LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.
Good morning, everyone. Please be seated.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker. Would you see if there's will to move to Bill 212?
Mr. Speaker: Is there leave of the House to proceed to Bill 212? [Agreed]
Introduction of Guests
Mr. Speaker: Prior to moving to that, I want to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today from Acadia Junior High 50 grade 9 students under the direction of Ms. Wanda Dombeck. This group is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Housing and Community Development (Ms. Irvin-Ross).
On behalf of honourable members, we welcome you here this morning.
Bill 212–The Apprenticeship Recognition Act
Mr. Dave Gaudreau (St. Norbert): I move, seconded by the minister of Child and Family Services and Labour, that Bill 212, The Apprenticeship Recognition Act; Loi sur la reconnaissance de l'apprentissage, be now read for a second time and referred to committee of this House.
Motion presented.
Mr. Gaudreau: I rise today in support of this bill because of apprentices across this province. These people are key to the development of our province. They are the people that actually do the building of what our province has been going on. We have doubled the number of apprentices since 1999, and these people are so important to our economy. We've doubled the tax credit this year, and in Budget 2012 we've doubled it from three to six thousand and we're looking at creating more positions in Manitoba.
The Red River College–last year I was at the announcement at Red River College for a $16‑million facility for a skilled technical and trade centre, and this shows the commitment of our government to training and trade.
I think that we need to recognize these people and all the effort that they've put into our province and into building it.
I myself was an apprentice journeyman welder and I took my training from–at Red River College, and then I ended up going to Keewatin Community College in The Pas. And the commitment involved towards these–this kind of thing is huge. You end up doing–you work for 1,800 hours and then you do your–it's eight weeks at school. I would drive to The Pas every weekend and do my eight-week stint at school and come back every weekend to visit with my family, I had a young son at the time. So it's a huge commitment for people to be able to go and do these kinds of things, and I think it's so important that we recognize that these people, the amount of work and effort that they've put into it.
I also think that it's important that we recognize that it's a career that people can look at rather than university. I know that when I was going to high school there wasn't so much of an option. I wasn't aware of the trades issue actually. I ended up working for about six years outside of high school at various jobs, some of them not so great, and ended up, you know, deciding that I needed to do something more. So I went back to school and took my pre-employment welding, and that's where I decided that, you know, I wanted–I started welding and I wanted to do more. So I approached my employer and I asked for an apprenticeship program. And it took some wrangling and some doing with the apprenticeship branch, and I ended up apprenticing at this company for about two years. After I finished my second level I ended up moving on and apprenticing–and finishing my apprenticeship at a different company, Kleysen Transport, and after that I successfully applied as a journeyman and got on with the City of Winnipeg. So I think that, you know, this shows that the amount of commitment needed to go to these courses.
I have a bunch of co-workers and friends that are going, actually, in the apprenticeship program right now. Some of my friends are doing the industrial mechanic training and they're going to Brandon, so same thing, eight weeks in Brandon. It takes a lot of co-ordination to do this, and I think that it's a–important that we highlight this and attract more youth into apprenticeships. We all know that this is one of the most demand jobs right now is in apprenticeships and trades. So I think that by highlighting this and hopefully creating the–with creating the apprenticeship week it goes to showing students that there, you know, there is another option.
Also with this apprenticeship week, it kind of ties in at the beginning November recognizing that first week. When you're starting out as a grade 12 student you still haven't picked your–maybe where you're going in life. So doing it at the beginning of November gives them the highlight of that week to maybe explore the trades and look at where they're going to go. You know, by doing it early on in the year they can then maybe choose a career path that takes them down the trades route, and there's lots of opportunities that arrive from trades. It's not just doing the job. As we can see, I am a testament to that standing here in the House and, I believe, yourself, Mr. Speaker, was a tradesperson in your previous career. So, you know, it shows that you can–a trade can lead to many different avenues and I think that it's really important that we do that.
My son is 17 and goes to Vincent Massey collegiate, and he's looking at possible taking a trade. He's thinking about doing an electrician so–and I applaud that. I think it's a–and I believe that's what, Mr. Speaker, you were, an electrician, so maybe we'll have some chats about that in the future. But I think that it's a great thing for him to explore doing that and I encourage him greatly to take on a–past high school, taking on something else, doing a trade.
You know, university isn't for everybody and, to tell you the truth, you come out of trades and you end up making sometimes a lot more money in the end than you would in university. So I think that it's a very viable option for people to go look at doing.
In Budget 2011 we invested $4.15 million to create 1,200 new apprenticeship seats. I think that speaks volumes to this government, knowing that we're going to experience some trade shortages and that we're going to make more spaces available and more–and create more opportunity for youth in our province in apprenticeship.
I'm sure the minister for youth and opportunities would agree that this is a great program and that the more youth that we engage in taking these kinds of trades, the more likely that they'll end up staying in Manitoba and working in Manitoba with our province. And as we build–because we know that right now the province is booming. Last week there was a report saying that, you know, we're expected to exceed growth, growth expectations. We do have the second lowest unemployment rate in the country. I think that speaks volumes to what we do as a government and that we're doing things in the right direction.
* (10:10)
When I was at the Red River announcement for the $60-million new facility, which is a spectacular new building, there was also some mobile labs there, which are huge trailers that I got to go in and see. And they have–they're a big trailer decked out; they have welding machines in them. The interior of the trailer is all done up in checker-plated aluminum, and they have venting systems. So they can take these trailers and go to the north and bring the training to the communities that are needed. I think that this, once again, shows more about the commitment of this government to education and to apprenticeship and trade.
I think it's really important that we remember that the youth are the future of the province, and that by training them and educating them, whether it be university or in trades, that they, you know, they'll tend to stay here in our province. And speaking from my personal experience, I think that the trades are a wonderful way to go. I've had a great career with them and, you know, I've had so many friends that are tradespeople. And, you know, I mean, it's just a fantastic thing for you to get into when you're looking at a career.
So, like I said before, we have–we've actually had the highest number of immigrants and newcomers to Manitoba in the last few years that the province has seen. And in the past 16 years we've seen the most number of births last year. So it speaks to how the province is growing and that we need to keep the province growing. And to do so, we need to keep apprentices moving through the system, getting their education and becoming well-educated members of our society.
We heard some briefings that in southwestern Manitoba there's 4,000 new jobs created this past few years because of the oil industry. And those–a lot of those jobs are skilled trades jobs. So apprentices are so important to that industry. And, you know, we hear about the Alberta oil fields and people going there. Well, people are actually coming back to work in the Manitoba oil fields, and apprenticeship here is so important to that aspect of it.
So I think that, you know, trades being a component that people need to look at seriously–and I know that in the Pembina Trails School Division, which I represent a big area of, is Pembina Trails School Division, they have programs that allow students to go to South Winnipeg Tech and take up a trade and experience what it's like to be in trades.
So I think that it's a wonderful opportunity for the students, and I'm very proud to say that that's something that our government has worked towards–with the South Winnipeg Tech, and allowing high school students to experience different trades within the high school system. And it gives them an eye-opener that maybe university isn't the road that they want to take, but there's another viable opportunity to become a tradesperson.
So I think that recognizing the trades is a super important thing that we do. Now you look at that we have the apprenticeship recognition for the highest academic achievement in trades, and that coincides with this week. So every year they recognize–each trade gets recognized. I myself was the apprentice of the year in 2001.
And I think that, you know, this goes along with pumping the fact that we need more tradespeople and educating the greater public that trades are a fantastic, viable option and can create a great life for you. And it's a very mobile job. You can take a trade and you can go anywhere in Canada. And, you know, you can work anywhere on–in any province and take your trade with you.
So I think that we need to keep in mind that trades are important and that we want to make sure that we recognize these people and that we recognize their accomplishments and achievements and their commitments.
So I thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, for allowing me to stand and support this bill that I'm presenting.
Mr. Dennis Smook (La Verendrye): Mr. Speaker, this bill proclaims the week of the first Monday in November in each year as apprenticeship recognition week. I am proud to recognize all the people who are involved in the apprenticeship program. This program gives people opportunities. Apprenticeship is an important program in developing and maintaining a highly skilled workforce that is vital to Manitoba's economy.
I support all Manitobans who have seized the opportunity to take part in an apprenticeship program, learn a trade, improve their lives and our economy. I am proud of the workers of Manitoba–the work of Manitoba's tradespeople. They make sure every day that the job is done properly. They build our reputation, inspire investment in our province.
In Manitoba almost 9,000 individuals are active apprentice in 50 different trades, learning the skills to begin their careers. Our economy needs more people willing to dedicate themselves to the trades in our province, and the apprenticeship program are how people get started. Designating the first week of November as apprenticeship recognition week is a good way to highlight the successful career anyone can have in the trades industry.
Manitoba has a strong workforce of tradespeople but more are needed to prepare the province for the future. The 2012 Construction Sector Council annual labour market forecast showed construction employment in Manitoba is facing a shortage of 16,000 workers over the next decade. In fact, the CSC says that of the 29 trades they track, Manitoba will have a shortage of skilled tradespeople every year in all categories for the next 10 years with one exception: the industrial millwrights, in one year.
