LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Tuesday, March 18, 2025


The House met at 10 a.m.

The Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.

      We acknowledge we are gathered on Treaty 1 territory and that Manitoba is located on the treaty territories and ancestral lands of the Anishinaabeg, Anishininewuk, Dakota Oyate, Denesuline and Nehethowuk nations. We acknowledge Manitoba is located on the Homeland of the Red River Métis. We acknowledge northern Manitoba includes lands that were and are the ancestral lands of the Inuit. We respect the spirit and intent of treaties and treaty making and remain committed to working in partnership with First Nations, Inuit and Métis people in the spirit of truth, reconciliation and collaboration.

      Please be seated.

      We will now go on to private members'–

ORDERS OF THE DAY

PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS

Hon. Nahanni Fontaine (Government House Leader): Good morning, Hon­our­able Speaker. Can you please resume second reading debate of Bill 208.

Debate on Second Readings–Public Bills

Bill 208–The Manitoba Small Busi­ness Month Act

(Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended)

The Speaker: It has been announced that we will now resume second reading debate of Bill 208, The Manitoba Small Busi­ness Month Act (Com­memo­ra­tion of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended).

      The debate stands in the name of the hon­our­able member for Red River North, who has six minutes remaining.

Mr. Jeff Wharton (Red River North): Good morning, Hon­our­able Speaker and colleagues.

      Again, great to have the op­por­tun­ity to stand in this House, as it is certainly a privilege to be here and be able to talk about Bill 208, again, The Manitoba Small Busi­ness Month Act. We–I had a few minutes to open on this bill earlier on and, again, a pleasure to get up today and speak more about the importance of Manitoba small busi­nesses.

      We know that they are truly the driver of our economy here in Manitoba, and recog­nition of them doesn't only fall for a month but it falls every single day. And I know everybody on this side of the House would agree that without small busi­nesses making the sacrifices that they make every single day when they get up, go to work and put food on their table, but in turn provide op­por­tun­ity for their team and their staff to put food on their tables as well; to ensure that Manitobans are strong together.

      We know, however, that under the current NDP gov­ern­ment, even though they put forward a bill that, certainly, we recog­nize as im­por­tant, there are some areas that maybe we need to park ideology and look at, really, what will help small busi­nesses and small and medium‑sized busi­nesses here in Manitoba continue to thrive. And again, some of the ways that the NDP are hurting small busi­nesses, maybe they're not aware but certainly we're happy to put some scenarios on the record that they can look at.

      I know a budget is coming up on Thursday and it's im­por­tant that, in that budget, one of the top priorities–

An Honourable Member: Point of order. On a point of order, Hon­our­able Speaker.

Point of Order

The Speaker: The hon­our­able member for Spruce Woods (Mr. Jackson), on a point of order.

Mr. Grant Jackson (Deputy Official Opposition House Leader): I'd like to request a quorum count.

The Speaker: A quorum count–order, please. Order, please.

      As clearly stated in our rules, with the exception of Tuesday morning in accordance with subrule 4, if there's no quorum present at the start of a sitting day, the Speaker is to adjourn–[interjection] The Speaker is still talking, by the way. So the Speaker is to adjourn the House for the sitting day.

      So clearly, there is no call for a quorum count this morning.

      So therefore, there is no point of order.

* * *

Mr. Wharton: Again, it gives me great privilege to stand up and talk more about small busi­nesses on this lovely Tuesday morning where quorum counts are not relevant.

      Eliminating the school tax rebate for com­mercial busi­nesses and raising property taxes to the tune of over $150 million will be one area that the NDP gov­ern­ment should be con­sid­ering come Budget 2025 when they rise in this House on Thursday to talk about how they're going to support small busi­nesses.

      Again, it's great to recog­nize them for a month, the month of May, and again, every single day when the folks of Manitoba get up and go to work every day to support their families, their small busi­nesses and the people and the teams that they work with every single day.

      We know that eliminating the personal basic amounts and raising income taxes on doctors and engineers and other pro­fes­sionals is going to be a deterrent for them to stay in this province. And, you know, they–we talk about doctors, and again, the great work that they do. Well, doctors are a small busi­ness. They essentially are small busi­ness owners. They hire their own staff, they have their own ability to rent or lease or purchase a property where they can function and serve in their practice every single day. They are a small busi­ness, Hon­our­able Speaker, and I think the NDP needs to put a focus on this, again, when they go forward, under­standing that every time you raise a tax, you're raising it on not only those small busi­ness owners, but our doctors, and we have a shortage of doctors, as the NDP knows.

      We know that, so we want to make sure that we have a busi­ness environ­ment that will be welcoming to our doctors, that are small busi­ness owners and partners in growing our economy and ensuring that we have enough services, like social services, edu­ca­tion and, of course, health care in these very challenging times.

      You know, we know that the NDP last fall essentially ran through BITSA and essentially will ban busi­nesses from replacing workers during the strike–during a strike to ensure busi­ness and supply chains are moving forward. Well, we know that when busi­nesses shut down, case in point, during the pandemic, we had a serious concern with supply chain. We know that it essentially shut down the world, Hon­our­able Speaker. We know that not being able to go to a grocery store and grab some­thing off the shelf during that parti­cular time was a challenge.

      Well, guess what? When companies have to shut down and can't bring in support workers to ensure that Manitobans are getting the products they need every single day, this is going to be a deterrent for them as well. And again, small busi­nesses are going to hurt for it. So I want the NDP to understand that when they come to Budget 2025 this coming week.

* (10:10)

      We also know that one of the areas that came of a concern back in 2018, a Mr. Kenneth Klassen told the Legis­lative com­mit­tee, and I quote: Manitoba has the lowest gasoline taxes in Canada. If you want to be the cleanest and greenest province, it makes no sense. We need reform on how we charge for gasoline in the province.

      That's a scary, scary comment by now this individual, that's working with the NDP. As a matter of fact, he goes on to saying he's been hired as the energy advisor and he wants to charge PST on home heating, Hon­our­able deputy Speaker. That's going to hurt busi­nesses. I mean, busi­ness owners have to pay utilities, just like Manitoba families, every single day. They have to continue to ensure that the heat stays on, especially in an environ­ment like Manitoba, and like Winnipeg.

      So, we know that this individual, Mr. Klassen told the Legis­lative com­mit­tee, and I quote again some­thing that has bugged me for 30 years: the PST exemption on home heating fuels. That doesn't make sense. Why are we exempting from–tax non-renewable fossil fuels? Well, busi­ness owners are going to be standing up on Thursday saying: Why is Mr. Klassen wanting to put PST now on our home heating and our busi­ness heating, Hon­our­able deputy Speaker.

      I have a little bit of time left, so with that I will say: keep going, Manitoba busi­nesses; keep fighting for Manitobans.

The Speaker: Member's time has expired.

Mr. Josh Guenter (Borderland): I am happy to rise this morning to put just a few words on the record with regard to Bill 208, The Manitoba Small Busi­ness Month Act, and talk a little bit about the importance of small busi­nesses.

      And coming from an area that has many, many small busi­nesses and growing busi­nesses, they start small, many of them do, and they become esta­blished and they become suc­cess­ful and they grow. And we've seen that in my con­stit­uency, in the con­stit­uency that I have the distinct honour of repre­sen­ting.

      And so, I can think of a number of them. And you  know, I think, well, one comes to mind, Elmer's  Manufacturing, which is a very suc­cess­ful manufacturing busi­ness in Altona, just north of Altona, was started by Elmer Friesen who is a farmer, still farms, I believe, and you know, made a–and he had a need for a–I think it was a grain cart, farm implement, anyway. And they do make grain carts and among other things, harrows, and things like that.

      But so he spent a winter building one. And, you know, as it goes, neighbours, other farmers said, hey, why don't you make me one? And so he started to do that, and a busi­ness was born. And started out small and now they employ hundreds of people and they contribute massively to our local economy in Altona and across the region. And so that's a success story, and there are others as well.

      Icon Tech­no­lo­gies, which employs many people from the con­stit­uency that I represent, is located in the con­stit­uency of the member for Morden‑Winkler (Mrs. Hiebert). It's right on the bound­­­­ary there so, you know, we can play tug of war over that. But another great story. Icon Tech­no­lo­gies started out just as a small operation and is now a wildly suc­cess­ful busi­ness.

      There are many others. There's Jablonski's in St. Jean which does, you know, it's an electrical, they do AC and heating and a whole bunch of things, services that they provide. And so there are many examples, many more examples that I can think of. But needless to say, you know, we've got a lot to be proud of in our province, and we have a lot to champion.

      And it's im­por­tant that we get behind Manitobans, families who put their savings at risk. They invest their hard‑earned dollars and they'll mortgage their homes and they'll put capital at risk to strike out on an idea that they have. And of course, you know, success is not guaranteed. And–but they're willing to fight through the right–red tape, the regula­tions. They're willing to fight through adversity, you know, whatever the–markets may change and they're willing to go through all of that in order to provide their product or their service to their neighbours and to their com­mu­nities. And so that's–that entrepreneurial spirit is so im­por­tant to our province and to our country because without that, real wealth doesn't get generated and we would all be much, much poorer for it.

      So it's that entrepreneurial spirit that, really, we've got to champion. And I think a gov­ern­ment really has to, I think more often than not, get out of the way. Let Manitobans do–they know best how to spend their money. They know best how to make decisions in their own interest, in the interest of their families and of their com­mu­nities. And it's im­por­tant for gov­ern­ment just to get out of the way.

      You know, yes, there's a need for a–some–you know, a base level, perhaps, of regula­tions, but it's im­por­tant that small-busi­ness owners, those who are willing to strike out and make some­thing of them­selves and take an idea and run with it and invest in it, that gov­ern­ment, rather than trying to stymie that effort and kill it, the gov­ern­ment gets out of the way.

      And I think of a quote by Ronald Reagan–I've shared it here in this House before–but, you know, he said that the liberal view of the economy is that if it moves, tax it; if it keeps moving, regulate it; and if it stops moving, subsidize it. And I think all too often we see in this Chamber how gov­ern­ments will put their foot on the brake. And then finally, when they see the damage that their regula­tions and tax hikes are doing to busi­nesses, to our economy, then they open up the coffers and they want to spend hard‑earned tax dollars to try to juice the economy. And that never works well, either. So just let Manitoba busi­ness owners do what they do best and we'll all be the richer for it. We'll all be the better for it.

      And so, like I said, proud to come from an area with very strong entrepreneurial spirit. It's probably one of the things we're best known for in southern Manitoba, and it's some­thing that Manitobans can be proud of. So I–and like I said, I shared some examples of suc­cess­ful busi­nesses. There's more that I could provide.

