World War I; and
WHEREAS between 1914 and 1920 Canada witnessed its first internment operation under the War Measures Act, where nearly 9,000 Canadians of Ukrainian origin were systematically arrested and interned in 24 camps throughout the country simply because of their ethnic background; and
WHEREAS some 80,000 Canadian citizens, of which the vast majority were Ukrainian, were forced to register as enemy aliens; and
WHEREAS the internees also suffered significant economic losses which included the confiscation of any wealth they had and the lost earnings as a result of their internment; and
WHEREAS these Canadian citizens suffered from state-sanctioned restrictions on their freedom of speech, movement and association resulting in them being disenfranchised or facing deportation; and
WHEREAS in 2005 under the Liberal government of the Right Honourable Paul Martin, the federal government passed a bill recognizing and promising to rectify the injustice committed against Ukrainian Canadians who were interned from 1914 to 1920.
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba acknowledge that the internment, disenfranchisement and related repressive measures taken against Canadians of Ukrainian origin between 1914 and 1920 were unwarranted and unjust and contrary to the principles now adopted and reflected in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms; and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba aim to inform Manitobans about this tragic episode in our history and to consider undertaking various commemorative projects that will be complemented with research, cultural, and educational projects and programs; and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the government of Manitoba consider supporting the Ukrainian Canadian community in developing forward-looking proposals that will help commemorate their historical experience and educate Canadians about their history in order to highlight and commemorate the contributions that the Ukrainian Canadian community has made to Canada; and to promote a cross-cultural understanding and shared sense of Canadian identity; and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the provincial government consider similar initiatives in relation to other groups including Italian and German Canadians who were also interned during the First World War.
Mr. Speaker: It's been moved by the honourable Member for
WHEREAS many Manitobans–Dispense?
An Honourable Member: Dispense.
Mr. Speaker: Dispense.
Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, this resolution is
brought forward to address a historic injustice and to help Manitobans remember
what had happened and be dedicated to ensuring that in the future this sort of
thing doesn't happen. Certainly, as the centre for the future
In the decades
following
As these immigrants had come from regions in the Ukraine that were under the oppression of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, although it should be noted that in time some, and more and more, were Canadian-born, others were naturalized, they were all from these areas of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, tended to be categorized as Austrians.
As a result with the outbreak of World War I, in spite of the fact that these Ukrainians from the former Austro-Hungarian Empire were contributing to the betterment of Canada, in spite of the fact that they had fled to get out of the oppressive Austro‑Hungarian Empire regime, they were caught up in 1914 with the implementation of the War Measures Act, and they were classified, totally inappropriately, as enemy aliens.
So between 1914
and 1920, what happened was the first internment
operations under the War Measures Act and, sadly, under the War Measures Act,
thousands of loyal Canadians were systematically arrested and interned in 24
camps throughout the country simply because of their national origin. Two of
those camps were in
Overall,
throughout
One of the
innocent people who was apprehended during
There is a book written entitled, Prisoners in the Promised Land: The Ukrainian Internment Diary of Anya Soloniuk,
and this book is based upon the life of Mary Manko.
It is based upon the story of Mary Manko and how she
was interned after having come to
Mary Manko was the last known survivor, surviving person, from the internment camps, and certainly her name in this context has been well published and her story now in book form has been well documented. It is in Mary Manko's memory and the memory of many others who were interned that I bring forward this resolution today and hope that we will have unanimous support in this Legislative Chamber to take this forward.
There were, it should be noted, actions above and beyond the internments. More than 88,000 Ukrainians, who were not imprisoned, had to report regularly to the police and to follow a certain number of directives, as you might happen or see in a police state. Certainly, this was not what they were expecting.
* (11:10)
Many of the internees suffered significant economic losses, including the confiscation of wealth, the loss of land, lost earnings, as a result of their internment. Some of the wealth apparently remains in the federal government's treasury to this day. We hope at some point that there will be restitution, but certainly we in the Manitoba Legislature can take an important step today by all supporting this resolution.