Clearly, Manitoba needs tradespeople; we need more tradespeople. Unfortunately, despite the willingness of many Manitobans to enhance their skills and undertake an apprenticeship, this NDP's policy continues to keep thousands of young people from starting an apprenticeship. The NDP refuse to increase the apprentice-to-journeyperson ratio requirement from the current 1 to 1 ratio to a 2 to 1 ratio. This is a ratio that hinders any Manitobans who want to become a apprentice because it limits the space available to them.
This government will say that its increased employment incentives are helping create new apprentice positions, but the fact is that no matter how financially attractive hiring an apprentice is, a journeyman can only hire one apprentice. This is especially true in rural and northern Manitoba. Fewer journeypeople exist and aspiring apprentice have even less chance of gaining access to the trade with a 1 to 1 ratio requirement. This ratio creates a significant barrier to becoming an apprentice, according to the 2008 Apprentice Futures Commission report. This government-appointed commissioner actually recommended an immediate review of the ratio to ensure it would accurately reflect the training requirements of the trades.
Mr. Speaker, this government should listen to its own experts or other provinces on what is good for the future of the trades. Alberta recently increased the ratio to 1 to 2 to accommodate the need for more skilled tradespeople.
Mr. Speaker, I hope this government will do more to address the issue of needing more trained tradespeople. Creating a recognition week is a good idea, but this government needs to do more for our apprenticeship program. Thank you.
Hon. Jim Rondeau (Minister of Healthy Living, Seniors and Consumer Affairs): And I'm pleased to put a few words on The Apprenticeship Recognition Act that my honourable colleague from St. Norbert put forward.
I'm very pleased to do this because I was minister of CTT, and industry and mines, for many years– actually about six, almost seven years–and so I'm very familiar with the file. And not only am I familiar with the file, I'm familiar with the journey and I'm familiar with what's happened over a period of time. And I was concerned when I became minister of industry because, really, there was a lack of skilled trades, a lack of training, a lack of apprenticeship spaces, and there actually had been nothing really done to the entire apprenticeship system for about 12 to 15 years. And I think that was very scary. There was only about three–two to three thousand people going into apprenticeships a year. The amount of people who were older in the trades was growing and, in fact, I believe, if memory serves me correctly, the average age of journeymen was about 49 to 53, in fact, and it was very, very scary.
So I'm pleased that we actually started moving forward on it.
I'd like to correct the member in–opposite when he said that there wasn't a lot done. I say, as the member who put the apprenticeship commission together to review apprenticeship for the first time in about 15 years, I think that was very, very good because it showed us the way forward.
* (10:20)
Since 1999, the amount–member of–number of 'actiss' apprentices has doubled. We now have 8,325 active apprentices and, if memory serves me correct, that's from about 3,500 in 1999. The way–the reason why it's moved like that is because we actually have more space in colleges. We actually have more spaces for apprentices. We actually have worked with the industry to focus on areas of greatest need. And one of those things is the Aboriginal apprenticeships have almost tripled, increasing 175 per cent from 355 to 976 as of March 31st, 2011. That's really important, because a lot of the skilled trades go on in the north or in rural Manitoba, and I think that was really, really good.
The other thing that we've done is we actually focused on a supply-demand curve. So we looked at where apprentices were needed and we actually created the training spaces and the opportunities for those people who needed to go–wanted to go into the trades. We looked at the industries that needed the trades and we linked the two, just as was explained in the apprenticeship report.
The other thing that the member opposite might not know is that we've actually increased the flexibility of the system. We didn't change the ratio 1 to 1, 1 to 3, 1 to 7; what we did was we said, let's be flexible so that if a company believes that they can have a different ratio, they can actually approach the apprenticeship staff, say what they believe, give the reasoning for it, and we're flexible. And that means that we don't take a system that's worked well for 300 years, 1 to 1–actually the Middle Ages was the beginning of the apprenticeship system, and it's worked very, very well that way. And so it's been where people work for four–three, four years; they get the training that they need, and they move on.
The other thing that is really important that I'd like to–all members to understand is we started doing many more articulation agreements, which is kids would go to school–grade 10, 11, and 12–they'd take a trade, and they'd actually be able to get credit for what they learned. Prior to 1999, I was in the school division and it drove me crazy because what would happen is the kids would take welding in grade 10, 11, and 12 and have certain skills, and they'd be–they weren't even able to challenge those skills, so they'd go to first year apprenticeship in welding, second year apprenticeship in welding, and, you know, the scary part was they wouldn't get credit for any of that, so they'd have to start from scratch and go forward. I'm really pleased that we've signed some articulation agreements with school divisions and colleges so kids get credit. They don't have to repay the course twice, they don't have to waste time, and it actually gets people there first. So a lot of kids, I understand, in cooking, welding and many other trades, are actually getting credit for it. And that helps speed the process, makes it cheaper, makes it more efficient, and the kids actually try the career before they jump in. And that's actually very, very good.
The other thing that we identified as an issue when we did the Apprenticeship Futures task force, is they said, listen, never before has there been tax credits that create incentives for companies to hire, et cetera. And one thing that was interesting is what was lacking over the last 15, 20 years, prior to the Apprenticeship Futures Commission, was the ability of people hiring and taking a risk on young people and/or new people. And it was interesting because we set up a tax credit. It's worked very, very well. It's got good reviews and, because of that, it's actually done a great deal as far as taking the transition from school to work and having people get into first and second year. And the other thing that's interesting is that credit for levels 3, 4, and 5 apprentices will be doubled to a maximum of $5,000 a year from $2,500 and the journeyman hiring incentive was also be doubled to $5,000 this year. Now, the advantage of that is that people are now getting new people into the system and people can earn money while they're going to school.
I look at just the apprenticeship, and we're now investing about $21 million a year in the apprenticeship system. If memory serves me correctly, that's up from $4 million in '99. From $4 million to $20 million; there's an improvement for the amount of people who are training. And, you know, I was worried because what happens is it's also the case that you have to understand the demographics. If all your journeymen are 49 to 53 years old, on average, you've got a problem over long term. I am pleased that we're now training well in excess of what was happening before, and I'm pleased that we're getting more people into the trades.
Here's an example of innovation that I'm very pleased. We invested $400,000 in mobile training labs, in partnership with Red River College, and what they do is they take these three labs and they go out to rural and northern Manitoba, they train people, they give them their skills, and it actually works really, really well.
We're getting more of them now. I believe there's going to eventually be five of these labs, and I think that they're really good. Why? Because these give an opportunity to people who live at home while they're taking training, and it's really innovative. I've seen these labs. It is absolutely great and I think members on all sides of the aisle will agree that this is a good way of bringing schools–school to people rather than the other way around.
Let's talk about jobs. When one–I think that it's very important to have–understand demographics, understand economics. I look at Manitoba. We have the lowest unemployment rate in the country–or second-lowest. It's about 5.3; we're tied with Alberta, just behind Saskatchewan. But that's been about eight years that we've been like that–five years at least.
Over the last 24 months, we've had–private-sector employment has added 19,300 new jobs. That's a growth rate of 5.3 per cent which is very, very positive. It's the third best among the provinces and beats the heck out of Canada at 3.9 per cent.
And here's one that's really important. Our youth rate now is the third-lowest rate in the country at 11.6 per cent, still below the national rate of 13.9 per cent, but, more importantly, that's dropped considerably from 16 and 17 per cent in 2002-2003 and way over that earlier.
So our population's growing. We have a population of 1.258 million people now. It's grown by over 15,600 people. Our labour market has grown. The amount of people who are employed in the trades are grown, and we have a great, robust economy that's managed to deal with the economic slowdown well.
I think we have a strategy. I think that we can continue to work and improve the apprenticeship, but I'd like to thank the member for St. Norbert (Mr. Gaudreau) for bringing this bill forward because people need to know it. It's a real viable option. It makes a difference in people's lives. People can earn money while they're doing it, and our government has invested wisely across the board in apprenticeship. And I'm pleased to see that with the commission, we followed almost all of the recommendations and also become more flexible in the past.
So thank you very much. I look forward to working on the apprenticeship in the future and caring about it and investing it because it does make a difference for young people. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): It gives me great pleasure to stand today to put a few words on the record on Bill 212.
And it was interesting to hear that the average age of the journeymen in the province of Manitoba is 49 or 50, somewhere in that range, and I'd have to say that I'm on the high side of that average. I took my apprenticeship in 1965, and that apprenticeship wasn't available anywhere in Canada except on the west coast.
They developed a model on the west coast in 1965 that has been modelled all over Canada and United States, and that was for the construction industry. It was the boilermakers that put it on the record at that time, carried it off, and everyone copied that as time went on.
And it was a great apprenticeship program. It was six months that you went to school, and did we get paid to go to school? Yes, we did. We got $30 a week. It was a lot of money in 1965. In fact, I was a lot lighter in them days by the time I finished that course.
But at the same time, it did give me a base that allowed me to work all over Canada and United States. There was–been a lot changes since that time, of course. The apprenticeships were not mobile. We couldn't go from province to province and expect to complete our apprenticeship even though we were in a union. As an apprentice, you're never a union person. You're not a person–you're not a union member until you finish your apprenticeship program and pay your initiation.
And so it took some lobbying, and I guess, perhaps, that was the beginning of my political career, because even though we had no voice at a union meeting, I found a way of having a voice, and I found a way of having it changed so that we could travel–we could travel all across Canada and the hours that we worked would go towards our apprenticeship.