      And I talked about how gov­ern­ment needs to get out of the way, and I think it's im­por­tant to reflect on the last budget that the NDP brought forward. And we know that the prov­incial budget will be coming down, their second prov­incial budget will be coming down later this week and–but we know that the last one was not good, was not good for small-busi­ness owners, and–was not good for small-busi­ness owners–and so the prognosis isn't good for this one either.

      I don't think–I think people are holding onto their wallets and at a time when it's im­por­tant that gov­ern­ment champions, you know, our local busi­nesses and gets behind them, the last thing they need is more tax hikes. The last thing they need is more regula­tions. And that's what we saw in the last budget.

      And for instance, the last budget, which governs the current fiscal year we're in, included legislation to allow Manitoba Hydro to raise rates up to 4 per cent. That has a very real impact on small-busi­ness owners. And by the way, it's a promise broken. The NDP had said they would not be raising–they would be freezing hydro rates. Well, that didn't happen. We've now got legis­lation–NDP legis­lation in place that allows Manitoba Hydro rates to increase by 4 per cent per year. So that's just one item.

      They eliminated the school tax rebate for com­mercial busi­nesses, and they raised property taxes by $150 million–

An Honourable Member: Relevance.

Mr. Guenter: It's very relevant. It's very relevant. It's very relevant. Small busi­nesses pay property taxes, and when the NDP gov­ern­ment–and when the member for Seine River (MLA Cross) supports these tax hikes, small-busi­ness owners suffer. And it's that member, the member for Seine River who said in debate last week that small-busi­ness owners don't pay PST. I wonder what Manitoba small-busi­ness owners think of that comment. I wonder if Manitoba small-busi­ness owners–[interjection]

The Speaker: Order.

Mr. Guenter: –some of whom–[interjection]

The Speaker: Order.

Mr. Guenter: –we have on this side of the House, Manitoba small-busi­ness owners could fill these galleries–[interjection]

The Speaker: Order, please. Order. Order.

      Members can quit hollering back and forth across the aisle. I understand that we sometimes disagree with each other, but there's a proper way to do it and hollering back and forth is not the proper way.

* (10:20)

Mr. Guenter: As I was saying, I wonder if Manitoba small-busi­ness owners could fill these galleries today, and they're hard at work. The–many of them probably got up at 4 o'clock this morning and went to work. So they're not able to be here. So we are here to speak for them and their interests.

      And if those busi­ness owners could listen to the member for Seine River who said just last week that small-busi­ness owners don't pay PST, I beg to differ and I think they would beg to differ–they absolutely do.

      And I have worked for small-busi­ness owners who have had the PST auditors come in, the tax auditors come in, and they've tried to do every­thing right, and those auditors will still find some­thing, and you pay tens of thousands of dollars, and you pay interest, and–because of these arcane, complex rules with regard to PST.

      So that's just one area small-busi­ness owners have to fight through. And it's im­por­tant that gov­ern­ment gets behind, rather than like this NDP gov­ern­ment taxing them and trying to kill their dreams.

Introduction of Guests

The Speaker: Before recog­nizing the next speaker, I'd like to draw everyone's attention to the public gallery where we have seated from École Howden 30 grade 4 students under the direction of Janelle Gagne. This group is located in the con­stit­uency of the hon­our­able member for Southdale (MLA Cable).

      On behalf of all hon­our­able members, we welcome you here today.

* * *

Mr. Wayne Balcaen (Brandon West): I'm proud to rise today and talk about The Manitoba Small Busi­ness Month Act, parti­cularly as small busi­ness is so integral to the economy of Manitoba.

      About 90 per cent of busi­nesses that we have within Manitoba come into that small-busi­ness area, and I know many of my colleagues on this side of the House own or operate or manage small busi­nesses and are very aware of the challenges and the dif­fi­cul­ties that surround small busi­nesses.

      In parti­cular, I know farming is one of those areas that can be–start off as small busi­nesses but grow exponentially into our medium- and large‑size busi­nesses within Manitoba. So I would like to thank all of our ag producers and farmers within Manitoba for starting these small busi­nesses and making sure that they are contributing to our economy, making sure that Manitoba stays vibrant within our communities.

      But, as I represent Brandon West, and it's divided by 18th Street between Brandon East and Brandon West, I know that many of you will be visiting Brandon in the near future for the Royal Manitoba Winter Fair, and as you bounce along 18th Street, that was scheduled to be finished last year by October but unfor­tunately never happened under this gov­ern­ment, so, again, you'll be–

The Speaker: Order, please.

      I would ask the member to keep his comments relevant to the bill that we're discussing.

Mr. Balcaen: I was just getting to that part.

      As you're moving down 18th Street, you'll notice a number of areas on the west side that are the small busi­nesses of Brandon. And, as a matter of fact, all along 18th Street is a number of small busi­nesses that have been started well before I was the MLA for that area, but I'll high­light a few that have happened in the last little bit.

      In the Brandon Shoppers Mall, which is in the constituency of Brandon West, they recently had the Sylvan Learning Centre open up there last year. I was happy to present them with a certificate. Again, small busi­ness that will help develop young minds, help them with their edu­ca­tion, and I know that they opened up because they weren't seeing the same numeracy and literacy rates under this gov­ern­ment, so they are welcome to open up and help these young minds grow.

      And again, just down from my con­stit­uency office, two doors down, is the Kumon learning centre that just opened within the last very short bit. And again, surprising that the NDP gov­ern­ment started in '23, and all of a sudden we had two learning centres that had to pop up in Brandon because of, you know, the lack of numeracy and literacy that is being offered during this gov­ern­ment. So I would like to thank those small busi­nesses in parti­cular that are helping grow the minds of our future leaders and entrepreneurs where they come forward with this area.

      Hon­our­able Speaker, if I move over a little ways to 34th Street in my con­stit­uency, a little bit further west, Brandon West, we find Fun Time Pottery, and I  was absolutely thrilled to present them with a 15‑year certificate of being an in­de­pen­dent, really unique busi­ness within Brandon West where there can be parties for kids. They can learn pottery; they can do the painting and the firing of all of their pottery. Not only that, it caters to adult parties as well where they can create some really unique gifts and have that ex­per­ience.

      So I wanted to high­light a few of these spots that have opened up. But what I know Brandon West is lacking and there's been a challenge is daycare spots. And Brandon was slated to have two new schools built under the previous PC gov­ern­ment that were abso­lutely just chopped off the edu­ca­tion table when this gov­ern­ment came in. And having this elimination of not only the two new schools but the hundreds of daycare spaces that this would have provided, would have allowed people to enter, work at small busi­nesses, start small busi­nesses or partici­pate in the supply chain with some of the small busi­nesses. But unfor­tunately, the NDP gov­ern­ment chose to slash those programs and therefore, many of the people in Brandon West, and I'll even say in Brandon East where the minister of munici­pal affairs resides, suffers as well.

      And if we had these daycare spaces that were promised under the PC gov­ern­ment, we would have a number of individuals that would be able to support the local economy through that 90 per cent of small busi­nesses. Not only that, the construction trade that would have happened for small busi­nesses–electrical, mechanical, whether it be the concrete workers, whether it be the builders in construction–there's many, many small busi­nesses that would have reaped the benefits of building those two new schools in Brandon and those daycare spaces.

      But unfor­tunately, the NDP gov­ern­ment chose to cut this, to pull the rug underneath these workers and say, you know what, we don't care about small-busi­ness workers; we don't care about the value that you bring. And then they turn around and bring up a small-busi­ness month bill to say, hey, we support you, but on the other hand, we don't. We'll do whatever we can to knock you down, but to gain a little bit of popularity, we'll bring this bill forward so that everyone can think that they're on side. But we look at–there's, as the minister may have put, 21 ways to save, there's also 21 ways that this gov­ern­ment has cut the value of small busi­nesses in their short time in office. And I know that will change again in the near future, and we'll get back on track with small busi­nesses and what busi­ness is all about.

* (10:30)

      One thing that I can talk about, too, is in the last budget, Hon­our­able Speaker, $9 million was cut from  the justice system funding; $9 million that impacted cuts to the prov­incial policing program, to Victim Services, to courts and corrections, as well as the Manitoba Criminal Intelligence Centre.

       And these cuts affected small busi­ness because crime is one of the leading areas that causes small busi­nesses to shut down. I'll note, just across the way from the Legislature, here, there was a number of small busi­nesses in Fort Rouge, that would be the Premier's (Mr. Kinew) own riding, that were shut down, because of safety concerns and because of the lack of care by this NDP gov­ern­ment, putting people and their busi­nesses first, allowing this proliferation of crime and of damage that happens across that area. It was shameful, quite frankly, Hon­our­able Speaker.

      So, as my colleague from Borderland said: Individuals know best how to spend their money. And how they spend their money and how they make their money shouldn't be punished. And the punishing taxes that this gov­ern­ment, this NDP gov­ern­ment, has put on small busi­nesses and individuals that make more than a certain threshold–the idea getting into small busi­nesses is to make money, to generate that income, so you can have employees, so you can pay people. But of course, whoever starts these small busi­nesses reaps those benefits as well. And having these punishing taxes that this NDP gov­ern­ment has intro­duced causes small busi­nesses to move to other juris­dic­tions and, you know–Saskatchewan or Alberta, that are welcoming, although let's look at the fact that Brandon West really deserves these small busi­nesses, and I would like to thank each and every one of them.

      Thank you, Hon­our­able Speaker.

Ms. Jodie Byram (Agassiz): I am pleased to stand here today and put a few words on the record in regards to The Manitoba Small Busi­ness Month Act. And I'd also like to take a moment here to celebrate the many small busi­nesses across rural Manitoba, spe­cific­ally Agassiz.

      We all know these busi­nesses are the heart and soul of our com­mu­nities, that of which, like I said, we all know. They are truly the backbones right across our province here. They're not just shops and services. They're the livelihoods of our families living in these com­mu­nities and the spirit of entrepreneurship and hard work is demon­strated through­out these small busi­nesses.

      These busi­nesses are vital for several reasons and a lot of which my colleagues here have high­lighted. We all understand that they provide essential goods and services, create jobs, and again, contribute to the local economy. Each one of you, whether you run a cozy cafe shop in Kelwood in Agassiz, or a pharmacy store in Gladstone in Agassiz, each one of these plays a crucial role in shaping the character of the area. They bring unique offerings to the table and cater to the specific needs and tastes of the com­mu­nity.

      In Agassiz, I want to high­light just a few of our local small busi­nesses. In MacGregor, we see busi­nesses supporting the ag industry and again, colleagues have commented on the importance of agri­cul­ture across our province of Manitoba. And there's many small busi­nesses, both urban and rural, that support the ag industry, provi­ding fresh produce and goods to feed our families.