It is interesting that in 1915 the British Foreign Office twice instructed Ottawa to grant Ukrainians preferential treatment, argued that they were to be considered friendly aliens rather than enemy aliens, but unfortunately the requests were ignored.
The Ukrainian community is seeking today an official acknowledgement of what
happened during a period of international and domestic crisis and hopeful to
ensure that no other ethnic, religious or racial minority ever suffers as
Ukrainians once did. On November 25, 2005, Royal Assent was given to Bill
C-331. The Internment of Persons of Ukrainian Origin Recognition Act obliges
the government of
The Ukrainian-Canadian community has placed memorial plaques at many of the
internment sights to remind Canadians of what happened at these locations,
including one plaque at the Legislative Buildings in
Mr. Speaker, I'd like to recognize the work of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, the Ukrainian Canadian Civil Liberties Association and the Ukrainian Canadian Foundation of Taras Shevchenko in their determination to make sure that there is a proper acknowledgement. Thank you.
Introduction of Guests
Mr. Speaker: Before recognizing the honourable member, I would just like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us Avery Selby-Lyons, who is the daughter of the honourable Member for Southdale (Ms. Selby).
On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today.
* * *
Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): I'm pleased to speak in this debate today because, well, for a number of reasons. Canadians of Ukrainian descent are the largest ethnic group after British in the Burrows constituency. Also my wife is a Canadian of Ukrainian descent, and she has a connection to the internment issue because one of her ancestors in the Sturby family was interred in an internment camp.
In fact, it's an interesting story because he left Manitoba and was heading back to Ukraine, but before he could get on a ship at Halifax he was arrested and put in an internment camp and, in fact, as far as his family were concerned, he disappeared from the face of the earth because they had no contact or no news from him for a couple of years until after the internment camps were closed down and he was released. Because of my wife's connection with this issue through her family, she had the honour of being one of two people to unveil the plaque on the grounds of the Manitoba Legislature several years ago.
I'm also interested in civil liberties, and I'm a member of the Manitoba Association for Rights and Liberties and, as we know, this was one of the worst violations of civil liberties in Canadian history among others which I will mention. Now this issue has already been debated because in May of 2005 I introduced a resolution, Resolution 4, titled, Redress of Canadian Wartime and Immigration Measures and specifically one of the WHEREASes said, "WHEREAS Ukrainians, Italians and Germans were interned in camps during the First and Second World War as the result of the War Measures Act enacted in 1914." I spent most of my speech talking about the Ukrainian internees.
And what happened to that resolution? Well, it was debated by a number of
members. In fact, it was seconded by the Member for Russell (Mr. Derkach), who has a great interest in this issue. The
Member for
I'd like to read the WHEREASes, because we concluded the resolution by commending the federal government, at the time, a Liberal federal government, for allocating money to commemorate and educate the Canadian public on these tragic events. Specifically, what the THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED clauses said, I will read into the record again: "THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Manitoba Legislature commend the federal government for allocating $25 million over the next three years in the February 2005 budget for commemorative and educational initiatives meant to highlight the painful aspects of Canada's history; and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Manitoba Legislature urge the federal government to continue negotiations with the affected communities to resolve their individual grievances and enable these communities to properly commemorate those tragic events and to ensure they will be understood and remembered by all Canadians."
So that sounds good. The federal government committed $25 million in their budget, and they actually had a program. I believe the acronym was ACE, and I think it stands for action, commemoration, education. They were going to negotiate with a number of communities, the Ukrainian community and the Italian community and the German community, who were all affected by the War Measures Act during and after the First World War.
However, it's interesting to note that nothing happened. Here we have a federal
Liberal government who allocated $25 million in their budget and didn't spend
the money. Now, we probably should not be surprised by that because that
happened in a number of areas including a national daycare program where it
never got off the ground. Then, before they could spend any money, the
government changed, and what happened? Well, the new federal government, or
Canada's new government, as they used to like to call themselves, scrapped the
ACE program and brought in their own program, but it's a different program, and
the communities involved have all rejected it. They say it's just another
funding program, and it won't reflect the communities' wishes, including the
Ukrainian community. So the Italian, German and Ukrainian communities in
What does the Member for
Now, we know that these issues are very important, and it's good that they can be debated in the Manitoba Legislature, but I think what we need is action. I guess we'll have to wait and see if the new federal Conservative government actually gives out grants and allocates money for commemorative plaques and education and other things, but don't hold your breath because the communities involved aren't very happy with the new program of the new government.