And so, in that respect, I have to say that there has been some mega steps forward, and, of course, once you do some steps like that, it's always difficult then to tweak them to make them better, but I do commend the member for having the apprenticeship commission and reviewed it in 2008. And I know that he did that with the right frame of mind, that he wanted to make things better for apprentices and for everyone concerned.
* (10:30)
Ms. Melanie Wight, Acting Speaker, in the Chair
The–he talked about a flexibility clause, and I'm–I have to say that I wasn't aware of that clause. I just don't know exactly how it works and who's in charge of that. But if there is such a clause in there, and it has been implemented since 2008, that's a–that's actually a plus because, in many cases, you have jobs that you–they're called shutdowns, repair jobs in the construction industry, and then they require a lot of help in a short time. And so that's when the apprentices do get an exposure to a lot of different things.
The recognition of the lack of apprenticeship spaces is very, very important as well, and I'm glad that that has taken place. The–I would say that there's–there are some things that we need to look at, or we should look at as we're going forward, and that's the mobility of our journeymen. We, on this side of the House, believe in a New West Partnership, and I'm sure that with a little advice from us that, on the other side of the House, that they will also see the light and become involved in the New West Partnership.
But it's very important, as well, for our trades people, for their mobility, that there's standardized testing in every province. The Red Seal, of course, was a big step forward, but at the same time, there was a lot of testing, and as the member from St. Norbert well knows, as a welder he can go from job to job here or go from employer to employer and quite often has to retest for that particular employer. That shouldn't necessarily have to happen. He should have a ticket. He should be able to go there and say, look, I'm a welder, I'm a tool of any trade, whether that happens to be the boilermakers, the plumbers, or the construction workers, and–but I can do–or the ironworkers, and I can do all of that welding because I have the tickets for that.
And if that would happen in a province, that's great, but then if you go to Saskatchewan you end up retesting again. You'll do job testing, and sometimes you have a bad day; you have a bad test. So you go to–drive to Estevan, you put in six hours of driving, you get there, you do your test, you're shaking like a leaf in a windstorm, and they do the bend test and it breaks, and you go back home because you failed the test. You don't get any pay for that.
These tests–or your trade should be able to recognize that you have passed all of the tickets that are necessary for that job, whether that's a TiG or whether it's MiG or whatever test that is necessary as far as the welding goes.
The Red Seal covers all of us in our rigging and in our fitting, and that's a–that is a plus. But when we start to look at the awareness week that's been proposed–and I don't think that's a bad idea. I do know that within the trades, the building trades, that there is apprenticeship competitions that are carried out throughout Canada, and this would be a great opportunity, in that week, to highlight those that have participated from our province, and who have been successful throughout Canada in the competition.
It would be great to see who's come to the cream of the crop that's come to the surface in Manitoba, and we should honour those individuals. And if they haven't won nationally, they were still there; they would still qualify to compete, and that's very important. So I–in that respect, I would say that this would be an excellent opportunity to do this.
And I believe that all of the construction today, and I guess I've been featuring construction, but it's not just construction. There's apprenticeships in things like chefs, for example. And they're very important, too, because everybody eats, and the exposure that the kids today get in school is very, very important. That last two or three years that they're in high school that they get exposed to different trades, whether that's being a cook, whether that's going to be a welder, or whether that's going to be a carpenter, or whether it's going to be a hairstylist. Those give everyone an opportunity to see if that's something that they would like to pursue as a career and work at for the rest of their life.
And, quite frankly, I had that opportunity when I went to the west coast and went to the apprenticeship program out there. And I liked the work I had, and it was great, but you didn't have that security of a job every day, but then, I wasn't looking for that type of security. I'm not sure what I was looking for, but I travelled all over the place trying to find it.
I finally ended up coming home to Manitoba and starting a ranch here and, at the same time, being involved in a lot of other different things, but it–that my trade allowed me to do that.
And so when we talked about this, Mr. Speaker, being an electrician, I'm not sure where he got his trade. But at the time that I started out in life, though, working for the railroad, that was a job with lot of security. But at the same time, there was an apprenticeship program within working for the railroad and many, many men and women got their apprenticeships and their trades working for the railroad. So that was a big plus, but a lot of people didn't realize that that was the security of their job was that they actually learned a trade there.
So with those few words, Madam Acting Speaker, I'm pleased to support this bill today, and thank you for the opportunity to get up and put a few words on the record.
Mr. Clarence Pettersen (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, it gives me great honour to put on the record the support that I have for the member from St. Norbert, the Bill 212, The Apprenticeship Recognition Act. I personally think it's a great time in November to recognize apprenticeships throughout Manitoba.
In November, high school students are at the point where they have to make choices of what they're going to do in the future: go on to university, work a year, or possibly take an apprenticeship. And I know many students in northern Manitoba didn't have those opportunities because we didn't have roving schools or trailers with welding supplies or whatever to learn the different skills in the apprenticeship program. But what we did have is we had industry, mining industry that took students aside and give them the opportunity to take apprenticeships in plumbing or electrical or carpentry.
And to give you some personal experiences, my brother-in-law took a, basically, a boilermakers' apprenticeship with HudBay and was able to use that to–when positions were being laid off he was able to use that to find jobs in Calgary and then eventually in Los Angeles. So by having apprenticeship it gives you choices and gives you opportunity. And I think the Manitoba government is using the apprenticeship program, one, to train Manitobans for jobs that are in Manitoba because we're going to be short. We have some great, exciting experiences coming up in Hydro along the east coast and, of course, in mining at Lalor in Snow Lake.
And being that it's Mining Week, we're recognizing mines in Manitoba and the jobs that they create, but in all mines you need trained workers. You need apprenticeships, you need electricians, plumbers. And mining itself, being a miner is not–you just go underground and get on the jack hammer and start drilling. You have to basically take an apprenticeship program.
So these are all good things, I think, that the Manitoba government is setting up and giving opportunities to young people to go into a good-paying job. And, like, in Jamaica they're saying come back to Jamaica. Well, no. We're going to say come back to Manitoba because the jobs are here and are going to be created more in the oil industry in the southwest or mining in the north, or like I say, hydro. Once hydro gets rolling on the east side, we're going to need many jobs.
The one thing I like to hear from the member of St. Norbert is saying how Red River College is basically jacking up their facilities, creating facilities to learn more apprenticeships. But also like the member from Assiniboine said, they also have, like, travelling workshops, trailers where you can take welding or electrical, and they'll go from community to community. This is really important because some of the communities that are in my constituency do not have road access, and in many cases they can be flown out to certain areas in the north where they can learn these skills. And, yes, giving opportunities to these people–and I was really excited when I looked at the–my notes here, and it says since 1999 the number of active apprentice has doubled for a total of 8,325 active apprentices.
* (10:40)
The Aboriginal apprenticeships have almost tripled, increasing 175 per cent, 355 to 976. That's phenomenal, and we need even more. We need more opportunities for our Canadians in the north so that they can have jobs and build a future and hope like the rest of us have we take for granted. So the apprenticeship programs gives us that hope, and I'm hoping that we even expand it even more, so that when you have a choice in grade 12–when I went to school it was either go to university, play hockey or take an apprenticeship program and the hockey aspect has maybe gone out–but you have, you have that choice between university and going for an apprenticeship. And we're training kids in high school, 10, 11 and 12, that are taking skills in welding so that they can just slip over right into the apprenticeship and actually get some credit for the courses they took in high school.
I taught high school myself and I think that's such a good opportunity for young people; one, to find out if they like it or not. I mean, it's like teaching; you don't just–you just don't go in front of a classroom, you know. You work with kids, you work with people to see if that's the area you want to go in. With apprenticeship, do you want to be a plumber? Well, go work with one. But do you want to be electrician or do you want to be a miner? Take these students, and I–give them the opportunities to see what the job entails and then let them make some choices. And sometimes they're going to pick the choice, sometimes they're not, but at least they're given that choice, whether or not they want to go into that program.
We, as Manitobans, obviously we invest money in that, and we're hoping that the people that want to go in the programs will stay in the programs, and then contribute back to society or to Manitoba, paying taxes, whatever. So it's really important that these programs are supported by our government, which they are, and also by the people that are going there.
The other thing I'd like to say is with the apprenticeship programs increasing in the different areas from cooking to, like you say, mining, to everything like that, we're giving a lot of our students opportunities they never had before. You know, I mean, at one time you had to come down to Winnipeg or in the north maybe you had to go to The Pas or to Thompson. But now you can take these courses online in some cases and then go down for your training in certain areas. So again the opportunities are increasing more and more for students or young adults to have the opportunity to find out what they want to do, basically do some research in it and then go and try on it, and I think that's really important.
I think I want to end, Madam Speaker, with the idea that apprenticeships might not be for everybody but it gives our students, our youth, opportunities that in many cases none of us had. So thank you.
Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Madam Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to stand up to speak, but also to support this bill, Bill 212. The bill proclaims the week of the first Monday in November in each year as apprenticeship recognition week, and basically I want to put a few comments on the record in regards to why we're also standing up to support for this bill.