      In Carberry, we have a cute little boutique, the Gull and Castle. It's got clothing and for anybody that needs a little bit of retail therapy, it's a great place to visit in rural Manitoba.

      In Austin, there is a very unique new business. It's the Austin Woollen Mill. It's a new busi­ness, it was opened up in 2023, and it serves a very unique niche, where they process natural fibres like wool, alpaca fleece, create yarn, roving and other products. And it's a shop that showcases the creativity and the talent of the local artisans in that area while provi­ding a very unique product to a specialized com­mu­nity.

      Treherne has a great, rich history and thrives, thanks to the dedi­cation of the small busi­ness owners in that com­mu­nity, who understand the importance of being connected to their com­mu­nity and serving that area.

      Rathwell, I just visited this busi­ness not long ago. It's a–got a unique busi­ness, N3 Inc. It's–provides remote car starters, two‑way radios and other security systems. And Rathwell is a very small com­mu­nity. They also have Real Industries. They manufacture livestock feeders.

      But Rathwell is a very small com­mu­nity, but these small busi­nesses are such an integral part. They have a grocery store there that is a common area for the folk to get their local–or to get goods in that rural com­mu­nity. I guess, what I want to high­light here, is the impact that those small busi­nesses have in rural Manitoba, where they provide such an im­por­tant, im­por­tant service to the area.

      Rotor's Bakery in Neepawa is a restaurant–a  bakery restaurant serving Filipino food and delectables. It's recently expanded its operations and now grown so that it has seating to accommodate for those who wish to sit and order food inside, and that's, again, serving another area when it comes to restaurants; another small busi­ness filling a com­mu­nity's needs.

      And those are just a few examples in Agassiz, spe­cific­ally. Again, I want to share with you the success of these busi­nesses and hopefully continued success. Many have had to come over obstacles. Some maybe opened during COVID. Some maybe had to get over the hurdle of navigating through those challenging times, and for small busi­nesses, that can be a hardship.

      And we all know when we shop locally, we're not just purchasing items. We're investing in our neighbours, our friends and the future of our com­mu­nity. They often sponsor local events, donate to charities, support youth sports teams; we've all seen that. And this also is a sense of com­mu­nity. It reinforces the ties that bind us together as com­mu­nity.

      And as we navigate the challenges of today's economy and the increasing costs of doing busi­ness, we must take an effort to shop locally and to promote these busi­nesses and services on social media, as well as share our positive experiences as we do so.

      Many of these busi­nesses will be feeling stress and angst with the looming tariff threats that are in the air. And in addition to those threats, we also have to pay attention to what's happening here right now with this NDP gov­ern­ment and the impact that some of these changes that this NDP gov­ern­ment have brought in, the impact that's going to have on some of these small busi­nesses. It can, you know, hinder the success of some of these busi­nesses.

      One thing we can talk about is the school tax rebate for com­mercial busi­nesses. It's imposed a burden, raising these property taxes, and I know my colleagues have brought forward the implications that this brings to small, local busi­nesses. They're already having to navigate tight financial margins and this, again, just imposes another complication in that.

      The decision to eliminate personal–basic personal amounts to–and raise income taxes on pro­fes­sionals like doctors and engineers doesn't just affect the individuals; it has a ripple effect on our local economies. Like my colleague from the–Red River North mentioned, these doctors' offices and clinics are small busi­nesses, so it does ripple down and have an effect on those busi­nesses in our com­mu­nities.

      Another topic: this current gov­ern­ment defunded The Green Team program significantly and forced non‑profit organi­zations to make cuts and layoffs. This impacted jobs in local com­mu­nities and non‑profit organi­zations who already have struggled to see ends meets, and that's, in turn, affecting services available to families in our towns.

* (10:40)

      You know, some of the other Legis­lative changes that the NDP brought in were the bills buried in BITSA. They–the decision to ban the use of re­place­ment workers during strikes disrupts the continuity of busi­ness, making it harder for them to operate during challenging times. That's another sig­ni­fi­cant impact that small busi­ness can be faced with, based on some of the NDP's legis­lation.

      Repealing the regula­tory accountability act with-out con­sul­ta­tion. And we hear that often. This NDP gov­ern­ment lacks that con­sul­ta­tion component when it comes to making some of these im­por­tant decisions across our province. Manitoba small busi­nesses are calling for a commit­ment to reduce red tape. The absence of accountability measures only exasperate the burden of regula­tion.

      The cancellation of contracts for new schools–and again, my colleagues have high­lighted some of that. And again, the ripple effect that this has on our local economies is sig­ni­fi­cant. The cuts to parks funding and the slashing of job offers for inter­nationally trained workers diminishes resources, again, available to our com­mu­nities. Hydro rates: again, everybody here that turns the lights on, has the heat on, has a Hydro bill and this gov­ern­ment has–going to take action to increase that.

      But one thing I do want to say here, Hon­our­able Speaker, is these aren't just shops. They are part of our identity. We need to support them, celebrate them and ensure that they flourish for many, many years. Small busi­nesses are critical to our local economy. It's supporting giving our com­mu­nities jobs and benefiting in many, many other ways.

      And again, my colleagues have said Manitobans know best how to make money and let's continue to support small busi­ness.

The Speaker: Member's time has expired.

Mr. Greg Nesbitt (Riding Mountain): Well, good morning, Hon­our­able Speaker, and it's my privilege to get up today and speak on Bill 208, The Manitoba Small Busi­ness Month Act, and let me first start out by indicating that, you know, on this side of the House, we fully support small busi­nesses here in Manitoba. In fact, many, many of my colleagues have operated, or continue to operate small busi­nesses here in the province and I don't think the gov­ern­ment caucus can say that. So I'm not sure they really understand the trials and tribulations that small busi­nesses have when they come to work each and every day.

      Small businesses, you know, are real drivers of the economy here in Winnipeg and especially on our main streets in rural Manitoba. Some busi­nesses in my area have been in families for 70, 80, 90 years. They continue to be family operations. They employ many, many people in our con­stit­uencies and every two weeks, they have to meet the payroll and they're always at the whim of gov­ern­ment regula­tions, of gov­ern­ment taxes, changes to things. And I think that, like I say, I don't think the recog­nition of small-busi­ness owners is–they're not recog­nized enough.

      And proclaiming a month as small busi­ness month, that's fine and dandy. It's a commemorative name. It's a special month–doesn't mean a lot to most small-busi­ness owners. I don't think so. What really means to small-busi­ness owners is how their gov­ern­ment treats them: the amount of taxes they charge them, the amount of supports they give them, the amount of red tape that a gov­ern­ment can eliminate to make the small-busi­ness owner's life much easier.

      I think my colleague from Red River North brought up earlier about a simple thing that this gov­ern­ment did that really affected a lot of small-busi­ness owners in Manitoba was the elimination of the small amount of com­mis­sion that a small busi­ness would get for collecting the prov­incial sales tax. As a small-busi­ness owner for well over 40 years, monthly, you did your PST return and you remitted religiously, your money to the prov­incial gov­ern­ment. But you also got a 15 per cent com­mis­sion on the first $200 of sales tax you collected and a 1 per cent com­mis­sion on the balance.

      Now it doesn't sound like much, but for a very small busi­ness who collected $200 of PST in a month, they would get $30 for filling out that paperwork and sending their money religiously into the gov­ern­ment. For bigger busi­nesses like car dealers, implement dealers, anything like that, it was a con­sid­erable amount they got for doing the collection.

      And this gov­ern­ment, with the swipe of a pen in last year's budget, without much fanfare and not thinking about small busi­nesses, they cut that com­mis­sion out completely. There was very little com­muni­cation to small busi­nesses, either. I think they did receive a letter from the tax de­part­ment indicating on such and such a date it was going to be taken out. No explanation.

      Busi­nesses are doing the–still doing the same amount of work, but they're not getting any com­mis­sion. And that's an example of the hypocrisy of this bill for the gov­ern­ment. They're wanting to declare small-busi­ness month and trying to tell us that they're doing good work for small busi­nesses, but it's actions, not words. And I think that simple PST com­mis­sion cut really, really affected the psyche of a lot of small busi­nesses, thinking, does this gov­ern­ment really ap­pre­ciate us or are they just looking at this as another tax grab for doing their work? So very unfair, in my opinion.

      And I think even though Bill 208 looks to recog­nize small-busi­ness month here in Manitoba–which, again, I think is very im­por­tant–again, it's the taxation on small busi­nesses, property tax hikes. I mean, they're going to be really affected by property tax hikes in Manitoba. They're affected by the payroll tax; I think my colleague has talked about that already. Small- to medium- to large‑size busi­nesses pay various payroll taxes depending on their payroll.

      And I guess I've never understood the payroll tax. It's a penalty on busi­nesses for hiring employees, and I don't really understand the–I understand the reason for a tax, because you need more taxes, but there must be other ways to tax profits of companies a little bit more and eliminate the incentive to hire employees.

      I think all the payroll tax does here in Manitoba is encourage more and more busi­ness to go to self checkouts, perhaps more automation, eliminate employ­­­ment and things like that. And I think there's a stat that shows that our unem­ploy­ment rate in January is one of the highest in Canada here, and perhaps this regressive payroll tax is certainly part of that.

      And I know, on this side of the House, we're calling for its elimination, and maybe in Thursday's budget the Finance Minister will stand up and tell us all that the payroll tax is being–I wouldn't say eliminated, likely phased out; maybe the thresholds will be increased. But at some point, I think a gov­ern­ment's got to take a stand and get rid of that payroll tax. I'm not sure it'll be this gov­ern­ment, but it will certainly be our gov­ern­ment when we're back in power.

      Again, we talked about basic personal amounts and raising income taxes and especially on doctors and pro­fes­sionals in our com­mu­nities. That's not helping with recruitment of pro­fes­sionals into our com­mu­nities, and that affects small busi­ness. The less people that live in our com­mu­nities, the less pro­fes­sionals we have in our hospitals and things like that, our small towns suffer. They don't grow. Yes, there's some small–some com­mu­nities in Manitoba that are growing, but there's many that are staying stagnant or dropping. The small-busi­ness numbers are dropping on small towns in Manitoba, and I think that's a function of not having enough pro­fes­sionals in com­mu­nities. You draw more people into a com­mu­nity to shop if there's a pro­fes­sional, if there's a hospital, things like that.

      I mean–and living near the border is another problem, my colleague from Turtle Mountain just reminded me. You know, repre­sen­ting a border riding, there's more op­por­tun­ities in Saskatchewan for people. There's–we've had busi­nesses just move across the border. The tax regime is different. They seem to feel supported by a gov­ern­ment. The fuel tax is different–every­thing. The income tax is different.

