The House met at 1:30 p.m.

Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom, know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

Introduction of Bills

Bill 12–The Highway Traffic Amendment and Drivers and Vehicles Amendment Act

Hon. Andrew Swan (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Entrepreneurship, Training and Trade (Mr. Bjornson), that Bill 12, The Highway Traffic Amendment and Drivers and Vehicles Amendment Act; Loi modifiant le Code de la route et la Loi sur les conducteurs et les véhicules, be now read a first time.

Motion presented.

Mr. Swan: I'm pleased to introduce this bill to the Legislature. This bill will expand the scope of The Highway Traffic Act's motor vehicle driver's licence sanctions to apply to persons found operating a vessel, aircraft or railway equipment while impaired.

This bill will introduce tiered short-term motor vehicle driver's licence suspensions for driving with a blood alcohol level between .05 per cent and .08 per cent or failing a physical co-ordination test by replacing the existing 24-hour driver's licence suspension with increasing suspension levels, starting with 24 hours for a first violation and followed by 15 days for a second, 30 days for a third, or 60 days for a subsequent violation within 10 years. It will provide an appeal process for tiered short-term suspensions. It will increase the window for determining if a driver is a repeat short-term suspension violator, and it will eliminate the seven‑day driving permit that currently applies between the end of a short-term suspension and the start of the three-month administrative driver's licence suspension.

Mr. Speaker, these further measures will continue to make Manitoba a leader at tackling the challenge of impaired driving, and it will make our streets and our highways safer.

Mr. Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed]

Petitions

Multiple Sclerosis Treatment

Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

And these are the reasons for this petition:

More than 3,000 Manitobans and their families are impacted by multiple sclerosis, and Manitoba has one of the highest rates of MS in the world.

New research indicates that there may be a link between a condition known as chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency and multiple sclerosis. Preliminary studies indicate that many MS symptoms can be relieved with angioplasty, a common procedure.

In order to test this procedure for safety and effectiveness, additional research and clinical trials are needed. Manitoba is not testing for CCSVI, conducting research or conducting clinical trials.

The Province of Newfoundland and Labrador will be monitoring MS patients who have undergone the liberation treatment and studying its impact. Saskatchewan has announced that it will move forward with a clinical trial when their research community presents a proposal and has invited other provinces to join them. Meanwhile, Manitoba's provincial government has not taken up this initiative nor shown leadership on this issue.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

To urge the Minister of Health to consider making the province of Manitoba a leader in CCSVI research and to move forward with clinical trials as soon as possible.

And this petition is signed by J. Yerama, M. Veldkamp, N. Ryan and many, many other Manitobans.

Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House.

RCMP Rural Service

Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

These are the reasons for this petition:

Manitobans deserve to live in a safe environment and feel secure in their homes and their communities. Some regions of rural Manitoba have been hard hit by crime, including residential breaks and enters, property theft, vandalism and other offences that threaten people's security.

In some areas, RCMP detachments are not staffed on a 24-hour basis. Criminal elements capitalize on this, engaging in crimes at times when officers may not be readily available to respond to calls for service.

Some believe the current RCMP detachment boundaries need to be redrawn so that service delivery could be faster and more effective.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

To request the Minister of Justice to consider working with the RCMP, federal government and communities to develop strategies to address service challenges in rural Manitoba, such as possibility of having response units that could be dispatched to regions affected by crime waves.

And to request the Minister of Justice to consider working with stakeholders to determine if the current RCMP detachment boundaries are designed to ensure the swiftest and most effective service delivery.

This petition is signed by D. Turko, C. Marr, A. Moar and many, many other fine Manitobans.

Bipole III Project

Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

The background to this petition is as follows:

In September of 2007, the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro directed the utility to abandon an east-side route for its Bipole III project. Five days later, Manitoba Hydro announced that the utility would be proceeding with a west-side route.

Manitoba Hydro staff, technical experts and regular Manitobans have communicated to the provincial government they would prefer an east-side route.

A west-side route will be almost 500 kilometres longer than an east-side route, less reliable, and cost taxpayers at least an additional $1.75 billion.

The extra cost being forced on Manitoba Hydro and Manitobans by the provincial government will mean that every Manitoba family will end up paying $7,000 for this decision.

Since the current provincial government has come into power, hydro rates have already increased by almost 20 per cent. If this decision is not reversed, it will result in further rate increases for Manitobans.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

To urge the provincial government to allow Manitoba Hydro to proceed with the shorter, cheaper and greener east-side route, subject to necessary regulatory approvals, enabling the utility to keep our hydro bills lower and to ensure a more reliable electricity system.

And, Mr. Speaker, this petition is signed by G. Peters, A. Peters, E. Klassen and many, many other Manitobans.

* (13:40)

Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Carman): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

The background to this petition is as follows:

Manitoba Hydro staff, technical experts and regular Manitobans have communicated to the provincial government that they would prefer an east-side route.

A west-side route will be almost 500 kilometres longer than an east-side route, less reliable and cost taxpayers at least an additional $1.75 billion.

The extra cost being forced on Manitoba Hydro and Manitobans by the provincial government will mean that every Manitoba family will end up paying $7,000 for this decision.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

And this petition is signed by D. Forbes, G. Pritchard, B. Nostedt and many, many more fine Manitobans.

Mr. David Faurschou (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

The petition reads as follows:

The background to this petition: In September of 2007, the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro directed the utility to abandon an east-side route for its Bipole III project. Five days later, Manitoba Hydro announced that the utility would be proceeding with a west-side route.

Manitoba Hydro staff, technical experts and regular Manitobans have communicated to the provincial government that they would prefer an east-side route.

A west-side route will be almost 500 kilometres longer than an east-side route, less reliable and cost ratepayers at least an additional $1.75 billion.

The extra cost being forced on Manitoba Hydro and Manitobans by the provincial government will mean that every Manitoba family will end up paying $7,000 for this decision.

Since the current provincial government has come to power, hydro rates have already increased by almost 20 per cent. If this decision is not reversed, it will result in further rate increases for Manitobans.

We petition the Manitoba Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

And this petition is signed by L. Christensen, R. Taylor, J. Smith and many, many other fine Manitobans.

Ministerial Statements

World AIDS Day

Hon. Jim Rondeau (Minister of Healthy Living, Youth and Seniors): Mr. Speaker, I have a ministerial statement for the House.

Mr. Speaker, today I stand in the House to recognize World AIDS Day. This is an internationally recognized day of remembrance for those who have lost their fight against HIV/AIDS and those who are now living with AIDS. It brings attention to the need for ongoing vigilance in responding to the challenges of HIV/AIDS in Manitoba and around the world.

Over the past four years, we have committed over $2 million in funding to increase the access to HIV testing for Manitobans. We have also improved resources for the care and treatment of those–of individuals living with HIV/AIDS.

I want to acknowledge and thank all the dedicated health-care workers, advocates, volunteers, strong community-based organizations and world‑class researchers based here in Manitoba whose invaluable contributions have made a tremendous difference to all the people whose lives have been touched by HIV and AIDS.

Mr. Speaker, I respectfully request that we further honour everyone whose lives have been directly affected by HIV and AIDS with a moment of silence after other members have spoken. Thank you.

Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize World AIDS Day.

Over 33 million individuals worldwide live with HIV/AIDS and the numbers continue to rise. In fact, earlier this year we learned that the number of HIV cases in Manitoba jumped 20 per cent from 2008 to 2009. These statistics are troubling and they are indicative of a government that has not done nearly enough to address the spread of this devastating disease. In fact, this spike in HIV cases came two years after health experts initially raised concerns about the rate of HIV infection in Manitoba, particularly among our Aboriginal population.

The rate of infection among Aboriginals in Canada is growing faster than any other group. Here in Manitoba almost half of all new HIV infections are among Aboriginal people. Increasingly, women are also a high-risk group for HIV. Last year there were eight new cases of HIV among Winnipeg Aboriginal women under the age of 24. That, Mr. Speaker, is a tragedy.

The rate of HIV infection is not the only cause for concern. A report released earlier this year showed that most new cases of HIV in Manitoba are being diagnosed so late that patients are already ill and in hospital. Some aren't diagnosed until they have full-blown AIDS. This is a disturbing revelation because the longer someone goes without a diagnosis–

Mr. Speaker: Order. Because our rules state that when dealing with ministerial statements that the opposition members do not exceed the time that it has taken the minister, and I was just going to let the member know that she had exceeded. I gave some leeway, but it was going on a little too long.

Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): Yes, Mr. Speaker, I would ask for leave for the member to finish her private ministerial statement response.

Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Mr. Speaker: Okay, it's been agreed to. Go ahead. Please continue.

Mrs. Driedger: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and to the House.

I would also like to take this opportunity to recognize the hard work of the many community‑based agencies, public health units, volunteers, families and friends that provide ongoing support to Manitobans who are living with HIV/AIDS and who work diligently to try to prevent the spread of this disease.

I also commend all the individuals who work tirelessly in our province and around the world to bring a future without AIDS. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I ask for leave to speak to the minister's statement.

Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member have leave?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Mr. Speaker: Leave has been granted.

Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, I join others in this Assembly in recognizing World AIDS Day in recognizing that around the world there have been many millions of people who have been affected by this disease and its terrible impact, devastating impact, on individuals and families and in some areas of the world on whole communities.

We are fortunate that in Manitoba the numbers have not been higher than they are. Certainly, in Saskatchewan, which has now four times the national average in terms of its numbers of HIV/AIDS cases, it is a warning to us that we need to be paying a lot of attention and we should be putting increasing efforts into efforts to prevent and to provide the most up-to-date drugs for the treatment of people in Manitoba with HIV/AIDS. And I want to salute those who have been part of the effort to prevent or treat HIV/AIDS in Manitoba.

Mr. Speaker: Is there agreement for a moment of silence?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed.

Mr. Speaker: There is agreement. Okay, please rise for a moment of silence.

A moment of silence was observed.

* (13:50)

Introduction of Guests

Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today from Springs Christian Academy, we have 75 grade 9 and 10 students under the direction of Mr. Brad Dowler. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable First Minister.

And also in the public gallery we have from Kelvin High School, we have 30 grade 9 students under the direction of Mr. Slavo Federkevic. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard).

On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you all here today.

Oral Questions

Social Assistance Work Training Programs

Government Priority

Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, just over four years ago, this government made a big promise. With great fanfare, they promised that they were going to try to move more people from welfare into work.

Mr. Speaker, they announced a big budget in order to achieve this goal. And now four years later, what we see is that, after overspending virtually every other line in the provincial budget, that they underspent their Building Independence line by half, about $7 million, over four years.

I want to ask the Premier: Why is it that it's such a high priority for him to overspend on things like bipole but such a low priority to move people from welfare to work?

Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): I thank the member for the question. I just note there has been no money spent on bipole yet, but there has been money spent on stimulating 29,000 additional jobs in this province of Manitoba, which is why we fully entered into the stimulus program, to keep Manitobans working, and which has resulted in us having the lowest unemployment rate in the country and the lowest unemployment rate for young people in the country as well.

And that's how–we have provided a program to move people off social assistance into training, and we've expanded our training budgets. If you look at the Department of Entrepreneurship, Training and Trade, you will see expanded resources for training, which is why we put additional money into our education system so that young people can continue to go to school and get those skills they need to enter the labour market.

All of those additional resources, members opposite voted against them. They refused to support those kinds of initiatives which generate jobs, generate training and generate education in Manitoba.

Mr. McFadyen: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance (Ms. Wowchuk) didn't vote for the budget either, and maybe she knew it was because they had no intention of following through on many of the promises that they were making.