We respect any and all Manitobans who have seized the opportunity to take part in the apprenticeship program, learn a trade and improve our economy. We also believe when people are given a chance to apply themselves, learn from life job sites and develop a set of employability skills, our workforce gets stronger and our economy improves.
In Manitoba, almost 9,000 individuals are active 'apprentishes'–apprentices in 50 different trades, learning the skills to begin their careers. As we know, throughout the world there's 30,000-plus occupations and of those 30,000-plus, a lot of these people morph into different and newer technological occupations as the years move on. We are proud of the work of Manitoba's tradespeople. They make sure every day that the job is done properly; they build a reputation and they inspire investment in our province.
Our economy needs more people willing to dedicate themselves to the trades in our province, and the apprenticeship programs are how people get started. Designating the first week of November as apprenticeship recognition week is a good way to highlight the successful careers anyone can have in the trades.
As the member from Assiniboia pointed out and the member from Emerson decided to add to, the average age of the apprenticeships–apprenticeship people or tradespeople in Manitoba are 49–are the journeymen, thank you. Manitoba has a strong force of tradespeople, but more are needed to prepare the province for the future.
I'm coming from my past occupation as a high school guidance counsellor, and I've seen many years of the senior years apprenticeship program in full swing and how it opens the doors for many of our young people, but not only open the doors but also open their eyes to all the possibilities that are out there.
When we talk about choices for high school grads, we generally talk about five choices: one is to–right after they graduate–is to go out and get a job; the other ones are universities and colleges; then PVIs, private vocational institutions; and then also, of course, the apprenticeship program.
We need to continue growing and expanding the apprenticeship programs. In high school, students have the ability to get eight credits towards their graduation of the 30 credits that they need for a Manitoba high school graduation diploma now. These work ed credits, or apprenticeship credits, can be then also tied in with the career development credits, which are set up from grade 9 to grade 12, where for every 110 hours of work in regards to the apprenticeship program they get a credit towards their graduation.
Whilst they're doing that, they're getting to earn a–I think it averages around 10 per cent higher than minimum wage through the apprenticeship program, plus the journeyman or the employer gets a kickback as well.
The biggest plus to the apprenticeship program at the high school level is that they're not necessarily stuck. Once we commit to going to university or to college–as we've chatted with students who have attended various of our post-secondary institutions–once they hit a certain timeline, there's sort of no return. They have to either finish off the term or they have to take a financial penalty, I should say. But in high school, for the senior years apprenticeship program, they actually can switch from different trades if they find that one trade or another doesn't quite suit them, and then basically what that does is allow them to continue working towards their credits without really getting penalized.
So if a student has taken grade 9 and 10, let's say, woodworking and they want to carry on into some sort of construction or, say, cabinetmaking, and then they really find that, you know what, the cabinetmaking really wasn't for them but they really wanted to continue, say, with home construction, that they could switch over and they could then go work with a different tradesperson or journeyman and basically continue on their credit journey, I guess, for high school of their eight credits. Then after a year or so, if they feel that they want to then, you know, if they've met a journeyman electrician and they want to then carry on into electrical, they can do that as well and then basically transfer over and carry on on their eight-credit journey again.
Some of the things that I wanted to definitely point out and, over the past few years, have tried to stress is that–the type of courses that apprentices need in order to be accepted into the program. Many people in the past, I think, had a stigma; if you went into trades, that generally meant that you were really good working with your hands, which of course is true, but at the same time, maybe you weren't quite as high of an academic. But we know that, over the past few years, that the levels or the bars in regards to the proficiencies in math and English are definitely higher, so the students going into a trade definitely need that–the applied mathematics, and then even some of them need the pre-calculus math as well.
* (10:50)
Mr. Rob Altemeyer, Acting Speaker, in the Chair
So for that being said, it's nice as adults if we can start educating our youth in the fact that they have to pay attention to those basic skills in regards to math and English, because it really doesn't matter what type of occupation you're going to be doing when you graduate or after you go into some post-secondary education or institutions. You have to keep those skills up, because I know that, whether it's electrical or construction, I want to make sure that the person who's working on my house, my garage, my buildings, whatever that is, are proficient in those skills, and they've done the due diligence on making sure the numbers and the blueprint reading is accurate. So that it's built to the standards and the codes that the Province puts forth.
I'd also like to mention that it's very nice to hear that the member from Assiniboia mentioned the travelling trades trailers that have been parked for many years. I know that there was a lot of money put into them. I think it's a great–it's very encouraging to hear that they are going to be up and rolling and getting out and actually training a lot of our people who are wanting to get into the trades but have had limited access whether it's coming into the city or wherever that they're getting that education piece to their trade.
I'd also like to just quickly mention that I really do feel that in rural Manitoba, some of the barriers that we have in regards to promoting the trades is the fact that sometimes there's just not as many tradespeople or journeymen that are out there that are able to do the training. So I think if the government could again look at the ratio–you know, maybe upping it to 2 to 1 for electrical and those type of things. I know that they have made some adjustments, I guess, to some of the rules. But that being said, I don't think they've quite gone far enough.
But that being said, apprenticeship–apprentices are very important to the health and the economy of our province, and I look forward to hearing some more words on the topic. Thank you.
Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I want to thank the member who just spoke for his support of the bill and the other members of the opposition who have done likewise. So I hope we can pass it today.
Very pleased to say a few words on Bill 212 this morning. And once again, another very important initiative, and exciting initiative, on the part of the new member, and I know that he's working very, very hard in his–in the St. Norbert riding on a daily basis, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I think it's always a good thing to recognize good news, and this bill signifies good news. It proclaims the week of the first Monday in November in each year as apprenticeship recognition week, but it also points to how successful the Manitoba economy has been over the last few years.
The fact of the matter is that we went through a recession in 2008. And I recall coming back to Winnipeg every weekend, and after hearing nothing but gloom and doom all week long from members in Ontario, members in Québec. The whole economy was falling apart. We had to bail out General Motors and save the national economy, the international economy, and employment was rising. And there was never any good news at all. Yet, when I came back to Manitoba, consistently and constantly, I was reminded by constituents of how good things were in this province. It was like we were an island; we were an island in the sea of turmoil. And I think the opposition should recognize that, rather than running around crying about the sky is falling on a daily basis, they should recognize that there are good stories. And I think we saw a little bit of that with the previous member who recognized that things are not as bad as his leadership over there claim on a daily basis that they are.
For example, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Manitoba continues to have among the lowest unemployment rates in the country at 5.3 per cent. We're tied second with Alberta, behind Saskatchewan, which is first at 4.8 per cent. Over the last 24 months, the private sector has added 19,300 new workers; that's a growth rate of 5.3 per cent, third best among the provinces and above the Canada increase of 3.9 per cent. But to listen to the members, you would think that Manitoba was in last place. And, you know, maybe that's just wishful thinking on their part; maybe that's what they really want to see.
Anyway, thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I think I've aroused them enough for the morning session here and I hope we can pass this bill.
The Acting Speaker (Rob Altemeyer): Is the House ready for the question?
Some Honourable Members: Question.
The Acting Speaker (Rob Altemeyer): Moment.
Question before the House is second reading, Bill 212, The Apprenticeship Recognition Act.
Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed]
Ms. Howard: Yes, Mr. Speaker, on House business.
House Business
The Acting Speaker (Rob Altemeyer): Yes, honourable Government House Leader, on House business.
Ms. Howard: Pursuant to rule 31(8), I'm announcing that the private member's resolution to be considered next Tuesday will be one put forward by the honourable member for Brandon East (Mr. Caldwell). The title of the resolution is Brandon Health Care.
The Acting Speaker (Rob Altemeyer): Pursuant to rule 31(8), the private member's resolution to be considered next Tuesday will be brought forward by the honourable member for Brandon East and the title of the resolution will be Brandon Health Care.
Ms. Howard: Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, on further House business.
Would you please canvass the House to see if there's unanimous consent to change the Estimates sequence in room 254 so that the Estimates for the Department of Health are to follow the Estimates for the Department of Entrepreneurship, Training and Trade, with the change to be effective permanently. So that would mean today Healthy Living and Seniors would be in room 254.
Mr. Speaker in the Chair
Mr. Speaker: Is there unanimous consent of the House to change the Estimates sequence in room 254 so that the Estimates for the Department of Health are to follow the Estimates for the Department of Entrepreneurship, Training and Trade, with the change to be effective permanently? Is that–the honourable Official Opposition House Leader?
Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Official Opposition House Leader): Just a clarification. When you say the change to be effective permanently, does that mean that there would be not an opportunity to change again should the need arise? [interjection]
Okay. I received the clarification I need. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker: So is there unanimous consent to vary the sequence of Estimates? [Agreed]
Ms. Howard: Yes, Mr. Speaker, we're prepared to move on to private members' resolutions at this time.
Mr. Speaker: Is it the will of the House to call it at 11 a.m.? [Agreed]
Mr. Speaker: We'll now proceed to private members' resolutions, and we have–the resolution before us this morning is the one sponsored by the honourable member for Selkirk titled Lord Selkirk Settlers.