      I have an accountant friend that tells me that there's a six- or seven‑hundred–six- or seven-thousand‑dollar difference on a $100,000 T4 between Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Manitobans pay six or seven thousand dollars more in taxes here in Manitoba compared to Saskatchewan.

      So when you're living close to the border, as people do in my con­stit­uency and the member for Turtle Mountain (Mr. Piwniuk), there's no real reason why you can't just slip across the line and buy a house and, even though you're working in, perhaps in the potash mine in Saskatchewan, you live in Manitoba; you're starting to think, you know, $6,000 a year, that really adds up over time.

* (10:50)

      So I think our tax regime certainly has to be looked at for both small busi­nesses and for the residents who live in our com­mu­nities that support those small busi­nesses.

      Now, I have a list here of 21 ways the NDP is costing small busi­ness money, and I don't have the time to get into them all and there's so much, and I know my colleagues have talked about them as well.

      I mean, even cancelling school contracts in com­mu­nities. Com­mu­nities in Manitoba are concerned for their schools. A school is a focal part of the com­mu­nity, similar to a hockey rink. If you lose the school in a com­mu­nity or one doesn't get built and you can't accommodate people, then they're going to move to another com­mu­nity.

      So I think the NDP is being very short‑sighted in cancelling school projects which our gov­ern­ment had approved. Our gov­ern­ment had nine new schools and thousands of new classroom seats and daycare spaces approved. Again, with the swipe of a pen, those were cancelled under this gov­ern­ment.

      So there's many, many more. You know, there's personal‑care homes. Again, that's another reason. I mean, if your mom or dad needs to go in a personal‑care home and there's no space there, they'll go to a bigger centre. In turn, that family that wants to be around their parents, if they can, move to a bigger centre as well. That hurts small busi­nesses in com­mu­nities.

      Every dollar that stays in the com­mu­nity spins around. I know there's a stat out there somewhere about a dollar spent in a com­mu­nity, how many times it changes hands in the com­mu­nity. Unless you lived in a small com­mu­nity, you don't really see the result of spending local in com­mu­nities. You'll always see these buy local campaigns, things like that. And similar to let's buy Canadian products, buy Manitoba products–perfect, that money spins around in the province.

      So I do support Bill 208, the small busi­ness month act, and I don't think you'll find anybody on this side of the House that doesn't. Again, we're all small-busi­ness people, and if we're not small-busi­ness people, we're small-busi­ness people at heart. We represent many, many com­mu­nities in the majority of rural Manitoba over here.

      So again, I encourage this gov­ern­ment to take action to support small busi­ness. Don't just talk, take action.

      Thank you, Hon­our­able Speaker.

Mr. Doyle Piwniuk (Turtle Mountain): You know, I just want to put a few words on Bill 208, the importance of small busi­ness in our province of Manitoba.

      And I want to thank the member for Seine River (MLA Cross) who put this forward. But it's interesting; I believe that she's the only one that actually has one of the small busi­nesses in that caucus. And it's kind of ironic that this bill has been called today, and the lack of interest on that side, where there's less members to even support this bill.

      So it just shows you–our side, how many members here–there are here, how im­por­tant small busi­ness is. So it just shows you the NDP, they don't care. They really do not care when it comes to small busi­ness. They have no interest. They look after their unionized friends and making sure that they're looked after.

      But when it comes to small towns, especially in rural Manitoba, especially when my colleague from Riding Mountain had indicated that we live so close to the Saskatchewan-Manitoba border, it is so im­por­tant that we compete with Saskatchewan and Alberta.

      And right now, way that the NDP is actually setting up their tax systems in this province–when we were in gov­ern­ment, we tried to do every­thing possible to make sure that we can–are competing with our neighbours, Saskatchewan and Ontario. Because the fact is, busi­nesses, invest­ment–they have choices where they want to invest to.

      We're finding right now, especially in the oil patch that I represent–I used to represent Arthur-Virden; that used to represent over 90 per cent–95 per cent of oil in this province–more and more of those busi­nesses are located in Saskatchewan because of the tax rates. There's no, when it comes to–I'm surprised Tundra's still here.

      When it comes to the–with this NDP gov­ern­ment wanting not to look at–when we came in for a reso­lu­tion about the payroll taxes, Tundra actually employs a lot of employees in this province, and the fact is they're talking about more of their operations are in Saskatchewan.

      So this is very con­cern­ing, Hon­our­able Speaker, when it comes to small busi­nesses. They bring forward this small busi­ness act, and really, they're far from having any empathy on busi­nesses.

      Especially when it comes to edu­ca­tional taxes. Right now, in rural Manitoba, especially in Turtle Mountain School Division, Fort La Bosse School Division, and Brandon School Division and Park West. There are many, many more increases when it comes to property taxes. We're seeing a 15 per cent increase in property taxes.

      And what we were doing, Hon­our­able Speaker, in our gov­ern­ment, we were giving rebates back to small busi­nesses. They're going to be getting rid of those rebates and they're going to be racking up property taxes when it comes to the edu­ca­tion side of it.

      Again, they're looking after their unionized teachers. They are one of the highest paid teachers and teachers are paid the–almost the second highest in the country right now, Honourable Speaker. And I remember back in the day of the–dark days of the Selinger gov­ern­ment, they were–actually, they were paying teachers almost the second highest, just like they are doing right now.

      And the interesting thing was we were dead last when it came to edu­ca­tion system. The students were–

The Speaker: Order, please.

      I would remind the member to keep his comments relevant to the bill we're talking about.

Mr. Piwniuk: I was talking to the tax rate when it comes to not supporting small busi­nesses. This is why I wanted to talk about the edu­ca­tional taxes, because the fact is, we were dead last when it came to education, for the amount of money that we put into our edu­ca­tion system. And the fact is the funding right now, it's not–when it comes to small busi­nesses, it is not going to be able to sustain that, Honourable Speaker.

      And it's going to happen, is that more of our busi­nesses, especially in the–that were quite close to the Manitoba-Saskatchewan border, more of those busi­nesses are going to go to Saskatchewan. They do not have a payroll tax. Like my colleague says, from Riding Mountain, there's like–accountant said there's, like, six or seven thousand dollars' difference when it comes to $100,000 worth of income.

      I've got a brother who works at the potash mine in Esterhazy. He lives in Manitoba; he loves Manitoba, but there's going to be a time where, you know, his daughters both work in the potash mine, and they might have to make that decision because of the tax  situation when it comes to Manitoba versus Saskatchewan.

      And the fact is, Honourable Speaker, those people are–actually spend money in our busi­nesses in our rural areas of western Manitoba. So it's so im­por­tant that, if they're going to respect small busi­nesses, they've got to make sure–especially now, we're looking at tariffs coming forward. In my con­stit­uency of Turtle Mountain, basically two thirds of Turtle Mountain straddles the US border. And that is a big impact.

      We have many manufacturers in Turtle Mountain right now. And one is PhiBer. They make equip­ment for machinery for–equip­ment for dairy farms. They do–they have–they're actually expanding–they expanded in the last few years, and they actually are one of the biggest employers in my eastern side of the con­stit­uency. And they're looking at the way that they've been attacked by taxes and every­thing that's coming at them, especially tariffs. They may now have no other choice but to, actually, if they're going to expand, is expand in the US.

      Because the fact is, this is an impact to a small busi­ness in Turtle Mountain. PhiBer, who actually is located in Crystal City, Manitoba, employs a lot of people. Crystal–I would say Crystal City belongs to the RM of Louise, was the fastest growing con­stit­uency in my–in Turtle Mountain. And the fact is the population grew because of this employer and many other employees–employers around there–the spinoff effects of small busi­nesses in the area.

      And so the fact is, if this busi­ness does relocate or they expand to the south, this is a big impact for the area. This–the RM of Louise was the only munici­pality in my con­stit­uency that actually had a higher popu­la­tion than the Manitoba average, whereas my other–especially on the western side, because we compete with Saskatchewan, there's depopulation. And the depopulation is our tax system that I think that more people are setting up busi­nesses and choosing to live into Saskatchewan.

      And the fact is, right now, when it comes to doctors, and my colleague from Riding Mountain talked about doctors. The fact is we need tax reve­nues; we need popu­la­tion to keep our doctors in our rural areas. And the fact is when you don't respect small busi­nesses and they shut down or they move elsewhere, then you have less population and less services, especially when it comes to health care and edu­ca­tion, too, and–for that fact.

      And the fact is here, is that if our popu­la­tion, especially around the Saskatchewan-Manitoba border, if you look at all the munici­palities, most of them have dropped over the last 10 years, Hon­our­able Speaker. That's why boundary com­mis­sions, when we do boundaries in this in–for repre­sen­tation in this Legislature, we're finding that in–especially in western part of Manitoba, our con­stit­uencies are getting much larger and larger. They're almost getting as large as some of the northern con­stit­uencies in the North because the fact is the competition with other–

* (11:00)

The Speaker: Order, please.

      When this matter is again before the House, the hon­our­able member will have three minutes remaining.

Resolutions

Res. 5–Encouraging Manitobans to Support Local

The Speaker: The hour is now 11 a.m. and time for private members' reso­lu­tions.

      The reso­lu­tion before us this morning is the reso­lu­tion on–No. 5, Encouraging Manitobans to Support Local, brought forward by the hon­our­able member for Seine River.

House Business

The Speaker: The hon­our­able member for Waverley (MLA Pankratz), on House busi­ness.

MLA David Pankratz (Deputy Government House Leader): Yes, on House busi­ness; pursuant to rule 34(7), I am announcing that the private member's reso­lu­tion to be considered on the next Tuesday of private members' busi­ness will be one put forward by the hon­our­able member for Radisson (MLA Dela Cruz). The title of the reso­lu­tion is Homelessness.

The Speaker: It has been announced that pursuant to rule 34(7), that the private members' reso­lu­tion to be considered on the next Tuesday of private members' busi­ness will be the one put forward by the hon­our­able member for Radisson. The title of the reso­lu­tion is Homelessness.

* * *

MLA Billie Cross (Seine River): I move, seconded by the MLA for Elmwood,

WHEREAS the looming threat of the tariffs proposed by U.S. President Trump is an attack on Canada and who we are as Manitobans and Canadians; and

WHEREAS Canadians need to be united in response to this attack; and

WHEREAS the Provincial Government is making life more affordable for Manitoba small busi­ness owners with a permanent 10% cut to the gas tax and rebates to homes and businesses for security upgrades so Manitobans can grow their businesses and support their family with a good quality of life; and

WHEREAS Manitoba has a rich and diverse economy, and Manitoba workers provide essential goods and services to the province and the world; and

WHEREAS the Provincial Government is taking immediate steps to protect Manitoba jobs and safeguard the economy; and

WHEREAS Manitobans are being encouraged to buy local and buy Canadian because where that money is spent matters; and

WHEREAS the Provincial Government is leading by example and reviewing all gov­ern­ment procurement policies and contracts; and

WHEREAS by prioritizing Manitoban and Canadian products and services the Prov­incial Government is supporting the farmers, producers, businesses and workers who are the backbone of the economy here at home.

      THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Legis­lative Assembly of Manitoba urge the prov­incial gov­ern­ment to continue its efforts to protect Manitoba jobs and the prov­incial economy by encouraging Manitobans to buy local and buy Canadian.

Motion presented.

MLA Cross: With over 40,000 small busi­nesses that make up 95 per cent of the busi­ness sector here in Manitoba, small busi­nesses are the backbone of our economy, Hon­our­able Speaker. However, they have not always been treated with the respect and support that they deserve.

      The previous gov­ern­ment underfunded busi­ness support programs while writing cheques to cor­por­ate giants. In fact, during the pandemic, one of their members received a $500,000 grant that was supposed to help local small busi­nesses, but instead, it resulted in many women-owned busi­nesses in the Exchange District shutting down completely because there were no supports.

      We need to stand together as one Manitoba as we prepare for the incoming Trump tariffs on April 2nd, and that includes supporting small busi­nesses and our small busi­ness com­mu­nity all across our province. The imposition of these tariffs has provided many Manitobans with a lot of uncertainty and anxiety as they are trying to figure out how this tariff war will affect them, their families and their busi­nesses.

      I've heard and seen first‑hand the concerns and impacts the potential tariffs have been having on our small busi­nesses com­mu­nity. Many members of the–my com­mu­nity and my own family are small busi­ness owners, so I know from personal ex­per­ience just how hard small busi­ness owners work to do good and to give back to their com­mu­nities.

      Manitoba small busi­nesses drive our economy. They create jobs, helping to support you and your family in your efforts to build a good life. They support our producers, helping to distribute their goods for the whole com­mu­nity to enjoy. They build up our com­mu­nity by reinvesting their earnings right here in Manitoba.

      Supporting local has never been more im­por­tant. Small busi­nesses are going to be some of the first to feel the impacts of a tariff tax, which is why we need to make sure they have the necessary tools to prepare for the economic dif­fi­cul­ties ahead.

      They already face a multitude of barriers outside of these looming tariffs, struggling to compete with cor­por­ate giants. Whether small busi­nesses are in the retail, agri­cul­ture or tourism industries, they need to know that we all have their backs.

      Hon­our­able Speaker, our NDP gov­ern­ment has been working tirelessly to weatherproof our prov­incial economy and make sure that we keep it strong during this economic storm. We created a US Trade Council made up of representatives from various industries and sectors across our province to prepare for the tariffs and to make the case that Manitoba has what Americans need.

      We have also been encouraging Manitobans to buy local, because where we spend our money matters. When we buy local, we're supporting our fellow com­mu­nity members, people that we know share the same values, interests and desire to see our com­mu­nities succeed.

      Buying local means that we are reinvesting in our com­mu­nities, which means that we, as com­mu­nity members, directly reap the benefits of the purchases that we make. This is because two-thirds of every dollar we spend at a small retail busi­ness recirculates in our local economy, as opposed to only 6 cents of every dollar spent at an online giant.

      So shopping local reinvests eight times the amount into our province than supporting a giant chain does. Buying local is the most ethical way to shop because we know how the products we make and how they are prepared. Small busi­nesses often buy their ingredients and decor from other local small busi­nesses. This then means that supporting small local busi­nesses can help lower your carbon footprint.

      Small busi­nesses are leaders in our com­mu­nities, They sponsor com­mu­nity events, sports teams and donate their time and money to local organi­zations. Because of this, we also know exactly who will profit from our hard-earned dollars: other hard‑working Manitobans.

      Small busi­nesses are grand com­mu­nity hubs. We are so lucky to live in such a diverse province with in­cred­ibly vibrant com­mu­nities. However, not all com­mu­nities are equally represented in the small busi­ness com­mu­nity. Only 12 per cent of small busi­nesses in Manitoba are owned by women. With programs that support aspiring young Indigenous and gender-diverse entrepreneurs, we are not only helping Manitoba thrive, we're also helping more diverse com­mu­nities thrive.

      Found in the heart of Seine River and just a few steps from my con­stit­uency office is the St. Norbert Farmers' Market. It's open all year round for com­mu­nity members to come together, support local farmers, abattoirs and food pro­ces­sors. Even on cold winter days, the market has seen bustling crowds of people walking through the aisles of pop‑up tents, getting to know the vendors and enjoying the goods that they are selling.

      The vendors of the St. Norbert Farmers' Market and small busi­nesses all across the province are seeing an increase in customers because of the media attention surrounding buying local. It's been heartwarming to see everybody rally together in this uncertain and difficult time. And it is only solidified that we are all truly, one Manitoba, with one future.

      These tariffs are not a party issue; they concern us all. It is im­por­tant that we all come together to make sure that Manitoba jobs are protected so that they can continue to support their families. Small busi­nesses are still struggling to recover from the impacts of the pandemic. This is part of the reason why it is so im­por­tant for all of us in this Chamber to support them so that they can continue to do the good work they do for their com­mu­nities across this great province. No matter your back­ground, we're in this together, as Manitobans and as Canadians.

      Hon­our­able Speaker, small‑busi­ness owners are strong and resilient. Even so, protecting our jobs and safeguarding our economy is a collective respon­si­bility. Small busi­nesses can't do this alone and we as consumers play a very im­por­tant role in this. I encourage every Manitoban to go to local farmers' markets, try our a new restaurant, walk into that small retail busi­ness you've been wanting to check out, because when you do, you are helping create a stronger and much more resilient Manitoba.

      Thank you, Hon­our­able Speaker.

Questions

The Speaker: A question period of up to 10 minutes will be held and questions may be addressed in the following sequence: the first question may be asked by a member from another party; any subsequent questions must follow a rotation between the parties; each in­de­pen­dent member may ask one question. And no question or answer shall exceed 45 seconds.

      The floor is now open for questions.

MLA David Pankratz (Waverley): The local and small busi­ness com­mu­nity is–

The Speaker: Order, please.

Mr. Richard Perchotte (Selkirk): It's very im­por­tant that we do support our small busi­nesses.

      Can the member for Seine River explain why her NDP gov­ern­ment is making life more expensive for Manitoba small busi­nesses by eliminating the school tax rebates for com­mercial property owners?

MLA Billie Cross (Seine River): You know, today we're talking about buying local, supporting local, buying Canadian, and so, in doing that, I think the most im­por­tant thing to remember is that when we support the citizens around us, we are making life more affordable for everyone.

* (11:10)

      We're increasing competition against those online giants, against those great, big conglomerates that seem to try and take over all of our industries. And so it's really important that, as consumers, we buy local, we buy Canadian. Buy Manitoba‑made products as much as you can.

MLA Pankratz: The local and small-busi­ness com­mu­nity is so varied. They're hard‑working, strong, you know, here in Manitoba, and their goods and services range from ag to retail to food, beverages and they employ so many folks in our province.

      So my question to my colleague is: What are some of the small and local busi­nesses that you frequent?

MLA Cross: That's a great question, honestly.

      I've always been a consumer that is very con­cerned who I'm buying from. I check labels. I make sure that when I'm going to a restaurant, I want to know what–a little bit about that restaurant.

      There's a  local restaurant that just opened not far from me; it's called Dave and LaVerne's. It's a brand‑new place in Southdale, it's a fantastic res-taurant. Great atmos­phere, kind of has a '50s‑style vibe. That's one of my favourite restaurants to go to.

      Bakeries–I can't say enough about Le Croissant in St. Boniface. I love their croissants and their baguettes, it's one of my favourite places to go. There's also Bothwell–Fromagerie Bothwell on Provencher that I go get local cheese and make sure that I buy Bothwell Cheese instead of buying Kraft at the grocery store.

      So buy local, support local–

The Speaker: Time has expired.

Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield-Ritchot): Has the member spoken to small-busi­ness associations, chambers of commerce, et cetera about what we can do to remove regula­tions and make it easier for small busi­nesses to prosper?

MLA Cross: Yes, great question, thank you for the question.

      I have actually done a lot of those con­sul­ta­tions, and I'm constantly talking to small-busi­ness owners. Because my office is located next to the St. Norbert Farmers' Market, I make it a point of going there once a month to talk to all the vendors and small-busi­ness owners. I've taken trips outside of the city to visit their different locations when they're not set up at the farmers' market.

      They're all saying the same thing: It is so im­por­tant for the people here in Manitoba to support them, whether it be when I'm having a con­ver­sa­tion with Chuck Davidson, when we're talking about my small busi­ness month bill. He's thrilled with the idea of having a marketing campaign that can be structured around supporting our local Manitoba busi­nesses.

MLA Pankratz: So Manitoba has tens of thousands of small and local busi­nesses, and, you know, these busi­nesses survived tough times under the former failed PC gov­ern­ment. And while our gov­ern­ment is focused on supporting small busi­nesses, we continue to hear divisive comments from the op­posi­tion, spe­cific­ally from Turtle Mountain, for example, taking shots at fire­fighters and teachers, some of whom are actually small-busi­ness owners as well.

      So my question is: How did the former failed PC gov­ern­ments let down small busi­nesses while they were in power?

MLA Cross: I can tell you, as a small-busi­ness owner, as a family–coming from a family of small-busi­ness owners; my sister owns a busi­ness, my father owns a busi­ness, my aunt owns busi­nesses. We're entrepreneurial people. We didn't feel any support coming from the former PC gov­ern­ment–nothing.

      When the pandemic hit, we were waiting to see what kind of supports there would be prov­incially–nothing. What did they do? They put forward $500,000 to support the MLA for Fort Whyte, where he created a company to take in goods from local busi­nesses to make his money on their goods by tacking on, you know, a little extra for himself.

      The support was not there. I watched women-owned busi­nesses in the Exchange District close down while that member opened his shop right across the street. It is one hundred per cent accurate what I'm saying.

      The support was simply not there.

Mrs. Carrie Hiebert (Morden-Winkler): It's disappointing to hear what we're hearing here from the other side right now. We're here to support small busi­nesses and that's what our focus should be today.

      Can the member from Seine River tell us what the current gov­ern­ment is doing spe­cific­ally, other than advertising on social media and billboards?

MLA Cross: You know, it's interesting that this member is disappointed because another member and I went out and supported her local small busi­ness in her com­mu­nity, made a point of doing that, because we believe in it so much.