And I want to ask the Premier: If he did–if they're doing such a good job moving people from welfare to work, why is it that from last year to this year we've had a 6 per cent increase in the number of people on welfare, from 56,000 people last year to 60,000 people this year, a record high level of Manitobans now collecting welfare?

Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, there's no question that when a recession occurs, people need additional support when the economy tightens up, and we've seen a dramatic decline globally in private investment that has generated jobs. But what we have seen in this province–as well as many other provinces in Canada, indeed, all provinces in Canada–is a focused effort to generate employment by building schools, by building hospitals, by having a record investment in infrastructure, including highways and sewer and water infrastructure. And we have put additional resources into training to allow people to get those skills that will allow them to enter the labour market.

And in the specific, to the social assistance program, the minister has restructured that program to put an emphasis on work incentives. Portable benefits for children: You can move from social assistance into the labour market and retain supports for children. Port–benefits for shelter: You can move from assistance into the labour market and retain additional resources to properly house yourselves, and an additional benefit for working people to support their children.

These are things never done before in this province, and they support Manitobans being involved in–

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Mr. McFadyen: Mr. Speaker, they underspent their budget to move people from welfare to work by half. The number of people collecting welfare has now gone up by 6 per cent to 60,000 people. Next door in Saskatchewan, they have 43,000 people on welfare. That is 17,000 fewer people than we have here in Manitoba. There are close to 40 per cent more people collecting welfare in Manitoba than there are next door in Saskatchewan.

After underspending the budget, after increasing the welfare numbers, why doesn't the Premier just admit that they failed to keep this promise, just like they failed to keep so many other promises?

Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, when we came into office, the members opposite had billboards asking people to phone a snitch line to complain about people being on welfare. They had no initiative to take people off welfare.

We have a Rewarding Work initiative to take people off social assistance, and, in the two years that that Rewarding Work initiative has been in place, we have assisted 4,000 people to access training and 1,200 people have left social assistance, and 500 people have been diverted from social assistance to our Rebound program, which is a training program to help people get the skills they need to re-enter in the labour market. That's why we have the lowest unemployment rate in the country; that's why we have the lowest youth unemployment rate in the country; and that is why we have reduced the number of people living in poverty.

More work needs to be done. During difficult times, we do not, for a second, rest complacent about the efforts that are needed, but I must say, the members opposite, their approach to this recession was to cut a half a billion dollars out of the budget, to cut people off social assistance and to cut education–

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Social Assistance Work Training Programs

Government Priority

Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): I find that answer just unbelievable. We have 4,000 people more on welfare; we have $15 million more being spent keeping people on welfare. We have a million dollars in a budget that was designed to get people into the workforce and off welfare that isn't being spent.

Mr. Speaker, can this government call that good management?

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Family Services and Consumer Affairs): Mr. Speaker, the members may want to–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: Order. Let's have some decorum. Order.

The honourable minister has the floor.

Mr. Mackintosh: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The members opposite want to look at one line. They should certainly look at the Rewarding Work initiative, Mr. Speaker, which is, of course, now represented in all of the lines in the employment and income assistance portfolio that we have. But I remind members opposite that, despite the recent recession and increases more very recently on the EIA caseload, the EIA caseload is less than it was today than in 2006, I'm advised, according to the latest note.

And I also want to remind members that, while there has been an increase in the–since 2008 in the recession, it's a lower growth than we've seen in Alberta, where there's been a 27 per cent increase, or BC, where there's a 26 per cent increase. That's because of Rewarding Work initiatives. We intend not to give just a fish, but a fishing rod to get people off of welfare into work.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Again, that's an unbelievable answer. Let me repeat: 4,000 more people on welfare, $15 million more being spent keeping those people on welfare, millions of dollars in a program that this government has touted to get people off of welfare, and that money hasn't been spent.

Mr. Speaker, is that what this minister and this government calls good management of taxpayers' dollars?

Mr. Mackintosh: Well, actually, this government has been investing in poverty reduction and social inclusion, unlike any government in the history of this province, through the ALL Aboard strategy, and, indeed, $950 million, almost $1 billion is going to Manitobans who are in need of a hand up to making sure that they are empowered, they are equipped, to go to work and be productive in that capacity.

And I know members opposite–I know what they do, what they say about the minimum wage. They don't want it increased. I also know what they say about poverty reduction initiatives. They just say, oh, just look at the tax act, that's all you've got to do, just look at personal exemption.

* (14:00)

Mr. Speaker, it takes a comprehensive approach, which the ALL Aboard strategy has brought to Manitobans, and it's making a difference. When we look, for example, under the Rewarding Work initiative, we've diverted 600 people from welfare right at the front door. We've got 3,000 people helped to get–

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Mrs. Mitchelson: Well, again, Mr. Speaker, a government that brags about putting $14 million into work incentives to get people off of welfare, then spends $7 million of that $14 million.

Mr. Speaker, common sense tells me, and all Manitobans, that with 4,000 people more on the welfare rolls today, $15 million increase in the budget on welfare, and letting money sit in a pot that should be spent on getting people off of welfare, can this minister stand up with any comfort to Manitobans and say that this is a common sense approach and a good use of taxpayers' dollars?

Mr. Mackintosh: Well, we know the member's legacy when it comes to welfare; read Miriam Toews, Mr. Speaker.

This government instead is investing in Manitobans to equip them to get off of welfare and that is why, for example, with the Get Ready! program, we've been able to strengthen the supports for people who go to school, and it used to be six months was all that was allowed for people to go to training and get supports. Now, it's two years and sometimes more for single parents.

Mr. Speaker, 3,000 people have been helped in training plans and have left welfare; 8,300 people have developed training programs as a result of that.

Job Connections is working with those that have very complex barriers to employment. It's been working with 730 people, 225 to education and training, 307 are working, 79 left welfare for work and other opportunities as well. Manitoba Works, 181 people have got jobs through that. The Rewarding Work volunteer benefit, over 400 persons with a disability are now out there getting rewarded for their volunteer efforts. That's the kind–

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Violent Crime

Reduction Strategy

Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, today we saw more evidence of what Manitobans already know and that's that under this soft-on-crime government, that violent crime is simply out of control.

The Winnipeg police annual report indicated today that violent crime has increased 14 per cent over last year and, yet, this Minister of Justice, in this very House, just a couple of days ago, said: No, violent crime is going down. Things are getting better.

Mr. Speaker, he's out of touch, he's out of steam, he's out of ideas and he's almost out of time. Why doesn't he just admit to Manitobans that the problem gets worse the longer he's there and he has no idea what to do about it, Mr. Speaker?

Hon. Andrew Swan (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I thank the member for the question because it allows me to do a few things.

First of all, to thank the Winnipeg Police Service for the work that their members do, keeping all of us in the city of Winnipeg safe, day in and day out.

And it also allows me to remind this House that I've also read the report, and it points out that, once again, the number of Criminal Code offences in the city of Winnipeg has gone down year to year. A further 1 per cent decline in 2009.

And I would also point out that crime has decreased by even greater numbers in certain areas. For those Winnipeggers living east of the Red River, crime down by 2 per cent. For those living in District 6, south of the Assiniboine River, crime down by 4 per cent. And for those Winnipeggers living in District 2, the St. James area, and much of the area that I'm privileged to represent in this Legislature, crime is actually down by 8 per cent, Mr. Speaker.

So, the member opposite should tell the whole story when he gets up and says things–

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Mr. Goertzen: We know that reported property crime is down because the police are so busy doing the work of the increased violent crime, that they don't have time, Mr. Speaker, and people aren't reporting property crime.

Violent crime is up 14 per cent year over year. Mr. Speaker, 11 years of failed announcements, 11 years of handing out Slurpees to violent criminals, 11 years of trying to advertise to gang members, and it's not working. Violent crime continues to go up. We already have the reputation of being the violent crime capital of Canada.

Why doesn't this minister just admit he has no idea, no intention and no plan on reducing violent crime in Winnipeg, Mr. Speaker?

Mr. Swan: Everything in this House should be an education. I want the member from Steinbach to know there's a very handy tool called CrimeStat that provides statistics from the City of Winnipeg Police Service each year, and we've had a look at those statistics. So far in 2010, CrimeStat lists 10 categories of serious crime, and I'm quite pleased to tell this House that, in fact, serious–of those 10 serious crimes are down another 6 per cent in 2010, including a 14 per cent decrease in robberies.

We already know, Mr. Speaker, that Manitoba, since 1999, has experienced one of the greatest decreases in robberies of any province in Canada. In fact, between 1999 and 2008, Manitoba experienced the third largest decrease in robberies among the provinces after only Québec and British Columbia. And, as the report states, the national decline in the rate of police-reported robberies from 10 years ago was largely the result to decreases in Québec, British Columbia and Manitoba.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker, those words only ring true in the NDP caucus. But Manitobans and Winnipeggers know that violent crime continues to go up. It was reported today in the Winnipeg police annual report. We know that after three failed ministers, after 11 years of phony announcements, the facts are there: the violent crime capital of Canada, the murder capital of Canada and violent crime has once again gone up 14 per cent.

Why doesn't this failed minister just acknowledge that he and his failed government have no idea how to deal with violent crime and as long as they're in government it's only going to get worse, Mr. Speaker?

Mr. Swan: Of course, as we've just come out of Domestic Violence Prevention Month in this–in the province of Manitoba, we know, of course, that domestic violence is a serious issue, and those numbers are included in those figures. Manitoba is a place where, due to the investments in police, due to the investments in victims services, due to the investments in our Crown attorneys, this province takes a very serious, serious approach, and Manitoba's hard line is noticed across the country. The 2008 Family Violence in Canada report notes that Manitoba is a pro-charging and pro-prosecution jurisdiction, which causes increases in arrest rates.

Now, the member opposite, as part of his $500‑million cut, would certainly like to cut those police officers, cut those domestic violence workers, cut those Crown attorneys and not have those crimes reported. We think those crimes should be reported. There should be interventions to keep women safe in their own homes, Mr. Speaker.

Football Stadium

Costs and Funding Options

Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, it's now been eight months–eight months–since the Premier started digging the hole at the University of Manitoba. It was eight months ago that he said he was going to get 'er done, and as we stand here today nothing is happening. The hole is there; we've got three different cost estimates. Why doesn't the Premier just admit he can't get 'er done, he ain't up to the job?

Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, let's remember the members opposite opposed the MTS Centre. They did everything they could to stop the MTS Centre. They've taken the same approach to the stadium. They've opposed it at every step of the way. All the partners are working: the City, the Province, the university, the Bombers, members of the community are all working to bring the project forward.

I am confident the project will proceed. It will proceed in such a way that it provides another 2,400 jobs inside of Manitoba. It will provide a facility that will be used year-round by the university, by the community, by, of course, the Bisons and the Bombers. It will provide–it will be a publicly owned facility available to all the people of Manitoba who want to use it.

The members opposite will oppose it. They will denigrate it every chance they get, just like the MTS Centre. We came through that controversy with a successful project; we will come through this controversy with a successful project as well.

Mr. McFadyen: Mr. Speaker, we want to get 'er done. We just have no confidence in his ability to get 'er done, that's the problem. In March he said he was going to get 'er done for 115–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: Order. Pretty hard to hear the questions and the answers. We have a lot of guests here today, and let's have a little respect and–for our guests and also for the institution that we're fortunate our constituents sent us to. So let's have a little decorum, please.

Mr. McFadyen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In March he said he was going to get 'er done for $115 million. At the beginning of November, he said he was going to get 'er done for $160 million. Today, it's reported by Gary Lawless that he's going to get 'er done for very close to $200 million, almost double eight months into the project. Eight months into the Empire State Building they were halfway through 51 storeys and eight months on the Empire State while we have here in Manitoba is a state of chaos.