I think the one area of hope here is the
We have international museums, for example, the
I commend Gail Asper and the foundation that is raising money, to which
the federal government, the provincial government, and the City of
* (11:20)
It won't be just the Holocaust that is commemorated but we hope and expect that in addition to the War Measures Act during the First World War that resulted in the internment of Ukrainians and Italians and Germans and others, there will be educational displays about human rights abuses toward Chinese immigrants who were subject to a poll tax and who were excluded for many, many years from immigrating to Canada, and also the continuous journey legislation of 1908 which was imposed on immigration from South Asia and India, and also the refusal to admit Jewish refugees during the Second World War to Canada, and also, importantly, the War Measures Act of 1942 that affected Japanese Canadians.
So we look forward to the museum portraying all of these human rights and civil liberties abuses and educating Canadians and people around the world about them so that they don't happen again. I think that's most important, that we can learn from the mistakes of history, that we can learn that violating people's rights and moving people from one part of the country to the other does not work and in many cases they were done for reasons that cannot be justified.
In fact, if you look at the record, and this was in my original speech on this topic, Ukrainian Canadians were interned partly because of pressure from the private sector. For example, there's correspondence from CP Rail saying they wanted these people off the streets because they were afraid that they would be unemployed and cause problems. So there was pressure on the government to do this from the private sector.
So we hope that these kinds of abuses never happen again, and we look forward
to being educated about them through the
Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to rise and add some comments to the debate on this resolution.
Mr. Speaker, if we could lay our partisanship aside for one moment this morning, I think it would benefit all of us to support the intent of this resolution. Maybe we all don't agree with the specific language in the resolution because it does refer to action that our provincial government maybe should take and action that was taken by a previous Liberal government, but I say to the legislators here that this is an issue that should transcend all political parties in terms of its importance and in terms of its support.
Mr. Speaker, I am of Ukrainian descent and therefore resolutions of this kind cut fairly close to the heart when you bring forward, I guess, the memories of people who were interned during the First and Second World War, but this particular resolution speaks specifically to the First World War and the people that were interned during that period of time who were not just Ukrainian. There were Chinese, Ukrainian, German, Mennonite families who were interned during that period of time because they were considered enemies of the country even though they had sworn allegiance to the Queen, the King, to the monarch. They were, because of a War Measures Act, they were considered unfriendly people in this land.
But what is even more tragic, Mr. Speaker, is the fact that many of these people lost all of their belongings. They were confiscated. Their property was confiscated. Their money was confiscated and was never, ever returned, and I think that there is a debt owed to these people and to the descendants of these people even today because we, as a society, need to look at how individuals' rights have been trampled upon and how those things need to be corrected in a modern society.
I remember the fight that Inky Mark put up with regard to recognizing this
incident, this event in history. Inky Mark is the MP for the
Mr. Speaker, the THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED also talks to the provincial government. I think as a provincial government regardless of which party is in government, we, collectively as legislators, have a responsibility here. Therefore we need to inform Manitobans about this tragic event in history. We need to ensure that it never happens again. We need to ensure that–you know, Manitobans, in general, are informed about the true history of what happened in this province regardless of whether it is negative to us or not as a society, because it is from those types of incidents and that kind of I guess history that we all learn so that it is never repeated again.
We oftentimes talk in this House about racism. We talk about the fact that we are a multicultural province and that we need to be tolerant and to respect each other regardless of what ethnic background, what culture we come from. If we can't demonstrate that tolerance here in the Legislature, Mr. Speaker, how do we really expect Manitobans outside of the Legislature to show respect and tolerance of one another? It is by example that we lead here and I think it's incumbent upon each one of us to do that.