      Our gov­ern­ment is doing every­thing we can to ensure that small busi­nesses don't feel the negative effects of the imposing tariffs. We've created a trade council made up of members right across this province, to represent all sectors, to represent all workers, to represent all busi­ness owners. We are listening. We constantly listen and com­muni­cate with our con­stit­uents–I–on a regular basis. As I said, I am talking to small-busi­ness owners. I am trying to meet their needs as best I can.

      I mean, gov­ern­ments, we do as much as we can. We can't do every­thing; we all know that that's–

The Speaker: Member's time has expired.

MLA Pankratz: Our NDP team is taking action to help small and local busi­nesses after so many years of rising costs. You know, we started this by cutting the prov­incial gas tax for one year, and then extended that into a permanent 10 per cent reduction in gas tax, which ensures it will never be as high as it was under the former PC gov­ern­ment.

      You know, my question for my colleague is: What can Manitobans do to continue supporting small and local busi­ness?

MLA Cross: Thank you for that question.

      They can shop local. Go to the local butcher; go to the local bakery. Go to the produce stands and farmers' markets. Buy local eggs. Buy direct from a farmer. Support the people that are producing things in our province. That is the best thing that anybody can do.

      That–the gas tax cut that we made last year had a huge impact on busi­nesses in my com­mu­nity. I represent a great number of greenhouses down St. Mary's Road, and I can tell you every single one of those owners and all the people that do busi­ness with them, landscapers, were thrilled with the gas tax. They knew that it was going to come back, but us cutting it by another 10 per cent and keeping it down was a huge win. And when we–as we're freezing hydro rates, I know they're equally excited for that.

Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): A C‑F‑I report of small busi­nesses has shown that the highest tax burden that small busi­nesses face is actually the payroll tax.

      So can the member please explain why her gov­ern­ment refuses to phase out the job‑killing payroll tax at a time when busi­nesses are struggling the most?

MLA Cross: It's ironic that the questions coming at me are simple fixes that they could have done while they were in gov­ern­ment but choose–chose not to. Always pointing the blame. Members opposite take no accountability for their actions while they were in gov­ern­ment, none what­so­ever. It's like they've forgotten what's happened. It's so interesting.

      I was a small-busi­ness owner. I felt no support. I can tell you members of my family felt no support either. They're just upset right now that we are a gov­ern­ment that talks about small busi­nesses, that we want to support them. They feel like they've cornered the market on small busi­ness because they own busi­nesses. That's not the case.

MLA Pankratz: You know, Hon­our­able Speaker, the hypocrisy coming from the other side today, again, is hilarious, to be honest. They kept a payroll tax in for seven years, every year they were in gov­ern­ment, when they could have gotten rid of it, and then they choose to argue with us about it. You know, we'll keep working on that, having those con­ver­sa­tions, but I just want to give my colleague one more op­por­tun­ity, because I think this is a really im­por­tant reso­lu­tion today.

      So just expand on why it is so im­por­tant that we support local busi­nesses here in Manitoba, spe­cific­ally. And just some of the great work, maybe, that is being done across her con­stit­uency, with small busi­nesses as well.

      Thank you.

MLA Cross: Thank you. Great question.

      Small busi­nesses are so generous in their time and the way that they give back to com­mu­nity. We know that when we go to local sporting events, tournaments, you're often going to see donations made by small busi­ness to help that team, to help that organi­zation raise a little bit of money for–maybe they want to buy sweatshirts or maybe they want to buy sweatpants for their team.

      I know that my husband and my daughter, who run a small butcher shop, they offer fundraising op­por­tun­ities whereby we cut the amount of profit we might make on some­thing so that that team, that organi­zation can make a little bit of money to help their group out.

      Small busi­nesses do so very much to help our com­mu­nities. They are here; they listen. They are members of our com­mu­nity. They sit in this Chamber. We're all in this together. And so–

The Speaker: Member's time has expired.

Mr. Perchotte: Other than a slogan to buy local and support local, what plan is in place to help the small busi­nesses? What actual plan?

MLA Cross: Well, I mean, we've been working really hard to support small busi­nesses. Last year it was removing the fuel tax. That was huge for small busi­nesses.

      We've maintained a 10 per cent cut off the amount that they were charging small busi­nesses. We are freezing hydro rates this year. That is huge for small busi­nesses, whether they understand that or not, especially for industrial busi­nesses or busi­nesses that are producers. We have a trade council, where we have people from small busi­nesses working toward solutions to make sure that our economy is strong, here in Manitoba.

* (11:20)

The Speaker: The time for questions has expired.

      The hon­our­able member for Springfield-Ritchot (Mr. Schuler).

Mr. Schuler: When the member suggested she spoke to busi­ness associations and chambers about regula­tions that could be removed, could she tell us–

The Speaker: Order, please. Order, please.

      The member for Springfield-Ritchot possibly didn't hear when I said the time for questions had expired.

Debate

The Speaker: The floor is now open for debate. [interjection] Order.

      The floor is open for debate.

Mr. Richard Perchotte (Selkirk): As I mentioned in this Chamber several times, I am a small-busi­ness owner and have been since the age of 16. Having the ability to be supported by people in my local con­stit­uency and my local area within the province, and even within Canada, is very im­por­tant to the survival of busi­nesses. In parti­cular, the current busi­ness that we have or–has been impacted by tariffs over the number of years.

      When Donald Trump came to office in the last term, he imposed a tariff on US steel that was purchased from China. That–you wouldn't think that would impact a small company in Selkirk, Manitoba, but it has a great impact and that's why we need people to support locally. When he put that tariff on Chinese steel, the American market looked over at their existing suppliers and said, we need to buy locally, and they bought from the US steel companies.

      Unfor­tunately in Canada, the steel that we buy, our mechanical tubing, there is no manufacturers of that in Canada so we're forced to buy in the US. When we looked to the US to buy and place an order, they came and said, well, our mills are now at capacity because everybody is buying US steel instead of Chinese steel now, and because of that, we have to run extra shifts and we have a great demand on our facility, we have tre­men­dous extra costs and our input costs have jumped up dramatically, so your pricing has gone up.

      And it takes a little while to understand the true economics of what just happened there, but the result is our raw costs went up 40 per cent. And we had orders in place at the time, orders that we had to supply, were waiting for the material to come from the US, and with the 40 per cent increase in our raw costs of our raw steel, we didn't have any profit left.

      So we did not have the op­por­tun­ity to go back to the customer, or we chose not to go back to the customer and say, we're going against our word. And luckily, these were people that were local, supporting us. We explained to them, they–we have an issue; we have pricing here, after looking to buy our product in the future, it's going to be a tre­men­dous cost. And they understand that and they recog­nized us as being respectful, to being honest and being true to our word to deliver the product.

      Now, when we come to 2025, we have, again, tre­men­dous economic uncertainty from the US: tariffs on, tariffs off, tariffs on, tariffs off, we're doubling them, we're not doubling them, it's 25, it's 50. And we don't know what's going on. But prior to this, I hedged a bet and I bought two truckloads of steel and had them come to the plant for my son to manufacture buildings with, so we're able to hold product for the near future.

      And we're able to say to the people who come locally to buy our product how much we ap­pre­ciate them. And there's–they would be an op­por­tun­ity if we were a little greedy to say, the price is now here; we can make a better margin. But we choose to keep the price that we reflect to the customer based on what we paid for the steel and not try to take advantage of a situation, and people appreciate that. And that's what you get when you shop local. You shop local with your friends, your neighbours, colleagues in your com­mu­nity.

      And I know the member for Seine River (MLA Cross) has spoken many times about restaurants and bakery shops and, you know, fromageries, but small busi­ness is a little bit more than that as well. We have manufacturers of product. We have welding shops. We have machine shops. We have places that manufacture zero‑turn mowers. We have foundries through­out our province. We have these small companies employing thousands and thousands and hundreds of thousands of people every day that depend on their livelihood from that company.

      And these small-busi­ness owners, they put their financial dollars at risk every day. And some days it's not pretty.

      When we looked at when COVID hit, my little company in Selkirk was on a banner year to do the greatest sales we ever had. We had orders all through­out the US, orders in California, Salt Lake City and even Boston Uni­ver­sity was going to be purchasing from us.

      But when COVID hit, we had materials in place, we had the manpower in place but we were not allowed to go and install our product. And we had great customers that we've done work with in the past and they said, Richard, we'll wait. We know this is going to be temporary, we'll wait.

      Well, the waiting got a little longer and a little longer and a little longer. And they came back and they said, unfor­tunately, we're going to have to cancel the contract and we expect you to refund us our deposits. That year was a $400,000 loss for this little company in Selkirk that employs about 10 people.

      As a busi­ness owner, we could have done many things. We could've said, sorry, we're going to cut our losses, we're going to liquidate, we're going to turn around and see what we can recapture, sell off our equip­ment and materials, lay these people off.

      Or do we do a reset? Keep the employees at work. Their families depend on it. The com­mu­nity depends on it. Their futures depend on having the ability to pay their mortgages, to pay their automobile payments and to be able to come together as a com­mu­nity. And we made a conscious decision at that point that we need to focus more on local busi­ness.

      Even though the US market's attractive and we can do a great job down there because we've got the skill and the know‑how and we're priced competi­tively, better advantage because of the dollar, we made a conscious decision to focus within Canada, to reach out to the people who've purchased from us before and say, how is it going in your industry, is there anything we can do to help you, is there any upgrades that you need on your buildings? Please let us know we can do.

      And they came to the call. They chose to support once again. And, in 2024, we had our banner year with zero sales in the US. We didn't make back profitability where we were, we know that's going to take a long time, but it's a shop local, buy local, support local mentality that we have.

      And the small-busi­ness owner isn't just the mom‑and‑pop shop that you go in there and the guy is slaving over a hot grill and getting up at 4 o'clock in the morning to make sure that he's prepping for the day, or the bakery that is showing up at 3 o'clock in the morning to make sure that fresh bread is ready when you're–when the store opens at 9 o'clock; it's everybody in our com­mu­nity, all the manufacturers. It's even the accountants, the lawyers, the doctors that we have, that's all small busi­nesses that count on red tape being reduced, count on the gov­ern­ment of the day to make sure things are better for them.

      Many years ago, when I had a machine shop, we'd go on trade missions down into the US, and we'd go to Minneapolis, Chicago, Las Vegas, and we'd set up a wing, we'd call it the Canadian aisle, and there'd be a lot of manufacturers from Manitoba that were there. It was a great trip.

      Very rarely did I ever pick up a sale from any other entity other than the people that came with us. I would come back and just about every company that was represented from Manitoba became a customer of mine.

* (11:30)

      If we could invest time and energy and to grow our economy by showing the small busi­nesses who is available in the area, develop trade shows within our own province that show the capabilities of each of the organi­zations that choose to be a part of that, we have an op­por­tun­ity to really support local.