* (14:10)

When's he going to get 'er done? Is he up for the job of getting her done, and when's he going to stop trying to blame everybody else for his inability to get 'er done?

Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, once again, members of the public should bear in mind that they opposed, and still oppose, the MTS Centre.

Members should bear in mind that they have never had a constructive proposal to address the stadium question. The stadium question will be addressed when all the partners have concluded their work. They know that it's going to move forward. Manitobans know it's going to move forward with the co-operation of everybody except the members opposite. It will move forward. It will be done, just like we're building additional wind power in Manitoba on Highway 75, which the members opposed; just like we're building new hydro dams, like the members opposed; just like we're going to protect a UNESCO World Heritage Site, like the members opposed; just like we're going to continue to improve the minimum wage, like the members opposed; just like we're going to protect water, like the members opposed.

We will move Manitoba forward. They will drag it back to the dark days when they were last in office.

Mr. McFadyen: Mr. Speaker, we've heard all this rhetoric before: Crocus is strong; we'll balance the budget; we'll end hallway medicine in six months; we'll get 'er done on the stadium; we'll get bipole done for $400 million, it's now at $4 billion.

Is it any wonder–[interjection] $4 billion–is it any wonder that Manitobans are losing confidence in this Premier's ability to get 'er done? Is it any wonder that they don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth?

Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, the member from Fort Whyte is the only person in Manitoba that believes we should cancel the converter stations for building Manitoba Hydro. Manitoba Hydro put 75–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: Order. I don't think we're setting a very good example today. We have a lot of students here, and I want to ask, once again, co-operation of members. This is time for questions and answers, and they come all the way down here to be able to hear them. And I'm sitting very close to all the members and I can barely hear them. [interjection] Order. And if there's a breach of a rule, I need to be able to hear it because you would expect me to make a ruling, but if I don't hear it, it'd be impossible to make a ruling if there is a breach of one. And, also, for our guests in the gallery that are trying to hear the questions and the answers, let's have a little more respect please.

Mr. Selinger: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The converter stations are essential to the well‑being of supplying power in Manitoba. Mr. Speaker, 75 per cent of the power–75 per cent of the power–now goes through one converter station called Dorsey. Manitoba Hydro, since 1997, has been calling for additional converter stations to protect the Manitoba economy and our export markets. The members opposite ignored that because they were busy privatizing the telephone system at the time.

We are building converter stations on the recommendation of Manitoba Hydro to protect the multi-billion dollar economy we have in Manitoba, to protect our exports which will generate $20 billion of revenue over the next 20 years.

Members opposite, once again, want to be reckless. They want to roll the dice on the future of our electricity in this province. We won't allow them to do that, Mr. Speaker.

Shoal Lakes

Water Level Increase

Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, concerns about the rising Shoal lakes continue to rise. Roads are closed, producers have lost thousands of acres of farmland and homes are threatened. There is no outlet, a scenario very similar to that of the Devils Lake situation. Since 2001, I've been asking questions of this government about the long-term plans to address this very serious issue. This government has studied the data and options, such as building an outlet, buying out affected landowners or storing in water.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister: When is this government going to take action with Shoal lakes? How much longer do people have to wait?

Hon. Christine Melnick (Minister of Water Stewardship): Mr. Speaker, we're very concerned about the very difficult situation around the Shoal lakes. When we were up there on a caucus retreat this summer many Cabinet ministers met with many of the people from around Shoal lakes. We talked to them.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: Let's have a little co-operation, please. The honourable minister is trying to answer the question and we need to be able to hear what she has to say. So let's have some co-operation. Let's have some decorum here.

The honourable minister, please.

Ms. Melnick: Mr. Speaker, we take the issue very seriously. It would be helpful if members opposite did as well.

We have met with Shoal lakes' mayors and reeves during AMM. I have put together a special meeting in the next week or so to meet with them. There was a KGS study that was presented to all involved municipalities. We're working with them. We need them to come to us with one way to move forward, and we will work with them as well.

Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, buying out the affected producers will only be a temporary fix because it doesn't face–fix the fact that the lake is still rising. We need to draw down the lakes, not only for the protection of the local residents, but also for the protection of the city of Winnipeg. There are concerns that the water will rise so high it will come down the Grassmere and Sturgeon Creek drains on its own.

Mr. Speaker, public meetings have been held. Municipal councils–and they all agree that action must be taken in order to deal with this situation.

Will the minister agree today to draw down the lakes?

Ms. Melnick: Mr. Speaker, again, we are meeting with municipalities. We are looking at all the options.

It's important to note that since 2007 almost $26 million in financial support have been provided to the producers of Shoal lakes through various farm assistance programs, and I thank the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Struthers) for that.

MIT continues to monitor the water situation on the affected areas and has allotted $110,000 to upgrade the northern section of No. 518 and $380,000 to improve PR 229.

We are working with the community on many levels, Mr. Speaker, and we will continue to work with the community on many levels. They understand this is a long-standing issue that has to be dealt with very delicately.

Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, the First Minister stated recently that he's prepared to help drawing down Devils Lake in North Dakota. We have a very similar problem right here in Manitoba with the Shoal lakes. Roads are under water, homes are threatened, agriculture producers been badly affected and the local economy is suffering. The Province is moving forward on the Devils Lake file, but isn't moving forward on the Shoal lakes file.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the government again: When can we expect them to take action on this Shoal lakes issue? We need leadership. Will the First Minister do something now?

Ms. Melnick: Mr. Speaker, we continue to work on this; the people who aren't are members opposite. It's almost the end of the third week in the House and this is their first question on it.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: May I remind certain members that when the Speaker is standing that all members should be seated and that the Speaker should be heard in silence.

The honourable First Minister has the floor.

Ms. Melnick: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd also like to inform the House–

Mr. Speaker: I mean the honourable Minister of Water Stewardship.

Ms. Melnick: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd also like to inform the House that the producers around Shoal lakes are also eligible for the $9.8-million home, business and flood mitigation program that was announced some months ago. The member opposite would do better to talk to his folks, make sure they know of the assistance that is available and be part of the solution instead of always being part of the problem.

Thomas Lake

Structure Removal Order

Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Water Stewardship.

Water in the lakes at Thomas Lake, at Salt lakes, at Jackfish Lake, at Sandy Lake, Lake of the Prairies, continues to rise, Mr. Speaker. And I haven't seen the NDP caucus out there for a retreat, but perhaps they would like to go out there and perhaps acquaint themselves with the situations there.

But, Mr. Speaker, specifically at Thomas Lake: Under an Emergency Measures proclamation, the municipality was allowed to put a structure to allow water to flow out of Thomas Lake. This saved cottages, it saved residences, it saved farmland. That was a gated structure.

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I want to ask the minister why she is demanding that that structure be taken out now by January the 1st, when in fact we're looking at potential of huge flooding in the spring, Mr. Speaker.

Hon. Christine Melnick (Minister of Water Stewardship): Mr. Speaker, it's my understanding that, in fact, lake levels have gone down to a level that is not threatening properties at this time, and they have been down for almost five or six months. We have been working very carefully and very closely with the community. The member opposite should be better informed as to what's happening in his own backyard.

RM of Strathclair

Environmental Licence and Fine Levy

Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Well, Mr. Speaker, I do know that this minister refused to meet with the municipality during the AMM convention. I do know that she is riding roughshod over the municipality because the municipality put the structure in a few hours earlier than the Emergency Measures order came into effect. She levied a fine against the municipality–the first time ever in this province. And now she's demanding that they pay for an environmental licence and an environmental study where the Shoal lakes–the government is paying for them. This is a provincial water body.

I want to ask why the municipality of Strathclair is being forced to pay the bill when other jurisdictions are not paying that bill?

Hon. Christine Melnick (Minister of Water Stewardship): Mr. Speaker, again, misinformation in the House–

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Ms. Melnick: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I applaud your valiant efforts.

Again, there's misinformation in the House. There is a process in place when there is a change to a waterway to get an environmental licence. We have encouraged Strathclair to get that licence. This has been a long-standing issue; it's been several months now. Again, instead of blocking, instead of being part of the problem, the member opposite should be supporting the process that ensures that water will flow through this province in a responsible way.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

I'm going to ask the House for a recess so I can meet with the House leaders in my office, please.

This is just getting a little too out of hand. I can't hear questions. I can't hear, and no one is listening to the instructions. I'm taking a recess, and I'd like the House leaders to please meet me in my office.

The House recessed at 2:22 p.m.

____________

The House resumed at 2:31 p.m.

Oral Questions

(Continued)

Mr. Speaker: Eight minutes and 41 seconds left, so we'll resume question period.

Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, we know that, through her displays in this House, this minister has continually shown how arrogant she is when it comes to issues that relate to municipalities, and issues that relate to municipalities having difficulties with flooding issues.

Mr. Speaker, the municipality of Strathclair asked for a meeting with the minister last year during the AMM convention. They were refused. This year, they asked for another meeting with the Minister of Water Stewardship and, apparently, the paperwork was lost so they couldn't be scheduled in. This was told to me directly by the municipal officials who attended the conference. In addition, this is the first municipality that has been fined by a minister for starting a–construction work on a structure before, in fact, their licence had taken place. Only by hours, and they were doing that to save cottages, save residences and save farmland.

Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the minister: Why is she riding roughshod over this municipality on the western side of the province?

Ms. Melnick: Mr. Speaker, it's rather shocking that a member of this House would openly counsel that people in this province wouldn't respect the laws and regulations of the province. But I suppose it's to be expected from a party that would remove all water legs–all water regs, and that would allow urine and E. coli to flow through the waters of Manitoba. That's the agenda of members opposite; let anybody do whatever they want, not plan, not care for the environment, not be responsible for the waterways of this province, and we've seen it again today.

Lake Winnipeg

Phosphorus Level Reduction Targets

Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, Manitobans have become all too familiar with wanting to unwind at the cabin, only to find their lake covered in algal blooms and completely unswimmable. At the Red Zone conference last light–night and the Lake Winnipeg Basin Summit yesterday and today, there were increasing references to Lake Winnipeg as an international environmental catastrophe.

Mr. Speaker, enough of the failed words from the Premier. I am hoping that the next thing he's going to say is give us the actual targets that he's going to use to reduce phosphorus and decrease the number of algal blooms, not another reference to a failed initiative.

Will the Premier stand up and give us the targets that he set for Lake Winnipeg, and for the reduction of phosphorus and the reduction of algal blooms?

Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Thank you for the question. I understand the conference is proceeding with a lot of excellent input from many of the experts and citizens of Manitoba that are concerned about the future of Lake Winnipeg.

We–as the member knows, we have an interim target of 10 per cent reduction, and now we are consulting with the experts on what the additional target can be and the means to achieve it. And the member knows that we announced a project yesterday, a wetlands project, which will take significant amounts of phosphorus and nitrogen out of the system. It'll also produce biofuels. These kinds of innovative approach, what the members of the conference are calling the bioeconomy, is a new way to look at how to address problems on Lake Winnipeg in terms of algae blooms and nutrification, and at the same time recover some of those things that are going into Lake Winnipeg which are negative for Lake Winnipeg, but which can have a positive impact, like phosphorus, on–in terms of the productivity of the land.

So I think the conference is trying to forge a new way to address these kinds of problems. I look forward to the outcomes of their deliberations, and we will take them into account as we set our new targets.

Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, it was known, as I raised in the House three years ago, that the targets of 10 per cent was hopelessly inadequate in terms of reducing the algal blooms in Lake Winnipeg.