Now, from time to time in the Legislature we get a little bit excited,
especially during Question Period. Sometimes comments are made which we later
regret. But that happens in the heat of an argument and that's why we're always
given an opportunity to correct the record, to perhaps correct our statements
and then to move on. But, by and large, I think we have to show the example as
legislators to the rest of
Mr. Speaker, I do believe that there is a responsibility not only of the federal government but also of the provincial government to show the initiative, to take the steps forward that should be taken so that this kind of historic event, negative as it is, may, in fact, be commemorated appropriately. Whether it's through a plaque that is placed in the Legislative grounds, whether it's a monument that's placed–you know, just last week, we passed the second reading of a bill that will put a monument up to people who have died in the line of duty. But this kind of event I think even supersedes something like that in terms of the tragedy of it and also in terms of its historic significance.
We also passed a resolution in this Chamber last year that was brought forward by the Member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale), and I was happy to speak to it, support it, and, indeed, we unanimously passed it in the House here. [interjection] Oh, it was back in 2005. It was not last year, but two years. Time passes quickly.
But, Mr. Speaker, that's the kind of co-operation I think that is needed in order for us to mark these types of events, to show the public, to show society that, indeed, we are sensitive to those types of issues that occur in our history and that we move forward and try to rectify them and ensure that in the future these types of incidents don't ever, ever occur again.
So I'm looking
forward this morning to us dealing with this resolution and perhaps it doesn't
meet every need that we have, and perhaps government finds it somewhat
sensitive that we are calling in this resolution upon the government
acting in a particular way, but I don't see this as compelling the
government to take action in a negative way. It calls on government to consider
supporting the Ukrainian-Canadian community in developing forward-looking
proposals that will help commemorate their historical experience and educate
Canadians about the history in order to highlight and commemorate the
contributions that the Ukrainian-Canadian community has made to
I think that sort of speaks to the intent of the resolution and I'm hopeful that, together, we can pass this resolution in the Legislature this morning.
* (11:30)
Hon.
Christine Melnick (Minister of Water Stewardship): Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to speak
to this resolution. As other private members' resolutions, as the Member for
Burrows (Mr. Martindale) has shared with the House some personal experience
with internment, I, too, have had Ukrainian relatives who were interned in the
I think we have to take a very hard look at some of the measures that are being taken today in our country around internment of people. I'm very concerned about what has happened around some Muslim Canadians being interned with no representation, with no right to legal counsel, no right even to the evidence that is being presented about them. So we must be ever vigilant and we must–I know the sentiment in the House today is "never again," but we have to look at what is happening today and be very clear on what is and is not acceptable for Canadians.
Of course between 1914 and 1920, two years after the First World War ended,
These internees, the Ukrainian internees suffered from economic loss. Again, in
the story of my own family, my father's cousin was walking along a road in
I think it's also important to recognize the PMR that was passed unanimously in this House, brought forward by the Member for Burrows some two years ago, and I'd like to read some of the language from that. It's very good.
WHEREAS Ukrainians, Italians and Germans were interned in camps during the First and Second World Wars as a result of the War Measures Act enacted in 1914; and
WHEREAS Chinese immigrants were subject to a poll tax as high as $500 between the years 1884‑1923, after which the Canadian government passed the Immigration act which respectively excluded all Chinese immigration to Canada until after the Second World War; and
WHEREAS
from 1907 to 1914, a series of restrictive measures, such as the
"continuous journey" legislation of 1908, were imposed on immigration
from southern Asia and
WHEREAS
during the Second World War, 711 Jewish refugees from the holocaust were
interned under suspicion for being spies and 900 Jewish refugees from Nazis
Germany aboard the liner
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Manitoba Legislature commend the federal government for allocating $25 million over the next three years in the February budget of 2005 for commemorative and educational initiatives meant to highlight the painful aspects of Canada's history; and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Manitoba Legislature urge the federal government to continue negotiations with the affected communities to resolve their individual grievances and enable these communities to properly commemorate those tragic events and to ensure they will be understood and remembered by all Canadians.