Res. 6–Lord Selkirk Settlers
Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): I move, seconded by the member for The Pas (Mr. Whitehead):
WHEREAS this year marks the 200th anniversary of the Lord Selkirk settlers' arrival at the Forks; and
WHEREAS the 5th Earl of Selkirk, Thomas Douglas, sought to help Scottish highlanders who lost their lands by establishing three colonies in British North America; and
WHEREAS for the last and most ambitious colony, an area in the heart of the fur country, the Hudson Bay Company granted Lord Selkirk the territory of Assiniboia, much of which we now know as Manitoba; and
* (11:00)
WHEREAS Lord Selkirk recruited disadvantaged peoples from Ireland, Scotland and other countries, who leapt at the opportunity to own their own land and make their way in a new country; and
WHEREAS the settlers showed courage in the face of many challengers and proved that a settled, agriculture community could support life on the Prairies; and
WHEREAS without the help of Chief Peguis and other First Nations people–excuse me–the settlers would likely have starved.
THEREFORE IT BE RESOLVED THAT the Legislative Assembly in Manitoba recognize the role of Lord Selkirk settlers in the creation of this diverse province we now call home.
Mr. Speaker: Is there leave of the House to permit the resolution as printed? [Agreed]
WHEREAS this year marks the 200th anniversary of the Lord Selkirk Settlers' arrival at the Forks; and
WHEREAS the 5th Earl of Selkirk, Thomas Douglas, sought to help Scottish highlanders who lost their lands by establishing three colonies in British North America; and
WHEREAS for the last and most ambitious colony, an area in the heart of the fur country, The Hudson's Bay Company granted Lord Selkirk the territory of Assiniboia, much of which we now know as Manitoba; and
WHEREAS Lord Selkirk recruited disadvantaged people from Ireland, Scotland, and other countries who leapt at the opportunity to own their own land and make their way in a new country; and
WHEREAS the Settlers showed courage in the face of many challenges and proved that a settled agricultural community could support life on the Prairies; and
WHEREAS without help from Chief Peguis and other First Nation peoples, the Settlers likely would have starved.
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba recognize the role of the Lord Selkirk Settlers in the creation of the diverse province we now call home.
Mr. Speaker: It has been moved by the honourable member for Selkirk, seconded by the honourable member for The Pas (Mr. Whitehead) that,
WHEREAS this year marks the 200th anniversary–dispense?
Some Honourable Members: Dispense.
Mr. Speaker: Dispense.
Mr. Dewar: Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker, and it's a great honour to rise in the House today to speak about this important event and, as members may know, the–this is the 200th anniversary of the arrival of the Scottish settlers–or Lord Selkirk settlers in our community.
They'll also be aware, of course, that the Lord Selkirk settlers settled in an area around the Point Douglas area here in Manitoba near–in Winnipeg, as opposed to actually in the community of Selkirk but, Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to have the opportunity to speak today about this important event and what this event has meant to present day Manitoba.
I'm also very pleased that the member for The Pas was–gave me the right–opportunity to second this resolution. I know he's eager to participate as the member for Point Douglas (Mr. Chief) is also eager to participate in this resolution this morning.
Mr. Speaker, it's, as I said, it's the chance to commemorate this important event for Manitoba and western Canada. It was the beginning of the transformation from a hunter-gather society and economy to an economy–to an agricultural-based economy.
It also provided an outpost of the British empire in western Canada, which was a barrier to the manifest destiny plans of the United States. Now, manifest destiny, of course, was the Americans' feeling that they had the divine right to control all of North America and, as you know, they were moving further and further east–excuse me, further and further west, and they also had desires upon the British North America. But, Mr. Speaker, the settlements here, such as the Lord Selkirk settlement, provided a barrier to the US plans to control this part of North America. And one could argue that the event kept western Canada Canadian.
With a blast of a cannon at noon on September the 4th, 1812, summoned local fur traders, Métis and Indians to the forks at the Red and the Assiniboine River. Mr. Speaker, they were–they witnessed an incredible event, which was the Hudson Bay Company's proclamation stating that Thomas Douglas, the fifth Earl of Selkirk, now controlled the earth that they were standing on. The British Crown had granted the Scottish nobleman 185,000 square kilometres of the land surrounding, which was five times the size of Scotland.
Mr. Speaker, as members know, Lord Selkirk was a liberal-minded aristocrat and he had high hopes for this rich grasslands of the Red River area. He had been working for years to relieve the suffering of Scottish and Irish tenant farmers who were driven from their lands by greedy land owners; they were more interested in sheep than people, and the landowners' action forced the farmers into poverty.
As you know, the highlands of Scotland was, at that point in time, was witnessing the clearances, where the Scottish highlanders were removed from their land by the wealthy to allow for sheep farming, and they were thrown out of their homes and, as I said, they were–they lived in poverty. He was, as I said, Mr. Speaker, Selkirk was offended by the actions of his peers, and he worked hard to convince the British government that immigration to the New World would solve the crofters' problems. He had established one settlement in Prince Edward Island and one in Upper Canada, present day Ontario. His most ambitious scheme was to open the great plains of the northwest to settlement. He was a Hudson Bay shareholder so he was convinced that the colony would allow the company to exploit the rich resources in this area, and also, of course, he believed that the Red River was an ideal settlement for a permanent agricultural colony.
Mr. Speaker, you know, the Red River had long been rumoured to contain wonderfully fertile land, but it also was clear to others in England at the time that although it–there was this feeling that there was this great opportunity here, there was also others who were aware that, as we very well know, that the area is–has very extreme prairie winters, and as well, in the springs, very difficult and reoccurring flooding.
Mr. Speaker, in fact Selkirk did not visit the settlement until after his settlers had arrived, but regardless of that, he pushed ahead with his plans. As I said, the Hudson Bay Company granted him a tract of land five times the size of Scotland, and the area would be known as Assiniboia. He was–it was handed over to him for the fee of 10 shillings.
Mr. Speaker, as I said, he had the hope that there would be two-fold benefit: They would have a–Hudson Bay Company would have a steady supply of traders and as well would provide a home for the many displaced crofters in Scotland and Ireland.
The–by 19–the spring of 1811, he had managed to collect an advance party of 36 Scottish and Irish labourers. They were under the command of Miles Macdonell, a well-known individual here in Manitoba. I believe there's a school named after him as well as some other monuments.
Mr. Speaker, the advance party was ordered to make preparations for the main party of Red River colonists preparing to follow in 1812. They left on May the 12th on board the Edward and Ann. Already they had encountered trouble. At least 20 of the Selkirk men had deserted, including all the blacksmiths. Morale and provisions were low; the hull of the ship leaked; and the sails was reported grey with age.
Mr. Speaker, the journey, as one would imagine, from Hudson Bay–or, excuse me, to Hudson Bay was a rough one. The conditions on board the boat were less than ideal. There were no cabins. The–there were a number of Hudson Bay clerks. They weren't separated from the immigrants, and there was no mattresses or bedding, and below deck remained in complete darkness for the entire trip.
After 61 days, Mr. Speaker, the men finally arrived at York Factory, but too late, at that point, to proceed to Red River, so they spent the winter at York Factory. And unfortunately, what happened as well was the ship left, left all their–took all their boats with them.
Mr. Speaker, the–as I mentioned, they left all their ships behind. So this action left the settlers with no transport for the long and gruesome–excuse me–gruelling journey south. The party was forced to winter on the Nelson, and as one would imagine, being on the Nelson River today, you could only imagine what it would be like to live there in 1812. They had only makeshift huts; they had to deal with the terrible cold, little food, and some of them died of starvation, and others died of scurvy. They spent the winter there, and in the spring they left and they made the trip down the Nelson across the Lake Winnipeg in four boats, and they arrived here poorly clothed and half-starved. They arrived at the Red River in August of 1912. Of course, they had no food and it was too late to begin to prepare a crop for the winter, but they were met and they were able to survive by the assistance of Chief Peguis and others. I know the member for Pas will speak to that.
Lord Selkirk would have preferred the party to settle further north by the current Red River–excuse me–St. Andrews church, which I'm familiar with, but Miles Macdonell rejected that idea. He decided that the best part would be–the best land in the valley would be the–during–right here by the–where the Assiniboine and the Red River join. We know that that was unfortunately a foolish mistake because in 1826 that area witnessed the flood of a century, and the largest flood actually in the history of Manitoba. And the colonists, the whole–all of the settlers were forced to leave and they only survived by being able to spend the spring on–in Birds Hill Park.
* (11:10)
Mr. Speaker, the next group arrived, 120 Irish in–immigrants from the Hebrideans including two dozen women and children. They arrived in August and they were–made the journey down here in October, and that began the current Red River settlement as we know it today.
As I said, others are prepared to speak, and I would hope that others would–from the opposite side, would join with us in commemorating this important event. And I encourage all members of the House to pass this resolution so Manitobans will know that their elected officials will recognize this important historical event. Thank you.
Mrs. Mavis Taillieu (Morris): I am pleased to speak to the resolution today on the 200th anniversary of the arrival of the Selkirk settlers and the establishment of the Red River settlement.