The spin, indifference and mismanagement of this government continues. Manitobans are ashamed of the high levels of phosphorus getting into our lakes. They're ashamed that Lake Winnipeg is an environmental catastrophe of international proportions as a result of the NDP inaction.

Mr. Speaker, the blood of Lake Winnipeg will be on this government, who has failed to act and failed to prevent the problems of the algal blooms.

Can the Premier now stand up and tell us what his new targets are going to be?

Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, I can tell you that we have taken 95 per cent of the recommendations that were made to us by the Lake Winnipeg Stewardship Board and have implemented them, including the idea of restricting new hog barns to be developed. That is a moratorium we brought in. Members opposite, the official opposition, opposed that. We have brought in tougher regulations for septic fields. We have put in more inspectors. We have removed phosphates from cleaning products, an initiative which has now gone Canada-wide. We have done a large number of measures to reduce the amount of nutrients that go into that lake, including things like a Riparian Tax Credit, to protect the water, the boundaries between the lakes and the land. All of these measures have made a contribution to reducing phosphorus into the lake. Other measures will be coming forward. We will work with the people that have these ideas on how to do it in a responsible way.

The member opposite is correct; we do need to do more. The leader–the members of the opposition, the official opposition, continually opposed every initiative we've taken to protect the lake.

I look for the member of River Heights to find support for us–

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, and the algal blooms continue to go. Indeed, under the NDP's watch, we've seen algal blooms reach 160 kilometres long–160 kilometres long. The sheer size and scale of this catastrophe evolving on Lake Winnipeg, the 10th largest lake in the world, makes it one of the largest environmental catastrophes anywhere on the planet.

Mr. Speaker, the writing is on the wall. This government can't protect the poor. This government can't protect the sick. This government is not protecting our lakes, and in the absence of hard targets on Lake Winnipeg, which the Premier still refuses to give us, we're not going to make much progress. When is the Premier going to give us the targets?

Mr. Selinger: Again, Mr. Speaker, we brought in interim targets. We brought in several very important measures to reduce nutrification in the lake, and those measures have made a difference. Additional measures are being examined as we speak, which is why I made the announcement yesterday with respect to the marshlands and how we can enhance the role of the marshlands in purifying the lake and taking toxic inputs out of the lake, and at the same time using the marshlands as a source of products that can be beneficial on, for example, farming.

The member opposite is correct. We need to do more, which is exactly why we supported this conference and asked the IISD to initiate this conference.

Members opposite, the members of the official opposition, have done everything they can to block this. They have said they will repeal The Water Protection Act. They have said they oppose the moratorium on additional hog barns in sensitive areas. They have not supported our initiatives on septic fields. They have not supported initiatives on treating sewage more adequately.

The member from River Heights needs to work with us to get the opposition on board to protect Lake Winnipeg.

Small Business Tax

Elimination

Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): Mr. Speaker, today is tax freedom day for Manitoba's small business, because today we are the first province to eliminate its tax on small business, and I'm disappointed that the members of the opposition didn't support this.

And my question is to the Minister of Finance: Can she tell the House what the elimination of this tax would mean for small business in Manitoba and for the–to the overall Manitoba economy?

* (14:40)

Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minister of Finance): Well, Mr. Speaker, when we came into office the small tax business was 8 per cent in this province. It was among the highest in the country. We have taken steps that today we have brought that level down to zero.

Mr. Speaker, this means money in small businesses' hands. Small businesses have the opportunity to invest in their communities, in their businesses, in their employees; all things the members opposite disagree with. If the members opposite had had their way and passed their motion to bring–to cut the deficit by $500 million in this year, we would have seen this reduction eliminated and we would have seen many other taxes increased, if the members opposite had–

Mr. Speaker: Order. Time for oral questions has expired.

Members' Statements

River East Kodiaks Girls' Volleyball Team

Ms. Erna Braun (Rossmere): Mr. Speaker, I wish to congratulate the new AAAA varsity girls' provincial high school volleyball champions, the River East Kodiaks.

As an alumna of River East Collegiate and a former Kodiak, I'm especially delighted by their victory.

The River East Kodiaks defeated the Lord Selkirk Royals in three straight sets to win the provincial championship. Despite the sweep, it was a hard-won victory as all three of the sets could have gone to either team. The last set was especially close. It was deadlocked 12-12 at one point. However, the Kodiak coach, Megan Bradshaw, was able to refocus her team, allowing them to regain their composure and win the final set.

The Kodiaks advanced to the provincial championship after defeating the Crocus Plains Plainsmen of Brandon last Thursday in another hard‑fought matchup. During that encounter, the River East Kodiaks beat the Plainsmen three sets to one.

The appearance of the River East girls' volleyball team in the championship game came as a bit of a surprise to some, including Coach Bradshaw. This was mostly due to injuries sustained by many of the players as little as a month ago. However, the coach was confident that if all the girls' injuries would heal in time and she could get the whole team back to being healthy again, that they would have a good shot at the title.

* (14:40)

In addition to winning the provincial championship, the River East girls' varsity volleyball team had two of their players named to the tournament all-star team: Shanlee McLennan and Sam Dubicki. The tournament MVP was also a player from their team, Crystal Mulder.

Congratulations again to the River East Kodiaks varsity girls' volleyball team. May you enjoy sharing this victory with the rest of your school, your family and friends. You can be very proud of your accomplishments.

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to ask leave to have the names of the new AAAA provincial champions, River East Kodiaks varsity girls' volleyball team and coaching staff included with this statement in Hansard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker: Is there leave to include all the names that are on the varsity team to be recorded in Hansard? [Agreed]

Oksana Banash, Kara Bodie, Lauren Campbell, Caleigh Dobie, Samantha Dubicki, Emily Loewen, Shanlee McLennan, Crystal Mulder, Andrea Nazeravich, Kacie Olbrecht, Kelsey Wall, Coach Megan Bradshaw, Assistant Coach Sheri Doyle

PTH 15 and Highway 206 Traffic Lights Need

Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): Mr. Speaker, for a number of years residents of Dugald have been petitioning for the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation (Mr. Ashton) to install traffic signals at the intersection of PTH 15 and Highway 206 in Dugald. Although the minister has agreed that traffic volumes at the intersection exceed those needed to warrant the installation of traffic signals, his current plan for the intersection does not suit the needs of the community. Hundreds of concerned citizens of the Springfield constituency have voiced their unease to me regarding the Minister of Transportation's current plan surrounding the PTH 15 and Highway 206 intersection.

In the past, the Minister of Transportation had said that his department would begin consultations by, and I quote, holding an open house with area stakeholders to gather information for the development of a long-term plan and an implementation strategy. The long-term plan would then be shared with business, developers, landowners, municipalities and other stakeholders to facilitate the planning of any further development along the corridor. End of quote.

Before the Minister of Transportation–Infrastructure and Transportation implements his plan, residents, business and other concerned Manitobans are asking this minister to hold public consultations in Dugald. During this process, the minister would be able to present design options and rationale for the planned changes to the PTH 15 and Highway 206 intersection and also speak to concerns regarding the planned hard median.

The Manitoba department of highways has recognized this intersection in Dugald as a hazard for many years. Long lineups and traffic congestion puts the safety of motorists and children at risk, and this issue cannot be ignored any longer.

Mr. Speaker, residents and businesses of Springfield, including Jim McCarthy, reeve of the RM of Springfield, Garry Brown, councillor of the RM of Springfield, Dick Vlaming, fire chief, and numerous school bus drivers have all come forward to petition the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation to review his plan for the PTH 15 and Highway 206 intersection.

They're requesting that the minister recognize the value of the businesses affected by the proposed changes, as well as the lives and well-being of the students, seniors and citizens of Manitoba. I hope that the minister gives serious consideration to their request. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to table these petitions with over 600 signatures on them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

CEDA Pathways to Education Program

Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Mr. Speaker, on October 19th, 2010, an exciting event took place on Selkirk Avenue. This fall marked the official opening of the first CEDA Pathways to Education program in western Canada. Participants included the Premier (Mr. Selinger), Rob Johnston, RBC regional president, Samuel Duboc, chairman of Pathways to Education Canada, and Darlene Klyne, director of CEDA Pathways. The successful Pathways program helps inner-city youth obtain the best education possible.

Pathways, partnering with the Community Education Development Association, CEDA, works with students in grades 9 to 12 in North Point Douglas, Lord Selkirk Park and William Whyte neighbourhoods. The goal is to raise graduation rates and inform youth about their post-secondary options, helping to improve graduation rates in a part of the city where students often must overcome significant challenges to complete high school.

This program, which has been extremely effective in other parts of Canada, provides extra support to help students succeed. The Pathways program helps inner-city students in four areas: advocacy, tutoring, mentoring and financial support. Ninety-four youth, most of them in grade 9, already fill the former bakery on Selkirk Avenue where Pathways is located. The program is looking to expand into a semi-permanent learning centre that the kids can take ownership in.

Pathways to Education recognizes that a holistic approach is the best way to encourage the skills and talent that already exist in a community. Pathways is one of a number of programs that our government has introduced to improve graduation rates across the province. Over the past 10 years, Manitoba's graduation rate has climbed significantly from 72 per cent in 2001 to over 80 per cent in 2009. Pathways is part of our government's effort to ensure that young Manitobans finish high school and are able to seize the future of their choice.

Mr. Speaker, our neighbourhoods are proud to welcome Pathways into the fold.

Baydak Lake Boardwalk and Interpretive Trail

Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Minnedosa): I'd like to take this opportunity, in partnership with the member for Russell (Mr. Derkach), to congratulate the municipality of Silver Creek and the participating volunteers who [inaudible] realize a very special interpretive trail, the Baydak Lake Trail and Boardwalk. I had the privilege of attending the official ribbon-cutting ceremony of the interpretive trail on Friday, July 23rd, 2010.

Over 60 people attended the ceremony, including representatives from the various groups which worked together to get the project started: descendants of the Baydak family, Parks Canada, the RM of Silver Creek, Lake of the Prairies Conservation District, Silver Beach Cottage Owners Association and the Riding Mountain Biosphere Reserve.

The interpretive trail was open for the remaining days of the summer to the public and will be a great opportunity for school-aged children to visit with their classroom. It is trails and outdoor interpretive programs like this that allow Manitobans to connect with the beautiful province we all love and share.

This group worked together in order to create guided trail signs to reflect and display the cultural history and natural species in the area. The Baydak Lake area is full of interesting stories from the past, including logging, haying, berry picking and was once home to a large Boy Scout camp in the 1940s.

My family actually had a cottage built in the area in the 1950s, so this is a very special place for my family as well.

The opening of the interpretive trail is so important to local residents and visitors alike and is a great way to preserve the history and natural vegetation that thrives in this area.

I was so pleased to see so many Baydak family members at the ceremony. This trail will remain an important place of reflection for them when they return to visit family and friends in the area.

Once again, Mr. Speaker, I would like to address my congratulations and those of the member for Russell (Mr. Derkach) to all of the partnering groups who worked diligently to ensure the trail was opened this summer. Thank you.

Multiple Sclerosis Liberation Treatment

Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak to the need for a clinical trial in Manitoba of the liberation therapy for multiple sclerosis. There's now very considerable evidence from around the world of problems in the veins draining the brains in individuals with multiple sclerosis, and there's very considerable evidence of the effectiveness of the liberation therapy in the treatment of patients with multiple sclerosis.