So, again, that was unanimously supported in this House, and it is unfortunate, Mr. Speaker, that the Liberal government of the day set aside some $25 million and did not follow through on any actions. I think that that is a false promise and that is a slight on the people who have suffered. Every day, these people are passing, and they will pass without any recognition of what was done to them, to their families, to their communities, what was done to them in an economic way, what was done to them in a social way. I think it's very important that the federal government move quickly on these.
I would like to
say that I was pleased to see redress for Japanese Canadians. Again, my aunt
did benefit from that, if you could call it a benefit. She did receive
compensation when in 1988
Again, it is very important that the federal government of the day carry on, as they have, with compensation for Chinese Canadians. I think it's an important statement to the world. You know, what happens in this country the rest of the world looks at. There was compensation provided for Chinese Canadians, but I understand to this day there has not been official policy or redress from the Canadian government for the mistreatment, unjust internment and confiscation of possessions.
Again, I stand
with Ukrainian Canadians across
So, again, I support the
* (11:40)
Mr. Ron
Schuler (
We, however, do have that luxury. We have what I would consider a democracy that grows, that changes, that understands that things that might have been acceptable a hundred years ago are no longer acceptable today. In fact, there was a time when women were not allowed to vote, something for myself and even so for my children. I talked to classrooms and I explained to them that it wasn't that long ago that women really had no vote in democracy, and they look at you blankly. I mean, it's just a given for our generation that that be the case, and we realized as a democracy that there was a problem with that; that that was wrong. The same thing with slavery. You look at the speeches that Abraham Lincoln gave. I mean, finally, finally they realized that it was so wrong that it had to be changed.
Well, so, too, is it what happened with the internment. There is a list, and probably this one's not exclusively, although the Ukrainians were the significant majority of those in the camps. There were, and they were imprisoned or registered as enemy aliens: Poles, Italians, Bulgarians, Croatians, Turks, Serbians, Hungarians, Russians, Jews and Romanians, as well as Germans were included in that. It's unbelievable that we, as a democracy, as what was then a very modern nation state, would turn on our citizens like this. So what we have in front of us, I would suggest to this Chamber, has a lot less to do about the individuals because by and large, most of them have passed on to eternity. It really has to do with us as a democracy.
I often say to my children, as an example, I say, when you apologize, you're not apologizing because of the other person; in fact, it has very little to do with the other person. It really has all to do about you as an individual. It has to do with you as a conscience. It has to do with you as your character. It has to do with where you are as an individual in life. That's where we, as modern democracies, as nation states, look back at our history, and it's not to rewrite history, but it is to acknowledge that something we did was not right. It is to put up a benchmark, to put up a memorial, to indicate that we viewed that as being something that we would never do again. It has everything to do with us as a democracy, with us as a nation state, as an evolving form of government, an evolving system of government. That's what this has everything to do with.
Where are we as Canadians with our democracy? Where are we as a province? Where are we as a legislative Chamber? This Chamber existed during that time period and maybe there were some that stood up in this House and said, that's wrong. I actually don't have that information, but we have the opportunity right now to stand up and say: We view what happened to those individuals as being wrong. We apologize. In fact, we are big enough to go so far as to put up some kind of memorial that says, for generations that come after us, that that kind of thing is not acceptable.
It is really about this Chamber. It is really about democracy. It doesn't have as much to do anymore about the individuals that were incarcerated. It is really something that looks forward. It is about growing a democracy. It's about growing a democratic system.
We are all democrats in one form or another. We believe in the principles of freedom; one woman, one man, one vote. We believe those principles and the resolution we have before us points no fingers. I appreciate that. It points no fingers at anybody. It doesn't lay blame. What it says is, hereon forth going forward, we, we as a Chamber, will recognize that incarcerating individuals for really no reason whatsoever, for no crime having been committed other than where they might have been born, or a religious belief, that we will not tolerate that going forward.