I–as I'm listening to the member opposite speak and I'm sort of living the time 200 years ago when settlers or people just like us here, I guess, or our friends and neighbours would have gathered up all their possessions, loaded their children, got onto a big ship to go across a vast ocean to a land they knew not of or what would happen to them there, arrive cold and hungry, I'm sure, then embark on an overland journey to go to another place, carrying their children and their possessions with them over a terrain which I can imagine would be very difficult. If you think about–from the eastern ports where they would have arrived, all the way to Selkirk and to Winnipeg and further on, it–could only imagine the hardships that they would encounter. You can–you know, we talk about the condition of our roads today. Well, I can imagine what it would be like to travel over rocks and bogs where there was literally nothing to follow but, perhaps, a deer trail, and then arrive in a place with no family, no home really, and have to start and build. And this is what we owe the foundation of our province to today, Mr. Speaker, the people that came and built this province.
Now, having said that, I–we certainly need to recognize the people that were here before that helped these people, because I know that without the Aboriginal and Métis people that have been here for thousands of years the settlers that came would have had a very, very, much more difficult time than not knowing exactly what to expect with the harsh winters and what to do to survive. So, certainly, we recognize the role of everyone in the settlement, Mr. Speaker.
And I note that there were several attempts to settle, first of all, in Prince Edward Island, and then in southern Ontario, before Lord Selkirk finally purchased, in 1911, a large track of land called Assiniboia, and this was purchased from the Hudson's Bay Company. And I represent part of that area right now, which Assiniboia would have been a very large area from western Winnipeg all the way out encompassing St. François Xavier. And St. François Xavier was a very prominent Métis community in the province. And even today, when I think about the history of St. Francis, as we call it, the rich history of the route that the settlers, fur traders, buffalo hunters took as they went through down from Selkirk to Winnipeg and out following the Assiniboine River, which would now be along the–Highway 26 which is designated a historical route, Mr. Speaker, because it is the route that the settlers travelled going out as they expanded out further into western Manitoba.
And it's pretty significant when you still think of the names of the people that occupy that area, names like LaFleche, Caron, McCaughan, Roy, Fleury, McDonald, all names that basically are Métis or French, Mr. Speaker. And these are the people that descendants still live in the area, in St. Francis. And I–just a very curious thing, or interesting thing, I would say, is my brother-in-law owns some property west of Winnipeg and there's a bog on that property, and it's farmland, but it's a bit of a bog area, and they were trying to clean that up so that it wouldn't be always wet so the crops are grow better there.
And in doing so, in digging in that area, they found some cannon shot, which was, I'd say, the size of a marble, maybe a little bigger marble, and they found some brass buttons that were–later they determined that they were soldiers' uniforms' buttons.
So that sort of is very historical and just reminds you of what may have happened hundreds of years ago along that route, because that would've been just along the Assiniboine River, just along the route that the settlers would've been taking further west, Mr. Speaker.
I know right in the Headingley area where I live, that was just also on the route, and a very large buffalo crossing and hunters crossing right around the area that I now live. And I know when that area was developed, there was a number of bones–bones–unbelievable number of bones that were found there–buffalo bones, mostly–and a lot of broken pottery, arrowheads and just a very, very interesting find in the area, Mr. Speaker.
Also, I also want to mention the Cuthbert Grant, who was a part of the Battle of Seven Oaks–he led the Battle of Seven Oaks, Mr. Speaker. It's reported that he also had a home in St. François Xavier and, years ago, there was a restaurant opened up on the area called the Medicine Rock Café, and that was opened up on this–purportedly, the site of Cuthbert Grant's home. That restaurant had a very rich history and certainly tried to envelop the flavour of the history of St. Francis into it.
It–it's very significant that the settlers endured such hardship coming here from a country that left them with no alternative to leave the country and to move to another area. My family is of Scottish descent. My family did come to Canada, not as early as 1812–it was more like 1870–but for similar reasons, Mr. Speaker. And these people that came did build the foundation of where we are today, and it's just amazing when you think about how things have–would have changed with their arrival. Much more people coming into the area, recognizing the turn to a hunter-gatherer society because of the rich agricultural land they discovered here in the Red River Valley.
And we know that part of the reason the soil is so fertile in the Red River Valley is because of some flooding that occurs time to time. So I can only imagine what occurred in 1826 when that huge flood came and destroyed a lot of what had been built in the area of the Forks, Mr. Speaker, and probably south of there and north of there as well, because the flood didn't just happen in Winnipeg. I can attest to that. I wasn't here in 1826, but I know that floods don't happen in one location; they happen all the way along the river.
And I certainly have heard from people in the Morris area that one of the things that was very significant is when people settled in the Morris area. It was called the Scratching River there, that the settlement was called Scratching River–something to do with the bushes beside the river were very scratchy, I don't know.
And the native people said, don't settle near the river. You must move further away. And, of course, they knew the reason why. The settlers could see no reason not to settle close to water, because water is what you needed and lots of things grew in soil that was nearer to water and they needed these things, so settlements always occurred near to water.
* (11:20)
But I can recall someone telling me, not that long ago, about the history of the area in which they were advised not to settle so close to water. And, I think, in fact, they didn't settle so close to water in the end, but still as close as–as towns and cities evolve and grow, they get closer to the water than maybe they intended to, Mr. Speaker.
But it's certainly significant; 200 years of settlement starting with the Selkirk settlers, and even before that, Mr. Speaker, the native–Aboriginal people and the Métis people. But it certainly reminds us, over 200 years, how things have changed and we certainly give credit to all those who came before us and settled this great province.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Hon. Kevin Chief (Minister of Children and Youth Opportunities): I want to say it's a pleasure to stand up and talk about the private members' resolution brought forward by the member from Selkirk.
Of course, being a newly elected MLA for Point Douglas, I want to mention a few things about the connection to Point Douglas in terms of its history and where we're at now; also talk a little bit about immigration and how Point Douglas and Winnipeg's North End has always been a place to support newly arrived immigrants; and, as well, touch base–if, hopefully, I have enough time to talk about Sagkeeng's Finest, because there's actually a deep history of the Scottish descent and looking at the cultural significance of the Scottish people, and it actually influenced the fiddle, it influenced some of the square dancing and, of course, now we have Manitoba's finest, Sagkeeng's Finest, just won, of course, the competition. And that is a blend of Scottish heritage, First Nation heritage, Métis heritage, and I would–I always say, you don't have to be Scottish, you don't have to be First Nation or be Métis. If you're a Manitoban, it's part of your heritage and so that's why we take so much pride in what we saw with Sagkeengs's Finest.
Lord Selkirk, of course, appointed Miles Macdonald to manage the newcomers settling in the Red River in 1812. They planted their first bushel and a half of wheat that had brought from–they actually brought it from Scotland and they did it by the Disraeli Bridge. Of course, that's right on the border of the area that I represent. Macdonald took formal possession of the Assiniboine in September of 1812, and from reading some of the history, Macdonald talked about on their campsite on the east side of the Red River, he read the deed of transfer in English and French to a small group of Hudson Bay Company traders, Indians–and I mean, First Nations–and Métis. Three Northwesters were present. Land settlement was chosen on the west side of the Red River north of the point–what is now known as Point Douglas.
And I want to say a few things about that. Some of the street names that honour Lord Selkirk and some of that history, of course, are point–are Douglas Avenue–the area that I represent–Point Douglas Avenue and Selkirk Avenue, and so I get to have the rich history of three different streets being named after this–the Lord Selkirk settlers coming.
I do want to continue to talk a little bit about the idea of the Scottish, the First Nation–you know, the role of Chief Peguis and, of course, the Métis, and some of the cultural significance of that. I'm very proud to be able to be somebody who practises a lot of the cultural significance.
I often talk about the honourable Yvon Dumont, who was the first Métis Lieutenant-Governor in the history of Manitoba, if not Canada. And he's been someone who's mentored me, but has also talked a lot about the history of Métis people, of First Nations people. He's often gone into schools; he spent more time in schools than most Lieutenant-Governors. And he actually talks about the connection of, not only the French, but the Scottish and how it influences the fiddle.
And every Sunday on NCI, I often get to sit with him, and what we do is we play old-time country music and we play fiddling music, and we often talk about, not only the history, but up-and-comers. And so you're seeing people who've passed away that have played fiddle, and we get to play them on the–on this radio show and talk about the different community events that are going on, and you get to hear the wonderful fiddle. But we also get to talk about all the young people, all the children and youth that are taking on that. And so, every Sunday on NCI FM–I don't go every Sunday, but Yvon Dumont, of course, on there every Sunday and promoting this idea of cultural significance and, of course, the deep history to some of the connections to the Scottish and the Lord Selkirk settlers.
Also, I'm also practising, and very proud to say that I do, the square dance. I travel the province of Manitoba. I continue to do that and I get to travel, often, to many parts of Manitoba, also through western Canada and do the jig. Of course, that, once again, is a national–our provincial dance; I consider the Red River jig a significant dance, of course, to Manitoba. And so, we travel and we do the square dancing influenced by the Scottish, the First Nation, and so often what we see–in fact, one of the things that we highlight is, often, when we're out square dancing and we're doing this to this fiddle, you know, a lot of people ask–in the jig they ask often, you know, can anybody do this, or is this just something Aboriginal people do this. And I've got to say, you know, one of the things that we've always promoted around this is that it's a connection, a history for everybody to participate in and get involved in.