It is true that much of the evidence comes from the individual stories of those with multiple sclerosis who've had the liberation therapy in other countries. I've received many testimonials from people who've been through the liberation therapy in such fashion. What is remarkable is that many of them, as soon as they awake from anesthesia, are able to move their limbs in ways that they have not been able to for some time. Indeed, the stories of people who have been through the treatment and are now able to walk again–where they could not and never expected to walk again–is absolutely remarkable.

Mr. Speaker, when new ideas for Rh disease were developed, they were introduced and made available to Manitobans in a clinical trial. When there were new ideas to treat newborns with respiratory distress syndrome, these ideas were made available and introduced in Manitoba to Manitoba children in a clinical trial. When there were new ideas for treating children or adults with cancer, these were introduced for Manitobans and made available to Manitobans through clinical trials. With multiple sclerosis, we should similarly make available treatment here in Manitoba through clinical trials.

I'll give you a short story from a woman who wrote to me recently who has a daughter who's been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, and she, like many others, simply can't afford to go to another country for this procedure. She's been off work for about two years, costing a lot in long-term disability. Her multiple sclerosis medications, once her deductible is met, Manitoba Health is paying for that. Her injections alone for a month cost $1,400.

How can the government afford all this for MS patients but not afford to start doing clinical trials and make this treatment available for Manitobans in Manitoba so that people, like this daughter, can have the treatment here.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

House Business

Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader, on House business.

Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker, I think you'll find agreement to proceed to debate on second reading of Bill 2 and then Bill 4. [interjection] So I would suggest that we go to bill–debate on second reading of Bill 2 and then Bill 4.

Mr. Speaker: Okay, the order of business will be Bill 2 and, if we complete it, then we'll move on to Bill 4.

Debate on Second Readings

Bill 2–The City of Winnipeg Charter Amendment Act
(Winnipeg Police Service Auxiliary Cadets)

Mr. Speaker: Resume debate on second reading of Bill 2, The City of Winnipeg Charter Amendment Act (Winnipeg Police Service Auxiliary Cadets), standing in the name of the honourable member for Lac du Bonnet.

What is the will of the House? The honourable member for Lac du Bonnet?

Mr. Gerald Hawranik (Lac du Bonnet): Yes, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to put just a few brief words on the record with respect to Bill 2, and I know that the Winnipeg police chief has been kind of anxious to get the–this bill in front of the Legislature and certainly debated here in the Legislature, and I'd certainly like to hear about the bill, particularly at committee, particularly if there's going to be any presenters at committee which, hopefully, will be Monday night.

I know that the police chief is quite anxious to deal with that bill because a number of cadets have already been trained and they're ready to go and we, too, on this side of the House, we support the bill, and we would encourage its passage today.

Mr. Speaker: House ready for the question?

Some Honourable Members: Question.

Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is Bill 2, The City of Winnipeg Charter Amendment Act (Winnipeg Police Service Auxiliary Cadets).

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed]

Bill 4–The Retail Businesses Holiday Closing Amendment Act

Mr. Speaker: Okay, we'll now move on to Bill 4, The Retail Businesses Holiday Closing Amendment Act, standing in the name of the honourable member for Pembina.

Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the minister for the briefing that we got on Bill 4 and for the work that was done in respect to this bill. It does as it says: It enables businesses to be open on the day when a Sunday falls on Boxing Day, so that is something that the retailers have been asking for.

My big concern was that there was going to be, I guess, dialogue between the employees and the employer regarding the working on Sunday, and I have been assured by the minister that that has been looked after, that there is–they're not mandated to work if they choose not to.

The other thing is that I did refer to, and to the minister when we had our briefing, was the fact that it was '96 or '97, I believe, that we had hearings regarding Sunday opening, and it was interesting how the majority of the presenters were employees and they were simply asking for one day in the week that they could call family day and did not want to be forced to being employed on that day, and so, again, I am assured by the minister that that will be taken into consideration.

The other thing that I agree with in this bill also is the fact that those who presently do not have Sunday shopping will not be forced to go that route. It will be under the jurisdiction of the individual municipalities to make that decision, and I believe that's the way we should continue to do it, that each jurisdiction be allowed to make that decision, and they, of course, are the ones who have a feel and the pulse of the community.

So, with those few words, Mr. Speaker, I would say that we should move to committee.

Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question?

Some Honourable Members: Yes.

Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is Bill 4, The Retail Businesses Holiday Closing Amendment Act.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed]

House Business

Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader, on further House business.

Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker, first I'd like to announce that at 4 o'clock tomorrow, December 2nd, the House will be considering a condolence motion for Edward Charles Mandrake, the former member for Assiniboia.

Mr. Speaker: Okay, it's been announced that tomorrow at 4 p.m., we will be doing condolence motion for Mr. Mandrake at 4 p.m. tomorrow.

The honourable Government House Leader, on further House business.

Ms. Howard: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I wonder if you'd ask the House if there's leave to proceed to second reading on Bill 12 which we introduced today.

Mr. Speaker: Is there leave of the House to deal second reading on Bill 12? [Agreed]

SECOND READINGS

Bill 12–The Highway Traffic Amendment and Drivers and Vehicles Amendment Act

Hon. Andrew Swan (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister for Healthy Living, Youth and Seniors (Mr. Rondeau), that Bill 12, The Highway Traffic Amendment and Drivers and Vehicles Amendment Act; Loi modifiant le Code de la route et la Loi sur les conducteurs et les véhicules, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House.

Motion presented.

Mr. Swan: I'm very pleased to have an opportunity to speak to this bill this afternoon. I appreciate the ability to move ahead and open debate this afternoon. I know that we will have the opportunity to discuss the bill in detail at the committee stage, and certainly I'll provide my critic a full briefing on this bill. There are some important points I'd like to bring to the attention of all honourable members on Bill 12.

First of all, Mr. Speaker, this bill responds to a need to ensure that impaired drivers do not escape The Highway Traffic Act impaired driving–driver's licence sanctions just because they choose to operate a different mode of transportation while impaired. While of course the provincial government has jurisdiction to legislate regarding vehicles on our roads, we don't have the ability to legislate regarding vessels, boats, airplanes and railways.

Currently, in Manitoba, a person can be charged with a Criminal Code impaired driving offence if he or she is operating a motor vehicle, vessel, aircraft, or railway equipment while his or her ability to do so is impaired by alcohol or a drug, if he or she is driving over .08 per cent or if he or she refuses to provide police with a breath or blood sample. However, Manitoba's provincial impaired driving sanctions do not apply to persons who operate a vessel, aircraft or railway equipment while impaired because, unlike the federal government, provincial governments cannot regulate operation of any of these three types of other vehicles. The result is that unless police detain those persons in custody, there's actually an imminent road safety risk, that someone could drive a motor vehicle shortly after being charged and processed under the Criminal Code for impaired operation of a vessel, aircraft or railway equipment. This bill would address that concern. It would also protect the public by extending The Highway Traffic Act motor vehicle driver's licence sanctions, including short-term roadside driver's licence suspensions to all of the modes of transportation that can give rise to an impaired driving charge under the Criminal Code.

* (15:00)

Secondly, Mr. Speaker, at the present time The Highway Traffic Act provides for a 24-hour driver's licence suspension for driving a motor vehicle with a blood alcohol concentration of .05 per cent or higher, failing a physical co-ordination test, refusing either a demand to provide a breath or blood sample or physical co-ordination test demand or being too impaired to respond to a demand, otherwise known as gross impairment.

Repeat violators must also undergo a mandatory Addictions Foundation of Manitoba or AFM assessment and intervention if necessary, or face an indefinite driver's licence suspension if they do not comply with the assessment or intervention requirements.

Drivers who record a blood alcohol level over .08 per cent or who refuse to comply with a breath, blood or physical co-ordination test demand, will also receive a three-month motor vehicle driver's licence suspension, and may also have the vehicle they were driving impounded for at least 30 days. However, at present, Mr. Speaker, the three-month suspension does not take effect for seven days because The Highway Traffic Act, as it presently stands, requires that drivers be granted a seven-day driving permit between the end of their 24-hour roadside suspension and the start of their three‑month suspension. Drivers who receive a three‑month suspension may appeal that suspension, which would involve the Registrar of Motor Vehicles reviewing the grounds for the suspension and determining if it should be upheld or overturned.

Mr. Speaker, this bill will also provide for greater tiered short-term suspensions of driver's licences. Although repeat offenders must comply with the mandatory AFM requirements, if they're found driving over .05 or in the other examples I've set out, the fact remains their immediate roadside driver's licence suspension, at present, would not increase beyond 24 hours, regardless of the number of violations that they may commit. Other provinces have now started to implement tiered driver's licence suspension for repeat offenders, which means the length of driver's licence suspension increases for every new and additional violation.

This bill, therefore, would update Manitoba's Highway Traffic Act to introduce tiered roadside suspensions of 24 hours for a first violation, 15 days for a second violation, 30 days for a third violation and 60 days for a subsequent violation within a 10‑year period. The window for determining when a driver is a repeat offender and is subject to the mandatory AFM requirements will also now be fixed at 10 years.

This bill will also allow the suspended driver to challenge the grounds for the suspension to the Registrar of Motor Vehicles and, if the suspension is upheld, to apply to the Licence Suspension Appeal Board for a conditional restricted driver's licence, should the suspension result in undue hardship, such as job loss.

Another element of this bill is the elimination of seven-day driving permits. As I've already mentioned, Mr. Speaker, The Highway Traffic Act currently provides that drivers who are suspended for driving over .08 or refusing to comply with the breath, blood or other demand, are granted a seven‑day driving permit between the end of the 24‑hour roadside suspension and the start of their three-month driver's licence suspension. Based on the advice we have from police, from groups such as Mothers Against Drunk Driving and others, we want to eliminate the seven-day permit in order to respond to these concerns that it's really inconsistent with the new tiered short-term suspension changes. It is confusing for drivers and police to be suspended, get your licence back and be suspended again. And it actually makes it more difficult to enforce Manitoba's highway traffic laws.

It's our view, Mr. Speaker, that it's inconsistent, that the goal of ensuring that drivers who are a road safety risk are removed from the road and has limited value as a result of other Highway Traffic Act provisions that require the vehicle used by the impaired driver to be immediately seized and impounded for at least 30 days.

Mr. Speaker, as I've indicated, we will be able to discuss this bill in more detail at the committee stage. So, just before concluding, I would like to add that, of course, Manitoba has been a leader at different measures within our jurisdiction to combat impaired driving and the difficulty of people who continue to drink and drive, endangering themselves, passengers and the general public in our community. And I think we could all be very pleased that, back in 2006, MADD issued a report card which looked at the various jurisdictions across Canada to determine how strong their approach is. In 2006, Manitoba was awarded the first-ever A grade by Mothers Against Drunk Driving. In 2009, Manitoba received a similar grade, and we are one of the two best provinces across the country at our measures to take on impaired driving.

I'm quite satisfied, Mr. Speaker, that this bill will be welcomed by everyone in this province who's concerned about impaired driving. Certainly, we've had too many tragedies where people have gotten behind the wheel when they should not, and it's our belief that this bill will take another important step at making our roads and our highways safer.

So I certainly look forward to hearing what other members of this Legislature have to say about this bill, and I do look forward to this moving ahead to committee and it moving into law as soon as possible.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the member for Morris (Mrs. Taillieu), that debate now be adjourned.

Motion agreed to.

House Business

Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader, on further House business.

Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker. First, I'd like to announce that the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development will meet on Monday, December 6, at 6 p.m. to deal with the following bills: Bill 2, The City of Winnipeg Charter Amendment Act (Winnipeg Police Service Auxiliary Cadets); Bill 4, The Retail Businesses Holiday Closing Amendment Act; and Bill 10, The Employment Standards Code Amendment Act (Leave for Citizenship Ceremonies).