      Countless hours are spent by the owners sacrificing every day from their family, from their friends, from their vacation properties, if they have them, to make sure their busi­nesses are functioning, and we need to recog­nize that. We need to support that every single day to make sure that these busi­ness owners are valued and valued by this gov­ern­ment.

      On that note, I thank everybody in the Chamber for listening.

      Thank you.

Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield-Ritchot): Well, I'd like to add my voice to this debate. Surprising whether a New Democrat wants to speak to this, but I guess the only small-busi­ness owner on their side has already spoken and the rest have really very little to say on this.

      So, first of all, I would like to say that I'm perturbed that in her first sentence of her speech, the member for Seine River (MLA Cross) attacks her opponents, real or imaginary. I'm not too sure that that is how you help shop local.

      This is a very im­por­tant issue, and I was listening intently to the member for Selkirk (Mr. Perchotte) and it's interesting. He goes to a trade show in the United States and picks up most of his busi­ness from other Canadians, rather than from Americans walking by.

      I had the op­por­tun­ity to be in busi­ness. I had some retail here in the city. And again, we really ap­preciated when American tourists came and they shopped, and they were very good shoppers in the summer. But I also started a catalogue sale busi­ness and I had a Canadian division and a US division, which I ran out of an office in Edina, which is a suburb of Minneapolis. And that's where we had our PO box, and we had someone open up the mail and they would do our banking for us there.

      After 9/11, I became aware that–and again, this isn't to disparage the United States. They're our neighbours; we share a big border. But busi­ness is busi­ness and I realized quickly that the United States will always be for free and open commerce, as long as it benefits them. And if it doesn't benefit them, they then change the rules to benefit them and that's their idea of a free and open system.

      I realized very quickly that I could not compete against competitors in the United States. They would go to the parent company and anything and every­thing, whether real or imagined, they would criticize what I was doing and finally, I drove down to Detroit and I walked in on my competitor and I said, why don't you just buy me out? And I sold them the whole US side of my operation. Actually, it was the best thing I ever did. And then I focused on catalogue sales within Canada.

      Interestingly enough, many, many, many of my clients from the United States wrote back and said, why are you not sending us your catalogue anymore? Why are you not doing busi­ness in the United States? And I said, I've divested. And they indicated that as soon as I was out of the market, the prices went up 50 per cent; they doubled.

      And that is how the United States does busi­ness. And I think we have to be aware of that. And I think we have to be cognizant of the fact that we now have a sense within the United States–and we pinned it all on one individual, but I believe there is a sense in the United States that the world has taken advantage of the US, that any kind of economic failing is not because of their busi­ness practices or the way that they are doing things; it is everybody else's fault.

      So what are we going to do to help our local busi­nesses? And I asked the member for Seine River (MLA Cross), whose only thing she seemed to be interested in was attacking members in this Chamber. And that was very unfor­tunate.

There are–and the reason why I–Mr. Speaker, I couldn't hear you previously was the member for Point Douglas (Ms. Smith) was heckling so much, and now she's starting it again. And may–the member for St. Johns (MLA Fontaine), who just heckles the whole time. She just heckles members, and this should be a bill that we should be agreeing on, because this is im­por­tant; we're facing some very, very difficult times. And the member for St. Johns just wants to divide people.

      So I would suggest that I ask the member for Seine River about regula­tions that hamper small busi­ness. Like, how can we help small busi­ness grow? And there are a lot of things–and I will concede that many of these are munici­pal regula­tions. I do believe, however, that the Province has a role.

      The Province of Manitoba, under the leadership of Brian Pallister, signed on to the New West Part­ner­ship, some­thing that Gary Doer and Greg Selinger were not prepared to do for whatever reasons and one would have to ask them why not. But we signed on with the New West Part­ner­ship.

      In fact, we had the least amount of exemptions or carve‑outs of anybody in the New West Part­ner­ship. Fact, when trade negotiations were taking place, long before any of the con­ver­sa­tions taking place today–that Manitoba had the least amount of carve‑outs in the country under the Pallister gov­ern­ment.

      And I would suggest to all provinces that if we want to help local busi­ness, if we want to help shop local, the best place to start is in Canada by tearing down tariffs, by tearing down barriers, by tearing down walls that prohibit us from doing trade across this great country of ours. That's where we should be starting.

      Because of Manitoba having a–I believe, a good story to tell, I believe we have credibility when it comes to tearing down barriers to small busi­ness, to do busi­ness across this country, to shop local, not just within Manitoba, not just within western Canada, but across this country. I would suggest to the gov­ern­ment, sit down with AMM and busi­ness groups, and let's talk about ways that we could enhance doing busi­ness. And there are just fun­da­mentally basic things.

      I happened to be on Henderson Highway, and I don't know if we should single out some businesses, but there's a bakery very close to the MLA for Rossmere, her con­stit­uency office–it might even be the member for River East, I'm not too sure. But anyway, there's a bakery right there and I walked in and had a good chat with them. The problem is with parking.

      So if we want to promote shop local, we should be talking to busi­nesses. How can we help with where customers should park? How can we help them how they can–for instance, we have beautiful summers in Manitoba. Like, just exquisite summers, especially on the weekends or evenings, you sit outside and you have some dinner outside and sit with friends. How can we use our sidewalks? How can we use what we have in the beauty of this great province of ours to–basically, you expand; you can double or triple the size of your busi­ness for those months and it is very helpful for the busi­ness. And it's good for us to get out and support them. But then we also have to deal with the regula­tions that inhibit that.

      I know one juris­dic­tion, on weekends in the evenings, they would shut down streets and–to traffic, and basically, the busi­nesses could put their tables and chairs right into the street and people could walk through and sit on the tables and chairs, order their food, so and so forth.

      There are a lot of things we can do, but we have to have the will to do it. We have to help these small busi­ness owners.

      For instance, I know there's a regula­tion, you're only allowed so and so many seats per bathroom stall. If you exceed that, you have to take tables away. Well, maybe we can make an exemption whereby they can, just for the summer months, exceed that number.

      There are a lot of ways that we could support shop local, whether it's–and it shouldn't just be restricted to food service, but also to retail. And we know that a lot of retails do bring in product from Europe, and we should encourage to do trade. There's–it's a very good thing. But we should be looking at it locally, and how can we help local small busi­nesses bring in product from the world, sell it here, and then we can sell our product to the world.

* (11:40)

      Saskatoon berries and blueberries or–there's all kinds of product that we have here in western Canada. And there were huge barriers set against a saskatoon berry jam in Europe. And those are the kinds of things we should be working on. We should be working with other organi­zations.

      Stop this tearing each other down. I think that's not helpful, what happens in this Chamber. This is serious. We are facing a United States that wants to take all economic op­por­tun­ity and move it to the US and basically they just want our natural resources, water and natural resources, whatever else they can get, do all the manufacturing, and we would just become the drawers of water and hewers of wood. And that is a grim future.

      We have to start producing; we have to start supporting, but it has to be in real terms. Start with regula­tions. Start with talking to our small-busi­ness owners. And that's where we would be best going, not attacking each other, but rather working together.

Introduction of Guests

The Speaker: Just before recog­nizing another member, we have seated in the public gallery, from École Howden, 30 grade 4 students under the dir­ection of Janelle Gagne. This group is located in the con­stit­uency of the hon­our­able member for Southdale (MLA Cable).

* * *

Mrs. Carrie Hiebert (Morden-Winkler): I'm happy to stand up today to support small busi­nesses. I have a history, and I owned a small busi­ness for seven years with my son Colton and he currently is running the busi­ness now as I'm now a newly elected official.

      Sitting in the chair of a small-busi­ness owner is a difficult place to be, a lot of the times, and yet so rewarding. We have to weather many storms as they come and it's im­por­tant for support. It's im­por­tant for us to have support as we support–or, sorry, as we contribute to our economy, support our families and support other families that work for us as well.

      Supporting local busi­ness is essential for fos­tering a strong, vibrant com­mu­nity. When you buy local, you're not just investing in a product or service, you're investing in people around you. And I'd like to focus on people because people are what drive our economy, people are what run our small busi­nesses.

      Local busi­nesses are often owned by individuals who deeply care about the com­mu­nity and provide unique products and reflect local culture and values.

      One of the greatest benefits of shopping locally is economic impact. Money spent locally tends to stay within the com­mu­nity, helping to create jobs, support local workers and fund local projects.

      This results in a more resilient local economy where people are more likely to reinvest in the area. I come from a amazing vibrant com­mu­nity of Morden‑Winkler.

      And we have a very, very strong value system where we give back to the com­mu­nity, and small busi­nesses are one of the biggest com­mu­nity that give to–back to the com­mu­nity and it's an exciting part of our com­mu­nity and im­por­tant for non‑profits as well.

Mr. Diljeet Brar, Acting Speaker, in the Chair

      In addition, local busi­nesses are more likely to offer personalized service where owners and employees know their customers and can provide tailored recom­men­dations.

      For example, in my small busi­ness, we used–we always took the person's name when they would place an order and we would use their names because people need to hear their names, and it makes them feel loved and valued.

      Where owners and employees know their customers and can–they can provide tailored recom­men­dations and services for them. This leads to more meaningful and rewarding shopping ex­per­ience or dining ex­per­ience or whatever it is that they're using that small busi­ness for, whether they need a product or a service.

      Furthermore, buying local reduces your environ­ment footprint, as goods typically don't need to be shipped long distances.

      Ultimately, by supporting a small, local busi­ness, you're contributing to the growth and success of your com­mu­nity while promoting sustainability and fos­tering a more connected society.

      In some of the storms that small busi­nesses have to weather, we went through COVID and we had a–as a small-busi­ness owner, there are a lot of programs put forward. There were some specific programs put forward by the PC gov­ern­ment that did help support small busi­nesses during COVID, and it was a very–it was a benefit to a many–to many.

      But currently, we have the new storm of the tariffs that have been the forefront of the minds of busi­ness–small busi­nesses and local industries. They have a negative impact on Manitoba busi­nesses and industries by increasing costs and limiting competi­tiveness.

      For example, agri­cul­ture. Manitoba's farmers face higher expenses when exporting grains and livestock due to tariffs on their products, making it hard to compete in inter­national markets. We have a lot of small agri­cul­ture busi­nesses; we have small butcher shops, we have a lot of small busi­nesses that really rely on other countries and other areas.

      Similarly, local manufacturers, small manufacturers struggle with rising costs for importing materials and parts, which are essential for production. These higher costs often passed on to the customers, making goods more expensive.

      So we need to do better, we need to provide support for our small busi­nesses and manufacturers in our province, and in our small com­mu­nities.