I appreciate this motion coming forward. I support it because I believe that, first and foremost, we should be about individual rights, and individual rights were sacrificed at that time. We, as a democracy, must keep evolving. We must get better. We must view what comes from our past and look at it through that prism that, can we improve on that. I think this, what is before us, this private member's motion, is very much appropriate and, certainly, we, on the Progressive Conservative opposition side, would now be prepared for this to go to vote, that this now be accepted by the Manitoba Legislative Assembly.
Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): It's my pleasure to rise to speak
to this resolution proposed by the honourable Member for
As most folks in here will know, my community of Transcona has a very large Ukrainian population. Of course, I've had the distinct pleasure of working with the good folks of my community on a number of fronts, and a number of issues, and I'm quite proud of the fact that we've had a very good working relationship during my years in this Manitoba Legislature. But, of course, before I had the opportunity to come to this place, I also had a chance to work at the Canadian National Railway shops in Transcona and, of course, there was a very, very large Ukrainian population working in the Transcona shops.
In this
particular weekend coming, Mr. Speaker, I have the distinct pleasure and I've
been invited to participate with the St. Michael's Ukrainian Catholic Church
congregation, the good folks of that church, as they celebrate the 90th
anniversary in my community. I can only think of how important the history of
It's very fitting as I look around this Chamber here today, members of the Legislative Assembly, Mr. Speaker, with each of us wearing our poppies, commemorating the service of our Canadians in world wars that our country has participated in, and to think that during those periods of time when we had people of all ethnicities serving our country that we would take such steps to restrict the freedoms and liberties of certain segments of our society. The very rights and freedoms that those people were out putting their life on the line for, and in fact dying for, and the poppy is a symbol of that sacrifice, and yet we have such a dark period in our history that penalized so many people of our country.
Mr. Speaker, 93 years ago, of course, was the time when the St. Michael's Church started its activities in the community of Transcona. Of course, we're quite proud of the history of the Ukrainian people as they built our great city and our great province, and are proud to have so many friends in the Ukrainian community living within the community of Transcona.
But I can only think back, Mr. Speaker, some of the experiences that I've had in my life. I've had the chance to work with so many different people in my life, quite proud to call them friends. I think back to the time when the Canadian government was negotiating at the time with the people of Japanese ancestry living in our community. There was a principal living in my community that was spearheading the reconciliation, so to speak, with the Japanese-Canadian community. Of course, it was negotiated at that time that there would be some recognition that the Japanese Canadians were treated unjustly and unfairly during the Second World War.
I can think back to a particular neighbour of mine, an individual that I worked
with for some 20 years whose family was of Japanese ancestry and had been
living in
* (11:50)
It's interesting, Mr. Speaker, that while this individual living in my community harbours no ill will toward the Canadian people, he is very saddened by the fact of the actions that were taken by the then Canadian government and that there was no way that you could ever recover what has been lost to you and the sacrifices that you've had for your family.
Now, Mr. Speaker, I looked through the resolution that has been brought forward
by the Member for
I had the opportunity, Mr. Speaker, in preparing for this special event that's
going to occur in my community this weekend, looking at some of the history of
people of Ukrainian ancestry that are living in Canada and what it meant to
them at the time when the Canadian government introduced the War Measures Act
in 1914. It was through an Order‑in-Council. It wasn't passed by the
democratic institution of the Parliament of Canada; it was done by an
Order-in-Council of the Canadian government of the day, causing all people of
Ukrainian ancestry to be rounded up in the country and to be transported
elsewhere into internment camps and to be essentially used as slave labour
within our country. Now, that is a very black period on a country like
Nevertheless, in 1914 the government of the day introduced the War Measures Act
that stripped people of Ukrainian ancestry, and there were some 80,000 folks
living in
I have to think, Mr. Speaker, that one of the things that we pride in our
country, one of the things that was developed through this forced labour of the
Ukrainian population was
Now, the people of Ukrainian ancestry that were rounded up, not only used as
forced labourers to develop Banff National Park, they were also used for the
logging industry in northern Ontario and Québec. They were used to build the
steel mills in
So, Mr. Speaker, I think that we have to recognize that Ukrainian Canadians,
Italian Canadians, German Canadians, Japanese Canadians and all others that
were affected through the various War Measures Act
brought about by the government of
Mr. Speaker, perhaps as my colleague the Member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale) has indicated, the Canadian Museum for Human Rights will be a way to help to educate other Canadians to the atrocities–and I use that word guardedly–that have occurred with respect to the trampling of the rights and freedoms of Canadians, and that the Canadian Museum for Human Rights will help to inform and educate not only Manitobans but people from all walks of life in all parts of the world.