Mr. Speaker: It's been announced that the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development will meet on Monday, December 6, at 6 p.m. to deal with the following bills: Bill 2, The City of Winnipeg Charter Amendment Act (Winnipeg Police Auxiliary Cadets); Bill 4, The Retail Businesses Holiday Closing Amendment Act; Bill 10, The Employment Standards Code Amendment Act (Leave for Citizenship Ceremonies).

The honourable Government House Leader, on further House business.

Ms. Howard: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I believe we can now move to second reading on Bill 11.

Bill 11–The Planning Amendment Act

Mr. Speaker: Okay, we will now deal with second reading of Bill 11, The Planning Amendment Act.

Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Local Government): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister responsible for Entrepreneurship, Training and Trade (Mr. Bjornson), that Bill 11, The Planning Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur l'aménagement du territoire, be now read a second time and referred to a committee of this House.

Motion presented.

Mr. Lemieux: Mr. Speaker, this particular amendment that we're bringing forward is primarily from the Clean Environment Commission's report to government with regard to the technical review committees that are in Manitoba and take place in Manitoba, and looking at livestock operations of 300 units or more. And this piece of legislation enables information being posted by municipalities on the information given to them on livestock operations that are going to be coming forward to them. This piece of legislation is–provide transparency and to be more comprehensive, quite frankly, on what the technical review committees are dealing with. Often, information is brought forward to municipalities, who have the ultimate decision and will continue to do so, to do land use planning, and I just wanted to make a few comments with regard to that.

As I stated, I am pleased, Mr. Speaker, to report continued progress on implementation and recommendations of the Clean Environment Commission. Today we're taking the next step in our action plan. Specifically, we propose to amend The Planning Act to authorize the Lieutenant-Governor-in-Council to make regulations to improve the technical review process for new or extended livestock operations involving 300 or more animal units.

This amendment to The Planning Act is to ensure the Lieutenant-Governor-in-Council has clear authority to make regulations respecting the process and procedures to be followed by the Technical Review Committee, the TRC, when reviewing the application for a large-scale livestock operation under section 113 of The Planning Act.

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The Clean Environment Commission report on environmental sustainability recommended a new review process under section 113 of The Planning Act proposed for large-scale livestock operations. As previously mentioned, Mr. Speaker, I mentioned that a comprehensive site assessment for all livestock operations involving 300 or more units–that's the first step in the process; an opportunity for the public and government departments to review and comment on the site assessment; a summary report by the Technical Review Committee that addresses the comments raised in the government and public review; and a local input prior to the conditional use hearing by the municipal council. Why? Well, the regulations are needed to authorize the Technical Review Committee to obtain additional information from the applicant and the public respecting a proposed livestock operation and set out the process to be followed by the Technical Review–Committee–sorry–in reviewing an application.

The Clean Environment Commission recommendations for a new TRC process have been discussed with representatives from major livestock producer groups, including Manitoba Pork Council, Dairy Farmers of Manitoba and Manitoba Cattle Producers, Keystone Agricultural Producers and Manitoba Turkey Producers. Producers told us of the need for a timely review of proposals, no additional cost to producers and a need to manage the public review process to ensure fairness. The technical review process only applies to large-scale livestock operations involving 300 or more animal units. An animal unit is the number of animals of a particular category of livestock that will excrete 75 kilograms of total nitrogen in a 12-month period.

For example, there's dairy cattles–smaller animals like roosters and chickens and broiler turkeys produce far less as a comparison. The proposed regulation will give proponents of large livestock operations greater certainty respecting the information requirements and the procedures to be followed by the Technical Review Committee in reviewing an application for a proposed livestock operation.

I look forward to discussing Bill 11 in more detail in committee, Mr. Speaker, and I certainly look forward to sitting down with my critic for Local Government as well as members of the opposition if they wish to go through this. As mentioned, it'll provide more clarity, more transparency. It'll be more comprehensive, so everyone is assured when someone comes forward to a municipality who has the authority to look at local land use even though government still retains the responsibility for the environmental concerns.

We look forward to moving this forward, Mr. Speaker, and to committee and being able to discuss Bill 11 in more detail. Thank you very much. Merci.

Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): I move, seconded by the member for Portage la Prairie (Mr. Faurschou), that debate now be adjourned.

Motion agreed to.

House Business

Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader, on House business.

Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker, I suggest we move now to Bill 3, 8 and 9, in that order.

Mr. Speaker: Okay. We'll resume debate on–in this order. We'll deal with the Bill 3 first and, if completed, we'll move on to 8, and, if completed, we'll move on to 9.

Debate on Second Readings
(Continued)

Bill 3–The Victims' Bill of Rights Amendment Act
(Denying Compensation to Offenders and Other Amendments)

Mr. Speaker: So I'm going to call resumed debate on second reading of Bill 3, The Victims' Bill of Rights Amendment Act (Denying Compensation to Offenders and Other Amendments), standing in the name of the honourable member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Hawranik).

What is the will of the House? Is the will of the House for the bill to remain standing in the name of the honourable member for Lac du Bonnet?

Some Honourable Members: No.

Mr. Speaker: No? It's been denied.

Okay. We have speakers. Okay.

Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Yes, thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, and it's a pleasure to rise to put a few words on the record regarding Bill 3, The Victims' Bill of Rights Amendment Act, and certainly, we on this side of the House, and I would say all members, are well aware of the consequences of crime, both in a financial sense and also a psychological sense.

I've had the opportunity–one that I don't relish, but one that I think is important–to speak to victims of crime, sometimes very heinous crimes, and the impact that it leaves with them for the rest of their lives is tremendous. And we often, I think to our detriment, focus on the physical impact of crime that victims sometimes suffer, and, of course, that's important and it's not to be diminished. But we often overlook the psychological impact that crime leaves on an individual, the loss of a feeling of safety, the loss of a feeling of security–all of that can impact an individual in many different ways. Certainly, in their work life, in their home life, in their personal life, it can have an effect for many, many years.

This bill, I think, while I wish it would have come forward many years ago, at least does bring forward some good initiatives at this point. We often wonder, at this late stage of the government's life, Mr. Speaker, why it is that it took so long for initiatives to come forward. I know that there are victims groups who've advocated for some of the changes that are contained within these bills, and we've spoken about them here and in other places, and yet it didn't come forward until now. And it's not that it's not a good thing, that it's come forward at this stage, but one wonders why it was so far down the priority list of the government that it took some 11 years for it to get to this particular stage.

We would hope that that's not a reflection on what they feel about the importance of dealing with victims of crime, and we know, unfortunately, in Manitoba today, that there are more victims of crime than there ever have been before and, in particular, when we talk about violent crime. And just today we saw the Winnipeg police annual report which brought forward information that violent crime has increased 14 per cent year over year. And I know that the Minister of Justice (Mr. Swan) was trying to dismiss that earlier today and trying to suggest that's not significant, and I would say to him that it's obviously significant to the public, that's it's obviously significant to Winnipeggers and to Manitobans, but it's certainly significant to those who become victims of crime.

And, while it's important to have measures in place to help those who do become victims of crime, I think it's equally and perhaps in some ways more important to have measures in place that reduce the number of victims, so that they don't have to rely on this legislation, so that they don't have to rely on services after they've become victims. And that's really been the failing of this government, Mr. Speaker, to not ensure that there's been a reduction of victims, that there are less victims.

And, yes, you know, we sort of come in after and clean up the mess that sometimes happens when we have those who've been victims of crime, and that is important, but I think we could do more to ensure that there never–individuals never have to rely on this act. They never have to turn to the Victims' Bill of Rights and say, what am I entitled to now that I've already become a victim? We need to be proactive, and that's not happening under this government. In fact, I was disappointed today to hear the minister essentially deny the problem and suggest that there wasn't any problem, that things were getting better, Mr. Speaker.

Well, I mean, that–it's–it would be comical if it wasn't so serious because Manitobans know, whether they read the newspapers, see the TV reports, talk to their neighbours, have discussions around their kitchen table, have discussions at their community centres, they know that it's not getting better. In fact, they see violent crime increasing, the type of crime getting more serious and the age of the offenders getting younger and younger. And they look to this government and they recognize it's been a failure, and yet the government itself doesn't want to have that same recognition. And you can never make the problem better if you first of all don't recognize that you have a problem, and that is the position of this government right now, that everything is fine; there's nothing to worry about.

So, obviously, we will have more discussion at committee on this particular bill. We think it's important that it goes to committee. We can hear some from those who want to come forward and make presentations, and we would look forward to initiatives that would not only help victims of crime, Mr. Speaker, but also help reduce the number of victims so they never have to rely on this particular piece of legislation. Thank you very much.

Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question?

Some Honourable Members: Question.

Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is Bill 3, The Victims' Bill of Rights Amendment Act (Denying Compensation to Offenders and Other Amendments).

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed]

Bill 8–The Legal Aid Manitoba Amendment Act

Mr. Speaker: Now I'll call Bill 8, The Legal Aid Manitoba Amendment Act, standing in the name of the honourable member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Hawranik).

What is the will of the House? Does the honourable member–is it the will of the House to keep it standing in the name of the honourable member for Lac du Bonnet?

Some Honourable Members: No.

Mr. Speaker: No? That's been denied.

* (15:20)

Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): I also want to put forward a few words regarding Bill 8, The Legal Aid Amendment Act. And, when you look at Legal Aid, it's obviously an area of government, of justice, that's very troubled.

There are many, many cases that are coming forward before Legal Aid, and I know in talking with those who are involved with Legal Aid, that it's a very, very difficult time. And I know that the Attorney General, the Minister of Justice (Mr. Swan), thinks that the solution to that is simply to either deny that there's a problem or to try to limit benefits in terms of those who are involved. And, certainly, we think that there should be clear measures in place so that those who either have the means or those who in some ways have fallen into the Legal Aid system by their own actions, that there needs to be a review of that, and to ensure that we're not providing Legal Aid funds in a way that makes it harder for those who are truly deserving of the funds to receive them.

And so this is a partial measure to that but I would ask the Attorney General to also look at measures that reduce the ways–that reduce the number of people who end up going to Legal Aid, and that means reducing crime. And, we have seen in terms of recidivism rates in Headingley prison or in other provincial correctional centres in Manitoba that it's essentially a revolving door, that individuals in the adult system and in the youth system come into the Headingley prison, for example–and this holds true for all the provincial facilities in our province–head into the system, they are released, and then within two years 70 per cent at least are charged with another offence. And, when we talk about young offenders, it's even worse. In many cases, when you do the studies, you find out between 95 per cent and 100 per cent of youth who are released from the youth correctional centre here in Winnipeg end up getting charged with an offence in the next five years.

And, if we could have measures that would come before this House or have a government that was serious about ensuring that crime was actually going down, then some of the pressure that exists right now on Legal Aid would be relieved. But the government never looks at that. They never look at why it is that there is pressure, for example, on our Crown attorneys, or why it is that there is pressure on our prison system, or why it is that there is pressure on Legal Aid.

Well, the reason there is pressure on all of these systems, important systems within our justice system, is because there are more crimes being committed, and they don't want to look at ways to ensure that we have less crime in the province of Manitoba and, certainly, one of those ways would be deterrence and to ensure that individuals who are on the path towards more and more violent crimes get off of that path and take the off-ramp into a productive role into society so that they aren't continuing to commit crimes, and then finding themselves going to Legal Aid and looking for resources, finding themselves going to prison, finding themselves committing a crime that causes a victim, but then has to go and look at The Victims' Bill of Rights in terms of what resources they can have.