And so, on our square dance team, which is a tribute to my late father Norman Chief, we're called the Norman Chief Memorial Dancers, we have the first traditional Métis dancer that happens to be Filipino, and his name is Rob Cueto. And so we, oh, travel the province, and he does something called the Philippine jig where he actually brings in the dance–a little bit of the Philippine dance with the Red River jig. And I've got to say, when you start to blend all these different cultures, and the significance that we have been able to have, has been absolutely wonderful and we continue to do that. And so we get to travel the province and we get to square dance and do those kinds of things. And, of course, we had seen Sagkeeng's Finest implement tap, and they've implemented clogging, but the base of it comes from the traditional dance of the jig; that's where it came from. And where did that come from? Well, that came from influence of the Scottish, the French, the First Nation, the Métis. And so we're able to see what happens when many different cultural groups come together, when we understand our history, and we understand our tradition, and how we blend it too. As we move forward in the future, you get young people called Canada's best talented young people by blending in much of this cultural diversity.
I also want to say–being someone who does represent the area of Point Douglas, I want to spend a few moments talking about how Point Douglas, in Winnipeg's North End, has been an area for many immigrants to come. You know, in the case that we're talking about today, the Lord Selkirk settlers moving from Scotland, you know, to prosper in Canada, and where did they come? They came to the area of Point Douglas–to Winnipeg's North End. And if you go through and you do a tour of Winnipeg's North End, you talk about the deep history of the Ukrainian community and the significance that they've been able to build into the area of Winnipeg's North End; you talk about the Jewish community, you look at their history; you can talk about the Polish community; the German community. And buildings are still there, and many events are still being hosted there, and many of these families that settled there were able to prosper and, you know, build strong families. And now what do we see? Well, we see a huge piece of immigration and lots of people coming and contributing from the Filipino community. So I get to represent many Filipino people coming to build, and build their families, there.
All with the idea of working closely with our Aboriginal people. And so, there's a deep history of not only back in the 1812 and 1813 when we looked at the Lord Selkirk settlers, we continue to do this today, Mr. Speaker. And I just want to say that it's been a pleasure to stand up and talk on the private member's resolution for the member from Selkirk. Thank you.
Mr. Ron Schuler (St. Paul): It is always a pleasure to get up and speak to resolutions like this that deal with the history of this great province. I just find it telling when you listen to some of the comments that have come up. Member from Morris says she came in about the 1870s. And we have others who have heritage perhaps going back 6,000 years–the speaker for Point Douglas, whose family came here when there was nothing and started as the First Nations.
And again, we always get into this thing about Manitoba and Winnipeg and it's all about the immigration dream and that's really what this talks about. And I have the opportunity to represent to more north-of-the-city communities, East St. Paul and West St. Paul, who, you know, were part of that trail. Certainly, West St. Paul with Main Street, the very historic Main Street, which way back then would've been nothing more than a trail or a mud streak at best.
* (11:30)
And very interesting when you drive up and down Henderson Highway from the Perimeter Highway up to Lockport–just some of the historical stuff, some of the older homes, some of the churches, some of the graveyards, and I'd have to say some of them are starting to get old and perhaps a little dilapidated, when you go down River Road, which is just off of Main Street, and you see, you know, now, which are just some of the ruins of some of the buildings. And, you know, that's our heritage.
And I'm an individual who was born here on the Prairies, and it's easy to forget where we came from. We have a lot of family that visits from Europe and we get all excited showing them, you know, our historical monuments, and we say, oh, you know, this building over here, like, it's a 100 years old, or this one–oh, this one's 110 years old or–and, you know, maybe we have something that's 150 years old. And they look at you, point blank, and they say, yes, and where's the history part, because, you know, some of their cities have been there 800 years or 1,000 years.
But then you point out to them, you know, 150 years ago, there was almost nothing here. And when these settlers came, I mean, they came under some of the harshest conditions. I love the story about–one of the speakers was talking–the settlers came, and the first thing you did–which was what you did in Europe–is you always built a city or a town or a settlement right on the riverbank. And I could just see that the local First Nations community, a chief, maybe, would've scratched his head and walked over to the settlement and somehow would have communicated that maybe this wasn't the best idea. And the settlers would be looking at this individual and saying, you know, just leave us, you know; we know what we're doing. And all of us have suffered under the rise and fall of the Red River. And, you know, they knew from the years of having lived here what it was like to survive in this very difficult climate and the harsh nature of our weather. They knew how to survive. In fact, often, the settlers had to rely on the other communities, the First Nations communities and the Métis communities, to actually survive our winters. That's how harsh they were.
So, under these conditions, settlers came. And, if you've studied any of the stories–one of my favourite ones is there was a caravan of wagons was crossing the Prairies and it was somewhere between here and Regina, and in the far distance out west, they noticed very, very dark billowing clouds, and one of the leadership, he was the guide, stopped the caravan and said, okay, we have what's called a prairie fire. And, of course, we, you know, we are talking about fires right now, but prairie fires were a commonplace thing in–on the Prairies. That's how brush was burnt off and fresh growth was allowed to grow. Anyway, it was coming at them at a fairly strong pace, and the people then said, well, it's way too far to get back to any kind of ravine. They'd passed some water, you know, days ago. There was nothing they could do. They couldn't move forward and going back wouldn't have helped any. And he said, well, I'll tell you what we're going to do. And they took their fire, I guess they carried with some kind of fire with them, and they lit a fire right behind them. And they let the fire burn behind them and go further west. And by the time the fire coming at them caught up to them, they just moved onto the area that had burnt off. And that's how they saved themselves.
What without having a guide or somebody who knew how to survive that kind of a thing, they all would've fled and probably been consumed by the flames. Those are the kinds of conditions that the Selkirk settlers would have come under. If you've traveled at all to Steinbach heritage museum, one of the most telling things–and it's always one of these, the bane of anybody who is slightly OCD. When somebody died in those winters, it wasn't like you went out and you started to dig a hole. Now, as the communities grew, they would pre-dig graves so they could actually bury their dead. But when they first arrived, you couldn't go out and bury the dead. You couldn't put it in the snow because the wolves would get them. So what they would do is they would, and, in this case, if you've been to the Steinbach heritage museum, they explain that up high in the rafters, it was very cold. They would actually wrap the bodies, in this case it was a child, and they would hang them tight up against the ceiling where the body would then freeze, so they could bury them in spring.
You know, that's the kind of conditions we're talking about. The–you know, if you've been to Steinbach and you've seen the sod houses, you know, you read some of the children's story books and you think, man, you know, that's a place I'd like to spend a summer. You know, they glamourize it and how neat it was. You know, go walk into one of those mud houses and see what conditions those are, and they're dank and they're wet and if it rains a lot it seeps underneath and there would be nothing like a sump pump, right? At times it was wet in there, you know, or if it got hot, it was very hot in there. They survived and grew their communities because somehow they had to make sure that they survived.
And those are the conditions that the individuals that came before us settled our communities. And it's so easy to drive down Main Street. It's so easy to drive down River Road in West St. Paul that goes through St. Clements and comes out approximately by–I'm–now, the town escapes me, where it comes back onto Main Street. And you drive those–Lockport–just on the other side of Lockport, other side of the river. They're beautiful roads now. And after this rain we've had, you know, can you imagine what the gumbo would have been like, how difficult it would have been, how dirty you would have been by the time you got anywhere on mud roads like that?
You know, these are heroes and these are our heroes, those of us who've decided to make Winnipeg and Manitoba our home, and to those we tip our hat. We give our accolades. They're the ones who created our history, and it's a colourful history. Manitoba has some wonderful history, some interesting history, you know, starting back from settlers way back when, when you start to study how the First Nations actually survived winters and the kinds of things they had to do. I mean, this is purely, purely a country of the hardy.
And Prime Minister Joe Clark always used to say, Canadians settled the tough half of North America. The rest of them, they got the easy half. To settle and to live and to survive here, it's certainly not something for the faint hearted.
And on this resolution, I–as the member who represents West St. Paul and East St. Paul and, to a degree, Springfield, too, the oldest rural municipality in the province–you know, our hat off to all those individuals who settled this great and wonderful province we call Manitoba.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Hon. Flor Marcelino (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Tourism): I thank my colleague from Selkirk for introducing this private member's resolution. Before I add a few words of support to the–my colleague's resolution, I would like to share and invite my colleagues and our constituents to the special events planned to celebrate the bicentennial of the Selkirk settlers.
First off, The Manitoba Museum will host a special exhibit from mid-May to September of this year. Also, recently, last May 16th the Manitoba Historical Society hosted a symposium on the legacy of the Red River settlement with noted historians and scholars. And there will–in September, coming soon, there will be a series of events planned, including a re-enactment of the transfer of land ceremony at The Forks by the Manitoba living–Historical Society–and, also, the highlight would be the visit of Lord and Lady Selkirk to Manitoba in September. So we hope many of my colleagues and our constituents will take in some of these events during the bicentennial.
Mr. Speaker, as–being a first-generation immigrant, I can fully relate with the experiences of these Selkirk settlers as well as the rationale behind their decision to leave their homeland in search of a better life in a foreign land. And just like the experiences of the Selkirk settlers, we first-generation immigrants are grateful to receive the kindness and the welcoming arms and assistance of people who were ahead of us in the communities that we settled in, because it contributed to the success of our settlement in this province.