So, Mr. Speaker, I think that there is an opportunity here for us to recognize the Ukrainian Canadian Congress for the work that they have done and the fact that we have also had the chance to pass the Member for Burrows' resolution unanimously in a previous session of this Legislature and that it's incumbent upon the federal government to do the work that they have to do to right this wrong. Thank you.
Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr. Speaker, it's an important resolution, I think, that's worthy of support. I commend the Liberal leader for bringing forward this resolution. I would ask at this time for leave of the House to vote on this resolution and to allow the government, of course, to be able to stand up and vote for the resolution as we will on this side. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker: Is there leave of the House to vote on the resolution or are there more speakers?
Some Honourable Members: No.
Some Honourable Members: Leave.
Mr. Speaker: No, it's been denied. There are more speakers up.
Point of Order
Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Lac du Bonnet, on a point of order?
Mr. Hawranik: Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let the record show that members on this side of the House, including the Liberal member, have supported the leave and–
Mr. Speaker: Order. Points of orders are to point out to the Speaker a breach of a rule or a departure from the procedures of the House, not to be used for debates or disputing facts that other members have put on the record.
Point of Order
Mr.
Speaker: The
honourable Member for
Mr.
Kevin Lamoureux (
Mr. Speaker: Is there leave of the House for members that wish to speak, to speak on the resolution and then once it's concluded that there would be a vote?
Some Honourable Members: No.
Some Honourable Members: Agreed.
Mr. Speaker: No? It's been denied.
* * *
Mr. Bidhu Jha (Radisson): Mr. Speaker, I rise to put a few words on a very important point relating to this bill which I think relates with human rights. I'm led to believe that in the past, the Member for Burrows (Mr. Martindale) has already talked about this particular issue. We have discussed this in the past and it was unanimously dealt in the past, as I understand. Now–
Point of Order
Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for
Mr. Gerrard: I just want to make sure that the Member for Radisson (Mr. Jha) knows full well that if he keeps on talking, we will not be able to have a vote.
Mr. Speaker: Order. Once again, I remind members what a point of order is. If members wish to discuss amongst themselves, we have loges to discuss that. But the points of order are to bring to the attention of the Speaker a breach of our rule or a departure from our practices.
The honourable member has no point of order.
* * *
Mr. Speaker: The honourable Member for Radisson has the floor.
Mr. Jha: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to take permission of the House to take leave, because I would not be able to finish what I want to say in a few minutes.
I'd like to speak on this particular resolution because I believe that we have discussed this, and the Member for Burrows talked about that this resolution brings the values of the Canadian society. I, Mr. Speaker, when I chose this country to be my home, I came with a dream of making Canada a country that we all know is the God's land, I call it.
I think we have already seen several things that have happened in the past to make sure that we understand that we all, we all have learned from the history. Members have spoken about what problems have–
Mr. Speaker: Order. When this matter is again before the House, the honourable member will have nine minutes remaining. [interjection] Order.
Was the honourable member asking for leave for the Speaker not to see the clock for him to conclude his comments? Is that what the honourable member was asking, or were you asking for leave to continue with your speech?
Mr. Jha: No.
Mr. Speaker: Okay. He did not officially ask for leave.
When this matter is again before the House, the honourable Member for Radisson will have nine minutes remaining.
The hour being 12 noon–
Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.
Mr. Speaker: Order. The hour being 12 noon, we will recess and we'll reconvene at 1:30 p.m.