So, ultimately, so many of these issues that we have in terms of pressures on our justice system start at the root of trying to reduce the number of criminals and the number of crimes. But that's not something this government wants to look at; that's not something they want to talk about. The Minister of Justice (Mr. Swan) says that everything is going okay, there's no problems, and I know that Manitobans don't believe that. They don't for a second believe that. They know that things are getting worse, and this Minister of Justice can continue to put his head in the sand and say that things are okay and that they're getting better. But, ultimately, nobody's going to believe that and he's going to have to come forward at some point with measures to reduce crime in the province of Manitoba, or Manitobans are going to ensure that there is a new government that'll do just that.

With that, Mr. Speaker, we look forward to seeing this bill go to committee, and we can have further discussion at that time.

Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question?

Some Honourable Members: Question.

Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is Bill 8, The Legal Aid Manitoba Amendment Act.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed]

Bill 9–The Summary Convictions Amendment Act

Mr. Speaker: Resume debate, Bill 9, The Summary Convictions Amendment Act, standing in the name of the honourable member for the Lakeside.

What is the will of the House? Is it the will of the House for the bill to remain standing in the name of the honourable member for the Lakeside?

Some Honourable Members: No.

Mr. Speaker: No, that's been denied?

Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): I want to say just a few words regarding Bill 9, The Summary Convictions Amendment Act, which will, I understand–and I'll get further discussions from the minister when we get to committee, but the–I understand the bill essentially fines individuals who aren't paying their fines and, why, that's an interesting concept, Mr. Speaker, and I–if I knew that everybody who was going to–who wasn't paying their fines would then have paid the additional fine because they didn't pay the first fine, then I might say, well, this is something that's going to have a great effect.

And it's strange, though; we know, in looking at some of the numbers–I think the last numbers that I saw was that there was about 42 to 45 million dollars of outstanding fines in the province of Manitoba. Perhaps the minister can provide an update on those numbers. They may even be higher today then they were when we last saw those numbers. But, clearly, there's a problem with people not paying their fines, and I think that that starts with a lot of people simply not respecting the legal system. And I think a lot of that is bred from the fact that they look at what's happening in the justice system under the NDP and there isn't a lot of reason for them to think that they need to follow through on their court orders or follow through on their fines because they don't see a government that's taking it seriously.

And so now the solution to that by the member for Minto (Mr. Swan), the Attorney General, is to fine people who aren't paying their fines and to hope that they pay the additional fine because they haven't paid their first fine. And, again, Mr. Speaker, that might be a nice gesture, a nice hope that the additional fine is going to encourage them to pay their first fine, but I think that maybe the problem is a little bit more deeply rooted and that is that under this NDP government, this soft-on-crime government, there has been a disrespect grow over the–

An Honourable Member: Weak.

Mr. Goertzen: I know the member for Springfield (Mr. Schuler) says they're weak on crime, and I would say that he's right. He's often right in this House, Mr. Speaker, and I think he's correct on that–that the government has bred a system–bred a culture in Manitoba where those who want to flaunt the law think that they can flaunt the law under this soft-on-crime government, and it shows up when it comes to fines. And so this may be a very simplistic solution to what is a serious problem, and I think that there are more things that the government could do to ensure that people actually respected the law and actually felt that the law was going to take things seriously, which clearly they don't under this NDP government.

We look forward, Mr. Speaker, to this going to committee for further discussion.

Mr. Speaker: House ready for the question?

An Honourable Member: Question.

Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is Bill 9, The Summary Convictions Amendment Act.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed]

House Business

Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader, on further House business.

Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Yes, I think now we can move to Bill 5 and then Bill 7.

Mr. Speaker: Ready for the House business? We will resume debate. We'll start with Bill 5 and, if completed, we'll move on to Bill 7.

Bill 5–The City of Winnipeg Charter Amendment Act
(Historic Property Designations)

Mr. Speaker: And I'll now call Bill 5, The City of Winnipeg Charter Amendment Act (Historic Property Designations), standing in the name of the honourable member for Ste. Rose.

Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to rise to speak to Bill 5 this afternoon, The City of Winnipeg Charter Amendment Act (Historic Property Designations).

First blush on this, I don't see a whole lot of problems with this bill. It essentially gives the City of Winnipeg the same authorities that all other municipalities in the province have had for quite a number of years, and that's the authority to designate properties as well as buildings as historical sites.

Municipalities across the province have used this type of legislation for quite a number of years now, and it seems kind of strange that The Municipal Act that governs the other municipalities has, in several cases now that I've become aware of, allowed more autonomy to the municipalities than the City of Winnipeg Charter does. This bill will address some of the shortfalls of the City of Winnipeg Charter and allow, for instance, that the City of Winnipeg can only designate buildings at the present time. And it will allow properties such as graveyards, cemeteries and other specific properties to go into the heritage designation.

* (15:30)

I look forward to dealing with this bill at committee. I have been trying to get in touch with the–with Heritage Winnipeg and I haven't been able to yet. So I'll look forward to some comments from Heritage Winnipeg, and we will look forward to dealing with this bill at committee and see what the public is saying about this bill.

With this–those few words, I thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question?

Some Honourable Members: Question.

Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is Bill 5, the City of Winnipeg Charter Amendment Act (Historic Property Designations).

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed]

Bill 7–The Polar Bear Protection Amendment Act

(International Polar Bear Conservation Centre)

Mr. Speaker: Resume debate on Bill 7, The Polar Bear Protection Amendment Act (International Polar Bear Conservation Centre), standing in the name of the honourable member for Lac du Bonnet (Mr. Hawranik).

What is the will of the House? Is it the will of the House for the bill to remain standing in the name of the honourable member for Lac du Bonnet?

Some Honourable Members: No.

Mr. Speaker: No, that's been denied.

Mr. David Faurschou (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise in the House this afternoon to participate in second reading debate of Bill 7, The Polar Bear Protection Amendment Act, that was introduced into the House on November the 23rd and debated briefly on second reading yesterday, November the 30th.

The bill itself is amending an existing act that has been on the books for a number of years. And I do understand by the minister's comments yesterday that this is a further progression towards establishing the centre at the Assiniboine Zoo that will allow for persons not only living in the city of Winnipeg or in the province of Manitoba, but, in fact, the entire world to learn more about the polar bear and its habitat and the effect of climate change upon the environment in which the polar bear exists.

It is an act, without question, that, once again, this government is bringing before the House to further previous announcements that this–that the government seems to have a plan to appeal to the media and to continue repeating itself, time and time again, and on verbiage rather than actual action. It's been well over a year now since the first announcement was made about a commitment to the Assiniboine Zoo for construction of this particular facility, and yet we're now just seeing the legislation that will allow for the flow of monies towards the project. And this government, again, likes to spread things out so that they–gives the impression to the voting public that there is something happening over here at the Manitoba Legislative Assembly.

In–even though it's–it is progressing at a very slow rate, Mr. Speaker, I do support the effort to allow for those of us that don't see polar bears on a regular basis to learn more about them and their adaptation to the habitat that can be very adverse at times, but, also, too, to learn when climate does behave in an abnormal fashion that the effects that it does have on natural wildlife and the habitat to which they live. And, also, it is vitally important that without this information, that the public and we as legislators do not have the full information package so that we can make intelligent decisions that will, hopefully, address the concerns that are coming before us.

And this, indeed, as it pertains to the polar bear, which is well-known around the world. And, indeed, Manitoba is home for the polar bears, and most specifically Churchill. And if–for those members of the Assembly that have yet to have a chance to see a polar bear upfront and personal, I would encourage them to take the opportunity to visit Churchill during the migration period in the fall and spring that sees the polar bears that migrate to the ice floes and then back to landfall again in the spring.

But I will share with the House that it is an experience that one does get enlightened. I took an opportunity to try and get a closer look at a polar bear cub that had went across the road in front of the vehicle to which I was travelling, and the driver most quickly secured me in my seat because he indicated that where the polar bear cub was, mother polar bear was not too far behind, and persons getting between a polar bear cub and its mother is not a very safe environment for the person that does.

So, Mr. Speaker, I look forward to seeing this bill come before committee so the public has opportunity to participate and that we can learn more of this project to which this legislation supports.

Thank you very much.

Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question?

Some Honourable Members: Question.

Mr. Speaker: Oh, sorry. The honourable Government House Leader, on further House business?

Hon. Jennifer Howard (Minister of Labour and Immigration): No, Mr. Speaker, I wish to speak to this.

Mr. Speaker: Oh, you wish to speak to this? Okay.

Ms. Howard: Yes.

Mr. Speaker: The honourable Minister of Labour and Immigration, to speak to Bill 7.

Ms. Howard: I'd like to thank the opposition for that warm and deserved applause, I would say.

I wish to put a few words on the record about this bill protecting polar bears. And I know it's a bill that, perhaps, we could all agree on, but I do think it's an important bill and important to talk about the conservation efforts for the polar bears that really are one of the jewels in the crown of Manitoba.

I have not yet had the opportunity, as I know many people in the House have had, to travel to Churchill to visit the polar bears, and I hope that the polar bears don't ever come to visit me. So I look forward someday to being able to get up there.

An Honourable Member: There's one sitting next to you.

Ms. Howard: But I think that–well, that is true. My colleague, the MLA for Elmwood, does sometimes bear a resemblance to a very furry, fuzzy, cuddly polar bear. But he is not endangered, I assure you. There may be few like him, but he is not yet on the endangered list.

You know, it's interesting, I think, to note how much polar bears have become part of the consciousness of the world, really. And one way you can see that is just looking at the way polar bears are used in commercials.

And there's one commercial that people may have seen that, I think, illustrates what the importance of the polar bear is in terms of climate change and preserving the planet. And this is a commercial that some people may have seen, where it starts where there's a polar bear out on the ice floe in the Arctic, a place I know that you're very familiar with, Mr. Speaker, and you're not sure where this commercial is going. Is it a commercial for conservation? Is it a commercial for the World Wildlife Fund? And then the next thing that you see is this polar bear off the ice floe and he's walking through the tundra. And then he's walking along the side of a road. Then he walks up to behind a gentleman and stands up and gives him a big hug, which is not, I hear, what polar bears tend to do when they're clear–when they're close to humans. And then it flashes to an electric car, and that's what the commercial is for.

So the polar bear has become a symbol not only, I think, of a tremendous creature and something that we all kind of, I think, look at as a huge example of the diversity of nature, but also a symbol for people of why it's important to continue to preserve the planet and continue to take the action that we've been taking on issues like climate change.

I think you also see polar bears often used–increasingly used in children's books. I know all of us go out and participate in February in I Love to Read Month events. And I know several of us, when we go out and do that, we bring with us books about polar bears because it is a story that we can tell to children that helps illustrate the importance of the things that they may be engaged in in their own homes to deal with preserving the environment and preserving climate change.

* (15:40)

You know, it's one thing to talk to kids about why, maybe, it's important to not leave all the lights on; why, maybe, it's important to not have the car be totally warmed up when you get into it. But it's another thing when you can relate those measures back to preserving and saving the polar bears.

And we all know in this House the situation that polar bears are in. We know that their home, the ice floes–every year it takes longer for that ice to freeze up, and we know that, as a result, polar bears go hungry. And, when polar bears go hungry, we know that it has an effect on their breeding. We know it has an effect on baby polar bears being born, but we also, I think, have sometimes heard of horrible situations where polar bears are found starved to death because the ice didn't freeze in time for them to get out and for them to hunt.