* (11:40)
There's a very poignant history to the–of the Selkirk settlers–why they left their homeland. To understand why the Scots left their homeland early in the 19th century to immigrate to the wilderness of Canada, it is important to be aware of the Highland clearances, a brutal legacy of the late 18th and 19th centuries.
Highlanders were forced to abandon the land their families had farmed for many generations by landlords who sought greater economic gain from new agricultural processes. However, not all the people recruited by Lord Selkirk were from the Highlands of Scotland. Lord Selkirk settlers also included immigrants from Ireland and Switzerland, and decommissioned members of the De Meurons from Germany.
In my experience, there are many reasons why many compatriots left family, friends and their birth country, and in my case, the Philippines. One of the reasons is economic. At the turn of the 20th century, farm workers were needed in Hawaii and in the United States. Many Filipinos have solid farming background, and so they were lured to work overseas with the promise of higher wages in big agricultural farms. They are vegetable farms, fruit plantations and the like.
By middle of the century, it was the professionals who responded to overseas work offers–doctors, nurses, chemists, medical technologists. In the latter part of the 20th century and into the 21st century it was the engineers and the highly skilled tradespeople who were recruited to work in mega construction projects, mostly in oil-rich Arab countries. Just like the Selkirk settlers, these hard-working, highly skilled Filipino professionals and skilled workers, tradespeople, showed utmost courage and devotion to the job assigned them, so much so that in whatever area they found themselves in, they contributed immensely to the economic success and strong social fabric of those communities.
Mr. Speaker, just like the disadvantaged people from Ireland settled–Ireland, Scotland and other countries, recruited by Lord Selkirk, many disadvantaged Filipinos leaped at the opportunity to start a new and better life in a new country. By disadvantaged it doesn't mean only economic, but also many of those new immigrants felt outraged or disheartened by the prevailing human rights violations and government corruption prevailing in the home country during the conjugal dictatorship of Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos in the '70s.
So, Mr. Speaker, I share the joy and the gratitude that our residents, or Manitobans, have for the early Selkirk settlers, and I thank, again, the member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar) for this resolution.
Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): And it gives me great pleasure to stand up today and speak to this resolution. Because of the constituency that I do represent, that's the first place that the Selkirk setter–settlers set foot in in Manitoba. They came from–up through the south on the Selkirk Trail and the St. Paul's Trail. And I actually farm some land that the St. Paul's Trail goes through, and the crossing on the Roseau River is within a mile of my house. That was the crossing and as–and in the fields today you can still see, even though the fields have been worked with some of the best equipment and some of the best technology that's possible today and in today's agriculture, we still see those ruts that go through the field that the trail followed and where they went up onto the ridges wherever it was possible. So it's a–so when I take a look at the names in our communities, and they represent a lot of the Selkirk Scottish names, and–like the Spences and the Hunters and the Smiths and the Munroes and the Hosicks and Dicksons and Timlicks and Oatways, and there's still–many of the descendants are still in that area.
But the immigration–and this was the beginning of the immigration to Canada and to Manitoba in earnest, to the Prairies, and it's kind of interesting that the Scots were immigrating here because of sheep; the Irish came because of the potatoes, but these were famines. This is what drove them to find a new home or to find a place where they could live out their life and build a new life for their families and the generations that would follow them. In many cases, that's not the case today when immigrants come to Canada. They come for a new life. They want to be able to raise their families in a free and democratic place, but the–I would say the footprint has been laid down by the first settlers that came here that had no amenities whatsoever, and they came because they were hungry. They came because they needed a place where they could call their own. And so the immigrants that come today come for the same reason, but, at the same time, they're forced by wars and things that are well beyond their problems as well.
So, in saying that, I guess I owe the–Manitoba and our history a little bit of an apology. I live right across from the old–the fort site, and I've lived there now for five years. I have an apartment there, and this last week was the first time that I ever walked across to look at the–what's left of the old fort. That's appalling; one should know what your history is and you should go and read the stuff that is out there, and it was very enlightening. I just walked out to see what it was like and I spent an hour out there digesting what was written and that's–and I would recommend that to anybody in the House here that has not had that opportunity to do that. That is part of your history; that's part of your culture, and even for the new immigrants, as the member across the way, this here, will give you a better understanding of what life was like at that time.
And when the Scots came originally and came to Canada, they weren't prepared–or came to Manitoba–they weren't prepared for that winter, and there was, of course, nobody that was laying down a blueprint for them when they got here. There was no housing; there was no food; and so then they moved back down to Pembina, which is right down in my country as well, and they wintered there with the Aboriginals and the natives at that time. So it's a–they have quite a history with your Métis people as well.
And I guess I'd just like to put on the record that it wasn't just the Scots at that time. It was also the Irish and that's part of my history, goes back into my Métis background as well.
But, at any rate, we were talking, and it's been brought up again, about the three young gentlemen that were honoured here the other day, and we were out in the back with the fiddle and the music, and I don't know if it's in your blood automatically or not, but you really wanted to start dancing. And I had a lot of trouble to keep from asking the member from Morris to do a jig out there. She was having trouble standing still too. So it was great to see and I commend those young fellows.
We talked about the–there's been talk about the flood of 1826 and the damage that it did to the settlers here in the city of Winnipeg and at the forks. That flood was a massive flood throughout southern Manitoba and again, like the member from Morris, I don't remember that particular flood, but I have seen and do farm some of the land that it went through and heard the stories from the settlers that were already farming there, and from the–because I live a half a mile from a reservation and talked to the elders over the years, they said there were buffalos in the trees, in the top of the trees, after the flood receded along the Red River.
* (11:50)
When we say that the people settled too close to the water and things like this, I have to say that that water was their highway. The trees were there for their building, was there for their firewood and it also was a place that they could get food. They could get wildlife that sustained them until they started their farming career. And we owe that to the Scottish people that started the agriculture in the area of the Red River and that grew–they grew the first wheat here and Manitoba has become the breeding ground for some of the best wheat in the world, and our agriculture has expanded from that population that first came here.
The Hudson Bay government services included the land titles and some of the religious education, and that was, again, another thing that–it took time to build the things that they needed and that they wanted, their schools and their churches, and so the Hudson Bay Company was a tool for that as well. But that was a beginning of the end for the nomadic hunters, the nomadic people that lived off of the land, whether they were fur traders or trappers or–and the North West Company, I might point out, was pretty upset with the Selkirk settlers because they felt that the Selkirk settlers would take away the pemmican trade that they had with the natives at that time in the area. So there was a certain amount of jealousy; not every Selkirk settler was welcomed by everybody that was here already.
And they–but because of them the city of Winnipeg did grow and so did every place along the Red River, the Assiniboine River and north of Winnipeg in places like Warren, Manitoba, there's a lot of Scottish settlers that settled there.
So with those few words, Mr. Speaker, it's a pleasure to speak to this resolution today, and thank you very much.
Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak to and to support this resolution which recognizes the 200th anniversary of the Selkirk settlers arriving here in Manitoba. This is an important event that we recognize. It is a seminal event in the history of our province and it's certainly marked an important time when the Selkirk settlers arrived here in Winnipeg. And so it's appropriate that we are celebrating this year, the 200th anniversary, recognizing the Selkirk settlers and also recognizing all those who came from Scotland and have made so many contributions to our province.
Mr. Frank Whitehead (The Pas): I want to thank the member from Selkirk for bringing this private member's bill forward and all the speakers that spoke before.
I just want to say that, listening to what has been said so far is like listening in a session of history telling like we used to do when I was a boy in the community; that's the way history was told.
And I want to talk about how the First Nations people contributed to history in different ways. When Chief Peguis and his people first greeted the Lord Selkirk settlers in 1812, they immediately formed a bond because, you know, they come from same backgrounds.
But I want to speak about survival, because it was through Chief Peguis and his people that the Lord Selkirk settlers learned how to survive a land that they were not familiar with, hostile environmental conditions. But they learned how to use the various ingredients of the land to survive: the berries, the many different types of berries that have medicinal values, and plants included wild mushrooms and water lily bulbs and wild onions, and many, many other types of plants that are used to provide nutrition, that have nutritional value. And the trees, the red willow, in between the bark in the red willow there's an ingredient there that's used for many medicinal purposes. The black diamond willow, the birch sap, the white popular bark, the various spruce trees that have medicinal values; all this, they learn how to survive in the land, from the land.
And they also learn how to make tools and weapons to hunt for their survival and their sustenance. But, you know, they were taught these skills, this knowledge so that they can go forward and survive on their own because, in those days, the ways of survival was to learn and move on, on your own. That was the way it was, and still today, for many of us in our communities.
I want to say that the many names that, in our communities today, are originated from these settlers, and the McGillivrays, the Spences, as was mentioned, the Smiths, in our community, the Halcotts in–up north. We have many, you know, connections to the past, but, also, we have connections today that we work together for future considerations.
So we continue to work together in the spirit of lifeward, you know, purposes, and so I congratulate all members here that have spoke highly about this historic occasion that occurred 200 years ago. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker: Is the House ready for the question?
Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the resolution? [Agreed]
Hon. Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): Yes, Mr. Speaker, would you canvass the House to see if there's a will to call it 12 o'clock.
Mr. Speaker: Is there leave of the House to call it 12 noon? [Agreed]
The hour being 12 noon, this House is recessed until 1:30 p.m. this afternoon.