      Recently, the imposition of tariffs by the Trump administration has created challenges for our local small busi­nesses. But it all–but I just want to say that, by choosing Canadian, we help our busi­nesses thrive in the face of global disruptions and reduce the impact of tariffs on our wallets.

      When we choose Canadian- and Manitoba‑made, we're investing in our own com­mu­nity. Every dollar spent on Canadian products circulates within Canada, and within Manitoba, and within our small com­mu­nity that we spend our dollars, stimulating innovation and fostering growth in industries and small manufac­turers and small busi­nesses across the country and around our province of Manitoba. It helps Canadian workers, Manitoba workers and small busi­nesses that are in small rural com­mu­nities. It helps farmers and manufacturers stay competitive in a challenging global marketplace.

      Moreover, buying Canadian ensures that we're not just avoiding the impacts of tariffs but also supporting higher environ­mental standards. By keeping our locals' products local, it helps us to ensure that purchases align with sus­tain­ability goals that we have in our com­mu­nities and our province. Buying Canadian, we're not just counteracting the negative effects of tariffs; we're also building a more resilient, self‑sufficient economy.

      So let's make the choice to support local busi­nesses, and let's help Manitoba and Canada–Canadian workers, and strengthen our economy in a time when it matters most.

      Interprovincial trading is crucial to strengthening Canada's economy and Manitoba's economy, helping support the small busi­nesses in our com­mu­nities. By reducing barriers to trade between provinces, we can foster greater col­lab­o­ration and allow busi­nesses to access larger, diverse markets.

      This not only increases competitiveness, drives innovation and improving product quality, but it also lowers costs for consumers, and services flow more freely across prov­incial borders. It impacts us greatly when we can get some­thing that we need in our small busi­ness, and we don't have it–access to it anymore.

      When provinces trade more easily, small busi­nesses win. We create more jobs, improve supply chains and boost productivity, while Canadian busi­nesses and Manitoba busi­nesses can benefit from economies of scale while consumers enjoy a wide variety of products, competitive prices.

      Strengthening interprovincial trade also means that regional economies become less vul­ner­able to global disruptions, and that's what we want. We want to support our small busi­nesses and our local economies. As we rely more on each other for essential goods and services, we all win. Small busi­nesses, manufacturers win.

      Diversification is also a key. By encouraging Manitoba industries to expand to new markets across different prov­incial lines, but also in our com­mu­nities as well.

      Supporting industries like agri­cul­ture, manu­facturing, tech­no­lo­gy are all things that we can really, really grow on and elaborate and constantly grow and become new ideas and new ­things that we can do.

* (11:50)

      As we support our small busi­nesses, we need to encourage them to step out. We need to support them in whatever we can, to make sure that they have the access to the things they need and to continually encourage small busi­nesses to keep going, as this is a difficult time.

      A lot of small busi­nesses in my com­mu­nity, they're closed off to a lot of the products and–that they had in the past, and they're looking for new places to find the things that they need. So we need to make sure we are flexible, we're sup­port­ive and we're looking at what they need, as gov­ern­ment.

As legis­lators, we need to put aside our own issues and we need to support our com­mu­nities and our province and our people in our com­mu­nities and our small busi­nesses.

      Thank you.

Mrs. Lauren Stone (Midland): When seeing this reso­lu­tion come forward by the member opposite, it's very telling that they're all talk and not a lot of action. And this is what we've been hearing from small busi­nesses and stake­holders across the province: that they are not getting the support that they need from this NDP gov­ern­ment, especially in uncertain economic times that we are facing, currently.

      Last Thursday, we spent a sig­ni­fi­cant amount of time bringing forward a very meaningful solution to help support and protect small busi­nesses, as well as Manitoba workers, and that was to move forward with the phase‑out of the payroll tax. However, during that time, the members opposite didn't talk about the payroll tax at all.

      They seemed to not have any under­standing that this continues to be the largest tax burden that Manitoba small busi­nesses face. In fact, they regularly put words on the record that it's just large cor­por­ations that benefit from a reduction in payroll tax, without realizing that majority of busi­nesses in Manitoba, over 98 per cent of them, actually employ less than 99 workers. Even in the answer that the member opposite gave when I asked about the phase-out, she was unable to answer this question.

      They simply do not seem to understand what types of burdens that Manitoba busi­nesses face, day in and day out, here in this province.

Similar to my colleague, the MLA for Selkirk, I've worked in busi­ness, I've worked for small busi­ness, I've worked for large busi­ness, I've owned my own busi­ness. I fully understand the impact that high taxes have on busi­nesses. Busi­nesses can only absorb so much.

      In addition, we're expecting these busi­nesses to increase the number of jobs that they employ, to increase wages on workers. But the reality is, is that the NDP isn't doing anything meaningful to actually help these small busi­nesses during difficult times.

      I also find it ironic that this NDP gov­ern­ment is talking about making life more affordable with a cut to the gas tax when, in fact, they increased it to the largest rate in Manitoba history.

And now let's just kind of go through those numbers: a 10 per cent cut; that is 90 cents every time I fill up my car. That is not even a Happy Meal in a given month. That is not saving Manitobans or Manitoba busi­nesses any meaningful dollars, in reality.

      The NDP's actions speak louder than words; or their lack of actions or the actions that they actually are taking are actually having a negative impact on how busi­nesses and small busi­nesses operate. They talk a big game about the economic horse pulling the social cart.

However, what busi­ness is going to come to Manitoba and invest when we have some of the highest taxes on busi­nesses across the country? This is just not realistic. It is just not how busi­nesses operate. They certainly won't be growing under those types of economic con­di­tions, and it's getting worse.

      What we saw last year when the NDP gov­ern­ment brought in BITSA–they didn't even consult with the busi­ness com­mu­nity about what those labour challenges were going to do to those busi­nesses.

Again, I go back to: what busi­ness is going to come in and invest and grow jobs, here in the province, when block after block and red tape after red tape is increasing as a result of this NDP gov­ern­ment? This does not show support for small busi­nesses in Manitoba, what­so­ever. In fact, the policy decisions that they are making is a deterrence for small businesses to continue to operate.

      Now, I look at my own con­stit­uency. The largest town in my con­stit­uency is just over 3,000 people–3,500 people, give or take. My entire towns in my con­stit­uency revolve around small busi­ness.

      The largest busi­ness in my con­stit­uency in terms of em­ploy­ment is just over 500 people. They have to bring individuals and workers in from Winnipeg. They bus them down to Rosenort, that's where they're employed–but that's the largest. The majority of businesses are under 100 workers in a given location.

      The NDP's actions do not match their talk. We see a lot of fluff coming out of the members opposite. They claim to be standing up for busi­nesses, but in reality, when you talk to the busi­ness com­mu­nity, they are not.

      Even the fact that the Minister of Finance (MLA Sala) brought in a deferral on the payroll tax for three months while small busi­nesses actually have to apply to get the 'dereferral,' what small busi­ness is going to take that time for a 90-day deferral when the gov­ern­ment is going to come back and collect that anyway?

      These are fluff policy an­nounce­ments. They're trying to show they're doing some­thing for the com­mu­nity, when, in reality, they're not. And busi­nesses are taking notice that they are not getting the support from this NDP gov­ern­ment that they expect or deserve.

      I want to speak to some­thing that I actually find quite comical, is the Manitoba gov­ern­ment's buy local ad campaign, and it includes spending on social media of American companies.

      And there's actually an article by Steve Lambert, Canadian Press, said the NDP gov­ern­ment said the campaign would be on  digital platforms, billboards and radio, and the Premier (Mr. Kinew) didn't directly answer Wednesday when asked whether some money would go to non‑local media platforms such as Facebook, but yet the next day, ads were popping up   on Facebook and Instagram. One third of $140,000 costs is slated for digital advertising as a result of this buy local campaign.

      This is just–this is ironic, hon­our­able Speaker, and this is exactly what I talk about when actions speak louder than words. So, on one side, we're not getting any meaningful action to actually support small busi­nesses, and on the other hand the action we're getting is not supporting small busi­nesses.

      I haven't seen any local advertising in my local papers, on my local radio. You know, Facebook and Instagram, Mark Zuckerberg collecting paycheques from this NDP gov­ern­ment.

      I also want to speak to what we've seen in the past year, because this does speak to the actions of this NDP gov­ern­ment where they are not supporting Manitobans, and as a result not supporting Manitoba small busi­nesses. They eliminated the school tax rebate for com­mercial busi­nesses and raised property taxes by $148 million in last year's budget.

      I don't know of a single busi­ness owner that would say that that is a sup­port­ive tax measure for their small busi­ness in Winnipeg nor in Manitoba.

      The reality is, is that the decisions that this NDP are making, they're increasing taxes on busi­nesses. Had they actually stuck with the phase‑out that the–of the payroll tax that the former PC gov­ern­ment imple­mented, that would have benefited 2,750 busi­nesses with annual tax savings for those busi­nesses of $35 million starting in 2024, had they continued with that phase‑out.

      They could increase tax–the threshold of the payroll tax. They could decrease the notch number. You know, those were questions I expected to get asked by the members opposite during last week's reso­lu­tion.

      But instead they didn't ask me about the payroll tax at all because they don't understand it, because most of them have never had to pay a payroll tax.

      Companies in my riding are paying upwards of $500 million in payroll taxes this year alone.

      That's $8,000 per week to the NDP coffers, and those individuals are employing under 100 people.

      Like I said, honourable Speaker, actions speak louder than words. The reality is, is that these small busi­nesses cannot absorb more taxes, especially right now, especially in uncertain economic times.

      We hear the NDP, sure, they stand up and they talk about US tariffs. Well, we're also in a trade war with China–we're also in a trade war with China. We are caught in the middle of two trade wars.

      We've also seen the members opposite who have done nothing but criticize Canada as a country over the years–

The Acting Speaker (Diljeet Brar): Order, please.

      When this matter is again before the House, the honourable member will have one minute remaining.

      The hour being 12 p.m., this House is recessed and stands recessed until 1:30 p.m.


 


 

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Tuesday, March 18, 2025

CONTENTS


Vol. 28a

ORDERS OF THE DAY

PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS

Debate on Second Readings–Public Bills

Bill 208–The Manitoba Small Business Month Act (Commemoration of Days, Weeks and Months Act Amended)

Wharton  717

Guenter 718

Balcaen  720

Byram   722

Nesbitt 723

Piwniuk  725

Resolutions

Res. 5–Encouraging Manitobans to Support Local

Cross 727

Questions

Pankratz  729

Perchotte  729

Cross 729

Schuler 730

Hiebert 730

Stone  731

Debate

Perchotte  732

Schuler 733

Hiebert 735

Stone  737