And I know that there's tremendous wisdom in the traditional peoples of the North, and when you talk to some of those elders, they will tell you that they have seen, in their own lifetime, that ice take longer and longer to freeze and that they can tell you stories of those polar bears and a time when that population was much greater.

Of course, you know, if saving the polar bears isn't enough motivation to make some difference when it comes to climate change, the other motivation, I think, would be protecting people from polar bears because we know that as the ice diminishes, as they are unable to get out on the ice to hunt, the number of human-to-bear contacts also tends to go up, and that isn't good, of course, for anyone. We know that, when bears come into contact with humans, of course it's frightening for humans, but it also can be devastating to those bears, because as bears get closer to humans, as they perhaps develop a taste and a habit of getting their food from human sources, then they tend to become problem bears. And, when a bear becomes a problem, there's very little that one can do, I suppose, to remedy that.

So the parts of this bill that I think are going to be very important, not only for the polar bears, but for the planet, will be putting in place a conservation centre at the Assiniboine Park Zoo in Winnipeg, and part of that's going to include, of course, an education centre which will be dedicated to the study of polar bears and the Arctic ecosystem. There'll also be–part of it will also be a natural environment to exhibit polar bears and a transition centre for orphaned or injured polar bears.

And all of these things, I think, are important parts of helping people learn to appreciate the polar bear. I know how much members opposite appreciate the polar bear. I am sure if they are well-behaved little boys and girls, they may find some stuffed polar bears in their Christmas stocking on Christmas morning. One never knows, and I know, you know, after today, we're all going to strive to be a little better behaved because we want to make sure that not only are we better behaved for each other but also we're better behaved for that special time of year that's coming.

And you know why it's important for us to have exposure to these bears, and I think there's probably many of us in this House that could talk about a time when they went to go visit the Assiniboine Park Zoo. I know for me it was a big part of being a kid when we would come from Brandon to Winnipeg for a visit in the summer. Often, part of that was a visit to the zoo and getting to see those animals like the bears, like the polar bear, and we all remember Debby, the polar bear, and I think that, you know, we saw how important that zoo is and how important getting to see those animals are when we saw the outpouring of emotion and the outpouring of grief that was related to the death of Debby the polar bear. And it may be, you know, something that people may want to make light of, that there was such an emotional connection to this bear, but I think it speaks to the caring of Manitobans for their natural environment and for the animals that call it home, that there was such a connection to Debby.

So it's important now that we take the opportunity that we have to make that zoo and to make especially that connection to the Arctic world class, not only so that it attracts tourists, Mr. Speaker, but also so that boys and girls here in Manitoba have an opportunity to go and see the polar bear and go and see the nature and the animals that there–that we're all working very hard to make sure to continue to exist and continue to have a home.

Part of the discussion that I listened to very closely yesterday when my colleague the Minister of Conservation (Mr. Blaikie) was talking about this bill, was how orphaned bears are going to find their way into this centre, because a very important part of this centre is the transition centre for orphaned and injured polar bears, and I think that that centre is going to be an important aspect of this because it's also going to help preserve a home for those polar bears when they unfortunately lose their parents, and that is also, I think, a very devastating and unfortunate part of climate change, is when parent bears are starved; they're not able to get food or they become problem bears and cubs are left behind.

So what kinds of things is this conservation centre going to do? You'll see in the act the purposes are laid out. Things like supporting and facilitating research related to the conservation of polar bears, including research on polar bear husbandry and the impact of climate change on polar bears, educating the public about polar bears and the sensitivity of the Arctic ecosystem, exhibiting polar bears and, of course, taking care of the orphaned and injured polar bears.

So there's much to recommend this bill and I'm sure there are many members of the opposition eager to add their words to the discussion of the polar bears and we all look forward to that day, perhaps, when we can all join hands together and go visit the polar bears at the Assiniboine Park Zoo and get a chance to see what we have wrought by working on this legislation and, hopefully, passing this legislation. [interjection] Well, I thank the honourable members for their encouragement. I'm happy to continue to speak to this bill, given their interest and they're urging me on.

I think it's interesting to note, Mr. Speaker, that we have already made quite a significant contribution to the preservation of the polar bears. In December of 2009, Manitoba announced a $31‑million investment towards the creation of an international polar bear conservation centre at the Assiniboine Park Zoo, and this, we hope, will be built in three stages. Part of it is a rescue centre for orphaned cubs as I've spoken about, and I think we want to all–we would all be concerned about how those orphaned polar bear cubs are going to be treated. Those that are less than two years of age, in good health, and unable to survive in the wild would be considered for placement under human care. A polar bear may only be held in captivity for legitimate scientific, educational or conservation purpose. We certainly wouldn't want to hold polar bears against their will. We want them to be able to be held and for them to be healthy as they are in the zoo.

It's a very good piece of legislation and I commend the Minister of Conservation for bringing it forward for our consideration, and I look forward to hearing more discussion of this legislation as the afternoon progresses.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Hon. Andrew Swan (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): It is indeed a pleasure to rise and speak about Bill 7, The Polar Bear Protection Amendment Act, to speak a little bit about the polar bear which is indeed an icon of this beautiful province that we call home. And much like the member for Fort Rouge, the Minister of Labour (Ms. Howard), certainly I recall growing up not that far from Assiniboine Park Zoo in the Silver Heights area and, of course, one of the first things you would see when entering the zoo was the polar bear exhibit and, of course, as the Minister of Labour has said, Debby was certainly a long lived and very, very popular polar bear. Debby was about the same age as I was, and I, like many other Manitobans, was very disappointed to hear of Debby's death but I know that her legacy will be brought forward by the tremendous improvements which are going to happen when the bill comes into effect. And, certainly, the goal of this bill is to promote the establish of a world-class facility dedicated to polar bear conservation education which will benefit the long-term well-being of polar bears around the world.

And it's very useful to stand up and speak about this because polar bears live in the north. I know that's a part of the province that creates some geographical challenges for the members opposite, so I can tell them a little bit about my own experiences travelling in northern Manitoba, my family's experiences, which, I think, will be instructive for the members opposite.

Now, I haven't had the chance to see a polar bear outside of a safe example such as in a zoo, but there are a growing number of people around the world who believe the opportunity to go and see polar bears in their natural habitat is truly the pinnacle of tourism experiences and, of course, if you visit Churchill and you speak to people there, you will learn about the legions of British and German and Japanese tourists who believe the tourist experience they get here in Manitoba and the chance to go out on the tundra and see polar bears is an absolutely incredible experience.

* (15:50)

Now, I have a very happy marriage, but I do share my life just a little bit with two men, Colin Firth and Ewan McGregor, both British actors. My wife is a huge Colin Firth fan, which isn't relevant to this speech, but she is a huge Ewan McGregor fan which is–if anybody in this House has not seen the documentary that Ewan McGregor has created, talking about his own experiences of travelling to Churchill, being in Manitoba, and seeing polar bears in their natural habitat, it is well worth it and, certainly, as all of us are representatives of this House, something you can use to promote the great things that we have in this province.

Now, I have not had the chance, again, to see a polar bear outside of a controlled environment, but I did have the chance to travel north to York Factory. I went with the–now the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Struthers), then the Minister of Conservation, and we actually went to a very happy ceremony at which the Hayes River, that great untapped river in northern Manitoba, was deemed a heritage river and we had a great celebration at York Factory, which, of course, has the historic fort where the Hudson's Bay Company had a trading post. Of course, York Factory still stands and the community from York Landing First Nation were able to come and join for the celebration.

We didn't see any polar bears at the time, but I did certainly notice the young men with rifles over their shoulders, walking around the celebration, making sure that all of us were safe in the event that a large polar bear decided to drop in and see what all the action was about. My father-in-law, though, has had some close experiences with polar bears. My father-in-law is a retired bishop in the Anglican Church of Canada. He was the bishop of the Diocese of Keewatin, which included a large number of northern communities, and he had one experience to be on the shoreline of the bay with one of his lay ministers and my father-in-law was looking out on the sea ice and saw what he thought was a large white dog and he turned to the lay minister to say, look at that white dog out there, and all he saw was the back of his lay minister running as fast as he possibly could towards the settlement. My father‑in‑law is actually a fairly accomplished runner, so he decided that taking the local advice was the best thing he could possibly do and he decided to take that advice and also head back to settlement. But, in truth, it does show the majesty of these creatures, the importance to protect them, and truly the benefits for Manitoba as we continue to promote these amazing animals.

Polar Bears International is a very interesting group of business people, of others, mainly from the United States of America, who share the same affinity and the same interest in polar bears in Manitoba. I had a chance to meet with these people who are very, very interested in making sure that the future of the polar bear is saved and preserved in the province of Manitoba and elsewhere. And, certainly, this act, which will allow for the founding of the conservation centre here at the Assiniboine Park Zoo in Winnipeg, which will provide an education centre dedicated to the study of polar bears and the Arctic ecosystem, which will provide a natural environment to exhibit polar bears and, as other members have stated, a transition centre for orphaned or injured polar bears, will truly add a lot more excitement to the Assiniboine Park Zoo and will truly be a great destination for anybody, from wherever they may be in the world, who's interested in the polar bear. And, of course, the conservation centre will have a number of very valuable purposes to support and facilitate research related to the conservation of polar bears, including research in polar bear husbandry and the impact of climate change on polar bears.

It's refreshing to hear that some members of the opposition now accept there is such a thing as climate change because we know that they made a number of public statements in the past which made us wonder whether or not they actually accepted the prevailing scientific view. It sounds like they're moving in the right direction, and, for that, I think we can all be truly, truly grateful.

The conservation centre will also educate the public about polar bears and the sensitivity of the Arctic ecosystem. Of course, as I've said, it'll exhibit polar bears in their natural environment and operate a transitional centre for orphaned or injured polar bears.

So this will truly be a jewel for tourism here in Manitoba, here in the city of Winnipeg but also in the wonderful northland, Mr. Speaker, with which I know you are very familiar. I'm looking very forward to this bill being passed and Manitoba continuing to be a place where the entire world comes to learn and see more about polar bears.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, for giving me the chance to speak about this very, very important bill.

Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question?

Some Honourable Members: Question.

Mr. Speaker: The question before the House is Bill 7, The Polar Bear Protection Amendment Act (International Polar Bear Conservation Centre).

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed]

House Business

Mr. Speaker: The honourable Government House Leader, on further House business.

Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker, further to the announcement I made about the committee on Monday night, I'd like to add Bill 5, The City of Winnipeg Charter Amendment Act (Historic Property Designations), and Bill 7, The Polar Bear Protection Amendment Act (International Polar Bear Conservation Centre), to that committee to meet at 6 p.m. on December 6.

An Honourable Member: What committee is that?

Mr. Speaker: The standing committee on–okay, for the Committee for Social and Economic Development, for Monday, at 6 p.m., these two bills will be added to the previously announced. Bills 5 and 7 will be added to it. That's for the information of the House.

* * *

Ms. Howard: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I think, if you canvass the House, you may find the will to call it 5 o'clock.

Mr. Speaker: Is it the will of the House to call it 5 o'clock? [Agreed]

Okay, the hour now being 5 p.m., this House is adjourned and stands adjourned until 10 a.m. tomorrow morning.

Introduction of Bills

Petitions

Ministerial Statements

Oral Questions

Social Assistance Work Training Programs

Social Assistance Work Training Programs

Violent Crime

Football Stadium

Shoal Lakes

Thomas Lake

RM of Strathclair

Oral Questions

Lake Winnipeg

Small Business Tax

Members' Statements

ORDERS OF THE DAY

Debate on Second Readings

Debate on Second Readings (Continued)

House Business

Debate on Second Readings
(Continued)